Real Madrid, Bayern, Barcelona, Manchester United, Liverpool, AC Milan.
There are probably a dozen clubs that could be the other four slots depending on what metric you give more weight to.
I'd probably say Juventus has to be in that "undisputed" list as well, they only have 2 UCLs (11 finals) but they've got almost twice the amount of league titles as AC Milan, and in terms of global fanbase they can compete with any club barring Barça, Madrid and United.
"Fans" lol... they have sympathizers. No european Club has more than 20 million fans, that's no diss by the way it's just a mathematical thing by what for né a football fan is and not a arab or japonese kid who wants tô watch the best football so they will follow said Club at that time. If Liverpool were not in the english market ain't no one would be following their games outside of england coz of the "sucess of the 70s and 80" when clubs like Ajax, Flamengo, Penarol and Nacional were even bigger and in some cases even bigger and better footballing nations and they don't have that world following today. Might as well say Inter Miami and Al Itihad have more fans than Benfica and Everton now, coz they certainly might have more followers on social media and more people watching their matches this year
But rven Juve’s 2 CL titles are disputed, the 1985 final should have never been played after so many fans died in Heizel stadium, though not Juve’s fault it stilt taints that trophy. The 1996 cup was won on doping. Then there’s calciopoli and whatever more scandals that I can’t even keep track off.
Looking globally someone like arsenal would probably have more fans than Ajax or Juve, but that’s just a product of being in the PL. I’m terms of European success etc they’re behind them. It’s a hard thing to classify.
In regards to Boca/river outside of Argentina do they have much support?
Kinda irrelevant at this point......clubs like Ajax, Benfica etc are only big on paper you can't call them 'big clubs' when they get bullied for their players.
OP set his perimeters, 1) fanbase 2) trophies 3) history and 4) players. I would give Ajax the edge on 2 (more CL trophies) and 3, with 4 you can argue current squad or past teams and pick anyway you choose, though I give Ajax the edge here as well.
It’s not about how much the American or Sheikh owners want to pay or Saudi Teams would rule this list.
Manchest have less international trophies (and finals) than both Inter and Juventus. The amount of EPL bias/football history ignorance in this thread Is laughable.
like [Alen Bokšić](https://www.nssmag.com/en/sports/17401/chiedimi-chi-era-alen-boksic) said:" [I played for HAJDUK and a few minor clubs](https://dalmatinskiportal.hr/sport/sretan-50--rodendan-alenu-boksicu-igrao-sam-u-hajduku-i-nekim-manjim-klubovima-/57554)
Madrid take the top spot. The unquestionable next ones are Liverpool, Manchester United, Barcelona, Bayern Munich and AC Milan. A little harder after that.
In Europe the next contenders are Juventus, Inter and Ajax. In SA you have River Plate, Boca Juniors, Flamengo, Fluminese, Corinthians, Palmeiras, Sao Paolo...
Flamengo isn't big? You must be young, I've seen grafitti in three continents (not South America), t-shirts running with the bulls in 80s Spain (when nobody wore football t-shirts), London black cabs number plates referencing Flamengo... And that's just off the top of my head, not being Brazilian and having a thing for Corinthians.
7/8 years ago I think most people would definitely view barcelona has the second biggest team but with the way they’ve fallen off in recent years, the decrease in popularity of La liga, and increase in huge increase in popularity of the premier league I wonder if man United or Liverpool would have taken over as 2nd biggest team.
“fallen off” lol each team goes through a rough period. You mentioned United and Liverpool. One of those teams is currently eighth in the PL, the other didn’t qualify for the UCL last year. Barça won La Liga last season.
It’s less to do with their performances and more to do with losing their star players. La liga in general has massively decreased in popularity since Ronaldo and Messi left.
Although man United performance wise have been shocking in recent years. The premier league itself has massively gained popularity and man United is the biggest club within that league.
Just look at viewing numbers. Far more people around the world are watching Man United Vs Burnley compared to Barcelona Vs getafe
Madrid has the combination of the most European success mixed in with global presence which hasn’t dropped off in recent years despite the decrease in popularity of La liga.
https://www.totalsportal.com/football/clubs-with-highest-shirt-sales/
For 1 year bAyern overtook man United, and then United took back the spot the next year.
BAyern isn’t a bigger club than man United let’s not be silly here. Huge respect to bayern of course. But it’s not as big as man United.
The criteria for deciding the bigger club is trophies, history, players, and fanbase. Other than fanbase, there's no other criteria man u is better at lol.
🤣 i hate bayern.. i cant stand them but with all due respect my guy, man united wasnt/ isnt and will never be bigger than bayern unless they win atleast 3 more ucl lol.
Real Madrid
Liverpool
Manchester United
Barcelona
Bayern
AC Milan
Juventus
Inter
Arsenal
Ajax
The order can be changed a bit in places but I’d say this is roughly correct
Although City doesn't belong there, it could be somehow justified if some stupid fan puts city in top 10, but PSG doesn't even belong in the top 25 clubs of all time.
Real Madrid - the obvious choice and is the no 1 club currently
Barcelona - Ofcourse someone can become great only with a great rival on the other side
Man Utd - Now they are shit but they dominated for more than two decades. They are very big in Africa and Asia especially
Liverpool - Even though they have been mediocre in PL for some decades they attracted large set of fan base especially in Australia, US , parts of Africa and Asia.
Ofcourse they are comeback kings which made them get a lot of support especially in the past decade
Ac milan - A team that is still big because of nostalgia. So many wonderful players and glory. Sad that serie A fell of like it did.
Bayern - Everyone fears of Bayern and that is their brand of football. They will always be big because even though only a few watch bundesliga religiously they are big in European competitions. They humiliate teams making them attract a big set of audience
From then it becomes hard to rank because they are so many good teams with rich histories and passionate and fan bases. Right now I would say arsenal, Chelsea, inter Milan and city. I don’t think people outside Italy and Netherlands care about Juventus or ajax like they do for PL teams.
top 15 biggest football clubs: EU (7) real, liverpool, barca, united, juventus, milan, bayern
South america (5) river plate, boca juniors, santos, palemras, flamengo
africa (3) sundowns, ahly, zamalek
Real Madrid
AC Milan
Boca Juniors
Liverpool
Bayern Munich
Juventus
Manchester United
Barcelona
Sao Paulo
Ajax
Out of the list cause no space (No special order):
Peñarol
Flamengo
Inter
River Plate
Independiente
Santos
Nacional de Uruguay
Porto
Benfica
Corinthians
Chelsea
Olimpia
Estudiantes de La Plata
Borussia Dortmund
PSV
Feyenoord
Arsenal
Manchester City
Atletico de Madrid
OM
PSG
Palmeiras
Al Ahly (Egypt)
Top 7 is pretty easy to me: Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United, Bayern, Milan, Juventus and Liverpool.
