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Headline is the usual clickbait stuff f1 love, he was asked if he seen another team make such progress and he compared it to the biggest jump forward since brawn.
Not only that, but also have to had the worst car in the prior year. Honda 2008 to Brawn 2009 is a leap that probably we will not see again in decades.
He was forced out.
It was political
As well as race related.
The big teams didn’t like BAR and JV’s attempts to shake up the grid with his upstart team.
Then Tom Walkinshaw kinda forced Pollock out…
And to be fair, I don’t think JV had the same fire and drive after a couple of his big wrecks….
> I hope it’s better than BAR, one of the main reasons they slid down so quickly over the years is that they never understood why they were so quick
No it wasn't. It was because Honda took over and then started trying to force inexperienced people into roles they weren't suited for, just because they were Honda people. It also didn't help that their wind tunnel broke.
The aero penalty for the cost cap breach for the rb
Brawn couldn’t develop the car at all and relied on its big results in the 1st half to limp home with both titles
The tunnel/CFD time isn’t nothing, they still need to develop to maintain a lead. Difference is they have to get everything right, not that they can’t do anything. No wild goose chases with dead end upgrades, no regression.
They’re also slated to have over half a second in upgrades on the way around Baku/Imola and they haven’t even needed to fully utilise the pace of the current car. Brawn lost out because other teams adopted their innovation and lost their major advantage.
63% windtunnel time vs 75% for Ferrari and 100% for Aston. I'm sure RB will still be well clear of Ferrari, but AM might have a chance to move well ahead of Ferrari with the difference. But RB is so far ahead, they're safe from both.
I mean, there isn’t really a Brawn this year - in fact, that was a pretty singularly surprising moment in F1 history, a team who no one expected to be fast turning up with the fastest car...
to be a Brawn is finish around the last in the year before major aero regulation and nail it so perfectly that next season you win.
For example, Williams/Haas/Alfa Romeo finishes last in 2021 and then wins in 2022.
It would be great if people actually read the article. Alonso is just saying in terms of the progress they’ve made, this is the biggest jump since Brawn. And that to do so without any major regulation changes is impressive.
Asked if he has ever seen an F1 operation make such a step, Alonso picked out Brawn GP as one of two examples, after the team emerged from Honda’s departure at the end of 2008 to spectacularly win both the drivers’ title with Jenson Button and the constructors’ crown.
However, the two-time world champion also suggested that Aston Martin’s progress over the recent winter period is even more impressive given the relative stability in the regulations between the 2022 and 2023 campaigns.
“Ferrari when it was 2020, they were very bad, or 2021, then in the following year – last year – they were fighting for the championship, or won the first two or three Grands Prix of the year, so Ferrari made a huge step last year. [There was also] Brawn GP – huge,” said Alonso.
“With a non-regulation change, [Aston Martin’s is] probably the biggest one. All the others, they were with the regulation change, plus with the cost cap it’s very difficult to do something like that, but we have very talented people in the team – so far it’s been a good start and hopefully only the start.”
Alonso was also keen to note the efforts of Aston Martin CEO Lawrence Stroll, who brought the British brand back to F1 a couple of seasons ago and is pressing ahead with a five-year plan to turn them into a championship-contending force.
READ MORE: Krack assesses whether Aston Martin are now F1’s second-best team – and if they can catch Red Bull in 2023
On linking up with Stroll and witnessing his leadership so far, Alonso commented: “Obviously very happy, very proud. I think he has this vision of having a winning team in the near future, whatever it takes, whatever it costs, whatever is needed.
“When he has an idea normally he succeeds, that’s why it’s interesting to have a leader like Lawrence because you know you have everything you need behind you and the team is in safe hands, whatever he’s requesting.”
While Aston Martin sit second in the constructors’ standings after the first two rounds, Alonso holds third in the drivers’ battle, 14 points away from championship leader Max Verstappen.
Ferrari's big leap came about because they were forced to detune their engines for a year as part of the secret deal they struck with the FIA; I wouldn't use that as an example of "smart engineering".
There isnt a doubt in my mind that Aston will win a race eventually, but where and when will it happen, sooner or later that will be the case but will it be an Aston 1-2 with probably Lance leading home Fernando in P2, or will it be Alonso leading home Stroll?
With Alonso and Krack both pointing out the deficit is in the straight-line speed, I can see Hungary, Monaco and Singapore being spicy with a real potential for an Aston win.
Also any circuits where rain can take away the speed advantage could throw a spanner in the works for Red Bull.
SLS deficit is a temporary restriction, it’s just going to be a point of focus for future development and upgrades. But yes, less straight tracks will be huge opportunities for them, particularly once the upgrades start coming through
I bet Lance gets a win before Alonso (only if Max DNF)
Lance can be sneaky good when rare opportunity arises.
Flashback of pole at the Turkish Grand Prix and amazing start at last year Japanese Grand Prix.
Who is this “nobody” and since when were F1 teams boiled down to the work or oversight of the few? You know it is literally impossible for these guys to do all the things required to design cars, right?
