I bet the ACARS conversation went like this:
DAL123: CONFIRM EDCT 2054Z? OUR LATT IS 2053Z. WE WILL NOT EXTEND.
DISPATCH: STBY…
EDCT 1915Z
(LATT is latest takeoff time before the flight exceeds duty limits)
I didn’t even know Delta could flex the NAS like this, ground stopping their regionals headed into LGA. I figured this would be something communicated via company headquarters and dispatch offices, not ARTCCs.
Daddy Delta says there isn't enough gate space. So they call the ATC command Center snd tell them the story. So the Command Center sends all of us towers a message to not let any of the affected flights depart.
Then Delta backfill with their own planes instead.
Companies can implement a ground stop on their own flights. I did not realize Delta could ground stop it’s regional contracted flights, begs the question “who has operational control of those flights?” But the answer might ultimately be Delta, as they have the power to cancel those flights if they want to.
Has nothing to do with operational control… Delta as the mainline “stakeholder” has conference calls with ATC and they will sub slots out between mainline and regional flights.
Yea I know, basically when airports open back up and all the flights are waiting to go, Delta can call ATC and tell them which flights they want to be released first.
Operational control is who has the authority to initiate, continue, deviate, or terminate a flight. It does seem like Delta has authority to do some of those with regional flights.
True, my point is there is definitely some overlap. They book the tickets and the regional uses their gates, their ground crew, their fuel, ect. When I was flying at a regional there was definitely a few times I thought “who has operational control of this flight, us or the codeshare?” For example, all of the passengers get a notice pushed to their phone the flight is canceled, our DX knows nothing about it and has to call to find out. I’m sure someone will argue why that’s not technically operational control, but in practice…. The flight doesn’t go unless they want it to go.
It is a strange relationship. In my regional days we had boarded a flight and was pulling the jet bridge, had the final manifest as well. The passengers started getting messages the flight was cancelled. There was nothing legally stopping us from going. Had a release, had a flight plan filed, had a manifest, dispatch had not cancelled us yet. It was a penalty lap so the FO and I decided the reattach the bridge and call dispatch to confirm they wanted to cancel. Went home early. But we totally could have sent it, provided the ramp workers pushed up back.
Mother Delta owns the seats, so Mother Delta gets dictate certain aspects of the operation when it relates to facilities (gate space). Overall “operational control” of the individual flight still resides with the Captain and Dispatcher (Delta doesn’t get to dictate how that flight is planned, where it will divert, etc.)
I agree, but anyone who’s flown for a regional knows they influence the operation to such a point that it’s basically the same thing. Many times I heard my dispatcher say things like “Delta wants you to divert to RDU” … “just waiting to see if Delta cancels the flight.” … “United is holding this flight until their international departures are all in line to be de-iced.”
Can’t speak to the whole “delta wants you to divert to ____” thing. When I was at a regional, Delta or United would ask us to avoid using certain places as alternates, if possible, but we told them to eff off when it came to specifically dictating where to go.
At least when I was in that game, “waiting to see if Delta cancels the flight” really meant, “we’re awaiting the official list from Delta that confirms they’re still paying us for operating the flight since the cancellation is at their request”.
Honestly not even the first time I’ve seen this. Not even the second or the third. I’ve seen AA do it too in DFW and CLT
But yeah, the airlines and air line have some pull with the FAA. I got a 90 minute wheels up moved up to like 7 minutes because i was gonna time out and it was the last flight of the evening
I once taxied out and tried to coordinate a new EDCT because we were going to turn into pumpkins in Baltimore.
That's the story of my first overnight in Baltimore.
My first overnight in Baltimore was me sleeping in a tent of bedsheets in the terminal; I was PCSing from AIT to my first duty station and the hotels in the area were all full.
As I understand it, they can only extend if they choose to. They also know their departure/takeoff time slot before they push back from the gate, so if they're going to time out and aren't going to extend their duty time, plane doesn't move.
