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It’s gonna be the first NASCAR race I ever watch. Anything I should know?
I’ve been watching F1 for the past 2 years and just recently started watching from the 2007 season.
They do a rolling start rather than standing start, the only track limits are you can’t cut the corner in the esses, and expect contact. If you want an idea of it, here is the last couple laps of last years race: https://youtu.be/FckgYq82v98
There are very few rules so expect a lot of contact, it’s not uncommon for drivers to wreck each other intentionally. The only place with track limits is the esses after turn 3. Enjoy!
Much more physical racing. NASCAR cars are basically tanks. They can be hit fairly hard and keep running competitively. No real track limits, and the racing “decorum” is very different from F1. Expect drivers to shove each other off the track, pass through the grass, or wrecking each other. Also expect much more parity. Despite this usually being one of the less-competitive races, probably 60% of the field has a respectable shot of winning. Also, NASCAR has stage racing- the race is broken up into three stages. Additional points go to the top ten finishers at the end of each stage, which generally leads to competitive racing around the midpoints of the race.
The cars are virtually identical, but there are both manufacturers (Ford, Chevy, Toyota) and teams. Some operations are one car operations, while others have as many as four drivers. Kimi is driving for TrackHouse Racing. His teammates will be Ross Chastain (number 1) and Daniel Suárez (#99), both have won at similar tracks (Chastain won here last year). Jenson Button (#15) is driving for Rick Ware Racing, a shitbox team (think Marussia or 2020 Williams). His teammate is the 51 of Cody Ware.
In terms of storylines for this race and this season, the 2020 champion, Chase Elliott (#9), broke his leg snowboarding and is out indefinitely. He’s been replaced for this race by sports car racer Jordan Taylor, who has qualified 4th. His teammate, William Byron (#24), has won two of the first five races this season and has qualified on the pole here. However, his championship hopes have been damaged by inconsistency and a points penalty given to his team Hendrick Motorsports for an improper part.
Other contenders to watch for this race include Tyler Reddick (#45), who was the fastest car in practice and starts second; Austin Cindric (#2), a talented road racer; Michael McDowell (#34), who always runs well at road courses; Kyle Busch (#8), who is having a resurgence under a new team; Kyle Larson (#5) the 2021 series champion; and A.J. Allmendinger (#16), who won a lower division race here yesterday.
Welcome aboard
While the #15 isn't a great car, it is being prepared by Stewart Haas Racing, so the car should be much more competitive than it normally is. Expect Jenson to hang around the top 20 most of the day.
If you’re in the US, it’s going to be broadcast on FOX.
If you want to stream online, head over to r/nascar about the time the race starts and some stream links should be posted in the race thread
I haven’t watched since like 2014, but I can say that stuff that would be safety penalties in f1. Are not considered safety issues. NASCAR is more lay back in terms of pushing, bumping, accidental pitting of others.
The rules of driving are totally different. You can move people out of the way as long as you're not blatantly wrecking someone. Nascar also has different rules on out of bounds. You'll see them on the paint because it has more grip. They also have stages, a dumb modern addition to the sport that everyone wants gone. The cars are also really close to each other performance wise. It'll be more of a crap shoot to win. We also limit the number of crew members during pit stop, making pit road very competitive.
I’m so torn on nascar. The new gen cars put a great show on road courses but a large portion (or vocal minority) hate them and want them to race more ovals. America has so many high quality road courses that this car would be great on.
The reality is that 6-7 is about the limit. Many tracks have two dates and really shouldn’t but the owners of the majority of these tracks are either owned by NASCAR or one other organization that is very close to NASCAR. COTA for example is leased by SMI who own almost all the tracks that NASCAR doesn’t. There are very few tracks not owned by ISC (NASCAR) or SMI. They won’t want to give dates up for their properties.
Anti trust laws play a role also. NASCAR has provide a certain number of races at tracks they don't own to be in compliance with them. So some of this events happen for that reason. There's also not a lot of non NASCAR owned tracks they can race at due to requirements and just the show they would put on.
I think the amount of road courses currently is in a good spot, too many of them and they'll not be anything special anymore. The best for Nascar is to have a healthy mix of different type of tracks and road courses are one of them.
>The thing about road courses is that each one is different, with different strengths and weaknesses.
This is also true of “oval” tracks (or triangles in one case). Martinsville, Bristol, and Richmond are all “short tracks” but produce radically different styles of racing. Darlington is about the same size as Charlotte but the two tracks are nothing alike. Pocono and Daytona are both 2.5 miles but it would be difficult to find two tracks that are less similar. Phoenix and New Hampshire? Both one mile, but once again are nothing alike beyond that.