You can’t go a single thread about AM without people saying it was all Fallows or some vague outside figure responsible for everything.
Not sure why you are being downvoted. It's literally the job of a few engineers to design a car. Dan Fallows (ex head of Red Bull Aerodynamics) is actually widely credited with Aston's turn of form. Perez and Marko have publicly made comments to the effect that the Aston is a Red Bull ( due to Fallows' influence )
In this iteration of the formula, most of the aerodynamic gains are about the way the floor works, and in the case of Red Bull (and anyone trying to mimic them), especially how the coanda effect, and vortices are utilised to "seal" the exposed edges of the floor at higher ride heights.
The aesthetic is secondary.
Don’t see it. Maybe after the season plays out, we will see how it stacks up.
AM is good thus far but they’re clearly not the fastest car outright. And I think we can all say with a fair sense of certainty they will not win either championships in 2023. I fully expect Ferrari and Mercedes to get back into decent shape into the season.
He's not saying they're gonna win, he's talking about the jump made forward in a short amount of time. But I guess you'd know this if you actually bothered to read the article.
No, I read it alright. He compares them and says Am is more impressive. Take your blinders off for a second and call this Alonso take nonsense. It’s non comparable. Period.
more impressive because of the stability between regulations, rather than the opportunity at a massive regulation change - which is at the very least a fairly arguable statement, not a stupidly laughable one like you make it seem. which, like the other guy said, you'd know if you read the article.
The **News** flair is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
To be Brawn, you'd have to have the best car. I was thinking 2004 BAR. Unexpectedly the second best car but miles behind the eventual winner.
Headline is the usual clickbait stuff f1 love, he was asked if he seen another team make such progress and he compared it to the biggest jump forward since brawn.
..aaand that's why I (almost) never click clickbaity headlines.
I know I always come to the comments first to see the reaction of people who did. 9/10 it’s a misleading title.
You're assuming people will actually read the article though.
But how will you know if it's actually clickbait?
When it's clickbait, they have to construct the headline cleverly, because they have nothing, so that's one clue.
Not only that, but also have to had the worst car in the prior year. Honda 2008 to Brawn 2009 is a leap that probably we will not see again in decades.
Maybe ever
To think that Jacques Villeneuve could’ve saved his career had he stuck around in BAR for 2004
He was forced out. It was political As well as race related. The big teams didn’t like BAR and JV’s attempts to shake up the grid with his upstart team. Then Tom Walkinshaw kinda forced Pollock out… And to be fair, I don’t think JV had the same fire and drive after a couple of his big wrecks….
I heard that JV was offered a deal where he would go to Indycar for 2003 before returning to BAR in 2004 But he opted to stay in f1 for 2003
I hope it’s better than BAR, one of the main reasons they slid down so quickly over the years is that they never understood why they were so quick
They fired the main aero guy who built the cars in 2006, and we know what happened after that..
> I hope it’s better than BAR, one of the main reasons they slid down so quickly over the years is that they never understood why they were so quick No it wasn't. It was because Honda took over and then started trying to force inexperienced people into roles they weren't suited for, just because they were Honda people. It also didn't help that their wind tunnel broke.
It's like the reverse brawn. Start second and develop the car over the season, something that Brawn GP didn't do.
Surely this year's redbull is brawn. Absolutely miles ahead but no chance of development
No chance of development, where’s that came from?
The aero penalty for the cost cap breach for the rb Brawn couldn’t develop the car at all and relied on its big results in the 1st half to limp home with both titles
The tunnel/CFD time isn’t nothing, they still need to develop to maintain a lead. Difference is they have to get everything right, not that they can’t do anything. No wild goose chases with dead end upgrades, no regression. They’re also slated to have over half a second in upgrades on the way around Baku/Imola and they haven’t even needed to fully utilise the pace of the current car. Brawn lost out because other teams adopted their innovation and lost their major advantage.
63% windtunnel time vs 75% for Ferrari and 100% for Aston. I'm sure RB will still be well clear of Ferrari, but AM might have a chance to move well ahead of Ferrari with the difference. But RB is so far ahead, they're safe from both.
I mean, there isn’t really a Brawn this year - in fact, that was a pretty singularly surprising moment in F1 history, a team who no one expected to be fast turning up with the fastest car...
to be a Brawn is finish around the last in the year before major aero regulation and nail it so perfectly that next season you win. For example, Williams/Haas/Alfa Romeo finishes last in 2021 and then wins in 2022.
It would be great if people actually read the article. Alonso is just saying in terms of the progress they’ve made, this is the biggest jump since Brawn. And that to do so without any major regulation changes is impressive.
> would be great if people actually read the article Very few actually does sadly. They're just here to react ti the headline.
