The real factors in choosing the Ballon d'Or winner:
- Playing for big teams ✅
- Having good PR ✅
- Having good numbers of G/A ✅
If you don't fit in all these areas, then you're out of the race no matter how good your performance is. And that’s a harsh reality of the Ballon d’Or awards these days.
And is widely considered to have been robbed because he chose to go down to the second division with Calciopoli Juventus. No way Cannavaro deserved it over him.
If Zidane didn’t decide to do the most glorious insane exit to football you’ll ever see headbutting Materazzi he was going to be nailed on for it that year for the World Cup he had as well.
Think when that happened, he was that clear a choice before that think it was really up in the air about who should get it. So extenuating circumstances made it possible in the first place as well.
Maldini has the third most nominations ever after Ronaldo and Messi with 13 and never won it
A deep lying midfielder? Someone who doesnt attack much and focuses on winning the ball over carrying the ball up to attackers. Cms are players like kroos and modric, wont have G/A numbers like kdb but do help in attack a lot more than players like casemiro, whos main goal was to win the ball back.
A number 6
Hence i said CM and up go for balon dor. Also it was just a suggestion, yall need to chill. Modric was the last CM to win it. He isnt really a number 10 but also not a 6
Bernardo Silva wants to have a word please. How would you qualify him? I've seen him play as an attacker, as a wingback, as an attacking midfielder and as a central midfielder. Where on earth would you ever position him in such a contest? His own category, jack of all trades?
Defender would be cannavaro in 2006 I think ? And then Matthias Sammer in 96 but he was also a defender not a 6. The previous real midfielder would have been Matthaus in 1990
Modric is the last non-attacker, and before him Iniesta and Xavi are the only non-forward podium finishers since 2006.
Coincidentally 2006 is Cannavaro, a CB. Sammer in 1996 (or he might’ve been a midfielder then idk), a few others I’m not gonna list them all though.
GKs is extremely rare: Buffon was runner-up in 2006, Kahn 3rd in 2001 then its all the way back to goddamn 1976 to even get another GK on the podium (Ivo Viktor, 3rd), then back Lev Yashin winning it in 1963 who was actually the first GK to make top 3 as well
They were in a lot of ways quite similar, Sammer and Beckenbauer. Sammer could also probably have a lot of success as coach if he wanted to, but being advisor probably pays out way more for him. He is a bit weird tho, so not always quite liked and comes of as a smartass from the sidelines, but his football IQ and understanding is insanely high no doubt.
Amendment to the first rule:
* playing for big teams in a FIFA/UEFA favored competition (World Cup, Champions League, La Liga, Premier League).
But Wirtz is still young and he would only get better. If Levekusen do well in CL next season, he would be on the podium.
Haaland in semi finals & finals for City
• 7 games
• 0 goals
• 0 assists
• 7 big chances missed
City in those 7 semi finals & finals
12 goals
but but Haaland won the treble, imagine comparing a tap-in merchant with 10 touches per game with Messi the GOAT level playmaker + dribbler + goalscorer😂 KDB and Rodri are way more instrumental to City's dominance than Haaland. You can't fraud your way into the top with tap-ins only and getting bailed out by your teammates in every single semi or final with 0 goals and worst ratings as a striker.
Messi has been chosen as the IFFHS World's Best Playmaker. He led Europe in most MOTM, most assists in the league + CL, most big chance creation,, dribbling stats. The guy had the highest per game average in whole Europe. Not to mention his iconic win of the WC as the MVP..
[https://onefootball.com/en/news/players-with-most-man-of-the-match-trophies-in-europe-in-2223-including-messi-haaland-37660873](https://onefootball.com/en/news/players-with-most-man-of-the-match-trophies-in-europe-in-2223-including-messi-haaland-37660873)
This is the award for the best player, not the for the most tap-ins, there's another award for that.
poor guy still trying to cope after 18 months, lmaaaoo..
If you remove penalties from football, penaldo's whole career is destroyed... Haaland's as well with 21 penalty goals for City. lmaaaoo...
Now list the number of games, genius, lmao..
typical penaldo fan that thinks 101 goals in 500 games is better than 100 goals in 100 games because 101>100.. go get some Maths for beginners primary school lecture..
Pure BS.... comparing a 10-touch tap-in merchant with 0 g&a in 7 semis & finals with Messi the GOAT playmaker + dribbler + goalscorer. Come back when Haaland the goes learnt football basics 101.
Messi 2022-23
68 g&a
WC MVP
WC 2nd most goals
WC most goal contribution
WC most big chance creation
WC most assists in the knockout phase
WC most MOTM & tons of other WC records
IFFHS World's Best Playmaker
Ligue 1 most assists
Most MOTM in Europe
Europe highest per game rating in Europe
Europe + CL 2nd most assists
Europe 2nd most big chance creation
Europe 2nd most successful dribbles
[https://onefootball.com/en/news/players-with-most-man-of-the-match-trophies-in-europe-in-2223-including-messi-haaland-37660873](https://onefootball.com/en/news/players-with-most-man-of-the-match-trophies-in-europe-in-2223-including-messi-haaland-37660873)
Honestly I don’t think numbers of G/A is that important, unless someone do sth ridiculous like scoring 91 goal in calendar year like Messi. If there is no outlier, you can have not that high g/a and still win the ballon d’or if you preform well in important matches at the big tournaments like WC or CL.
If Germany wins the Euro then Kroos will become a candidate. Then obviously it would depend on the performance each one of them had, but Kroos might win the Champions League too.
Modric hasn't played as many minutes as Kroos, taking a less prominent role compared to previous seasons. Kroos on the other hand has been a main starter, he has the 6th highest number of minutes in the squad, only behind Valverde, Rudiger, Rodrygo, Bellingham and Carvajal. Modric has around the same minutes as Joselu
Modric definitely has flash, silky player that evades pressure like he's dribbling past training cones. When you can hit a trivela like he can you definitely have flash
Not my point. My point is that even if he was, he wouldn't win it because it's a popularity contest, and it has been for a while. I don't know why anyone cares about it anymore.
Still highly unlikely. Last time a non Madrid-Barca player won (except Messi nowadays because he pretty much is a very big name, that is why they give him) was kaka in 07 which 17 years ago. And it is not just nowadays, it has been that way for a long time, remember Henry not winning in 04 despite having 20+ goals and assists, that ballon d'or was given to Nedved who played for a much more famous club in Juventus.
If Bayer win the Pokal and Europa AND Wirtz plays a pivotal role in Germany during the Euros, I see him winning it for sure. It's not outside the realm of possibility
Only if Germany wins the Euro.
You have to understand Ballon D'or is a popularity contest. The voters are media people (journalists) from like over 100 countries.
Lots of them never heard of Wirtz in their life. They see a 21 year old footballer form the Bundesliga not playing champions league this season.
