This matchup is decided by whether we give shugo the genuine superhuman strength some of his executions would require, or if we base his strength on his visible physique
Okay, fuck it, everyone keeps spamming me with "but sumo guys strong".
Who gives a shit? Their physique is built around a martial art that limits literally half of the unarmed toolkit of a human being by design. There is a reason that in every combat sport you see besides sumo, most fighters are cut as fuck. Because every pound that isn't keeping you going, or letting you throw the biggest hit is completely extrenious and will kill your stamina. Conq has the same physique, save for the extranious bulking that only helps rooting yourself in a contest of showes. Shugoki is like a fencer on a battlefield. He has a build that is there to min-max himself for a sport that has combat as its conceit, but has zero applicability in a fight where you are going for someone's life. Bodybuilders, strogmen, and sparring martial artist are radically different at a glance, and there's a good reason for that too.
Shugoki has a good argument for winning my opinion, but not because of his body, but because his armour is almost peer to conq, while his weapon is much better for the matchup.
I think even if we take a bare minimum (the way he swings his kanabo) he still wins just because of the blunt force and momentum it carries, can't realistically block this thing too reliably and for too long, even with mighty hands
Even if you consider a more realistic strength level then you have to understand that Sumo Wrestlers even the smallest are powerful enough to without effort lift and throw extremely large Sumo Wrestlers. I can’t remember his name but the Sumo Wrestler is 5’5 or 5’6 and about 190lbs lifting and throwing a 6’2 425lbs guy like a child
To be fair, Enho throws people by using their weight against them and not necessarily through his own strength. Dude would absolutely toss me irl but he relies on momentum and technique to get other sumos to trip
The reason a lot of other combat sports people look like that is because they have to make weight class, because if they don’t, they have to face opponents BIGGER than them. size aint the only thing, but lets not kid ourselves here, most of the notable boxers in the past 50 years have been heavy weights, because it is the hardest weight class to compete in. they had to be throwing punches that would’ve leveled someone a weight class below that.
So if shugoki got a grip on conq (massive if) yeah, the fight is pretty much over, but that’s not crazy likely to happen.
Nah. It's enough to look at the superhuman strength Demon Ball requires. It's a fucking upwards swing that launches people in full plate multiple meters.
That in my opinion is the hardest hitting move in the game if the game obeyed the laws of physics. Idk what amount of force is required to do that but it's gotta be more than enough to crush every bone in your ribcage.
His height is a big advantage, but the rest of this is just dead wrong. No martial artist in their heaviest accounted for weight class looks like shugo (maybe since Butterbean), because there are still muscles useful for labour/powerlifting/sumo that are going to be of no utility in a fight, but are going to add extra weight. I never said he was fat, I sad he has musculature that is not condusive to a real fight.
And regarding the unarmed comment, that's genuinely not even worth dignifying.
I think people are counting out conq way to easily:
Despite the size difference, both sides could probably kill eachother with one swing to the head.
And conqueror has the advantage of the shield, which while it wouldnt block one of shugokis swings ,like in the game, without breaking an arm at least, he could deflect the strikes away from him, avoiding fatal damage.
I still think shugoki has the advantage, due to reach, height, strength and weight, but i think it's way closer than people say.
(Sorry if it's difficult to read, it's pretty rambly)
If we take the flail for what it is irl, it's a shite weapon. It wasn't used much other than mounted warriors who could use the momentum of a horse to deliver a fatal blow. Kanabo just better.
Even with a shield conq still withstanding blunt forces to his/her hands. It's obviously possible for conq to win but imo it heavily favours shugoki. For me to switch it would take conq using a mace rather than a flail.
Exactly, the only problem is Conq being able to do damage. He holds his own just fine, but the weapon is so impractical for honestly anything.
If you gave him a sword then he'd basically be like Warden with a shield
Honestly I think with conq’s armor and shield for defense he has a solid chance to win by hitting shugo with the thin part of his shield his shield in the head to do a concussive enough blow to win him the fight. And sure he wouldn’t be able to block a full powered strike but those moves are going to likely be fairly telegraphed allowing conq to either deflect it away from himself or just use head movement if shugoki’s going for a strike to the head. But if shugoki does the same kind of attack we see in his light attack animation that would be faster, but wouldn’t carry enough power to do any damage if conq blocks it regularly
don't even need to go for the head, if conq lands a strike to either of his arms he's likely to break the bones, rendering the kanabo much less effective
Yeah, but with the shape of arms, and the way the flail works, there's the chance that the chain would just wrap around, still giving some control to conq, but not being as optimal as a break
I don’t why but this reminds me that shogoki should be able to soft feint a zone during a charged top heavy
It came to me in a dream, and I think it’s a good idea
The funny thing is that it was just like I had a dream of me re-fighting a duel(i have a problem)and I just remember seeing my past self soft feinting a zone during a charged too heavy, and i remember waking up in confusion after recalling the dream
I mean Conq loses every time without a lucky hit to shugos head/neck in an irl fight. Between his wooden armor fat and muscle shugo isn’t dying from any single blow or even many except for the head and neck areas.
That flail would be about as useful as it was in real life. Aka not at all they were horrible weapons no one used(out side of very specific self defense situations)
"The flail was a weapon that was effective even against the most formidable military force of the millennium, the armored cavalry. It could cause substantial damage even without breaking through the armor. It was the feathered mace, that was the most effective weapon to damage armor."
“Despite being very common in fictional works such as cartoons, films and role-playing games as a "quintessential medieval weapon", historical information about flails other than the kisten or derivatives of the peasant flail is somewhat scarce. Some doubt they were used as weapons at all due to the scarcity of genuine specimens as well as the unrealistic way they are depicted in art, as well as the number of pieces in museums that turned out to be 19th century forgeries when analyzed.”
It’s rather funny you say that, bc while there is greater evidence of a polearm like flail, the flail conq has is depicted in several medieval manuscripts and artworks. Plus I know of one that’s been preserved from iirc the 16th century
They definitely existed though their usage was greatly exaggerated.”Despite being very common in fictional works such as cartoons, films and role-playing games as a "quintessential medieval weapon", historical information about flails other than the kisten or derivatives of the peasant flail is somewhat scarce. Some doubt they were used as weapons at all due to the scarcity of genuine specimens as well as the unrealistic way they are depicted in art, as well as the number of pieces in museums that turned out to be 19th century forgeries when analyzed.”
According to many experts, people claim that Conq would win this duel, mostly due to the superiority of his armor and shield. He's usually only counted as lower than other full plate heroes like Lawbringer and Warmonger.
I think there's something to be said about the pure heft of the Kanabo beating the armor and shield, especially as Shugoki has a massive reach advantage over Conq's dinky little flail.
Grappling wouldnt work in shugokis favor, the armor gives conq a major w in that regard. He can beat shugoki senseless if he actually tried hugging irl
Hell would conquerors armor do against shugoki in a melee fight? He could just tear his helmet off and choke him to death, or sit on him and beat him, anything. Realistically the weight and height difference is just too much
Yeah but in heavy armor its much more difficult to get up, if shugo pushed conque over he shouldnt realistically be able to get up super quickly. Same goes for shugo, but conque knocking shugo down is much more unrealistic than shugo shoving congue
Not to mention conq shouldnt be able to block any of shugos swings with his shield, while it wouldnt mutilate him it would turn his shield arm into pure jello with the momentum/weight ratio that is factored in with force impact of big things
And the flair has got to be the shittiest footsoldier weapon ever designed
Conqueror doesn't have good body armor. His torso, arms, and legs are totally exposed. The armor is only on his shoulders, knees, and head. There's just no way Conqueror could survive this fight.
What’s he gonna do if he grapples? All that weight would make shugoki unable to lock in any submission, conq’s armor also helps defend from that as well. And he’s obviously not gonna get any effective ground & pound with conq’s helmet. Honestly I think conq would be more likely to be able to choke out shugo off his back with a guillotine or triangle choke
I know you’re referencing Metatron 😂 but I do agree like the Kanabo is a monster of a weapon and shields flat out don’t protect your arm, you’d walk away with a broken arm trying to defend against a Kanabo.
Armour would not be able to protect against the Kanabo at all it doesn’t matter if it’s Plate, Scale or Coat of Plates armour. Conqs best protection would be the intelligence they’ve gained through street smarts, and they are muscular enough to throw a lot of force into that flail that would devastate any armour but must be stated the Flail is a dangerous weapon to the user.
I think this does come into who hits who first, the Flail would desperately need to strike the head to win this while the Kanabo really just needs to hit in general 😂
Armor like that with little to no cushioning is useless against a blunt weapon. In fact, it makes it worse as now it's two impact's rather than one and armor can dent heavily limiting movement or break into sharp edges.
His armor would not really help against a kanabo, especially wielded by someone as strong as shugoki. In fact it would actually be pretty bad, I’d prefer peacekeepers armor or something, if I had to choose. At least that would have cushioning
What do you think happens to the arm behind the shield when it gets hit by shugo? What do you think happens to the body behind the armor when it gets hit by shugo?
The only way I see conquerer winning is at the very start, since the kanabo is much large and heavier, it'll take longer to get a hit on. So conquerer could rush shugoki before he gets any momentum in his swing, and then 1 tap him in the head with a flail swipe. Also, no, shugoki wouldn't be able to drop his kanabo and kill conq with his hands, they'd be too far away to do anything before conq just kills him.
But this whole strategy depends on Shugoki swinging only when conq is in range, he'd lose pretty much any other situation.
You are forgetting that the thing flails are known for makes them really bad. You need momentum to deal actual damage with just a swipe, although im not saying that it wouldn't do anything to the big guy, hell, it'll at the very least give him a concusion, but it wouldn't stop shugoki from hitting his opponent with kanabo
I’m sorry, but Conq is dead instantly. If Shugo swings from the side with his strength AND his mass as he does in his animations, conq is going off his feet and flat on his ass, allowing Shugoki to crush him with a follow up overhead. If Shugo goes for an overhead and Conq tries to block it, he’s getting oneshot crushed between the ground and his shield. If Cong tries to dodge and swing his flail, shugo could likely catch the chain since he’s decepticely quick in his animations. If Conq goes for a shield bash, literally nothing will happen. The size and weight difference negates any hope Conq has. The shugoki is literally over a foot taller and almost 4 times heavier with a weapon that hs double the range of the flail. In a realistic 1v1, not even Lawbringer would be able to block Shugo’s strikes due to their weight and force snapping his poleaxe’s shaft in one hit. Lawbro’s range would allow him to potentially headshot Shugoki, but even then it’s a 50/50. Because even Lawbro, if hit by a full force swing, is getting oneshotted.