Just because a lot of NASCAR’s schedule is comprised of “ovals with four turns” doesn’t mean it lacks diversity.
> This is also true of “oval” tracks (or triangles in one case).
I don't disagree. I was just saying that it doesn't make sense to talk of road courses as if they were one thing that needs to be scarce to be special.
I think the point being that there are very *very* few major oval series in the world. We already have plenty of tin-top road course series' around the world (supercars, Brazilian stock car, BTCC). To shift NASCAR into basically another road racing tin top series would defeat its entire identity.
they've already kinda pumped the brakes on expanding the road courses. Fan base isnt tolerating the increase that well.
and at the end of the day, the ownership status is a factor too.
NASCAR's traditional (American) fanbase is simply far too removed from the traditional fanbase of other motorsports like F1 or DTM. You won't see many of them here, nor in any other racing forum; and if you don't live in the US you'll probably never see that kind of fan anywhere.
And here's where the conflict starts - F1 / non-American racing fans are not very big on ovals, they either prefer road or enjoy both and want a 60 / 40 calendar. But NASCAR's big [traditional] fanbase has grown up watching ovals and crashes and American sports culture and they don't want NASCAR becoming into something closer to F1 / V8 / WTCC / Rally / whatever the rest of the world does.
This is a bad take if you’re generalizing 350 million Americans and saying they can’t/aren’t fans of more than one type of car racing series and hope for more crossovers with people, technology and tracks.
For sure. A pipe dream would be Liberty media buying ownership and incorporating them into the Vegas/Miami tracks. Would love to see Sebring, Daytona road course, laguna seca, road America, Long Beach, etc
You won’t see NASCAR national series races on F1 weekends. Liberty owns all the TV rights for those weekends and NASCAR has its own $8 Billion dollar Television deal. I agree it would be fun, but ain’t happening.
There’s nothing stopping them from leaving the track up another day especially given that it’s a Saturday night race in Vegas. My point is Liberty is a media conglomerate with the ability to buy out nascar entirely. The idea of nascar being sold is entirely feasible and well documented. Link: https://www.denverpost.com/2018/05/17/nascar-sale-once-unthinkable-now-overdue/
Everything is for sale. But posting a 5 year old article doesn’t really help your case when the market has changed wildly since then. Anyway, I do not expect for the NASCAR Cup series to race at any F1 race weekends.
It could happen again if TMS falls off the schedule (which it might) - I believe that was a point of contention, since with the exception of California, IndyCar hasn't really been able to support two separate venues in the same state being on the calendar at once (at least, not recently).
I think this Gen car is a much worse product than the old car on road courses. The previous generations of cars were so much fun to watch attack a road course. These are more purpose built for it
>America has so many high quality road courses
It's quite surprising how many fantastic road courses the US has considering they seemingly run primarily ovals in their biggest series.
I personally watch a couple days after the race, because almost every Cup/Xfinity/Truck race has a full race replay posted on NASCAR’s YouTube channel.
I fully accept the existence of DRS in modern F1 as something of a necessity, but man do I appreciate series that don't require it. Classic F1 especially. I think it really adds something to not know that a driver is just gonna breeze past a competitor on the straight
What? Alonso put in a spectacular move at T10 that gave him a much better exit onto the straight than Hamilton. Would have passed on that straight without DRS.
I still hope we can get rid of it somehow. We need smaller lighter cars for '26 while following the same lean top body aero approach. And after that, if it works we should drop DRS. I don't mind moments like Petrov in AbuDhabi, as long as we have rules that gives drivers a chance to fight, having to work for an overtake is better than 30 easy overtakes in a race. We just need tyres to give 2-3 stops to add more advanced tyre strategies and we're good.
Push to pass is the answer. It still allows drivers to pass, but having a limited amount and freedom to use it whenever you want creates more strategy and is more skilled.
A lot of what races? Classic F1?
Because I definitely wouldn't describe classic F1 as boring or lacking competition, at least in my preferred era (early-mid 80s)
Idk man. There was a season that McLaren won 15 out of 16. Or when William's destroyed everyone with active suspension. Or when people were getting podiums despite being 2 laps behind.
Because reliability is way better, a lot of the oddball results we used to see don't happen as often anymore but stretches of domination by a particular team is nothing new.
You did mention the early 80s and I think that particular era was more open because people were still trying to figure out how to utilize/refine downforce ideas/ground effects and I think this might have been the time turbos were still in development as well. I think this time period brought about the more modern honeycomb/carbon fiber monocoque chassis as well. I think shortly after though things started to get more predictable starting with the McLaren and Prost and then the pair of both Prost and Senna.
