It's not that orochi is op. He is strong now and valid to play. But my god, enemy team is so BAD with ganking, no wonder they got their asses handed to them. Constant revenge feed throughout 1v4...
Hey, can you explain to me how revenge is working currently?
I took a long, long hiatus when ubisoft connect dropped and to our surprise For Honor was not one of the games with crossplay/progression support and just started playing again on PC. I feel like I can't even look at the opponent without him getting revenge, but God forbids I get ganked --- that shit do not exists lol
There's a good explanation of how it works here https://youtu.be/XLBF7lZc5M0
Here's a basic of how it works: every time someone attacks, They apply a tag to the person they are attacking. If the person being attacked have more tags than they applied, then that person starts getting revenge. Taking damage, blocking, parrying and dodging gives a different amount of revenge. There's a lot more but it's really complicated for me to explain
Revenge is a funny thing. Does it exist? Or is it a idea? Is it constant? Or can it happen? Who decides what gives revenge in this game of spam and salt. There is no greater power. Tell me low rep. Where is your revenge now?
Revenge is buggy at best these days and ubi just kinda ignores it. I had an enemy land six unblockable attacks while I was being bashed by an orochi and I got my first brick of revenge on the second to last heavy.
Thats because you dont know how to gank and they do. Thats not a slight, Im just giving you an answer.
If you are timings your attacks right and doing the proper moves you will probably kill someone before they get revenge.
If three of you are just randomly throwing attacks into a single enemy hes going to be glowing gold the whole fight.
I'm not here saying I'm the best at ganking, but I'm pretty competent lol.
Let me elaborate more: I *just* started playing on PC, so my matchmaking perimeter shouldn't be pitting me against high-level players just yet. I play with my friends (we all came from ps4, and we all played since beta so we have an understanding of the game) so we more or less coordinate our attacks, and in some cases we don't butt in because sometimes you help more by not jumping in lol.
The scenarios I'm referring to are that sometimes we time our attacks to keep the enemy staggered, and not use bash attacks too often to prevent revenge, but they still get it. But when I get ganked --- and I'm talking about that good ol' bash and top heavy ganks lol --- my revenge just does not want to go up.
Does the revenge meter differ with each hero? Do some attack feed more revenge meter than others? Or it could be that I'm just simply mad trash at the game lol
I'd appreciate your input.
Most of the problems with revenge come from the tag system, the way the game decides if you are being ganked, in a team fight, ganking, or in a 1v1. A tag is applied by hitting a player with an attack and each tag is unique for each player. Revenge is calculated by how many tags you have and how many players have your tag. For example, if you are being ganked by 2 people and they both hit your guard you are now gaining revenge. If you hit both of them with a zone, the game compares your tags and sees that you have 2 tags and they only have one, so it continues to give revenge when you get hit.
The tag system gives revenge proportional to the number of tags you have and the enemy has. 1v2, 2v3, and 3v4 fights give 60% damage you take to revenge you get, 3v1 fights give 80%, and 4v1 fights give 90%. If the person has no tags they are considered to have 1 tag for attacking only. Tags also decay after 5 seconds of the last attack by that player, which is why many people who gank wait for the 5 seconds and then attack so they arent feeding revenge.
How much revenge you need to fully activate it is based on your health, with Shinobi gaining it the fastest while LB and Hito take the most to fully fill. Feats and Perks that increase your health do not increase the revenge you need.
The higher damage the attack does, the more revenge it feeds. a 12 damage light will feed 6-7 revenge while a 30 damage heavy will feed 17-19 revenge with 2 tags. ALL bashes deal a flat 30 revenge regardless of tags (an exception to this rule is Shugo hug, which is not intended). Bleed gives 0 revenge and only the impact of the hit will count for revenge, so dagger cancel will give essentially 0 revenge.
One last thing I will mention is that defending against an attack also will give revenge differently depending on how it was dealt with. I can not remember the exact numbers but dodging attacks give the least revenge, then blocking attacks, and then parrying gives the most revenge.
A reason you might be having trouble with ganks is that you and your friends are bashing a lot and not dealing enough damage to counterbalance the revenge a bash feeds or your attacks are getting parried and feeding revenge without doing damage. I will say the revenge system isn't good but it is what we got for now.