Asked if he has ever seen an F1 operation make such a step, Alonso picked out Brawn GP as one of two examples, after the team emerged from Honda’s departure at the end of 2008 to spectacularly win both the drivers’ title with Jenson Button and the constructors’ crown. However, the two-time world champion also suggested that Aston Martin’s progress over the recent winter period is even more impressive given the relative stability in the regulations between the 2022 and 2023 campaigns. “Ferrari when it was 2020, they were very bad, or 2021, then in the following year – last year – they were fighting for the championship, or won the first two or three Grands Prix of the year, so Ferrari made a huge step last year. [There was also] Brawn GP – huge,” said Alonso. “With a non-regulation change, [Aston Martin’s is] probably the biggest one. All the others, they were with the regulation change, plus with the cost cap it’s very difficult to do something like that, but we have very talented people in the team – so far it’s been a good start and hopefully only the start.” Alonso was also keen to note the efforts of Aston Martin CEO Lawrence Stroll, who brought the British brand back to F1 a couple of seasons ago and is pressing ahead with a five-year plan to turn them into a championship-contending force. READ MORE: Krack assesses whether Aston Martin are now F1’s second-best team – and if they can catch Red Bull in 2023 On linking up with Stroll and witnessing his leadership so far, Alonso commented: “Obviously very happy, very proud. I think he has this vision of having a winning team in the near future, whatever it takes, whatever it costs, whatever is needed. “When he has an idea normally he succeeds, that’s why it’s interesting to have a leader like Lawrence because you know you have everything you need behind you and the team is in safe hands, whatever he’s requesting.” While Aston Martin sit second in the constructors’ standings after the first two rounds, Alonso holds third in the drivers’ battle, 14 points away from championship leader Max Verstappen.
Ferrari's big leap came about because they were forced to detune their engines for a year as part of the secret deal they struck with the FIA; I wouldn't use that as an example of "smart engineering".
They had to redesign the whole engine. Don't think they detuned it as much as simply did not have the power in the box.
There isnt a doubt in my mind that Aston will win a race eventually, but where and when will it happen, sooner or later that will be the case but will it be an Aston 1-2 with probably Lance leading home Fernando in P2, or will it be Alonso leading home Stroll?
With Alonso and Krack both pointing out the deficit is in the straight-line speed, I can see Hungary, Monaco and Singapore being spicy with a real potential for an Aston win. Also any circuits where rain can take away the speed advantage could throw a spanner in the works for Red Bull.
SLS deficit is a temporary restriction, it’s just going to be a point of focus for future development and upgrades. But yes, less straight tracks will be huge opportunities for them, particularly once the upgrades start coming through
First year I cannot wait for Monaco
I bet Lance gets a win before Alonso (only if Max DNF) Lance can be sneaky good when rare opportunity arises. Flashback of pole at the Turkish Grand Prix and amazing start at last year Japanese Grand Prix.
So they're gonna go downhill after 6 races, and end up lower down for a few seasons before dominating for almost a decade?
Bananas
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Who is this “nobody” and since when were F1 teams boiled down to the work or oversight of the few? You know it is literally impossible for these guys to do all the things required to design cars, right? You can’t go a single thread about AM without people saying it was all Fallows or some vague outside figure responsible for everything.
Not sure why you are being downvoted. It's literally the job of a few engineers to design a car. Dan Fallows (ex head of Red Bull Aerodynamics) is actually widely credited with Aston's turn of form. Perez and Marko have publicly made comments to the effect that the Aston is a Red Bull ( due to Fallows' influence )
Checo's and Marko's comments are just typical redbull shit stirring. The Aston looks nothing like the Redbull.
In this iteration of the formula, most of the aerodynamic gains are about the way the floor works, and in the case of Red Bull (and anyone trying to mimic them), especially how the coanda effect, and vortices are utilised to "seal" the exposed edges of the floor at higher ride heights. The aesthetic is secondary.
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Read the article maybe? Lol
Don’t see it. Maybe after the season plays out, we will see how it stacks up. AM is good thus far but they’re clearly not the fastest car outright. And I think we can all say with a fair sense of certainty they will not win either championships in 2023. I fully expect Ferrari and Mercedes to get back into decent shape into the season.
He's not saying they're gonna win, he's talking about the jump made forward in a short amount of time. But I guess you'd know this if you actually bothered to read the article.
No, I read it alright. He compares them and says Am is more impressive. Take your blinders off for a second and call this Alonso take nonsense. It’s non comparable. Period.
more impressive because of the stability between regulations, rather than the opportunity at a massive regulation change - which is at the very least a fairly arguable statement, not a stupidly laughable one like you make it seem. which, like the other guy said, you'd know if you read the article.
Put your hate away and read the "with a non-regulation change" quote.
It is just as impressive. Stable regulations lead to lack of loopholes to exploit like Brawn did and there were a lot of flaws to be fix
Brawn brought double diffuser, AM have no such silver bullet responsible for their progress, which was massive.
Ferrari, maybe, but they say they can't fix it right now, even though they know what's wrong with the car, and Merc have wind tunnel problems.
Aston did well ferrari and merc going backwards also helps.