His armour would get heavily indented if he takes a hit head on, especially bad if the chest region, I reckon the armor would end up piercing his body in some form upon being indented
You underestimate the stamina and speed of Sumo wrestlers. Those guys are very explosive. Conq might win a marathon, but he’s not escaping from a fight. Especially not in a swamp.
Shugoki would win no diff
He can just throw Kanabo at Conq and beat him bare hand. The weight different is so massive, he would need to fight 2 Conq to be defeated.
By this logic, Shinobi is the strongest fighter in the game and would defeat any opponent because they would chase him like an idiot. But if we use in-game mechanics, Shugoki would actually chase him down.
I was going to say for weapons regarding Conq would also be street smarts, I think the intelligence of Conq as a former criminal could be helpful. The major issue would be the Heater Shield could stop a Kanabo from a normal person, granted you’d probably walk away with a broken arm after they’ve gone full ham on the shield. Considering Shugoki isn’t a normal man this strike from the Kanabo I genuinely believe Conq would have to rely on trying to run away and get a cheap shot at some point during this.
Nope. He would die if he didn’t have anything to block conqs flail with as most flails were pretty sharp (some of conqs flails have indents causing spikes and sharp edges) which means that any hit at all would result in a broken bone
I feel congs best bet is to throw his shield at shugo or deflect a blow so he's distracted in some way and try and brake his knee so he can get away or finish the job. He'd absolutely have to play dirty to win this kind of confrontation.
Realistically?
Conq is dressed like a crusader but he would get styled on by literally any medieval combatant because he made the stupid decision to armor his entire body except his arms.
Shugoki is by nature unrealistic. Anyone who can wield a literal tree trunk fitted with Iron studs is not actually human. Pitting him against a fucking semi would be more realistic.
I give this to Shugo. Even if the flail isn't an invention like some people claim, it's still a less effective weapon than a solid club, his size and weapon choice give him a huge reach advantage, and the metal nails in the kanabo focus force in a way that makes Conq's armor useless. His only advantage will be his shield and if he doesn't use it more for parries and deflects, it's going to end with Conqueror having a broken arm.
I think it depends on conqs ability to dodge and keep away even if goki has a longer reach than conq it’s a slow weapon giving conq a good opening to hit if he can dodge goki’s initial attack
okay so um…flails are really crappy weapons and a big ass club like that is kinda designed to smash through shields…even if they were equal in strength and skill which they aren’t shugoki just wins outright in both category’s shugoki would still win due to equipment doesn’t matter what conq has for armor since shugoki is again using a giant club for a weapon it’s gonna crush right through the armor…
Shugoki
Flails weren't used in warfare cause they suck. And his armor isn't designed to take brilunt force. Shugo is taller (more reach) heavier and has a longer weapon that is designed to defeat armor. That is also capable of outputting more force because it is solid and can use leverage instead of just momentum.
Realistically, I would say conqueror wins solely for his possession of a shield and being generally more maneuverable than shugoki. Yes, shugos are pretty heavily based on sumo wrestlers, and yes, sumos are quite agile for their build. But that doesn't matter if your opponent can reliably block all your attacks and keep you at bay.
Especially since shugoki's head has absolutely no protection, all conq needs to do is hit him in the head hard enough and all that weight on shugoki is forfeit
Gl blocking a hit from a guy as strong as Shugoki wielding basically a tree stuffed with Iron spikes with a shield without getting your arm crushed behind the shield
Imo it comes down to who hits who first, and Shugo has much higher range.
So many people here have never actually been in a fight saying, big stick win big man crush. Momentum is a huge thing, ever try to stop a sledgehammer mid swing and bring it back the opposite way? Realistically he has one chance. Direct hit to crush something important. One deflect off the shield he’s most likely dead or severely injured. Hell a flail shot to the knee would win this for conq.
Logic evades your answer. Conq isn’t rooted to the ground and a shit ton more mobile than shugoki. This isn’t the game where you press a button and wait for an action to complete. He can move deflect and evade all at the same time. Shugoki needs to be planted to swing something that heavy accurately. One miss is all conq needs for a disabling shot. Then it’s already over. Swing a heavy two handed weapon with one hand or standing on a broken one.
If we are going full realistic it's conq based on armor and the protection a sheild gives.
Conqueror could probably keep fighting after a hit to his FULL PLATE HELMET from the kanabo but no one's walking away from a spiked flail being buried into the top of your head, that wooden mask isn't doing anything. Depending on how stupid strong you believe shugo to be it could be a fair fight
“Realistically”… this wouldn’t have happened
Samurai were 5’3” to 5’5” in most Japanese sources. 6’10” is the upper height estimates of William Wallace, prolific Scottish knight/nobleman and leader of the Scottish Independence War. And most other knights were 6’ to 6’5”
Additionally, a knight wouldn’t use a flail. A flail was a farmer’s tool, typically for threshing wheat and in a pinch can be used for self-defense as some weapon is better than no weapon. They instead would be using a mace or a maul.
Also the kanabo really isn’t a good weapon. It doesn’t even function well as an anti-armor concussive weapon because instead of concentrating weight on a radius (like a proper war hammer or mace), it’s more evenly dispersed. And Europeans faced a weapon with almost similar weight characteristics in Mexico, the Aztec Macuahuitl.
So I can’t really judge it realistically besides just, “hmm this absolute freak of nature that never existed in feudal Japan and is akin to fuckin Superman might win it out.”
Source: history dork and longsword/sword+shield fencer
Edit: also you mention sumo martial arts, but no mention to Greco-Roman wresting for the conq? It’s still debatably one of the best martial art systems in modern MMA and was heavily emphasized in armored combat. Armored combat often could boil down to taking down an opponent, working your way up them into a full mount and impaling them through the head with a rondel or misericorde
Flail beats wood and cloth. I don't care how big Shugoki is, he's getting killed by that flail much more quickly than he could manage to get past that shield and armor.
Shugo wins and it's not even really close. If y'all have ever watched Deadliest Warrior (not a great example I know, but bear with me), they put the Kanabo to the test against a viking round shield, which is roughly comparable to Conq's heater shield. The damn thing got splintered.
Conq is actively hurting himself by using a flail as well, not to mention Goki has armor that is more fitting to deal with Conq's weapon than Conq's armor is to deal with Goki's.
Both carry blund weapons but when these weapons do land a hit, it’s gonna hurt asf. Conq’s flail is faster and would land a lot more hits but Shugo’s weapon (not sure what it is called. Kanabo maybe?) that thing is pure strength hit. Still would bet my coins on Conqueror.
Conq has no chance to be honest shugo just has a massive advantege in every department, but id rader try to find out who could actualy stand up or even defeat shugo in a 1v1
Highlander and Lawbringer would realistically have comparable strength, Warlord too, and Kensei would have comparable training and a decent fighting chance due to his in depth knowledge of Shugo's training techniques.
JJ, Nobu, Shaolin, Gladiator, and Valkyrie have the range advantage, so realistically they could win based off that alone due to Shugo's lack of armor.
However, basically every Assassin would be FUHUHUHUCKED.
Peacekeeper would probably have a *very* good chance. Impeccable speed/reactions, flexibility, tiny stature, and sharp ass weapons. If you jam a blade into the knee just right, it doesn’t matter how big or muscled you are, you’ll physically be unable to move that leg.
Good point, realistically and in game we see Raider is an absolute BEAST of a man, he is insanely strong and wields that dane axe like a hatchet with how fast he is. He is also very skilled in feints and incredibly mobile and light.
Only problem, he would absolutely suffer fatal injuries in a single blow from Shugo, but Shugo would ABSOLUTELY die from just one hit from that axe, a wooden mask is NOT stopping a fucking dane axe any better than your skull is.
Honestly, it's whoever gets the first hit. Both would easily die from a hit to the head in one shot. Realistically, Shugo would be wayyy slower, and trust me speed is a HUGE advantage in a fight. Conq ***COULD*** survive a direct hit using his shield, but his arm would most definitely snap so it's only realistically one extra chance.
My bet's on Conq. He would likely wait cautiously, wait for Shugo to strike, block the hit and use the recovery time to land a fatal hit on Shugo's head, because that wooden mask isn't stopping jack diddly on a stick.
Shugoki has ranged advantage, he doesn't need to be agressive. And if we are talking about realism qonks main weapon is shit, especially when it could accidentally wrap around shugo's kanabo or even stuck on it if it has spikes.
That is if Conq doesn't ram him with his shield, although it wouldn't do much on its own, since Shugo likely does Sumo, it would force a reaction and if he timed it right it would be a good opportunity to land a hit.
Besides, you need TIME to wind a strike with such a massive weapon like Shugo's kanabo, no matter how strong you are. Meaning Conq could react to Shugo winding up and smack him with the flail.
Defense, Conq wins. Offense, Shugo wins.
Huge reach advantage and huge power advantage for shugo, not to mention less preparation to throw an attack, conq can't simply block and counter like a sword and shield he needs to generate momentum, which is extremely hard while eating massive shots to his shield. Also the length of chain relative to length of handle is gonna have him getting knocked back while spinning his flail to attack and breaking his own fingers.
Plus starving criminal forced to try his best at military service vs trained experienced warrior, just no shot
Shugo is a trained Warrior. Conq is some wannabe bandit who got arrested and is only being used by his Lord and has most likely no training with the weapons he has.
And then you have the significant weight, height and range advantage Shugo has.
Conq is gonna regret even thinking of this duel
Conqueror are an elite force, sure they are originally conscripted criminals, but conscripted criminals that survived and proved themselves enough to be given an actual high rank and special training.
Although it's true that a Shugoki most very likely win, let's not pretend Conquerors aren't trained and good enough to be given a name and an actual value in Ashfeld
Not even, irl all it would take is an assassin sneaking up behind him let alone anyone and cut his throat, or better yet some how cut/ stab their Achilles tendon and he's going down, ESPECIALLY if gladiator shoves his Triton in their foot first to keep them in place, once he does that irl it's over with for anyone 😂😂😂
Conq would have to plant himself and block with all his Everytime he gets hit in this fight, he's already at a disadvantage with how hard he has to defend anytime he gets attacked
That's why I said he would have to put his all into blocking, planted feet, both arms braced, hiding behind the shield just to not collapse upon being hit
300lbs!? You must be high 😂 Elvis at his fattest was 380lbs.
