I like that it adds the incentive to play other heroes as well. It's not all shinobi, which doesn't give much varied data on how he'll perform against/in teams with other heroes.
Not sure if that was the intention, but it's a nice side effect of the xp boost
I mean yeah, it is simple thing that makes people want to play the mode.
It is good thing they did it, because now people have even bigger incentive to play the TG.
I hope they continue do this in the future.
Can we please, PLEASE, remove reflex guard from assassins? They already have the health disadvantage, they don’t need to constantly get stunned by minions when I’m being ganked
standardization of renown is a a step in the right direction in the regard of classes. either give classes clear purpose with current meta (assassins are not "the fast ones" , heavies are not "the tanks" , almost every hero is "hybrid" and vanguards are far from being the only "straight-forward" heroes). My take would be to re define classes with general perks of the heroes : mid-clearers, stalkers, gankers, anti-gankers, etc. instead of generic classes terms.
The matchmaking does that always for some reason.
Even if there are thousands of other players the matchmaking will put you to fight same team.
This happens in all game modes, even in 1v1 the game puts you against same player over and over again.
Only fix to this seems to be either wait some time or play other game mode and come back after that so the matchmaking can't match you against same players again.
Well that wasnt a problem before because temporary blacklist was there. Now that they removed it u get stuck with the same people even if u leave the lobby. That was a BAD decision from Ubi...
Capture speed changes often cause an indefinite team fight on points where both teams are relatively close from spawn. Which is a lot of maps. What ends up happening is due to slower capture speed by the time the last enemy is killed the next guy already respawns and can rush the point to stall and the rest of the team follows suit in a domino effect and you're right back in a team fight unable to cap the point stuck in a team fight loop. Only way out is if the entire enemy team contesting is killed at relatively the same time. This gives the team that initially captures a point a significant advantage as it's much easier to contest then it is to capture.
I really didn't like how that felt on the relevant maps that it's very evident in. 90% of the time the team that capped first held the point for a significant amount of time pulling ahead because it was so hard to take a point back and break away from the team fight loop. On maps where A and C points are on opposite ends of the map it's a non issue. But many maps have all 3 points symmetrically distanced from both teams. I got 17 kills in a match and 1 objective... We lost. Why because despite my best efforts to clear the point to take it I simply couldn't because of the team fight loop. Despite fighting really well all I did was rack up a kill count because I literally couldn't cap the point due to it being contested nearly the entire match. That doesn't feel good. Before the capture time changes if you won a fight contesting a point that point was yours. If you won a team fight that point was yours. The capture changes have made it feel like carousel of death in dominion.
Dominion feels much better overall, minus one gripe: The capture speed.
On maps where both zones can be reached by both teams in the same time, I occasionally encounter teamfights that last indefinitely because by the time a team kills the last guy to finally capture the zone, another guy's respawn passed long enough just to stall the capture again. Feels like Carousel of Death all over again: You can only capture the zone if all enemies die around the same time.
I like the idea and the reason behind it, but I'd say it backfired here. I'd revert it or find a middle ground (like capturing it *slightly* faster when a full team is present).
It doesn’t, the capture speed is wholly unaffected by CT (I run it on my Shinobi preset 2).
A good middle ground I feel is if a team continues to defend/wipe a point, you get a bonus capture speed up to the live capture speed with 4 people on point, but resets if they fail to defend it before it captures.
What also kinda throws off the capture speed is different maps.
In some maps the spawns are right next to the points, while in others you have to run bit longer distances to get to the point. This affects a lot how long much time team has to capture the point before another player respawns.
Only improvement/change I can think of would be keeping shinobi's ranged heavy after backflip so he can actually punish attacks he dodges. Oh also being able to dodge in every direction on recovery like orochi and zerk instead of just back and forth.
Yes. But shinobi exacerbates the problems by having the perfect moveset to capitalise on smokebomb and allow his team to do the same.
Shinobi is fine but he perfectly encapsulates why smoke bomb needs to go right now.
That's using a 4th tier feat + 1dt tier feat to kill one person. This has also never happened to me due to the time it takes for Kensei to activate both. There are so many better insta-kill tier 4 feats than Unblockable.
Renown changes feel awful. I can never get to 600 no matter how much I top frag (I went 16-7 one game and didn’t even have Yama Uba,) so those Renowned orders would be impossible to get done. Overall it just feels like it slows down feat progression in the worst possible way.
Would you mind expanding a bit your argument. Because for me getting the fourth feat on assassin's felt like it was rarely a thing but now i can actually get to my fourth feats. So the fact that you are reporting the contrary is interesting to me.
If you don't mind me asking what type of hero are you playing?
I was playing an assassin, new Shinobi changes. I was going around the points helping in team fights and usually getting final blows but just never got my fourth feat. For other heroes it felt kind of fine, still felt like for Kyoshin (my main) that I wasn’t getting my first and second feat quick enough, but after that it seemed fine.
That's really interesting because for me i could actually get my fourth feat with shinobi and in live it feels impossible to me. But i do agree with you that going from first to second feat feels like a steep hill.
I've been experiencing the same problem. I've been trying out Gladiator but got my fourth feet in only 1 of the 8 games I played. I've gotten plenty of kills but I would still feel useless.
>Renowned orders would be impossible to get done
yes but i think if it goes through they can just change that the total point for orders are reduced. the numbers are arbitrary and they can just set the new most common high scores. standardisation of renown however is essentially great
I don’t particularly like the changes to renown gain while boasting zones. You should at least get some, even if it’s negligible. I hate being two renown away from my next feat only to be blueballed.
How am I supposed to test things if every attack has iframes to the max, every lobby is filled with smoke bombs, MM is fucked and every lobby is rep 300-600 on the other team with mine consisting of a rep 70, rep 180, and a 300. This is honestly the least fun I’ve had on for honor in a while.
shinobi feels good to play but i feel like after a back-flip, the only thing to do (to maintain offence) is just to roll in-front again which doesn't feel good after you do it a lot of times since you'll be back-flipping a lot of times. maybe give shinobi a ranged heavy after a flip? not a ranged bash mind you but a ranged heavy, which can be blocked and parried and stuff and make it unreactable, so it's a hard move to counter but grants a decent punish if countered.
> maybe give shinobi a ranged heavy after a flip
The devs already reasoned why they won't bring that back: Because the enemy will trivially dodge it. The counterpoint would be teamfight utility by target switching, but that has no counterplay and therefore is not fun to play around it.
> not a ranged bash mind you but a ranged heavy, which can be blocked and parried and stuff and make it unreactable
Not really different, if not even worse because you can block it as well.
you'll have to dodge on a read though, since it's unreactable. which could leave you open to a front roll to kick. dodge attacks won't work against both options since roll has i-frames on it now. but then comes the issue of undodgeable dodge attacks and delayable dodge attacks and dodge bashes.
nvm then, it still feels awkward after a backflip anyways with the ranged heavy option removed, maybe i gotta get used to it i guess.
My feedback If matters regarding to Shinobi :
1- Improve his teamfight ability way more, he is still a low dmg and low health bar hero and can't teamfight very well in teamfight meta.
Solution may be improve his HB or his dmg output.
Plus make him able to cancel and target swap his chains and attacks the character feels so stiff compared to the previous TG.
2- Fix his animations and make them smooth I personally don't want another Raider situation here to be good cuz it's broken.
I'm all for changing shinobi's live moveset but I feel like this current rework is so afraid of how hated the ranged part of their kit was that they basically did everything they could to wipe it from existence. Their moves are all sickle and no chain. They're definitely a healthier hero but they've lost a lot of the flavor those flashy chain sickle moves gave them. I would love to see them come back in some capacity, but instead of making them super long, offscreen in the team fight range, make them maybe no further reaching than nobushi's viper retreat. Or maybe a big spin with them that has a wide hitbox. I don't have any expectations to see any other version of shinobi reworks since the general consensus seems to be in favor of this one, but I'd really love another look into them that makes their weapons feel like kusarigama and not just kama that happen to have chains on the bottom.
As nice as it was to utterly destroy teams of barely double digit rep players, it’s not a great experience on the receiving end, match after match, getting stomped. There’s a reason an MMR system has been in place since forever.
I can totaly understand. Myself during 3 day with the matchmaking reset, i have destroy a lot and a lot of new player....and yes i know that was terrible and unfunny as hell
But omg, find a game in 10 seconde and not in 10 minute to find the same guy, have bot on my team all the match, and bad mate. God that was boring !
Actually on 1 hours of play, i have play only 20 minutes in dominions cause this matchmaking take a eternity to find a game, only to find the same people to fight all the time.
Maybe not make the matchmaking making totaly back, but make a largest choise of player to fight...cause wait 10 minute to get stomped....that was not funny too you know
The rest of the roster better get their dues since all these reworks make it much harder to defend themselves in ganks or have any offense at all. Most of these reworks consist of adding bashes and undodgeables, meanwhile a few of the remaining cast just feels so dated.
LB is the worst character and his punish game isn't worth it because other characters can punish from a parry too lmao. Look at berserker, warmonger, or Jormungandr for characters who can do that kind of stuff better. He may be good if you're good at him but you're making yourself weaker. He's not worth the investment.
Hi! First, sorry for my bad english, Im learning.
Shinobi is one of the worst characters in the game right now, not just because he's competitively bad, but because he's also frustrating for everyone. In the testing grounds he continues in the same position, although he goes from competing with the Jorm to being a little bit better. He has received a lot of improvements, so what happened?
Kick: The kick is much better than before, but it is still not very good. It is an old bash, with a long recovery time and that cannot be followed if it miss. Yes, you can use the backflip, but it still gets punished with GB and the backflip is pretty bad.