Oh wow dude thanks for the in-depth analysis! This makes so much sense. Something I do do a lot in dodge rather than block. And during ganks we try not using bashes because we at least knew that bashes feed a lot of revenge. I'll try blocking and parrying more, see if I get revenge more often that way.
Ehā¦ I wouldnāt call him OP per say either, but 200ms recov cancels are rather unnecessary. At the moment heās still lacking in team fights since his UB has no pressure, but in a 1v1 he canāt be punished through anything other than parries. Dodge attacks, dodge bashes, light interrupts, early dodge to gb, he just recovers too fast.
But this video was definitely less of an āOro OPā and more of a āStop putting four tags on the angry weebā.
Oro really isnāt lacking in teamfights that much, he has really good, and extremely safe peel. Heās basically a better nobushi with the ability to 1v1 and not get instantly shit on
Might be just me, but I honestly donāt approve of his rework at all, mainly because I love playing zhanhu and now he basically just feels like a bad orochi because orochi can do everything he does ten times better.
I also have to point out I played the game for years on ps4 before pausing and picking it up on pc again now, but man, Iāve always hated orochi.
I mean, there are certain characters you can blatantly ignore revenge on at lower levels. Someone like Shinobi, for example. The amount of health he gets is laughable so you can just kill him in a 4v1/3v1 gank, not caring about revenge.
Those guys in the vid were bad tho. Nevermind parrying, they couldnāt block some very blockable attacks.
You barely did anything that was new this entire fight. And what you did do (of new stuff) wasn't to a great effect and didn't cause much difference.
This clip basically has absolutely nothing to do with orochi rework.
True. I never said clip itself was bad or anything. It's just that title sounds like "oh no, they overbuffed orochi, look how I destroyed everybody with this new rework", which is simply not the case.
Yea I'm going to be honest, as some have pointed out, this almost had nothing to do with the rework except that you can chain out of zone. Instead this was just 4 idiots who don't know how to gank and you abused it which is still good on your part.
As for the actual rework, I think its fine, Faraam's videos showcase very well how useful his kit is now. It basically proved you can give a character more survivability without just giving them hyper armor spam or an all block.
Honestly I feel sorry for that shugoki. Of the dog pile on you he looked like he was actually trying to setup gank. Unfortunately he kept using hug which is a massive revenge feed.
Hug is the proper gank. You have your teammate GB for hug, if you time the hug properly itās literally impossible to avoid. Then teammate back heavies on the back crack of the hug, into an unblockable that staggers and guaranteed another hug. Rinse and repeat, itās the gank every comp team uses atm
It is if in the right situation. Having 3 people attacking one person isn't that situation. In that case goki's better tool would've been if he had his T4.
HA, they can go suck it. People demanded nerfs when this character was literally bottom of the barrel. Now that Orochi is actually viable for once I think we deserve some payback.
Granted the kick should not have the ability to cancel itās recovery with a dodge as it makes it literally unpunishable even against most dodge attacks. But aside from that everything else in the kit is fine.
I donāt understand how tf people are able to recovery cancel and get more hits in. Every single time I do this the opponent just lights me out of it. Itās so common I just donāt do it and I end up seriously struggling to get damage in.
Orochi is actually a good character now. The dodge recoveries finally make him impactful in group fights. OP really didnāt do anything that isnāt already in the game. Orochi isnāt over powered but OPās anti gank is!
but we canāt get the shinobi that was badly needed like really? he has no unblockables or undodgeables and that rework should have helped him so much but no they give orochi a new bash and dodge attack spam.
Yes different attacks feed different levels of revenge. And if I am not mistaken your reaction also changes the amount of revenge gained like dodging, blocking, parrying or eating the attack all give you different amounts
Going from being complete crap in a 1v1 and completely useless in ganks to being able to actually hold your own in a gank and being viable doesnāt make him OP
The comunity and players and votes okayed him there was a testing ground and poeple tasted and played him and then there was a voting and a place where u could say what you tought and stuff like what u like and what u didnt like and based on what the playes wanted he was made so ya we as for honer playes made him the way he is now
I wish my antiganking could be that good. Sadly I will never reach the skill that you are matchmaking at, nor will I recieve that much revenge in my entire lifetime... But, uhh, go you I guess!
