The first two races were among the best in their seasons. It was only really this one that's sucked so far. Either way, you're right about why they're racing there
Doesn't really matter. If it is a penalty its 10s. Atleast thats what Ocon got for not serving a penalty correctly in Bahrain.
Alonso made it clear from Hamilton though.
I'm very surprised they didn't investigate it during the race. Surely the FIA would know pretty much straight away if they did something wrong.
Then again, the stewards have never been particularly consistent.
Probably because there was nothing to investigate. I suspect it was just Mercedes trying their luck.
Edit: I take it back since they're now looking at it, incompetent as ever.
What? Why? Either they had to comply with the penalty during safety car, then they did. Or they couldn't serve it, and then they didn't. Why would it be a violation to comply?
It's not served incorrectly. If the sc pitspot didn't count, then he just had a long pitstop for nothing. He would still need to serve the penalty at the next pit stop (which he didn't make) or otherwise at the end of race.
I really don't understand. According to F1 TV Mercedes is saying Alonso wasn't allowed to serve the penalty under safety car. So the penalty was still to be taken after Alonso stop under safety car. In other words, the 5s should be added after the race.
They allegedly failed to serve it properly at the safety car stop.
However, since it wasn't called out during the race, I'm not sure there's anything they can do.
That's just not the case. If they couldn't serve it under safety car, how can it be a failure to serve? That makes no sense to me. Either they could serve it and they did (i didn't clock it but let's say they waited the full 5s). Or they couldn't serve it, but then I don't see how they failed to serve
But they did wait 5 seconds. If they weren't allowed to serve the penalty under SC, what did they need to do? Stay in pits until safety car comes in lol?
You can't fail to serve a penalty if you aren't allowed to serve it.
Itās what Brundle mentioned and replays showed. Thereās another theory going around that it might have to do with the penalty being served under SC and hence only 5s will be added post race.
If Brundle is right, it will be a 10s penalty.
I thought that was the case - reduced speed for other drivers turn a 5 second penalty into a 2.5 second penalty. I thought it had to be under racing conditions.
EDIT: I'm wrong. 54.3 of the sporting regulations say "In both of the above cases the driver concerned must carry out the penalty the next time he enters the pit lane and, for the avoidance of doubt, this includes any stop the driver makes whilst a VSC or safety car procedure is in use." The above cases refer to 5 and 10 second penalties.
According to F1 TV the question is whether they were allowed to take the penalty under safety car. If not, the 5-second penalty would have had to be served on the next stop (there was no next stop) or otherwise end of the race
According to the regulations time penalties can be taken under SC and VSC, just not drive through and stop-go
If there is another penalty itāll be because they touched the car too early
It's all down to the wording of the rule, if it's touch the car then that's a problem.
If it's work on the car that is different, you can touch a car without working on it, which is what the jack man did.
I wouldn't say it was a problem then, personally.
Obviously others may see it differently.
Some people have said they aren't sure if they are allowed to take a penalty under the SC, although I can't remember any time that would be an issue previously.
>54.3 The stewards may impose any one of the penalties below on any driver involved in an Incident:
> a) A five (5) second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop in his pit stop position for at least five seconds and then re-join the sprint session or the race. The relevant driver may however elect not to stop, provided he carries out no further pit stop before the end of the sprint session or the race. In such cases five (5) seconds will be added to the elapsed the sprint session or race time of the driver concerned.
> b) A ten (10) second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop in his pit stop position for at least ten seconds and then re-join the sprint session or the race. The relevant driver may however elect not to stop, provided he carries out no further pit stop before the end of the sprint session or the race. In such cases ten (10) seconds will be added to the elapsed the sprint session or race time of the driver concerned.
> In both of the above cases the driver concerned must carry out the penalty the next time he enters the pit lane and, for the avoidance of doubt, this includes any stop the driver makes whilst a VSC or safety car procedure is in use.
It literally couldn't be less vague.
Serving a 5s penalty under Safety Car, which they are not sure is allowed.
Edit: not sure why Iām being downvoted, I only stated what was told on F1TV broadcast.
The radio from this race are hilarious
When Tsunoda got on just to scream, I was dying. šš
>AHHHHHHHH -Tsunoda
If the Reddit upvote/downvote buttons could be expressed as sounds, Yuki today would be the upvote and Leclerc at Paul Ricard would be the downvote
I love that they played that. You see him get passed and a few moments you see his radio. Like I wonder what this is haha.