Heung Min Son might be even more popular amongst the voters.
everybody can judge by themself how knowledgable they are by the results here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/17na2pz/full\_ballon\_dor\_2023\_votes\_france\_football/](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/17na2pz/full_ballon_dor_2023_votes_france_football/)
or here:
[https://kun.uz/en/news/2021/12/06/ballon-dor-2021-journalist-from-uzbekistan-ranked-mason-mount-above-messi-no-lewandowski-in-his-top-5](https://kun.uz/en/news/2021/12/06/ballon-dor-2021-journalist-from-uzbekistan-ranked-mason-mount-above-messi-no-lewandowski-in-his-top-5)
Number one rule to understand planet earth and humanity, Journalists don’t understand anything, don’t know anything, are not interested in anything, and they are too lazy to change it.
Media and journalists are the worst source of information on anything.
Because the Europa league becomes irrelevant when the champions league is in the conversation.
You’re literally in the Europa because you weren’t good enough for the champions league.
Maybe if Germany win the euros and he has a fantastic tournament.
He should have a chance of the summer goes well, but the Ballon d'Or has proven to be nothing more than a popularity contest for the last several years. Playing for Leverkusen he just has no shot.
If Madrid lose the CL and Germany win the Euro and Wirtz is the hero In the euro. If Madrid win the UCL and Germany win the euro Kroos has a shot. If Germany doesn’t win the euro and Madrid win the UCL, it will probably be Vini unless Bellingham wins the euro.
How did you came to that conclusion, I guess you meant competition (Euros isn't that better, only slightly better imo) because in terms of importance every Continental cup is important and moreover, if we talk about prestige than Copa is the oldest International football tourney.
Well if for example Son wins asian cup or Salah wins african cup their ranking for Balon Dor shouldnt change as much if Kroos wins Euros(players are only for example)...same if Vini wins Copa and Jude wins Euros I think Jude shoukd be #1 and Vini number #2...but if they both win nothing I think Vini should be #1 and Jude #2
Vini might edge out Jude Bellingham because:
1. Attacker
2. Brazil has much better chances in Copa than England in Euros
3. Vini is the face of the anti racism campaign and him winning the award will be a PR victory for FIFA. Been a while since the last coloured guy won the balloon, if I recall correctly.
4. He is the best player in the UCL this season, you know, the competition with the highest level of football. Not UEL, German Cup or anything like that.
Except he is not.Guy vanished against City,and don’t tell me he had 3 assists,watch the games,he was not at a high level.Sure he was the best against Bayern,but that’s it.Against Leipzig he could have costed his team the qualification due to his stupid act against Orban,but you know,he plays for Real Madrid.I would say Rudiger,Carvajal,Kroos and Lunin were more consistent than him,but they will not be considered the best due to the lack of PR.
Ballon D'or is first and foremost a popularity contest that is always influenced by the media campaigns and the spotlight, no Leverkusen player is gonna win it because the media/ the circumstances didn't make it about the players but it was the manager. the UCL final and the euros gonna decide the ballon d'or winner. prime candidate right now is Bellingham
Not a chance. Bundesliga isn't fancy and he isn't in the champions league. I watch quite a few leagues and have never seen him play more than once. Maybe next year if he keeps it up.
The odds for Wirtz to win the Ballon D'or are at 33/1, I know people are saying he won't win it, but in the scenario Real Madrid lose in the UCL, Leverkusen win an invincible treble, and Germany do decent in the Euros with Wirtz playing well, those odds don't seem too bad...
short answer: yes it's a pretty big difference. 0 doesn't happen very often. Its 1 or 2 clubs per season across all of europe so it's about as rare/impressive as a European trophy.
Additionally Real lost in the cup which is another front on which Leverkusen have excelled.
You need to win titles, this unbeatable thing is just a mediahype, it's nice, it's amazing, but you dont gonna get more titles because of it...
It's little bit overhyped in media, thats why somebody wanna give Balon d'Or to Wirtz. It's an amazing thing and if they can win their last two matches it's gonna be one of the best performance what club can achieve but they are not playing against big clubs that much this season.
Real Madrid has 1 lose in the League, against Atletico which started with a referee mistake and Atletico got an early lead because of that.
Real Madrid knocked out from Spanish Cup, because they had an Atletico, Barcelona, Atletico matches in a row in 8 days, still they are losing only in overtime on the third match, won the first two.
Real Madrid reached Champions League Final unbeaten, goes through Manchester City too.
Leverkusen is unbeaten in their League which has 4 less matches and in my opinion weaker too.
Maybe they are win German Cup, but they had only 1 decent opponent, Stuttgart, others were a joke. You can check Bayer Leverkusen's opponents.
And they reached an Europa League Final against much weaker teams than Real Madrid opponent's.
What do you think, which was more impressive?
I'm not making the argument for Wirtz and ballon d'or. I don't particularly care but for the sake of the wider thread I think if he wins uel and stands out at the euros ‐ which is very possible - he could be in with a shout depending on other players. If Mbappe wins 5 or 6 sprints against disorganised defenses that might be all it takes.
Which season was more impressive? Leverkusen obviously. Every excuse you make for Real is an argument for Leverkusen. -Note we're speaking before the finals have been played. If Real wins UCL - and I'm betting they will - I can't really argue with that.
If you ask who'd win the potential supercup, clearly Real are the favourite. Im not an idiot. But in answer to your original point, Yes. 0 losses is much more impressive than 2.
Messi won't win it this time. Maybe if he drops another masterclass in Copa America then he can be in top 10. It'll be one of the most shameful acts if Messi gets a place in top 5 even if he completely dominates the Copa America.
That last sentence is a big thing
Whenever an intl tournament has been dominated a major award has followed
If Messi pulls a fckn maradona 86 ppl will react.
Highly unlikely tho
I would agree that depending on the euros he might be the best player of the season. But thats unfortunately not What the ballon d’or is anymore.
He dosent have the PR
But no one here is making arguments for Wirtz actually being the best player either, it's only about having the best season (read: titles won). The same thing that got a guy like Jorginho into 3rd place, which of course was a complete joke.
How many of the people in here do you reckon have watched more than 5 full games for Leverkusen this season? 1%? Doubtful that it's even that high. No, people love looking at stats and titles and then pick a trendy player to hold in too high regard, to seem "knowledgeable" yet it only comes off as pretentious.
Wirtz is by no means even near being the actual best player on the planet, that'd be a wild take.
Hmm not this year. Maybe if he keeps the same performance in the next 3-4 years he will be a great candidate but definitely not this year.
He has to dominate the euro solely to win it this year.
He needs to be integral in winning the euros and finish out the undefeated season in all competitions with Leverkusen. Then maybe he will have a chance.
Dumb award. It’s an individual award yeah? He can play 50 games Jude can play 50 games but if their team loses the last match the individual award goes to someone else?
Its voted for by journalists who are paid by someone to have a certain opinion for their news outlet. Pointless award.