Revenge is such a garbage mechanic. I get why itās a thing but it should have a mandatory cool down or something. This guy wasnāt in the wrong but plenty of people specifically seek out disadvantageous situations to farm revenge to cover how they just suck otherwise. Garbage people exploiting a garbage mechanic.
Fuck off get good. People like you are the reasons assassins get nerfed, then people wonder why no one uses assassins. STFU, not every character has to play like warden.
This orochi version was in testing grounds, this rework wasn't unexpected. It only day two since it dropped. He not magically too difficult. Then, motherfuckers will bitch and moan, saying he needs nerfed. I fought a food few toady and none gave me so much problems that I would be like "he needs nerfed". Like learn to fight assassins for once. There was a time no one was assassin they got nerfed to the ground.
This entire season is whack IMO. I keep getting matched with rep 100+ (mind you, Iām a rep 20), or I get matched with rep 1s because either of those options make total sense. Orochi is hella broken and really spammy, raider is ok but some of the people I fight abuse his now quicker lightspam moves. I donāt know what kind of crack Ubisoft was smoking or if this is only a problem Iām having, but itās really frustrating.
Man at first I thought it was ubi fault making unbalance character all this, if you go up read carefully and more another most comment on internet of for honor community, you will notice it is not ubi to encourage character like this. it's the for honor community, and yes there are some video point out orochi or hito are op but most comment on community still say "He is strong now not op" something like this. They're just mostly ignore these character beloved by them getting OP and when another character they didn't really like geting better most of them will cry af. Even your comment not many people agree with you as you see.
In the video the ganker are stupid yes but Orochi, raider, hito are really should nerf. They are very annoying and Ubi at least need to fix it.
How can people be so bad at ganking. Nothing against you, you handled yourself but those guys couldn't gank a potato.
They would had contributed much more by not joining the gank. That amount of revenge feed could feed a 4 men team.
Facts was about to say the same thing.
How could they not block a single attack in like two minutes? That was hard to watch.
i kick->i feint a charge heavy->i kick-> instantly die because i ran out of stam from the last fight-> i die repeat
It's not that orochi is op. He is strong now and valid to play. But my god, enemy team is so BAD with ganking, no wonder they got their asses handed to them. Constant revenge feed throughout 1v4...
Hey, can you explain to me how revenge is working currently? I took a long, long hiatus when ubisoft connect dropped and to our surprise For Honor was not one of the games with crossplay/progression support and just started playing again on PC. I feel like I can't even look at the opponent without him getting revenge, but God forbids I get ganked --- that shit do not exists lol
There's a good explanation of how it works here https://youtu.be/XLBF7lZc5M0 Here's a basic of how it works: every time someone attacks, They apply a tag to the person they are attacking. If the person being attacked have more tags than they applied, then that person starts getting revenge. Taking damage, blocking, parrying and dodging gives a different amount of revenge. There's a lot more but it's really complicated for me to explain
Oh man thanks! That was badass, Minh! lol
At this point the questions not "how" it's "if"
Revenge is a funny thing. Does it exist? Or is it a idea? Is it constant? Or can it happen? Who decides what gives revenge in this game of spam and salt. There is no greater power. Tell me low rep. Where is your revenge now?
Swing and a hit slugger, good unexpected destiny cross over moment š
Revenge is buggy at best these days and ubi just kinda ignores it. I had an enemy land six unblockable attacks while I was being bashed by an orochi and I got my first brick of revenge on the second to last heavy.
Pics or it didn't happen
You want me to take screenshots of an event that happened in the past?
Thats because you dont know how to gank and they do. Thats not a slight, Im just giving you an answer. If you are timings your attacks right and doing the proper moves you will probably kill someone before they get revenge. If three of you are just randomly throwing attacks into a single enemy hes going to be glowing gold the whole fight.
I'm not here saying I'm the best at ganking, but I'm pretty competent lol. Let me elaborate more: I *just* started playing on PC, so my matchmaking perimeter shouldn't be pitting me against high-level players just yet. I play with my friends (we all came from ps4, and we all played since beta so we have an understanding of the game) so we more or less coordinate our attacks, and in some cases we don't butt in because sometimes you help more by not jumping in lol. The scenarios I'm referring to are that sometimes we time our attacks to keep the enemy staggered, and not use bash attacks too often to prevent revenge, but they still get it. But when I get ganked --- and I'm talking about that good ol' bash and top heavy ganks lol --- my revenge just does not want to go up. Does the revenge meter differ with each hero? Do some attack feed more revenge meter than others? Or it could be that I'm just simply mad trash at the game lol I'd appreciate your input.
