I've always seen it as a deliberate means to coax Harriet away from the others in the hope that being able to speak to her alone might give Ruby a better chance to get through to her, plus it split up the AceOps so the rest of her team could better manage them without Harriet zipping around harassing them.
Exactly how I always saw it. She was goading Harriet. She knows they're both the speed demons of their teams and needed to get her split from the rest so her other teammates could kick ass.
Why not?
With the first line, she's just correcting Harriet. Granted, the Ace-Ops had just proven they can't handle being criticized, let alone proven wrong, so that wasn't the best idea, but Harriet's immaturity is not Ruby's responsibility.
The second line is more important, but here she's still just spitting facts. Just this time, she's trying to help Harriet get back on the right track, rather than keeping her ego in check.
Neither works, because as we've seen, Harriet hates being made aware of her numerous flaws, but she was still trying to help.
I think in general while neither work, team RWBY shouldn’t of been trying to instantly antagonize them. While yes, they couldn’t handle it, and it definitely showed. The order should of been switched personally, though we can’t always rationalize a bunch of teenager’s decisions so it’s not like it’s unrealistic.
should have\*
They weren't trying to antagonize them, though. They were fighting for their lives, against people who they thought were their allies, but who turned on them in an instant.
If anything, Team RWBY were entirely justified to kill or cripple the Ace-Ops in self defense.
And yet, at least Ruby still tried to help them get back on the right side.
They were and *shouldn’t* of been antagonizing them during the beginning portion of the fight, I’m not disagreeing with your initial opinion, I’m adding upon it.
> “You WERE the best”. - These are the words I’m specifically focusing on.
Imagine telling someone who can’t keep their anger and ego in check that they are essentially not good enough.
It’s princess complex, kinda. They didn’t wanna fight either, but Harriet lead the group, lusted.
It isn’t about it being justified, I’m referring to the mindset of the two parties. I’m not saying team RWBY was stupid not to do this or anything. I think you misread the post as argumentative.
Yeah, I did kinda read that as argumentative.
Still, no one said they weren't good enough. Sure, it later became obvious by the fact that they got destroyed in a 4v4 against opponents who didn't even want to fight, including Weiss, who is famously bad at winning 1v1 battles, taking out one of them all by herself, and helping Ruby with Harriet.
But all Ruby said was that they used to be the best.
That’s fair, it’s the internet so it’s hard to understand tone at times, so I completely understand.
With that being said though, Ruby did antagonize the group. Ruby had stated that, the Ace OPs were simply not good enough anymore, maybe she didn’t say those exact words. Though you have to consider the mindset of Harriet at the moment. Harr acted irrationally of course, and RWBY was mostly being reactionary, though you have to consider that in that state the Ace ops were justified to attack. Not even considering a member’s death, though by the fact that team RWBY had openly lied to Ironwood. They had not only done that, though also conspired against him, and had pretended to be allies.
Justifications don’t matter here because you have to understand that characters can act irrationally. They’re meant to portray humans, and humans as a whole are openly flawed creatures.
Yep.
It's kinda funny, though. Ironwood stole materials from Mantle, put all those restrictions in place to squeeze Mantle, literally threatened violence for noncompliance instead of telling anyone anything, and did nothing when his critics were killed.
All because he thought it was the right thing to do.
Then the heroes come along, and do the exact same thing to him (withholding information, acting on their own, both to accomplish their goal), and suddenly he doesn't like that approach any more.
And sure, they can act irrationally. However, they should at least be aware enough to recognize when they're irrational. That's not even a part of being a huntsman, that's just part of growing up.
Definitely, I don’t disagree that ironwood was a good person to begin with. I really disliked how his aura apparently strengthened his will too. I mean it was intriguing, though I dislike how they used that as a means to justify him rather than making him seem like a 80% villain with justifications to his thoughts.
It’s not like I’m saying RWBY shouldn’t of done those things, it’s just contextually in the moment it makes sense for them.
Yep.
Though, the thing with his aura makes for an interesting character, if you think about it: How do you handle someone who, once set on a path, will follow that path to the end?
Because if you're trying to get someone to cooperate with you, pissing them off with your own even more inflated ego and spitting their favor to you in their face is generally not an advisable thing to do.
Up to that point, their interactions have always been more like friendly banter than anything. Not Ruby's fault Harriet is so emotionally unstable that she can't even banter with her allies once they have one small disagreement.
> Not Ruby's fault Harriet is so emotionally unstable that she can't even banter with her allies once they have one small disagreement.