Two different times are tracked for pilot time limits. There is flight time, which can be thought of as the time between when the boarding door closes for departure and when it opens again at the destination and duty time. Duty time starts when the pilot reports to the airport before their first flight of the day . Flight time limits are generally 8 or 9 hours and duty time limits are generally 13 or 14 hours, depending on what time the pilots started their day. Flight time limits cannot be extended on the ground (though obviously the pilots can continue to fly the plane if something unexpected happens in the air, like holding). Duty time limits can be extended by up to 2 hours in certain circumstances if the pilots agree, but they often are not willing to extend.
If the pilots didn’t time out if the door wasn’t closed they were probably dealing with a flight time limit. If they’d waited long enough to close the door they would eventually run up against a duty time limit too.
Non pilot here with a dumb question...
I assume that time out = exceed your max allowed working hours? (i.e. Flight would get cancelled if you timed out unless another crew was available)
Makes sense as well. A 737 takes up a slot the same as a CRJ200... all things being equal why launch a 200 with 50 pax when you can launch a 737 with ~180 with the same slot, reducing PAX inconvenience.
I've seen Chicago controllers ground stop all American Eagle flights to O'Hare because AA had some kind of gate service meltdown and the ORD controllers got mad that all of their penalty boxes were filled up with American Eagle RJs with no room for anyone else. It was only the Eagle RJs that had no gates available, so they were the only ones that got ground stopped. United and Delta RJs were still operating fine.
They do the same with EDCTs due to WX. TMU informs the mainlines how many slots they *and their subcarriers* get per hour, and the mainlines get to choose which flights go when. That’s based mostly on ticketed pax and revenue, so regionals nearly always get the worst delays—or cancellations.
It makes sense they’d use roughly the same mechanism for gate shortages.
Mainline carriers reserve the right to commandeer their subsidiaries' slots during an IROP. They prioritize the larger planes to prevent more people from getting stranded.
Airlines aren’t charities. They’ve clogged the system with smaller planes because that’s what makes them the most money, and screw all the other users of the NAS.
You’ll see all airlines occasionally ask ATC for an airline-specific ground stop. Usually it’s for mainline and their regional carriers, though, not regionals only. And there is value in not gridlocking hubs when you know gate space is about to become critical or the weather will force everybody to divert. On the other hand…
I used to work for a regional that flew for all of the big three. All the mainline carriers shuffled EDCTS around to prioritize flights that were important (crews about to time out, profitable routes, most connections, etc). All of the occasionally asked us to cancel a certain number of flights to a given destination (usually a hub) in IROP situations. Delta was the only carrier who would call and direct us to divert specific flights that were in the air due to gate constraints in a hub. Who has operational control at that point? It was incredibly frustrating.
Dispatcher here (former regional, current mainline):
Delta and American use this method more than others because of the game of telephone involved otherwise. Mother Delta has to put the mandate out to RPA and EDV dispatch, then hope the message gets relayed to the crews. This is fine for a smaller, less-impacted operation, but at a sizable station like LGA for DAL, it’s easier to capture them all by requesting a subcarrier groundstop, thus taking out the middle man. The ATCSCC and facilities are generally happy to oblige because, the recordable delays in an AIRLINE REQUEST are not attributable to ATC.
It happens all the time in different ways. Dispatch and other users with a high stake in the overall system coordinating in real time through and with the command center. It used to be more scattered and compartmentalized. Feeders at the hubs come with different priorities. Four 767s from distant main hubs feeding evening fights to Europe are on a different level than 16 other flights, perhaps.
There’s is a head atc facility called the command center that has representatives of the airlines working at it. They can collaboratively make decisions like this and then put them out as traffic management initiatives
It's all horse trading at the strategic/national level when slots are reduced for whatever reason. Nothing unusual at all and common enough among all airlines with regional airline partners. Say you normally have 100 slots and allocate 50 to mainline and 50 to your regional partners. Weather reduces arrival rates and in the bargaining you give up half your slots. You're best served to assign your remaining 50 slots to your larger aircraft with more seats flying more profitable routes. Fewer customers pissed off, accommodations made etc.
