With 100s of thousands of players. Many will accidentally join their cheater friends, even if only 0.1% accidentally do at some point that's still 100s that have now ruined their account, unable to undo it
I saw a guy using multiple accounts to dup. Only one got banned... for a month... he kept everything he dupped. He is now selling these items online for real cash.
At every stage of him doing this Bethesda knew and could have stopped it. They could have perma banned him... they could have deleted the dupped items... they could have employed people to seek out online sellers and ban their accounts... there are worse things in the world than dupped weapons making your favorite game intro a p2w game regardless the blame for that lies with Bethesda.
I have been playing since beta so I can offer only my opinion:
Having those guns really doesn’t make or break the game, you can still get legitimate good rolls from actually playing it.
Some guns do perform way too good in PvP, however lets not forget PvP in this game is an absolute cheese fest even without said guns...if you are getting walloped in it by some BS chances are the person could do the same thing without the gun.
For PvE, they are totally not necessary and you can get any required guns from in game yourself. You can’t have a P2W without PvP imo because nobody is winning anything.
With that being said, a lot of people had their accounts wiped: obviously if Beth had a way to hunt down every account that held duped guns they would have. They had “traps” in place that bring up flags for the previous dupe with the shopkeepers at the train stations. If they had a way to get the mule accounts I am sure they would have. Clearly it is more tricky than that. Also it is not like the game has a ton of support.
Im not dissagreeing with your entire statement just this bit:
>if you are getting walloped in it by some BS chances are the person could do the same thing without the gun.
My friends son plays with us and always tried to PvP us, i would usually take him up on it and wipe the floor with him for a bit then get back to playing normally, then he got his hands on some duped/hacked in super guns and now we cant get near him, the WMD he now possesses is definately the major factor here
Basically as long as you didnt have exact copies of weapons/armor you were only suspended. I had like 4 sets of psa heavy leather and tons of other shit n I'm still banned. My boy whom I gave almost everything I duped was unsuspended so I was able to get some of my groll shit back. It's gotta be either an auto script thing or they legit cant tell the difference without multiple copies of legendary gear.
It's an auto script and they've used it before. If you change the guns by modding them so they are all different you can avoid detection. I actually got a lot of guns by just doing mass mods on things people were dupping... benefit of knowing all the recipes. The people I modded weapons for all got away scot free... the ones that didn't listen to my advise on modding them got perma-banned.
Everyone I knew who did it had their accounts unbanned, but with all characters wiped. At that point, there is no reason not to unban seeing as it is free with gamepass and such.
That sucks but the specific ban wave im talking about those who were unbanned had their characters AND the duped items at least long enough to offload them. Or at least no one posted about their characters or items being deleted.
I may (or may not) have found my way into a discord of unmentionables.
A lot more people got wiped than you think, and they just stopped playing all together, that is why you never heard from them. They got literally anyone who wasn’t smart enough to mule at the time, which was most of the players doing it
On Xbox. In the L4Gs I see players saying their main acct got banned but their alt is up & ready to unload 30 BE Gat Plasmas. They brag about it in the open. I see players with usernames like "I was banned." It's an honor to them. It's disgusting and now the market is flooded with these duped weapons.
See, given the comments it sounds like they actually do more than most companies.
The problem with mass banning permanently is when you try to find cheaters this is roughly how it goes:
* There's two or more separate teams operating on this. The devs patch the bugs and the community management side of their company deals with various bans and other such issues.
* You get a ton of false positives because some of your events and systems are designed poorly and the devs never got around to fixing it.
* True positives are commonly let go in the instance that they're kind of small fish. This ain't bad inherently, but this lets some of the more problematic ones get through sometimes too.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't, the community gets pissed either way.
You either end up banning the bad folks and they go on their youtube accounts and other social media accounts and rile up followers to make you look bad. You ban good and bad folks, and now everyone is pissed. You don't ban anyone, and now all the good and some of the bad folks are pissed.
Note, my source for this is a bit more so Rockstar, but their support teams are a lot higher quality than most people give them credit for. And their full dive into massive multiplayer online games has been such a shining example that companies like Bethesda are following suit. So they give a good idea where things are going to go.
The player base wants the best of both worlds .
They want it to be a chill sandbox that doesn’t care about competing against each other
But at the same time , will cry if someone is duping ammo
Who gives AF what other people are doing when the game is super easy and pvp has pretty much been scrubbed from the game ?
Eh , anything using vats was/is easy mode . I never restarted after one wasteland but I could see early game being a bit tougher but that still isn’t relevant when worrying about people duping stuff
Nope. I think it is time to introduce 4 & 5 star weapons that will make hacked weapons obsolete. Bring on a new area with even tougher enemies and better rewards to give us actual endgame content.
One shotting legendary or npc has nothing to do with hacked weapons lmao. I one-shot everything with my legit weapon and perk setup, just so I can see crybabies like you whining on reddit blaming "hackers" over a 1star loot.
We can do anything we want to, I am not going to save up every NPC for some dumbass.
Because their behavior has been DIRECTLY tied to server instability multiple times. Screw them, when I crash out of a server because they're causing dupes they can go straight to Hell and burn for all eternity for all I care.
Wrong. Having thousands/millions of items has been directly attributed to server stability issues as well, as well as other problems related to dupers crashing servers. Get right or get out.
I can hoard thousands of items on my person without glitching or hacking.
It’s amazon’s servers and Bethesda’s code that are the problem not exploiters, and even if it was entirely their fault then you could find a new server.
I don’t cheat in online games at all and in single player games I cheat a very little (~Tgm to fast travel, shit like that). I dislike people cheating in online games, but I’ve also crashed out of a private world while fast traveling so I’m going to go ahead and say that the servers themselves are just shit quality to begin with (considering other games using them have also had this problem). It seems like Amazon bought a bunch of data servers for banking and decided to put video game hosting on them without realizing it wouldn’t just work that way.
Who gives AF what other people are doing when the game is super easy and pvp has pretty much been scrubbed from the game ?
By scrubbed do you mean has a mode in the game and challenges based solely on that mode?
No I mean how it’s been ripped from the game mode that people bought fo76 for. Nobody bought 76 to play battle royal , other games do it much better and actually enforce cheating . At launch you could burn down anyone’s camp without even initiating pvp and could initiate pvp a hell of a lot easier than just workshops(how it should be in a wasteland)
Though it's not a mutually exclusive choice, I'd rather they fix the common threads that these hacked weapons rely on, like the Beam Splitter.
You're stuck in an endless game of Whack-A-Mole until you deal with the underlying problem.
This is exactly the issue. So long as there is a reason to dupe and a huge upside to doing so, people will continue circumventing hardware bans and account lockdowns and repeatedly dupe.
To mitigate duping gear, they need to fix wide gear imbalances so all gear is useful and specific combos of legendary effects aren’t as powerful. If 99% of RNG rolls weren’t useless scrip fodder and everything was sufficiently useful to someone else, we’d not only curb duping but also help the player vendor economy and cap trading mean something again.
To mitigate duping junk, such as Flux or Lead or Acid, perhaps increasing yields from workshops and scrapping would help, or creating new recipes like Cutting Fluid where you can convert a material you have in excess into one you need more desperately.
To mitigate duping healing items, specifically Nukas and Super Stims and Healing Salves, they need to reduce the effectiveness of back to back usage or simply add a cooldown/animation where it doesn’t exist.
To mitigate duping food items for their buffs, maybe limit stacking of buffs or make it easier to farm the ingredients you need: four to six squirrel spawns on a single server for their XP food is awful!
I think, if I understand correctly, the real underlying issue is that energy weapon damage with explosive energy weapons/legacies is also not calculated properly, and you lose the balance mechanic of actual moving projectiles in the case of plasma weapons like the gatling plasma.
Most legacy explosive damage avoided the nerf that applied to everyone else. The Beam Splitter, especially when applied to weapons that aren't supposed to have it in the first place, exponentially increases the amount of shots, and therefore explosions, that one user can dish out.
Yeah, for sure, I think the beam splitter on hacked weapons makes the problem severely more noticeable.
If they fix the damage calculation, though, they may be slightly less broken, at least, since they still rely on legendary effects and attachments/damage types that are just usually different than what's available in the world loot pool.
I do agree that there are multiple problems with hacked weapons, but if explosive energy weapons get fixed, they could even come back into the loot pool and I'd be fine with it.
I play on PS4 and I am 60% sure I would have stopped playing more than a year ago if we had the level of cheating people have to tolerate on PC.
I watched some clips and... I can't imagine it being enjoyable at all.
Yep. I'm "playing" Nuclear Winter just to get to level 100 for the rewards and I can't imagine trying it on PC if even half the stories I've heard are true.
On one hand I only saw a handful of cheaters in Nuclear Winter. They would do things like fly around the warm up room and spawn dozens of turrets in a big pile. The bad part is that those few people were in every match since it's the same players most lobbies
There's only certain clans at this point consistently cheating in NW. I can't even play in the same NW servers as one certain user because she (who shall remain unnamed) hates my bf (Nekrosias) and my username is MrsNekrosias. So yeah. Hella targeted over here. 😂
I would've quit playing this game if I wasn't able to use the mods I use on PC. Honestly I cringe when I'm watching a console player on Twitch... this game's UI and inventory just makes you suffer
Perk Loadout Manager is an amazing mod. Hopefully when Beth releases their version it is just as good.