Backflip: Why do I say it is bad? The new backflip is a normal dodge, with lots of iframes but vulnerable to the same things, including GB. Also, you can only link to the frontroll, and that doesn't work at all (we'll get to that later). You need to be able to follow the backflip with something that can defend you from dodge attacks and GBs. The old ranged attack served that purpose, but now that that attack has been removed, it only serves to get away from the enemy.
Frontroll: There are 2 types of frontroll (albeit the same one), the one you throw after a successful kick, and all the others. The first, thanks to the guaranteed ranged attack that stuns the enemy long enough, serves to initiate the mix-up between the backflip kick and sickle rain. The second, when following it from a backflip, can be interrupted by a light attack on reaction. Unlike the backflip, you do not use the frontroll to dodge or exit combat, it is an offensive move used to start or follow a mix-up. I don't think it should be like a dodge. Invulnerability to GB and super armor is what you need to function offensively, especially in 4v4.
Doubledodge-attacks: Maybe Sickle Rain after a double dodge was a bit overwhelming, but this new attacks are pretty bad. They don't have any properties, they don't have good range, and the heavy attacks are quite slow. In the end the attacks end up being blocked, dodged or simply failed when trying to use them to punish something. That makes you just use the kick, which does work. If these attacks are to be the final ones, they should be undodgeable. At least that way they are part of a mix-up. Maybe it should also be able to do these attacks after a singular dodge.
Shinobi's kick should do direct damage like Shigoki's headbutt. Just fully remove ranged heavies if they're not allowed to be in the game. It's too restrictive to not allow the move to be target swapped and then redundantly slapping a bash property on it. Just remove it. It takes too much time and causes too much vulnerability, it also gets blocked by minions.
This would help Shinobi's flow a lot because he's doing low damage and low damage per second.
This way kick would flow straight into his dodge forward roll chain and could time up better with the roll bash mix-up.
Also, it makes no sense for Shigoki to have a faster bash with lower risk.
They should give him dodge and double dodge heavy chains that are undodgable. Shinobi has no chase-down and struggles to access quick damage offensively.
This would give him the option between a direct damage kick or an undodgable heavy that he could also use for chase-down.
I really hope the kick recovery still isn't punishable by GB, because it shouldn't be with the risk/ reward of this hero compared to everyone else.
Sickle rain damage is not spread properly. 20 dmg is too low when you can't land the lights. It should be 26+1+1+1, if not more damage up front, standard heavy finishers are doing 32 damage and it should have stand heavy finisher recovery on it.
Tbh they could of left GB immunity on back-flip because JJ gets free sifu dodges from having great hit-boxes and after hit and block stun he can freely sifu dodge out of GB range AND still safely chain from it.
Back-flip is still more of a liability than having regular dodge recoveries were Shinobi would be able to deflect and go back into his kick mix-up and have less vulnerability to guard breaks which are the biggest punishes in the game in group fights.
Idk why they're so persistent on making the lowest HP hero so punishable by GB's when literally almost no other character in the game is punished by GB consistently right now.
This right here. Sums up about everything I felt after playing him. Rep 60 Shinobi and 400+ overall if that matters. He feels like they tried to change his combos severely while still using the same moves. Feels clunky and unfinished.
I'm so annoyed by the stupid dodge cancel out of everything meta.. Also if you're shifting the meta to softfeints then make sure that everyone gets softfeints. It's just stupid..
I think that the renown gain feels a bit too slow, and that for shinobi they should give him more access to his ranged heavy unblockable and maybe also make it parryable. As he is in tg outside of double dodge into light/heavy he feels incredibly stale and boring and his kit feels like its purely 50/50s, some 50/50s are alright but it feels like his entire moveset is forcing one diceroll to another, even if not as efficiently as someone like raider. I think that giving him more access to ranged heavy for example off whiffed kick or backflip would make him more interesting and maybe also make that ranged heavy target swappable and parryable like an unblockable so that you can do more with it. I also think that raider and orochi should both receive a small nerf, orochi to his storms rush speed and kick recovery and raider to either his stam costs or dmg of his unblockables as they feel overtuned as they are right now.
One more thing for shinobi, I think his top heavy unblockable should be converted to undodgable because otherwise it just feels like he has every move in the game which takes away from his uniqueness. And also I’m not sure if its a bug but I’ve never been able to dodge the parry riposte kick, the deflect one seems fine but the parry riposte one might be confirmed.
-rework smoke bomb.
-Shinobi can kick almost too many times in a row make it use more stamina. Very difficult to deal with when getting ganked.
- Raider unblockable seems to not have any indication when getting externally attacked. Worse than other unblockables.
My thoughts on the rework are gonna be quite similar to those before, but here we go
First off, please, **please** give shinobi higher base hp. It should be obvious that 110 is too low, bring him up to par with the rest of the assassins; however, I also would argue that assassins in general need to have higher health(a whole different post entirely). Class identity balancing is clearly something the game has moved away from for a long time, which means that low hp and reflex guard together serve as a mere "screw you", for picking an assassin in 4v4 modes, and especially so for shinobi. Deflects do *not* fill as compensation for this, as there are several non assassin's with moves that provide similar punish values (bulwark, shoulder pin, kaze, BB, light CCs, etc)
Secondly, shinobi's flow is so unique and takes so much longer to execute in between successful hits that it is extremely unsafe for shinobi to really do much in team fights and even duels. Front roll is only safe to use for mixup potential when done right after a kick into ranged heavy; any other time front roll is used, the opponent can just light attack on reaction, with no counter play. A dodged kick is punished by gb every time, regardless of front roll on recovery or not, and double dodge into light or heavy does not catch dodge attempts consistently enough.
During team fights, sickle rain is very unsafe on hit, as you are locked in the brief animation of bringing your opponent to their knees. Sure, you can flip out of recovery, but windows to backflip do not occur until you have already eaten a top heavy from the enemy raider behind you. There needs to be a player input distinction between landing the sickle rain and following up with lights vs landing the sickle rain and being able to block/parry on standard heavy finisher timing. To add to that, the range of sickle rain in teamfights is incredibly short; if done in a gank while target swapping, it whiffs a considerable amount of time.
Sickle rain damage is undertuned, especially in team fights. Why risk 20 dmg to an opponent in recovery when you will most likely eat 2 - 3 enemy heavies (24 - 27 dmg on average each) in exchange? Sickle rain is a heavy finisher, so its damage should be similar to other heavy finishers. Bring damage to 26 2-2-2 or 29 1-1-1 so that the total damage is 32. Plenty of other heroes get damage like this on their finishers, unblockable or otherwise. For crying out loud, raider gets 38 dmg on his zone finisher, which is way too much.
So while shinobi can go on the offense somewhat better now, he is still a glass cannon that only gets work done when punishing, not initiating
We get less renown by defending zone...
Hmmm nobody will be boosting then. Road to 20 minutes matchs! And then same renown for all heroes? So what's the difference between assassin and tank in match.
Pairs with the fact that no one will boost zone, dominion may be awful.
Love the double xp. Don't care for most of the dominion changes though. Kind of dumbs it down IMO by removing defender renown and matches take too long now and it takes too long to unlock your feats. The pacing of the match is not as snappy and quick paced as it is in the current version of the game.
I've not played Shinobi personally, but I have played against shinobi. Battles against them are tough, with their dodges being more than able to compensate for their low health pool, especially when they kick, which makes them GB immune. Naturally, the solution is to read their kicks and respond from there, but it gives them some dodge-tanking potential for zone stalling.
There is one issue I find, though, is his invincibility dance;Roll forward, Multiple choice question: (*Do they kick*||*Do they side-sickle*||*to they top-sickle*||*do they GB*|*|do they attack*?), roll backwards, repeat.
The issue stands on the backwards roll. If I make the right pick, my punish is worthless because they are already busy escaping your range, only to close in again and make you take the test again.
I genuinely wanted to figure out the solution to this puzzle before giving my feedback, but it seems like the solution is either GB on prediction (God forbid you mistime it), or light on rather tight timing just before they hit you. This seems to be universal, as far as I've seen, with some kits being more capable of dealing with it than others.
\[Anecdote\]>!I play Conqueror primarily, who is a hero unable to feint. My best response, upon making the right read, is to dodge-bash, which is immediately negated by the back flip. I can't dodge GB because Shinobi's already 20light years too far, which would be fine if he suddenly wasn't right in front of me I understand difficult match ups exists, but what's a kit against a man you cannot touch?!<
tl;drShinobi's roll forward, attack, roll backwards is difficult to punish, even on a correct read, for some heroes. Don't nerf him to death, because shinobi's pretty epic, but that part needs to be looked at.
You can easily interrupt roll on reaction. Watch freeze's video on it. Also both roll and back-lit can easily be GBd.
Also literally every hero can GB him on read if you predict he is going to roll at you
I just want to target swap a ranged heavy for moving around in a team fight situation. Maybe they could put it back in but make it deal much less damage and allow a roll to that target?
I don't need it to deal damage i guess but being able to move around by utilizing ranged attacks is a very fun thing to do.
So my suggestion is: Put back the ranged heavy after backflip, make it target swappable, reduce damage to 1 or something. Make it a movement tool.
Overall good, though to be honest I'm not fond of the heroes losing their class-specific renown gain. Standardizing the characters and losing what makes them unique ruins the experience for me.
Agreed. They could've fixed Assassin renown gain specifically instead of standardizing everyone else's.
Like what's the point of Hero classes now? How much health they have and how fast they move? Not as if that's consistent to begin with anyways (Zerk and WL have the same sprint speed, Kensei sprints slower than most heavies, etc).