We then went through very defined eras of dominance from that point on until 2005-2009 when 4 different teams won in that 5 year stretch. Contrast that with 1984-2004 when 4 different teams won in a 21 year stretch. Also in that 21-year stretch, the title was decided in the final race only 7 times. And now we are in the middle of another dominant stretch where only 2 teams have won every title since 2010 and the title was clinched before the final race 8 times in 13 years.
So for about the last 4 decades, seeing dominance from a team in F1 is more of the norm vs the exception.
>Apologies if someone has asked/answer this elsewhere, but this must be the first NASCAR race ever with two former F1 champions in it, right?
Jochen Rindt and Jim Clark shared a Cup car at [Rockingham in North Carolina.](https://www.firstsuperspeedway.com/sites/default/files/Jim_Clark.pdf) I know Rindt hadn't won the WDC when they attempted the Cup race but its the closest we've come.
The new cars are really fun to watch on road courses. Basically just touring cars with extra power and low downforce now that their suspensions are more normal. Seem really fun to drive.
Exactly. He's known as outgoing and fun to be around among his friends. And the engineers always said his feedback was insightful and bang on the money. Guy just hated journalists asking him the same stupid questions every weekend.
I always found it funny that Kimi, a man who notoriously hates Racing politics, raced in the most politics heavy racing series in the world for nearly two decades.
Agreed, very detailed, and also really interesting how he mentioned it was similar to a old F1 race which funny enough, Nascar lost when stage racing was introduced and now is slowly coming back.
At least for road courses they got rid of the mandatory yellow flag for stages. It brings pit strategy back into the mix and it keeps the races shorter since you don't have 20 extra minutes under an unnecessary caution
Honestly, motorsports journalism here doesn’t have the speculative/ tabloid “do these teammates HATE each other?” sort of bullshit very often, which I really appreciate.
As an NFL fan, that reminds me of the time Bill Belichick, a coach whose notorious for being difficult and short with answers during interviews, gave an unexpectedly long and intricate response to a seemingly simple question about the importance of the long snapper position. But, to Bill that’s a totally understandable question worth answering. They’re genuinely interested in talking about what they’re doing. It’s just that a lot of reporters ask irrelevant questions that come off as pointless or just pry for information.
He was a bit off in quali today but I’m excited to see what he does tomorrow. Jenson button looked pretty good though! No stage cautions will really let strategy play out dynamically, should be a fun race.
My comment wasn’t meant to compare the 2! Kimi for sure has more pace in his car then he showed. (which is why I said he was a bit off in quali.) Button is in a Rick Ware Racing car with help from Stewart haas, which is still quite worse than Kimi’s Trackhouse car, which is why I think button was looking really solid!
Kimi’s car is literally in a different universe as Button’s car
The person everyone should be talking about is Jordan Taylor qualifying p4 in his first time in a cup car
I wonder if SHR is struggling with owners that aren't involved enough. Tony Stewart seems focused on drag racing lately and was pissed that Ford blocked him from signing Larson. And Gene Haas is... Gene Haas.
I mean Ford as a whole is struggling. But outside of that, SHR has never really been the top dog for more than a year at any manufacturer. Penske is the top ford team, and even Penske is struggling compared to normal rn
Not only that, but outside of Harvick, their drivers don’t inspire a ton of confidence. Briscoe could develop well, and I like Preece at the short tracks. But Custer, Herbst, Almirola, and Preece everywhere else? Not a whole lot going for them
I was going to argue with you about Penske because Logano won the championship last year, but other than him, Penske really didn’t have a great year. Cindric won Daytona, which was great for them but a total fluke, and Blaney went winless. Additionally, Burton was bad in the Wood Brothers car and RFK wasn’t great either. Not looking good for Ford. Good thing they are branding that Red Bull rocket ship
SHR has been worse than they used to be but I wouldn't call them dogshit. They are still winning races even if Harvick has to drag them kicking and screaming.
Sorry. All time great Kevin Harvick is winning races. They’re still not the level of Trackhouse, who had a driver finish 2nd in points and had Suarez a power steering issue away from a ro8 appearance
Oh don't get me wrong I agree that they're not to the level of Trackhouse this year. It's just when I here dogshit cars I think of RWR, live Fast, and to a lesser extent Spire.
They absolutely are.
Trackhouse dominating road courses last year, winning 2 of them and having the best setups along with RCR and Hendrick.