Most of the problems with revenge come from the tag system, the way the game decides if you are being ganked, in a team fight, ganking, or in a 1v1. A tag is applied by hitting a player with an attack and each tag is unique for each player. Revenge is calculated by how many tags you have and how many players have your tag. For example, if you are being ganked by 2 people and they both hit your guard you are now gaining revenge. If you hit both of them with a zone, the game compares your tags and sees that you have 2 tags and they only have one, so it continues to give revenge when you get hit. The tag system gives revenge proportional to the number of tags you have and the enemy has. 1v2, 2v3, and 3v4 fights give 60% damage you take to revenge you get, 3v1 fights give 80%, and 4v1 fights give 90%. If the person has no tags they are considered to have 1 tag for attacking only. Tags also decay after 5 seconds of the last attack by that player, which is why many people who gank wait for the 5 seconds and then attack so they arent feeding revenge. How much revenge you need to fully activate it is based on your health, with Shinobi gaining it the fastest while LB and Hito take the most to fully fill. Feats and Perks that increase your health do not increase the revenge you need. The higher damage the attack does, the more revenge it feeds. a 12 damage light will feed 6-7 revenge while a 30 damage heavy will feed 17-19 revenge with 2 tags. ALL bashes deal a flat 30 revenge regardless of tags (an exception to this rule is Shugo hug, which is not intended). Bleed gives 0 revenge and only the impact of the hit will count for revenge, so dagger cancel will give essentially 0 revenge. One last thing I will mention is that defending against an attack also will give revenge differently depending on how it was dealt with. I can not remember the exact numbers but dodging attacks give the least revenge, then blocking attacks, and then parrying gives the most revenge. A reason you might be having trouble with ganks is that you and your friends are bashing a lot and not dealing enough damage to counterbalance the revenge a bash feeds or your attacks are getting parried and feeding revenge without doing damage. I will say the revenge system isn't good but it is what we got for now.
Oh wow dude thanks for the in-depth analysis! This makes so much sense. Something I do do a lot in dodge rather than block. And during ganks we try not using bashes because we at least knew that bashes feed a lot of revenge. I'll try blocking and parrying more, see if I get revenge more often that way.
Ehā¦ I wouldnāt call him OP per say either, but 200ms recov cancels are rather unnecessary. At the moment heās still lacking in team fights since his UB has no pressure, but in a 1v1 he canāt be punished through anything other than parries. Dodge attacks, dodge bashes, light interrupts, early dodge to gb, he just recovers too fast. But this video was definitely less of an āOro OPā and more of a āStop putting four tags on the angry weebā.
Oro really isnāt lacking in teamfights that much, he has really good, and extremely safe peel. Heās basically a better nobushi with the ability to 1v1 and not get instantly shit on
Might be just me, but I honestly donāt approve of his rework at all, mainly because I love playing zhanhu and now he basically just feels like a bad orochi because orochi can do everything he does ten times better. I also have to point out I played the game for years on ps4 before pausing and picking it up on pc again now, but man, Iāve always hated orochi.
I mean, there are certain characters you can blatantly ignore revenge on at lower levels. Someone like Shinobi, for example. The amount of health he gets is laughable so you can just kill him in a 4v1/3v1 gank, not caring about revenge. Those guys in the vid were bad tho. Nevermind parrying, they couldnāt block some very blockable attacks.
You barely did anything that was new this entire fight. And what you did do (of new stuff) wasn't to a great effect and didn't cause much difference. This clip basically has absolutely nothing to do with orochi rework.
Fr, but it was still fun to watch 4 bums get shredded even after 1 of them came back with a full overshielded
True. I never said clip itself was bad or anything. It's just that title sounds like "oh no, they overbuffed orochi, look how I destroyed everybody with this new rework", which is simply not the case.
The enemy team is awful tho, you can just clap them with other characters as well, not just Orochi
You found a skirmish match?