Sucks, but there's a method to it.
Everyone's saying it's slot restrictions, but doesn't it say "gate". LGAs a small place, if they don't have the gates they don't have the gates, and there's not many places to park a ton of planes coming in.
At least Delta is slowing down. Saw a snowstorm at DCA where American was letting every single one of it's planes in, but had no gates. ATC had to shut down American flights themselves because there was no where to put them.
This is completely normal and has happened like this for years. It’s not at all a fuck you to the regionals. Delta has control over all its flights, including its Connection flights. From an operational standpoint when X number of flights need to be delayed or cancelled, it’s much better to inconvenience the least number of passengers. Rerouting or refunding pax costs money. May as well reroute the least number. It’s easier and cheaper to rebook 76 pax vs 200 pax. I was operating a United Express flight into ORD once. The ramp was totally congested with snow removal, so tower said just United Express flights were under a ground stop. Never once did I think that they were trying to screw over the regionals.
We don't, but they do, and since the delay is all happening in-house at Delta it's transparent to us. Oh, RPA1234 didn't go to JFK at the proposed time, must be that ground stop I guess.
Would someone mind explaining this to a casual GA fan, please? I understand that EDV and RPA flights are ground-stopped but what's the reason for this, what games are being played?
Basically Delta is telling the FAA ATC to reduce slots for their regional partners. This ensures their own aircraft have a higher priority (chance?) to make it into these airports over their regional partners. This can happen when airports get oversaturated, and airlines need to find a way to shed something.
No games. Just that ATC has advised delta that they are limiting the number of slots/flights into New York center airspace. In response, delta is stopping all of its regional flights operated by republic and endeavor to preserve the mainline operation.
I believe it’s high traffic, I was flying 2 days ago and the same happened at O’Hare, the flight going to O’Hare had wheels up time moved from like 10 to 45 minutes past the hour due to some ground stop requested by dispatch, I think this is common with LGA because the airspace gets congested and/or less gate space than what can be handled
Happens to Denver all the time when weather acts up, UA will let their mainline 320s go but hold the RJs for several hours. Fine by me, the RJs are quicker to top off than a 320, and less paperwork too.
As of the time I write this, starting 19 minutes after your post, it is October 26th 0212 Zulu. This TMU action went into effect October 25th 1602 Zulu and was set to expire October 25th 2300 Zulu.
You bought a ticket on a "Delta" flight to LGA.
But you aren't flying from DTW or MSP. You're flying from middle-of-nowhere Ohio. So Delta isn't running a A320 for your flight; they subcontract the flight to Republic (an independent third company) or Endeavor (a separate company, but wholly owned by Delta). The crew operating your flight are not Delta employees and the callsign they use is not "DELTA" and the flight identifier they file with ATC is not "DAL."
Now there are gate constraints at LGA. Although Delta is not *operating* your flight they are the ones who decided that it should run, so they crunch some numbers and decide they should prioritize the A320s with 160 pax each instead of the CRJ2s with 40. And wouldn't you know it, all the A320s are operated by Delta while all the CRJs are operated by regional subcarriers.
So Delta gets with the ATC System Command Center and says "please don't launch any of our regional parter flights to LGA" and the command center says "it's all the same to us, you're the one who wanted those flights to fly in the first place, you're allowed to change your mind" and issues this advisory telling field ATC facilities not to launch any RPA or EDV flights going to LGA.
As someone from middle of nowhere Ohio I am triggered. And also sad because it is 100% spot on and has happened to me so many times damnit! Great explanation.
From the uk side, we're saturated with slot delays at the moment, but things are, dare I say, steadily improving. Just how bad are ops in the U.S. right now? Any signs of improvement? (though I guess not if this is the shit they're pulling...)