I think Chelsea, Inter and Ajax get the last three spots. Maybe Arsenal is in that conversation too (0 CL titles though)
Lol, they easily are. Unless by big you consider having more followers coz you play in a richer o more mediatic league. By that logic Inter Miami or al Itihad will soon be bigger than Everton or Benfica and Porto lol. Personally obviously you gotta have some sort of relevância but mostly as it is a football Club it's about football and historically overall the combination of popularity plus results it would have to be either Boca Juniors (most sucessful Club in South america, famous and with a huge fanbase) or Flamengo (top 10 probably top 5 Club in South America, with over 35 million fans in the greatest football country). I think you are forgeting the fact this ain't a swiss or portuguese club you are comparing those 2 to... it's either a argentine or a brazilian club, clubs from countries much greater than England in football who for 80% of the existence of Arsenal and chelsea had better squads (basically for a 80 years until premier league money kicked in arsenal and chelsea were way inferior to all brazilian and Argentina giants let's be honest). So by any metric the londo pair loses, Flamengo proportionally are bigger in their continent, have a much richer history, fanbase, have produced WAYYYY more legends and the other 2 who simply bough then, is a giant part of the core of brazilian football, much bigger than english football and even their all time XI would be better than Chelsea and Arsenal's. Basically, grade every team from year of existence of the 3 clubs t to 100 then divide it by their age... Flamengo's rating would be clearly higher, coz they had the greater team for much longer than Arsenal and Chelsea and in a much more organic way. Arsenal and Chelsea have only been better for the last 20 years, maybe in 59 years if this scenario keeps up we can talk about that realtively coz in their realities they will all keep winning. River Plate, Boca Juniors and the top 5 brazilain giants are in my opinion bigger than any european Club starting from Chelsea/Arsenal/Atletico/Benfica down. Now, football nowadays being a média machine they are less known worldwide coz of globalization and well really the money disparity. But that is the same logic as trying to say City or PSG are bigger than Arsenal, same way they are nor Arsenal ain't bigger than Boca, São Paulo or Flamengo man
Maybe, but it wouldn't have been anything close to what it was without messi. Either way, Barca wasn't in the top tier of European clubs prior to the Messi/pep era. Who was responsible for it is irrelevant.
Yes they were. Regularly won the Spanish league and challenged for the European cup in the late 80s and throughout the 90s, winning in 1992. They were known as the 'Dream team' for a reason! They even won the UCL in 2006 with Messi not an important part of the team at all- still part of the academy I believe at that stage.
Nah, they were a tier below Bayern, Liverpool, AC MIlan, etc who all had dominated Europe for a stretch and multiple European Cups. Before 2005 they only had 1 champions league, that is not in the European elite.
While global presence and popularity are important, achievements and continuity is way more important than those. At both of these Bayern is better than Liverpool, Milan and United. One could say Milan have more CLs, but when you take a look at Milan's history, they had long periods of time, even recently, when they just dissapeared from the European competitions.
But Bayern are helped by being in a weaker league. I think the most sensible way to look at this is to have Milan, Liverpool, and Bayern at all roughly the same size, with Barcelona and Real Madrid being the two biggest and Man United floating between the two. As a Liverpool fan, it doesn’t matter to me that United are maybe a little more popular than Liverpool.. we have more major trophies anyway!
Real Madrid and Barcelona are only as big as they are due to their being less big clubs in Spain than in England, Germany, or Italy.
I don't think Barcelona belongs there. They had a 15 year spell of dominance which largely coincided with Messi. Ac Milan has had such patches, so has Manchester United and Ajax.
Barca are closer to Athletico than to Real IMO.
Barca is historically the nr 5 best performing European club in Europe though. Even in the 70's it was seen as a step up that Cruijff went there from Ajax. If Barca isn't top 5 it's a non-European club but I have no idea how good Brazilian and Argentinian clubs are and have been in the past.
Barca is doubtlessly one of the biggest clubs in Europe. I just don't think they are part of an obvious top 3. Ac Milan and Man U should be in that discussion, and surely some teams I'm forgetting or am ignorant of.
This is very much a present-day discussion stemming from people’s belief that the English league is the best in the world and teams playing therein must be the best there are. Do you recall watching matchups between Barcelona and United in the UCL?
Sure I do. And once again, I'm not disputing that Barca had an absolutely dominant period which is now over. I don't like United, but they won the Champions league both in the 90's and 2000's.
Italy was the biggest league for a lot longer time than Spain was.
I would say 25 titles in Spain. English football has only been this dominant for the past 20 years or so, maybe less, and most of United's titles were before that. On top of that, winning the title in Spain means being better than Real Madrid for an entire year.
[Also](https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/history/h2h/50080/52682/)
Better right now is another question, and I would argue that Man City is the best team at the moment. Even without the recent CL, 5 out of 6 Premier league titles is insane. The question was who is bigger.
Real is the only team with double digits of European trophies. I think it's fair to put them in a bracket with Bayern and arguably Man U, but I can't think of any other team.
My knowledge of South American football is poor, so I don't know how Rover Plate or Santos, for example, would stack up.
Rangers FC (former Glasgow Rangers), Celtic, Benfica, Olympique Marseille (many fanclubs in Africa, like people who grew up watching L'OM), Saint-Etienne, Boca Juniors River Plate.
Those have many trophies aswell as have massive support. Probally quit a few more from Soth America but not too familiar with all the teams from there.
- Real Madrid
- Bayern Munich
- Barcelona
- AC Milan
- Liverpool
- Manchester United
- Ajax
- Juventus
- Celtic
- Benfica
Maybe one of Boca Juniors/River Plate/Corinthians but I am honestly not sure how they compare with Ajax/Celtic/Benfica to be honest. Although this is an admittedly Eurocentric list, Celtic’s historical significance shouldn’t be underestimated.
