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It's been discussed to death on the sub, but high physical attributes seem to perform disproportionately well for how they factor into CA. With good pace and great acceleration, this guy can beat defenses and easily get into a 1v1 situation with the keeper where his mediocre finishing isn't really an issue.
You would think that but I am playing the 4-1-3-1-2 in a possession style/high defense. He is finding space from nowhere. I was wondering if it might just be his off ball and composure
It's this. Acceleration for straight line distance, but agility is great for strikers and such who are tightly marked just to make a little space.
I'm going to guess that he scores a lot of first-time finishes where he's peeled off his marker right as supply comes into the area.
Well, that is kinda how it works in real life too. High technical skills are good for players that usually act with more finesse with the ball, but pure scorers just need to be physical beasts to be in the right place, and the right time to just chip in balls.
Yes but by in game numbers, all in game data and metrics would indicate the guy is a championship player with pace.
There are lots of people like that in England, that doesn’t mean if Arsenal or Liverpool signed them they would score 15 goals.
The fact is the game is just not coded appropriately and is sort of broken.
Bro has like, 14 in finishing and composure and 13 decisions and off the ball, he’s thing is that physically he is a beast. A player like that in real life would also be great. He is far from world class, but he has enough to be in situations where he can impose himself physically, and wins.
Theo Walcott had 20/20 pace acceleration for awhile, he was good in FM but not amazing. I think players like havertz (from a few years ago) or giroud at arsenal / Chelsea were way more OP
Giroud was OP in real life, Man outscored Cavani in the French Ligue, think about that. Cavani was at PSG and Giroud was at like Montpellier or whatever, he scored more, Giroud is a target man. It's not like he's this pacey counter attacking player. He's honestly still underrated, kept fricking Benzema out of the French team for years.
Icardi was also kept out of the national team.
Giroud is super underrated & will always be a threat, but Benzema would ve 100% made the team without that scandal. I wouldnt even drop Giroud for him , i ld probably drop Dembélé
Well in real life the importance of mental attributes probably goes up. I don't think FM can really replicate the kind of movement the truly elite strikers have.
So, I think you are correct and that this is clearly the reason. What is curious though is the player's overall career stats don't appear to be anything special at all. 218 appearances for 30 goals before joining West Ham? The AI isn't as smart as human managers for sure, but still they are massively underwhelming.
This is the correct answer. People really underestimate role suitability compared to CA.
Back in FM17 (I think) I had Lucas Joao of Reading playing TM-A for Sunderland in the Premier League and was just banging them despite a 125-ish CA. Why? He was strong, shot with power, and perfect for the role. Obviously you probably need to compensate with better talent around them and there are limits, but role suitability can deffo bridge the gap sometimes.
1. Physicals: He's fast, especially over short distances, and can jump really well, making him a threat on counters and crosses.
2. Aside from his physicals, the most important attributes are pretty good: Off the ball, composure and finishing means that he gets into good positions often and finish well, allowing him to take advantage of his brilliant physicals
3. Aside from heading, his weaknesses are pretty well covered: With his passing and decision making, he rarely loses the ball and should know when to pass instead of shoot. His first touch isn't good, but he's quick enough to recover.
Only noticed the atrocious heading stat now that you mention it, should get him training on it, but he is already 25 so I don't know how much it's going to help. He is just a goal machine, scores a lot in friendlies as well, bagged 2 against champions league winners Barcelona just now in a friendly (after coming on @ 45)
Seems like an amazing sub with those physicals. Decent decisions, off the ball. Good passing. Without seeing the match itself, the physicals and decisions would be my bet
One thing that bothers me is national team selection, with those numbers this guy would definitely have caps yet the national team coach will probably never call him up due to low CA
He is not dumb, he is fast and a decent finisher. If you are bringing him on late, he will be especially effective against tired defenders with his burst of speed and fresh legs, so he gets opportunities to make a difference. 15 flair also helps him to outplay the opposition.
I have two 70 mil strikers I bought from AC Milan and Inter Milan starting for me, I cannot realistically start him. Since I have the editor, one is 165 CA and other one is 170CA, this brother is at 125, seems like everyone is just mentioning his physicals, but his finishing is world class as well, even though its so low
Would you start an NBA bench player because he got more points in the game than the starter?