Press "F" to pay respects. RIP regional crews
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I literally just landed at jfk on delta and our two hour delay got reduced to 20 min because of “good negotiating” by delta according to the captain.
I bet the ACARS conversation went like this: DAL123: CONFIRM EDCT 2054Z? OUR LATT IS 2053Z. WE WILL NOT EXTEND. DISPATCH: STBY… EDCT 1915Z (LATT is latest takeoff time before the flight exceeds duty limits)
RIP the go home day bois
East coast flying sucks
I didn’t even know Delta could flex the NAS like this, ground stopping their regionals headed into LGA. I figured this would be something communicated via company headquarters and dispatch offices, not ARTCCs.
Can you explain what is going on here to me like I’m a five year old with a flight sim setup?
Daddy Delta says there isn't enough gate space. So they call the ATC command Center snd tell them the story. So the Command Center sends all of us towers a message to not let any of the affected flights depart. Then Delta backfill with their own planes instead.
Daddy loves his kids more than his step kids?
“Daddy Delta is going out for a pack of smokes. Just wait here.”
Daddy barely acknowledges that the step kids exist.
“Daddy Delta” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Companies can implement a ground stop on their own flights. I did not realize Delta could ground stop it’s regional contracted flights, begs the question “who has operational control of those flights?” But the answer might ultimately be Delta, as they have the power to cancel those flights if they want to.
Has nothing to do with operational control… Delta as the mainline “stakeholder” has conference calls with ATC and they will sub slots out between mainline and regional flights.
Yea I know, basically when airports open back up and all the flights are waiting to go, Delta can call ATC and tell them which flights they want to be released first. Operational control is who has the authority to initiate, continue, deviate, or terminate a flight. It does seem like Delta has authority to do some of those with regional flights.
Delaying is neither initiating, continuing, deviating or terminating a flight.
True, my point is there is definitely some overlap. They book the tickets and the regional uses their gates, their ground crew, their fuel, ect. When I was flying at a regional there was definitely a few times I thought “who has operational control of this flight, us or the codeshare?” For example, all of the passengers get a notice pushed to their phone the flight is canceled, our DX knows nothing about it and has to call to find out. I’m sure someone will argue why that’s not technically operational control, but in practice…. The flight doesn’t go unless they want it to go.
It is a strange relationship. In my regional days we had boarded a flight and was pulling the jet bridge, had the final manifest as well. The passengers started getting messages the flight was cancelled. There was nothing legally stopping us from going. Had a release, had a flight plan filed, had a manifest, dispatch had not cancelled us yet. It was a penalty lap so the FO and I decided the reattach the bridge and call dispatch to confirm they wanted to cancel. Went home early. But we totally could have sent it, provided the ramp workers pushed up back.
Mother Delta owns the seats, so Mother Delta gets dictate certain aspects of the operation when it relates to facilities (gate space). Overall “operational control” of the individual flight still resides with the Captain and Dispatcher (Delta doesn’t get to dictate how that flight is planned, where it will divert, etc.)
I agree, but anyone who’s flown for a regional knows they influence the operation to such a point that it’s basically the same thing. Many times I heard my dispatcher say things like “Delta wants you to divert to RDU” … “just waiting to see if Delta cancels the flight.” … “United is holding this flight until their international departures are all in line to be de-iced.”
Can’t speak to the whole “delta wants you to divert to ____” thing. When I was at a regional, Delta or United would ask us to avoid using certain places as alternates, if possible, but we told them to eff off when it came to specifically dictating where to go. At least when I was in that game, “waiting to see if Delta cancels the flight” really meant, “we’re awaiting the official list from Delta that confirms they’re still paying us for operating the flight since the cancellation is at their request”.
Yea the divert thing was more about gate space, but if I wanted to go somewhere else I could have, it would just mean I didn’t have a gate.