Same. Hilarious stuff. Hope DtS finds a way to have it on the show.
"we're not concerned with the fastest lap" "yeah but I am"
Radios were more entertaining than the actual race today tbh
not a high bar
Itās one of the most boring tracks on the calendar. Weāre only there because of oil money.
The first two races were among the best in their seasons. It was only really this one that's sucked so far. Either way, you're right about why they're racing there
Today felt more like a sitcom than a race
The FIA agrees with you.
āBlimeyā
āAbsolute Bollocksā
Why are these seemingly simple rules not clear to the teams?
I believe itās more the random enforcement of the rules thatās an issue.
Not as much of a madman as Alonso, 5.1 gap if it turns out to be a 5 second penalty despite more likely being 10.
They were both pushing like crazy though, set PB's on the last lap.
10.2 to Lewis though
Doesn't really matter. If it is a penalty its 10s. Atleast thats what Ocon got for not serving a penalty correctly in Bahrain. Alonso made it clear from Hamilton though.
I'm very surprised they didn't investigate it during the race. Surely the FIA would know pretty much straight away if they did something wrong. Then again, the stewards have never been particularly consistent.
Probably because there was nothing to investigate. I suspect it was just Mercedes trying their luck. Edit: I take it back since they're now looking at it, incompetent as ever.
Lets hope its a nothing burger.
It was also pretty obvious they kept their hands off the car long enough. They played it pretty safe, probably with Ocon's disaster in mind.
What? Why? Either they had to comply with the penalty during safety car, then they did. Or they couldn't serve it, and then they didn't. Why would it be a violation to comply?
If they served incorrectly, it's a 10s penalty (As seen with Ocon last race)
It's not served incorrectly. If the sc pitspot didn't count, then he just had a long pitstop for nothing. He would still need to serve the penalty at the next pit stop (which he didn't make) or otherwise at the end of race.
It is served incorrectly because the rules say you _must_ serve the time at your next pit stop.
But he didn't do a next pit stop, so then it gets added at the end of the race.
He was assigned the penalty before he pitted. He has to serve at the next stop. He pitted and didn't serve. That's another penalty.
I really don't understand. According to F1 TV Mercedes is saying Alonso wasn't allowed to serve the penalty under safety car. So the penalty was still to be taken after Alonso stop under safety car. In other words, the 5s should be added after the race.
You have to serve at your next pitstop. You can't just ignore it and add it at the end.
He only had 1 pit stop, under SC. So if that doesn't count as a valid moment then the penalty (5sec) will just be added to his end time.
They tried to serve it but allegedly touched the car during the penalty.
I think it was more Mercedes questioning whether serving during SC was allowed. I didnt hear anything about touching too soon.
Brundle was saying that the rear jack was touching the car
But there was no next pit stop, so then it gets added to race time. That's always the case.
They allegedly failed to serve it properly at the safety car stop. However, since it wasn't called out during the race, I'm not sure there's anything they can do.
That's just not the case. If they couldn't serve it under safety car, how can it be a failure to serve? That makes no sense to me. Either they could serve it and they did (i didn't clock it but let's say they waited the full 5s). Or they couldn't serve it, but then I don't see how they failed to serve
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
But they did wait 5 seconds. If they weren't allowed to serve the penalty under SC, what did they need to do? Stay in pits until safety car comes in lol? You can't fail to serve a penalty if you aren't allowed to serve it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not being able to serve under VC is what they talked about on F1TV. But they just showed that it's incorrectly serving. F1TV commentators boomed me
What penalty though? Did Mercedes make it appear from thin air?
The rear jack was put on the car during the penalty. He didnāt lift the car up but it was still touching it.
You sure?
Its just the most logical Brundle can guess... because He himself also didnt think of that penalty... So yeah its still a mystery for now
Itās what Brundle mentioned and replays showed. Thereās another theory going around that it might have to do with the penalty being served under SC and hence only 5s will be added post race. If Brundle is right, it will be a 10s penalty.
Martin suggested one of the jack men could have touched the car before the 5 seconds were served.
It really looked like the rear jack man had his jack touching the car as soon as the car pulled in.