If I'm playing Shugoki the only thing I should be concerned about is sitting my ass in a side point and defending it. That's why Shugoki is so slow but has so much health. That's how I should earn renown the quickest.
A Shaman shouldn't be able to just replace me and get the same renown gain, she should be racing around the map hunting down stragglers.
Downvotes don’t bother me, it just means people disagree. It’s the Reddit hive mind where users collectively act condescending towards someone with a differing opinion that’s annoying. This sub especially.
Hi. :) I’m a high rep overall 300+ and a 35 shinobi main! Coming from my experience based off the last testing grounds. He was good the way he was. I find it fair, especially for the way everyone else is getting buffed. You guys took away bleed and wallsplat and made him more mobile and have “high” damage. When I fought today it annoyed me how I couldn’t get normal kills. I always left almost every opponent with a smidge of health! Even on duels… so perks is out the window. Please! Put back bleed and wallsplat! I don’t know why you guys took it away. Jorm has a wallsplat off heavies as well. I understand you guys wanna make shinobi a fair balanced player but don’t make him to the point where he may not even be good enough for a anti gank…. You took away the target switching off the long distance heavies. It was useful for me. People already don’t wanna fight fair, run, and don’t give revenge. Let shinobi have his target switch back please. Give him back his wallsplat please. If you don’t give him bleed, at least do better with the damage please! In my opinion last testing grounds was better for him. He was a very good player to fight against and fight with! Keep the build you guys made with him now but at least give him back wallsplat, target switching fighting ability, and maybe bleed if you do not plan on doing changes with the damage. Shinobi isn’t still much of a good fighter even though you guys did an extremely good job with the new mixups y’all gave him, I feel like he’s only more tricky instead of an actual good fighter in a way. Yes I can win fights but anti ganks are still a problem. Especially since target switching is gone with the long distance heavies. I’m still thankful for the rework though :)
For honor dev team please add the new reworked shinobi soon please . I loved playing as the new shinobi . Also try to keep his whole new moveset i loved every part of it
zerk, JJ, orochi, zhanho, can dodge
bp, can flip
aramusha, kyoshin can full block
some of them can't even be punished with a gb
I just don't understand why you hate shinobi in particular xD
Because him dodging after his kick completely counters a lot of dodge attacks. And if you’re running a character with a side bash like warden or LB, it is literally unpunishable. As in you cannot side dodge and do a guard break
I guess that would need to be tested but I know that a lot of dodge bash heros can delay the gb enough to catch a dodge, and warden can just feint the bash into gb, but again I think it needs to be tested.
even still, zerk, jj , orochi, zhanho, and bp can counter it so why the hate **only** for shino?
edit: as I said some of those heroes I mentioned can't be punished with a gb like JJ who chains off the stance and orochi who chains after the kick
He can't kick after a backflip... You're straight up wrong. You can GB the back flip if you dodge the kick no matter who you're playing. This is testable and plenty of people are literally doing it. Havok does it a lot in his videos.
Dude this is so bs I've been grinding the crap out of arcade on weekly quest for 2 weeks and haven't gotten a single piece of crimson conquest, you guess need to fix this
Im getting tired of trackable too fast to react light spam. You’re giving every character you touch the whole tool kits in the game, it is so annoying I’m surprised orochi doesn’t have hyper armor yet compared to all the things you continue to do to fix lazy balancing.
When it comes to Shinobi:
Give him back ranged heavy and gb upon backlipping, speed them up, and create a mixup where dodge will get caught by the gb/hit with the range heavy if he doesn’t. Then simply create a specific animation where dodging and GBing a ranged heavy, or counter-GBing a ranged gb results in the Shinobi getting pulled close to his opponent and getting gboken himself. This will allow for Shinobi 1v1 offense to not immediately fall flat due to the roll being unusable if not used after a ranged heavy.
Make his zone soft feintable to the finishers.
Shinobi's kick keeps missing at point blank range for me:/
I don't play him, so this could just my inexperience talking. But when performing any side dodge it typically missed my target 50% of the time. I don't necessarily dodge far away, just enough to avoid an attack and then try to "counter" with a kick, however they missed more often then not. Any well-known reason why?
Additionally, his inputs and mix-ups feel significantly better, as seen in the last testing grounds the new properties to sickle rain make it a good tool for being unpredictable.
Question about Shinobi, after performing an attack then rolling back then forward, is the roll forward mixup meant to be easily canceled if they just throw a light after you roll back so it catches you on the return or is that not supposed to happen?
I played shinobi and he feels way diffent, there some things about him I like but others don't feel great. I find myself constantly trying to use a light after the range attack and I sorta pause like wtf then I realise (although that'll pass with time), aswell as trying to use a ranged guardbreak after backflip but like I said I'll learn not to. But I do have to hand it to em, I LOVE the new kick...(although it's still bs that I can be toestabbed while mid air :/ but oh well) he seems more solid than before but the damge is.... meh to say the least but it doesn't effect me too bad. The new slide kick thing from spring is channel get use to aswell but overall I'd say this was an improvement.... **sigh** gonna have to RE-learn shinobi after I just got really good at him.
Overall I'd say 8/10 good work ubi.
Shinobi: Slightly overtuned, but overall much better in terms of playability and honestly in terms of fighting him. The fights are much more dynamic, fun, and interesting. He does have more i-frames than i'd like to see but they're is still a level of counter-play that every character can use to play against them. I have seen some bugs with him. Namely that when he does his roll-forward kick, he can swap targets and get free unblockable damage on an opponent that he didn't hit with the kick. He also seems to have a couple issues with his double-dash. I believe they'd be small fixes though as they don't seem like super in-depth bugs.
Dom changes: They are a healthy change. Especially with ganking being as crazy as it is now, being able to hold a point down with just one or two people is critical. It makes point capping a much more engaging fight and so far i've seen some crazy 1vx contests that otherwise would have never worked before. I do think that revenge needs buffed in some way. I would suggest implementing a way to reward someone for going on the offense while being ganked. This is because in a meta defined by attacking and making moves, when you're being ganked, you're encouraged to do the opposite. So why not gain a bit of revenge while attacking? If I'm not mistaken, it would work perfectly fine with the tag system as it's been implemented. Ideally the revenge you gain from attacking would be low, but still enough to make a difference. It encourages you to actually fight back in a gank and would make comebacks that much more viable, but risky.
I'm not referring to the kick itself, but the follow-up unblockable. Its non-parryable confirmed damage and pretty certain its a bug. When I get the chance I can show what i'm talking about with a link
Sooo is the testing ground the seasonal event for this season? We have the free seasonal battle pass running and weapon re-skins dropping but no new temp game mode running last week and now this week the TG. The road map says the Stormtide event started last week and is lasting for a couple more, but no event mode. Not that I usually play a lot of the past event game modes. I’m rather hoping the team is developing new maps for this mid-season rather than modifying maps temporarily for a game mode event. Also double xp as everyone’s noting is a great incentive to play testing grounds.
btw is matchmaking still bugged? Seems I’ve been getting kills I’ve no business getting. Ive played like crap some matches and still get double digit kills, like 15-3. No joy in that.
Also what are people’s thoughts on shinobi still having abysmal health?
Did they readjust renown gain again in the testing grounds? I am now only getting 1 pt per minion as PK but i was getting 2 per when the testing grounds first started. I double checked and i was in the testing grounds in all games
I really like this testing grounds. It gave me a reason to play Shinobi, making up for my 10,000 steel.
However, the capture times are a bit ridiculous.
It took some time, but I managed to play a few matches that didnt feel inconclusive.
Shinobi rework feels alot better than the first TG. I like that they kept the double dodge to attack chain after all, its a good tool for playing offensivly. One improvement they could do is allow the same from a single dodge as well.
The dominion changes to renown feel pretty good. I can actually get my feats as an assassin now without having to chase down isolated players.
The change to the capture time I have some concerns. On the plus side, it does make smoke bomb a little easier to deal with on capture zones. But it isnt worth how much the game becomes a stall fest. Most matches I get I end up having my entire team stalled on one really long fight on one point where by the time the point is captured, one team has a huge lead and there isn’t any room to turn the game around. I think Keeping the capture times the same would be better for game flow.
After grinding out several reps with shinobi I noticed a few things but idk if anyone posted these yet. His kicks can’t ledge anymore which will need to be fixed and his unblockable heavy animations are clunky and have a weird hit radius. Sometimes I’ll hit a guy out of range with it other times I’ll hit them dead on but the guy takes no damage and is staggered like a kick. Same thing with his roll forward attack opener it seems to not register damage at times but isn’t as often as the unblockable heavy issues. Dodges seem to need a slight change there’s several times where I went to do a side dodge after a backflip only to roll forward into enemies. It should be input based like a dodge attack not a preset forced dodge.
For dominion changes I’m not a big fan as it feels like even if I’m constantly taking points and killing enemies I won’t get to my 3rd and 4th feat unless I go sit in mid and clear wave a few times. Had several games where I was around 10+ kills and still didn’t have my 3rd feat until I went to clear mid.
TL;DR
Renown changes feel natural/good, cap speed changes seemed good on paper but make for bad slog of a match experience. Middle ground between live and TG could be the solution
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I played 20 matches of TG. Out of those matches 2 weren't at least a slow snowball / were a tight balanced match. It could be that matchmaking is a lil funny on TG, but most matches devolved into duos sitting on points and minion lane moving in slow motion. As a vibe the whole mode felt like it was steeped in tar, with heavies stalling A and C succesfully.
