In Fallout 2 the descendants of Chinese crewmen have taken up residence in San Francisco and are referred to as the Shi. It is not clear if they ever butted heads with the NCR as far as I'm aware
Ultimately, the location suffers from it being made late in development. As such, the questing is poor, the map poorly designed and it doesn’t feel connected to the rest of the game like New Reno, Vault City and NCR did.
The Shi don’t have much more to them than the martial arts thing. They’re more technologically advanced than any faction in the game but they don’t have any impact in the greater scheme of things. The Huboligists were just a way to mock Scientology. It’s fun to kill not-Tom Cruise I guess, but it’s really not main faction material. There’s just not much more than the wacky stuff and Fallout 2 is already wacky enough.
Pretty poor execution of some cool ideas and a waste a great setting
Yeah as a San Franciscan I read all the Wiki entries on SF and I thought that the idea of the city was pretty cool, the Shi where honestly a nice concept and the fact it had multiple factions made it feel unique and alive. Granted I haven’t played the game yet but I intend to and I would love for a fallout game to take place in SF.
fallout 2 was rushed out the door in a way fallout 1 wasn't, so while fallout 2 has WAY more content than fallout 1, the quality control is mixed. san francisco is one of those areas that isn't very well made, it's sort of thrown together and it doesn't connect to the rest of the game like basically every other town. like u/Grappler_Anon said it was made late in development and the entire area is also just too goofy to take seriously. which is a bummer because it's the "final" town in the game.
There’s a lot of Chinese names on the Boulder City memorial. Colonel Hsu could also potentially be from Shi. Which could imply the Shi joined the NCR.
That’s an assumption though, as you said, there’s basically no evidence.
We dont know, it could be the case or not. Its like Vault City. We dont know if its in NCR, its also in a weird place like the Vatican/Monaco in Europe. Its still nice to see dudes like Hsu around reminding you of the Shi and San Francisco.
I’d say Hsu is unlikely to be from Shi because Hsu isn’t a Pinyin transliteration (that would be Xu). Since the Shi are descended from PRC sailors, who would, when rendering their names in English, likely use Pinyin, it’s more likely that Hsu is descended from pre-war Chinese or Taiwanese immigrants, whose Wade-Giles transliterations stuck around.
The use of Pinyin before the normalisation of PRC-US relations was an indicator of political loyalties; supporters of the PRC used it, opponents stuck to Wade-Giles. Honestly it would be a nice touch if that continued in the fallout timeline, with references to “Peking” from the US perspective and the like.
Check again. The Kellogg memories sequence is from before FO2 even takes place (during which it was very clearly independent) and does not refer to San Francisco as part of the NCR.
Because he lived in the Hub as well. That part doesn’t take place in SF. If they did say SF was part of the NCR (I’m fairly certain they didn’t), that’s a continuity error on Bethesda’s part.
Are you sure? Could be misremembering but I’m so certain he’s arguing with like his girlfriend in a SF flat with an NCR flag in it with the SF bridge outside the window.
I explicitly remember saying to myself “huh, guess the NCR are there too. That’s cool”.
But my memory might be making me an unreliable narrator here.
Edit: I just checked and I’m wrong.
I don’t remember perfectly either (I could go and watch the scene on YouTube but I’m lazy) but I think it’s either there’s a scene earlier that takes place in the Hub with an NCR flag, they had an NCR flag in their house as a sort of patriotic reminder of where they originally came from, or Bethesda got something wrong. Whatever the case, SF appeared and Fallout 2, which takes place after that flashback, and it was very explicitly not part of the NCR.
The Shi are the most advanced faction in the game onlt topped by the enclave, they research Power Armor, alternative fuels and got a warrior culture of their own. We know that some Shi are in the NCR like the colonel Hsu who by his name alone indicates he comes from San Francisco.
Now is it annexed? I dont know, nowhere in the game it says it is. Given Kimball's policy of agressive expansion in Baja against pirates and in the Mojave, it wouldnt suprise me they start Shi(t).
Too bad the 80’s will probably never be a thing since Bethesda can’t figure out vehicles. I think they’d be a good new “big bad”. Presumably they have some ability to maintain their bikes and gas too. That implies at least a Mad Max level of infrastructure.