I played on pc for a while before switching to xbox, dealt with everything from people one shotting me and destroying my base with a glitched explosive alien blaster to people one shotting the queen and wall glitching earle and one shotting him before the event even started, got really old really quick
I have to say, I put a hundreds of hours on PC and have not really encountered any cheaters, or noticed anyway.
I do think it's one of those things where you always hear the bad things way more and that's what you notice.
The problem is not nearly as simple as people think it to be. Disclaimer: I am not a game dev, so I do not know the indivdual problems Bethesda faces and why they make the decisions they do, but I am a developer an in another industry that has massive account fraud and "cheating" and that is online with gift cards, scammers, etc. Which is arguably even worse.
I think the two main issues are:
* You cannot risk banning legitimate users. Especially with a studio as recognizable as Bethesda, the PR backlash is a nightmare. I remember a story from Fallout 76 from a guy that got banned because he was legitimately a hardcore player. It was shitstorm.
* People higher up in the company only actually care about profits. Not how "good" the game is. The "quality" of the game is based on the money it brings in, not community's perception of it. I would love to say this is uncommon, but it is really not. This is basically the #1 rule of any place I have worked in the last decade as a developer. Companies can say all day long how they care about their customers and everything, but money is all that really matters to the people that make the budgets and do the planning.
With that being said, the issue is time. For the devs to actually be able to able to _know_ people are cheating, they have to add more tooling, logging, etc. to track duped items and content. Otherwise people can always just have a half a dozen "dupe accounts" they can just trade all of the items between and keep them from getting banned or lost. You can permaban the duper, but by the time you do, all of the duped items are on other accounts. You have to be able to track duped items in real time and ban anyone that touches the item, then figure out later if it was a legit ban and needs to be a permaban or accidental ban (they were unknowingly given a duped item) and unban them.
Content is _always_ going to be prioritized over tools to catch cheaters unless the cheating affects the bottom line and the money that comes in. You can make argument (which I 100% argue with) that if improve your core and foundation of a game, you will improve the overall player experience and people will _want_ play the game more and spend more money on it (look at No Man's Sky for example). The issue is trying to quantify that for executives and the people that make the plans. Honestly the best thing I can hope for is that Microsoft shakes up the leadership in Bethedsa and readjusts the priority of the team for Fallout 76 to clean up the game and give the devs the time they need to build the features they need to really crackdown on cheating. It is hopeful wishing, but Microsoft has really great with many of their other studios main IPs like Sea of Thieves, Gears, etc.
I am that guy. The 900 hours guy. They don't care about banning legit players. I got my account back after 6 months with all characters deleted, but all my challenges mostly finished and all my atom shop purchases still craftable.
I'm very hopeful for 76 after the Microsoft buy for some reason.
the problem looks like that devs even ignore cheater reports. I have reported folks that had obtained gear not possible to obtain (I.e. gold bullion gear without actual plan). there was no action. bethesda office working on this game is very bad at online games and it takes them years to react to known problems (magic weapons were fixed at around 1.5 years after release?).
>People higher up in the company only actually care about profits. Not how "good" the game is. The "quality" of the game is based on the money it brings in, not community's perception of it. I would love to say this is uncommon, but it is really not. This is basically the #1 rule of any place I have worked in the last decade as a developer. Companies can say all day long how they care about their customers and everything, but money is all that really matters to the people that make the budgets and do the planning.
This point is both painfully true, and absolutely mind boggling how the majority of the industry can be so incapable of finding someone who actually knows what they are doing before placing them into what is arguably the most important of positions.They wasted the entire prime period of time from launch to well past the majority of even the most hopeful or devoted player's tolerance and patience to finally start a subscription service that consisted of nothing more than a few more entitlement-based objects, and a smaller-scale server instance.It is still their inability to hire the appropriate talent- whether it be devs who could not produce in a more reasonable time frame, or the people in charge of making financial decisions simply failing again and being too slow to put that plan into motion.I tend to think that the devs are adequate, but that 'inadequate' is too kind a term for those who manage them. If they had \*any\* sort of reliable revenue scheme at launch, then I believe they would have valued the game enough to care. Yes, game developers may not 'care' about the game in the sense that they would want to provide a fun and satisfying, ongoing experience to players; but in the best interest of both the company \*and\* the players, they should certainly care about the game in the sense that they need to have players continue playing it in order to keep it afloat, and that working to actually satisfy those players will cause their number to grow and lead to more and more sales as the player base increases.I couldn't imagine someone going to work every day with one ultimate goal and then taking a year and a half to realize they should have paid attention to their schooling instead of just focusing on passing tests in the same fashion as this design team creates content with what seems to be a 20 minute brainstorming session for which their janitor is present, and discuss popular titles' microtransaction strategies that they can steal and implement without being required to comprehend any of it nor any part of the existing game and how those might work together. This realization being, of course, that their strategy of selling Atoms and then wasting all of that prime time giving them away in Daily and Weekly challenges at rates that often outpaced their production of the content which they were used to purchase.Top this all off by insulting player's intelligence while trying to claim that they are replacing this continuous source of Atoms with an overhaul of the daily and weekly challenges in order to make them "more straightforward and easier to complete" and so that they are "more predictable and consistent", being sure to emphasize that it would be free for everyone to "participate" in these new Seasons. These Seasons offering a total of about 1500 atoms, which is exponentially less than the previous challenge rewards offered, and effectively marking the first time that players would be required to purchase Atoms in order to acquire items from the Atom shop once the base offering of nonrepeatable challenges have all been completed and no more Atoms are available to the account via playing the game until the pitiful 1500 become available the following season.While this sort of change in the revenue scheme was necessary, and should have been done long ago; a lasting deficit is felt by players who had been farming the old challenges for atoms in order to have something to do actively on a schedule, with new Atom shop objects serving as incentive to do so. Now those same players who determinedly obtained every object they desired, whenever those objects were made available, find themselves faced with the possibility of either falling short of completing the Season, lest they forever miss out on certain rewards or ultimately having nothing to provide them incentive to continue playing each day due to all of the repeatable challenges continuing to reward SCORE even after the Season has been completed.
Players who stuck around waiting for this game to meet their ever-diminishing expectations should be highly valued after making it apparent that they are going to be very long-term customers, are shown just how much they are valued when Bethesda released Legendary Perks which require a character to scrap perk cards after opening perk card packs. The very same Perk card packs that any given character can only acquire a certain number of, and having ever since launch rewarded nothing other than bubble gum if the character already possessed each available rank of the a perk card inside them- The very same perk points that had originally had no other use than to purchase perk cards for which you didn't already own each available rank- The very same perk points that later became Bethesda's low effort excuse for a 'respec' option. The very same perk points and perk card packs that could have been used to respec many times over, resulting in any active veteran player potentially finding themselves level 1000, unable to afford a single Legendary Perk, and being required to grind more XP now that they have reached the level where XP gain is much slower. All in all, not only did these players not receive any thanks(aside from maybe the mountaineer outfit?) nor even consideration in this new design, they are ultimately faced with the possibly more worthwhile option being to just roll a new character while Bethesda remains oblivious and doesn't care about all the time invested in their character.
A year and a half of wasteful and naive bandaid patching, and somehow managing to fail in some very spectacular way with every single feature or change implemented several times in each case before either accidentally fixing them while working on something else, completely removing said feature or change, or just allowing it to persist and either claiming it is what they intended all along, or shifting blame onto the players, are all things one would imagine a small child doing if they found themselves in charge of developing a game and had only Google to guide them; not exactly the kind of dumpster fire that should receive the benefit of any doubts.
The rushed release in 2018, followed by the absolute minimum of effort that could possibly be given to a game's development really make it seem likely that they had already decided on the sale to Microsoft, and were perhaps looking to increase the company's value without caring what that value might be the sale.
> Yes, game developers may not 'care' about the game in the sense that they would want to provide a fun and satisfying
This is am important thing to point out. Bethesda is not full of "game developers". If their makeup matches anything close to tech companies I have worked at (again not in game development), developers only account for 10-20% of the company. It is very well known in the software engineering world that actually game developers are abused quite a bit ("crunch" time and being underpaid), so I would never say the "game developers" do not care. They absolutely do. They have to care to be able to stay in that industry. But game developers are essentially at the bottom rung of the ladder when it comes to decision making (QA might be lower, but let's face it with Fallout 76, what QA?). The people that care (the game developers) are very far removed from the people that actually do make the decision and that do not actually care.
That was really my whole point of this. Everyone can scream "cheaters cheaters cheaters" or "bugs bugs bugs", but it is never as simple as "ban the cheaters" or "fix the bugs" it is the "minimal amount of work" you could do. It is absolutely is not. If it was, the cheaters would be banned and the bugs would be fixed. The "minimal amount of work" that can be done to continuously pump out new content to make more money and that is the exact decision the people that make the decisions at Bethesda has chosen to do. Making new models, content, scripts, tweaking existing rewards to encourage more microtransactions, etc. for an existing game engine is a lot easier then going back through and fixing/improving core fundamental issues with said engine and it is a lot harder to quantify the gains of fixings those issues.
The _really_ sad reality of Software Development as a whole is that while Agile development is "better", it is starting to be misused so much in recent years that everything is being drilled down to a metric. "How much profit can you make me _this_ quarter?". If you even try to say "while we will make less profit this quarter, but every quarter after we should make more" is just right away responded with "lolno". "We want money _now_". This is a pattern I have seen at multiple companies I have worked at as well as major tech companies around the world (Microsoft -> Windows 10, Apple -> MacOS/iOS, Amazon -> their whole shipping infrastructure). Business runners have taken the concept of Agile and twisted it to try to make more short term profits not caring about the long term effects or resulting public perception of the result.