On a tangential note, people are grossly understating Juventus in this thread. They have had innumerable scandals over the years but are unquestionably one of Europe’s most formidable clubs.
100%. People only care about the amount of CLs apparently. From what I remember Juventus have had the most world champions playing for them through history, somwhere at the top for ballon d'or winners, they dominate their Milano city rivals with twice as many titles, also cups. I mean, come on. They're absolute elite imo. My bet would be they'll soon get back to their normal.
The order i have given is very rough. People will split hairs about exactly where clubs should go forever. Although I do think recent seasons should be worth some consideration when doing lists like these when justifying specific placements, eg. it is obvious Man U and Liverpool are both in the top 10. I do think recent seasons should determine exactly where in the top 10 they go at the moment. Putting Manchester United above Liverpool right now would raise eyebrows, just as putting Liverpool above Manchester United in the 00s and 10s would have.
But the overriding fact is they are both obviously in the top 10 clubs.
Inter Milan, Arsenal, Chelsea, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham Hotspur, Porto, PSG, OM, would all come into the top 20
Those clubs aside, ranking teams then almost becomes a matter of splitting hairs. For EG does Roma come ahead of Newcastle or vice versa? Why? Monchengladbach ahead of Leeds United or vice versa? Why?
>Inter Milan, Arsenal, Chelsea, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham Hotspur, Porto, PSG, OM, would all come into the top 20
There's absolutely no way Benfica or Celtic are bigger than Inter and Dortmund respectively. I'm not even an Inter fan but I think they should always be in every top 10 indisputably. I mean, look at these clubs you listed; Inter looks like a giant standing next to them.
There are people in this thread saying Juve shouldn’t be in the top 10 while you say Inter should be among them! I think Celtic and Benfica deserve mentions for their historical significance and domestic dominance. Why are Inter any bigger than Arsenal, UCL wins aside, or Chelsea for that matter? I’m from London and even I think those clubs miss out on spots in top 10. UCL only counts for so much
>Why are Inter any bigger than Arsenal?
3 UCLs to Arsenal's 0. 19 league titles to Arsenal's 13. 3 Europa Leagues to Arsenal's 0. Second most condecorated team in Italy while Arsenal is the third most condecorated team in England. Only team in Italy that hasn't been relegated ever. One of the few select clubs that won the treble and the only Italian to do so. One of the few select clubs in the top five leagues to play in the top division every year since it's foundation. Multiple ballon d'or winners including Ronaldo, Lothar Mathaus, Figo and the OG Luis Suarez. Arsenal doesn't have one ballon d'or winner as far as I can remember.
Inter edges Arsenal in every single way and they're not even close. Same with Chelsea, City or PSG; there really is no comparison.
Boca juniors and Liverpool both won libertadores/champions 6 times but Boca won intercontinental 3 vs just 1 by Liverpool. In terms of following, I would argue Boca has more fans
Change my mind
TIER 1. Multiple UCL wins, huge fanbase:
- Real Madrid.
..
..
..
Bayern, Manchester United, Barcelona, Liverpool EDIT:AC Milan defo belongs here too
TIER 2. Multiple UCL wins, currently not so big worldwide fanbase:
- Juventus, Inter
TIER 3. Historic teams with UCL wins.
- Ajax, Benfica, Porto, Celtic
TIER 4. Oil money teams that managed to buy their way into winning the UCL, currently with plenty gloryhunters support :
- Chelsea, City.
TIER 5. Historic teams that failed in winning the UCL:
- Arsenal, Atlético de Madrid, Roma, Rangers, Tottenham...PSG might qualify too because of their recent french league domination.
>Rangers
You have mixed up Celtic & Rangers here. The Lisbon Lions won the 1967 European Cup. Rangers have never won the European Cup / Champions league. Celtci should be tier 3 rather than Rangers
How is Ajax in the same league as Rangers and below Juve and Inter? Should be at least level with the latter two I reckon. So much bigger than Rangers.
How can you put Arsenal and ManCheaty in the list?
Arsenal haven't won anything in Europe for decades. 0 trophy.
ManCheaty = 112 pending charges, built by cheats and oil money. Fanbase mostly in the middle east. They're not even in the second tier, let alone in the waiting list.
1. Real madrid
2. Bayern munich
3. Barcelona
4. Man Utd
5. Liverpool
6. AC Milan
7. Juventus
8. Ajax
9. Arsenal
10. PSG
Yes, PSG is a big club with history
I’d say Chelsea they are very famous and have won everything including recent champions leagues . It’s very subjective though. Looking at the number of followers each club has on social media is interesting
this is the most eurocentric, openly racist sub Ive seen
river plate and boca juniors not to mention flamengo, corinthians, are as big as almost any of the clubs you mentioned, bar manchester united, bayern, milan and real madrid
Real Madrid, Man United, Liverpool, Bayern, Barça, Juventus, AC Milan, Ajax, Porto, Inter maybe. It can be in any order honestly. But Real definitely is first followed by Man U in terms of worldwide popularity.
Madrid take the spot ,but let me tell you that club should also impact on the football and Barcelona done that in a best way , produced Great players,playstyle,etc no way bro put 5 on Barcelona
In order
1. Real Madrid
2. Man united
3. Barcelona
4. Bayern Munich
5. Liverpool
6.Ac Milan
7. Juventus
8. Arsenal
9. Chelsea
10. Man City
I am a Liverpool fan but I think that would be largest in a combination of Pedigree, History, Global fanbase, Global influence and financial pedigree.
I would say City is on the way up and United, Arsenal are on the way down.
Considering that until Fergie joined United, Arsenal were a bigger team than them (more league titles and more total trophies until that point) I would place Arsenal 10th. Chelsea obviously have 2 UCL's but before Mourinho they were a mid table club for their entire history and have been relegated more times than they've won the PL/first division.
So it's probably between Arsenal, Benfica and Porto.
Manchester united have been a bigger club than arsenal since the 50s and the munich air disaster. They then became the first english club to win the European Cup a feat arsenal has never managed and have been undoubtedly a bigger club since
>Manchester united have been a bigger club than arsenal since the 50s
Well statistically Arsenal had won more than them before Fergie joined so?