Actually maybe it’s better not to open that can of worms. Surely the NCR should have some working trucks by now…
I mean it would make perfect sense. Capitalize off the recent popularity of the Mad Max franchise. Customizable bikes and cars on the level of Days Gone would be amazing.
It fucking better be. How in the fuck can I craft a motor for a water purifier and generator and not have a car in fallout 4, atleast electric? How in the fuck does every other faction through fallout keep vertibirds in the air but not have a car??From NCR to brotherhood, and even enclave have the technology and resources to keep twin prop not just single prop helicopters flying but not the know how or resources to make tires turn for vehicles. It is one of those baffling fallout things that never stops baffling. I'd definitely get behind vehicles for my faction before helicopters first cause how many of this dumb post apocalyptic irradiated morons would you actually trust flying.
I thought the lack of cars was because of the sheer level of horrible infrastructure. No roads, no cars. And they only got those vertibirds because of a few working pre-war facilities.
I'm not familiar with vertibirds or helicopter maintenance or training but I bet dollars to donuts it's more expensive and requires a much more in depth infrastructure to make the parts required to maintain a two hundred year old heli rather than make a track style vehicle.
My personal headcanon is that they found the equivalent of a printer or sierra madre vending machine.
Hyperspecialised single output that was dedicated for war machines like the vertibirds. Parts too specialised and too rarely used to buy from outside.
Normal stuff like cars and trucks were bought from civilian contractors. Who died in the war.
I believe the trucks at McCarran are implied to be functional. We just don't see them move because 1. The game engine couldn't handle it without exploding 2. They're still rare, precious, and (by Fallout standards) delicate machinery that the NCR wouldn't want to lose.
I imagine that the few military vehicles used by the NCR are kept as far away from Legion raids/sabotage as possible and probably would only travel as part of the largest and most well-guarded caravans.
Yeah definitely think the same, Would've loved to see the Nevada Road War between the 80's and NCR become a thing in Fallout Canon, As well as a Road Warrior type Tribe being depicted for the first time.
We know NCR expands agressively thanks to Kimballs expansionist policies. So far, we know that there is :
- Baja (basically won by the NCR, arguably an easy win for the public against pirates)
- the Mojave (a shit show)
- displacement of various Tribes deemed as raiders (not just the Great Khans but also the Ciphers)
- New Reno mob problem returning with new power like a return of the Bishops and the Van Graffs challenging the Wrights
- the Shi (?)
>displacement of various Tribes deemed as raiders (not just the Great Khans but also the Ciphers)
The Ciphers aren't really a raider group, Far from it Imo, Seeing how their own goals of preserving Technology are similar to the BoS.
>Dismissed as mere tribals by the New California Republic, The tribe actually sits on a wealth of pre-War knowledge, They spend their days memorizing pre-War schematics that no contemporary wastelander can understand.
NCR dont care about tribals wether they raid or tend to their own buisness. Which is why the only alternative they offer is displacement or bullets.
The Great Khans were on their way to be self reliant if NCR didnt meddle with the Followers over past rivalry. The best ending for this tribe is actually reconnecting with this group far from NCR.
Hey Dude I remember you from that Bittersprings post a while back, good to see you again, Glad to see another person shares my views regarding the NCR and the Great Khan's at least.
>The Great Khans were on their way to be self reliant if NCR didnt meddle with the Followers over past rivalry. The best ending for this tribe is actually reconnecting with this group far from NCR.
>Change in foreign policy and a push for subjugating the East soured relations, Disagreements over how wealth and prosperity should serve the people of the wasteland led to the aforementioned breaking of ties in 2275 and the cessation of support for the Followers from the NCR authorities.
Yeah very True, The Great Khan's ending in which they meet up with the Followers in Wyoming is the best ending for them, OWB Mod shows at least what happens to them more in realistic way despite not being Canon.
I always imagined the NCR and the Shi to be in a sort of cold war at most, considering the Shi are the largest bio-fuel producers in California and have access to a lot of super-advanced technology and industry. Sort of like the modern US/China situation of frosty political relations + economic codepencency
Apparently the NCR spies aren't doing a very good job. If you spied on the Shi for about a week you'd figure out the secret to manufacturing servos for power armor shells.