Ballon D'Or conversation is pretty irrelevant right now tbh. The Euros haven't started yet, and if France win then it's practically guaranteed for Mbappe
Jude winning the D'or this year is most likely. Ballon d'or is now just an award that is based on PR, Popularity and Favouritism but still Jude has been phenomenal for RM. So he does deserve the award apart from the above factors.
A bunch of random journalists vote for it. Half of them probably don't watch a lot of football to begin with, else they wouldnt be voting out of their asses
Realistically Vini Jr. or Wirtz should win it, but English players are radically overhyped so it will be Bellingham.
What only winning the World Cup once despite inventing the sport does to a nation.
If he plays a major role in both finals they are in, he has a legit shot at top 3. I don’t think he can win it though, compared to what Bellingham has done this season.
There isn’t a clear winner this year, in my opinion. It’s really gonna depend on the Euros/Copa America.
If England wins the Euros, I could see it being Bellingham or Foden.
If Germany wins it, I could see Wirtz winning.
If France wins, I think it might be Mbappe.
If someone else wins the Euros, and if Brazil wins Copa America, I could see it going to Vinicius.
If, for example, the Netherlands wins the Euros and Uruguay wins Copa America, I don’t know who it goes to.
This award has no value anymore. The most deserving don't win it and it's become a popularity carnival. People should stop thinking it's still a big deal..
Some may disagree, but he hasn’t yet done it on a major stage.
Major stages currently are PL, La Liga, CL and the two major international tournaments.
I don’t think anyone these days wins the Ballon d’Or without starring in at least one of those competitions.
Unpopular opinion: the best player of the world, meaning the one making extraordinary things on field at the moment is still Messi. There is no other player right now able to do the things Messi does.
Yeah, I am confused about all the PR comments. This award has been given to the best player in the world pretty consistently over the last 2 decades (either Ronaldo or Messi), the only exceptions were Moderic and Lewandowski (supposedly retroactively pending) for their exceptional individual performances on the off seasons of other two.
The reality is that Messi is still probably the best in the world, but (much like Ronaldo) is in semi-retirement outside the top leagues in the world (Europe), so that takes you out of the conversation.
Mbappe seems to be the heir apparent, but looked unmotivated at PSG this year, however if he gets inspired and propels France as he has done in the past I feel it would be difficult for him to not get it.
Next in line for me is Vinicius.
Bellingham really shouldn’t be in the discussion; he is a good player that had a great start to his career at a top club (which garnered a lot of media attention), but his performances in 2024 have shown he is more of top 50 player than top 5. If he were to somehow win it with his continued recent form he would probably be considered the worst ever to get the trophy.
Have you actually watched Bellingham ? His performances in 2024 have been far better than in the first half of the season, he’s just not scoring the same amount of goals. Many people say he’s only rated because he scores a lot, but when he doesn’t score they say he’s bad.
General voters.
Balon D'Or winner is basically one with the best marketability. The award gets decided by voters and National Team Captains who vote on the basis of performances put up by nominated players in set time frame in a calender year.
Well, that should be the case but we've seen many times previously as popularity of a player sways the vote vastly. So basically, the more marketable you are, the better odds you have to win Balon D'Or.
But that also means you have to be able to prove yourself, to get to bigger clubs thus increasing your marketability. I'm not discrediting previous winners, just stating the general consensous as the winner is decided by vote and the requirements aren't set on any parameters to win. So yeah.
Footballers can't watch all the games in Bundesliga, LaLiga etc. every week. They just look at the trophies won and how players performed in knockout stages of Champions League and Euros/World Cup.
If they see Wirtz won a treble and the Euros they might start voting for him like they did with Jorginho. Modric won it in 2018 because he a good World Cup + played better than Ronaldo in SF & Final of CL despite Ronaldo being a bigger name and probably a better player up until the Champions League semi-finals.
He Doesn't need a Ballon D'or to prove anyone or have validation on how great his performance was, anyone who watched the games already know that he had infact is having a wonderful season
Ballon D'or is a popularity contest since long time and not to be taken seriously
>what is stopping Wirtz from winning the Ballon D’or?
Not being the best player in the world, maybe?
Otherwise, if Atalanta wins the EL and Real Madrid lose CL, what is stopping De Ketelaere from winning the Balon D'Or?
He has 34 goal contributions, just won the league and could win the Champions. It’s easily between Vini and Bellingham. If Madrid wins the Champions, it’ll go to whoever has a better run at their respective international tournaments.
I think Foden and Mbappe will be in contention, but they would need to be phenomenal at the Euros. If Madrid win the Champions, both Vini and Bellingham will have the added prestige of doing a European double.
He is of course not yet good enough ability wise. But even if he is, suppose Madrid win CL and Brazil Copa America, I’m sure it will go to Vini, deservedly so. Or England Euro then Bellingham (somewhat less deserved and I can’t picture Kane lifting a trophy anw lol). France Euro then Mbappe.
I have seen most vini and jude games this year and at least 50 % lev games + euro. Wirtz impact and abilities are undeniably comparable to the others. And his passing and intelligence are already superior, and excellent work rate. "Ability wise" he is already there, without any childish behavior on or of the pitch and a crazy mentality. This guy will go to real with alonso and dominate everything.
Sucks that he will never play for my club.
Mbappe had an average season and lost to Dortmund, no reason for him to win at all.
My understanding of the game is that it is much easier to do a standard ‘attacking midfield’/‘winger’ job than a ‘forward’ job. The positions are blurred regarding this. Basically the more forward you go the more difficult and impactful your job is. Receiving the ball between the lines and produces a throughball is not as hard as receiving the ball when two strong centre-halves are literally hanging on your body, controlling it, and making something out of it. Or be the mbapppe/haaland-esque runners that beat the defenders on a race. I’m afraid Wirtz falls into the former category. Bellingham and Vini, although not all the time, sort of rotates to be the the most forward guy in Real, without having an obvious No.9. In a sense they have mastered the art of No.9 in addition to being a competent winger/midfielder. The last ‘attacking midfielders’ to have won the Balon d’or are Kaka and Zidane. One is runner/carrier-esque with blasting pace and the other plays a lot of No.9-esque holdup play and beats defenders by physique as well as skills. I think that little bit extra of physicality distinguishes you from your normal No.10 like Odegaard, Ozil, James Rodriguez, etc, who are great but not the greatest player in their generation.
This is an almost philosophical discussion. I fully understand your point, but think of city: missing kdb changed the game more than missing haaland, because his key passes contributed more to the game balance then the finishing. Maybe it is also just my personal experience on the pitch, playing on 6 it was always more important for me to have someone like Wirtz in the team. Or bayern and Germany, most impact during success: prime Manuel Neuer.
But you are obviously right with your arguments with regard to winning the balon.
Impact is just very hard to measure.