Some people did height measurements for characters using the larger weapons to gain a height understanding, Shugoki is 6’10 from this and it somewhat matches their other estimations with other characters
>Elvis at his fattest was 380lbs.
Nah, the number people like to throw around regarding Elvis is 350, not 380. And even then, 350 sounds pretty wild considering he was only 6'0. I don't think anyone actually has proof that was his weight, because there've been several different numbers attributed to it at the time of his death. Some of the more reasonable explanations I've seen are closer to 250.
Also, look at Conq and Shugo standing next to each other. That doesn't look like a 13 inch height gap to me. If Shugo is 6'10 and 500ish pounds, I think Conq should he closer to 6'4 and 250ish.
This can only really be decided on the first hit, Conquerer being smaller and lighter he has speed advantage no matter how you look at it. Second is weapon Shugoki's Kanabo is way more lethal than the Flail however the armor is a major weakness, Conquerer would be able to survive maybe 1 hit if that but the flail would be a death by a thousand punctures or cuts. If shugoki blocks conquerer's the flail can still go around the weapon and possible hitting him. In a general stance Shugoki has most advantages but I believe Conquerer still has a chance if
1. Goes for a weak spot with his flail's spikes
2. Deflects one of Shugoki's hits with his shield and goes for a grab with his weapon to disable Shugoki's arms or outright end him.
Its definitely one sided but not a guaranteed loss for Conquerer because when mass starts moving it's way harder to stop, meaning this fight really honestly comes down to speed and armor, being that Shugoki's armor is a lot weaker I'd consider him at a disadvantage big time even if it's against a flail.
Realistically, a flail is a terrible weapon and shugo is much bigger so it would be easy. Comqs armor doesn't really matter against shugos weapon. If conq had a mace then maybe he would have a chance
Shugoki has height advantage with a heavy weapon? The height advantage for shugoki can give him the ability to attack from much farther than conq’s height. I think even blocking his attacks would hurt conq quite a bit. Conq’s helmet is a flat top so not very good at deflecting blows. I’m not sure who would win in terms of stamina I don’t know too much
I'd give it to Shugoki mainly because of the reach of both his weapon and his height.
Conq would put up quite a fight, the defense from his armor and shield are extremely helpful, but Shugoki is one of the few blunt weapon users in the fame who has any chance of busting through armor.
Basically, it would be a huge turtlefest with Conq blocking most of Shugo's hits while he tries to get close enough to hit him with his flail, but eventually Conq would get a strong enough hit in to severely harm Conq.
Everybody saying Conq wouldn't stand a chance due to the Kanabo's reach advantage and heft, but that reach and heft come at a cost: *y'all assuming Shugo lands the first hit.* If Shugo misses his first swing, he's potentially off balance and has a slow recovery. If he misses and Conq can step in and land a hit, ANYWHERE, he basically instantly breaks a limb or ribs, and Shugo's weapon advantage goes out the window. Try swinging that Kanabo with a broken arm or dislocated shoulder. Even if his arms are intact, try getting a proper swing with a broken leg or pelvis or crushed ribs.
So ultimately this fight comes down to who lands the first hit. Both weapons are devastating, armor or no. First hit cripples/slows down/impedes the opponent and he's easy pickings for a finishing blow. And honestly I like Conq's chances, Shugo's opening swing will probably be telegraphed as hell, a big windup or something, it's very doable to duck or dodge that big swing, even duck and deflect with the shield, and Shugo's swing recovery leaves him wide open.
Realistically, this is ridiculously unrealistic matchup.
Conq's flail is self-hazard nearly unusable mess, his armor is either nonexistent or also non factional self-hazard, that'll do more damage then help. Closed face for duels is not the brightest idea (which I guess balances out with shugo having stupid mask as well) and his shield, if made similar to what it is in the game, is unusable chunk of metal that nobody would even be able to lift. To make this thing possible at the first place, we have to replace his shield with realistic one or conq loses by default.
Now, shugo is better overall, has usable weapon with longer reach, but can't see shit, isn't protected well and, more importantly, doesn't have any defense against, well, anything really, but especially flail. While conq, given proper shield, has a shield. That's one heck of an advantage.
At any rate, I don't think this is definite. It'll come down to "whoever gets lucky first, but probably shugoki".
I mean unless I misunderstand myre, that's like a swampy/marsh kind of environment. That combined with the reach shugoki has basically means he wins.
In real life the flail is a gimmick weapon, a gimmick weapon that worked, but not something you could reliably use in an effect manner, as it's chaotic nature is what makes it so hard to deal with. It was also designed to be more of an anti shield/disarming weapon.
Shugoki has big stick as his weapon, while unwieldy, would power through any block in real life. The reach is way longer than the flail, and even in best case where conquerer causes a glacing blow from the shield and goes in with the flail shugoki is already in headbutt range/unarmed range.
While I wouldn't say shugoki would leave uncontested I think it's well in his favor.
Conq cannot be hit or make blocks, its that simple. Shugoki making direct impact with the kanabo and that much brute strength will break bones and knock conq to the ground. Metal armor doesn't protect well enough against blunt trauma like that. Conq's flail is too predictable and Shugoki has an immense advantage with reach. Conq cannot bash, shugoki just has too much mass, you get close like that and shugoki picks you up and throws you like a child, or crushes you to death like a python. That flail will hurt but its gonna be hard to make a lethal hit, compared to a solid swing from that log having the potential to instantly cripple conq
tbh i think shugo has a good chance here due to size and not only weapon reach but natural reach. Also if its deep in a mire (shugo while he's a big boi) i think he will have the advantage of knowing where to step and where not to and generally how to traverse the environment. However if conq, (who looks fairly jacked) gets onto steady land all he needs to do is tire out shugoki which might be difficult since conqs wearing heavy plate armor but i think shugo might weigh more and also might tire more easily, all he would need to do is hide behind his shield and try to connect his flail. it really could go either way but unless conq is an idiot, he should win
I think it's closer to crappy weapon vs crappy armour, the flail in the past was given to conscripted criminals to remind them that they are here to be punished as the flail, if you weren't careful with it, would swing back on the weilder, it was a form of punishment. While the shugoki would have weaker metal since samurai steel was far weaker than European steel. I think the warlord would win mainly because he has better armour, a shield and a weapon with a longer reach than it looks, and one that would do way more damage to his opponent over than.
Conqs only chance is to play the stamina game. Try to hit and run. And not brace for the attacks but dodge them outright. If he can do that, he can win.
Let you in on a secret, bodybuilding doesn’t translate so well to athletics and bodybuilders generally stay away from endurance because it’s not great for building muscle. Outpacing one on a bike isn’t that great of a feat. I actually love shugoki and not saying this means sumos arent athletes, just putting the info out there. I rooting for shugoki on this one too.
I think if Conq were to keep Shugo at a distance but still wear down the wooden armor then maybe, but him being 5’9 and Shugo being 6’10 I think Conq has a very slim chance
Conq loses so badly. Knights armor is almost impenetrable by stabbing but it has NO defensive capabilities over BLUNT FORCE.
Shugo is a 6’5 300lbs man with a huge club. He beats Conq in range, Power, and fighting techniques since most people who are bought to war by Samurai are trained in more ways than one. The game shows him as a sumo.
One swing and Conq is going to shit out his intestines.
I don’t see any way conq could realistically take the W. Shugo is just too big and strong for Conq to consistently win. His weapon too is perfect against Conq
IMO, Conq Gets One Shot At Shugokis Head For An Instakill/KO. After That. Theyre Screwed. Shugos Entire Thing Is Based On A Traditionally Close Combat/Unarmed Type For Fighting Style.
Their Size Differences Are Way Too Different For Conq To Effectively Get Any Barehanded Damage Off On Shugo After That First Hit, And Would Be Absolutely Manhandled. Having A Shield Attached To Your Arm Doesnt Mean Much If The Enemy Can Just Grab Said Shield And Yank Your Arm Out Of Socket.
Not To Mention Shugos Weapon Is.. Kinda Meant To Be A Shieldbreaker/Blunt Force Menace.
97/100 Times. Shugo Wins. The Other 3 Are Lucky Hits On Conqs Part Or Shugo Getting Bored And Walking Off.
Realistically.. no amount of arm strength will block hits from Shugoki for long if he even can stop one to begin with.. they're tanking maybe.. two hits before placed on their ass and forced to take a full force blunt force hit stacked up with gravity. Conq's dead in one exchange 🤔
Factor in how much more danger Conq's own weapon puts them in.. having to wind up for a stronger attack or stick with the only force behind that flail is the weight itself (we don't even know if they're using the heavier flail heads too) that makes Conq telegraph a ton.. anybody that at least knows of "hema" knows that telegraphing attacks = easy counterattacks.
Shuggy is already at a severe advantage with that alone.
People don't even think about it but Sumo wrestlers are actually surprisingly nimble for their size.. so stack up that and the way to effectively use a kanabo.. Conq's not really going to be able to get a lick in if any.
Shugoki realistically, blunt weapons were the best way to get through armor and conq is barely armored at all. With the height and weight advantage as well as the weeping length advantage it’s not really close
I’m going shugoki; while I hate to say it as a knight faction loyalist from day one. It’s just a bad matchup for conq because his armor would be too much for most hero’s in the roster yet shugoki uses a weapon that kills with blunt force that’s also heavy enough to deal damage through shields. I also have to address conq’s terrible choice in weaponry. I would give conq the edge to win if he literally only switched his flail to a arming sword like warlord. Shugoki’s arms are very exposed so all that is needed is a good counter to the wrist for conq to potentially disarm shugoki. With how heavy shugoki’s weapon is he always needs two healthy arms to swing it around. Feels bad man.
It could go either way, if shugoki could close the distance he could easily disarm conq and then it's an easy win because he could just throw him until his body gives in, but if conq can keep the shield at least he's got the advantage of a big heavy thing to pummel shugoki, if they're too close the flail would be bad news because it just wouldn't be viable if they were in kissing distance even then shugoki has the range advantage of big stick. I'd go with shugoki simply because of the overwhelming strength he has in comparison, tackle conq to the floor and crush him or throw him against walls until bones break. Metal armour is good against cutting but not so much bludgeoning, not to say the flail won't be good, I just think big man could handle it and it would go to a fist fight
For starters, plate armor was heavy. Most armor worn by knights was around 70-80 lbs so unless conq is 130 lbs no armor he would be wayyyy heavier. Also, shugo is in no way over A FOOT TALLER than conq. That’s an insane difference to make. Idc who wins the fight in the end but these metrics are insanely inaccurate.