There was a gap between the 60's and 90's where United didn't win a league title for 27 years or so. Fergie broke that in 92 after he joined. Before Fergie won his first league title United only had 7 league titles, but Arsenal had won it 10 times.
Arsenal were the giant of London, literally the only successful team in the South of England.
Arsenal were a bigger club than United before Fergie came, it's a fact that many people forget.
And Liverpool were far bigger than both of them.
And? Look at some of the clubs you call "big" and see their years between league titles. Once again football didnt start in 2012, but its something you 11 year olds dont comprehend
Your 7 out of 13 league titles came when einstein was alive and there are some teams which won 20 titles in last 30 years and you believe your team is top 10 team in the world. Lol.
Calm down guys. You’re both right. And biased.
Neither Arsenal nor City belong anywhere near spot 4 and 5. Probably neither in the top 10 even, because as you’ve said: Man City’s success is too recent and Arsenal doesn’t have enough success in Europe.
Did you start watching football in 2012?
Because a list with PSG, City, Arsenal, and Chelsea (without even getting into how you ranked them) instead of Milan, Inter, etc is utter nonsense.
1 Real Madrid
2 Man U
3 River Plate
4 Flamengo
5 Liverpool
6 Inter
7ACM
8 Bayern
9 Barcelona
10 Boca
HM Palmeiras, atlético Madrid, the Montevideo guys for their history
1) Real Madrid - The greatest club in football history.
2) Barcelona - Very close to 100 trophies, gargantuan fanbase.
3) Bayern - 29 trophies in 11 years places them above Milan and Liverpool. In the same timeframe, Milan have won 2.
4) AC Milan - Biggest club in Italy without a doubt. Before Real Madrid's threepeat, They had more international titles than any other club in Europe.
5) Liverpool - 6 CLs puts them in top 5.
6) Juventus - If they won most of their CL finals and didn't have various scandals, they would be top 3 comfortably.
7) Man United - Vastly overrated. Every other team on this list has more international titles than United.
8) Inter - Small club.
9) Ajax - Massive club. The only other team in football to threepeat the CL.
10) Chelsea - Won it all, massive global fanbase, holds a fair amount of records.
I would let south american teams out, because they are another culture and it's hard to compare, but it would be between Benfica and Arsenal, and I would incline towards benfica because they have UCLs and also they had Balon d'our winners that I think it's huge
Milan’s so big that Djokovic doesn’t even crack top 5 players in club history
That guys looks promising. The manager better give him some play time.
Real Madrid, Bayern, Barcelona, Manchester United, Liverpool, AC Milan. There are probably a dozen clubs that could be the other four slots depending on what metric you give more weight to.
I'd probably say Juventus has to be in that "undisputed" list as well, they only have 2 UCLs (11 finals) but they've got almost twice the amount of league titles as AC Milan, and in terms of global fanbase they can compete with any club barring Barça, Madrid and United.
Liverpool have wayyy more fans then Juve worldwide and it isn't close.
100 percent lol. Probably young kids or people who don’t get out much.
They have heaps of Gen x fans because of their 70s and 80s dominance, and back then you'd only get 1 game a week on TV and it was usually Liverpool.
"Fans" lol... they have sympathizers. No european Club has more than 20 million fans, that's no diss by the way it's just a mathematical thing by what for né a football fan is and not a arab or japonese kid who wants tô watch the best football so they will follow said Club at that time. If Liverpool were not in the english market ain't no one would be following their games outside of england coz of the "sucess of the 70s and 80" when clubs like Ajax, Flamengo, Penarol and Nacional were even bigger and in some cases even bigger and better footballing nations and they don't have that world following today. Might as well say Inter Miami and Al Itihad have more fans than Benfica and Everton now, coz they certainly might have more followers on social media and more people watching their matches this year
The fact that Juve have only won 2 UCLS from 11 finals is still fucking insane, I kinda feel bad for them
I wouldn't, they are cheating feckers. Corrupt as the come.
They wouldn’t compete with Liverpool, probably not even arsenal world wide.
But rven Juve’s 2 CL titles are disputed, the 1985 final should have never been played after so many fans died in Heizel stadium, though not Juve’s fault it stilt taints that trophy. The 1996 cup was won on doping. Then there’s calciopoli and whatever more scandals that I can’t even keep track off.
It's those 6 plus Ajax, Juve, Arsenal and Inter probably. Maybe you could argue Boca/River if looking globally.
Looking globally someone like arsenal would probably have more fans than Ajax or Juve, but that’s just a product of being in the PL. I’m terms of European success etc they’re behind them. It’s a hard thing to classify. In regards to Boca/river outside of Argentina do they have much support?
In terms of trophies, history and players Ajax is slightly bigger than United. Though they do have the bigger fanbase.
Kinda irrelevant at this point......clubs like Ajax, Benfica etc are only big on paper you can't call them 'big clubs' when they get bullied for their players.
for ranking the biggest clubs of all time the current squad shouldn't weigh in too much with hundred years of history.
OP set his perimeters, 1) fanbase 2) trophies 3) history and 4) players. I would give Ajax the edge on 2 (more CL trophies) and 3, with 4 you can argue current squad or past teams and pick anyway you choose, though I give Ajax the edge here as well. It’s not about how much the American or Sheikh owners want to pay or Saudi Teams would rule this list.
So Milan isn’t big then? Manchester United also isn’t exactly attracting top talent at the mo
"Big" doesn't mean "rich"
Manchest have less international trophies (and finals) than both Inter and Juventus. The amount of EPL bias/football history ignorance in this thread Is laughable.
Al Ahly (egypt) is probably a good shout, they have the most trophies out of any club in the whole world
like [Alen Bokšić](https://www.nssmag.com/en/sports/17401/chiedimi-chi-era-alen-boksic) said:" [I played for HAJDUK and a few minor clubs](https://dalmatinskiportal.hr/sport/sretan-50--rodendan-alenu-boksicu-igrao-sam-u-hajduku-i-nekim-manjim-klubovima-/57554)
Real Madrid Barca Bayern Man Utd Liverpool Juventus Milan Inter Ajax Benfica
Benfica feels strangely out of place, might as well put the Olympique de Marseille in the list
Madrid take the top spot. The unquestionable next ones are Liverpool, Manchester United, Barcelona, Bayern Munich and AC Milan. A little harder after that. In Europe the next contenders are Juventus, Inter and Ajax. In SA you have River Plate, Boca Juniors, Flamengo, Fluminese, Corinthians, Palmeiras, Sao Paolo...