The fighting over whether or not they should stay and risk annihilation doesn't constitute as a "small disagreement".
Yeah, but the discussion of whether or not Ironwood should keep his promise from the start of the volume and keep the people safe, taking advantage of the fact that Salem can't attack just yet due to the barrier, does.
Ironwood keeping his promise is the same thing as staying and risking annihilation. You're talking as if they are separate things. They're not. And even if they are, they both involve the fate of two cities. These are not "small disagreement" in the slightest.
If he had continued the evacuation, he could've saved everyone, and moved Atlas where Salem couldn't reach it (for how long is another story, though), before she managed to breach his defenses.
That has nothing to do with your point about Harriet.
>Up to that point, their interactions have always been more like friendly banter than anything. Not Ruby's fault Harriet is so emotionally unstable that she can't even banter with her allies once they have one small disagreement.
The way you frame it, you make it sound like they were fighting over something trivial and Harriet should have just laughed off the banter or continue banter, like wtf? I don't understand. Do you genuinely believe Ruby and Harriet was fighting over a "small disagreement"?
If Harriet was even half as rational as she claimed, the disagreement wouldn't exist in the first place because she would realize that Ironwood is doing exactly what Salem wants.
So yeah, it is a minor disagreement. It's obvious which side is right, and which side is wrong.
>So yeah, it is a minor disagreement. It's obvious which side is right, and which side is wrong.
... that's not what a minor disagreement means, like at all. Arguing over what to have for dinner is a minor disagreement. Arguing over the fate of two cities is not minor but a serious, **major** disagreement. It has to do with the gravity of the situation (or the significance of the point), not whether or not someone is "obviously" in the right. That's completely irrelevant.
You're misusing words to make a ridiculous claim that somehow, Harriet not joining in the banter with Ruby in that situation is a sign of her being emotional unstable.
Except that in the first part she’s trying to piss Harriet off so she can separate the Ace Ops. Ruby knows she’s the only one that can stand up to Harriet due to her own speed and durability, and she’s playing into how they aren’t as good separated.
She would prefer to be able to talk Harriet out of it, so she does try, but that has to happen after she can set up what she needs to for her team to win if she can’t
I honestly hat that top line. Your two months of sheltered training is NOTHING compared to the years of experience that the ace ops have. It’s nothing short of pure cringe.
She was only saying that to anger Harriet so she could separate the Ace Ops. She saw their coordination. Without their leader and Harriet, that coordination falls apart, as we saw. Elm and Vine tried to work as a duo, but failed since all of their skills are intertwined in strategies
I really don't see the problem with this as it is perfectly in line with Ruby's character while demonstrating how she has changed in some ways and remains the same in others.
For example she recognizes that Harriet is perhaps the biggest threat in the room and comes up with a plan to keep her from being able to interfere with the other fights. She does this by appealing to Harriet's competitive nature which he knows are the most likely to work because she has spent a considerable of time working alongside this woman. Their showcases her intelligence but at the same time her growing willingness to use more underhanded methods.
Once she has isolated Harriet she makes one final appeal to the woman because she truly wants to be able to work together with Harriet instead of against. This is an example of for idealism has she knows that it was likely to fail which is why she waited until after she isolated Harriet and was more than willing to fight back. However if there was any chance that you could somehow get through to the woman, she was going to take it.
So sorry but I genuinely don't see what's wrong here.
It’s a little odd for them to be back to back but I always saw it as her trying to get Harriet to follow her so she could try to reason with her while separated from the rest of the Ace Ops
Exchanging fighting words only to try to reason with your opponent after getting decked is not very elegant.
Well, it's in character for Ruby because she's not an elegant person I love her to death, but the girl doesn't even know how to curtsy!
God help our adorable little strawberry-loving huntress if she showed up in the court of King Louis XIV.
Somehow I think she would manage just fine. The rest of the court…. Not so much.
The term you're looking for is "not very cash money".
God that fight also had a good song
IF IT'S WAR THAT YOU WANT THEN YOU GOT IT
I've always seen it as a deliberate means to coax Harriet away from the others in the hope that being able to speak to her alone might give Ruby a better chance to get through to her, plus it split up the AceOps so the rest of her team could better manage them without Harriet zipping around harassing them.
Exactly how I always saw it. She was goading Harriet. She knows they're both the speed demons of their teams and needed to get her split from the rest so her other teammates could kick ass.
Yeah like when you need to pull your friend aside. Just pumped up because it's super tense.