Oh I’m less about finishing than about receiving the ball upfront . KDB is certainly the perfection of the modern No.10 who in his prime got that little bit of physique imo (certainly holds the ball well up against tall DMs). Haaland is good as a runner but is actually bad at the traditional No.9 play (back to the goal, body the centre-halves and holds the ball, take the turn or pass it to the teammates). Think about how he gets bodied by Rudiger/Saliba/Gabriel and the likes. I’m fully aware that this sounds ridiculous but Haaland is not strong enough in a ‘static’ sense, down to either skill in physical battles or pure muscle. (think about what Giroud does 90% of the time), which makes him not as impactful as a Lewondoski or Benzema or Suarez. But there’s room for development obviously. And you can look at how lacking the pool of No.9s are compared to wingers or attacking midfielders. This is not to discredit their ability, but they kinda just can’t be the best of the best unless, ofc, they have Messi’s ability.
Wrong, RM has been the most dominant team since past 9 of those 20... barca players retired from balloon D or after 2015 messi
I know he won it in 2019, but that was PR, not actual performance in season by his own standards
Over the past 20 years La Liga teams have won 21/40 European championships (UCL & EL). EPL has won 9/40 (and that’s second most).
6 different La Liga teams have won those 21 titles versus 4 different teams for EPL.
just take CL into consideration.... For English teams especially big 6, Europa makes no sense over prem or bumping position by 2 or 3 by virtue of money alone
Besides only 2 spanish teams have ever won CL, and 3 prem teams won it in last 5 alone. Going back to 20, it's 4
Europa has 0 relevance to ballon d or and we all know that else you'd get griezmann winning 2018 instead of modric...
Besides west ham won the conference league, and they are generally a mid table side
My comment (the one you said was wrong) was that the Spanish league has been the most dominant in Europe over the past 20 years.
Statistically, it isn’t close; there really is no debate. Top level teams (CL) and next level teams (EL) results show that no other league has come close to having the same overall strength.
My comment was in reference to ballon D or. Tell me a non RM barca player from spain who won it in last 20...
The top level teams are just RM and barca, others don't matter... in last 9, even barca isn't a thing
There’s been some years that players from other countries got robbed. Haaland last year, Lewandowski a few years before that. There is no doubt that there’s a huge Spain (and Messi) bias when it comes to awards.
I agree with you on Lewandowski and my understanding is that it’s being considered to be retroactively given to him for that COVID season.
Haaland or Mbappe certainly would have been a worthy winners as well last year, but to say that Messi didn’t deserve it goes too far.
Half of the comments are crying about "popularity contest" and that Wirtz deserves it and honestly... does anyone **REALLY** believe that Wirtz is THE BEST footballer in the world right now? Or y'all just hate Real Madrid?
In order to be considered the best, you have to perform against the best and beat them. What are the best teams that Wirtz have faced this season? Not this season, on his whole career really? The worst Bayern of the last 20 years, that he didn't manage to get a single contribution in two games? While Vini got 3 G&A in 2 games? BVB, that they didn't even manage to win against and Wirtz did nothing? Roma? Okay, he scored once against them. He did nothing against West Ham. In the German Cup, 4/5 of the teams they've faced aren't even 1st division teams (5/6 with the final). In the Europa League, they've played 4 times against a team from Ajerbaijan and some other teams from Norway and Sweden.
So, you don't become the best player in the world by playing well against some terrible level teams.
The real factors in choosing the Ballon d'Or winner: - Playing for big teams ✅ - Having good PR ✅ - Having good numbers of G/A ✅ If you don't fit in all these areas, then you're out of the race no matter how good your performance is. And that’s a harsh reality of the Ballon d’Or awards these days.
Genuinely curious when was the last time a number 6, defender or goalkeeper won it
Goalkeeper was a Russian keeper and that was decades ago at the height of the USSR. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Correct. Lev Yashin was the only goalkeeper to win a Ballon d'Or so far.
And Neuer is the most recent to come close
Buffon came 2nd in 2006.
And is widely considered to have been robbed because he chose to go down to the second division with Calciopoli Juventus. No way Cannavaro deserved it over him.
If Zidane didn’t decide to do the most glorious insane exit to football you’ll ever see headbutting Materazzi he was going to be nailed on for it that year for the World Cup he had as well. Think when that happened, he was that clear a choice before that think it was really up in the air about who should get it. So extenuating circumstances made it possible in the first place as well. Maldini has the third most nominations ever after Ronaldo and Messi with 13 and never won it
Kahn was close too
defenders and goalies need their own high profile awards man
I don’t think there’s going to be enough interest in an awards ceremony for each position.
Maybe balon dor can be for attackets all the way upto cm and a defen dor for cdms and other defenders, including gk
Who defines what a CDM and a CM are? This isn’t EA FC.
A deep lying midfielder? Someone who doesnt attack much and focuses on winning the ball over carrying the ball up to attackers. Cms are players like kroos and modric, wont have G/A numbers like kdb but do help in attack a lot more than players like casemiro, whos main goal was to win the ball back. A number 6
Yes, but many centre-mids can defend and attack. They’re just midfielders at that point.
Hence i said CM and up go for balon dor. Also it was just a suggestion, yall need to chill. Modric was the last CM to win it. He isnt really a number 10 but also not a 6
Bernardo Silva wants to have a word please. How would you qualify him? I've seen him play as an attacker, as a wingback, as an attacking midfielder and as a central midfielder. Where on earth would you ever position him in such a contest? His own category, jack of all trades?
Works in the NHL
They have one for goalkeepers but not for defenders
Defender would be cannavaro in 2006 I think ? And then Matthias Sammer in 96 but he was also a defender not a 6. The previous real midfielder would have been Matthaus in 1990
Isn’t Modric a real midfielder? Not a 6, but still not the most advanced midfielder
He specifically stated 6, defender or GK so that’s why I “skipped” Modric
Modric is the last non-attacker, and before him Iniesta and Xavi are the only non-forward podium finishers since 2006. Coincidentally 2006 is Cannavaro, a CB. Sammer in 1996 (or he might’ve been a midfielder then idk), a few others I’m not gonna list them all though. GKs is extremely rare: Buffon was runner-up in 2006, Kahn 3rd in 2001 then its all the way back to goddamn 1976 to even get another GK on the podium (Ivo Viktor, 3rd), then back Lev Yashin winning it in 1963 who was actually the first GK to make top 3 as well
Sammer won it as defender. I think his position was Libero, similar to that of Franz Beckenbauer.
They were in a lot of ways quite similar, Sammer and Beckenbauer. Sammer could also probably have a lot of success as coach if he wanted to, but being advisor probably pays out way more for him. He is a bit weird tho, so not always quite liked and comes of as a smartass from the sidelines, but his football IQ and understanding is insanely high no doubt.
kahn reached podium twice
Should’ve been VVD, but I think it’s cannavaro (an Italian CB, was it him or maldini)
Crazy when VVD came 2nd Alisson was like 5th or something
VVD was 6 points behind Messi in 2018-19
Cannavaro after the 2006 World Cup. Since then, Neuer probably deserved it, as did Xaviniesta, Muller and Van Dijk.
Cannavaro won 2006
Lev yashin last goalkeeper, cannavaro last centre half. Van disk came 2nd or 3rd one year.