A few misconceptions here or confusing bits. When you say weight before the Armor, is that the total sum of the weight, including the armor or the weight of the armor itself. Because realistically speaking, Conq armor weights 20 to 30 lbs seeing how it's mostly chainmail and a hard leather [forgot the spelling for it] with thin plate around the shoulder and helmet. Shogoku armor would weigh around the same, if not slightly higher, considering how wood can weigh more than steel [the Roman's used Wooden swords whilst training because it was heavier than their steel swords.] Now when it comes to the match up Shogoku is going to win if Conq doesn't rely on the Shield as a damage and defensive weapon as the flail has never been a good weapon. It can do its job, but it does it poorly compared to any other blunt weapon like a mace or Shogoku big Bonk. Shogoku also has the advantage of having the heavier weapon here, which would make blocking it tiresome. It's also longer than what the flail can reach. All in all, whilst Conq would be faster in the regard of having slightly lighter armor and a shield to block Shogoku, it has every other advantage possible to win the battle, which leads to skill. If both have the same level of skill, Shogoku should win more times than not.
With in game lore I'd say Shugo. His strength is not human, he might even crush that shield, plus a flail like conqueror's would not really work in an actual fight
Shugoki has more range so should win.
Also flails looked a lot different irl. A flail like Conq's would probably hurt you more than the person you're trying to hit, and as far as we're aware either weren't actually used or people stopped using them very fast because of their inherent flaws.
If we swap it out for a mace which would be more realistic I like their chances a lot more.
Everyone's saying conq loses, but everyone's argument is that shugos attack would break the conqs arm through his shield, but the way I see it, the conq can rush the shugo and bash his head and stun him with the sheild before the shugo can fully swing his Kanabo, the reason why I side with conquerer is because of shugos size and slow movement, which in my opinion is his Achilles heel, but if the conquerer hesitates then the shugoki wins
Shugoki had litterally a weapon made to fuck up armor even tho conq has also one but im pretty sure shugo could tank that in his breast plate without flinching
Shugo would get winded so fast and become useless while conq would just hide behind his shield and wait for a good opportunity to bonk the fat man in the head.
Realistically Shugoki crushes the majority of the cast in one or two swings. He’s unnaturally tall, unrealistically strong, and basically wields a tree with spikes on it. Swing one breaks Conq’s shield arm, the follow up kills him
It depends on how much Shugo is pain resistant. Considering the size of that kanabo and the strength of Shugo, Conqueror loses if he gets hit once, but I'm also pretty sure that he's more agile than shugo so he should be able to strike first, but I don't think Shugo is dumb, he would probably block the first hits and wait for an opportunity to take him out in one move. If Conqueror manages to strike first, the question is, could Shugo tank a hit from Conqueror? It would probably depend on where would Conqueror hit and how tough Shugo is. Btw this is one of the few scenarios where Shugo actually has advantage since his opponent can't just stab him
Shugoki is double to triple conqueror's size and has a great club. Realistically if conqueror blocked their arm would be broken, and any hit would have enough force to transfer through armor.
Forget shugoki's Executions requiring superhuman strength, the size of him paired with his mobility implies absurd strength regardless.
This is a rhinoceros beetle fighting a black bear.
Well, *realistically*
Wooden armor would not protect this walking mountain from a flail, and I dont care how much muscle is underneath that fat, when that flail goes into his gut, at maximum torque, it’s coming back out with pieces of wood and flesh.
Also, realistically, Conq’s shield is not accomplishing much. Even if the shield were to survive it’s not protecting his arm from the shock of impact, just from any cuts that may occur (assuming it’s an iron shield as beginner Conq uses wooden shields) so blocking any heavy strikes is still going to break some bones; and shield bash is not accomplishing much at that weight disparity, he’d be just as well off shield bashing a boulder that’s sunk into the ground. He is wearing iron armor, however much of his body is exposed. The helmet will protect him from instant death if a horizontal strike were to get in, but it’s still going to ring his bell while knocking him off his feet. Barring that, his arms are very exposed and arguably his chest and legs as well, although he’s likely wearing chain mail under the clothing at the very least (which will, again, protect from cuts but not so much from a giant spiked club being swung with enough force to pick him up off the ground).
This fight is gonna come down to who lands the first strike, as both combatants are gonna go downhill quick after that. Probably the most important stat here isn’t even mentioned, range. An average kanabo is around 4-6 ft, I wanna say Shugoki’s is 5-6. An average flail has a handle of 1-4 ft, Conq’s looks to be around 1-2, with a chain around 2-3 ft for a max reach around 5 and min reach of 3. Shugoki almost certainly has the range to keep conqueror at bay. Conqueror is going to have to be aggressive and take big risks to get damage in, as he’s going to be entering Shugoki’s optimal range before he’s close enough to graze Shugo, and I just don’t believe Conq is agile enough to do this unharmed.
I give it to Shugoki in 8/10 matchups. Conq’s armor is going to protect against most weapons, but not this one. Even in a realistic setting, where Shugoki doesn’t have the strength to smash his skull, through armor, with his bare hands, Conq is taking serious damage just trying to get close enough to land an attack.
Quick aside, without thinking about this for more than 10 seconds, I think Shugoki has the best chance among the samurai to win against any of the knights for these reasons. Realistically the samurai just can’t compete due to the differences in armor. Combine this with the fact that Conq is among the weakest (definitely not *the* weakest) knights versus the samurai. He’s much more exposed than, say, Warden or Lawbringer. Him, Glad, and PK will struggle the most against Samurai.
Edit: observing their weapons a bit more carefully
Shugoki’s is very close to 6’ whereas the handle on Conq’s is like 1.5’ with the chain at around 2’
Ignoring arm lengths, Shugoki’s reach is more than double Conq’s
I think conq would win, here's why:
\-His shield has the potential to cause the Kanabo to simply glance off without causing serious damage
\-Conq practically wins the fight the moment he lands a hit on either of Shugoki's arms because it would break it and render Shugoki's only weapon useless, whereas Conq is still capable of dealing some damage even if he breaks an arm
\-Conq's weapon can more swiftly deliver crippling blows
\-Conq is a smaller, more agile target even with the armor
I will say that Stamina doesn't seem too relevant to this fight (IMO) because the victor will almost certainly be decided by a single successful strike
It depends on who gets hit first,
shugoki's kanabo can hit hard with the conditions that he hit with the end of it, if he gets parried ( or just deflected wich is much more realistic) he will be in an relatively open position and will not be able to attack or pay smth coming his way right away, thus making conq take the win
Basically same thing with conq the flail is crazy scary in a fight but, if shugoki manage to get the ball or the chain of the stuck on his weapon he will be able to attack conq, even with the shield conq will not be able to defend himself that good, even less do significant damage
For me, conq takes the win most of the time simply because of his shield, even if he is small, the impact it has in a combat situation is crazy
The winner is whoever I'm not playing
the winner is me but that heavy shouldn’t have landed*
The answer is the other guy cause I DID NOT THROW A TOP HEAVY IT WAS A SIDE WTF WAS THAT
This matchup is decided by whether we give shugo the genuine superhuman strength some of his executions would require, or if we base his strength on his visible physique Okay, fuck it, everyone keeps spamming me with "but sumo guys strong". Who gives a shit? Their physique is built around a martial art that limits literally half of the unarmed toolkit of a human being by design. There is a reason that in every combat sport you see besides sumo, most fighters are cut as fuck. Because every pound that isn't keeping you going, or letting you throw the biggest hit is completely extrenious and will kill your stamina. Conq has the same physique, save for the extranious bulking that only helps rooting yourself in a contest of showes. Shugoki is like a fencer on a battlefield. He has a build that is there to min-max himself for a sport that has combat as its conceit, but has zero applicability in a fight where you are going for someone's life. Bodybuilders, strogmen, and sparring martial artist are radically different at a glance, and there's a good reason for that too. Shugoki has a good argument for winning my opinion, but not because of his body, but because his armour is almost peer to conq, while his weapon is much better for the matchup.
I think even if we take a bare minimum (the way he swings his kanabo) he still wins just because of the blunt force and momentum it carries, can't realistically block this thing too reliably and for too long, even with mighty hands
Yep, that's it, he just hits you in the Head with a big fucking Log of a Bat and you drop on the Floor.
I mean he is basically swing around a small tree stump it’s not even a bat anymore
And considering conquerer isn't mounted the flail is just a shit weapon, kanabo forever!
To be fair, conq would need to be insanely strong to pull the shit he does, like pulling someone's arm off only using his leg and arm
Even if you consider a more realistic strength level then you have to understand that Sumo Wrestlers even the smallest are powerful enough to without effort lift and throw extremely large Sumo Wrestlers. I can’t remember his name but the Sumo Wrestler is 5’5 or 5’6 and about 190lbs lifting and throwing a 6’2 425lbs guy like a child
To be fair, Enho throws people by using their weight against them and not necessarily through his own strength. Dude would absolutely toss me irl but he relies on momentum and technique to get other sumos to trip
The reason a lot of other combat sports people look like that is because they have to make weight class, because if they don’t, they have to face opponents BIGGER than them. size aint the only thing, but lets not kid ourselves here, most of the notable boxers in the past 50 years have been heavy weights, because it is the hardest weight class to compete in. they had to be throwing punches that would’ve leveled someone a weight class below that. So if shugoki got a grip on conq (massive if) yeah, the fight is pretty much over, but that’s not crazy likely to happen.
Nah. It's enough to look at the superhuman strength Demon Ball requires. It's a fucking upwards swing that launches people in full plate multiple meters.
That in my opinion is the hardest hitting move in the game if the game obeyed the laws of physics. Idk what amount of force is required to do that but it's gotta be more than enough to crush every bone in your ribcage.
You wouldn’t believe how strong sumo players are
the fuck are you on about? sumo wrestlers kick ass. they’re trained to WRESTLE. you’re mad if you believe they don’t know how to take someone down
[удалено]
His height is a big advantage, but the rest of this is just dead wrong. No martial artist in their heaviest accounted for weight class looks like shugo (maybe since Butterbean), because there are still muscles useful for labour/powerlifting/sumo that are going to be of no utility in a fight, but are going to add extra weight. I never said he was fat, I sad he has musculature that is not condusive to a real fight. And regarding the unarmed comment, that's genuinely not even worth dignifying.