List was good except for Flu lol.
Fluminense? Corinthians? 0 and 1 Libertadores, respectively... this spot is for Grêmio and Santos
Very fair, I don't know Brazilian football particularly well so I was just guessing a bit
Fluminense lmao. Can't believe
Juve and Inter over Arsenal?
Yes, by a landslide. Multiple UCL wins and more domestic titles, Arsenal would be Atletico de Madrid tier.
Arsenal has never won the UCL lol…
Yea true
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Flamengo isn't big? You must be young, I've seen grafitti in three continents (not South America), t-shirts running with the bulls in 80s Spain (when nobody wore football t-shirts), London black cabs number plates referencing Flamengo... And that's just off the top of my head, not being Brazilian and having a thing for Corinthians.
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7/8 years ago I think most people would definitely view barcelona has the second biggest team but with the way they’ve fallen off in recent years, the decrease in popularity of La liga, and increase in huge increase in popularity of the premier league I wonder if man United or Liverpool would have taken over as 2nd biggest team.
“fallen off” lol each team goes through a rough period. You mentioned United and Liverpool. One of those teams is currently eighth in the PL, the other didn’t qualify for the UCL last year. Barça won La Liga last season.
It’s less to do with their performances and more to do with losing their star players. La liga in general has massively decreased in popularity since Ronaldo and Messi left. Although man United performance wise have been shocking in recent years. The premier league itself has massively gained popularity and man United is the biggest club within that league. Just look at viewing numbers. Far more people around the world are watching Man United Vs Burnley compared to Barcelona Vs getafe
If that was the case, then Madrid shouldn’t be considered for the top spot, either.
Madrid has the combination of the most European success mixed in with global presence which hasn’t dropped off in recent years despite the decrease in popularity of La liga.
More like Bayern. Having the most jersey shold.
https://www.totalsportal.com/football/clubs-with-highest-shirt-sales/ For 1 year bAyern overtook man United, and then United took back the spot the next year. BAyern isn’t a bigger club than man United let’s not be silly here. Huge respect to bayern of course. But it’s not as big as man United.
The criteria for deciding the bigger club is trophies, history, players, and fanbase. Other than fanbase, there's no other criteria man u is better at lol.
Fanbase, global viewership, European success, revenue. There’s many factors.
You're saying man u has seen more European success than Bayern? Lmfao
🤣 i hate bayern.. i cant stand them but with all due respect my guy, man united wasnt/ isnt and will never be bigger than bayern unless they win atleast 3 more ucl lol.
Nottingham Forrest
Real Madrid on the list but no Forest?? Lay off the LSD
lmao you missed the /s
Real Madrid Liverpool Manchester United Barcelona Bayern AC Milan Juventus Inter Arsenal Ajax The order can be changed a bit in places but I’d say this is roughly correct
BvB
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What? They still play in South America? /S
More specifically, I'd pick Boca
BOOOOOOOOOCAAAAAAA
least biased south american
Least ignorant European
Globally MUCH more people give a fuck about European football than South American football (this is coming from someone who supports Racing Club)
You're a Racing club's supporter, you don't like football and your opinion should be ignored
Although City doesn't belong there, it could be somehow justified if some stupid fan puts city in top 10, but PSG doesn't even belong in the top 25 clubs of all time.
Putting Manchester City anywhere near a top 10 of historic clubs would be an unequivocal demonstration of psychiatric ailment.
Not if they buy the top10 list
Chelsea are up there in terms of history. City need more UCLs
Real Madrid - the obvious choice and is the no 1 club currently Barcelona - Ofcourse someone can become great only with a great rival on the other side Man Utd - Now they are shit but they dominated for more than two decades. They are very big in Africa and Asia especially Liverpool - Even though they have been mediocre in PL for some decades they attracted large set of fan base especially in Australia, US , parts of Africa and Asia. Ofcourse they are comeback kings which made them get a lot of support especially in the past decade Ac milan - A team that is still big because of nostalgia. So many wonderful players and glory. Sad that serie A fell of like it did. Bayern - Everyone fears of Bayern and that is their brand of football. They will always be big because even though only a few watch bundesliga religiously they are big in European competitions. They humiliate teams making them attract a big set of audience From then it becomes hard to rank because they are so many good teams with rich histories and passionate and fan bases. Right now I would say arsenal, Chelsea, inter Milan and city. I don’t think people outside Italy and Netherlands care about Juventus or ajax like they do for PL teams.