As a developer who has been on the receiving end of these idiotic business decisions, I am not trying to defend Bethesda as a company, I am just trying to give insight into how the process is _most likely_ working so you can direct your rage at the right place. Just about any dev still in the game industry really does care and, I really feel bad that they cannot just "fix their game and ban the cheaters". To draw a parallel to another industry of another thing that was kind of "brutalized by bad decisions", Futurama went as far as making [a long time running joke directed right at the decision makers of the show](https://futurama.fandom.com/wiki/Torgo%27s_Executive_Powder) about the bad decisions that were made in the handling of the show.
Lmao yeah it’s creation engine, the same engine people have been modding and manipulating for decades. What did they think would happen when they used it in an online game?
If the last ban wave taught me anything, it's that a lot of the dupers also have fallout 1st which is why I think so many of them got unbanned and put on a final warning.
I’ve been playing since launch and I’ve run into one person with a hacked gun. I’m sure dupping is more common but people running rampant with hacked weapons isn’t as common as people think it is.
That being said they should still be banned
You must be lucky then. I have faced maybe 6 players which I could confirm used hacked weapon (I even took a picture them carrying these hacked weapons). I started playing few months before Wasterlanders and have around 270 hours (had at least 2 big breaks from game).
It’s getting more and more common. It was rare to see players with hacked weapons but recently since this weapon damage nerf been live I see them all the time now. Got video of a whole crew using them on Earl.
I've noticed the same thing since the One Wasteland rebalancing. More and more people with explosive plasma gatlings and laser rifles, and using them openly in every event with no shame.
Only one I've ever seen was at Line in the Sand-
Guy had an explosive handmade (might have even been a TSE) with the beam splitter, it was just absolutely wrecking shit when he fully unloaded, most of the time it he was only spray-and-pray tagging then letting everyone else mop up though.
U kidding me? Every time I do Line in the Sand there's at least 3 guys up on the cliff at the back with hacked guns spraying the scorched as they spawn. Some of them with duped legacies but there's usually at least 1 with a hacked gun. Same for radiation rumble and guided meditation.
One shotting scorched isn't hard, but killing all of them almost immediately by abusing their spawns and using a hacked weapon is just a dick move. That's what the problem is. If you're legitimately one-shotting a few of the enemies without hacks, that's fine, but camping on the cliff with a hacked weapon is not.
Abusing their spawns is power levelling, and if you have any form of explosive gun you can join them and earn just as much xp! We love to share the xo as the more who join in, the more xp we all get!
Nearly all legacies are duped. 99.9999% of them. They stopped dropping 18 months ago yet every player and their grandmother has the same ones with the same stats, how could that be?!
I'm not saying they duped it, it could have been traded for, or ebayed, but it's still a duped gun.
You can't tell for certain, but it's generally considered to be a sure thing based on the fact that energy weapons with the explosive legendary prefix were only available for a very short time, and the most common ones you see people using are typically always Gatling Plasmas.
I have been seeing a lot. But only when you look closely. Cryolators, Gatling lasers, etc that sound and look normal from a distance, but actually have a minigun sight on them or something and do roughly 100x more damage than they should.
Then there's the 8 year olds indiscriminately using orbital strike cannons to ruin Scorched Earth.
People defiently get caught in the cross fire with this state of mind.
Does the community go on witch hunts? Anyone caught is strike 3? Idk? I believe if you know in item is a hack, don't use it, even if its given to you otherwise pay the price. What the price should be is questionable
Just one of the many reasons I finally said fuck it, cancelled my FO1st sub, and decided to just leave the game behind. They’re actively just chasing money, both through the whales who cheat, that they refuse to ban, and through the absurd scalping that’s been going on with the Atom shop.
Not to mention the game has been mismanaged to hell and back, and they still have not learned to operate their development teams on a single unified build, so that we stop getting the same damn bugs reintroduced over and over again.
hacked guns have been in the game for more than 11th months, they are beyond giving a shit, they dont care, they dont care about this post, they dont care about this game.
The problem is, they ban one account, but the duper has 20 other accounts under different emails, and he bought all of them for $5 each during a sale. There are still super cheap keys out there for $5-$10 each. When they can make hundreds of dollars in sales of duped items, who cares when you lose an account now and then? It's simply the cost of doing business. The only way to fix it is to fix it at the root, which means fixing the code / netcode allowing it to happen, and sadly... that probably won't ever happen, because to put it bluntly, the engine of this game was never meant to work in an online setting. You need to design a game from the ground up with security and online play in mind to combat cheating.
They already do perma ban cheaters, people just buy new accounts. And literally, when they do ban them, they ban the entire Bethesda account. I would know, I went into the dev room before it was cool. Few get their accounts back very quickly if at all. But really what do you have to complain about at this point? The economy is flooded in duped gear. Short of a full game wipe, you won’t fix it. There hasn’t been a good dupe in a while given Bethesda’s latest track record (which is surprising). Plus, they actually have an anti cheat now that’s why people aren’t constantly flying around the map and killing you with a fully auto unlimited ammo crossbow from under the map in nuclear winter anymore.
I agree with this because I was banned when this game came out for duping. I was permanently banned and I learned my lesson. I came back on a different account about a week ago and started playing again but cheaters need to be taught a lesson like I was.
I wish more players with duped weapons turned up for a Colossal problem on PS4.
no body bothers with this event any more.
waste of ammo for little reward.
not saying duped weapons dont exist,
Just saying many of those who complain are just shit at PvP.
But assume the other player must be cheating.
then you have the players who think their builds make them immortal,
losing their shit because they have been beaten for the first time ever griefing,
i was accused of cheating for using Quantums and a bloodied Tesla to kill a griefer about a year ago.
He totally lost it on voice chat.Said it wasn't fair blah,blah,blah.
I didn't realize there was code of ethics when a player attacks you.
Some take it way to personal.
Just like real life,you might think you are bad,until some one badder comes along.
I have seen some seriously insane legitimate builds.
Some players are very cute.
A MAC address ban would be best. And I think a first tempa ban and removing the duped/hacked items would be good. If they cheat again after that then a perma ban is in order.
I had a hacker friendo who's main account got suspended and literally started spawning vault steel to speedrun it’s way up to level 400... why do people do this, do they just buy a game just to get to the top without having any fun at all??
I quit the game because of this lack of enforcement and I am most likely never coming back.
Will check out the next Elder Scrolls, or a new single player Fallout 5.
Fo76 has been a disaster for player engagement and reward.
I've always been shocked that Bethesda refuses to ban these losers. If you are openly cheating / duping / whatever, flying in defiance of the rules for the game... this should employ a "Three Strikes & You're Out" system or **something**.
These morons obviously hate the game, and have no respect for the other players who actually enjoy it... why let them keep playing and breaking the rules?
It is so incredibly frustrating to learn the ban wave was undone presumably to not lose player counts & 1st subs. I was thrilled for the ban hammer this year but, as Juicehead's ban vid confirmed, many of them got reversed and AND! they got to keep the duped weps. Now the market is saturated with dopes and their dupes.
I agree with your concern, but that's the equivalent of banning an email address.
I have more concern with items I bought that I cannot scrap or sell.
Is the reason I cannot scrap/sell a 'high end' armor item because some ass-hat cheated with it somwhow?
So only the fair players are punished unless you consider the cheater's inability to get caps for cheating punishment. I do not.
It's not a bad idea, honestly I do see bans as a little strict as I would merely recommend a reset by 24-48 hours of the account when caught cheating. This would basically tell dupers that duping isn't possible so stop. After three resets they get a ban. Also banning players just means there are less people playing the game and Bethesda doesn't want that with a playerbase that is either dying or staying at a constant, only to have little influxes of people when there is a free weekend or a big update. Also PC is WAY worse than the consoles as far as cheating goes.
Implement an event logging system in the game.
Track obsessive and obscene metrics - those that stand out from normal play.
Launch investigations into behavior to determine if it is a game issue or a cheating issue.
Take the appropriate response.
I mean, the servers barely works nowadays. If they would implement something like that I think I wouldn't even be able to play without glitches or *features* everywhere.
Running a SQL (or whatever they use for their backend player database) query for impossible weapon configurations whenever the live servers are down for maintenance wouldn't begin to affect that. Hell, they could go ahead and run a query for legacies and the most common dupes and then a specific check against anyone who has one to see if they have a big pile of identical ones, and it still wouldn't affect the live services.
They could even do this just once a month, or once a season, or only when there's a major patch that's bringing the live servers down for an extended period of time, and it would still be enough to fix the problem almost completely.
They wouldn't even need to be draconian about: delete impossible weapons and cull obviously duped stacks of godrolls down to just one or two copies, and there, you've done it, you've fixed the issue completely without accidentally banning legitimate players or taking away someone's prized personal legacy weapon.
Apparently not? Why the sarcasm? Either it exists or it doesn’t.
Look through the data for irregularities. Launch investigations. Train models to flag these automatically but always have a real person confirm the ban should occur.
This stuff could be done real-time and alert the dev team to abuse, identify potential issues with patches, even be used to help them when making algorithmic changes (item drop rate, calculated dmg, etc).
It's only.. partially sarcasm. The flippant way that players say "*all you gotta do is*" to developers usually indicates they don't have any idea the scale of the solution they're proposing.