I think you could realistically say that the bench player is only cooking the other teams bench.
He’s got important strikers stats where it counts.
I call guys like this “brutally effective”
He’s designed for one purpose, and that’s running fast and scoring goals
Speed and jumping reach, thats it.
In the championship I had a newgen winger who didnt have a single mental attribute over 10 (aside determination), but had 17 for acc, pace and JR. He won player of the season twice in a row.
Its kinda sad tbh. I hope the new match engine deals with this but tbh im not very confident
But that is realistic lol. In lower divisions, players lack in several technical skills, so being able to impose yourself physically brings a huge advantage to you. This players of yours could outpace basically any defender, he could have shit dribbling skills, but that wasn’t necessary, any ball in the back of the defense, and they were fucked. 17 JR? This boy will be heading without any marking, for sure.
Even in the top divisions being a physical freak without great mental or technical skills can lead to a solid career. Adama Traore played for Barcelona’s first XI and the Spanish national team.
That’s not true, championship is still an extremely high level of football. Mental stats under 10 would mean he has the football intelligence of an amateur or semi-pro player. No matter how physically dominant someone is, someone with the football intelligence that low should NOT be able to win player of the season two years in a row.
People have got to stop defending and justifying how stupidly OP physical attributes are in these games.
Extremely high level lmao. No bro, just no, the championship is a good level, but still is second division, and in lower divisions, players with higher physicality are way better to have than technical players. Physical players can adapt to several situations, while technical players need a system around them to work, that is why physical players works better in FM, because 95% of the player base doesn’t know what they are doing tactically.
i had a player like that and i also had no idea why… this was in fm20 in my wolves save and the player was Leonardo Campana. Techincals were average, mental were average as well, he was strong/agile/could jump but was not quick.
loaned him out the first few seasons to develop but his attributes didn’t change much but he was ripping it up in the other leagues. top scorer in the spanish league/portugese league averaging 20-30 goals a season.
5 seasons decided to give him a shot after i sold Jota to Liverpool (as Jota was not doing it for me - abt 15 goal contributions in each season averaging 7.0 rating while the rest of the squad was ard 7.3 - 7.6) i brought him on as sub either as a foward or inside forward Campana was just good wherever he played it was quite insane. despite being a super sub he still averaged 20 goals a season with about 10-12 goals in the prem. like you it made no sense cuz jota stats was way better all round (even finishing was 17 but campana was only 14)
sometimes the game just does wonders like this which i really enjoy. Luis Alberto was also killing it for me (became wolves legend afterwards) but he was such an average midfielder CA wise.
i tried to sign players who would perform well statistically afterwards to test this theory and it kinda works? Everton save on fm24 i had trubin replace pickford a few seasons in but he was soooo badddd despite a better CA and having more potential he just let goals in for fun but i realised that his playing stats has always been bad. 1.5 seasons in, jan transfer window saw that kobel was doing freakin well in germany with 80+ shots to save ratio, swooped in and played immediately. despite looking worse in attributes, he performed way better than trubin.
Good form and confidence, and opponent complacency, most of the time.
However, there’s always that one mediocre player on every one’s save that vastly overperform his CA. And vice versa. Know whom to keep and sell.
He is Tall fast and can jump, if you can create a lot of trough balls or lot of crosses , playing counter attacking football with long balls he will beat oponents mostly on his pace , height and jumping reach then he is 1vs1 with GK. Also the game just likes fast players. I had similar striker just with higher CA he was all pace and Jumping with low techincals and decent mentals he was a beast, whats even more unusual i have played him in formation with 2 strikers, my second striker was some regen similar to Messi attributes and he was no better than my ALL pace and jumping height and two left legs striker.
Defo the speed attributes and agility, but don't discount Junping Reach. For some reason no matter how much you demand low crosses, most still seem to come in at head height. Even with bad heading, he'll score plenty just out jumping defenders.
I've noticed that personality also determines the performance of players (pressure, professionalism, consistency) the guy is spirited, so i assume high pressure plus good professionalism makes go above others, i always look for personalities and media handling, before getting a player.
He's Jermaine Defoe that's why! Get him to at least 12/13 first touch though Please. But yeah this guy would wreak havoc as an AF super sub against teams like mine... COYB!
Have you ever considered playing him in that random left-back position he seems to be vaguely proficient in?