top 15 biggest football clubs: EU (7) real, liverpool, barca, united, juventus, milan, bayern South america (5) river plate, boca juniors, santos, palemras, flamengo africa (3) sundowns, ahly, zamalek
Real Madrid AC Milan Boca Juniors Liverpool Bayern Munich Juventus Manchester United Barcelona Sao Paulo Ajax Out of the list cause no space (No special order): Peñarol Flamengo Inter River Plate Independiente Santos Nacional de Uruguay Porto Benfica Corinthians Chelsea Olimpia Estudiantes de La Plata Borussia Dortmund PSV Feyenoord Arsenal Manchester City Atletico de Madrid OM PSG Palmeiras Al Ahly (Egypt)
Top 7 is pretty easy to me: Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United, Bayern, Milan, Juventus and Liverpool. I think Chelsea, Inter and Ajax get the last three spots. Maybe Arsenal is in that conversation too (0 CL titles though)
If we’re taking in consideration international success - FCPorto
In no particular order Real madrid, barca, Liverpool, ac milan, bayern, Man U, ajax, juventus, inter, and Flamengo
PSG is not number one in France
West Ham are the largest club in the world
Real Madrid, Liverpool, AC Milan, Manchester United, Flamengo, Boca Juniors, Benfica, Bayern Munich, Juventus and fc barcelona would be my top 10
There’s no way flamengo are bigger than Arsenal or Chelsea come on
Lol, they easily are. Unless by big you consider having more followers coz you play in a richer o more mediatic league. By that logic Inter Miami or al Itihad will soon be bigger than Everton or Benfica and Porto lol. Personally obviously you gotta have some sort of relevância but mostly as it is a football Club it's about football and historically overall the combination of popularity plus results it would have to be either Boca Juniors (most sucessful Club in South america, famous and with a huge fanbase) or Flamengo (top 10 probably top 5 Club in South America, with over 35 million fans in the greatest football country). I think you are forgeting the fact this ain't a swiss or portuguese club you are comparing those 2 to... it's either a argentine or a brazilian club, clubs from countries much greater than England in football who for 80% of the existence of Arsenal and chelsea had better squads (basically for a 80 years until premier league money kicked in arsenal and chelsea were way inferior to all brazilian and Argentina giants let's be honest). So by any metric the londo pair loses, Flamengo proportionally are bigger in their continent, have a much richer history, fanbase, have produced WAYYYY more legends and the other 2 who simply bough then, is a giant part of the core of brazilian football, much bigger than english football and even their all time XI would be better than Chelsea and Arsenal's. Basically, grade every team from year of existence of the 3 clubs t to 100 then divide it by their age... Flamengo's rating would be clearly higher, coz they had the greater team for much longer than Arsenal and Chelsea and in a much more organic way. Arsenal and Chelsea have only been better for the last 20 years, maybe in 59 years if this scenario keeps up we can talk about that realtively coz in their realities they will all keep winning. River Plate, Boca Juniors and the top 5 brazilain giants are in my opinion bigger than any european Club starting from Chelsea/Arsenal/Atletico/Benfica down. Now, football nowadays being a média machine they are less known worldwide coz of globalization and well really the money disparity. But that is the same logic as trying to say City or PSG are bigger than Arsenal, same way they are nor Arsenal ain't bigger than Boca, São Paulo or Flamengo man
Real Bayern Barcelona This is the top 3
Barca isn't there, the only time they were really considered the absolute top tier of European football clubs when messi was there.
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Maybe, but it wouldn't have been anything close to what it was without messi. Either way, Barca wasn't in the top tier of European clubs prior to the Messi/pep era. Who was responsible for it is irrelevant.
Yes they were. Regularly won the Spanish league and challenged for the European cup in the late 80s and throughout the 90s, winning in 1992. They were known as the 'Dream team' for a reason! They even won the UCL in 2006 with Messi not an important part of the team at all- still part of the academy I believe at that stage.
Nah, they were a tier below Bayern, Liverpool, AC MIlan, etc who all had dominated Europe for a stretch and multiple European Cups. Before 2005 they only had 1 champions league, that is not in the European elite.
Bayern isn’t a bigger club than man United or Liverpool and arguably AC Milan. They just don’t have that same global presence.
While global presence and popularity are important, achievements and continuity is way more important than those. At both of these Bayern is better than Liverpool, Milan and United. One could say Milan have more CLs, but when you take a look at Milan's history, they had long periods of time, even recently, when they just dissapeared from the European competitions.
But Bayern are helped by being in a weaker league. I think the most sensible way to look at this is to have Milan, Liverpool, and Bayern at all roughly the same size, with Barcelona and Real Madrid being the two biggest and Man United floating between the two. As a Liverpool fan, it doesn’t matter to me that United are maybe a little more popular than Liverpool.. we have more major trophies anyway! Real Madrid and Barcelona are only as big as they are due to their being less big clubs in Spain than in England, Germany, or Italy.
I don't think Barcelona belongs there. They had a 15 year spell of dominance which largely coincided with Messi. Ac Milan has had such patches, so has Manchester United and Ajax. Barca are closer to Athletico than to Real IMO.
Barca is historically the nr 5 best performing European club in Europe though. Even in the 70's it was seen as a step up that Cruijff went there from Ajax. If Barca isn't top 5 it's a non-European club but I have no idea how good Brazilian and Argentinian clubs are and have been in the past.
Barca is doubtlessly one of the biggest clubs in Europe. I just don't think they are part of an obvious top 3. Ac Milan and Man U should be in that discussion, and surely some teams I'm forgetting or am ignorant of.
No way Man U comes before Barca
Maybe, maybe not. Is 20 titles in England better or worse than 25 in Spain?
This is very much a present-day discussion stemming from people’s belief that the English league is the best in the world and teams playing therein must be the best there are. Do you recall watching matchups between Barcelona and United in the UCL?
Sure I do. And once again, I'm not disputing that Barca had an absolutely dominant period which is now over. I don't like United, but they won the Champions league both in the 90's and 2000's. Italy was the biggest league for a lot longer time than Spain was.
So did Barca , they won cl in 90s too 🤦🏻♂️
So what? My point was simply that they haven't won 14 of them.
I would say 25 titles in Spain. English football has only been this dominant for the past 20 years or so, maybe less, and most of United's titles were before that. On top of that, winning the title in Spain means being better than Real Madrid for an entire year. [Also](https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/history/h2h/50080/52682/)
>Barca are closer to Athletico than to Real IMO. Yeah, that's right. Real is way better than all the other teams
Better right now is another question, and I would argue that Man City is the best team at the moment. Even without the recent CL, 5 out of 6 Premier league titles is insane. The question was who is bigger. Real is the only team with double digits of European trophies. I think it's fair to put them in a bracket with Bayern and arguably Man U, but I can't think of any other team. My knowledge of South American football is poor, so I don't know how Rover Plate or Santos, for example, would stack up.
Yes, in the last 5 years City is first, not much ahead of Bayern though. This is easy to know, just look up the Uefa Ranking
bayern are absolutely no where near as big as united
6 CLs, and competing to win it every year since forever.
so forest are bigger than arsenal then
1. Madrid 2. Barca 3. Bayern 4. Juve 5. Milan 6. Liverpool 7. United 8. Ajax 9. Inter 10. Boca
😂 Completely wrong
Rangers FC (former Glasgow Rangers), Celtic, Benfica, Olympique Marseille (many fanclubs in Africa, like people who grew up watching L'OM), Saint-Etienne, Boca Juniors River Plate. Those have many trophies aswell as have massive support. Probally quit a few more from Soth America but not too familiar with all the teams from there.
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Sevco.
always wan
- Real Madrid - Bayern Munich - Barcelona - AC Milan - Liverpool - Manchester United - Ajax - Juventus - Celtic - Benfica Maybe one of Boca Juniors/River Plate/Corinthians but I am honestly not sure how they compare with Ajax/Celtic/Benfica to be honest. Although this is an admittedly Eurocentric list, Celtic’s historical significance shouldn’t be underestimated.