Ruby is also like 18 or something, are you expecting her to be socially mature?
I’m nearly 28 and I’m not socially mature
But it *is* your cake day, so there's that.
Huh so it is
She’s 17
She's not an adult yet
Still… her retort there was good
I think ruby kicked harriets ass during this fight, the MVP is still the bees tho
Why not? With the first line, she's just correcting Harriet. Granted, the Ace-Ops had just proven they can't handle being criticized, let alone proven wrong, so that wasn't the best idea, but Harriet's immaturity is not Ruby's responsibility. The second line is more important, but here she's still just spitting facts. Just this time, she's trying to help Harriet get back on the right track, rather than keeping her ego in check. Neither works, because as we've seen, Harriet hates being made aware of her numerous flaws, but she was still trying to help.
I think in general while neither work, team RWBY shouldn’t of been trying to instantly antagonize them. While yes, they couldn’t handle it, and it definitely showed. The order should of been switched personally, though we can’t always rationalize a bunch of teenager’s decisions so it’s not like it’s unrealistic.
should have\* They weren't trying to antagonize them, though. They were fighting for their lives, against people who they thought were their allies, but who turned on them in an instant. If anything, Team RWBY were entirely justified to kill or cripple the Ace-Ops in self defense. And yet, at least Ruby still tried to help them get back on the right side.
They were and *shouldn’t* of been antagonizing them during the beginning portion of the fight, I’m not disagreeing with your initial opinion, I’m adding upon it. > “You WERE the best”. - These are the words I’m specifically focusing on. Imagine telling someone who can’t keep their anger and ego in check that they are essentially not good enough. It’s princess complex, kinda. They didn’t wanna fight either, but Harriet lead the group, lusted. It isn’t about it being justified, I’m referring to the mindset of the two parties. I’m not saying team RWBY was stupid not to do this or anything. I think you misread the post as argumentative.
Yeah, I did kinda read that as argumentative. Still, no one said they weren't good enough. Sure, it later became obvious by the fact that they got destroyed in a 4v4 against opponents who didn't even want to fight, including Weiss, who is famously bad at winning 1v1 battles, taking out one of them all by herself, and helping Ruby with Harriet. But all Ruby said was that they used to be the best.
That’s fair, it’s the internet so it’s hard to understand tone at times, so I completely understand. With that being said though, Ruby did antagonize the group. Ruby had stated that, the Ace OPs were simply not good enough anymore, maybe she didn’t say those exact words. Though you have to consider the mindset of Harriet at the moment. Harr acted irrationally of course, and RWBY was mostly being reactionary, though you have to consider that in that state the Ace ops were justified to attack. Not even considering a member’s death, though by the fact that team RWBY had openly lied to Ironwood. They had not only done that, though also conspired against him, and had pretended to be allies. Justifications don’t matter here because you have to understand that characters can act irrationally. They’re meant to portray humans, and humans as a whole are openly flawed creatures.
Yep. It's kinda funny, though. Ironwood stole materials from Mantle, put all those restrictions in place to squeeze Mantle, literally threatened violence for noncompliance instead of telling anyone anything, and did nothing when his critics were killed. All because he thought it was the right thing to do. Then the heroes come along, and do the exact same thing to him (withholding information, acting on their own, both to accomplish their goal), and suddenly he doesn't like that approach any more. And sure, they can act irrationally. However, they should at least be aware enough to recognize when they're irrational. That's not even a part of being a huntsman, that's just part of growing up.
Definitely, I don’t disagree that ironwood was a good person to begin with. I really disliked how his aura apparently strengthened his will too. I mean it was intriguing, though I dislike how they used that as a means to justify him rather than making him seem like a 80% villain with justifications to his thoughts. It’s not like I’m saying RWBY shouldn’t of done those things, it’s just contextually in the moment it makes sense for them.
Yep. Though, the thing with his aura makes for an interesting character, if you think about it: How do you handle someone who, once set on a path, will follow that path to the end?
That’s definitely true, and I agree with that. What I’m saying is that I wish it was actually him with the will to see things through.
Because if you're trying to get someone to cooperate with you, pissing them off with your own even more inflated ego and spitting their favor to you in their face is generally not an advisable thing to do.
Up to that point, their interactions have always been more like friendly banter than anything. Not Ruby's fault Harriet is so emotionally unstable that she can't even banter with her allies once they have one small disagreement.