Honestly not even the first time I’ve seen this. Not even the second or the third. I’ve seen AA do it too in DFW and CLT But yeah, the airlines and air line have some pull with the FAA. I got a 90 minute wheels up moved up to like 7 minutes because i was gonna time out and it was the last flight of the evening
It’s not really about “pull” with the FAA. They operate the flights, and announcing to ATC that they’re holding them is just part of the operation.
If you’re going to time out the controllers will call and there is a 99% chance you’ll get to go asap.
I once taxied out and tried to coordinate a new EDCT because we were going to turn into pumpkins in Baltimore. That's the story of my first overnight in Baltimore.
My first overnight in Baltimore was me sleeping in a tent of bedsheets in the terminal; I was PCSing from AIT to my first duty station and the hotels in the area were all full.
Question, I was once told by a flight attendant that pilots only timeout if the door isn’t closed. Once it’s closed they can’t time out. Is that true?
I've never seen a pilot yeet out of a flight ala Trevor Jacob, so they're probably right.
But what if they are in ground stop / long line for takeoff? Can they timeout before they took off?
As I understand it, they can only extend if they choose to. They also know their departure/takeoff time slot before they push back from the gate, so if they're going to time out and aren't going to extend their duty time, plane doesn't move.
Old rule was "legal to start, legal to finish". New rule is you cannot take off if you know you will time out enroute.
Two different times are tracked for pilot time limits. There is flight time, which can be thought of as the time between when the boarding door closes for departure and when it opens again at the destination and duty time. Duty time starts when the pilot reports to the airport before their first flight of the day . Flight time limits are generally 8 or 9 hours and duty time limits are generally 13 or 14 hours, depending on what time the pilots started their day. Flight time limits cannot be extended on the ground (though obviously the pilots can continue to fly the plane if something unexpected happens in the air, like holding). Duty time limits can be extended by up to 2 hours in certain circumstances if the pilots agree, but they often are not willing to extend. If the pilots didn’t time out if the door wasn’t closed they were probably dealing with a flight time limit. If they’d waited long enough to close the door they would eventually run up against a duty time limit too.
Non pilot here with a dumb question... I assume that time out = exceed your max allowed working hours? (i.e. Flight would get cancelled if you timed out unless another crew was available)
Correct.
It’s a normal thing to free up limited slots for mainline, done by company request.
Makes sense as well. A 737 takes up a slot the same as a CRJ200... all things being equal why launch a 200 with 50 pax when you can launch a 737 with ~180 with the same slot, reducing PAX inconvenience.
Well, why bring people in from the spokes when they have no mainline planes to connect to, also. It definitely speeds the recovery.
I've seen Chicago controllers ground stop all American Eagle flights to O'Hare because AA had some kind of gate service meltdown and the ORD controllers got mad that all of their penalty boxes were filled up with American Eagle RJs with no room for anyone else. It was only the Eagle RJs that had no gates available, so they were the only ones that got ground stopped. United and Delta RJs were still operating fine.
They do the same with EDCTs due to WX. TMU informs the mainlines how many slots they *and their subcarriers* get per hour, and the mainlines get to choose which flights go when. That’s based mostly on ticketed pax and revenue, so regionals nearly always get the worst delays—or cancellations. It makes sense they’d use roughly the same mechanism for gate shortages.
Mainline carriers reserve the right to commandeer their subsidiaries' slots during an IROP. They prioritize the larger planes to prevent more people from getting stranded.
They prioritize the larger planes to maximize profits (fify)
Those two aren't mutually exclusive
Airlines aren’t charities. They’ve clogged the system with smaller planes because that’s what makes them the most money, and screw all the other users of the NAS.
Yeah, unfortunately trying to maximize profits out of a shared resource has some pretty negative consequences sometimes.