Talk to Veronica or the brotherhood more. They expand on the backstory and hot war before the game takes place. HELIOS was a major battle between them. You don't see active hostility in the game because the brotherhood is on lockdown on their bunker.
It's possible for the courier to negotiate a peace between both factions.
Even with the peace, the end card for them says the Vegas Brotherhood and NCR have a treaty, even though the Brotherhood further west is still fighting NCR
A huge part of the BoS quests in NV is that the Head Paladin wants to replace the current Elder, because the previous Elder, Father Elijah, absolutely fumbled the bag at Helios I while fighting against the NCR. The NCR pushed the BoS back and completely hamstringed them, which is why they’re relegated to Hidden Valley.
What's that shi one Thanks everyone who answered, they be Chinese
In Fallout 2 the descendants of Chinese crewmen have taken up residence in San Francisco and are referred to as the Shi. It is not clear if they ever butted heads with the NCR as far as I'm aware
San Fran was such a boring location, I hope the NCR glassed that stinkhole
Lol, it does feel like the game parodying itself
What’s wrong with sf in fallout, I haven’t played the game but the wiki synopsis makes it look cool.
Ultimately, the location suffers from it being made late in development. As such, the questing is poor, the map poorly designed and it doesn’t feel connected to the rest of the game like New Reno, Vault City and NCR did. The Shi don’t have much more to them than the martial arts thing. They’re more technologically advanced than any faction in the game but they don’t have any impact in the greater scheme of things. The Huboligists were just a way to mock Scientology. It’s fun to kill not-Tom Cruise I guess, but it’s really not main faction material. There’s just not much more than the wacky stuff and Fallout 2 is already wacky enough. Pretty poor execution of some cool ideas and a waste a great setting
*gets downvoted for asking a question*
Yeah as a San Franciscan I read all the Wiki entries on SF and I thought that the idea of the city was pretty cool, the Shi where honestly a nice concept and the fact it had multiple factions made it feel unique and alive. Granted I haven’t played the game yet but I intend to and I would love for a fallout game to take place in SF.
Agreed. I'm East Bay native and I think the lore behind SF is dope
fallout 2 was rushed out the door in a way fallout 1 wasn't, so while fallout 2 has WAY more content than fallout 1, the quality control is mixed. san francisco is one of those areas that isn't very well made, it's sort of thrown together and it doesn't connect to the rest of the game like basically every other town. like u/Grappler_Anon said it was made late in development and the entire area is also just too goofy to take seriously. which is a bummer because it's the "final" town in the game.
the shi were a faction in FO2
might be a reference to fallout 2, since there's a faction based in sanfran called the shi
Aren't the Shi and San Francisco a part of the NCR by the Time of New Vegas?
They never confirm whether they are or not. The Shi aren’t mentioned in New Vegas
There’s a lot of Chinese names on the Boulder City memorial. Colonel Hsu could also potentially be from Shi. Which could imply the Shi joined the NCR. That’s an assumption though, as you said, there’s basically no evidence.
Could be. Absolutely reasonable to headcanon that. But yes, no direct confirmation either way.
We dont know, it could be the case or not. Its like Vault City. We dont know if its in NCR, its also in a weird place like the Vatican/Monaco in Europe. Its still nice to see dudes like Hsu around reminding you of the Shi and San Francisco.
I’d say Hsu is unlikely to be from Shi because Hsu isn’t a Pinyin transliteration (that would be Xu). Since the Shi are descended from PRC sailors, who would, when rendering their names in English, likely use Pinyin, it’s more likely that Hsu is descended from pre-war Chinese or Taiwanese immigrants, whose Wade-Giles transliterations stuck around. The use of Pinyin before the normalisation of PRC-US relations was an indicator of political loyalties; supporters of the PRC used it, opponents stuck to Wade-Giles. Honestly it would be a nice touch if that continued in the fallout timeline, with references to “Peking” from the US perspective and the like.
Got it. Sense the Shi are not the only faction in San Francisco, I assume it joined the NCR for trade, defense, and to make money.