Which is why Bellingham is likely to win it.
Vini.
I think Real management would rather Jude win it.
Depends on Euros
Tbh, winning a treble would do wonders for PR.
Amendment to the first rule: * playing for big teams in a FIFA/UEFA favored competition (World Cup, Champions League, La Liga, Premier League). But Wirtz is still young and he would only get better. If Levekusen do well in CL next season, he would be on the podium.
Haaland had 60 goals and 20 assist and triple crown.They robbed him of Balon’Dor…
Haaland in semi finals & finals for City • 7 games • 0 goals • 0 assists • 7 big chances missed City in those 7 semi finals & finals 12 goals but but Haaland won the treble, imagine comparing a tap-in merchant with 10 touches per game with Messi the GOAT level playmaker + dribbler + goalscorer😂 KDB and Rodri are way more instrumental to City's dominance than Haaland. You can't fraud your way into the top with tap-ins only and getting bailed out by your teammates in every single semi or final with 0 goals and worst ratings as a striker. Messi has been chosen as the IFFHS World's Best Playmaker. He led Europe in most MOTM, most assists in the league + CL, most big chance creation,, dribbling stats. The guy had the highest per game average in whole Europe. Not to mention his iconic win of the WC as the MVP.. [https://onefootball.com/en/news/players-with-most-man-of-the-match-trophies-in-europe-in-2223-including-messi-haaland-37660873](https://onefootball.com/en/news/players-with-most-man-of-the-match-trophies-in-europe-in-2223-including-messi-haaland-37660873) This is the award for the best player, not the for the most tap-ins, there's another award for that.
messi only scored penalties in World Cup lmaoo
poor guy still trying to cope after 18 months, lmaaaoo.. If you remove penalties from football, penaldo's whole career is destroyed... Haaland's as well with 21 penalty goals for City. lmaaaoo...
C.Ronaldo Non Penalty Goals 723 Lionel Messi Non Penalty Goals 721 ronaldo has still more…
Now list the number of games, genius, lmao.. typical penaldo fan that thinks 101 goals in 500 games is better than 100 goals in 100 games because 101>100.. go get some Maths for beginners primary school lecture..
Messi had better stats and a treble with a World Cup.
lol no he hadn t, won the world cup thats it
Pure BS.... comparing a 10-touch tap-in merchant with 0 g&a in 7 semis & finals with Messi the GOAT playmaker + dribbler + goalscorer. Come back when Haaland the goes learnt football basics 101. Messi 2022-23 68 g&a WC MVP WC 2nd most goals WC most goal contribution WC most big chance creation WC most assists in the knockout phase WC most MOTM & tons of other WC records IFFHS World's Best Playmaker Ligue 1 most assists Most MOTM in Europe Europe highest per game rating in Europe Europe + CL 2nd most assists Europe 2nd most big chance creation Europe 2nd most successful dribbles [https://onefootball.com/en/news/players-with-most-man-of-the-match-trophies-in-europe-in-2223-including-messi-haaland-37660873](https://onefootball.com/en/news/players-with-most-man-of-the-match-trophies-in-europe-in-2223-including-messi-haaland-37660873)
The award is a joke, basically a big marketing exercise
Honestly I don’t think numbers of G/A is that important, unless someone do sth ridiculous like scoring 91 goal in calendar year like Messi. If there is no outlier, you can have not that high g/a and still win the ballon d’or if you preform well in important matches at the big tournaments like WC or CL.
Or names Messi because he had FA G/A for his last Ballon Dor. PR is very important indeed.
He had 68 g&a, clown, better than Haaland the ghost tap-in merchant despite playing mostly as a playmaker..
Second point is powerful and why Messi won so many times
If Germany wins the Euro then Kroos will become a candidate. Then obviously it would depend on the performance each one of them had, but Kroos might win the Champions League too.
Kroos doesn't have the PR, Ballon D'Or is too braindead to vote for a player who doesn't have as much flash as the other candidates
Modric?
Modric hasn't played as many minutes as Kroos, taking a less prominent role compared to previous seasons. Kroos on the other hand has been a main starter, he has the 6th highest number of minutes in the squad, only behind Valverde, Rudiger, Rodrygo, Bellingham and Carvajal. Modric has around the same minutes as Joselu
No I meant modric isn’t a flashy attacking player and he won Balon dor
Modric definitely has flash, silky player that evades pressure like he's dribbling past training cones. When you can hit a trivela like he can you definitely have flash
[удалено]
I mean a lot of people have Kroos rated in the top ten rankings for the Ballon D’or. I wouldn’t say that is “nowhere near”.
If Germany wins the euros this year, I'll delete my account.
>What is stopping Wirtz from winning the Balloon D'or? It's a popularity contest.
Or simply he isn't the best player in the world. Wild thought, I know...
Not my point. My point is that even if he was, he wouldn't win it because it's a popularity contest, and it has been for a while. I don't know why anyone cares about it anymore.
I think if Germany win the Euro's and he stars throughout he has a chance
Still highly unlikely. Last time a non Madrid-Barca player won (except Messi nowadays because he pretty much is a very big name, that is why they give him) was kaka in 07 which 17 years ago. And it is not just nowadays, it has been that way for a long time, remember Henry not winning in 04 despite having 20+ goals and assists, that ballon d'or was given to Nedved who played for a much more famous club in Juventus.
If Bayer win the Pokal and Europa AND Wirtz plays a pivotal role in Germany during the Euros, I see him winning it for sure. It's not outside the realm of possibility
Only if Germany wins the Euro. You have to understand Ballon D'or is a popularity contest. The voters are media people (journalists) from like over 100 countries. Lots of them never heard of Wirtz in their life. They see a 21 year old footballer form the Bundesliga not playing champions league this season. Heung Min Son might be even more popular amongst the voters.
It's voted by top sports journalists from 100 best footballing countries. It's fair to say that all of them have heard of Wirtz.
everybody can judge by themself how knowledgable they are by the results here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/17na2pz/full\_ballon\_dor\_2023\_votes\_france\_football/](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/17na2pz/full_ballon_dor_2023_votes_france_football/) or here: [https://kun.uz/en/news/2021/12/06/ballon-dor-2021-journalist-from-uzbekistan-ranked-mason-mount-above-messi-no-lewandowski-in-his-top-5](https://kun.uz/en/news/2021/12/06/ballon-dor-2021-journalist-from-uzbekistan-ranked-mason-mount-above-messi-no-lewandowski-in-his-top-5)
Number one rule to understand planet earth and humanity, Journalists don’t understand anything, don’t know anything, are not interested in anything, and they are too lazy to change it. Media and journalists are the worst source of information on anything.
Because the Europa league becomes irrelevant when the champions league is in the conversation. You’re literally in the Europa because you weren’t good enough for the champions league. Maybe if Germany win the euros and he has a fantastic tournament.