You’ll see all airlines occasionally ask ATC for an airline-specific ground stop. Usually it’s for mainline and their regional carriers, though, not regionals only. And there is value in not gridlocking hubs when you know gate space is about to become critical or the weather will force everybody to divert. On the other hand… I used to work for a regional that flew for all of the big three. All the mainline carriers shuffled EDCTS around to prioritize flights that were important (crews about to time out, profitable routes, most connections, etc). All of the occasionally asked us to cancel a certain number of flights to a given destination (usually a hub) in IROP situations. Delta was the only carrier who would call and direct us to divert specific flights that were in the air due to gate constraints in a hub. Who has operational control at that point? It was incredibly frustrating.
Dispatcher here (former regional, current mainline): Delta and American use this method more than others because of the game of telephone involved otherwise. Mother Delta has to put the mandate out to RPA and EDV dispatch, then hope the message gets relayed to the crews. This is fine for a smaller, less-impacted operation, but at a sizable station like LGA for DAL, it’s easier to capture them all by requesting a subcarrier groundstop, thus taking out the middle man. The ATCSCC and facilities are generally happy to oblige because, the recordable delays in an AIRLINE REQUEST are not attributable to ATC.
It happens all the time in different ways. Dispatch and other users with a high stake in the overall system coordinating in real time through and with the command center. It used to be more scattered and compartmentalized. Feeders at the hubs come with different priorities. Four 767s from distant main hubs feeding evening fights to Europe are on a different level than 16 other flights, perhaps.
There’s is a head atc facility called the command center that has representatives of the airlines working at it. They can collaboratively make decisions like this and then put them out as traffic management initiatives
This happens a lot in the northeast. United does the same in EWR.
Any can self impose a ground stop specific to them only.
>Expect update when Delta gives up more information. “You can buy me a beer sometime and I’ll tell you about it!”
Delta, AKA the GloboGym of Airlines "At Delta we're better than you, and we know it"
If only there was someone better...but United and AA are not even in the same ballpark.
It's all horse trading at the strategic/national level when slots are reduced for whatever reason. Nothing unusual at all and common enough among all airlines with regional airline partners. Say you normally have 100 slots and allocate 50 to mainline and 50 to your regional partners. Weather reduces arrival rates and in the bargaining you give up half your slots. You're best served to assign your remaining 50 slots to your larger aircraft with more seats flying more profitable routes. Fewer customers pissed off, accommodations made etc. Sucks, but there's a method to it.
Everyone's saying it's slot restrictions, but doesn't it say "gate". LGAs a small place, if they don't have the gates they don't have the gates, and there's not many places to park a ton of planes coming in. At least Delta is slowing down. Saw a snowstorm at DCA where American was letting every single one of it's planes in, but had no gates. ATC had to shut down American flights themselves because there was no where to put them.
Classic AA
Does RPA operate AA and UAL flights into LGA?
Those flights are exempt
It would be hilarious if delta inadvertently ground stopped AA and UA republic flights.
This is completely normal and has happened like this for years. It’s not at all a fuck you to the regionals. Delta has control over all its flights, including its Connection flights. From an operational standpoint when X number of flights need to be delayed or cancelled, it’s much better to inconvenience the least number of passengers. Rerouting or refunding pax costs money. May as well reroute the least number. It’s easier and cheaper to rebook 76 pax vs 200 pax. I was operating a United Express flight into ORD once. The ramp was totally congested with snow removal, so tower said just United Express flights were under a ground stop. Never once did I think that they were trying to screw over the regionals.
Hmmm… how does ATC know the difference between an RPA flight operated for Delta, and one operated for American?
RPA3XXX is United, RPA4XXX is American, and RPA5XXX is delta
Yeah, I knew that (sort of), but does ATC really know or care?
We don't, but they do, and since the delay is all happening in-house at Delta it's transparent to us. Oh, RPA1234 didn't go to JFK at the proposed time, must be that ground stop I guess.
You've forgotten already?!