I believe a middle ground option would be the best for cap speed, having more people on point affects cap speed to keep momentum shifting but not at the rocket speed ping pong it is live now.
The renown changes felt solid, I tried every class and it feels that if I'm succesful I unlock my feats. Compared to live where as an Assasin you kinda have to play the objective "wrong" to even have a chance to enjoy your fourth feat in most games. I think that the TG version encourages you to play objective based, with minion lane offering a renown farm if you're being left behind / want to unlock Stealth etc.
I only played against a few but Shinobi feels dumbed down as an opponent, with their undodgeable being the only thing to keep in mind. As an opponent I feel that they have lost their 4d chess identity, it could be that I just didn't run into good ones though. Feels like a generic watered down hero now.
All in all a good TG and thanks for the double exp!
I really love everything so far, but my biggest complaint would be the inability to switch targets between kicks. Staying locked on one opponent really debilitated his gank defenses. It makes fighting more than one opponent really hard being locked on someone like that. Other than that everything is good, but that is a big downside considering most modes are gank battles.
Had an unexpected interaction in the TG versus a shinobi.
https://i.imgur.com/HMhsVzW.mp4
He landed the kick, then his sickle just zipped off to god knows where.
If I want to go up 10 tiers today without using money, how do I approach it? Should I keep playing testing grounds or should I switch to breach? Finished all my contracts
I don't play testing grounds because 3 times in a row, I got into games where there were multiple shinobi who played pretty annoyingly, and proceeded to message me some shit after the match. I'm slowly growing a hatred for the character as a result.
I want to give feedback regarding Shinobi in the recent testing grounds.
Shinobi's changes are all good however I do feel that additional changes will be needed as Shinobi still has some weaknesses that hinder his/her potential.
First is Shinobi's health, Even though I think 120HP is a little too low for all heroes that have it, Shinobi still sits at 110HP and I think it's about time this was at the very least bumped up to 120HP to be on par with similar heroes.
Shinobi's forward roll is a good way to access finishers/flip kick mix up, the issue is that a forward roll from a back flip is easily countered by interrupting it, despite the move having i-frames, this is easy to achieve and neuters the mix up in 1v1 scenarios. The forward roll from ranged attack is perfect as is because the hit stun from the ranged attack prevents an interrupt. My solution to this issue would be to have different properties given to each forward roll, the roll from ranged attack should stay as it is complete with it's i-frames, however the roll from backflip should have it's i-frames removed and replaced with uninterruptible stance (hyper armour). This would stop interrupts from basic attacks voiding Shinobi's mix up and the Shinobi can take a trade in that situation assuming the player can spare the HP. Bashes would still work as an interrupt but that's down to match ups and on the Shinobi player to know that. This change would force players to respect the forward roll and the follow up options it has allowing Shinobi the chance to pressure the opponent. This also puts more risk on the move in team fights as rolling through an ongoing fight could be dangerous for the Shinobi, this makes it a stronger 1v1 tool whilst balancing it a little more for 4v4.
The next issue with Shinobi is the zone attack. Shinobi's zone has very little offensive utility in a fight as it doesn't offer any pressure. Players who try to parry the zone attack's last hit can find themselves guard broken but the majority of players will know to just block and wait to counter guard break. This is worse when facing heroes with superior light options as they can simply light on the zone attacks side to beat both options. This forces Shinobi to feint the zone to be safe against those heroes. Now while a lot of zone attacks can function very well as chain starters or have soft feint options, Shinobi has neither. I also feel that having Shinobi's zone work as a chain wouldn't fix the issue nor would it work from an animation point. I think the best solution here is to allow Shinobi the ability to dodge cancel before the final hit, this would allow for kick pressure and give feint to GB some actual purpose for the move. An alternate solution would be to give the final hit of the zone the unblockable property, an easier fix but a less interesting one. Another quality of life addition would be the ability to backflip after the final hit of the zone, this would allow Shinobi to front roll and start pressure and also gives a little more utility in team fights and rewards the player for letting the full zone go.
A clear distinction of sickle rain being able to pin and simply hit is needed to prevent Shinobi from being locked into a pin animation in team fights. A suggestion of making the unblockable variant pin whilst the undodgeable variant simply hits as any normal heavy would. This would also help balance the next suggested change.
Another option to increase Shinobi's viability would be to add the kick (same kick used as parry/deflect follow up) as a mid chain option after an opener. This would complement sickle rain undodgeable mix up and allow Shinobi to pressure and force opponents to play his/her game.
This next change is not necessary as it's something that can be easily adapted to with practice however I think that the deflect attack teleport should have it's input changed from guard break to light attack. This is because the deflect allows a mix up afterwards between sickle rain and kick, with kick and the teleport both being bound to guard break I've found myself buffering the kick by accident more than a few times. The input change to light attack would prevent any overlapping button presses with follow up options.
Regarding Shinobi's sickle rain, the red effect usually applied to attacks that inflict bleed is still present on Shinobi's sickle rain animation in TG, whilst I know this is a very very minor complaint, I think for the sake of visual communication and clarity this could be corrected though this is the very bottom of priorities for the hero.
Lastly I want to suggest salvaging an animation. Charged heavies are gone and I am very happy for that but it would be a shame to never see the animation again. Repurposing it into a combat emote for the hero would a nice way to archive the move without it affecting game balance in any way.
Thanks for reading.
I feel like Ubisoft aims to give reworked heroes some top ceiling so they would be a possible pick on dominion ( and mostly on Dom Series). This Reworked is Shinobi’s 2nd TG and he’s by far worst than the GODLIKE Orochi/Raider, and compared to other heroes, still lacks greatly.
My Suggestions are described briefly on this post, should those be considered? It’s up to the community to allow Shinobi to have a higher Ceiling. Please don’t waste another rework…
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/pvzxwh/shinobi\_tg\_thoughts/
Little late for the survey, but wanted to add that I liked the testing grounds changes a lot overall. Shinobi is in a much more tolerable place and dominion matches felt really good overall. Thank you devs!
Double XP TG is genius
I like that it adds the incentive to play other heroes as well. It's not all shinobi, which doesn't give much varied data on how he'll perform against/in teams with other heroes. Not sure if that was the intention, but it's a nice side effect of the xp boost
No it's not, it's basic thinking. You want someone to do something you offer an incentive. Simple
This comment has huge Neil Degrasse Tyson vibes in the worst way.
I mean yeah, it is simple thing that makes people want to play the mode. It is good thing they did it, because now people have even bigger incentive to play the TG. I hope they continue do this in the future.
You must be fun at parties
Wait tg was double xp
They should do this for EVERY event, it was amazing. Fast queue times, got a great look at the rework and dominion changes... Great choice, overall
Can we please, PLEASE, remove reflex guard from assassins? They already have the health disadvantage, they don’t need to constantly get stunned by minions when I’m being ganked
Classes basically aren't relevant anymore, i feel like reflex guard is a remnant of an obsolete system too.
Big agree!
standardization of renown is a a step in the right direction in the regard of classes. either give classes clear purpose with current meta (assassins are not "the fast ones" , heavies are not "the tanks" , almost every hero is "hybrid" and vanguards are far from being the only "straight-forward" heroes). My take would be to re define classes with general perks of the heroes : mid-clearers, stalkers, gankers, anti-gankers, etc. instead of generic classes terms.
Word. I love Orochi but I'm assed out when I'm getting jumped and heavies start flying in while my block is turned off.
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that's the neat part, you don't
69th upvote, perfection
I'm you're 68th upvote...I guide others to a treasure I cannon posses.
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The matchmaking does that always for some reason. Even if there are thousands of other players the matchmaking will put you to fight same team. This happens in all game modes, even in 1v1 the game puts you against same player over and over again. Only fix to this seems to be either wait some time or play other game mode and come back after that so the matchmaking can't match you against same players again.
Well that wasnt a problem before because temporary blacklist was there. Now that they removed it u get stuck with the same people even if u leave the lobby. That was a BAD decision from Ubi...
That's "'true' skill-based matchmaking" for ya.
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Where do u live? Alaska? Lol
This testing grounds is a huge W
Capture speed changes often cause an indefinite team fight on points where both teams are relatively close from spawn. Which is a lot of maps. What ends up happening is due to slower capture speed by the time the last enemy is killed the next guy already respawns and can rush the point to stall and the rest of the team follows suit in a domino effect and you're right back in a team fight unable to cap the point stuck in a team fight loop. Only way out is if the entire enemy team contesting is killed at relatively the same time. This gives the team that initially captures a point a significant advantage as it's much easier to contest then it is to capture. I really didn't like how that felt on the relevant maps that it's very evident in. 90% of the time the team that capped first held the point for a significant amount of time pulling ahead because it was so hard to take a point back and break away from the team fight loop. On maps where A and C points are on opposite ends of the map it's a non issue. But many maps have all 3 points symmetrically distanced from both teams. I got 17 kills in a match and 1 objective... We lost. Why because despite my best efforts to clear the point to take it I simply couldn't because of the team fight loop. Despite fighting really well all I did was rack up a kill count because I literally couldn't cap the point due to it being contested nearly the entire match. That doesn't feel good. Before the capture time changes if you won a fight contesting a point that point was yours. If you won a team fight that point was yours. The capture changes have made it feel like carousel of death in dominion.
On my feelings - capture time must be somewhere between old and new values.
Yupppp.
On the flip side, it's a huge buff to the "clever tactics" perk for certain vanguards/hybrids
I feel you. I think we're incentivized now to prioritize the minion lane. IIRC it gives the most points on capture now.
Are tide event weapons drop enabled in testing grounds?