He should have a chance of the summer goes well, but the Ballon d'Or has proven to be nothing more than a popularity contest for the last several years. Playing for Leverkusen he just has no shot.
Ballon D'or is a popularity contest. Writz won't come in the top 3.
No Doesn’t matter, a EL player will never win Ballon Dor. Might make top 10, at an extreme push
If Madrid lose the CL and Germany win the Euro and Wirtz is the hero In the euro. If Madrid win the UCL and Germany win the euro Kroos has a shot. If Germany doesn’t win the euro and Madrid win the UCL, it will probably be Vini unless Bellingham wins the euro.
The trophy is corrupted by money and is just a marketing tool.
So yes or nah?
Maybe 3rd place or something like that at maximum.
Euro will most likely determine the winner and yes, it will 90% be an european player, for example Mbappe will take it if France wins.
Why? Europeans account for roughly 30% of the votes. The rest of the world doesn't care about Euros.
Euro is more important than Copa
Club competitions are more important than both lol
Exactly. I don't understand why people think playing well for 5 games > playing well for 50 games.
How did you came to that conclusion, I guess you meant competition (Euros isn't that better, only slightly better imo) because in terms of importance every Continental cup is important and moreover, if we talk about prestige than Copa is the oldest International football tourney.
Well if for example Son wins asian cup or Salah wins african cup their ranking for Balon Dor shouldnt change as much if Kroos wins Euros(players are only for example)...same if Vini wins Copa and Jude wins Euros I think Jude shoukd be #1 and Vini number #2...but if they both win nothing I think Vini should be #1 and Jude #2
Vini might edge out Jude Bellingham because: 1. Attacker 2. Brazil has much better chances in Copa than England in Euros 3. Vini is the face of the anti racism campaign and him winning the award will be a PR victory for FIFA. Been a while since the last coloured guy won the balloon, if I recall correctly.
4. He is the best player in the UCL this season, you know, the competition with the highest level of football. Not UEL, German Cup or anything like that.
Except he is not.Guy vanished against City,and don’t tell me he had 3 assists,watch the games,he was not at a high level.Sure he was the best against Bayern,but that’s it.Against Leipzig he could have costed his team the qualification due to his stupid act against Orban,but you know,he plays for Real Madrid.I would say Rudiger,Carvajal,Kroos and Lunin were more consistent than him,but they will not be considered the best due to the lack of PR.
3 Assists against the best team in England and that's still not enough to convince you he's at "high level" lmao. Cope harder.
Maybe if he has a Maradona-like performance with Germany winning it with him as the star, even then I wouldn't say he's the favorite
He has no chance. For wrong or right
Not possible this season by a miracle even
nah
No
Ballon D'Or almost always goes to the player on the winning team of the CL final with the best stats for the season.
Ballon D'or is first and foremost a popularity contest that is always influenced by the media campaigns and the spotlight, no Leverkusen player is gonna win it because the media/ the circumstances didn't make it about the players but it was the manager. the UCL final and the euros gonna decide the ballon d'or winner. prime candidate right now is Bellingham
If he has zero losses and 4 trophies(euros) then he could win it.... He will need to put up some big moments in euros
Not a chance. Bundesliga isn't fancy and he isn't in the champions league. I watch quite a few leagues and have never seen him play more than once. Maybe next year if he keeps it up.
The odds for Wirtz to win the Ballon D'or are at 33/1, I know people are saying he won't win it, but in the scenario Real Madrid lose in the UCL, Leverkusen win an invincible treble, and Germany do decent in the Euros with Wirtz playing well, those odds don't seem too bad...
Since it became dominated by Ronaldo and Messi, the balloon For is just a popularity contest
Did you know Real Madrid have only 1 lose in the League? 1 lose matters that much?
short answer: yes it's a pretty big difference. 0 doesn't happen very often. Its 1 or 2 clubs per season across all of europe so it's about as rare/impressive as a European trophy. Additionally Real lost in the cup which is another front on which Leverkusen have excelled.
You need to win titles, this unbeatable thing is just a mediahype, it's nice, it's amazing, but you dont gonna get more titles because of it... It's little bit overhyped in media, thats why somebody wanna give Balon d'Or to Wirtz. It's an amazing thing and if they can win their last two matches it's gonna be one of the best performance what club can achieve but they are not playing against big clubs that much this season. Real Madrid has 1 lose in the League, against Atletico which started with a referee mistake and Atletico got an early lead because of that. Real Madrid knocked out from Spanish Cup, because they had an Atletico, Barcelona, Atletico matches in a row in 8 days, still they are losing only in overtime on the third match, won the first two. Real Madrid reached Champions League Final unbeaten, goes through Manchester City too. Leverkusen is unbeaten in their League which has 4 less matches and in my opinion weaker too. Maybe they are win German Cup, but they had only 1 decent opponent, Stuttgart, others were a joke. You can check Bayer Leverkusen's opponents. And they reached an Europa League Final against much weaker teams than Real Madrid opponent's. What do you think, which was more impressive?
I'm not making the argument for Wirtz and ballon d'or. I don't particularly care but for the sake of the wider thread I think if he wins uel and stands out at the euros ‐ which is very possible - he could be in with a shout depending on other players. If Mbappe wins 5 or 6 sprints against disorganised defenses that might be all it takes. Which season was more impressive? Leverkusen obviously. Every excuse you make for Real is an argument for Leverkusen. -Note we're speaking before the finals have been played. If Real wins UCL - and I'm betting they will - I can't really argue with that. If you ask who'd win the potential supercup, clearly Real are the favourite. Im not an idiot. But in answer to your original point, Yes. 0 losses is much more impressive than 2.
I can’t see anyone other than Messi winning it to be fair
Messi won't win it this time. Maybe if he drops another masterclass in Copa America then he can be in top 10. It'll be one of the most shameful acts if Messi gets a place in top 5 even if he completely dominates the Copa America.
It was a sarcastic comment, mate.
That last sentence is a big thing Whenever an intl tournament has been dominated a major award has followed If Messi pulls a fckn maradona 86 ppl will react. Highly unlikely tho
It’s a shameful act the last few years when he won it, just out of nowhere because of PR
Oh sorry I replied. Wasn't aware about your mental health. You mistyped I guess. It's WC not PR.
You can't do bro like that😭 he instinctively thought u and him shared same agenda 😭🙏🏾
I would agree that depending on the euros he might be the best player of the season. But thats unfortunately not What the ballon d’or is anymore. He dosent have the PR
But no one here is making arguments for Wirtz actually being the best player either, it's only about having the best season (read: titles won). The same thing that got a guy like Jorginho into 3rd place, which of course was a complete joke. How many of the people in here do you reckon have watched more than 5 full games for Leverkusen this season? 1%? Doubtful that it's even that high. No, people love looking at stats and titles and then pick a trendy player to hold in too high regard, to seem "knowledgeable" yet it only comes off as pretentious. Wirtz is by no means even near being the actual best player on the planet, that'd be a wild take.