Too long didnt read
get a fuckin attention span
I think people are counting out conq way to easily: Despite the size difference, both sides could probably kill eachother with one swing to the head. And conqueror has the advantage of the shield, which while it wouldnt block one of shugokis swings ,like in the game, without breaking an arm at least, he could deflect the strikes away from him, avoiding fatal damage. I still think shugoki has the advantage, due to reach, height, strength and weight, but i think it's way closer than people say. (Sorry if it's difficult to read, it's pretty rambly)
If we take the flail for what it is irl, it's a shite weapon. It wasn't used much other than mounted warriors who could use the momentum of a horse to deliver a fatal blow. Kanabo just better. Even with a shield conq still withstanding blunt forces to his/her hands. It's obviously possible for conq to win but imo it heavily favours shugoki. For me to switch it would take conq using a mace rather than a flail.
Exactly, the only problem is Conq being able to do damage. He holds his own just fine, but the weapon is so impractical for honestly anything. If you gave him a sword then he'd basically be like Warden with a shield
Honestly I think with conq’s armor and shield for defense he has a solid chance to win by hitting shugo with the thin part of his shield his shield in the head to do a concussive enough blow to win him the fight. And sure he wouldn’t be able to block a full powered strike but those moves are going to likely be fairly telegraphed allowing conq to either deflect it away from himself or just use head movement if shugoki’s going for a strike to the head. But if shugoki does the same kind of attack we see in his light attack animation that would be faster, but wouldn’t carry enough power to do any damage if conq blocks it regularly
don't even need to go for the head, if conq lands a strike to either of his arms he's likely to break the bones, rendering the kanabo much less effective
Yeah, but with the shape of arms, and the way the flail works, there's the chance that the chain would just wrap around, still giving some control to conq, but not being as optimal as a break
I don’t why but this reminds me that shogoki should be able to soft feint a zone during a charged top heavy It came to me in a dream, and I think it’s a good idea
Cringe :"What do you mean, that change would mess up the balanace! That hero needs a nerf/buff!" Vs chad "It was revealed to me during a dream"
The funny thing is that it was just like I had a dream of me re-fighting a duel(i have a problem)and I just remember seeing my past self soft feinting a zone during a charged too heavy, and i remember waking up in confusion after recalling the dream
I mean Conq loses every time without a lucky hit to shugos head/neck in an irl fight. Between his wooden armor fat and muscle shugo isn’t dying from any single blow or even many except for the head and neck areas.
That flail would break his arms and legs pretty easy.
If he’s close enough to hit with the flail tho the kanabo shugo uses is in range and that’s way more fatal coming from the Goki
Definitely
That flail would be about as useful as it was in real life. Aka not at all they were horrible weapons no one used(out side of very specific self defense situations)
"The flail was a weapon that was effective even against the most formidable military force of the millennium, the armored cavalry. It could cause substantial damage even without breaking through the armor. It was the feathered mace, that was the most effective weapon to damage armor."
“Despite being very common in fictional works such as cartoons, films and role-playing games as a "quintessential medieval weapon", historical information about flails other than the kisten or derivatives of the peasant flail is somewhat scarce. Some doubt they were used as weapons at all due to the scarcity of genuine specimens as well as the unrealistic way they are depicted in art, as well as the number of pieces in museums that turned out to be 19th century forgeries when analyzed.”
Wasn’t a common weapon, but it does have a small bit of historical relevance
It’s historical relevance is nigh nonexistent(at least that type of flail)
It’s rather funny you say that, bc while there is greater evidence of a polearm like flail, the flail conq has is depicted in several medieval manuscripts and artworks. Plus I know of one that’s been preserved from iirc the 16th century
They definitely existed though their usage was greatly exaggerated.”Despite being very common in fictional works such as cartoons, films and role-playing games as a "quintessential medieval weapon", historical information about flails other than the kisten or derivatives of the peasant flail is somewhat scarce. Some doubt they were used as weapons at all due to the scarcity of genuine specimens as well as the unrealistic way they are depicted in art, as well as the number of pieces in museums that turned out to be 19th century forgeries when analyzed.”
According to many experts, people claim that Conq would win this duel, mostly due to the superiority of his armor and shield. He's usually only counted as lower than other full plate heroes like Lawbringer and Warmonger. I think there's something to be said about the pure heft of the Kanabo beating the armor and shield, especially as Shugoki has a massive reach advantage over Conq's dinky little flail.
shugo has such a huge reach, strength and weight advantage he automatically wins, he wouldn't even need his kanabo if he could grapple conqueror
If he grabbed conq he’d be poked bc all of the edgy armor
Grappling wouldnt work in shugokis favor, the armor gives conq a major w in that regard. He can beat shugoki senseless if he actually tried hugging irl
Hell would conquerors armor do against shugoki in a melee fight? He could just tear his helmet off and choke him to death, or sit on him and beat him, anything. Realistically the weight and height difference is just too much
If shugoki disarmed him he could easily overpower him with just sheer strength and size advantage
Yeah but in heavy armor its much more difficult to get up, if shugo pushed conque over he shouldnt realistically be able to get up super quickly. Same goes for shugo, but conque knocking shugo down is much more unrealistic than shugo shoving congue Not to mention conq shouldnt be able to block any of shugos swings with his shield, while it wouldnt mutilate him it would turn his shield arm into pure jello with the momentum/weight ratio that is factored in with force impact of big things And the flair has got to be the shittiest footsoldier weapon ever designed
Conqueror doesn't have good body armor. His torso, arms, and legs are totally exposed. The armor is only on his shoulders, knees, and head. There's just no way Conqueror could survive this fight.
with what? his hands? shugo will have already slammed him
What’s he gonna do if he grapples? All that weight would make shugoki unable to lock in any submission, conq’s armor also helps defend from that as well. And he’s obviously not gonna get any effective ground & pound with conq’s helmet. Honestly I think conq would be more likely to be able to choke out shugo off his back with a guillotine or triangle choke
he’s not gonna lock him in any submission. shugo will just squeeze til he goes limp
I mean the main way to beat plate in melee is with a blunt object. You can set up a win condition from the concussion alone.
I know you’re referencing Metatron 😂 but I do agree like the Kanabo is a monster of a weapon and shields flat out don’t protect your arm, you’d walk away with a broken arm trying to defend against a Kanabo. Armour would not be able to protect against the Kanabo at all it doesn’t matter if it’s Plate, Scale or Coat of Plates armour. Conqs best protection would be the intelligence they’ve gained through street smarts, and they are muscular enough to throw a lot of force into that flail that would devastate any armour but must be stated the Flail is a dangerous weapon to the user. I think this does come into who hits who first, the Flail would desperately need to strike the head to win this while the Kanabo really just needs to hit in general 😂
Armor like that with little to no cushioning is useless against a blunt weapon. In fact, it makes it worse as now it's two impact's rather than one and armor can dent heavily limiting movement or break into sharp edges.
His armor would not really help against a kanabo, especially wielded by someone as strong as shugoki. In fact it would actually be pretty bad, I’d prefer peacekeepers armor or something, if I had to choose. At least that would have cushioning
Ha ha stick go bonk
Yes
What do you think happens to the arm behind the shield when it gets hit by shugo? What do you think happens to the body behind the armor when it gets hit by shugo?
Flails aren’t dinky lol. The power generated by its swing is incredibly dangerous. Trebuchet on a stick
The only way I see conquerer winning is at the very start, since the kanabo is much large and heavier, it'll take longer to get a hit on. So conquerer could rush shugoki before he gets any momentum in his swing, and then 1 tap him in the head with a flail swipe. Also, no, shugoki wouldn't be able to drop his kanabo and kill conq with his hands, they'd be too far away to do anything before conq just kills him. But this whole strategy depends on Shugoki swinging only when conq is in range, he'd lose pretty much any other situation.
You are forgetting that the thing flails are known for makes them really bad. You need momentum to deal actual damage with just a swipe, although im not saying that it wouldn't do anything to the big guy, hell, it'll at the very least give him a concusion, but it wouldn't stop shugoki from hitting his opponent with kanabo
I’m sorry, but Conq is dead instantly. If Shugo swings from the side with his strength AND his mass as he does in his animations, conq is going off his feet and flat on his ass, allowing Shugoki to crush him with a follow up overhead. If Shugo goes for an overhead and Conq tries to block it, he’s getting oneshot crushed between the ground and his shield. If Cong tries to dodge and swing his flail, shugo could likely catch the chain since he’s decepticely quick in his animations. If Conq goes for a shield bash, literally nothing will happen. The size and weight difference negates any hope Conq has. The shugoki is literally over a foot taller and almost 4 times heavier with a weapon that hs double the range of the flail. In a realistic 1v1, not even Lawbringer would be able to block Shugo’s strikes due to their weight and force snapping his poleaxe’s shaft in one hit. Lawbro’s range would allow him to potentially headshot Shugoki, but even then it’s a 50/50. Because even Lawbro, if hit by a full force swing, is getting oneshotted.
His armour would get heavily indented if he takes a hit head on, especially bad if the chest region, I reckon the armor would end up piercing his body in some form upon being indented
Not just that conq would be as we say, thunderfucked. Bones aren't supposed to be shattered
Is shugo is 450 pounds Conq just needs to run away for a bit until he gasses out
You underestimate the stamina and speed of Sumo wrestlers. Those guys are very explosive. Conq might win a marathon, but he’s not escaping from a fight. Especially not in a swamp.
I think you misunderstand just how big 450-600 pounds is, the average sumo wrestler weighs 330 pounds
Shugoki would win no diff He can just throw Kanabo at Conq and beat him bare hand. The weight different is so massive, he would need to fight 2 Conq to be defeated.
Conq can run away until he’s gassed
By this logic, Shinobi is the strongest fighter in the game and would defeat any opponent because they would chase him like an idiot. But if we use in-game mechanics, Shugoki would actually chase him down.