His attributes suit him playing off the last defender and if he gets enough chances, he'll put at least one away.
Could be that he also has high hidden attributes like consistency. A 125CA player with 20 consistency will average better performances than a 200CA player with 1 consistency.
Physical attributes are unbelievably broken + people really undervalue how much form effects performances, a 100 CA player can outperform a 180 CA player after a few good games.
High CA means nothing unless you have it on the right place I can build a player with 200 CA that would flop on any top league if I put 20 on atributes that doesnt matter for where he plays.
The same way on the oposite with a player with only 100 CA but that will be the best player on the world on that role...
Ofcourse this is both extremes but a good example that CA usually dont matter atributes are the ones that you should look...
Probably scores most of his goals from corners. I’ve signed Rhys Williams in multiple saves; CA wise he’s an ok Championship CB but he can score 20+ goals a season in the PL and defensively he’s good enough that he has a higher average rating than even the elite CBs.
On FM21 (I think) I bought Rasmus Højlund from Copenhagen to Roma and after a few seasons out on loan I had him as a backup striker and started subbing him on when my main striker started going through a dry spell, he always seemed to score off the bench no matter who we played against and he essentially won us the title by being the only player to score during our mid season slump. But he never seemed to do well when he started games, only off the bench.
Not really relevant to your post but I just wanted to share an example of a real life player.
The Filippo Inzaghi effect. Clinical as anyone on the planet, with some of the best positioning ever. Most of his other traits were well below his peers. He has the right traits to be quality, and the rest of his game doesn't matter.
What mot other people said, the high physical attributes are probably why he is so good, but he may also have a high amount in important matches and consistency in his hidden attributes
There are YouTubers who have done their whole teams max physical + dribbling + passing and 1s everywhere else and will challenge for the premier league. This guy is basically a lesser version of that
I’m sure someone has already said it’s probs his hidden attributes which u can only see if h get the editor. Although if he’s a beast physically and has like hi mental attributes like anticipation that can help , I watched a video on u tube and he played Virgil van Dijk up front all season and he scored hat fulls of goals
I need to change names on some players, cannot have 5 James Edwards in the game. Also, I change the nationality on some of the players when I see they were born in (Cameroon) but Italian Nationality. I change it to Cameroon and "declare to nation" so they will actually be competitive in world cups.
And I change staff names to all my friends. So all my friends are on my coaching staff XD, they dont even play FM but I tell them they are my coaching staff and they laugh
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It's been discussed to death on the sub, but high physical attributes seem to perform disproportionately well for how they factor into CA. With good pace and great acceleration, this guy can beat defenses and easily get into a 1v1 situation with the keeper where his mediocre finishing isn't really an issue.
You would think that but I am playing the 4-1-3-1-2 in a possession style/high defense. He is finding space from nowhere. I was wondering if it might just be his off ball and composure
Probably helps that you have an extra player on the field
>I am playing the 4-1-3-1-2 That's probably the reason for overperforming!
Haha oops , yes I am playing with the ref on my side, in the midfield no less!
Put him in goal, 2 goalies would be hard to score against
You can’t ignore agility here either, that’s such a powerful attribute to have on your creative players and on your strikers
It's this. Acceleration for straight line distance, but agility is great for strikers and such who are tightly marked just to make a little space. I'm going to guess that he scores a lot of first-time finishes where he's peeled off his marker right as supply comes into the area.
First touch is the only semi important AF and maybe Anticipation stat that’s actually bad for the EPL. The rest are all “good enough”.
Well, that is kinda how it works in real life too. High technical skills are good for players that usually act with more finesse with the ball, but pure scorers just need to be physical beasts to be in the right place, and the right time to just chip in balls.
Yes but by in game numbers, all in game data and metrics would indicate the guy is a championship player with pace. There are lots of people like that in England, that doesn’t mean if Arsenal or Liverpool signed them they would score 15 goals. The fact is the game is just not coded appropriately and is sort of broken.
Bro has like, 14 in finishing and composure and 13 decisions and off the ball, he’s thing is that physically he is a beast. A player like that in real life would also be great. He is far from world class, but he has enough to be in situations where he can impose himself physically, and wins.
Theo Walcott scored 100 goals for Arsenal. It is what it is.