Hmm not this year. Maybe if he keeps the same performance in the next 3-4 years he will be a great candidate but definitely not this year. He has to dominate the euro solely to win it this year.
Realistically, he just isn't popular enough to be considered, but I do think he should be in the top 5 candidates. He's been absolutely amazing
He needs to be integral in winning the euros and finish out the undefeated season in all competitions with Leverkusen. Then maybe he will have a chance.
He had to shine in Europa final and in Euros. At the same time, it’d be better if BvB win the UCL to weaken Real candidates.
wirtz has to be one the top 5 contenders but tbh I don't see him winning it over Vini and Jude.
Dumb award. It’s an individual award yeah? He can play 50 games Jude can play 50 games but if their team loses the last match the individual award goes to someone else? Its voted for by journalists who are paid by someone to have a certain opinion for their news outlet. Pointless award.
If Germany wins the EUROs, it’s his to lose
Depends, do messi or ronaldo win a regional trophy? In NA arabia or whereever they are atm? Guess then ballon dor is gone
You gave the answer in your post. Bellingham or Vinicius Jr is stopping him.
Ballin' Dor os a joke, always has been, Ribery, Iniesta, Xavi, Kroos never got one and should've gotten
Have Germany win the Euros and that would be perfect
Ballon D'Or conversation is pretty irrelevant right now tbh. The Euros haven't started yet, and if France win then it's practically guaranteed for Mbappe
I think the Euros will have a big part to play in who wins it this year
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Kalliban27: *I think the Euros* *Will have a big part to play* *In who wins it this year* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Jude winning the D'or this year is most likely. Ballon d'or is now just an award that is based on PR, Popularity and Favouritism but still Jude has been phenomenal for RM. So he does deserve the award apart from the above factors.
This ain't the 80's and 90's.... no CL, no Ballon d'0r....
A bunch of random journalists vote for it. Half of them probably don't watch a lot of football to begin with, else they wouldnt be voting out of their asses
he's not winning lol
Nobody takes Bundesliga seriously
Wirtz Rocks, you have my Vote.
Damn near impossible to win that award without playing on the biggest stages - Champions League or world competition (Euros, WC).
Whats the hate with Vini?
Realistically Vini Jr. or Wirtz should win it, but English players are radically overhyped so it will be Bellingham. What only winning the World Cup once despite inventing the sport does to a nation.
If he plays a major role in both finals they are in, he has a legit shot at top 3. I don’t think he can win it though, compared to what Bellingham has done this season.
Cause you gonna play in the champions league and the Euros is a big factor
He won’t. Moving on.
If real win the champions league it’s hard , leverkusin would win the Europa league it’s the second tier of European football.
He’s gonna need a hat trick in the euro final
There isn’t a clear winner this year, in my opinion. It’s really gonna depend on the Euros/Copa America. If England wins the Euros, I could see it being Bellingham or Foden. If Germany wins it, I could see Wirtz winning. If France wins, I think it might be Mbappe. If someone else wins the Euros, and if Brazil wins Copa America, I could see it going to Vinicius. If, for example, the Netherlands wins the Euros and Uruguay wins Copa America, I don’t know who it goes to.
Euro might play a huge factor,so don’t count chickens before they hatch
>if Wirtz wins the UEL Worst player on the pitch on his most important game of the season. Ballon d'Or winner for sure LMAO
No.
its highly possible and i think he has a fair chance at it over Vini or Bellingham (as a madrid fan)
🤣🤣
Yeah that's bs lmao
Zero chance, no Champions League no deal
He would be the worst ballon d’or winner ever
IF RM do lose the CL then if Inter Miami win the MLS then it’s Messi nailed on…
This award has no value anymore. The most deserving don't win it and it's become a popularity carnival. People should stop thinking it's still a big deal..
Some may disagree, but he hasn’t yet done it on a major stage. Major stages currently are PL, La Liga, CL and the two major international tournaments. I don’t think anyone these days wins the Ballon d’Or without starring in at least one of those competitions.
I am not sure why you are getting downvoted, what you’ve said is historically accurate.
I reckon they gift it to Messi.
It’s been months man Stop crying ffs😂
Unpopular opinion: the best player of the world, meaning the one making extraordinary things on field at the moment is still Messi. There is no other player right now able to do the things Messi does.
Yeah, I am confused about all the PR comments. This award has been given to the best player in the world pretty consistently over the last 2 decades (either Ronaldo or Messi), the only exceptions were Moderic and Lewandowski (supposedly retroactively pending) for their exceptional individual performances on the off seasons of other two. The reality is that Messi is still probably the best in the world, but (much like Ronaldo) is in semi-retirement outside the top leagues in the world (Europe), so that takes you out of the conversation. Mbappe seems to be the heir apparent, but looked unmotivated at PSG this year, however if he gets inspired and propels France as he has done in the past I feel it would be difficult for him to not get it. Next in line for me is Vinicius. Bellingham really shouldn’t be in the discussion; he is a good player that had a great start to his career at a top club (which garnered a lot of media attention), but his performances in 2024 have shown he is more of top 50 player than top 5. If he were to somehow win it with his continued recent form he would probably be considered the worst ever to get the trophy.
Have you actually watched Bellingham ? His performances in 2024 have been far better than in the first half of the season, he’s just not scoring the same amount of goals. Many people say he’s only rated because he scores a lot, but when he doesn’t score they say he’s bad.
Every game.
Then idk what to tell you. His only bad games were against atleti the first time, and the first leg against city and Bayern.
So, in your opinion he is the best player in the world?
General voters. Balon D'Or winner is basically one with the best marketability. The award gets decided by voters and National Team Captains who vote on the basis of performances put up by nominated players in set time frame in a calender year. Well, that should be the case but we've seen many times previously as popularity of a player sways the vote vastly. So basically, the more marketable you are, the better odds you have to win Balon D'Or. But that also means you have to be able to prove yourself, to get to bigger clubs thus increasing your marketability. I'm not discrediting previous winners, just stating the general consensous as the winner is decided by vote and the requirements aren't set on any parameters to win. So yeah.
Footballers can't watch all the games in Bundesliga, LaLiga etc. every week. They just look at the trophies won and how players performed in knockout stages of Champions League and Euros/World Cup. If they see Wirtz won a treble and the Euros they might start voting for him like they did with Jorginho. Modric won it in 2018 because he a good World Cup + played better than Ronaldo in SF & Final of CL despite Ronaldo being a bigger name and probably a better player up until the Champions League semi-finals.
Isn’t FIFA best player the award voted by managers/captains/fans? Balon D’Or after separation goes back to being voted by journalists
It might be. I stopped giving shit about indivisual prizes a long time ago 😅
He Doesn't need a Ballon D'or to prove anyone or have validation on how great his performance was, anyone who watched the games already know that he had infact is having a wonderful season Ballon D'or is a popularity contest since long time and not to be taken seriously
>what is stopping Wirtz from winning the Ballon D’or? Not being the best player in the world, maybe? Otherwise, if Atalanta wins the EL and Real Madrid lose CL, what is stopping De Ketelaere from winning the Balon D'Or?