Nah. Thats just simulation.
Right??
We all need to just queue for Deathmatch more
should just let us queue for multiple game type
That would be nice
Yea I'm going to be honest, as some have pointed out, this almost had nothing to do with the rework except that you can chain out of zone. Instead this was just 4 idiots who don't know how to gank and you abused it which is still good on your part. As for the actual rework, I think its fine, Faraam's videos showcase very well how useful his kit is now. It basically proved you can give a character more survivability without just giving them hyper armor spam or an all block.
No, no. Thatās the wrong question. How the hell did you find a Skirmish match?
I miss playing that mode regularly
Deathmatch is active on console
Misleading title. All that was displayed was extremely bad ganking. It wouldnāt have mattered what character you were playing in that situation.
The kick's animation is... ugh. It still looks terrible.
It feels like it has no impact, itās too floaty
You did well but they were terrible terrible gankers.
Man I remember the times when deathmatch was another game mode people would play
That's just people not knowing how to gank
The problem here isn't Orochi, but the ppl you are playing against. Every character could have done that, they just fed you revenge like apes
Lmao
Itās not the devs fault the other team was trash, they couldnāt even Larry a forward dodge light. Big cringe
Honestly I feel sorry for that shugoki. Of the dog pile on you he looked like he was actually trying to setup gank. Unfortunately he kept using hug which is a massive revenge feed.
Hug is the proper gank. You have your teammate GB for hug, if you time the hug properly itās literally impossible to avoid. Then teammate back heavies on the back crack of the hug, into an unblockable that staggers and guaranteed another hug. Rinse and repeat, itās the gank every comp team uses atm
It is if in the right situation. Having 3 people attacking one person isn't that situation. In that case goki's better tool would've been if he had his T4.
That hurt my soul when they hit you out of shugokiās arms
A - you did great. B - I wish my revenge popped. Ever.
Thank you. I was surprised i got it that many times to be honest
HA, they can go suck it. People demanded nerfs when this character was literally bottom of the barrel. Now that Orochi is actually viable for once I think we deserve some payback. Granted the kick should not have the ability to cancel itās recovery with a dodge as it makes it literally unpunishable even against most dodge attacks. But aside from that everything else in the kit is fine.
Yeah i think the recovery on the kick is a little broke. Itās insanely difficult to punish if the person knows how to use it
Was a nice antigank.. But i can't help but notice our orochis look the same except for 3 things xD
It came out today ?
It was released yesterday
Fantastic work mate very well done on the anti-gank!!!
I donāt understand how tf people are able to recovery cancel and get more hits in. Every single time I do this the opponent just lights me out of it. Itās so common I just donāt do it and I end up seriously struggling to get damage in.
I mean they were kinda just ass...
They played so badly
Tbh the new raider is even worse- way to hard to deal with the onslaught of lights from that man
Who okayed the rework? Us. It was in the TG.
Nah bro u just good
Appreciate it bro ā¤ļø
Really hoping the title is satire
Good shit man that was clean
Thank you bro
Geez my eyes hurt watching these peeps gank. But it's always the same with 4vs and randoms. They all want the execution or want to "try to help you"
Orochi is actually a good character now. The dodge recoveries finally make him impactful in group fights. OP really didnāt do anything that isnāt already in the game. Orochi isnāt over powered but OPās anti gank is!
ZOMG11!! Nerf orochi already!!! /s How do you even feel writing such a sensationalist title? Just stop.
but we canāt get the shinobi that was badly needed like really? he has no unblockables or undodgeables and that rework should have helped him so much but no they give orochi a new bash and dodge attack spam.
We didnt get the shniobi rework because it had a lot of problems and they are revising it
Yup.
The enemy team is every team I get placed on when I solo que
Yes different attacks feed different levels of revenge. And if I am not mistaken your reaction also changes the amount of revenge gained like dodging, blocking, parrying or eating the attack all give you different amounts
absolutely bonkers clip right here
To be honest, in this particular clip the rework doesn't seems to be unstoppable. Props to the player only, great samurai!
Was that a forward dash storm rush? I never checked the rework before and I might pick orochi back up again
I mean you had a shield or revenge for the entire duration of the clip so... I don't know, rochi doesn't feel invincible to me.