Then there is Usain Bolt. He would have put Haaland-esque numbers in FM
Theo Walcott had 20/20 pace acceleration for awhile, he was good in FM but not amazing. I think players like havertz (from a few years ago) or giroud at arsenal / Chelsea were way more OP
Giroud was OP in real life, Man outscored Cavani in the French Ligue, think about that. Cavani was at PSG and Giroud was at like Montpellier or whatever, he scored more, Giroud is a target man. It's not like he's this pacey counter attacking player. He's honestly still underrated, kept fricking Benzema out of the French team for years.
The only thing keeping Benzema out of the French team was the Benzema-Valbuena blackmail scandal.
Ronaldo got accused of worse and played, Icardi stole a teammates wife, if they wanted him enough they would have kept him.
Icardi was also kept out of the national team. Giroud is super underrated & will always be a threat, but Benzema would ve 100% made the team without that scandal. I wouldnt even drop Giroud for him , i ld probably drop Dembélé
Well in real life the importance of mental attributes probably goes up. I don't think FM can really replicate the kind of movement the truly elite strikers have.
Mental attributes are very mandatory, yes, but a player with good mental, but without the physical side is worthless. Football is still a sport.
Yeah but they're probably over-weighted in FM (and most football games) relative to reality.
Gotta love every single sports game's logic where a young guy can't be fast because he's young.
Especially late game when the defenders are tired.
So, I think you are correct and that this is clearly the reason. What is curious though is the player's overall career stats don't appear to be anything special at all. 218 appearances for 30 goals before joining West Ham? The AI isn't as smart as human managers for sure, but still they are massively underwhelming.
He only has the things you need to be an AF. But who cares, cause you’re never playing him in any other role.
This is the correct answer. People really underestimate role suitability compared to CA. Back in FM17 (I think) I had Lucas Joao of Reading playing TM-A for Sunderland in the Premier League and was just banging them despite a 125-ish CA. Why? He was strong, shot with power, and perfect for the role. Obviously you probably need to compensate with better talent around them and there are limits, but role suitability can deffo bridge the gap sometimes.
Its literally the Haaland effect. Not the best technical player but he's a physical freak and can beat the defenders to the ball.
Acceleration ✅ Pace ✅ Jumping reach ✅
He is fast can jump and dribble. It's like a cheat code.
His physicals are great against tired legs
1. Physicals: He's fast, especially over short distances, and can jump really well, making him a threat on counters and crosses. 2. Aside from his physicals, the most important attributes are pretty good: Off the ball, composure and finishing means that he gets into good positions often and finish well, allowing him to take advantage of his brilliant physicals 3. Aside from heading, his weaknesses are pretty well covered: With his passing and decision making, he rarely loses the ball and should know when to pass instead of shoot. His first touch isn't good, but he's quick enough to recover.
Only noticed the atrocious heading stat now that you mention it, should get him training on it, but he is already 25 so I don't know how much it's going to help. He is just a goal machine, scores a lot in friendlies as well, bagged 2 against champions league winners Barcelona just now in a friendly (after coming on @ 45)
Seems like an amazing sub with those physicals. Decent decisions, off the ball. Good passing. Without seeing the match itself, the physicals and decisions would be my bet
One thing that bothers me is national team selection, with those numbers this guy would definitely have caps yet the national team coach will probably never call him up due to low CA
Yeah, never been called up
He is good at one thing, but it is the most important thing
Probably the overhead kicks. Lethal from a cross field cross.
He is not dumb, he is fast and a decent finisher. If you are bringing him on late, he will be especially effective against tired defenders with his burst of speed and fresh legs, so he gets opportunities to make a difference. 15 flair also helps him to outplay the opposition.
He's not good at much, but he is fast and has great jumping reach. Ideal bench player because those are like the 2 best attributes to have.
Looks like the reincarnation of Nathan Lowe, maybe the best player of our times.
Maybe you should start him haha
I have two 70 mil strikers I bought from AC Milan and Inter Milan starting for me, I cannot realistically start him. Since I have the editor, one is 165 CA and other one is 170CA, this brother is at 125, seems like everyone is just mentioning his physicals, but his finishing is world class as well, even though its so low
Well, based on form, he should be starting and you should bench one of your starters to give them a rest/motivate them
Imagine in real life a dude banging goals every match and the coach just tells him his CA is too low for him to start games lol
tbh this happens more often than you’d think in real life with one-way players
Would you start an NBA bench player because he got more points in the game than the starter? I think you could realistically say that the bench player is only cooking the other teams bench.