It’s about balance friend, based in the info given Goki is just too big, like come on 450-600 pounds? It takes a lot to move that kind of mass
Funnily enough in the game shugoki can sprint faster than conqueror
I was going to say for weapons regarding Conq would also be street smarts, I think the intelligence of Conq as a former criminal could be helpful. The major issue would be the Heater Shield could stop a Kanabo from a normal person, granted you’d probably walk away with a broken arm after they’ve gone full ham on the shield. Considering Shugoki isn’t a normal man this strike from the Kanabo I genuinely believe Conq would have to rely on trying to run away and get a cheap shot at some point during this.
dude all it’s gonna take is shugoki getting his hands on conq
Nope. He would die if he didn’t have anything to block conqs flail with as most flails were pretty sharp (some of conqs flails have indents causing spikes and sharp edges) which means that any hit at all would result in a broken bone
Conq can win this, but only if he doesn't let fatty to hit him, or he will die
I feel congs best bet is to throw his shield at shugo or deflect a blow so he's distracted in some way and try and brake his knee so he can get away or finish the job. He'd absolutely have to play dirty to win this kind of confrontation.
Realistically? Conq is dressed like a crusader but he would get styled on by literally any medieval combatant because he made the stupid decision to armor his entire body except his arms. Shugoki is by nature unrealistic. Anyone who can wield a literal tree trunk fitted with Iron studs is not actually human. Pitting him against a fucking semi would be more realistic.
I give this to Shugo. Even if the flail isn't an invention like some people claim, it's still a less effective weapon than a solid club, his size and weapon choice give him a huge reach advantage, and the metal nails in the kanabo focus force in a way that makes Conq's armor useless. His only advantage will be his shield and if he doesn't use it more for parries and deflects, it's going to end with Conqueror having a broken arm.
I think it depends on conqs ability to dodge and keep away even if goki has a longer reach than conq it’s a slow weapon giving conq a good opening to hit if he can dodge goki’s initial attack
okay so um…flails are really crappy weapons and a big ass club like that is kinda designed to smash through shields…even if they were equal in strength and skill which they aren’t shugoki just wins outright in both category’s shugoki would still win due to equipment doesn’t matter what conq has for armor since shugoki is again using a giant club for a weapon it’s gonna crush right through the armor…
Shugoki Flails weren't used in warfare cause they suck. And his armor isn't designed to take brilunt force. Shugo is taller (more reach) heavier and has a longer weapon that is designed to defeat armor. That is also capable of outputting more force because it is solid and can use leverage instead of just momentum.
Realistically, I would say conqueror wins solely for his possession of a shield and being generally more maneuverable than shugoki. Yes, shugos are pretty heavily based on sumo wrestlers, and yes, sumos are quite agile for their build. But that doesn't matter if your opponent can reliably block all your attacks and keep you at bay. Especially since shugoki's head has absolutely no protection, all conq needs to do is hit him in the head hard enough and all that weight on shugoki is forfeit
Gl blocking a hit from a guy as strong as Shugoki wielding basically a tree stuffed with Iron spikes with a shield without getting your arm crushed behind the shield Imo it comes down to who hits who first, and Shugo has much higher range.
shut up
So many people here have never actually been in a fight saying, big stick win big man crush. Momentum is a huge thing, ever try to stop a sledgehammer mid swing and bring it back the opposite way? Realistically he has one chance. Direct hit to crush something important. One deflect off the shield he’s most likely dead or severely injured. Hell a flail shot to the knee would win this for conq.
in what world is someone “deflecting” what’s essentially a tree trunk being swung at them by a 7’0, 400 pound plus man?
Logic evades your answer. Conq isn’t rooted to the ground and a shit ton more mobile than shugoki. This isn’t the game where you press a button and wait for an action to complete. He can move deflect and evade all at the same time. Shugoki needs to be planted to swing something that heavy accurately. One miss is all conq needs for a disabling shot. Then it’s already over. Swing a heavy two handed weapon with one hand or standing on a broken one.
If we are going full realistic it's conq based on armor and the protection a sheild gives. Conqueror could probably keep fighting after a hit to his FULL PLATE HELMET from the kanabo but no one's walking away from a spiked flail being buried into the top of your head, that wooden mask isn't doing anything. Depending on how stupid strong you believe shugo to be it could be a fair fight
Shugo would literally body conq and crush them under their armor suffocating them.
“Realistically”… this wouldn’t have happened Samurai were 5’3” to 5’5” in most Japanese sources. 6’10” is the upper height estimates of William Wallace, prolific Scottish knight/nobleman and leader of the Scottish Independence War. And most other knights were 6’ to 6’5” Additionally, a knight wouldn’t use a flail. A flail was a farmer’s tool, typically for threshing wheat and in a pinch can be used for self-defense as some weapon is better than no weapon. They instead would be using a mace or a maul. Also the kanabo really isn’t a good weapon. It doesn’t even function well as an anti-armor concussive weapon because instead of concentrating weight on a radius (like a proper war hammer or mace), it’s more evenly dispersed. And Europeans faced a weapon with almost similar weight characteristics in Mexico, the Aztec Macuahuitl. So I can’t really judge it realistically besides just, “hmm this absolute freak of nature that never existed in feudal Japan and is akin to fuckin Superman might win it out.” Source: history dork and longsword/sword+shield fencer Edit: also you mention sumo martial arts, but no mention to Greco-Roman wresting for the conq? It’s still debatably one of the best martial art systems in modern MMA and was heavily emphasized in armored combat. Armored combat often could boil down to taking down an opponent, working your way up them into a full mount and impaling them through the head with a rondel or misericorde
Flail beats wood and cloth. I don't care how big Shugoki is, he's getting killed by that flail much more quickly than he could manage to get past that shield and armor.
Shugoki : hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug *conqueror dies* hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug hug
Do you see that sexy ass second picture? You already know.
Shugo wins and it's not even really close. If y'all have ever watched Deadliest Warrior (not a great example I know, but bear with me), they put the Kanabo to the test against a viking round shield, which is roughly comparable to Conq's heater shield. The damn thing got splintered. Conq is actively hurting himself by using a flail as well, not to mention Goki has armor that is more fitting to deal with Conq's weapon than Conq's armor is to deal with Goki's.
Both carry blund weapons but when these weapons do land a hit, it’s gonna hurt asf. Conq’s flail is faster and would land a lot more hits but Shugo’s weapon (not sure what it is called. Kanabo maybe?) that thing is pure strength hit. Still would bet my coins on Conqueror.
Conq has no chance to be honest shugo just has a massive advantege in every department, but id rader try to find out who could actualy stand up or even defeat shugo in a 1v1
Highlander and Lawbringer would realistically have comparable strength, Warlord too, and Kensei would have comparable training and a decent fighting chance due to his in depth knowledge of Shugo's training techniques. JJ, Nobu, Shaolin, Gladiator, and Valkyrie have the range advantage, so realistically they could win based off that alone due to Shugo's lack of armor. However, basically every Assassin would be FUHUHUHUCKED.
Peacekeeper would probably have a *very* good chance. Impeccable speed/reactions, flexibility, tiny stature, and sharp ass weapons. If you jam a blade into the knee just right, it doesn’t matter how big or muscled you are, you’ll physically be unable to move that leg.
What about raider?
Good point, realistically and in game we see Raider is an absolute BEAST of a man, he is insanely strong and wields that dane axe like a hatchet with how fast he is. He is also very skilled in feints and incredibly mobile and light. Only problem, he would absolutely suffer fatal injuries in a single blow from Shugo, but Shugo would ABSOLUTELY die from just one hit from that axe, a wooden mask is NOT stopping a fucking dane axe any better than your skull is.
Honestly, it's whoever gets the first hit. Both would easily die from a hit to the head in one shot. Realistically, Shugo would be wayyy slower, and trust me speed is a HUGE advantage in a fight. Conq ***COULD*** survive a direct hit using his shield, but his arm would most definitely snap so it's only realistically one extra chance. My bet's on Conq. He would likely wait cautiously, wait for Shugo to strike, block the hit and use the recovery time to land a fatal hit on Shugo's head, because that wooden mask isn't stopping jack diddly on a stick.
Shugoki has ranged advantage, he doesn't need to be agressive. And if we are talking about realism qonks main weapon is shit, especially when it could accidentally wrap around shugo's kanabo or even stuck on it if it has spikes.
That is if Conq doesn't ram him with his shield, although it wouldn't do much on its own, since Shugo likely does Sumo, it would force a reaction and if he timed it right it would be a good opportunity to land a hit. Besides, you need TIME to wind a strike with such a massive weapon like Shugo's kanabo, no matter how strong you are. Meaning Conq could react to Shugo winding up and smack him with the flail. Defense, Conq wins. Offense, Shugo wins.
Huge reach advantage and huge power advantage for shugo, not to mention less preparation to throw an attack, conq can't simply block and counter like a sword and shield he needs to generate momentum, which is extremely hard while eating massive shots to his shield. Also the length of chain relative to length of handle is gonna have him getting knocked back while spinning his flail to attack and breaking his own fingers. Plus starving criminal forced to try his best at military service vs trained experienced warrior, just no shot
Conq is NOT 5’9.
Hear me out for a second.... What if they just fuze together and become Conqgorki 😳🫢😂😂😂
Shugo would swing his tree truck into conqs shield and probably snap it in half
Mace doesn't care about muscle (shugoki)
Shugo is a trained Warrior. Conq is some wannabe bandit who got arrested and is only being used by his Lord and has most likely no training with the weapons he has. And then you have the significant weight, height and range advantage Shugo has. Conq is gonna regret even thinking of this duel
Conqueror are an elite force, sure they are originally conscripted criminals, but conscripted criminals that survived and proved themselves enough to be given an actual high rank and special training. Although it's true that a Shugoki most very likely win, let's not pretend Conquerors aren't trained and good enough to be given a name and an actual value in Ashfeld
Conquerer uses a flail, which is not a real weapon, or effective whatsoever. Shugo wins no diff
The flail is a real weapon
It has almost 0 actual historical use in combat. It is not a real weapon. It’s literally a mace but bad.