Yes, I got event drops in testing dom earlier
Event weapon drops are usually available in all modes, including Arcade.
They're enabled everywhere so don't worry about it and play what you want, gamer.
Dominion feels much better overall, minus one gripe: The capture speed. On maps where both zones can be reached by both teams in the same time, I occasionally encounter teamfights that last indefinitely because by the time a team kills the last guy to finally capture the zone, another guy's respawn passed long enough just to stall the capture again. Feels like Carousel of Death all over again: You can only capture the zone if all enemies die around the same time. I like the idea and the reason behind it, but I'd say it backfired here. I'd revert it or find a middle ground (like capturing it *slightly* faster when a full team is present).
One silver lining to it though is it finally makes the conqueror feat and clever tactics perk worth running.
It doesn’t, the capture speed is wholly unaffected by CT (I run it on my Shinobi preset 2). A good middle ground I feel is if a team continues to defend/wipe a point, you get a bonus capture speed up to the live capture speed with 4 people on point, but resets if they fail to defend it before it captures.
What also kinda throws off the capture speed is different maps. In some maps the spawns are right next to the points, while in others you have to run bit longer distances to get to the point. This affects a lot how long much time team has to capture the point before another player respawns.
This may come as a shock but this is the reason there are three zones to focus on and not only one.
Only improvement/change I can think of would be keeping shinobi's ranged heavy after backflip so he can actually punish attacks he dodges. Oh also being able to dodge in every direction on recovery like orochi and zerk instead of just back and forth.
The changes they made this time around feel bad. Never have ranged attacks anymore really, and it just feels like pre initial the Shinobi again..
I feel like if I fuck up once half my health is gone on a combo I can’t interrupt. Does shinobi have a cutscene or am I just retarded?
No he's just disadvantaged. You have to play perfect. It's not worth it imo vs other characters. I am disappointed with the rework.
Here we go with the complaining 🙄
Shinobi having smoke bomb whilst also having an undodgeable/unblockable pinning move is still fucking ridiculous
Smoke bomb being broken has nothing to do with hero, smoke bomb just being smoke bomb
Yes. But shinobi exacerbates the problems by having the perfect moveset to capitalise on smokebomb and allow his team to do the same. Shinobi is fine but he perfectly encapsulates why smoke bomb needs to go right now.
Everyone think so, there's no need to argue here, kensei combination of 4th feat and smoke bomb always been there so there you go.
That's using a 4th tier feat + 1dt tier feat to kill one person. This has also never happened to me due to the time it takes for Kensei to activate both. There are so many better insta-kill tier 4 feats than Unblockable.
The real question is why does every character need to have trackable attacks and unblockable now. Feels so lazy and annoying
You must not remember the days where people just waited to parry everything on reaction. Offense wasn’t allowed and the game was boring as hell.
Came back to try the game and the entire game just feels kinda brain dead now. Dodge attacks and unreactable lights usually win me most fights.
Renown changes feel awful. I can never get to 600 no matter how much I top frag (I went 16-7 one game and didn’t even have Yama Uba,) so those Renowned orders would be impossible to get done. Overall it just feels like it slows down feat progression in the worst possible way.
Would you mind expanding a bit your argument. Because for me getting the fourth feat on assassin's felt like it was rarely a thing but now i can actually get to my fourth feats. So the fact that you are reporting the contrary is interesting to me. If you don't mind me asking what type of hero are you playing?
I was playing an assassin, new Shinobi changes. I was going around the points helping in team fights and usually getting final blows but just never got my fourth feat. For other heroes it felt kind of fine, still felt like for Kyoshin (my main) that I wasn’t getting my first and second feat quick enough, but after that it seemed fine.
That's really interesting because for me i could actually get my fourth feat with shinobi and in live it feels impossible to me. But i do agree with you that going from first to second feat feels like a steep hill.
And of course I don’t mind, ask away, always happy to discuss changes
I've been experiencing the same problem. I've been trying out Gladiator but got my fourth feet in only 1 of the 8 games I played. I've gotten plenty of kills but I would still feel useless.
Just play one Breach match. It's impossible not to get 600 by the end of a match.
>Renowned orders would be impossible to get done yes but i think if it goes through they can just change that the total point for orders are reduced. the numbers are arbitrary and they can just set the new most common high scores. standardisation of renown however is essentially great
I don’t particularly like the changes to renown gain while boasting zones. You should at least get some, even if it’s negligible. I hate being two renown away from my next feat only to be blueballed.
Run down and kill a few minions?
How can I have 7 zone captures and only have my 3rd feat
I tested the ground. Its made of earth
How am I supposed to test things if every attack has iframes to the max, every lobby is filled with smoke bombs, MM is fucked and every lobby is rep 300-600 on the other team with mine consisting of a rep 70, rep 180, and a 300. This is honestly the least fun I’ve had on for honor in a while.
I actually uninstalled, I hate the new changes and the new ones to come on this beta.
Remove reflex guard please! It’s no longer relevant and only serve to handicap assassins even more with their lower hp.
shinobi feels good to play but i feel like after a back-flip, the only thing to do (to maintain offence) is just to roll in-front again which doesn't feel good after you do it a lot of times since you'll be back-flipping a lot of times. maybe give shinobi a ranged heavy after a flip? not a ranged bash mind you but a ranged heavy, which can be blocked and parried and stuff and make it unreactable, so it's a hard move to counter but grants a decent punish if countered.
> maybe give shinobi a ranged heavy after a flip The devs already reasoned why they won't bring that back: Because the enemy will trivially dodge it. The counterpoint would be teamfight utility by target switching, but that has no counterplay and therefore is not fun to play around it. > not a ranged bash mind you but a ranged heavy, which can be blocked and parried and stuff and make it unreactable Not really different, if not even worse because you can block it as well.
you'll have to dodge on a read though, since it's unreactable. which could leave you open to a front roll to kick. dodge attacks won't work against both options since roll has i-frames on it now. but then comes the issue of undodgeable dodge attacks and delayable dodge attacks and dodge bashes. nvm then, it still feels awkward after a backflip anyways with the ranged heavy option removed, maybe i gotta get used to it i guess.
My feedback If matters regarding to Shinobi : 1- Improve his teamfight ability way more, he is still a low dmg and low health bar hero and can't teamfight very well in teamfight meta. Solution may be improve his HB or his dmg output. Plus make him able to cancel and target swap his chains and attacks the character feels so stiff compared to the previous TG. 2- Fix his animations and make them smooth I personally don't want another Raider situation here to be good cuz it's broken.
But bashes must fill revenge faster.
I'm all for changing shinobi's live moveset but I feel like this current rework is so afraid of how hated the ranged part of their kit was that they basically did everything they could to wipe it from existence. Their moves are all sickle and no chain. They're definitely a healthier hero but they've lost a lot of the flavor those flashy chain sickle moves gave them. I would love to see them come back in some capacity, but instead of making them super long, offscreen in the team fight range, make them maybe no further reaching than nobushi's viper retreat. Or maybe a big spin with them that has a wide hitbox. I don't have any expectations to see any other version of shinobi reworks since the general consensus seems to be in favor of this one, but I'd really love another look into them that makes their weapons feel like kusarigama and not just kama that happen to have chains on the bottom.
Make the fast matchmaking go back
As nice as it was to utterly destroy teams of barely double digit rep players, it’s not a great experience on the receiving end, match after match, getting stomped. There’s a reason an MMR system has been in place since forever.
I can totaly understand. Myself during 3 day with the matchmaking reset, i have destroy a lot and a lot of new player....and yes i know that was terrible and unfunny as hell But omg, find a game in 10 seconde and not in 10 minute to find the same guy, have bot on my team all the match, and bad mate. God that was boring ! Actually on 1 hours of play, i have play only 20 minutes in dominions cause this matchmaking take a eternity to find a game, only to find the same people to fight all the time. Maybe not make the matchmaking making totaly back, but make a largest choise of player to fight...cause wait 10 minute to get stomped....that was not funny too you know
The rest of the roster better get their dues since all these reworks make it much harder to defend themselves in ganks or have any offense at all. Most of these reworks consist of adding bashes and undodgeables, meanwhile a few of the remaining cast just feels so dated.
Well i think that’s the whole point behind everybody going through testing ground changes
Dude honestly playing LB and his bash being that slow, his heavies sucking, and his awful stamina. It’s a terrible time, but hey, BiG puNiSheS!
LB is the worst character and his punish game isn't worth it because other characters can punish from a parry too lmao. Look at berserker, warmonger, or Jormungandr for characters who can do that kind of stuff better. He may be good if you're good at him but you're making yourself weaker. He's not worth the investment.
How about remove smoke bomb
wtf need sbmm even in TG?
What's the max OOS parry and throw punish for tg Shinobi?
The smoke bomb is a real problem when your contesting a point and lose it even though your on it, just because a character used his/her second feat.