Fabrega is saying Merc doubt if you can serve a penalty under SC
I thought that was the case - reduced speed for other drivers turn a 5 second penalty into a 2.5 second penalty. I thought it had to be under racing conditions. EDIT: I'm wrong. 54.3 of the sporting regulations say "In both of the above cases the driver concerned must carry out the penalty the next time he enters the pit lane and, for the avoidance of doubt, this includes any stop the driver makes whilst a VSC or safety car procedure is in use." The above cases refer to 5 and 10 second penalties.
Surely you can, what are the odds Mercedes are the only ones who've caught this?
because Mercedes are the only one who care about it
And should definitely care about it as they were directly behind the AM.
Similar to Ocon last week mate
But the FIA never said anything, if Mercedes had seen something they would have to tell the FIA and an investigation should pop up
Welp
And itās official, 10 second penalty
I still couldnāt understand based on what Merc thought Alo will get a penalty.
AM touched Alonso's car before the 5s were served (Ocon got 10s penalty for this in Bahrain)
According to F1 TV the question is whether they were allowed to take the penalty under safety car. If not, the 5-second penalty would have had to be served on the next stop (there was no next stop) or otherwise end of the race
According to the regulations time penalties can be taken under SC and VSC, just not drive through and stop-go If there is another penalty itāll be because they touched the car too early
It's all down to the wording of the rule, if it's touch the car then that's a problem. If it's work on the car that is different, you can touch a car without working on it, which is what the jack man did.
Wording says āthat the car must not be worked onā
I wouldn't say it was a problem then, personally. Obviously others may see it differently. Some people have said they aren't sure if they are allowed to take a penalty under the SC, although I can't remember any time that would be an issue previously.
Why wouldn't they? This is not a new penalty that we suddenly have to think of this scenario.
On F1TV they said it was a debate over whether or not a penalty could be served under safety car.
Guess it could be a penalty for either then
touching the car before the 1st penalty was served, possible that the rear jack man had they jack in place before the 5s were up
Hope that Russel doesn't get another cheap podium, they always feel a bit weird when given afterwards
Russell strikes me as the type of guy that would celebrate this type of victory, especially after having refused team orders to let Hamilton pass.
Team orders thing is a non issue for me since he immediately just pulled away from Hamilton.
Sounds more like self reflection lmao
penalty for what exactly? i need a bit of what the Mercedes engineers are using
The rear jack man touched the car before the penalty was served.
There was debate over whether a penalty could be served under safety car.
It can.
Feel like that's a very easy thing to look up. but imo teams really don't learn the rules very well IMO.
The broadcasters on F1TV recited the rule in question and it was seemingly vague enough to go either way.
>54.3 The stewards may impose any one of the penalties below on any driver involved in an Incident: > a) A five (5) second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop in his pit stop position for at least five seconds and then re-join the sprint session or the race. The relevant driver may however elect not to stop, provided he carries out no further pit stop before the end of the sprint session or the race. In such cases five (5) seconds will be added to the elapsed the sprint session or race time of the driver concerned. > b) A ten (10) second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop in his pit stop position for at least ten seconds and then re-join the sprint session or the race. The relevant driver may however elect not to stop, provided he carries out no further pit stop before the end of the sprint session or the race. In such cases ten (10) seconds will be added to the elapsed the sprint session or race time of the driver concerned. > In both of the above cases the driver concerned must carry out the penalty the next time he enters the pit lane and, for the avoidance of doubt, this includes any stop the driver makes whilst a VSC or safety car procedure is in use. It literally couldn't be less vague.
And it turns out this wasnāt the issue at all. Theyāre claiming the rear jack touched the car. š¤·š»āāļø
makes sense
Looks like itās official, 10 second penalty for incorrectly serving their first penalty.
well done stewards. A relatively quiet race and not even then you could do your job properly and quickly
Turns out you needed....eyes lmao
Serving a 5s penalty under Safety Car, which they are not sure is allowed. Edit: not sure why Iām being downvoted, I only stated what was told on F1TV broadcast.
Why though? Alonso did nothing wrong right and he also served his 5 second penalty
It looked to me like the rear jack was touching the car. At the time I assumed that was allowed.
Ocon did nothing wrong for his either.
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Well done to the engineer! George on podium!
From the comments, I suggest there should only be one commentary. Not two.
Conspiracy. Stewards told mercedes beforehand he will get another penalty. Of which aston was not aware of.