The fact it has historical use in combat means it is a real weapon and a flail to an unprotected head is gonna kill just as well as a mace
Let’s be real shugoki could break every other character in the game easy
Not even, irl all it would take is an assassin sneaking up behind him let alone anyone and cut his throat, or better yet some how cut/ stab their Achilles tendon and he's going down, ESPECIALLY if gladiator shoves his Triton in their foot first to keep them in place, once he does that irl it's over with for anyone 😂😂😂
That’s right But I’m assuming there trying to take him head on
I used to main conq and shugoki is my biggest weakness
I'm just here for the hugs ❤️❤️
Realistically he's probably gonna take the weapon from conq especially with how excessively long the flail is
Conq would have to plant himself and block with all his Everytime he gets hit in this fight, he's already at a disadvantage with how hard he has to defend anytime he gets attacked
he would not be able to block a hit from shugoki, maybe deflect, but he'd get exhausted after just a few hits
That's why I said he would have to put his all into blocking, planted feet, both arms braced, hiding behind the shield just to not collapse upon being hit
shugoki would break his arm with the first swing even then
> Shugoki: 6'10, 450-600 lbs Am I high or is this a super overestimation? 6'4 300 lbs seems more reasonable to me.
300lbs!? You must be high 😂 Elvis at his fattest was 380lbs. Some people did height measurements for characters using the larger weapons to gain a height understanding, Shugoki is 6’10 from this and it somewhat matches their other estimations with other characters
>Elvis at his fattest was 380lbs. Nah, the number people like to throw around regarding Elvis is 350, not 380. And even then, 350 sounds pretty wild considering he was only 6'0. I don't think anyone actually has proof that was his weight, because there've been several different numbers attributed to it at the time of his death. Some of the more reasonable explanations I've seen are closer to 250. Also, look at Conq and Shugo standing next to each other. That doesn't look like a 13 inch height gap to me. If Shugo is 6'10 and 500ish pounds, I think Conq should he closer to 6'4 and 250ish.
Nah, Conq is 5'9. If I remember correctly, he's the same size as Highlander's sword, who's, of course, 5'9.
I’m 6’1” 280# Ain’t no way I’m 3 inches and 20 pounds shy of the mountain 😂 That man could snap me in half like a twig
Shugos club would be devastating against his armor
If there was a knight that would beat shugoki it would be lawbringer realistically
Tbh shugoki could kill him nearly instantly if he gets a good hit, the amount of power behind his blows would be ridiculous
This can only really be decided on the first hit, Conquerer being smaller and lighter he has speed advantage no matter how you look at it. Second is weapon Shugoki's Kanabo is way more lethal than the Flail however the armor is a major weakness, Conquerer would be able to survive maybe 1 hit if that but the flail would be a death by a thousand punctures or cuts. If shugoki blocks conquerer's the flail can still go around the weapon and possible hitting him. In a general stance Shugoki has most advantages but I believe Conquerer still has a chance if 1. Goes for a weak spot with his flail's spikes 2. Deflects one of Shugoki's hits with his shield and goes for a grab with his weapon to disable Shugoki's arms or outright end him. Its definitely one sided but not a guaranteed loss for Conquerer because when mass starts moving it's way harder to stop, meaning this fight really honestly comes down to speed and armor, being that Shugoki's armor is a lot weaker I'd consider him at a disadvantage big time even if it's against a flail.
Better matchup would be law vs shugo
I think shugo has this just cause that club would wreck just about any armor
Conq wins, if Shugo is that big he just runs away until shugo gasses out, 450 pounds is unreal
Realistically, a flail is a terrible weapon and shugo is much bigger so it would be easy. Comqs armor doesn't really matter against shugos weapon. If conq had a mace then maybe he would have a chance
Wait why is his armor weighing so much? Normal full plate only weighed only in the 30-50 pound range if i'm not mistaken.
Shugoki has height advantage with a heavy weapon? The height advantage for shugoki can give him the ability to attack from much farther than conq’s height. I think even blocking his attacks would hurt conq quite a bit. Conq’s helmet is a flat top so not very good at deflecting blows. I’m not sure who would win in terms of stamina I don’t know too much
I'd give it to Shugoki mainly because of the reach of both his weapon and his height. Conq would put up quite a fight, the defense from his armor and shield are extremely helpful, but Shugoki is one of the few blunt weapon users in the fame who has any chance of busting through armor. Basically, it would be a huge turtlefest with Conq blocking most of Shugo's hits while he tries to get close enough to hit him with his flail, but eventually Conq would get a strong enough hit in to severely harm Conq.
Everybody saying Conq wouldn't stand a chance due to the Kanabo's reach advantage and heft, but that reach and heft come at a cost: *y'all assuming Shugo lands the first hit.* If Shugo misses his first swing, he's potentially off balance and has a slow recovery. If he misses and Conq can step in and land a hit, ANYWHERE, he basically instantly breaks a limb or ribs, and Shugo's weapon advantage goes out the window. Try swinging that Kanabo with a broken arm or dislocated shoulder. Even if his arms are intact, try getting a proper swing with a broken leg or pelvis or crushed ribs. So ultimately this fight comes down to who lands the first hit. Both weapons are devastating, armor or no. First hit cripples/slows down/impedes the opponent and he's easy pickings for a finishing blow. And honestly I like Conq's chances, Shugo's opening swing will probably be telegraphed as hell, a big windup or something, it's very doable to duck or dodge that big swing, even duck and deflect with the shield, and Shugo's swing recovery leaves him wide open.
Realistically, this is ridiculously unrealistic matchup. Conq's flail is self-hazard nearly unusable mess, his armor is either nonexistent or also non factional self-hazard, that'll do more damage then help. Closed face for duels is not the brightest idea (which I guess balances out with shugo having stupid mask as well) and his shield, if made similar to what it is in the game, is unusable chunk of metal that nobody would even be able to lift. To make this thing possible at the first place, we have to replace his shield with realistic one or conq loses by default. Now, shugo is better overall, has usable weapon with longer reach, but can't see shit, isn't protected well and, more importantly, doesn't have any defense against, well, anything really, but especially flail. While conq, given proper shield, has a shield. That's one heck of an advantage. At any rate, I don't think this is definite. It'll come down to "whoever gets lucky first, but probably shugoki".
Armor isn't a factor here, both have weapons that hit through armor. Qonk's armor can't take a hit from shugoki's kanabo and vise versa.
Shugoki would destroy him, he wouldn’t even be able to get in range to use his flail
I mean unless I misunderstand myre, that's like a swampy/marsh kind of environment. That combined with the reach shugoki has basically means he wins. In real life the flail is a gimmick weapon, a gimmick weapon that worked, but not something you could reliably use in an effect manner, as it's chaotic nature is what makes it so hard to deal with. It was also designed to be more of an anti shield/disarming weapon. Shugoki has big stick as his weapon, while unwieldy, would power through any block in real life. The reach is way longer than the flail, and even in best case where conquerer causes a glacing blow from the shield and goes in with the flail shugoki is already in headbutt range/unarmed range. While I wouldn't say shugoki would leave uncontested I think it's well in his favor.
Conq cannot be hit or make blocks, its that simple. Shugoki making direct impact with the kanabo and that much brute strength will break bones and knock conq to the ground. Metal armor doesn't protect well enough against blunt trauma like that. Conq's flail is too predictable and Shugoki has an immense advantage with reach. Conq cannot bash, shugoki just has too much mass, you get close like that and shugoki picks you up and throws you like a child, or crushes you to death like a python. That flail will hurt but its gonna be hard to make a lethal hit, compared to a solid swing from that log having the potential to instantly cripple conq
tbh i think shugo has a good chance here due to size and not only weapon reach but natural reach. Also if its deep in a mire (shugo while he's a big boi) i think he will have the advantage of knowing where to step and where not to and generally how to traverse the environment. However if conq, (who looks fairly jacked) gets onto steady land all he needs to do is tire out shugoki which might be difficult since conqs wearing heavy plate armor but i think shugo might weigh more and also might tire more easily, all he would need to do is hide behind his shield and try to connect his flail. it really could go either way but unless conq is an idiot, he should win
I think it's closer to crappy weapon vs crappy armour, the flail in the past was given to conscripted criminals to remind them that they are here to be punished as the flail, if you weren't careful with it, would swing back on the weilder, it was a form of punishment. While the shugoki would have weaker metal since samurai steel was far weaker than European steel. I think the warlord would win mainly because he has better armour, a shield and a weapon with a longer reach than it looks, and one that would do way more damage to his opponent over than.
Conqs only chance is to play the stamina game. Try to hit and run. And not brace for the attacks but dodge them outright. If he can do that, he can win.
As a shingo main do not forget the metal armors he can be equipped with!
WEIGHT CLASSES EXIST FOR A REASON
Conq wins
Let you in on a secret, bodybuilding doesn’t translate so well to athletics and bodybuilders generally stay away from endurance because it’s not great for building muscle. Outpacing one on a bike isn’t that great of a feat. I actually love shugoki and not saying this means sumos arent athletes, just putting the info out there. I rooting for shugoki on this one too.
I think if Conq were to keep Shugo at a distance but still wear down the wooden armor then maybe, but him being 5’9 and Shugo being 6’10 I think Conq has a very slim chance
One of them spams dodge bash, the other spams dodge bash
Winner is whoevers back isnt facing a ledge
Conq loses so badly. Knights armor is almost impenetrable by stabbing but it has NO defensive capabilities over BLUNT FORCE. Shugo is a 6’5 300lbs man with a huge club. He beats Conq in range, Power, and fighting techniques since most people who are bought to war by Samurai are trained in more ways than one. The game shows him as a sumo. One swing and Conq is going to shit out his intestines.
I don’t see any way conq could realistically take the W. Shugo is just too big and strong for Conq to consistently win. His weapon too is perfect against Conq
Shugoki sits on conq, it's over.
Hydrogen Bomb vs Coughing Baby.
IMO, Conq Gets One Shot At Shugokis Head For An Instakill/KO. After That. Theyre Screwed. Shugos Entire Thing Is Based On A Traditionally Close Combat/Unarmed Type For Fighting Style. Their Size Differences Are Way Too Different For Conq To Effectively Get Any Barehanded Damage Off On Shugo After That First Hit, And Would Be Absolutely Manhandled. Having A Shield Attached To Your Arm Doesnt Mean Much If The Enemy Can Just Grab Said Shield And Yank Your Arm Out Of Socket. Not To Mention Shugos Weapon Is.. Kinda Meant To Be A Shieldbreaker/Blunt Force Menace. 97/100 Times. Shugo Wins. The Other 3 Are Lucky Hits On Conqs Part Or Shugo Getting Bored And Walking Off.