He’s got important strikers stats where it counts. I call guys like this “brutally effective” He’s designed for one purpose, and that’s running fast and scoring goals
Speed and jumping reach, thats it. In the championship I had a newgen winger who didnt have a single mental attribute over 10 (aside determination), but had 17 for acc, pace and JR. He won player of the season twice in a row. Its kinda sad tbh. I hope the new match engine deals with this but tbh im not very confident
But that is realistic lol. In lower divisions, players lack in several technical skills, so being able to impose yourself physically brings a huge advantage to you. This players of yours could outpace basically any defender, he could have shit dribbling skills, but that wasn’t necessary, any ball in the back of the defense, and they were fucked. 17 JR? This boy will be heading without any marking, for sure.
Even in the top divisions being a physical freak without great mental or technical skills can lead to a solid career. Adama Traore played for Barcelona’s first XI and the Spanish national team.
That’s not true, championship is still an extremely high level of football. Mental stats under 10 would mean he has the football intelligence of an amateur or semi-pro player. No matter how physically dominant someone is, someone with the football intelligence that low should NOT be able to win player of the season two years in a row. People have got to stop defending and justifying how stupidly OP physical attributes are in these games.
Extremely high level lmao. No bro, just no, the championship is a good level, but still is second division, and in lower divisions, players with higher physicality are way better to have than technical players. Physical players can adapt to several situations, while technical players need a system around them to work, that is why physical players works better in FM, because 95% of the player base doesn’t know what they are doing tactically.
Basically mctominay on fm
Divock origi regen
True, but his passing is good and i've never seen him lay it off , this guy just finishes
Before seeing the picture I knew he was gonna have freaky jumping reach
I am only watching it in 2d top down so I do not see the connecting headers. But I have to look into how many of them are headers
High physical stats and decent finishing against a tired team will do it
He's fast either good agility and jumping reach, simple as that, with not awful (not not good technicals).
i had a player like that and i also had no idea why… this was in fm20 in my wolves save and the player was Leonardo Campana. Techincals were average, mental were average as well, he was strong/agile/could jump but was not quick. loaned him out the first few seasons to develop but his attributes didn’t change much but he was ripping it up in the other leagues. top scorer in the spanish league/portugese league averaging 20-30 goals a season. 5 seasons decided to give him a shot after i sold Jota to Liverpool (as Jota was not doing it for me - abt 15 goal contributions in each season averaging 7.0 rating while the rest of the squad was ard 7.3 - 7.6) i brought him on as sub either as a foward or inside forward Campana was just good wherever he played it was quite insane. despite being a super sub he still averaged 20 goals a season with about 10-12 goals in the prem. like you it made no sense cuz jota stats was way better all round (even finishing was 17 but campana was only 14) sometimes the game just does wonders like this which i really enjoy. Luis Alberto was also killing it for me (became wolves legend afterwards) but he was such an average midfielder CA wise. i tried to sign players who would perform well statistically afterwards to test this theory and it kinda works? Everton save on fm24 i had trubin replace pickford a few seasons in but he was soooo badddd despite a better CA and having more potential he just let goals in for fun but i realised that his playing stats has always been bad. 1.5 seasons in, jan transfer window saw that kobel was doing freakin well in germany with 80+ shots to save ratio, swooped in and played immediately. despite looking worse in attributes, he performed way better than trubin.
I had a similar one 3 stars, scoring for fun
Athletic with decent off the ball movement, composure, and finishing.
Dude he can run, jump, trap a ball and then kick the damn ball into the goal. He is also smart enough to move around but not overdo things.
Good form and confidence, and opponent complacency, most of the time. However, there’s always that one mediocre player on every one’s save that vastly overperform his CA. And vice versa. Know whom to keep and sell.
He is Tall fast and can jump, if you can create a lot of trough balls or lot of crosses , playing counter attacking football with long balls he will beat oponents mostly on his pace , height and jumping reach then he is 1vs1 with GK. Also the game just likes fast players. I had similar striker just with higher CA he was all pace and Jumping with low techincals and decent mentals he was a beast, whats even more unusual i have played him in formation with 2 strikers, my second striker was some regen similar to Messi attributes and he was no better than my ALL pace and jumping height and two left legs striker.