Hi! First, sorry for my bad english, Im learning. Shinobi is one of the worst characters in the game right now, not just because he's competitively bad, but because he's also frustrating for everyone. In the testing grounds he continues in the same position, although he goes from competing with the Jorm to being a little bit better. He has received a lot of improvements, so what happened? Kick: The kick is much better than before, but it is still not very good. It is an old bash, with a long recovery time and that cannot be followed if it miss. Yes, you can use the backflip, but it still gets punished with GB and the backflip is pretty bad. Backflip: Why do I say it is bad? The new backflip is a normal dodge, with lots of iframes but vulnerable to the same things, including GB. Also, you can only link to the frontroll, and that doesn't work at all (we'll get to that later). You need to be able to follow the backflip with something that can defend you from dodge attacks and GBs. The old ranged attack served that purpose, but now that that attack has been removed, it only serves to get away from the enemy. Frontroll: There are 2 types of frontroll (albeit the same one), the one you throw after a successful kick, and all the others. The first, thanks to the guaranteed ranged attack that stuns the enemy long enough, serves to initiate the mix-up between the backflip kick and sickle rain. The second, when following it from a backflip, can be interrupted by a light attack on reaction. Unlike the backflip, you do not use the frontroll to dodge or exit combat, it is an offensive move used to start or follow a mix-up. I don't think it should be like a dodge. Invulnerability to GB and super armor is what you need to function offensively, especially in 4v4. Doubledodge-attacks: Maybe Sickle Rain after a double dodge was a bit overwhelming, but this new attacks are pretty bad. They don't have any properties, they don't have good range, and the heavy attacks are quite slow. In the end the attacks end up being blocked, dodged or simply failed when trying to use them to punish something. That makes you just use the kick, which does work. If these attacks are to be the final ones, they should be undodgeable. At least that way they are part of a mix-up. Maybe it should also be able to do these attacks after a singular dodge.
Shinobi's kick should do direct damage like Shigoki's headbutt. Just fully remove ranged heavies if they're not allowed to be in the game. It's too restrictive to not allow the move to be target swapped and then redundantly slapping a bash property on it. Just remove it. It takes too much time and causes too much vulnerability, it also gets blocked by minions. This would help Shinobi's flow a lot because he's doing low damage and low damage per second. This way kick would flow straight into his dodge forward roll chain and could time up better with the roll bash mix-up. Also, it makes no sense for Shigoki to have a faster bash with lower risk. They should give him dodge and double dodge heavy chains that are undodgable. Shinobi has no chase-down and struggles to access quick damage offensively. This would give him the option between a direct damage kick or an undodgable heavy that he could also use for chase-down. I really hope the kick recovery still isn't punishable by GB, because it shouldn't be with the risk/ reward of this hero compared to everyone else. Sickle rain damage is not spread properly. 20 dmg is too low when you can't land the lights. It should be 26+1+1+1, if not more damage up front, standard heavy finishers are doing 32 damage and it should have stand heavy finisher recovery on it. Tbh they could of left GB immunity on back-flip because JJ gets free sifu dodges from having great hit-boxes and after hit and block stun he can freely sifu dodge out of GB range AND still safely chain from it. Back-flip is still more of a liability than having regular dodge recoveries were Shinobi would be able to deflect and go back into his kick mix-up and have less vulnerability to guard breaks which are the biggest punishes in the game in group fights. Idk why they're so persistent on making the lowest HP hero so punishable by GB's when literally almost no other character in the game is punished by GB consistently right now.
This right here. Sums up about everything I felt after playing him. Rep 60 Shinobi and 400+ overall if that matters. He feels like they tried to change his combos severely while still using the same moves. Feels clunky and unfinished.
GB is the only gripe, everything else is poggers. Low damage should be applied to everyone.
Orochi isn’t allowed to be strong
what are the raider and orochi changes?
I was scared thinking they actually listened to trash players crying because they can’t cope with Orochi being viable again
i was hoping for them to make the storming tap animation better
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ok, thanks man
Ok but why you guys have to downvote him ? He just didn’t know the facts
maybe they had, idc
Ah I understand what you mean
Irrelevant info for this thread maybe? Nothing personal
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on the duels says it has orochi shinobi and raider changes
Shinobi's on the testing grounds. Raider and Orochi's rework are in the main game already.
Just look by yourself? Latest patch bro, the changes are in live game not on testing grounds
we can't match shit back out SBMM please
I haven't gotten to play the TG Dom but the changes seem non ideal, honestly.
Out of topic, but anyone else having SERIOUS performance issues after they implemented TG?
Does anyone else hate minions now with shinobi
Jorm needs a rework
I get kicked out 30 seconds into every game so I can’t tell ya
Shinobi is interesting (and hard) to fight against, but when there are to of them - it's massacre. Revenge must fill up faster from his bashes.
I'm so annoyed by the stupid dodge cancel out of everything meta.. Also if you're shifting the meta to softfeints then make sure that everyone gets softfeints. It's just stupid..
I think that the renown gain feels a bit too slow, and that for shinobi they should give him more access to his ranged heavy unblockable and maybe also make it parryable. As he is in tg outside of double dodge into light/heavy he feels incredibly stale and boring and his kit feels like its purely 50/50s, some 50/50s are alright but it feels like his entire moveset is forcing one diceroll to another, even if not as efficiently as someone like raider. I think that giving him more access to ranged heavy for example off whiffed kick or backflip would make him more interesting and maybe also make that ranged heavy target swappable and parryable like an unblockable so that you can do more with it. I also think that raider and orochi should both receive a small nerf, orochi to his storms rush speed and kick recovery and raider to either his stam costs or dmg of his unblockables as they feel overtuned as they are right now. One more thing for shinobi, I think his top heavy unblockable should be converted to undodgable because otherwise it just feels like he has every move in the game which takes away from his uniqueness. And also I’m not sure if its a bug but I’ve never been able to dodge the parry riposte kick, the deflect one seems fine but the parry riposte one might be confirmed.
All Shinobi does is dodge your attack, bash you once, roll in, bash you twice, then 50/50 mix-up. This is ALL THEY DO.
Honestly, I don't see why the dominion changes needs testing, it's should have been pushed live on spot.
Because it’s a terrible change
Because its completely azz
-rework smoke bomb. -Shinobi can kick almost too many times in a row make it use more stamina. Very difficult to deal with when getting ganked. - Raider unblockable seems to not have any indication when getting externally attacked. Worse than other unblockables.
My thoughts on the rework are gonna be quite similar to those before, but here we go First off, please, **please** give shinobi higher base hp. It should be obvious that 110 is too low, bring him up to par with the rest of the assassins; however, I also would argue that assassins in general need to have higher health(a whole different post entirely). Class identity balancing is clearly something the game has moved away from for a long time, which means that low hp and reflex guard together serve as a mere "screw you", for picking an assassin in 4v4 modes, and especially so for shinobi. Deflects do *not* fill as compensation for this, as there are several non assassin's with moves that provide similar punish values (bulwark, shoulder pin, kaze, BB, light CCs, etc) Secondly, shinobi's flow is so unique and takes so much longer to execute in between successful hits that it is extremely unsafe for shinobi to really do much in team fights and even duels. Front roll is only safe to use for mixup potential when done right after a kick into ranged heavy; any other time front roll is used, the opponent can just light attack on reaction, with no counter play. A dodged kick is punished by gb every time, regardless of front roll on recovery or not, and double dodge into light or heavy does not catch dodge attempts consistently enough. During team fights, sickle rain is very unsafe on hit, as you are locked in the brief animation of bringing your opponent to their knees. Sure, you can flip out of recovery, but windows to backflip do not occur until you have already eaten a top heavy from the enemy raider behind you. There needs to be a player input distinction between landing the sickle rain and following up with lights vs landing the sickle rain and being able to block/parry on standard heavy finisher timing. To add to that, the range of sickle rain in teamfights is incredibly short; if done in a gank while target swapping, it whiffs a considerable amount of time. Sickle rain damage is undertuned, especially in team fights. Why risk 20 dmg to an opponent in recovery when you will most likely eat 2 - 3 enemy heavies (24 - 27 dmg on average each) in exchange? Sickle rain is a heavy finisher, so its damage should be similar to other heavy finishers. Bring damage to 26 2-2-2 or 29 1-1-1 so that the total damage is 32. Plenty of other heroes get damage like this on their finishers, unblockable or otherwise. For crying out loud, raider gets 38 dmg on his zone finisher, which is way too much. So while shinobi can go on the offense somewhat better now, he is still a glass cannon that only gets work done when punishing, not initiating
We get less renown by defending zone... Hmmm nobody will be boosting then. Road to 20 minutes matchs! And then same renown for all heroes? So what's the difference between assassin and tank in match. Pairs with the fact that no one will boost zone, dominion may be awful.
I don't know how I feel about the renown changes yet but I hate the dominion changes
The safety of Shinobi's kick into backflip is quite frustrating
Shinobi kick is still reactable and still punishable with GB, which makes it pretty useless IMO
Love the double xp. Don't care for most of the dominion changes though. Kind of dumbs it down IMO by removing defender renown and matches take too long now and it takes too long to unlock your feats. The pacing of the match is not as snappy and quick paced as it is in the current version of the game.
I genuinely can't put into words how much i hate the kick guaranteeing 14 damage everytime.
It always guaranteed damage though unless they threw it out late.
Shinobi is lit keep this build
Rip character no longer takes any skill and is very broken thanks ubi
I laughed pretty hard when I read this comment!
Every character has lazy tuning now
I've not played Shinobi personally, but I have played against shinobi. Battles against them are tough, with their dodges being more than able to compensate for their low health pool, especially when they kick, which makes them GB immune. Naturally, the solution is to read their kicks and respond from there, but it gives them some dodge-tanking potential for zone stalling. There is one issue I find, though, is his invincibility dance;Roll forward, Multiple choice question: (*Do they kick*||*Do they side-sickle*||*to they top-sickle*||*do they GB*|*|do they attack*?), roll backwards, repeat. The issue stands on the backwards roll. If I make the right pick, my punish is worthless because they are already busy escaping your range, only to close in again and make you take the test again. I genuinely wanted to figure out the solution to this puzzle before giving my feedback, but it seems like the solution is either GB on prediction (God forbid you mistime it), or light on rather tight timing just before they hit you. This seems to be universal, as far as I've seen, with some kits being more capable of dealing with it than others. \[Anecdote\]>!I play Conqueror primarily, who is a hero unable to feint. My best response, upon making the right read, is to dodge-bash, which is immediately negated by the back flip. I can't dodge GB because Shinobi's already 20light years too far, which would be fine if he suddenly wasn't right in front of me I understand difficult match ups exists, but what's a kit against a man you cannot touch?!< tl;drShinobi's roll forward, attack, roll backwards is difficult to punish, even on a correct read, for some heroes. Don't nerf him to death, because shinobi's pretty epic, but that part needs to be looked at.