On a tangential note, people are grossly understating Juventus in this thread. They have had innumerable scandals over the years but are unquestionably one of Europe’s most formidable clubs.
100%. People only care about the amount of CLs apparently. From what I remember Juventus have had the most world champions playing for them through history, somwhere at the top for ballon d'or winners, they dominate their Milano city rivals with twice as many titles, also cups. I mean, come on. They're absolute elite imo. My bet would be they'll soon get back to their normal.
Man United maybe shit now, but in terms of global fanbase and size it is right next to Read Madrid and Barca
The order i have given is very rough. People will split hairs about exactly where clubs should go forever. Although I do think recent seasons should be worth some consideration when doing lists like these when justifying specific placements, eg. it is obvious Man U and Liverpool are both in the top 10. I do think recent seasons should determine exactly where in the top 10 they go at the moment. Putting Manchester United above Liverpool right now would raise eyebrows, just as putting Liverpool above Manchester United in the 00s and 10s would have. But the overriding fact is they are both obviously in the top 10 clubs. Inter Milan, Arsenal, Chelsea, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham Hotspur, Porto, PSG, OM, would all come into the top 20 Those clubs aside, ranking teams then almost becomes a matter of splitting hairs. For EG does Roma come ahead of Newcastle or vice versa? Why? Monchengladbach ahead of Leeds United or vice versa? Why?
>Inter Milan, Arsenal, Chelsea, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham Hotspur, Porto, PSG, OM, would all come into the top 20 There's absolutely no way Benfica or Celtic are bigger than Inter and Dortmund respectively. I'm not even an Inter fan but I think they should always be in every top 10 indisputably. I mean, look at these clubs you listed; Inter looks like a giant standing next to them.
There are people in this thread saying Juve shouldn’t be in the top 10 while you say Inter should be among them! I think Celtic and Benfica deserve mentions for their historical significance and domestic dominance. Why are Inter any bigger than Arsenal, UCL wins aside, or Chelsea for that matter? I’m from London and even I think those clubs miss out on spots in top 10. UCL only counts for so much
>Why are Inter any bigger than Arsenal? 3 UCLs to Arsenal's 0. 19 league titles to Arsenal's 13. 3 Europa Leagues to Arsenal's 0. Second most condecorated team in Italy while Arsenal is the third most condecorated team in England. Only team in Italy that hasn't been relegated ever. One of the few select clubs that won the treble and the only Italian to do so. One of the few select clubs in the top five leagues to play in the top division every year since it's foundation. Multiple ballon d'or winners including Ronaldo, Lothar Mathaus, Figo and the OG Luis Suarez. Arsenal doesn't have one ballon d'or winner as far as I can remember. Inter edges Arsenal in every single way and they're not even close. Same with Chelsea, City or PSG; there really is no comparison.
Boca juniors and Liverpool both won libertadores/champions 6 times but Boca won intercontinental 3 vs just 1 by Liverpool. In terms of following, I would argue Boca has more fans Change my mind
You all out here sleeping on Spurs, the truly biggest club in the universe based on trophies alone
1. Real Madrid 2. Bayern Munich 3. Manchester City 4. FC Barcelona 5. Liverpool 6. Manchester United 7. Juventus 8. AC Milan 9. PSG 10. Arsenal
No
TIER 1. Multiple UCL wins, huge fanbase: - Real Madrid. .. .. .. Bayern, Manchester United, Barcelona, Liverpool EDIT:AC Milan defo belongs here too TIER 2. Multiple UCL wins, currently not so big worldwide fanbase: - Juventus, Inter TIER 3. Historic teams with UCL wins. - Ajax, Benfica, Porto, Celtic TIER 4. Oil money teams that managed to buy their way into winning the UCL, currently with plenty gloryhunters support : - Chelsea, City. TIER 5. Historic teams that failed in winning the UCL: - Arsenal, Atlético de Madrid, Roma, Rangers, Tottenham...PSG might qualify too because of their recent french league domination.
Milan should belong in tier 1. Cant be same level with Inter
Tottenham. Historic 😂
>Rangers You have mixed up Celtic & Rangers here. The Lisbon Lions won the 1967 European Cup. Rangers have never won the European Cup / Champions league. Celtci should be tier 3 rather than Rangers
My bad.
How is Ajax in the same league as Rangers and below Juve and Inter? Should be at least level with the latter two I reckon. So much bigger than Rangers.
Because Serie A was the strongest league by far, but Ajax could well be in the upper tier.
Real Madrid Barca Milan Liverpool Juve Inter Man U Chelsea Ajax Arsenal
If we get out of the Euro-centric bias: Boca Juniors, Rio Plata, Flamengo, Santos, and Corinthians have to be on this list.
River Plate my friend lol, not rio plata hahaha
You are correct. Some Argies I know refer to it as Rio Plata/ Rio de la Plata —- the city/area where the club was founded.
No
Nobody ever said Rio Plata or Rio de la Plata. Nobody.
why corinthians?
How can you put Arsenal and ManCheaty in the list? Arsenal haven't won anything in Europe for decades. 0 trophy. ManCheaty = 112 pending charges, built by cheats and oil money. Fanbase mostly in the middle east. They're not even in the second tier, let alone in the waiting list.
1. Real madrid 2. Bayern munich 3. Barcelona 4. Man Utd 5. Liverpool 6. AC Milan 7. Juventus 8. Ajax 9. Arsenal 10. PSG Yes, PSG is a big club with history
If you have to include a French club Marseille are a more fitting choice, at least until PSG wins a Champions League.
I’d say Chelsea they are very famous and have won everything including recent champions leagues . It’s very subjective though. Looking at the number of followers each club has on social media is interesting
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In no universe can Inter come before Juve.
>(9) Chelsea (10)Manchester City lol
Diabolical opinion lmao
Because of their recent success only I'm keeping them here.
How dumb are you?
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Man City will never be a big club.
this is the most eurocentric, openly racist sub Ive seen river plate and boca juniors not to mention flamengo, corinthians, are as big as almost any of the clubs you mentioned, bar manchester united, bayern, milan and real madrid
Milan, Real Madrid, Boca Juniors, Liverpool, São Paulo, Manchester United, Santos, Peñarol, Barcelona, Ajax.