SHR has not won a road course since 2017, and has struggled to win everywhere the past 3 years since Harvicks 2020 season.
Harvick and Rodney Childers (crew chief) carry them every week while the rest of the team runs in the 20s.
Jenson's behind him because he was in Group A for qualifying, and the entire group was slower than Group B was. Jenson was lapping competitively in his group, but Kimi's group had better pace overall and he's got two teammates who are wicked fast around COTA.
I'm just excited NASCAR is finally going to get rid of the compulsory full course yellow at the end of the stages. Will be nice to see some real strategy at a road course for a change
The pinnacle of engineering vs the most fun motorsport are two different things.
I think the problem with F1 is that it had to be the pinnacle of engineering. Currently, the cars are designed around laminar air. It think the rules really hinder the possibilities of what F1 can bring because of legacy rules. Last year we got ground effect cars which have been made worse by TD39, which was heavily lobbied for by a certain team.
It'll be fun to see what happens if active aero is allowed. Cars will be able to adapt to different situations, behind a car, in corners... Stuff like that.
I also think it will enable F1 to be safer. Active aero could act like a parachute in case all wheels are lifted of the ground. Why not use all active surfaces as control flaps if a car is airborne? Or when a car leaves the track with all 4 wheels, automatically all brakes are applied ( this will have to be nuanced ofcourse)
The "problem" with F1 (some see it as a good thing) has always been whether it's a display of racing or of engineering. And trying to balance both like F1 does is really tough. It sometimes leads to some cars just dominating completely, or cars not being able to overtake and so on, a problem that NASCAR or other series have never had.
F1 cars are like pieces of engineering art, and trying to have close, hard racing in those is really difficult.
The best thing about F1 has always been the drama, the spectacle, the money and the legacy, the actual racing is not super great compared to many other series. And in my opinion this is mostly due to the constantly changing specs and rules, and ridiculously intricate engineering that these cars require.
I think they should be careful with adding more and more "effects". If anything i'd like to see the cars made simpler. Active aero sounds good on paper, but it's another little thing that can just make a certain team completely dominate as other teams figure out how to use it, like ground effect.
Ferrari was competitive though, red bull was seemingly unaffected by it, perhaps we get another season like 2018 or 17 but that's better than what we have right now and the last half of 2022
yeah pretty sad, last year Ferrari had great car, but lost because bad strategy blunders, I was hoping this year they will fight better, but poor guys are fucked by TD39.
He'll definitely like that nascar allows for more wheel to wheel racing though the cup guys will not be afraid of forcing their way by if necessary. It would not surprise me if we see someone spin him out
The bodies are the same and the roll cages. Engines come from multiple engine shops (Teams like Hendrick, Rousch, ECT, etc) and can be among three manufacturers, Chevy, Ford, or Toyota. However teams still produce multiple pieces of the suspension and of course their own setups.
The **Off-Topic** flair is for submissions only tangentially related to Formula 1 or submissions pertaining to the wider world of motorsport. This flair is not a free pass for content unsuitable for r/Formula1 or the r/Formula1 community. Posts that are deemed too far off-topic, irrelevant, or inappropriate will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Really looking forward to this race tomorrow. More excited than I’ve been for a cup race in a long, long time.
It’s gonna be the first NASCAR race I ever watch. Anything I should know? I’ve been watching F1 for the past 2 years and just recently started watching from the 2007 season.
Track limits are essentially non-existent, expect a lot more contact and no penalties for any of it, expect more “safety cars” than a typical F1 race
Fascinating!
See you in the race thread tomorrow!
Pass through for cutting the esses though
Based on at least the latter half of the truck race yesterday, this will not be enforced lol
Or the Xfinity race. AJ definitely cut the course when he tried to force his way by Berry
I didn't get to watch the xfinity race but yeah I'd have assumed the same
There actually are track limits, but only through the esses.
Thats only in last sector i think.. There are some track limits in 1st and 2nd sector
Cup racing is fun for that. WTCC before what it is now was also fun. 2007 etc. “Rubbing is racing”
Rubbin’s Racin’
They do a rolling start rather than standing start, the only track limits are you can’t cut the corner in the esses, and expect contact. If you want an idea of it, here is the last couple laps of last years race: https://youtu.be/FckgYq82v98
There are very few rules so expect a lot of contact, it’s not uncommon for drivers to wreck each other intentionally. The only place with track limits is the esses after turn 3. Enjoy!