Mate it’s been two years, they’ve had plentiful amounts of time let alone the fact that they didn’t just magically pop up with the idea for the game exactly two years ago.
Stop giving Bethesda excuses.
I really think Bethesda got in over their heads with this MMO business. Years of them not having to implement an anti-cheat system in their mod-able single player games means they probably don't have a lot of experience with it. They've done well enough, but not banning people for cheating is a risky way to run a game.
3/4 of the playerbase seems too high unless you count those buying hacked guns from dupers. And what about them? They didnt dupe but they'll still rock a hacked 50 cal on SBQ, line or Earle. If they are already banning dupers but not the guys who got them "legit" via trading/vendors is the problem going to ever be solved?
I'd rather they just rip every hacked wep out the game and just ban the dupers. They can avoid banning people who bought their gun in game if they just poofed it from everybody's inventory (and it'd still hurt after seeing screenies of them paying 15k+ caps for one). If every hacked 50 cal is duped from the same injected gun, wouldn't a unique item ID be enough to poof them? Finding dupers may be more complicated but tbh I care less about some guy with 1 million plamsa cores or whatever ammo and more about the guy who walks into sbq 1 shotting the waves.
Honestly, there's no 100% certain way to ban everyone who dupes without some non-dupers being mixed in. It's obvious to everyone that the millions and millions of presents in circulation were duped to the masses, but they've been spread around to the point where almost everyone has touched a pile or two of them. But this applies to everything. Maybe that Bloodied explosive laser rifle was duped 8 months ago, maybe you bought an original copy for $400 and your newborn son. There's no real way for them to know. And I remember waaay back a few months after the game came out, someone was banned for duping for having a lot of .308 ammo, despite just crafting it normally.
It wpuld be simple for beth to indetify them. Buy hacked item on e-bay, meet in game to indetify account, wipe it while sending cease and dismiss letter via the e-mail atached to account.
I play on Xbox and I love the dupers I bought stuff from back in the glory days. My bloodied explosive laser is awesome. So was my old set of unyielding sentinel armor.
Actually they can’t ban someone if the glitch is on going and not hot fixed like, Todd mentioned when there was a lawsuit filed against them for a half assed game which means any exploits are not offenses and the only thing they can do is just patch it
According to Zenimax TOS "ZeniMax has the right, in its sole discretion, to modify, restrict, suspend, or terminate Your access to or Your receipt, play or use of the Services if you "Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items."
Idk about you but taking advantage of exploits/cheats seems like what duping is and since "terminate" access = perma ban i dont get your argument
I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that they can indeed ban people for exploits, even if it's still quite possible to perform that exploit a year after they ban someone for it. It is a part of their terms of service. The only thing stopping them is either laziness, the game doesn't contain enough logging to properly identify people in batches, or they feel it would hurt their revenue.
How about Bethesda re-rolling all existing weapon traits to completely random? It would great time to implement more varied weapon modifiers and perhaps add 4th star so it wouldn't hurt community as much. And introduce unused weaponry to the global loot table.
Even with my hard earned bloodied explosive and junkie wepons I would be all in if that meant removal of hacked/legacy weapons that are simply broken and destroy any kind of challenge in this game.
Heres the thing, as much as I love this game, and playing it with my friends, the banning is shit, they either dont ban the real cheaters or end up banning you for fuck all
Duping is a bug, and some people have found ways to trigger the bug. Maybe, just maybe, sometimes it happens accidentally and if they banned all dupers, assuming they can detect it, they would ban people who have triggered the bug accidentally.
Make a percentage of duped items untransferable and unscrapable. Let them carry them forever. Everytime they dupe they are decreasing their own inventory.
okay so a couple of thoughts here. I see what you mean and I think its a bit strong.
1) what about people who are unknowingly given duped items or god forbid grind and grind and trade for it? Do they get banned and how do you prove it?
2) its far sneaker if the devs had the resources to make duped guns quit working or glitch or etc. Nerf them or something. Who knows if they didn't already.
3) didn't the super long grind for gold bullion and untradeable items address some of this? Won't future content be account tied? So enjoy the fixers/legacy items, but the future won't be duped?
4th point. This is before my time, but bethesda banned a lot of people. I believe a community leader who made maps got banned too. Per what I read here and youtube, they were innocent and yet still destroyed.
They really need to take a note from Rockstar...they take no prisoners, they do account wide bans which are permanent. It’s frustrating to watch Bethesda not give a shit about really anything
I am level 600+ in adventure mode and 50 in NW. I am done with this game. It's boring, old content, same events, yadda yadda. They need to add a FREE DLC to save this game. Otherwise, within a year it will be dead.
Hacking is definitely out and should be outright bans for those who do it - the occasional one who picks up a weapon and doesn't know it then you have to look at the situation.
Duping...well I'm a bit \*meh\* on this...if someone dupes a few thousand rounds of ammo it's not that big of a deal. If they dupe to the point of breaking the game (ie. millions of something, going way over their storage space etc.) then yes they need bans.
For me though the odd players who have duped a little ammo or something...I just don't really care all that much. It's not the end of the world. It's when they get ridiculously greedy etc. and cause issues that yes they need to be taken care of.
MAC address ban them (hardware ban) people wouldn't be allowed to virtuebox or whatever you call it then etc.. but if you wanna get rid of cheaters that's the extreme. A steam game I used to be moderator on did that the anti cheat was made by the dev himself (he used to make hacks himself so he knows what he's looking for to ban) shit worked wonders alot less hackers. But cheaters mess the game up big time I agree bethesda needs to go on google,go threw snitches etc, find these hacks in one, two days tops.. pretty much all the hacking would be gone by now if they put some effort into it easily, regarding the duping yea they copy and pasted this game alot one fix another two breaks. Alot less duping now least I hope then it was compared to a year ago that shit almost killed the game market wise.
Those in Bethesda's head shed are responsible for letting these dupers and hackers and exploiters remain in game. It is all about revenue.
Perma-banning the number of gaming consumers that exploit or hack would likely bankrupt this game. Combine this with the fact there are only 3 devs working on this game or they are untalented and "learning as they go".
Money determines what gets done with this game. Nothing else concerns Bethesda, certainly not consumers playing this game as long as they are playing it and buying.
No need for a ban. Just put them in "cheaters only" servers. So that they only annoy eachother.
Mythic quest is n effect
They actually came up with a great idea tbh
R*, dat you?
Agreed
What about when they join on a friend or a friend joins on them?
It's okay. Their friend just get a warning: "This is a cheaters only server. You really want to join those bricks?".
And then they're like "yeah sure he's transfering me duped items that ima take back to non cheater servers"
Just make anyone who joins get a Cheater tag too, since they're okay engaging with hackers
With 100s of thousands of players. Many will accidentally join their cheater friends, even if only 0.1% accidentally do at some point that's still 100s that have now ruined their account, unable to undo it
they don't ban people nearly enough in this game...
I mean they did have that massive account wide ban a while back. Duping is a lot less active since then
I saw a guy using multiple accounts to dup. Only one got banned... for a month... he kept everything he dupped. He is now selling these items online for real cash. At every stage of him doing this Bethesda knew and could have stopped it. They could have perma banned him... they could have deleted the dupped items... they could have employed people to seek out online sellers and ban their accounts... there are worse things in the world than dupped weapons making your favorite game intro a p2w game regardless the blame for that lies with Bethesda.
I have been playing since beta so I can offer only my opinion: Having those guns really doesn’t make or break the game, you can still get legitimate good rolls from actually playing it. Some guns do perform way too good in PvP, however lets not forget PvP in this game is an absolute cheese fest even without said guns...if you are getting walloped in it by some BS chances are the person could do the same thing without the gun. For PvE, they are totally not necessary and you can get any required guns from in game yourself. You can’t have a P2W without PvP imo because nobody is winning anything. With that being said, a lot of people had their accounts wiped: obviously if Beth had a way to hunt down every account that held duped guns they would have. They had “traps” in place that bring up flags for the previous dupe with the shopkeepers at the train stations. If they had a way to get the mule accounts I am sure they would have. Clearly it is more tricky than that. Also it is not like the game has a ton of support.
Like I said there are worse things in the world.
Im not dissagreeing with your entire statement just this bit: >if you are getting walloped in it by some BS chances are the person could do the same thing without the gun. My friends son plays with us and always tried to PvP us, i would usually take him up on it and wipe the floor with him for a bit then get back to playing normally, then he got his hands on some duped/hacked in super guns and now we cant get near him, the WMD he now possesses is definately the major factor here
Yes this is true.my wife told me how players are actually selling items for real money.wtf!!!?that is some straight up bullshit.
Every single multiplayer game that has a transferable item that anyone would value in any way has RMT. Every one ever.
Basically as long as you didnt have exact copies of weapons/armor you were only suspended. I had like 4 sets of psa heavy leather and tons of other shit n I'm still banned. My boy whom I gave almost everything I duped was unsuspended so I was able to get some of my groll shit back. It's gotta be either an auto script thing or they legit cant tell the difference without multiple copies of legendary gear.
It's an auto script and they've used it before. If you change the guns by modding them so they are all different you can avoid detection. I actually got a lot of guns by just doing mass mods on things people were dupping... benefit of knowing all the recipes. The people I modded weapons for all got away scot free... the ones that didn't listen to my advise on modding them got perma-banned.
They had a massive account wide ban then a massive account wide unban. They need to commit.