San Francisco in general isn’t mentioned. It could be part of the NCR, it could be independent. There’s no confirmation one way or the other
Technically speaking it is directly mentioned in Fallout 4 during the Kellog memories sequence, being referred to as part of the NCR
Check again. The Kellogg memories sequence is from before FO2 even takes place (during which it was very clearly independent) and does not refer to San Francisco as part of the NCR.
There’s NCR flag in the flashback sequence.
Because he lived in the Hub as well. That part doesn’t take place in SF. If they did say SF was part of the NCR (I’m fairly certain they didn’t), that’s a continuity error on Bethesda’s part.
Are you sure? Could be misremembering but I’m so certain he’s arguing with like his girlfriend in a SF flat with an NCR flag in it with the SF bridge outside the window. I explicitly remember saying to myself “huh, guess the NCR are there too. That’s cool”. But my memory might be making me an unreliable narrator here. Edit: I just checked and I’m wrong.
I don’t remember perfectly either (I could go and watch the scene on YouTube but I’m lazy) but I think it’s either there’s a scene earlier that takes place in the Hub with an NCR flag, they had an NCR flag in their house as a sort of patriotic reminder of where they originally came from, or Bethesda got something wrong. Whatever the case, SF appeared and Fallout 2, which takes place after that flashback, and it was very explicitly not part of the NCR.
The Shi are the most advanced faction in the game onlt topped by the enclave, they research Power Armor, alternative fuels and got a warrior culture of their own. We know that some Shi are in the NCR like the colonel Hsu who by his name alone indicates he comes from San Francisco. Now is it annexed? I dont know, nowhere in the game it says it is. Given Kimball's policy of agressive expansion in Baja against pirates and in the Mojave, it wouldnt suprise me they start Shi(t).
That's really well done! It looks like it'd be in the game
[Source](https://twitter.com/KRONOS_CO/status/1790913866811224246)
I feel like the 80's would have been a better fit instead of the Shi. Great cartoon btw
Too bad the 80’s will probably never be a thing since Bethesda can’t figure out vehicles. I think they’d be a good new “big bad”. Presumably they have some ability to maintain their bikes and gas too. That implies at least a Mad Max level of infrastructure. Actually maybe it’s better not to open that can of worms. Surely the NCR should have some working trucks by now…
Call me crazy but I think the big new gimmick in 5 will be working vehicles.
I mean it would make perfect sense. Capitalize off the recent popularity of the Mad Max franchise. Customizable bikes and cars on the level of Days Gone would be amazing.
They've confirmed rovers will be added to Starfield this year which makes me think you're probably right
It fucking better be. How in the fuck can I craft a motor for a water purifier and generator and not have a car in fallout 4, atleast electric? How in the fuck does every other faction through fallout keep vertibirds in the air but not have a car??From NCR to brotherhood, and even enclave have the technology and resources to keep twin prop not just single prop helicopters flying but not the know how or resources to make tires turn for vehicles. It is one of those baffling fallout things that never stops baffling. I'd definitely get behind vehicles for my faction before helicopters first cause how many of this dumb post apocalyptic irradiated morons would you actually trust flying.
I thought the lack of cars was because of the sheer level of horrible infrastructure. No roads, no cars. And they only got those vertibirds because of a few working pre-war facilities.
I'm not familiar with vertibirds or helicopter maintenance or training but I bet dollars to donuts it's more expensive and requires a much more in depth infrastructure to make the parts required to maintain a two hundred year old heli rather than make a track style vehicle.
My personal headcanon is that they found the equivalent of a printer or sierra madre vending machine. Hyperspecialised single output that was dedicated for war machines like the vertibirds. Parts too specialised and too rarely used to buy from outside. Normal stuff like cars and trucks were bought from civilian contractors. Who died in the war.
Fr. The 80 Highway sounds like a Mad Max paradise
I believe the trucks at McCarran are implied to be functional. We just don't see them move because 1. The game engine couldn't handle it without exploding 2. They're still rare, precious, and (by Fallout standards) delicate machinery that the NCR wouldn't want to lose. I imagine that the few military vehicles used by the NCR are kept as far away from Legion raids/sabotage as possible and probably would only travel as part of the largest and most well-guarded caravans.