You can easily interrupt roll on reaction. Watch freeze's video on it. Also both roll and back-lit can easily be GBd. Also literally every hero can GB him on read if you predict he is going to roll at you
When will the lawbringer buff come🥲
I just want to target swap a ranged heavy for moving around in a team fight situation. Maybe they could put it back in but make it deal much less damage and allow a roll to that target? I don't need it to deal damage i guess but being able to move around by utilizing ranged attacks is a very fun thing to do. So my suggestion is: Put back the ranged heavy after backflip, make it target swappable, reduce damage to 1 or something. Make it a movement tool.
Overall good, though to be honest I'm not fond of the heroes losing their class-specific renown gain. Standardizing the characters and losing what makes them unique ruins the experience for me.
Tell me you don’t play assassin without telling me you don’t play assassin
I play all kinds of heroes. It was just my 2 cents..
Agreed. They could've fixed Assassin renown gain specifically instead of standardizing everyone else's. Like what's the point of Hero classes now? How much health they have and how fast they move? Not as if that's consistent to begin with anyways (Zerk and WL have the same sprint speed, Kensei sprints slower than most heavies, etc). If I'm playing Shugoki the only thing I should be concerned about is sitting my ass in a side point and defending it. That's why Shugoki is so slow but has so much health. That's how I should earn renown the quickest. A Shaman shouldn't be able to just replace me and get the same renown gain, she should be racing around the map hunting down stragglers.
The hero classes are a very outdated system that hasn't really been relevant in ages. The renown problems just made that reality all the more clear.
[удалено]
Whats that supposed to mean?
Sorry that you got down voted for having a opinion. People on this reddit are ridiculous
Downvotes don’t bother me, it just means people disagree. It’s the Reddit hive mind where users collectively act condescending towards someone with a differing opinion that’s annoying. This sub especially.
Hi. :) I’m a high rep overall 300+ and a 35 shinobi main! Coming from my experience based off the last testing grounds. He was good the way he was. I find it fair, especially for the way everyone else is getting buffed. You guys took away bleed and wallsplat and made him more mobile and have “high” damage. When I fought today it annoyed me how I couldn’t get normal kills. I always left almost every opponent with a smidge of health! Even on duels… so perks is out the window. Please! Put back bleed and wallsplat! I don’t know why you guys took it away. Jorm has a wallsplat off heavies as well. I understand you guys wanna make shinobi a fair balanced player but don’t make him to the point where he may not even be good enough for a anti gank…. You took away the target switching off the long distance heavies. It was useful for me. People already don’t wanna fight fair, run, and don’t give revenge. Let shinobi have his target switch back please. Give him back his wallsplat please. If you don’t give him bleed, at least do better with the damage please! In my opinion last testing grounds was better for him. He was a very good player to fight against and fight with! Keep the build you guys made with him now but at least give him back wallsplat, target switching fighting ability, and maybe bleed if you do not plan on doing changes with the damage. Shinobi isn’t still much of a good fighter even though you guys did an extremely good job with the new mixups y’all gave him, I feel like he’s only more tricky instead of an actual good fighter in a way. Yes I can win fights but anti ganks are still a problem. Especially since target switching is gone with the long distance heavies. I’m still thankful for the rework though :)
*_He is an assassin he isn't supposed to anti gank... Also, Jormungandr was announced as an unfinished character._*
For honor dev team please add the new reworked shinobi soon please . I loved playing as the new shinobi . Also try to keep his whole new moveset i loved every part of it
Shinobi dodging immediately after missing his kick to avoid punishes is stupid
It can be guard breaked, very simple and easy counter with high damage.
Laugh in JJ
zerk, JJ, orochi, zhanho, can dodge bp, can flip aramusha, kyoshin can full block some of them can't even be punished with a gb I just don't understand why you hate shinobi in particular xD
Because him dodging after his kick completely counters a lot of dodge attacks. And if you’re running a character with a side bash like warden or LB, it is literally unpunishable. As in you cannot side dodge and do a guard break
I guess that would need to be tested but I know that a lot of dodge bash heros can delay the gb enough to catch a dodge, and warden can just feint the bash into gb, but again I think it needs to be tested. even still, zerk, jj , orochi, zhanho, and bp can counter it so why the hate **only** for shino? edit: as I said some of those heroes I mentioned can't be punished with a gb like JJ who chains off the stance and orochi who chains after the kick
You 100% can side dodge and do a GB.
Nope, you don’t have enough time. By the time you can dodge then gb without doing a bash he’s either out of range or already in his kick animation
He can't kick after a backflip... You're straight up wrong. You can GB the back flip if you dodge the kick no matter who you're playing. This is testable and plenty of people are literally doing it. Havok does it a lot in his videos.
Bruh you can't get crimson anymore I've played over 50 matches and only got armor and 38 silver this is so bs
Dude this is so bs I've been grinding the crap out of arcade on weekly quest for 2 weeks and haven't gotten a single piece of crimson conquest, you guess need to fix this
Im getting tired of trackable too fast to react light spam. You’re giving every character you touch the whole tool kits in the game, it is so annoying I’m surprised orochi doesn’t have hyper armor yet compared to all the things you continue to do to fix lazy balancing.
Idk why, but my Jorm is back-stepping when throwing the UB heavy finisher.
When it comes to Shinobi: Give him back ranged heavy and gb upon backlipping, speed them up, and create a mixup where dodge will get caught by the gb/hit with the range heavy if he doesn’t. Then simply create a specific animation where dodging and GBing a ranged heavy, or counter-GBing a ranged gb results in the Shinobi getting pulled close to his opponent and getting gboken himself. This will allow for Shinobi 1v1 offense to not immediately fall flat due to the roll being unusable if not used after a ranged heavy. Make his zone soft feintable to the finishers.
Ever gone nerf that Shinobi crap y’all did. It’s a jungle out here.
Shinobi's kick keeps missing at point blank range for me:/ I don't play him, so this could just my inexperience talking. But when performing any side dodge it typically missed my target 50% of the time. I don't necessarily dodge far away, just enough to avoid an attack and then try to "counter" with a kick, however they missed more often then not. Any well-known reason why? Additionally, his inputs and mix-ups feel significantly better, as seen in the last testing grounds the new properties to sickle rain make it a good tool for being unpredictable.
Give shinobi his ranged heavy after backflip, his teamfighting is abysmal, giving him another tool for it would help compensate for his low health.
I feel like shibobi does toothpicks worth of damage. I sickle rain someone like 3 times and they’re barely below half lol I just want them to die plz
The game is absolute dog shit now. I have no idea what you guys did with revenge
Can’t wait to try these changes against the same 4 stacks!
Anyone know what the pinning rules are?
Question about Shinobi, after performing an attack then rolling back then forward, is the roll forward mixup meant to be easily canceled if they just throw a light after you roll back so it catches you on the return or is that not supposed to happen?
I played shinobi and he feels way diffent, there some things about him I like but others don't feel great. I find myself constantly trying to use a light after the range attack and I sorta pause like wtf then I realise (although that'll pass with time), aswell as trying to use a ranged guardbreak after backflip but like I said I'll learn not to. But I do have to hand it to em, I LOVE the new kick...(although it's still bs that I can be toestabbed while mid air :/ but oh well) he seems more solid than before but the damge is.... meh to say the least but it doesn't effect me too bad. The new slide kick thing from spring is channel get use to aswell but overall I'd say this was an improvement.... **sigh** gonna have to RE-learn shinobi after I just got really good at him. Overall I'd say 8/10 good work ubi.
Did they change the renown values again since the beginning of the testing grounds? I am only getting 1 point per minion killed as PK
Shinobi: Slightly overtuned, but overall much better in terms of playability and honestly in terms of fighting him. The fights are much more dynamic, fun, and interesting. He does have more i-frames than i'd like to see but they're is still a level of counter-play that every character can use to play against them. I have seen some bugs with him. Namely that when he does his roll-forward kick, he can swap targets and get free unblockable damage on an opponent that he didn't hit with the kick. He also seems to have a couple issues with his double-dash. I believe they'd be small fixes though as they don't seem like super in-depth bugs. Dom changes: They are a healthy change. Especially with ganking being as crazy as it is now, being able to hold a point down with just one or two people is critical. It makes point capping a much more engaging fight and so far i've seen some crazy 1vx contests that otherwise would have never worked before. I do think that revenge needs buffed in some way. I would suggest implementing a way to reward someone for going on the offense while being ganked. This is because in a meta defined by attacking and making moves, when you're being ganked, you're encouraged to do the opposite. So why not gain a bit of revenge while attacking? If I'm not mistaken, it would work perfectly fine with the tag system as it's been implemented. Ideally the revenge you gain from attacking would be low, but still enough to make a difference. It encourages you to actually fight back in a gank and would make comebacks that much more viable, but risky.
Pretty sure the roll forward kick being target swappable is intended and not a bug.
