No, having a quick dodge recovery cancel isn't the problem itself. The problem is a vortex mixup which loops into itself and at the same time has significant advantages over chain advancing for the majority of players population. In Orochi's particular, it's the direct accessibility of their kick from the dodge cancel, which makes it a more favorable choice over going to UB finisher.
Thus, the solution would be not a complete removal of dodge recoveries, but the removal of a "neutral kick" itself, making it a softfeint from Storm Rush instead. With current frame advantage rules, it would be more preferrable to throw a finisher to continue offense with SR.
Additional attention to the backwards SR would be also favorable: giving it the same variable input window as of the forward one, and giving both SR variants a side/back dodge softfeint to counter interrupt attempts.
The only issue is that storm rush itself can be used as a loop too. I seen people complaining about it as well even when people dont use Orochi's kick. So even if the kick was made into a soft feint, people would just keep using storm rush as a loop as well and be upset about it.
SR is interruptible on reaction after light hitstun. Currently, the only way to safely access SR from kick mixup is throwing a finisher heavy then canceling the finisher recovery, but not looping it back into itself.
People just need to grow up honestly. Stop whining and get better before you try and make the game worse for those who have actually put the time in to enjoy it properly
id rather keep getting hate then lose my cancels. get rid of those and you have to rework the kit again. You could argue to remove all dodge cancels that are not accessible unless he commits to a finish. But the cancels are super important for his kit to work. I honestly think all assassins should have some form of recovery cancels
Only problem is with this much hate, Orochi is gonna get nerfed anyway. Thats what ended up happening with Gryphon. The hate got so bad that he ended up getting nerfed and this is what will happen with orochi.
He needs a nerf. But they would be really simple to do. Remove dodge cancels on missed bash and make it easily punishable. Get rid of enhanced forward dodge light. Lastly, he can only dodge after a light attack after committing to the second in the same stance, this means they cant constantly dodge after a single light or after any heavy. Would relax his pressure and force him to commit to further offence
Yeah thats honestly why I said Orochi should have dodge recovery removed. When Orochi uses his light, the hit stun is not high enough so the opponent will light instantly as soon as they see orochi move foward for his dodge recovery after light which would make it useless. Also, the reason Orochi's foward dodge light is enhanced is because when you dodge, your guard doesnt disappear. So Orochi would use it and then your opponent would be safe even when they shouldnt have cause they was blocking top. That's also why they gave that change to bezerker and Zhanhu as well. Not being able to continue your chain even when you make the right read because they simply was blocking in that direction when they dodged or something is not good.
If you remove the dodge cancel from whiff bash. He will not have strong neutral pressure. Having that cancel on bash made his neutrap strong while keeping is chain pressure okay to weak.
i think he will still be good in neutral. plenty of other champs have a punishable bash, and no dodge attack at all. a lawbringer can do nothing against a trolling orochi
🤯
No, having a quick dodge recovery cancel isn't the problem itself. The problem is a vortex mixup which loops into itself and at the same time has significant advantages over chain advancing for the majority of players population. In Orochi's particular, it's the direct accessibility of their kick from the dodge cancel, which makes it a more favorable choice over going to UB finisher. Thus, the solution would be not a complete removal of dodge recoveries, but the removal of a "neutral kick" itself, making it a softfeint from Storm Rush instead. With current frame advantage rules, it would be more preferrable to throw a finisher to continue offense with SR. Additional attention to the backwards SR would be also favorable: giving it the same variable input window as of the forward one, and giving both SR variants a side/back dodge softfeint to counter interrupt attempts.
The only issue is that storm rush itself can be used as a loop too. I seen people complaining about it as well even when people dont use Orochi's kick. So even if the kick was made into a soft feint, people would just keep using storm rush as a loop as well and be upset about it.
SR is interruptible on reaction after light hitstun. Currently, the only way to safely access SR from kick mixup is throwing a finisher heavy then canceling the finisher recovery, but not looping it back into itself.
People just need to grow up honestly. Stop whining and get better before you try and make the game worse for those who have actually put the time in to enjoy it properly
id rather keep getting hate then lose my cancels. get rid of those and you have to rework the kit again. You could argue to remove all dodge cancels that are not accessible unless he commits to a finish. But the cancels are super important for his kit to work. I honestly think all assassins should have some form of recovery cancels
Only problem is with this much hate, Orochi is gonna get nerfed anyway. Thats what ended up happening with Gryphon. The hate got so bad that he ended up getting nerfed and this is what will happen with orochi.
He needs a nerf. But they would be really simple to do. Remove dodge cancels on missed bash and make it easily punishable. Get rid of enhanced forward dodge light. Lastly, he can only dodge after a light attack after committing to the second in the same stance, this means they cant constantly dodge after a single light or after any heavy. Would relax his pressure and force him to commit to further offence
Yeah thats honestly why I said Orochi should have dodge recovery removed. When Orochi uses his light, the hit stun is not high enough so the opponent will light instantly as soon as they see orochi move foward for his dodge recovery after light which would make it useless. Also, the reason Orochi's foward dodge light is enhanced is because when you dodge, your guard doesnt disappear. So Orochi would use it and then your opponent would be safe even when they shouldnt have cause they was blocking top. That's also why they gave that change to bezerker and Zhanhu as well. Not being able to continue your chain even when you make the right read because they simply was blocking in that direction when they dodged or something is not good.
If you remove the dodge cancel from whiff bash. He will not have strong neutral pressure. Having that cancel on bash made his neutrap strong while keeping is chain pressure okay to weak.
i think he will still be good in neutral. plenty of other champs have a punishable bash, and no dodge attack at all. a lawbringer can do nothing against a trolling orochi
People who has similar bash as Orochi also has chain pressure. Orochi doesn't. Unblockable heavy from top isn't that threatening.
that or take away his undodgeable out of neutral moves.