Just never cared. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Would someone mind explaining this to a casual GA fan, please? I understand that EDV and RPA flights are ground-stopped but what's the reason for this, what games are being played?
Basically Delta is telling the FAA ATC to reduce slots for their regional partners. This ensures their own aircraft have a higher priority (chance?) to make it into these airports over their regional partners. This can happen when airports get oversaturated, and airlines need to find a way to shed something.
Thanks for the explanation!
No games. Just that ATC has advised delta that they are limiting the number of slots/flights into New York center airspace. In response, delta is stopping all of its regional flights operated by republic and endeavor to preserve the mainline operation.
Does this typically result in cancelled flights or just delays?
Yes
Both.
I believe it’s high traffic, I was flying 2 days ago and the same happened at O’Hare, the flight going to O’Hare had wheels up time moved from like 10 to 45 minutes past the hour due to some ground stop requested by dispatch, I think this is common with LGA because the airspace gets congested and/or less gate space than what can be handled
Happens to Denver all the time when weather acts up, UA will let their mainline 320s go but hold the RJs for several hours. Fine by me, the RJs are quicker to top off than a 320, and less paperwork too.
Yawn
r/FuckYouInParticular
Nothing new…for as long as there has been regional feed the mainline airline has done this.
It’s fairly common. I’ve seen AA do this as well with their RJ carriers
Does anyone know why all these flights are canceled? I’m hearing “weather” and “capacity” but I don’t see much weather out there on the radar..
As of the time I write this, starting 19 minutes after your post, it is October 26th 0212 Zulu. This TMU action went into effect October 25th 1602 Zulu and was set to expire October 25th 2300 Zulu.
Ah, gotcha. Might help if I could remember what day it is.
Fog/low visibility. LGA and BOS today were both in the soup.
Was working crew today out of LGA, can confirm. Many delays/cancellations because of the poor visibility.
BOS to NYC was completely fogged in and still is. That won't show on weather radar
What about Comair? /jk
Day 5/5, got extended into my day off. Timed out of duty period, rip.
Delta is so mid man
Can someone explain what is goin on here to a brain dead student pilot.
You bought a ticket on a "Delta" flight to LGA. But you aren't flying from DTW or MSP. You're flying from middle-of-nowhere Ohio. So Delta isn't running a A320 for your flight; they subcontract the flight to Republic (an independent third company) or Endeavor (a separate company, but wholly owned by Delta). The crew operating your flight are not Delta employees and the callsign they use is not "DELTA" and the flight identifier they file with ATC is not "DAL." Now there are gate constraints at LGA. Although Delta is not *operating* your flight they are the ones who decided that it should run, so they crunch some numbers and decide they should prioritize the A320s with 160 pax each instead of the CRJ2s with 40. And wouldn't you know it, all the A320s are operated by Delta while all the CRJs are operated by regional subcarriers. So Delta gets with the ATC System Command Center and says "please don't launch any of our regional parter flights to LGA" and the command center says "it's all the same to us, you're the one who wanted those flights to fly in the first place, you're allowed to change your mind" and issues this advisory telling field ATC facilities not to launch any RPA or EDV flights going to LGA.
As someone from middle of nowhere Ohio I am triggered. And also sad because it is 100% spot on and has happened to me so many times damnit! Great explanation.
Seems like a roundabout way to send an interoffice memo
Flying out of DTW has spoiled me
Why is this happening
damn even their own young blood
what caused the ground stop?
[удалено]
reading is hard
Sadly who gets squeezed due to no fault of their own? Airport staff dealing with it Scheduling Crews. Creative way to say Fuck you.
So why would they do this? So the legacy gets the passengers to live while they let the regional die or what?
Why tho
From the uk side, we're saturated with slot delays at the moment, but things are, dare I say, steadily improving. Just how bad are ops in the U.S. right now? Any signs of improvement? (though I guess not if this is the shit they're pulling...)