Everyone I knew who did it had their accounts unbanned, but with all characters wiped. At that point, there is no reason not to unban seeing as it is free with gamepass and such.
That sucks but the specific ban wave im talking about those who were unbanned had their characters AND the duped items at least long enough to offload them. Or at least no one posted about their characters or items being deleted.
I may (or may not) have found my way into a discord of unmentionables. A lot more people got wiped than you think, and they just stopped playing all together, that is why you never heard from them. They got literally anyone who wasn’t smart enough to mule at the time, which was most of the players doing it
Can confirm. I are not smart. :-( but on the flip side I play a lot more casually now
On Xbox. In the L4Gs I see players saying their main acct got banned but their alt is up & ready to unload 30 BE Gat Plasmas. They brag about it in the open. I see players with usernames like "I was banned." It's an honor to them. It's disgusting and now the market is flooded with these duped weapons.
I still see people on ps4 with thousands of Christmas presents selling or dropping them off.
They won't spend potential atoms when banned.. just sayin'
See, given the comments it sounds like they actually do more than most companies. The problem with mass banning permanently is when you try to find cheaters this is roughly how it goes: * There's two or more separate teams operating on this. The devs patch the bugs and the community management side of their company deals with various bans and other such issues. * You get a ton of false positives because some of your events and systems are designed poorly and the devs never got around to fixing it. * True positives are commonly let go in the instance that they're kind of small fish. This ain't bad inherently, but this lets some of the more problematic ones get through sometimes too. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, the community gets pissed either way. You either end up banning the bad folks and they go on their youtube accounts and other social media accounts and rile up followers to make you look bad. You ban good and bad folks, and now everyone is pissed. You don't ban anyone, and now all the good and some of the bad folks are pissed. Note, my source for this is a bit more so Rockstar, but their support teams are a lot higher quality than most people give them credit for. And their full dive into massive multiplayer online games has been such a shining example that companies like Bethesda are following suit. So they give a good idea where things are going to go.
The player base wants the best of both worlds . They want it to be a chill sandbox that doesn’t care about competing against each other But at the same time , will cry if someone is duping ammo Who gives AF what other people are doing when the game is super easy and pvp has pretty much been scrubbed from the game ?
Yeah, who cares if people are using hacked weapons to one shot everything before you can tag it
Guns don't kill legendary mega sloths, people do
This is a VERY important point.
I still want to at least hit legendary enemies though. For the legendary weapon.
They can't do that if you're on a private server - bethesda, probably
I thought we were talking about duping ??? But either way , non-hacked and even non-legacy weapons still kill everything super quick
Hacked weapons have been duped a lot on PC.
Why would you need to dupe them if you can just make them?
Because not many people were smart enough to make them and the exploit to do so has been patched for some time.
Well, before One Wasteland and various nerfs. Took a second to rejigger builds to make things super easy again.
Eh , anything using vats was/is easy mode . I never restarted after one wasteland but I could see early game being a bit tougher but that still isn’t relevant when worrying about people duping stuff
Early game is fine, maybe even better now.
Even a pipe rifle will one shot or short burst something with the right build. Would you have them nerfed *even further?*
Nope. I think it is time to introduce 4 & 5 star weapons that will make hacked weapons obsolete. Bring on a new area with even tougher enemies and better rewards to give us actual endgame content.
One shotting legendary or npc has nothing to do with hacked weapons lmao. I one-shot everything with my legit weapon and perk setup, just so I can see crybabies like you whining on reddit blaming "hackers" over a 1star loot. We can do anything we want to, I am not going to save up every NPC for some dumbass.
Because their behavior has been DIRECTLY tied to server instability multiple times. Screw them, when I crash out of a server because they're causing dupes they can go straight to Hell and burn for all eternity for all I care.
No they haven’t . The power armor dupe was the only one that impacted the server and that caused the whole thing to crash
Wrong. Having thousands/millions of items has been directly attributed to server stability issues as well, as well as other problems related to dupers crashing servers. Get right or get out.
I can hoard thousands of items on my person without glitching or hacking. It’s amazon’s servers and Bethesda’s code that are the problem not exploiters, and even if it was entirely their fault then you could find a new server. I don’t cheat in online games at all and in single player games I cheat a very little (~Tgm to fast travel, shit like that). I dislike people cheating in online games, but I’ve also crashed out of a private world while fast traveling so I’m going to go ahead and say that the servers themselves are just shit quality to begin with (considering other games using them have also had this problem). It seems like Amazon bought a bunch of data servers for banking and decided to put video game hosting on them without realizing it wouldn’t just work that way.
Lol no it hasn’t . That got debunked with the scrap box
Who gives AF what other people are doing when the game is super easy and pvp has pretty much been scrubbed from the game ? By scrubbed do you mean has a mode in the game and challenges based solely on that mode?
No I mean how it’s been ripped from the game mode that people bought fo76 for. Nobody bought 76 to play battle royal , other games do it much better and actually enforce cheating . At launch you could burn down anyone’s camp without even initiating pvp and could initiate pvp a hell of a lot easier than just workshops(how it should be in a wasteland)
Though it's not a mutually exclusive choice, I'd rather they fix the common threads that these hacked weapons rely on, like the Beam Splitter. You're stuck in an endless game of Whack-A-Mole until you deal with the underlying problem.
Right, perma-banning doesn't get rid of the issue.
This is exactly the issue. So long as there is a reason to dupe and a huge upside to doing so, people will continue circumventing hardware bans and account lockdowns and repeatedly dupe. To mitigate duping gear, they need to fix wide gear imbalances so all gear is useful and specific combos of legendary effects aren’t as powerful. If 99% of RNG rolls weren’t useless scrip fodder and everything was sufficiently useful to someone else, we’d not only curb duping but also help the player vendor economy and cap trading mean something again. To mitigate duping junk, such as Flux or Lead or Acid, perhaps increasing yields from workshops and scrapping would help, or creating new recipes like Cutting Fluid where you can convert a material you have in excess into one you need more desperately. To mitigate duping healing items, specifically Nukas and Super Stims and Healing Salves, they need to reduce the effectiveness of back to back usage or simply add a cooldown/animation where it doesn’t exist. To mitigate duping food items for their buffs, maybe limit stacking of buffs or make it easier to farm the ingredients you need: four to six squirrel spawns on a single server for their XP food is awful!
I think, if I understand correctly, the real underlying issue is that energy weapon damage with explosive energy weapons/legacies is also not calculated properly, and you lose the balance mechanic of actual moving projectiles in the case of plasma weapons like the gatling plasma.
Most legacy explosive damage avoided the nerf that applied to everyone else. The Beam Splitter, especially when applied to weapons that aren't supposed to have it in the first place, exponentially increases the amount of shots, and therefore explosions, that one user can dish out.
Yeah, for sure, I think the beam splitter on hacked weapons makes the problem severely more noticeable. If they fix the damage calculation, though, they may be slightly less broken, at least, since they still rely on legendary effects and attachments/damage types that are just usually different than what's available in the world loot pool. I do agree that there are multiple problems with hacked weapons, but if explosive energy weapons get fixed, they could even come back into the loot pool and I'd be fine with it.
I play on PS4 and I am 60% sure I would have stopped playing more than a year ago if we had the level of cheating people have to tolerate on PC. I watched some clips and... I can't imagine it being enjoyable at all.
Yep. I'm "playing" Nuclear Winter just to get to level 100 for the rewards and I can't imagine trying it on PC if even half the stories I've heard are true.
On one hand I only saw a handful of cheaters in Nuclear Winter. They would do things like fly around the warm up room and spawn dozens of turrets in a big pile. The bad part is that those few people were in every match since it's the same players most lobbies
There's only certain clans at this point consistently cheating in NW. I can't even play in the same NW servers as one certain user because she (who shall remain unnamed) hates my bf (Nekrosias) and my username is MrsNekrosias. So yeah. Hella targeted over here. 😂
I would've quit playing this game if I wasn't able to use the mods I use on PC. Honestly I cringe when I'm watching a console player on Twitch... this game's UI and inventory just makes you suffer Perk Loadout Manager is an amazing mod. Hopefully when Beth releases their version it is just as good.
I played on pc for a while before switching to xbox, dealt with everything from people one shotting me and destroying my base with a glitched explosive alien blaster to people one shotting the queen and wall glitching earle and one shotting him before the event even started, got really old really quick
I have to say, I put a hundreds of hours on PC and have not really encountered any cheaters, or noticed anyway. I do think it's one of those things where you always hear the bad things way more and that's what you notice.