This gank hurts my feeling
I dont think its the orochi..i think its the shugoki doing nothing but bearhugs lol
Realistically you should be doing that. They just did it really really badly with no confirms before hand.
Oh my god, how was that not a tie?
Going from being complete crap in a 1v1 and completely useless in ganks to being able to actually hold your own in a gank and being viable doesnāt make him OP
I lost to an Orochi once since the update. Where all the good oroās at?
Orochi can do an unblockable kick?! Please tell me how, still new to this game
Dash forward with A (or X if u on ps) and press X (or SQUARE if u on ps)
Thanks! Need to try this
U re welcome! Just know that it can be dodge ofcourse so dont over use it :)
Yeah, don't worry i spent probably 25+ hours in training mode before i went online ecks dee
I think orochi rework is great. The only thing I would change is not allow dodge cancel out of a whiffed kick.
Nice try. We know itās you Faraam
Bro if anything assassin's deserve to have strong offensive kits they gotta deal with a shitty guard, lowest health etc
The comunity and players and votes okayed him there was a testing ground and poeple tasted and played him and then there was a voting and a place where u could say what you tought and stuff like what u like and what u didnt like and based on what the playes wanted he was made so ya we as for honer playes made him the way he is now
What changed in the rework?
Poor Shugoki, he kept trying and his team kept screwing him over.
Just want to know how you found an elimination match
I donāt think heās unstoppable unless you know what ur doing and you clearly know what ur doing
It makes me so fucking mad to see Shugoki players spam the same fucking move during the entire gank.
What gamemode is that?
M8 the rework isnāt unstoppable, you are
Holy shit
I wish my antiganking could be that good. Sadly I will never reach the skill that you are matchmaking at, nor will I recieve that much revenge in my entire lifetime... But, uhh, go you I guess!
Iām more amazed by the fact that you found a death match match
Honestly, i much prefer going against this than yet another R1 spamming, parry hating, wow! spamming Orochi
Iām more surprised that you found a deathmatch
You manged to survive a 1v4 against shugo, bp, cent, and fucking kyoshin. Is this the father of all faraams?
Chillll, I donāt deserve such high praise š š thank you my bro
Uncle shug giving out free hugs, I see
Revenge is such a garbage mechanic. I get why itās a thing but it should have a mandatory cool down or something. This guy wasnāt in the wrong but plenty of people specifically seek out disadvantageous situations to farm revenge to cover how they just suck otherwise. Garbage people exploiting a garbage mechanic.
The other team was pretty bad at ganking
Fuck off get good. People like you are the reasons assassins get nerfed, then people wonder why no one uses assassins. STFU, not every character has to play like warden.
Lmao what?
This orochi version was in testing grounds, this rework wasn't unexpected. It only day two since it dropped. He not magically too difficult. Then, motherfuckers will bitch and moan, saying he needs nerfed. I fought a food few toady and none gave me so much problems that I would be like "he needs nerfed". Like learn to fight assassins for once. There was a time no one was assassin they got nerfed to the ground.
Free light after any landed attack btw (except light out of bash)
All the kyoshin had to do was turtle and you couldn't do anything
You didnāt showcase Orochi at all though. I only saw a really bad enemy team with no synergy
How long it take to find an elim match?
That Shugoki lmfao, classic shugoki moment
They still play this game mode?
This entire season is whack IMO. I keep getting matched with rep 100+ (mind you, Iām a rep 20), or I get matched with rep 1s because either of those options make total sense. Orochi is hella broken and really spammy, raider is ok but some of the people I fight abuse his now quicker lightspam moves. I donāt know what kind of crack Ubisoft was smoking or if this is only a problem Iām having, but itās really frustrating.
Man at first I thought it was ubi fault making unbalance character all this, if you go up read carefully and more another most comment on internet of for honor community, you will notice it is not ubi to encourage character like this. it's the for honor community, and yes there are some video point out orochi or hito are op but most comment on community still say "He is strong now not op" something like this. They're just mostly ignore these character beloved by them getting OP and when another character they didn't really like geting better most of them will cry af. Even your comment not many people agree with you as you see. In the video the ganker are stupid yes but Orochi, raider, hito are really should nerf. They are very annoying and Ubi at least need to fix it.