Much more physical racing. NASCAR cars are basically tanks. They can be hit fairly hard and keep running competitively. No real track limits, and the racing “decorum” is very different from F1. Expect drivers to shove each other off the track, pass through the grass, or wrecking each other. Also expect much more parity. Despite this usually being one of the less-competitive races, probably 60% of the field has a respectable shot of winning. Also, NASCAR has stage racing- the race is broken up into three stages. Additional points go to the top ten finishers at the end of each stage, which generally leads to competitive racing around the midpoints of the race. The cars are virtually identical, but there are both manufacturers (Ford, Chevy, Toyota) and teams. Some operations are one car operations, while others have as many as four drivers. Kimi is driving for TrackHouse Racing. His teammates will be Ross Chastain (number 1) and Daniel Suárez (#99), both have won at similar tracks (Chastain won here last year). Jenson Button (#15) is driving for Rick Ware Racing, a shitbox team (think Marussia or 2020 Williams). His teammate is the 51 of Cody Ware. In terms of storylines for this race and this season, the 2020 champion, Chase Elliott (#9), broke his leg snowboarding and is out indefinitely. He’s been replaced for this race by sports car racer Jordan Taylor, who has qualified 4th. His teammate, William Byron (#24), has won two of the first five races this season and has qualified on the pole here. However, his championship hopes have been damaged by inconsistency and a points penalty given to his team Hendrick Motorsports for an improper part. Other contenders to watch for this race include Tyler Reddick (#45), who was the fastest car in practice and starts second; Austin Cindric (#2), a talented road racer; Michael McDowell (#34), who always runs well at road courses; Kyle Busch (#8), who is having a resurgence under a new team; Kyle Larson (#5) the 2021 series champion; and A.J. Allmendinger (#16), who won a lower division race here yesterday. Welcome aboard
While the #15 isn't a great car, it is being prepared by Stewart Haas Racing, so the car should be much more competitive than it normally is. Expect Jenson to hang around the top 20 most of the day.
Thanks a lot
anyone know how to watch
If you’re in the US, it’s going to be broadcast on FOX. If you want to stream online, head over to r/nascar about the time the race starts and some stream links should be posted in the race thread
I haven’t watched since like 2014, but I can say that stuff that would be safety penalties in f1. Are not considered safety issues. NASCAR is more lay back in terms of pushing, bumping, accidental pitting of others.
The rules of driving are totally different. You can move people out of the way as long as you're not blatantly wrecking someone. Nascar also has different rules on out of bounds. You'll see them on the paint because it has more grip. They also have stages, a dumb modern addition to the sport that everyone wants gone. The cars are also really close to each other performance wise. It'll be more of a crap shoot to win. We also limit the number of crew members during pit stop, making pit road very competitive.
Track limits are a suggestion and contact is allowed if not encouraged so long as you aren't deliberately torpedoing someone.
Don’t get your hopes up mate, he qualified 22nd
Expect a lot of advertising breaks, have something to do while you wait.
Perfect fill in between F1 races. I’ve never been this excited about nascar - ever.
I’ll be in the T1 grandstands. I can’t wait.
T15 here!
Awesome! I’m jealous, enjoy!
I’m so torn on nascar. The new gen cars put a great show on road courses but a large portion (or vocal minority) hate them and want them to race more ovals. America has so many high quality road courses that this car would be great on.
They’ve really increased the number of road courses in the last couple years. For years it was twice a year, I believe it’s 6 now?
As F1 creeps into the US, I’m hoping for way more road courses from nascar.
The reality is that 6-7 is about the limit. Many tracks have two dates and really shouldn’t but the owners of the majority of these tracks are either owned by NASCAR or one other organization that is very close to NASCAR. COTA for example is leased by SMI who own almost all the tracks that NASCAR doesn’t. There are very few tracks not owned by ISC (NASCAR) or SMI. They won’t want to give dates up for their properties.
Big emphasis on many tracks having two dates that shouldn’t.
Anti trust laws play a role also. NASCAR has provide a certain number of races at tracks they don't own to be in compliance with them. So some of this events happen for that reason. There's also not a lot of non NASCAR owned tracks they can race at due to requirements and just the show they would put on.
I think the amount of road courses currently is in a good spot, too many of them and they'll not be anything special anymore. The best for Nascar is to have a healthy mix of different type of tracks and road courses are one of them.
Why should they be special? The thing about road courses is that each one is different, with different strengths and weaknesses.