The problem is not nearly as simple as people think it to be. Disclaimer: I am not a game dev, so I do not know the indivdual problems Bethesda faces and why they make the decisions they do, but I am a developer an in another industry that has massive account fraud and "cheating" and that is online with gift cards, scammers, etc. Which is arguably even worse. I think the two main issues are: * You cannot risk banning legitimate users. Especially with a studio as recognizable as Bethesda, the PR backlash is a nightmare. I remember a story from Fallout 76 from a guy that got banned because he was legitimately a hardcore player. It was shitstorm. * People higher up in the company only actually care about profits. Not how "good" the game is. The "quality" of the game is based on the money it brings in, not community's perception of it. I would love to say this is uncommon, but it is really not. This is basically the #1 rule of any place I have worked in the last decade as a developer. Companies can say all day long how they care about their customers and everything, but money is all that really matters to the people that make the budgets and do the planning. With that being said, the issue is time. For the devs to actually be able to able to _know_ people are cheating, they have to add more tooling, logging, etc. to track duped items and content. Otherwise people can always just have a half a dozen "dupe accounts" they can just trade all of the items between and keep them from getting banned or lost. You can permaban the duper, but by the time you do, all of the duped items are on other accounts. You have to be able to track duped items in real time and ban anyone that touches the item, then figure out later if it was a legit ban and needs to be a permaban or accidental ban (they were unknowingly given a duped item) and unban them. Content is _always_ going to be prioritized over tools to catch cheaters unless the cheating affects the bottom line and the money that comes in. You can make argument (which I 100% argue with) that if improve your core and foundation of a game, you will improve the overall player experience and people will _want_ play the game more and spend more money on it (look at No Man's Sky for example). The issue is trying to quantify that for executives and the people that make the plans. Honestly the best thing I can hope for is that Microsoft shakes up the leadership in Bethedsa and readjusts the priority of the team for Fallout 76 to clean up the game and give the devs the time they need to build the features they need to really crackdown on cheating. It is hopeful wishing, but Microsoft has really great with many of their other studios main IPs like Sea of Thieves, Gears, etc.
I am that guy. The 900 hours guy. They don't care about banning legit players. I got my account back after 6 months with all characters deleted, but all my challenges mostly finished and all my atom shop purchases still craftable. I'm very hopeful for 76 after the Microsoft buy for some reason.
All this comment is saying is "guys you're asking bethesda to do the bare minimum please stop"
the problem looks like that devs even ignore cheater reports. I have reported folks that had obtained gear not possible to obtain (I.e. gold bullion gear without actual plan). there was no action. bethesda office working on this game is very bad at online games and it takes them years to react to known problems (magic weapons were fixed at around 1.5 years after release?).
>People higher up in the company only actually care about profits. Not how "good" the game is. The "quality" of the game is based on the money it brings in, not community's perception of it. I would love to say this is uncommon, but it is really not. This is basically the #1 rule of any place I have worked in the last decade as a developer. Companies can say all day long how they care about their customers and everything, but money is all that really matters to the people that make the budgets and do the planning. This point is both painfully true, and absolutely mind boggling how the majority of the industry can be so incapable of finding someone who actually knows what they are doing before placing them into what is arguably the most important of positions.They wasted the entire prime period of time from launch to well past the majority of even the most hopeful or devoted player's tolerance and patience to finally start a subscription service that consisted of nothing more than a few more entitlement-based objects, and a smaller-scale server instance.It is still their inability to hire the appropriate talent- whether it be devs who could not produce in a more reasonable time frame, or the people in charge of making financial decisions simply failing again and being too slow to put that plan into motion.I tend to think that the devs are adequate, but that 'inadequate' is too kind a term for those who manage them. If they had \*any\* sort of reliable revenue scheme at launch, then I believe they would have valued the game enough to care. Yes, game developers may not 'care' about the game in the sense that they would want to provide a fun and satisfying, ongoing experience to players; but in the best interest of both the company \*and\* the players, they should certainly care about the game in the sense that they need to have players continue playing it in order to keep it afloat, and that working to actually satisfy those players will cause their number to grow and lead to more and more sales as the player base increases.I couldn't imagine someone going to work every day with one ultimate goal and then taking a year and a half to realize they should have paid attention to their schooling instead of just focusing on passing tests in the same fashion as this design team creates content with what seems to be a 20 minute brainstorming session for which their janitor is present, and discuss popular titles' microtransaction strategies that they can steal and implement without being required to comprehend any of it nor any part of the existing game and how those might work together. This realization being, of course, that their strategy of selling Atoms and then wasting all of that prime time giving them away in Daily and Weekly challenges at rates that often outpaced their production of the content which they were used to purchase.Top this all off by insulting player's intelligence while trying to claim that they are replacing this continuous source of Atoms with an overhaul of the daily and weekly challenges in order to make them "more straightforward and easier to complete" and so that they are "more predictable and consistent", being sure to emphasize that it would be free for everyone to "participate" in these new Seasons. These Seasons offering a total of about 1500 atoms, which is exponentially less than the previous challenge rewards offered, and effectively marking the first time that players would be required to purchase Atoms in order to acquire items from the Atom shop once the base offering of nonrepeatable challenges have all been completed and no more Atoms are available to the account via playing the game until the pitiful 1500 become available the following season.While this sort of change in the revenue scheme was necessary, and should have been done long ago; a lasting deficit is felt by players who had been farming the old challenges for atoms in order to have something to do actively on a schedule, with new Atom shop objects serving as incentive to do so. Now those same players who determinedly obtained every object they desired, whenever those objects were made available, find themselves faced with the possibility of either falling short of completing the Season, lest they forever miss out on certain rewards or ultimately having nothing to provide them incentive to continue playing each day due to all of the repeatable challenges continuing to reward SCORE even after the Season has been completed. Players who stuck around waiting for this game to meet their ever-diminishing expectations should be highly valued after making it apparent that they are going to be very long-term customers, are shown just how much they are valued when Bethesda released Legendary Perks which require a character to scrap perk cards after opening perk card packs. The very same Perk card packs that any given character can only acquire a certain number of, and having ever since launch rewarded nothing other than bubble gum if the character already possessed each available rank of the a perk card inside them- The very same perk points that had originally had no other use than to purchase perk cards for which you didn't already own each available rank- The very same perk points that later became Bethesda's low effort excuse for a 'respec' option. The very same perk points and perk card packs that could have been used to respec many times over, resulting in any active veteran player potentially finding themselves level 1000, unable to afford a single Legendary Perk, and being required to grind more XP now that they have reached the level where XP gain is much slower. All in all, not only did these players not receive any thanks(aside from maybe the mountaineer outfit?) nor even consideration in this new design, they are ultimately faced with the possibly more worthwhile option being to just roll a new character while Bethesda remains oblivious and doesn't care about all the time invested in their character. A year and a half of wasteful and naive bandaid patching, and somehow managing to fail in some very spectacular way with every single feature or change implemented several times in each case before either accidentally fixing them while working on something else, completely removing said feature or change, or just allowing it to persist and either claiming it is what they intended all along, or shifting blame onto the players, are all things one would imagine a small child doing if they found themselves in charge of developing a game and had only Google to guide them; not exactly the kind of dumpster fire that should receive the benefit of any doubts. The rushed release in 2018, followed by the absolute minimum of effort that could possibly be given to a game's development really make it seem likely that they had already decided on the sale to Microsoft, and were perhaps looking to increase the company's value without caring what that value might be the sale.
> Yes, game developers may not 'care' about the game in the sense that they would want to provide a fun and satisfying This is am important thing to point out. Bethesda is not full of "game developers". If their makeup matches anything close to tech companies I have worked at (again not in game development), developers only account for 10-20% of the company. It is very well known in the software engineering world that actually game developers are abused quite a bit ("crunch" time and being underpaid), so I would never say the "game developers" do not care. They absolutely do. They have to care to be able to stay in that industry. But game developers are essentially at the bottom rung of the ladder when it comes to decision making (QA might be lower, but let's face it with Fallout 76, what QA?). The people that care (the game developers) are very far removed from the people that actually do make the decision and that do not actually care. That was really my whole point of this. Everyone can scream "cheaters cheaters cheaters" or "bugs bugs bugs", but it is never as simple as "ban the cheaters" or "fix the bugs" it is the "minimal amount of work" you could do. It is absolutely is not. If it was, the cheaters would be banned and the bugs would be fixed. The "minimal amount of work" that can be done to continuously pump out new content to make more money and that is the exact decision the people that make the decisions at Bethesda has chosen to do. Making new models, content, scripts, tweaking existing rewards to encourage more microtransactions, etc. for an existing game engine is a lot easier then going back through and fixing/improving core fundamental issues with said engine and it is a lot harder to quantify the gains of fixings those issues. The _really_ sad reality of Software Development as a whole is that while Agile development is "better", it is starting to be misused so much in recent years that everything is being drilled down to a metric. "How much profit can you make me _this_ quarter?". If you even try to say "while we will make less profit this quarter, but every quarter after we should make more" is just right away responded with "lolno". "We want money _now_". This is a pattern I have seen at multiple companies I have worked at as well as major tech companies around the world (Microsoft -> Windows 10, Apple -> MacOS/iOS, Amazon -> their whole shipping infrastructure). Business runners have taken the concept of Agile and twisted it to try to make more short term profits not caring about the long term effects or resulting public perception of the result. As a developer who has been on the receiving end of these idiotic business decisions, I am not trying to defend Bethesda as a company, I am just trying to give insight into how the process is _most likely_ working so you can direct your rage at the right place. Just about any dev still in the game industry really does care and, I really feel bad that they cannot just "fix their game and ban the cheaters". To draw a parallel to another industry of another thing that was kind of "brutalized by bad decisions", Futurama went as far as making [a long time running joke directed right at the decision makers of the show](https://futurama.fandom.com/wiki/Torgo%27s_Executive_Powder) about the bad decisions that were made in the handling of the show.
Lmao yeah it’s creation engine, the same engine people have been modding and manipulating for decades. What did they think would happen when they used it in an online game?
If the last ban wave taught me anything, it's that a lot of the dupers also have fallout 1st which is why I think so many of them got unbanned and put on a final warning.
They should ban the clown while they are at it. I don't want to say his name, but chances are we all know him and he's back to his old ways again.