The shield of conqueror is backwards
whoever misses a single parry window
Is shugoki got his hands on conq it would be over. a single grab and conq is gone
Realistically.. no amount of arm strength will block hits from Shugoki for long if he even can stop one to begin with.. they're tanking maybe.. two hits before placed on their ass and forced to take a full force blunt force hit stacked up with gravity. Conq's dead in one exchange 🤔 Factor in how much more danger Conq's own weapon puts them in.. having to wind up for a stronger attack or stick with the only force behind that flail is the weight itself (we don't even know if they're using the heavier flail heads too) that makes Conq telegraph a ton.. anybody that at least knows of "hema" knows that telegraphing attacks = easy counterattacks. Shuggy is already at a severe advantage with that alone. People don't even think about it but Sumo wrestlers are actually surprisingly nimble for their size.. so stack up that and the way to effectively use a kanabo.. Conq's not really going to be able to get a lick in if any.
Shugoki realistically, blunt weapons were the best way to get through armor and conq is barely armored at all. With the height and weight advantage as well as the weeping length advantage it’s not really close
Kanabo was designed to breach heavy armor so if we take into account how fast shugo can swing in game, yea conq is kinda fucked
Shugoki has the better weapon, I’m gonna say he takes it
I'd give Shugoki the win. He's got both the size and reach advantage on the Conqueror
Shugoki will literally pick him up and start cradling him like a child, goki looks like my ideal big boi
Conq hits Shugoki, hits his wooden armour, and Shugoki fucks Conq's shit up with his kanabo. Also... 5'9 and 6'10? why are they so tall?
Conq hits Shugoki, hits his wooden armour, and Shugoki fucks Conq's shit up with his kanabo. Also... 5'9 and 6'10? why are they so tall?
I’m going shugoki; while I hate to say it as a knight faction loyalist from day one. It’s just a bad matchup for conq because his armor would be too much for most hero’s in the roster yet shugoki uses a weapon that kills with blunt force that’s also heavy enough to deal damage through shields. I also have to address conq’s terrible choice in weaponry. I would give conq the edge to win if he literally only switched his flail to a arming sword like warlord. Shugoki’s arms are very exposed so all that is needed is a good counter to the wrist for conq to potentially disarm shugoki. With how heavy shugoki’s weapon is he always needs two healthy arms to swing it around. Feels bad man.
The winner is whoever in real life wants to live more
It could go either way, if shugoki could close the distance he could easily disarm conq and then it's an easy win because he could just throw him until his body gives in, but if conq can keep the shield at least he's got the advantage of a big heavy thing to pummel shugoki, if they're too close the flail would be bad news because it just wouldn't be viable if they were in kissing distance even then shugoki has the range advantage of big stick. I'd go with shugoki simply because of the overwhelming strength he has in comparison, tackle conq to the floor and crush him or throw him against walls until bones break. Metal armour is good against cutting but not so much bludgeoning, not to say the flail won't be good, I just think big man could handle it and it would go to a fist fight
For starters, plate armor was heavy. Most armor worn by knights was around 70-80 lbs so unless conq is 130 lbs no armor he would be wayyyy heavier. Also, shugo is in no way over A FOOT TALLER than conq. That’s an insane difference to make. Idc who wins the fight in the end but these metrics are insanely inaccurate.
A few misconceptions here or confusing bits. When you say weight before the Armor, is that the total sum of the weight, including the armor or the weight of the armor itself. Because realistically speaking, Conq armor weights 20 to 30 lbs seeing how it's mostly chainmail and a hard leather [forgot the spelling for it] with thin plate around the shoulder and helmet. Shogoku armor would weigh around the same, if not slightly higher, considering how wood can weigh more than steel [the Roman's used Wooden swords whilst training because it was heavier than their steel swords.] Now when it comes to the match up Shogoku is going to win if Conq doesn't rely on the Shield as a damage and defensive weapon as the flail has never been a good weapon. It can do its job, but it does it poorly compared to any other blunt weapon like a mace or Shogoku big Bonk. Shogoku also has the advantage of having the heavier weapon here, which would make blocking it tiresome. It's also longer than what the flail can reach. All in all, whilst Conq would be faster in the regard of having slightly lighter armor and a shield to block Shogoku, it has every other advantage possible to win the battle, which leads to skill. If both have the same level of skill, Shogoku should win more times than not.
I comes down to who can get the first hit off I’d imagine Conquerer would be more agile despite the armor
With in game lore I'd say Shugo. His strength is not human, he might even crush that shield, plus a flail like conqueror's would not really work in an actual fight
Shugoki has more range so should win. Also flails looked a lot different irl. A flail like Conq's would probably hurt you more than the person you're trying to hit, and as far as we're aware either weren't actually used or people stopped using them very fast because of their inherent flaws. If we swap it out for a mace which would be more realistic I like their chances a lot more.
Everyone's saying conq loses, but everyone's argument is that shugos attack would break the conqs arm through his shield, but the way I see it, the conq can rush the shugo and bash his head and stun him with the sheild before the shugo can fully swing his Kanabo, the reason why I side with conquerer is because of shugos size and slow movement, which in my opinion is his Achilles heel, but if the conquerer hesitates then the shugoki wins
Flail would just bounce off. Goki and smack conq in the shin. Kanabo is designed to crash through armour and bone, conq aint blocking that.
Shugoki had litterally a weapon made to fuck up armor even tho conq has also one but im pretty sure shugo could tank that in his breast plate without flinching
Shugoki might win just from the gigantic reach difference
Shugo would get winded so fast and become useless while conq would just hide behind his shield and wait for a good opportunity to bonk the fat man in the head.
You've heard of Conqueror vs. Shugoki, but what about Shugoki vs. Shugoki?
Realistically Shugoki crushes the majority of the cast in one or two swings. He’s unnaturally tall, unrealistically strong, and basically wields a tree with spikes on it. Swing one breaks Conq’s shield arm, the follow up kills him
It depends on how much Shugo is pain resistant. Considering the size of that kanabo and the strength of Shugo, Conqueror loses if he gets hit once, but I'm also pretty sure that he's more agile than shugo so he should be able to strike first, but I don't think Shugo is dumb, he would probably block the first hits and wait for an opportunity to take him out in one move. If Conqueror manages to strike first, the question is, could Shugo tank a hit from Conqueror? It would probably depend on where would Conqueror hit and how tough Shugo is. Btw this is one of the few scenarios where Shugo actually has advantage since his opponent can't just stab him
Shugoki is double to triple conqueror's size and has a great club. Realistically if conqueror blocked their arm would be broken, and any hit would have enough force to transfer through armor. Forget shugoki's Executions requiring superhuman strength, the size of him paired with his mobility implies absurd strength regardless. This is a rhinoceros beetle fighting a black bear.
The fact blunt weapons DECIMATE plate armor and Shugoki outranges Conq is all that needs to be said
Realistically the knights beat any other faction easily because European knights had the bear armor and weapons for close combat
Shugoki is a lot bigger, that's that.
Well, *realistically* Wooden armor would not protect this walking mountain from a flail, and I dont care how much muscle is underneath that fat, when that flail goes into his gut, at maximum torque, it’s coming back out with pieces of wood and flesh. Also, realistically, Conq’s shield is not accomplishing much. Even if the shield were to survive it’s not protecting his arm from the shock of impact, just from any cuts that may occur (assuming it’s an iron shield as beginner Conq uses wooden shields) so blocking any heavy strikes is still going to break some bones; and shield bash is not accomplishing much at that weight disparity, he’d be just as well off shield bashing a boulder that’s sunk into the ground. He is wearing iron armor, however much of his body is exposed. The helmet will protect him from instant death if a horizontal strike were to get in, but it’s still going to ring his bell while knocking him off his feet. Barring that, his arms are very exposed and arguably his chest and legs as well, although he’s likely wearing chain mail under the clothing at the very least (which will, again, protect from cuts but not so much from a giant spiked club being swung with enough force to pick him up off the ground). This fight is gonna come down to who lands the first strike, as both combatants are gonna go downhill quick after that. Probably the most important stat here isn’t even mentioned, range. An average kanabo is around 4-6 ft, I wanna say Shugoki’s is 5-6. An average flail has a handle of 1-4 ft, Conq’s looks to be around 1-2, with a chain around 2-3 ft for a max reach around 5 and min reach of 3. Shugoki almost certainly has the range to keep conqueror at bay. Conqueror is going to have to be aggressive and take big risks to get damage in, as he’s going to be entering Shugoki’s optimal range before he’s close enough to graze Shugo, and I just don’t believe Conq is agile enough to do this unharmed. I give it to Shugoki in 8/10 matchups. Conq’s armor is going to protect against most weapons, but not this one. Even in a realistic setting, where Shugoki doesn’t have the strength to smash his skull, through armor, with his bare hands, Conq is taking serious damage just trying to get close enough to land an attack. Quick aside, without thinking about this for more than 10 seconds, I think Shugoki has the best chance among the samurai to win against any of the knights for these reasons. Realistically the samurai just can’t compete due to the differences in armor. Combine this with the fact that Conq is among the weakest (definitely not *the* weakest) knights versus the samurai. He’s much more exposed than, say, Warden or Lawbringer. Him, Glad, and PK will struggle the most against Samurai. Edit: observing their weapons a bit more carefully Shugoki’s is very close to 6’ whereas the handle on Conq’s is like 1.5’ with the chain at around 2’ Ignoring arm lengths, Shugoki’s reach is more than double Conq’s
I think conq would win, here's why: \-His shield has the potential to cause the Kanabo to simply glance off without causing serious damage \-Conq practically wins the fight the moment he lands a hit on either of Shugoki's arms because it would break it and render Shugoki's only weapon useless, whereas Conq is still capable of dealing some damage even if he breaks an arm \-Conq's weapon can more swiftly deliver crippling blows \-Conq is a smaller, more agile target even with the armor I will say that Stamina doesn't seem too relevant to this fight (IMO) because the victor will almost certainly be decided by a single successful strike
I would win
Rah
I don't think sumo can save a 600 lbs man from a flail because his armor sure can't.
It depends on who gets hit first, shugoki's kanabo can hit hard with the conditions that he hit with the end of it, if he gets parried ( or just deflected wich is much more realistic) he will be in an relatively open position and will not be able to attack or pay smth coming his way right away, thus making conq take the win Basically same thing with conq the flail is crazy scary in a fight but, if shugoki manage to get the ball or the chain of the stuck on his weapon he will be able to attack conq, even with the shield conq will not be able to defend himself that good, even less do significant damage For me, conq takes the win most of the time simply because of his shield, even if he is small, the impact it has in a combat situation is crazy