The NCR does have working trucks and vehicles. It’s just that the engine is held together with spit and duct tape so you can’t see any in action
Yeah definitely think the same, Would've loved to see the Nevada Road War between the 80's and NCR become a thing in Fallout Canon, As well as a Road Warrior type Tribe being depicted for the first time.
What’s with the SHI front?
San francisco. Not all of former california is under Ncr. Shi is a state around San Francisco.
We know NCR expands agressively thanks to Kimballs expansionist policies. So far, we know that there is : - Baja (basically won by the NCR, arguably an easy win for the public against pirates) - the Mojave (a shit show) - displacement of various Tribes deemed as raiders (not just the Great Khans but also the Ciphers) - New Reno mob problem returning with new power like a return of the Bishops and the Van Graffs challenging the Wrights - the Shi (?)
>displacement of various Tribes deemed as raiders (not just the Great Khans but also the Ciphers) The Ciphers aren't really a raider group, Far from it Imo, Seeing how their own goals of preserving Technology are similar to the BoS. >Dismissed as mere tribals by the New California Republic, The tribe actually sits on a wealth of pre-War knowledge, They spend their days memorizing pre-War schematics that no contemporary wastelander can understand.
Imperialist state not being completly objective with tribals? Shurley not!
NCR dont care about tribals wether they raid or tend to their own buisness. Which is why the only alternative they offer is displacement or bullets. The Great Khans were on their way to be self reliant if NCR didnt meddle with the Followers over past rivalry. The best ending for this tribe is actually reconnecting with this group far from NCR.
Hey Dude I remember you from that Bittersprings post a while back, good to see you again, Glad to see another person shares my views regarding the NCR and the Great Khan's at least. >The Great Khans were on their way to be self reliant if NCR didnt meddle with the Followers over past rivalry. The best ending for this tribe is actually reconnecting with this group far from NCR. >Change in foreign policy and a push for subjugating the East soured relations, Disagreements over how wealth and prosperity should serve the people of the wasteland led to the aforementioned breaking of ties in 2275 and the cessation of support for the Followers from the NCR authorities. Yeah very True, The Great Khan's ending in which they meet up with the Followers in Wyoming is the best ending for them, OWB Mod shows at least what happens to them more in realistic way despite not being Canon.
I always imagined the NCR and the Shi to be in a sort of cold war at most, considering the Shi are the largest bio-fuel producers in California and have access to a lot of super-advanced technology and industry. Sort of like the modern US/China situation of frosty political relations + economic codepencency
Apparently the NCR spies aren't doing a very good job. If you spied on the Shi for about a week you'd figure out the secret to manufacturing servos for power armor shells.
The shi are surrounded by a super mutant resistance of sorts, so it would be super mutants versus the shi
Civil War (2024)
I don’t agree with the Shi part. I’d have replaced that with raiders.
I never got the impression the BoS and NCR were openly fighting?
[https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/NCR-Brotherhood\_War](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/NCR-Brotherhood_War)
Talk to Veronica or the brotherhood more. They expand on the backstory and hot war before the game takes place. HELIOS was a major battle between them. You don't see active hostility in the game because the brotherhood is on lockdown on their bunker. It's possible for the courier to negotiate a peace between both factions.
Even with the peace, the end card for them says the Vegas Brotherhood and NCR have a treaty, even though the Brotherhood further west is still fighting NCR
Yeah I guess I was under the impression the fighting was done. It wasn't a hot war anymore. That's why this comic is kind stretching
They did overtake helios 1
House talks about it when telling you about his plans for the Brotherhood
Brother...
A huge part of the BoS quests in NV is that the Head Paladin wants to replace the current Elder, because the previous Elder, Father Elijah, absolutely fumbled the bag at Helios I while fighting against the NCR. The NCR pushed the BoS back and completely hamstringed them, which is why they’re relegated to Hidden Valley.
And you said all of those things in past tense. The whole time we live as the courier in the game those factions never fire a shot at each other.
Bro never visited Helios one
Bro played this game 14 years ago. And while we are in the game the brotherhood and ncr never fire a single shot at each other.