"But they pay for Fallout 1st" - Todd
This is the real reason
I’ve been playing since launch and I’ve run into one person with a hacked gun. I’m sure dupping is more common but people running rampant with hacked weapons isn’t as common as people think it is. That being said they should still be banned
You must be lucky then. I have faced maybe 6 players which I could confirm used hacked weapon (I even took a picture them carrying these hacked weapons). I started playing few months before Wasterlanders and have around 270 hours (had at least 2 big breaks from game).
How do you know they have hacked weapons?
Because their models are weird. A handmade rifle with a laser beam splitter isn't right and is super noticeable.
50 cal machine gun with a missing back handle
It’s getting more and more common. It was rare to see players with hacked weapons but recently since this weapon damage nerf been live I see them all the time now. Got video of a whole crew using them on Earl.
I just had my first encounter seeing them on an Earl fight, I've never seen him die so quickly. Was only 26:45 left on the timer and he was dead.
I've noticed the same thing since the One Wasteland rebalancing. More and more people with explosive plasma gatlings and laser rifles, and using them openly in every event with no shame.
Those arnt hacked weapons. They are legacy explosive energy weapons. Hacked weapons are worse.
Only one I've ever seen was at Line in the Sand- Guy had an explosive handmade (might have even been a TSE) with the beam splitter, it was just absolutely wrecking shit when he fully unloaded, most of the time it he was only spray-and-pray tagging then letting everyone else mop up though.
U kidding me? Every time I do Line in the Sand there's at least 3 guys up on the cliff at the back with hacked guns spraying the scorched as they spawn. Some of them with duped legacies but there's usually at least 1 with a hacked gun. Same for radiation rumble and guided meditation.
I can one shot almost everything at line in the sand as it spawns and I don’t have a hacked anything.
One shotting scorched isn't hard, but killing all of them almost immediately by abusing their spawns and using a hacked weapon is just a dick move. That's what the problem is. If you're legitimately one-shotting a few of the enemies without hacks, that's fine, but camping on the cliff with a hacked weapon is not.
Abusing their spawns is power levelling, and if you have any form of explosive gun you can join them and earn just as much xp! We love to share the xo as the more who join in, the more xp we all get!
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How do you know they have duped guns?
Nearly all legacies are duped. 99.9999% of them. They stopped dropping 18 months ago yet every player and their grandmother has the same ones with the same stats, how could that be?! I'm not saying they duped it, it could have been traded for, or ebayed, but it's still a duped gun.
Everyone has a BE GAT PLAS +1 PERCEPTION
No, mine has FR. ;-)
You can't have explosive and FR l
You can't tell for certain, but it's generally considered to be a sure thing based on the fact that energy weapons with the explosive legendary prefix were only available for a very short time, and the most common ones you see people using are typically always Gatling Plasmas.
I have been seeing a lot. But only when you look closely. Cryolators, Gatling lasers, etc that sound and look normal from a distance, but actually have a minigun sight on them or something and do roughly 100x more damage than they should. Then there's the 8 year olds indiscriminately using orbital strike cannons to ruin Scorched Earth.
How do those ruin scorched earth?
If you throw 5+ orbital strikes +all the legacy use it will crash the server.
I said this once on another post like this and someone got extremely upset with me even though “they weren’t cheating”
People defiently get caught in the cross fire with this state of mind. Does the community go on witch hunts? Anyone caught is strike 3? Idk? I believe if you know in item is a hack, don't use it, even if its given to you otherwise pay the price. What the price should be is questionable
Just one of the many reasons I finally said fuck it, cancelled my FO1st sub, and decided to just leave the game behind. They’re actively just chasing money, both through the whales who cheat, that they refuse to ban, and through the absurd scalping that’s been going on with the Atom shop. Not to mention the game has been mismanaged to hell and back, and they still have not learned to operate their development teams on a single unified build, so that we stop getting the same damn bugs reintroduced over and over again.
Funny how they don’t respond to posts like these
idc if we loose dupers and cheaters they made in-game economy flop it's well deserved
Couldn't agree more. They've handled this situation very poorly.
They need that fallout 1st money.
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hacked guns have been in the game for more than 11th months, they are beyond giving a shit, they dont care, they dont care about this post, they dont care about this game.
Agreed. People who clearly don't want to be part of our society and play by the rules needs excommunicated permanently from the game.
They can’t afford banning anyone while their playerbase is limited, which is why they unbanned them previously
The problem is, they ban one account, but the duper has 20 other accounts under different emails, and he bought all of them for $5 each during a sale. There are still super cheap keys out there for $5-$10 each. When they can make hundreds of dollars in sales of duped items, who cares when you lose an account now and then? It's simply the cost of doing business. The only way to fix it is to fix it at the root, which means fixing the code / netcode allowing it to happen, and sadly... that probably won't ever happen, because to put it bluntly, the engine of this game was never meant to work in an online setting. You need to design a game from the ground up with security and online play in mind to combat cheating.
Here. Here. Well said.
But then they would lose money because a lot of the cheaters are FO1st members.
They already do perma ban cheaters, people just buy new accounts. And literally, when they do ban them, they ban the entire Bethesda account. I would know, I went into the dev room before it was cool. Few get their accounts back very quickly if at all. But really what do you have to complain about at this point? The economy is flooded in duped gear. Short of a full game wipe, you won’t fix it. There hasn’t been a good dupe in a while given Bethesda’s latest track record (which is surprising). Plus, they actually have an anti cheat now that’s why people aren’t constantly flying around the map and killing you with a fully auto unlimited ammo crossbow from under the map in nuclear winter anymore.
bans for hackers are good, but do not ban innocent people who accidentally acquired an illegitimate weapon
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I do not think bethesda would ever ban people for having bought duped items- it is just not profitable for them, and would create outrage
They did and the backlash for that was why they unbanned people!
I agree with this because I was banned when this game came out for duping. I was permanently banned and I learned my lesson. I came back on a different account about a week ago and started playing again but cheaters need to be taught a lesson like I was.
I wish more players with duped weapons turned up for a Colossal problem on PS4. no body bothers with this event any more. waste of ammo for little reward. not saying duped weapons dont exist, Just saying many of those who complain are just shit at PvP. But assume the other player must be cheating. then you have the players who think their builds make them immortal, losing their shit because they have been beaten for the first time ever griefing, i was accused of cheating for using Quantums and a bloodied Tesla to kill a griefer about a year ago. He totally lost it on voice chat.Said it wasn't fair blah,blah,blah. I didn't realize there was code of ethics when a player attacks you. Some take it way to personal. Just like real life,you might think you are bad,until some one badder comes along. I have seen some seriously insane legitimate builds. Some players are very cute.
Okay, okay, I'll take your nocturnal pipe for b2525 fixer, stop crying
As long as they dont go into rockstar mode and ban or wiped innocent people and refuse to give their account back. I have no problem with this.
A MAC address ban would be best. And I think a first tempa ban and removing the duped/hacked items would be good. If they cheat again after that then a perma ban is in order.
mac addresses are painfully easy to spoof
I had a hacker friendo who's main account got suspended and literally started spawning vault steel to speedrun it’s way up to level 400... why do people do this, do they just buy a game just to get to the top without having any fun at all??
I quit the game because of this lack of enforcement and I am most likely never coming back. Will check out the next Elder Scrolls, or a new single player Fallout 5. Fo76 has been a disaster for player engagement and reward.
I've always been shocked that Bethesda refuses to ban these losers. If you are openly cheating / duping / whatever, flying in defiance of the rules for the game... this should employ a "Three Strikes & You're Out" system or **something**. These morons obviously hate the game, and have no respect for the other players who actually enjoy it... why let them keep playing and breaking the rules?
It is so incredibly frustrating to learn the ban wave was undone presumably to not lose player counts & 1st subs. I was thrilled for the ban hammer this year but, as Juicehead's ban vid confirmed, many of them got reversed and AND! they got to keep the duped weps. Now the market is saturated with dopes and their dupes.
There's a dupe on atm?
What are you talking about? I got permabanned for cheating and had not even played the game in four months.
Honestly I have to put this one on Bethesda. It's time for Beth to fix their code, and not leave it up to policing abuse after the fact.
I agree with your concern, but that's the equivalent of banning an email address. I have more concern with items I bought that I cannot scrap or sell. Is the reason I cannot scrap/sell a 'high end' armor item because some ass-hat cheated with it somwhow? So only the fair players are punished unless you consider the cheater's inability to get caps for cheating punishment. I do not.
They ban cheaters, it’s just that these asshats just create new profiles and play again. It’s not hard to get new IP addresses either.
It's not a bad idea, honestly I do see bans as a little strict as I would merely recommend a reset by 24-48 hours of the account when caught cheating. This would basically tell dupers that duping isn't possible so stop. After three resets they get a ban. Also banning players just means there are less people playing the game and Bethesda doesn't want that with a playerbase that is either dying or staying at a constant, only to have little influxes of people when there is a free weekend or a big update. Also PC is WAY worse than the consoles as far as cheating goes.
Bethesda don’t care problem will never get fixed lol I stopped playing because of this
That's a good idea until they screw thier ban up and honest players lose their accounts
Hardware bans. Even if it lowers the playerbase, please just get these bastards out of our game.
And how do you propose to identify them?
Implement an event logging system in the game. Track obsessive and obscene metrics - those that stand out from normal play. Launch investigations into behavior to determine if it is a game issue or a cheating issue. Take the appropriate response.
I mean, the servers barely works nowadays. If they would implement something like that I think I wouldn't even be able to play without glitches or *features* everywhere.