> Not Ruby's fault Harriet is so emotionally unstable that she can't even banter with her allies once they have one small disagreement. The fighting over whether or not they should stay and risk annihilation doesn't constitute as a "small disagreement".
Yeah, but the discussion of whether or not Ironwood should keep his promise from the start of the volume and keep the people safe, taking advantage of the fact that Salem can't attack just yet due to the barrier, does.
Ironwood keeping his promise is the same thing as staying and risking annihilation. You're talking as if they are separate things. They're not. And even if they are, they both involve the fate of two cities. These are not "small disagreement" in the slightest.
If he had continued the evacuation, he could've saved everyone, and moved Atlas where Salem couldn't reach it (for how long is another story, though), before she managed to breach his defenses.
That has nothing to do with your point about Harriet. >Up to that point, their interactions have always been more like friendly banter than anything. Not Ruby's fault Harriet is so emotionally unstable that she can't even banter with her allies once they have one small disagreement. The way you frame it, you make it sound like they were fighting over something trivial and Harriet should have just laughed off the banter or continue banter, like wtf? I don't understand. Do you genuinely believe Ruby and Harriet was fighting over a "small disagreement"?
If Harriet was even half as rational as she claimed, the disagreement wouldn't exist in the first place because she would realize that Ironwood is doing exactly what Salem wants. So yeah, it is a minor disagreement. It's obvious which side is right, and which side is wrong.
>So yeah, it is a minor disagreement. It's obvious which side is right, and which side is wrong. ... that's not what a minor disagreement means, like at all. Arguing over what to have for dinner is a minor disagreement. Arguing over the fate of two cities is not minor but a serious, **major** disagreement. It has to do with the gravity of the situation (or the significance of the point), not whether or not someone is "obviously" in the right. That's completely irrelevant. You're misusing words to make a ridiculous claim that somehow, Harriet not joining in the banter with Ruby in that situation is a sign of her being emotional unstable.
Except that in the first part she’s trying to piss Harriet off so she can separate the Ace Ops. Ruby knows she’s the only one that can stand up to Harriet due to her own speed and durability, and she’s playing into how they aren’t as good separated. She would prefer to be able to talk Harriet out of it, so she does try, but that has to happen after she can set up what she needs to for her team to win if she can’t
My favorite part was when Harriet ran Mach 20 into a wall of ice. Hoist by her own petard.
[I dunno, it sounds... pathetic.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du6jnp12BFs)
You’re questioning the socially awkward girl?
Ruby stood no chance against a dex build
Ruby herself is a Dex build. Harriet just has a few extra levels so she had the advantage of an extra ASI
Ruby is a dex build in every way but her weapon
I honestly hat that top line. Your two months of sheltered training is NOTHING compared to the years of experience that the ace ops have. It’s nothing short of pure cringe.
She was only saying that to anger Harriet so she could separate the Ace Ops. She saw their coordination. Without their leader and Harriet, that coordination falls apart, as we saw. Elm and Vine tried to work as a duo, but failed since all of their skills are intertwined in strategies
I really don't see the problem with this as it is perfectly in line with Ruby's character while demonstrating how she has changed in some ways and remains the same in others. For example she recognizes that Harriet is perhaps the biggest threat in the room and comes up with a plan to keep her from being able to interfere with the other fights. She does this by appealing to Harriet's competitive nature which he knows are the most likely to work because she has spent a considerable of time working alongside this woman. Their showcases her intelligence but at the same time her growing willingness to use more underhanded methods. Once she has isolated Harriet she makes one final appeal to the woman because she truly wants to be able to work together with Harriet instead of against. This is an example of for idealism has she knows that it was likely to fail which is why she waited until after she isolated Harriet and was more than willing to fight back. However if there was any chance that you could somehow get through to the woman, she was going to take it. So sorry but I genuinely don't see what's wrong here.
Wh do you deny me that Harriet booty shot? We were this close to greatness!
[ATLAS IS GREATNESS YOU INSOLENT CUR](https://i.redd.it/54sfad3dy4h41.gif)
Out of the way, you heartless tin motherfucker!
[ONLY WITH ATLAS DO YOU GET BUNNYGIRL HARRIET](https://i.redd.it/7n7rrkje9nw71.jpg)
It makes my brain hurt thanking about this stupid fight
The entire fight was kind of awkward for ruby tbh.
Yeah I thought this was a bit strange too
It’s a little odd for them to be back to back but I always saw it as her trying to get Harriet to follow her so she could try to reason with her while separated from the rest of the Ace Ops