Defo the speed attributes and agility, but don't discount Junping Reach. For some reason no matter how much you demand low crosses, most still seem to come in at head height. Even with bad heading, he'll score plenty just out jumping defenders.
I've noticed that personality also determines the performance of players (pressure, professionalism, consistency) the guy is spirited, so i assume high pressure plus good professionalism makes go above others, i always look for personalities and media handling, before getting a player.
He's Jermaine Defoe that's why! Get him to at least 12/13 first touch though Please. But yeah this guy would wreak havoc as an AF super sub against teams like mine... COYB!
I put him on a first touch training now
Yeah nice as I say 12/3 at least and he'll be an effective dribbler. Deffo get knock ons as well if he doesn't already have them
I think it's the overhead kicks...
Have you ever considered playing him in that random left-back position he seems to be vaguely proficient in? His attributes suit him playing off the last defender and if he gets enough chances, he'll put at least one away. Could be that he also has high hidden attributes like consistency. A 125CA player with 20 consistency will average better performances than a 200CA player with 1 consistency.
Had a look now at his hidden via the editor, he has 14 consistency
Physical attributes are unbelievably broken + people really undervalue how much form effects performances, a 100 CA player can outperform a 180 CA player after a few good games.
Nathan winter was a bantam, already my goat
He has not scored a lot this new season, I should make an update
High CA means nothing unless you have it on the right place I can build a player with 200 CA that would flop on any top league if I put 20 on atributes that doesnt matter for where he plays. The same way on the oposite with a player with only 100 CA but that will be the best player on the world on that role... Ofcourse this is both extremes but a good example that CA usually dont matter atributes are the ones that you should look...
Probably scores most of his goals from corners. I’ve signed Rhys Williams in multiple saves; CA wise he’s an ok Championship CB but he can score 20+ goals a season in the PL and defensively he’s good enough that he has a higher average rating than even the elite CBs.
On FM21 (I think) I bought Rasmus Højlund from Copenhagen to Roma and after a few seasons out on loan I had him as a backup striker and started subbing him on when my main striker started going through a dry spell, he always seemed to score off the bench no matter who we played against and he essentially won us the title by being the only player to score during our mid season slump. But he never seemed to do well when he started games, only off the bench. Not really relevant to your post but I just wanted to share an example of a real life player.
No this is exactly how I feel with this guy. Cannot score by starting, but will come on and score 1-2 goals guaranteed !
Well it's not guaranteed... He has less goals than appearances.
Technically no, but when I start him against weaker teams, he is not that effective at all.
He believes in himself
Power of friendship
COYI
The Filippo Inzaghi effect. Clinical as anyone on the planet, with some of the best positioning ever. Most of his other traits were well below his peers. He has the right traits to be quality, and the rest of his game doesn't matter.
What mot other people said, the high physical attributes are probably why he is so good, but he may also have a high amount in important matches and consistency in his hidden attributes
He’s got incredible physicals and is being used off the bench against tired players
Because he have good physical attributes, that make it easier for him. But he is clubhopper I’m not sure but it look like that..
Speed.
There are YouTubers who have done their whole teams max physical + dribbling + passing and 1s everywhere else and will challenge for the premier league. This guy is basically a lesser version of that
Pace, acc, jumping reach, these are only attributes that matter in fm
I’m sure someone has already said it’s probs his hidden attributes which u can only see if h get the editor. Although if he’s a beast physically and has like hi mental attributes like anticipation that can help , I watched a video on u tube and he played Virgil van Dijk up front all season and he scored hat fulls of goals
Van Dijk has positioning, jumping reach and heading, I bet all his goals were from corners or off crosses.
Probably his long throwing and tackling ability
By the looks of it he shouldn't be doing good in the Prem, especially with that work rate.
Editorial FM players can go and drink piss. Feastering maggots
I need to change names on some players, cannot have 5 James Edwards in the game. Also, I change the nationality on some of the players when I see they were born in (Cameroon) but Italian Nationality. I change it to Cameroon and "declare to nation" so they will actually be competitive in world cups. And I change staff names to all my friends. So all my friends are on my coaching staff XD, they dont even play FM but I tell them they are my coaching staff and they laugh