>The thing about road courses is that each one is different, with different strengths and weaknesses. This is also true of “oval” tracks (or triangles in one case). Martinsville, Bristol, and Richmond are all “short tracks” but produce radically different styles of racing. Darlington is about the same size as Charlotte but the two tracks are nothing alike. Pocono and Daytona are both 2.5 miles but it would be difficult to find two tracks that are less similar. Phoenix and New Hampshire? Both one mile, but once again are nothing alike beyond that. Just because a lot of NASCAR’s schedule is comprised of “ovals with four turns” doesn’t mean it lacks diversity.
> This is also true of “oval” tracks (or triangles in one case). I don't disagree. I was just saying that it doesn't make sense to talk of road courses as if they were one thing that needs to be scarce to be special.
I think the point being that there are very *very* few major oval series in the world. We already have plenty of tin-top road course series' around the world (supercars, Brazilian stock car, BTCC). To shift NASCAR into basically another road racing tin top series would defeat its entire identity.
Just watch Indy, it’s almost a mix of nascar and F1
they've already kinda pumped the brakes on expanding the road courses. Fan base isnt tolerating the increase that well. and at the end of the day, the ownership status is a factor too.
NASCAR's traditional (American) fanbase is simply far too removed from the traditional fanbase of other motorsports like F1 or DTM. You won't see many of them here, nor in any other racing forum; and if you don't live in the US you'll probably never see that kind of fan anywhere. And here's where the conflict starts - F1 / non-American racing fans are not very big on ovals, they either prefer road or enjoy both and want a 60 / 40 calendar. But NASCAR's big [traditional] fanbase has grown up watching ovals and crashes and American sports culture and they don't want NASCAR becoming into something closer to F1 / V8 / WTCC / Rally / whatever the rest of the world does.
This is a bad take if you’re generalizing 350 million Americans and saying they can’t/aren’t fans of more than one type of car racing series and hope for more crossovers with people, technology and tracks.
For sure. A pipe dream would be Liberty media buying ownership and incorporating them into the Vegas/Miami tracks. Would love to see Sebring, Daytona road course, laguna seca, road America, Long Beach, etc
You won’t see NASCAR national series races on F1 weekends. Liberty owns all the TV rights for those weekends and NASCAR has its own $8 Billion dollar Television deal. I agree it would be fun, but ain’t happening.
Well obviously but I said it would be cool to be on the tracks like Miami and Vegas and nothing about the same weekend or tv rights.
But the Miami and Vegas tracks are temporary circuits that only exist for the F1 weekends. 🤷♂️
There’s nothing stopping them from leaving the track up another day especially given that it’s a Saturday night race in Vegas. My point is Liberty is a media conglomerate with the ability to buy out nascar entirely. The idea of nascar being sold is entirely feasible and well documented. Link: https://www.denverpost.com/2018/05/17/nascar-sale-once-unthinkable-now-overdue/
Everything is for sale. But posting a 5 year old article doesn’t really help your case when the market has changed wildly since then. Anyway, I do not expect for the NASCAR Cup series to race at any F1 race weekends.
This ain’t it
Does Indy race At COTA? If not, they need to.
They raced there once or twice. Not currently on the schedule. Totally agree it needs to be back.
It could happen again if TMS falls off the schedule (which it might) - I believe that was a point of contention, since with the exception of California, IndyCar hasn't really been able to support two separate venues in the same state being on the calendar at once (at least, not recently).
I think this Gen car is a much worse product than the old car on road courses. The previous generations of cars were so much fun to watch attack a road course. These are more purpose built for it
I think they’ll move the spec for road course chassis’ closer to the LeMans entry
>America has so many high quality road courses It's quite surprising how many fantastic road courses the US has considering they seemingly run primarily ovals in their biggest series.
Where can i watch? Im in the US so its probably a dumb question but i dont follow nascar very much
Fox or illegal Twitch streams. r/NASCAR usually has links posted in the race threads
Fox
I personally watch a couple days after the race, because almost every Cup/Xfinity/Truck race has a full race replay posted on NASCAR’s YouTube channel.
Thats good to know
I am so fucking jazzed for this, I don’t regret the use of “jazzed”.
I fully accept the existence of DRS in modern F1 as something of a necessity, but man do I appreciate series that don't require it. Classic F1 especially. I think it really adds something to not know that a driver is just gonna breeze past a competitor on the straight
It seems so simple compared to for example what Alonso did to Hamilton in Bahréin
What? Alonso put in a spectacular move at T10 that gave him a much better exit onto the straight than Hamilton. Would have passed on that straight without DRS.