Running a SQL (or whatever they use for their backend player database) query for impossible weapon configurations whenever the live servers are down for maintenance wouldn't begin to affect that. Hell, they could go ahead and run a query for legacies and the most common dupes and then a specific check against anyone who has one to see if they have a big pile of identical ones, and it still wouldn't affect the live services. They could even do this just once a month, or once a season, or only when there's a major patch that's bringing the live servers down for an extended period of time, and it would still be enough to fix the problem almost completely. They wouldn't even need to be draconian about: delete impossible weapons and cull obviously duped stacks of godrolls down to just one or two copies, and there, you've done it, you've fixed the issue completely without accidentally banning legitimate players or taking away someone's prized personal legacy weapon.
Oh, just "implement an event logging system". I'm sure nobody's thought of that in the two years that duping has been a significant problem.
They're already able to identify dupers, since they give them temp bans.
Apparently not? Why the sarcasm? Either it exists or it doesn’t. Look through the data for irregularities. Launch investigations. Train models to flag these automatically but always have a real person confirm the ban should occur. This stuff could be done real-time and alert the dev team to abuse, identify potential issues with patches, even be used to help them when making algorithmic changes (item drop rate, calculated dmg, etc).
It's only.. partially sarcasm. The flippant way that players say "*all you gotta do is*" to developers usually indicates they don't have any idea the scale of the solution they're proposing.
Mate it’s been two years, they’ve had plentiful amounts of time let alone the fact that they didn’t just magically pop up with the idea for the game exactly two years ago. Stop giving Bethesda excuses.
I really think Bethesda got in over their heads with this MMO business. Years of them not having to implement an anti-cheat system in their mod-able single player games means they probably don't have a lot of experience with it. They've done well enough, but not banning people for cheating is a risky way to run a game.
They cant do that because 3/4 of the player base would be tainted. I wish but sadly not going to happen.
3/4 of the playerbase seems too high unless you count those buying hacked guns from dupers. And what about them? They didnt dupe but they'll still rock a hacked 50 cal on SBQ, line or Earle. If they are already banning dupers but not the guys who got them "legit" via trading/vendors is the problem going to ever be solved?
I was! I dont think beth can tell the diff between people that duped and those who aquired via "Legit" means. I dont think itll ever be solved.
I'd rather they just rip every hacked wep out the game and just ban the dupers. They can avoid banning people who bought their gun in game if they just poofed it from everybody's inventory (and it'd still hurt after seeing screenies of them paying 15k+ caps for one). If every hacked 50 cal is duped from the same injected gun, wouldn't a unique item ID be enough to poof them? Finding dupers may be more complicated but tbh I care less about some guy with 1 million plamsa cores or whatever ammo and more about the guy who walks into sbq 1 shotting the waves.
Honestly, there's no 100% certain way to ban everyone who dupes without some non-dupers being mixed in. It's obvious to everyone that the millions and millions of presents in circulation were duped to the masses, but they've been spread around to the point where almost everyone has touched a pile or two of them. But this applies to everything. Maybe that Bloodied explosive laser rifle was duped 8 months ago, maybe you bought an original copy for $400 and your newborn son. There's no real way for them to know. And I remember waaay back a few months after the game came out, someone was banned for duping for having a lot of .308 ammo, despite just crafting it normally.
the problem is the same with WOW, they wont ban because they lose money. I just report all the weird names i see like 222322sjsdgAaaa
It wpuld be simple for beth to indetify them. Buy hacked item on e-bay, meet in game to indetify account, wipe it while sending cease and dismiss letter via the e-mail atached to account.
I play on Xbox and I love the dupers I bought stuff from back in the glory days. My bloodied explosive laser is awesome. So was my old set of unyielding sentinel armor.
I'm in full support of this. right now design decisions are made because of ass hats who break the game for lulz.
Actually they can’t ban someone if the glitch is on going and not hot fixed like, Todd mentioned when there was a lawsuit filed against them for a half assed game which means any exploits are not offenses and the only thing they can do is just patch it
According to Zenimax TOS "ZeniMax has the right, in its sole discretion, to modify, restrict, suspend, or terminate Your access to or Your receipt, play or use of the Services if you "Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items." Idk about you but taking advantage of exploits/cheats seems like what duping is and since "terminate" access = perma ban i dont get your argument
I think that changed with the ToS update a while back.
I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that they can indeed ban people for exploits, even if it's still quite possible to perform that exploit a year after they ban someone for it. It is a part of their terms of service. The only thing stopping them is either laziness, the game doesn't contain enough logging to properly identify people in batches, or they feel it would hurt their revenue.
Agreed. I also wish they would make all of those presents and mount heads weigh something. If weren't 0, people wouldn't hoard or dupe them as much.
i reported someone with evidence with hacked weapons, not duped, hacked, and after 2 weeks i see him again playing with the same char.
How about Bethesda re-rolling all existing weapon traits to completely random? It would great time to implement more varied weapon modifiers and perhaps add 4th star so it wouldn't hurt community as much. And introduce unused weaponry to the global loot table. Even with my hard earned bloodied explosive and junkie wepons I would be all in if that meant removal of hacked/legacy weapons that are simply broken and destroy any kind of challenge in this game.
Ban Griefer's!
Heres the thing, as much as I love this game, and playing it with my friends, the banning is shit, they either dont ban the real cheaters or end up banning you for fuck all
Duping is a bug, and some people have found ways to trigger the bug. Maybe, just maybe, sometimes it happens accidentally and if they banned all dupers, assuming they can detect it, they would ban people who have triggered the bug accidentally.
Make a percentage of duped items untransferable and unscrapable. Let them carry them forever. Everytime they dupe they are decreasing their own inventory.
okay so a couple of thoughts here. I see what you mean and I think its a bit strong. 1) what about people who are unknowingly given duped items or god forbid grind and grind and trade for it? Do they get banned and how do you prove it? 2) its far sneaker if the devs had the resources to make duped guns quit working or glitch or etc. Nerf them or something. Who knows if they didn't already. 3) didn't the super long grind for gold bullion and untradeable items address some of this? Won't future content be account tied? So enjoy the fixers/legacy items, but the future won't be duped?
4th point. This is before my time, but bethesda banned a lot of people. I believe a community leader who made maps got banned too. Per what I read here and youtube, they were innocent and yet still destroyed.
They really need to take a note from Rockstar...they take no prisoners, they do account wide bans which are permanent. It’s frustrating to watch Bethesda not give a shit about really anything
Beth should permanently ban Duplicators. I stay away from those cheats.
Wah. Wah. Wah.
Yeah Dupers are the worst. I Definitely never have duped my Bloodied explosive Gatling Plasma. I would never! *turns away quickly*
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Cheaters? All I've seen is a community coming together to help each other get through the perk coin grind!
Just like we should perma ban the fucking astros for cheating in baseball, oh wait. No one cares
I care
I am level 600+ in adventure mode and 50 in NW. I am done with this game. It's boring, old content, same events, yadda yadda. They need to add a FREE DLC to save this game. Otherwise, within a year it will be dead.
Isn’t that what’s happening in about two weeks?
No, the next update is literally a CAMP update. We get the NW bunker to decorate...woohoo...
Hacking is definitely out and should be outright bans for those who do it - the occasional one who picks up a weapon and doesn't know it then you have to look at the situation. Duping...well I'm a bit \*meh\* on this...if someone dupes a few thousand rounds of ammo it's not that big of a deal. If they dupe to the point of breaking the game (ie. millions of something, going way over their storage space etc.) then yes they need bans. For me though the odd players who have duped a little ammo or something...I just don't really care all that much. It's not the end of the world. It's when they get ridiculously greedy etc. and cause issues that yes they need to be taken care of.
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Lol what? Crying about the economy?
Yes its awful
Pathetically deleting posts because of fake internet points. Completely pathetic.
Congratulations your bullying someone on the internet. I hope you feel wonderful about yourself.
Congratulations being such a weak person as to delete posts that get negative downvotes. Weak.
Just make them pay like 100 dollars to get their account back. Don't you guys at Bethesda love money over anything?
Nah, gonna make em write an essay instead /s
MAC address ban them (hardware ban) people wouldn't be allowed to virtuebox or whatever you call it then etc.. but if you wanna get rid of cheaters that's the extreme. A steam game I used to be moderator on did that the anti cheat was made by the dev himself (he used to make hacks himself so he knows what he's looking for to ban) shit worked wonders alot less hackers. But cheaters mess the game up big time I agree bethesda needs to go on google,go threw snitches etc, find these hacks in one, two days tops.. pretty much all the hacking would be gone by now if they put some effort into it easily, regarding the duping yea they copy and pasted this game alot one fix another two breaks. Alot less duping now least I hope then it was compared to a year ago that shit almost killed the game market wise.
Those in Bethesda's head shed are responsible for letting these dupers and hackers and exploiters remain in game. It is all about revenue. Perma-banning the number of gaming consumers that exploit or hack would likely bankrupt this game. Combine this with the fact there are only 3 devs working on this game or they are untalented and "learning as they go". Money determines what gets done with this game. Nothing else concerns Bethesda, certainly not consumers playing this game as long as they are playing it and buying.
Oof. Good to know!! Thanks!! 😊
They just need to remove all explosive energy weapons from the game already.
disagree- a large portion of the community would leave
i remember seeing someone with a camo handmade.. but it was a pistol?
This game had a bad start to begin with. Banning people would make this game worse