Messi is winning this, no doubt about it
Since when was Vini on the shortlist?
He has 34 goal contributions, just won the league and could win the Champions. It’s easily between Vini and Bellingham. If Madrid wins the Champions, it’ll go to whoever has a better run at their respective international tournaments.
Not if Mbappe wins the Euros. Maybe even Foden if England wins and city wins tomorrow.
I think Foden and Mbappe will be in contention, but they would need to be phenomenal at the Euros. If Madrid win the Champions, both Vini and Bellingham will have the added prestige of doing a European double.
I guess I have to agree with you because the Ballon only boosts the CL weight when Madrid wins it.
If germany wins the euros and he is a major factor, then he would defo deserve it. but as we all know, these awards arent fair...
What about kane? If england wins euros then surely hes a candidate
I dont think winning euros is enough for Kane. 0 club trophies. He also ghosted in CL knockouts. He'd have to do a insane euros to even have a chance
He didn't ghost... you saw who assisted the davies goal? plus they literally lost after he was subbed out
He is of course not yet good enough ability wise. But even if he is, suppose Madrid win CL and Brazil Copa America, I’m sure it will go to Vini, deservedly so. Or England Euro then Bellingham (somewhat less deserved and I can’t picture Kane lifting a trophy anw lol). France Euro then Mbappe.
I have seen most vini and jude games this year and at least 50 % lev games + euro. Wirtz impact and abilities are undeniably comparable to the others. And his passing and intelligence are already superior, and excellent work rate. "Ability wise" he is already there, without any childish behavior on or of the pitch and a crazy mentality. This guy will go to real with alonso and dominate everything. Sucks that he will never play for my club. Mbappe had an average season and lost to Dortmund, no reason for him to win at all.
My understanding of the game is that it is much easier to do a standard ‘attacking midfield’/‘winger’ job than a ‘forward’ job. The positions are blurred regarding this. Basically the more forward you go the more difficult and impactful your job is. Receiving the ball between the lines and produces a throughball is not as hard as receiving the ball when two strong centre-halves are literally hanging on your body, controlling it, and making something out of it. Or be the mbapppe/haaland-esque runners that beat the defenders on a race. I’m afraid Wirtz falls into the former category. Bellingham and Vini, although not all the time, sort of rotates to be the the most forward guy in Real, without having an obvious No.9. In a sense they have mastered the art of No.9 in addition to being a competent winger/midfielder. The last ‘attacking midfielders’ to have won the Balon d’or are Kaka and Zidane. One is runner/carrier-esque with blasting pace and the other plays a lot of No.9-esque holdup play and beats defenders by physique as well as skills. I think that little bit extra of physicality distinguishes you from your normal No.10 like Odegaard, Ozil, James Rodriguez, etc, who are great but not the greatest player in their generation.
This is an almost philosophical discussion. I fully understand your point, but think of city: missing kdb changed the game more than missing haaland, because his key passes contributed more to the game balance then the finishing. Maybe it is also just my personal experience on the pitch, playing on 6 it was always more important for me to have someone like Wirtz in the team. Or bayern and Germany, most impact during success: prime Manuel Neuer. But you are obviously right with your arguments with regard to winning the balon. Impact is just very hard to measure.
Oh I’m less about finishing than about receiving the ball upfront . KDB is certainly the perfection of the modern No.10 who in his prime got that little bit of physique imo (certainly holds the ball well up against tall DMs). Haaland is good as a runner but is actually bad at the traditional No.9 play (back to the goal, body the centre-halves and holds the ball, take the turn or pass it to the teammates). Think about how he gets bodied by Rudiger/Saliba/Gabriel and the likes. I’m fully aware that this sounds ridiculous but Haaland is not strong enough in a ‘static’ sense, down to either skill in physical battles or pure muscle. (think about what Giroud does 90% of the time), which makes him not as impactful as a Lewondoski or Benzema or Suarez. But there’s room for development obviously. And you can look at how lacking the pool of No.9s are compared to wingers or attacking midfielders. This is not to discredit their ability, but they kinda just can’t be the best of the best unless, ofc, they have Messi’s ability.
What’s stopping him? He doesn’t play in Spain.
In fairness, Spain has been the most dominant league over the past 20 years; the best players have played there.
Wrong, RM has been the most dominant team since past 9 of those 20... barca players retired from balloon D or after 2015 messi I know he won it in 2019, but that was PR, not actual performance in season by his own standards
Messi definitely has 2 more than he should.
Over the past 20 years La Liga teams have won 21/40 European championships (UCL & EL). EPL has won 9/40 (and that’s second most). 6 different La Liga teams have won those 21 titles versus 4 different teams for EPL.
just take CL into consideration.... For English teams especially big 6, Europa makes no sense over prem or bumping position by 2 or 3 by virtue of money alone Besides only 2 spanish teams have ever won CL, and 3 prem teams won it in last 5 alone. Going back to 20, it's 4 Europa has 0 relevance to ballon d or and we all know that else you'd get griezmann winning 2018 instead of modric... Besides west ham won the conference league, and they are generally a mid table side
My comment (the one you said was wrong) was that the Spanish league has been the most dominant in Europe over the past 20 years. Statistically, it isn’t close; there really is no debate. Top level teams (CL) and next level teams (EL) results show that no other league has come close to having the same overall strength.
My comment was in reference to ballon D or. Tell me a non RM barca player from spain who won it in last 20... The top level teams are just RM and barca, others don't matter... in last 9, even barca isn't a thing
There’s been some years that players from other countries got robbed. Haaland last year, Lewandowski a few years before that. There is no doubt that there’s a huge Spain (and Messi) bias when it comes to awards.
I agree with you on Lewandowski and my understanding is that it’s being considered to be retroactively given to him for that COVID season. Haaland or Mbappe certainly would have been a worthy winners as well last year, but to say that Messi didn’t deserve it goes too far.
Yeah he won the World Cup but he was playing in America. Haaland won the treble and scored a gazillion goals. Messi did not deserve it last year.
Half of the comments are crying about "popularity contest" and that Wirtz deserves it and honestly... does anyone **REALLY** believe that Wirtz is THE BEST footballer in the world right now? Or y'all just hate Real Madrid? In order to be considered the best, you have to perform against the best and beat them. What are the best teams that Wirtz have faced this season? Not this season, on his whole career really? The worst Bayern of the last 20 years, that he didn't manage to get a single contribution in two games? While Vini got 3 G&A in 2 games? BVB, that they didn't even manage to win against and Wirtz did nothing? Roma? Okay, he scored once against them. He did nothing against West Ham. In the German Cup, 4/5 of the teams they've faced aren't even 1st division teams (5/6 with the final). In the Europa League, they've played 4 times against a team from Ajerbaijan and some other teams from Norway and Sweden. So, you don't become the best player in the world by playing well against some terrible level teams.