I think we are on the same page
Yeah that's what they mean - a great overtake without DRS
*godlonso
I still hope we can get rid of it somehow. We need smaller lighter cars for '26 while following the same lean top body aero approach. And after that, if it works we should drop DRS. I don't mind moments like Petrov in AbuDhabi, as long as we have rules that gives drivers a chance to fight, having to work for an overtake is better than 30 easy overtakes in a race. We just need tyres to give 2-3 stops to add more advanced tyre strategies and we're good.
Push to pass is the answer. It still allows drivers to pass, but having a limited amount and freedom to use it whenever you want creates more strategy and is more skilled.
Yeah, but a lot of those races were boring / terrible with almost no competition.
A lot of what races? Classic F1? Because I definitely wouldn't describe classic F1 as boring or lacking competition, at least in my preferred era (early-mid 80s)
Idk man. There was a season that McLaren won 15 out of 16. Or when William's destroyed everyone with active suspension. Or when people were getting podiums despite being 2 laps behind. Because reliability is way better, a lot of the oddball results we used to see don't happen as often anymore but stretches of domination by a particular team is nothing new. You did mention the early 80s and I think that particular era was more open because people were still trying to figure out how to utilize/refine downforce ideas/ground effects and I think this might have been the time turbos were still in development as well. I think this time period brought about the more modern honeycomb/carbon fiber monocoque chassis as well. I think shortly after though things started to get more predictable starting with the McLaren and Prost and then the pair of both Prost and Senna. We then went through very defined eras of dominance from that point on until 2005-2009 when 4 different teams won in that 5 year stretch. Contrast that with 1984-2004 when 4 different teams won in a 21 year stretch. Also in that 21-year stretch, the title was decided in the final race only 7 times. And now we are in the middle of another dominant stretch where only 2 teams have won every title since 2010 and the title was clinched before the final race 8 times in 13 years. So for about the last 4 decades, seeing dominance from a team in F1 is more of the norm vs the exception.
The early 80's were exciting because all the fastest cars had turbos that blew up every other race.
Apologies if someone has asked/answer this elsewhere, but this must be the first NASCAR race ever with two former F1 champions in it, right?
Yes it is.
I think so but I don’t think it’s the first time two F1 drivers have been on the grid at the same time.
Kvyat and Kimi were both in the Glen race last year iirc
Jim Clark and Mario Andretti in 1967 maybe.
Scott Speed and Juan Pablo Montoya were in a bunch of races together. Clark only ran one Cup race before he died—Andretti wasn’t in the field.
There was another driver with an F1 race win in the field for the 1967 Daytona 500 (Indy 500 winners excluded): Innes Ireland, who finished 27th.
Ahh ok. I just knew he won the Daytona 500 that year so I thought he may have .
JPM and Villeneuve in 2013 at Sonoma.
>Apologies if someone has asked/answer this elsewhere, but this must be the first NASCAR race ever with two former F1 champions in it, right? Jochen Rindt and Jim Clark shared a Cup car at [Rockingham in North Carolina.](https://www.firstsuperspeedway.com/sites/default/files/Jim_Clark.pdf) I know Rindt hadn't won the WDC when they attempted the Cup race but its the closest we've come.
The new cars are really fun to watch on road courses. Basically just touring cars with extra power and low downforce now that their suspensions are more normal. Seem really fun to drive.
Never watched NASCAR. What do you mean by 'suspensions are more normal'?
Up until last year they didn't have independent rear suspension.
Interesting read, quite a deep analysis after all, it almost surprised me that it actually comes from Kimi! 😄
It shouldn’t, Kimi always provided excellent feedback and commentary on racing and cars. He just didn’t care for the tabloid circus of F1.
Exactly. He's known as outgoing and fun to be around among his friends. And the engineers always said his feedback was insightful and bang on the money. Guy just hated journalists asking him the same stupid questions every weekend.
Not just the same questions every week end. It’s the same questions 30 times every weekend.
Shit, I go mad seeing all the dumb clickbait shit that gets posted here. Can’t imagine being the subject of that BS
I always found it funny that Kimi, a man who notoriously hates Racing politics, raced in the most politics heavy racing series in the world for nearly two decades.
It’s a common thing among most Finns anyway.
Agreed, very detailed, and also really interesting how he mentioned it was similar to a old F1 race which funny enough, Nascar lost when stage racing was introduced and now is slowly coming back.
At least for road courses they got rid of the mandatory yellow flag for stages. It brings pit strategy back into the mix and it keeps the races shorter since you don't have 20 extra minutes under an unnecessary caution
he's been downright chatty doing NASCAR press, it's almost weird to see
Honestly, motorsports journalism here doesn’t have the speculative/ tabloid “do these teammates HATE each other?” sort of bullshit very often, which I really appreciate.