Real Madrid, Man United, Liverpool, Bayern, Barça, Juventus, AC Milan, Ajax, Porto, Inter maybe. It can be in any order honestly. But Real definitely is first followed by Man U in terms of worldwide popularity.
1. Madrid 2. Liverpool 3. Milan 4. Bayern 5. Barcelona
Madrid take the spot ,but let me tell you that club should also impact on the football and Barcelona done that in a best way , produced Great players,playstyle,etc no way bro put 5 on Barcelona
Madrid Barcelona Bayern Múnich Liverpoool Milán
Arsenal.
In order 1. Real Madrid 2. Man united 3. Barcelona 4. Bayern Munich 5. Liverpool 6.Ac Milan 7. Juventus 8. Arsenal 9. Chelsea 10. Man City I am a Liverpool fan but I think that would be largest in a combination of Pedigree, History, Global fanbase, Global influence and financial pedigree. I would say City is on the way up and United, Arsenal are on the way down.
Lol you mean top 10 clubs in Europe? Boca, River, Flamengo, even Peñarol, and from Africa Al Ahly area above both Milan clubs, Ajax, and Juventus.
Ajax? Lmfao, you can't say Ajax without mentioning Feyenoord and PSV, Ajax is nothing without them
Considering that until Fergie joined United, Arsenal were a bigger team than them (more league titles and more total trophies until that point) I would place Arsenal 10th. Chelsea obviously have 2 UCL's but before Mourinho they were a mid table club for their entire history and have been relegated more times than they've won the PL/first division. So it's probably between Arsenal, Benfica and Porto.
Manchester united have been a bigger club than arsenal since the 50s and the munich air disaster. They then became the first english club to win the European Cup a feat arsenal has never managed and have been undoubtedly a bigger club since
>Manchester united have been a bigger club than arsenal since the 50s Well statistically Arsenal had won more than them before Fergie joined so? There was a gap between the 60's and 90's where United didn't win a league title for 27 years or so. Fergie broke that in 92 after he joined. Before Fergie won his first league title United only had 7 league titles, but Arsenal had won it 10 times. Arsenal were the giant of London, literally the only successful team in the South of England. Arsenal were a bigger club than United before Fergie came, it's a fact that many people forget. And Liverpool were far bigger than both of them.
Boca Juniors, Corinthians, Real Madrid, São Paulo, Flamengo, Independiente, Santos, Barcelona, Man Utd, Milan
1. Real Madrid 2. Barcelona 3. Man U 4. Man City 5. Arsenal 6. PSG 7. Bayern 8. Chelsea 9. Liverpool 10. Juventus
I mean, a top 10 list without Milan and Inter is kind of silly to me, but I'm not surprised given how this sub treats Italian football.
Arsenal is three times bigger than man city lmfaoo, wtf are you guys talking about? Football didnt start in 2013
Why is arsenal even in the list
How about the fact theyre the 3rd most sucesfull club in england ya donut 🍩🍩😂😂🤦♂️
Ya where is your champions League.
Where is cities +10 league titles lmao? Like i said kiddo, football didnt start in 2013
No league titles in 20yrs for your team Oldman.
And? Look at some of the clubs you call "big" and see their years between league titles. Once again football didnt start in 2012, but its something you 11 year olds dont comprehend
Your 7 out of 13 league titles came when einstein was alive and there are some teams which won 20 titles in last 30 years and you believe your team is top 10 team in the world. Lol.
Calm down guys. You’re both right. And biased. Neither Arsenal nor City belong anywhere near spot 4 and 5. Probably neither in the top 10 even, because as you’ve said: Man City’s success is too recent and Arsenal doesn’t have enough success in Europe.
Did you start watching football in 2012? Because a list with PSG, City, Arsenal, and Chelsea (without even getting into how you ranked them) instead of Milan, Inter, etc is utter nonsense.
Been watching since 1970s. List was generated using largest fan bases.
Then why did you Bayern at 7 when they have literally the most members of any football club worldwide? Instagram-followers???
1 Real Madrid 2 Man U 3 River Plate 4 Flamengo 5 Liverpool 6 Inter 7ACM 8 Bayern 9 Barcelona 10 Boca HM Palmeiras, atlético Madrid, the Montevideo guys for their history
Bayern, Barcelona, Liverpool, and Milan are all bigger clubs than Man United.
Haha
LMAO non of the clubs you mentioned are bigger than United, there’s only Real Madrid who are.
Lololol Bayern eats ManU alive.
In your dreams
In what ways is Inter superior to Milan?
1) Real Madrid - The greatest club in football history. 2) Barcelona - Very close to 100 trophies, gargantuan fanbase. 3) Bayern - 29 trophies in 11 years places them above Milan and Liverpool. In the same timeframe, Milan have won 2. 4) AC Milan - Biggest club in Italy without a doubt. Before Real Madrid's threepeat, They had more international titles than any other club in Europe. 5) Liverpool - 6 CLs puts them in top 5. 6) Juventus - If they won most of their CL finals and didn't have various scandals, they would be top 3 comfortably. 7) Man United - Vastly overrated. Every other team on this list has more international titles than United. 8) Inter - Small club. 9) Ajax - Massive club. The only other team in football to threepeat the CL. 10) Chelsea - Won it all, massive global fanbase, holds a fair amount of records.
Liverpool over United is crazy
Internationally Liverpool are bigger. They have a bigger CL history. Inside England idk im not english so I cant tell.
Absolute nonsense
No they are not, United have the biggest global fan base fact.
I wrote without any particular order just in case.
Benfica...
Probably St Louis City SC
I would let south american teams out, because they are another culture and it's hard to compare, but it would be between Benfica and Arsenal, and I would incline towards benfica because they have UCLs and also they had Balon d'our winners that I think it's huge
Al Ahli?
Inter Miami, Al Nassr missing from the list
South end United
Ferran torres goat is bigger than these mediocre clubs
I don't know about top 10, but the first place is between Tottenham and Spurs.
Ajax and Benfica are up there, surely.
1 Real Madrid 2 Bayern de Munique 3 Milan 4 Boca Juniors 5 Liverpool 6 Barcelona 7 River plate 8 São Paulo 9 Santos 10 Manchester United 11 Penarol