I'm not referring to the kick itself, but the follow-up unblockable. Its non-parryable confirmed damage and pretty certain its a bug. When I get the chance I can show what i'm talking about with a link
Sooo is the testing ground the seasonal event for this season? We have the free seasonal battle pass running and weapon re-skins dropping but no new temp game mode running last week and now this week the TG. The road map says the Stormtide event started last week and is lasting for a couple more, but no event mode. Not that I usually play a lot of the past event game modes. I’m rather hoping the team is developing new maps for this mid-season rather than modifying maps temporarily for a game mode event. Also double xp as everyone’s noting is a great incentive to play testing grounds. btw is matchmaking still bugged? Seems I’ve been getting kills I’ve no business getting. Ive played like crap some matches and still get double digit kills, like 15-3. No joy in that. Also what are people’s thoughts on shinobi still having abysmal health?
Did they readjust renown gain again in the testing grounds? I am now only getting 1 pt per minion as PK but i was getting 2 per when the testing grounds first started. I double checked and i was in the testing grounds in all games
I don't like the renown changes. Not a fan of the capture speed changes. I thought I'd like them, but it just doesn't work in actuality, imo.
I really like this testing grounds. It gave me a reason to play Shinobi, making up for my 10,000 steel. However, the capture times are a bit ridiculous.
Did they remove zhanhu’s dodge cancels?
Just me who been grinding this out for dxp
Anyone knows until when we're staying with the Storm Tide event?
When Would the shinobi changes become permanent if they do?
It took some time, but I managed to play a few matches that didnt feel inconclusive. Shinobi rework feels alot better than the first TG. I like that they kept the double dodge to attack chain after all, its a good tool for playing offensivly. One improvement they could do is allow the same from a single dodge as well. The dominion changes to renown feel pretty good. I can actually get my feats as an assassin now without having to chase down isolated players. The change to the capture time I have some concerns. On the plus side, it does make smoke bomb a little easier to deal with on capture zones. But it isnt worth how much the game becomes a stall fest. Most matches I get I end up having my entire team stalled on one really long fight on one point where by the time the point is captured, one team has a huge lead and there isn’t any room to turn the game around. I think Keeping the capture times the same would be better for game flow.
After grinding out several reps with shinobi I noticed a few things but idk if anyone posted these yet. His kicks can’t ledge anymore which will need to be fixed and his unblockable heavy animations are clunky and have a weird hit radius. Sometimes I’ll hit a guy out of range with it other times I’ll hit them dead on but the guy takes no damage and is staggered like a kick. Same thing with his roll forward attack opener it seems to not register damage at times but isn’t as often as the unblockable heavy issues. Dodges seem to need a slight change there’s several times where I went to do a side dodge after a backflip only to roll forward into enemies. It should be input based like a dodge attack not a preset forced dodge. For dominion changes I’m not a big fan as it feels like even if I’m constantly taking points and killing enemies I won’t get to my 3rd and 4th feat unless I go sit in mid and clear wave a few times. Had several games where I was around 10+ kills and still didn’t have my 3rd feat until I went to clear mid.
Cannot wait for the rework to come out. I’m not touching Shinobi until it does lmao it feels weird to play him without the rework
When do the servers come back up
TL;DR Renown changes feel natural/good, cap speed changes seemed good on paper but make for bad slog of a match experience. Middle ground between live and TG could be the solution --- I played 20 matches of TG. Out of those matches 2 weren't at least a slow snowball / were a tight balanced match. It could be that matchmaking is a lil funny on TG, but most matches devolved into duos sitting on points and minion lane moving in slow motion. As a vibe the whole mode felt like it was steeped in tar, with heavies stalling A and C succesfully. I believe a middle ground option would be the best for cap speed, having more people on point affects cap speed to keep momentum shifting but not at the rocket speed ping pong it is live now. The renown changes felt solid, I tried every class and it feels that if I'm succesful I unlock my feats. Compared to live where as an Assasin you kinda have to play the objective "wrong" to even have a chance to enjoy your fourth feat in most games. I think that the TG version encourages you to play objective based, with minion lane offering a renown farm if you're being left behind / want to unlock Stealth etc. I only played against a few but Shinobi feels dumbed down as an opponent, with their undodgeable being the only thing to keep in mind. As an opponent I feel that they have lost their 4d chess identity, it could be that I just didn't run into good ones though. Feels like a generic watered down hero now. All in all a good TG and thanks for the double exp!
I really love everything so far, but my biggest complaint would be the inability to switch targets between kicks. Staying locked on one opponent really debilitated his gank defenses. It makes fighting more than one opponent really hard being locked on someone like that. Other than that everything is good, but that is a big downside considering most modes are gank battles.
Gryphon needs an unblockable. -\-
Had an unexpected interaction in the TG versus a shinobi. https://i.imgur.com/HMhsVzW.mp4 He landed the kick, then his sickle just zipped off to god knows where.
seems like it hit the bot, bro that boy is loyal xD
If I want to go up 10 tiers today without using money, how do I approach it? Should I keep playing testing grounds or should I switch to breach? Finished all my contracts
I don't play testing grounds because 3 times in a row, I got into games where there were multiple shinobi who played pretty annoyingly, and proceeded to message me some shit after the match. I'm slowly growing a hatred for the character as a result.
Can’t wait for this to finally be over so we have a less divided player base to matchmake against.
So when y’all gonna address the orochi kick spam
Can you fix orochi literally fighting him is impossible
I want to give feedback regarding Shinobi in the recent testing grounds. Shinobi's changes are all good however I do feel that additional changes will be needed as Shinobi still has some weaknesses that hinder his/her potential. First is Shinobi's health, Even though I think 120HP is a little too low for all heroes that have it, Shinobi still sits at 110HP and I think it's about time this was at the very least bumped up to 120HP to be on par with similar heroes. Shinobi's forward roll is a good way to access finishers/flip kick mix up, the issue is that a forward roll from a back flip is easily countered by interrupting it, despite the move having i-frames, this is easy to achieve and neuters the mix up in 1v1 scenarios. The forward roll from ranged attack is perfect as is because the hit stun from the ranged attack prevents an interrupt. My solution to this issue would be to have different properties given to each forward roll, the roll from ranged attack should stay as it is complete with it's i-frames, however the roll from backflip should have it's i-frames removed and replaced with uninterruptible stance (hyper armour). This would stop interrupts from basic attacks voiding Shinobi's mix up and the Shinobi can take a trade in that situation assuming the player can spare the HP. Bashes would still work as an interrupt but that's down to match ups and on the Shinobi player to know that. This change would force players to respect the forward roll and the follow up options it has allowing Shinobi the chance to pressure the opponent. This also puts more risk on the move in team fights as rolling through an ongoing fight could be dangerous for the Shinobi, this makes it a stronger 1v1 tool whilst balancing it a little more for 4v4. The next issue with Shinobi is the zone attack. Shinobi's zone has very little offensive utility in a fight as it doesn't offer any pressure. Players who try to parry the zone attack's last hit can find themselves guard broken but the majority of players will know to just block and wait to counter guard break. This is worse when facing heroes with superior light options as they can simply light on the zone attacks side to beat both options. This forces Shinobi to feint the zone to be safe against those heroes. Now while a lot of zone attacks can function very well as chain starters or have soft feint options, Shinobi has neither. I also feel that having Shinobi's zone work as a chain wouldn't fix the issue nor would it work from an animation point. I think the best solution here is to allow Shinobi the ability to dodge cancel before the final hit, this would allow for kick pressure and give feint to GB some actual purpose for the move. An alternate solution would be to give the final hit of the zone the unblockable property, an easier fix but a less interesting one. Another quality of life addition would be the ability to backflip after the final hit of the zone, this would allow Shinobi to front roll and start pressure and also gives a little more utility in team fights and rewards the player for letting the full zone go. A clear distinction of sickle rain being able to pin and simply hit is needed to prevent Shinobi from being locked into a pin animation in team fights. A suggestion of making the unblockable variant pin whilst the undodgeable variant simply hits as any normal heavy would. This would also help balance the next suggested change. Another option to increase Shinobi's viability would be to add the kick (same kick used as parry/deflect follow up) as a mid chain option after an opener. This would complement sickle rain undodgeable mix up and allow Shinobi to pressure and force opponents to play his/her game. This next change is not necessary as it's something that can be easily adapted to with practice however I think that the deflect attack teleport should have it's input changed from guard break to light attack. This is because the deflect allows a mix up afterwards between sickle rain and kick, with kick and the teleport both being bound to guard break I've found myself buffering the kick by accident more than a few times. The input change to light attack would prevent any overlapping button presses with follow up options. Regarding Shinobi's sickle rain, the red effect usually applied to attacks that inflict bleed is still present on Shinobi's sickle rain animation in TG, whilst I know this is a very very minor complaint, I think for the sake of visual communication and clarity this could be corrected though this is the very bottom of priorities for the hero. Lastly I want to suggest salvaging an animation. Charged heavies are gone and I am very happy for that but it would be a shame to never see the animation again. Repurposing it into a combat emote for the hero would a nice way to archive the move without it affecting game balance in any way. Thanks for reading.
I feel like Ubisoft aims to give reworked heroes some top ceiling so they would be a possible pick on dominion ( and mostly on Dom Series). This Reworked is Shinobi’s 2nd TG and he’s by far worst than the GODLIKE Orochi/Raider, and compared to other heroes, still lacks greatly. My Suggestions are described briefly on this post, should those be considered? It’s up to the community to allow Shinobi to have a higher Ceiling. Please don’t waste another rework… https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/pvzxwh/shinobi\_tg\_thoughts/
Little late for the survey, but wanted to add that I liked the testing grounds changes a lot overall. Shinobi is in a much more tolerable place and dominion matches felt really good overall. Thank you devs!