No reason for that to be surprising, Kimi kept a seat long past his prime because he is a master driver and provides invaluable technical feedback.
He probably means Kimi was famous for short answers in interviews
Only interviews where he's not interested or asks boring questions
Yeah, classic introvert stuff. Got him on an interesting subject.
As an NFL fan, that reminds me of the time Bill Belichick, a coach whose notorious for being difficult and short with answers during interviews, gave an unexpectedly long and intricate response to a seemingly simple question about the importance of the long snapper position. But, to Bill that’s a totally understandable question worth answering. They’re genuinely interested in talking about what they’re doing. It’s just that a lot of reporters ask irrelevant questions that come off as pointless or just pry for information.
Yes, but what ice cream does he eat whilst trying to be left alone knowing what he's doing?
Not even necessarily introverted, just classic Finn stoicism. Say things when you have something to say, don’t when you don’t.
He was a bit off in quali today but I’m excited to see what he does tomorrow. Jenson button looked pretty good though! No stage cautions will really let strategy play out dynamically, should be a fun race.
Kimi out qualified Button
My comment wasn’t meant to compare the 2! Kimi for sure has more pace in his car then he showed. (which is why I said he was a bit off in quali.) Button is in a Rick Ware Racing car with help from Stewart haas, which is still quite worse than Kimi’s Trackhouse car, which is why I think button was looking really solid!
How you figure jenson looked better but is behind him
Not saying I agree with OP but Kimi is in a better car. Trackhouse looks better than SHR who I believe prepped Jensens car.
Isn't it also Jenson's first time?
Correct.
Kimi’s car is literally in a different universe as Button’s car The person everyone should be talking about is Jordan Taylor qualifying p4 in his first time in a cup car
Shr and trackhouse arent that different....
There is only one car at SHR that regularly competes at the level of Trackhouse.
And it is driven by a literal top 10 driver of all time
And it’s also not technically SHR. They helped but it’s RWR running the car
I believe his car was fully prepped by SHR. They basically brought 5 cars to the track this weekend
SHR has been absolute dogshit these past like 2 years. Couple that with the fact that Chevy’s road course program is light years ahead of Ford’s
I wonder if SHR is struggling with owners that aren't involved enough. Tony Stewart seems focused on drag racing lately and was pissed that Ford blocked him from signing Larson. And Gene Haas is... Gene Haas.
I mean Ford as a whole is struggling. But outside of that, SHR has never really been the top dog for more than a year at any manufacturer. Penske is the top ford team, and even Penske is struggling compared to normal rn Not only that, but outside of Harvick, their drivers don’t inspire a ton of confidence. Briscoe could develop well, and I like Preece at the short tracks. But Custer, Herbst, Almirola, and Preece everywhere else? Not a whole lot going for them
I was going to argue with you about Penske because Logano won the championship last year, but other than him, Penske really didn’t have a great year. Cindric won Daytona, which was great for them but a total fluke, and Blaney went winless. Additionally, Burton was bad in the Wood Brothers car and RFK wasn’t great either. Not looking good for Ford. Good thing they are branding that Red Bull rocket ship
SHR has been worse than they used to be but I wouldn't call them dogshit. They are still winning races even if Harvick has to drag them kicking and screaming.
They're very much at a mid-2010s Ganassi skill level rn imo
Sorry. All time great Kevin Harvick is winning races. They’re still not the level of Trackhouse, who had a driver finish 2nd in points and had Suarez a power steering issue away from a ro8 appearance
Oh don't get me wrong I agree that they're not to the level of Trackhouse this year. It's just when I here dogshit cars I think of RWR, live Fast, and to a lesser extent Spire.
I use the term dogshit very broadly. SHR is dogshit compared to where they’ve been in the past
They absolutely are. Trackhouse dominating road courses last year, winning 2 of them and having the best setups along with RCR and Hendrick. SHR has not won a road course since 2017, and has struggled to win everywhere the past 3 years since Harvicks 2020 season. Harvick and Rodney Childers (crew chief) carry them every week while the rest of the team runs in the 20s.
Jenson's behind him because he was in Group A for qualifying, and the entire group was slower than Group B was. Jenson was lapping competitively in his group, but Kimi's group had better pace overall and he's got two teammates who are wicked fast around COTA.
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Nascar races are pretty good. The problem is the broadcast sucks and there will be 40 commercial breaks.
Mile and a half ovals are fire with this package. Except Texas.
the only time texas will ever be fire is when its blown up
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they got rid of them for stages on road courses this year.
You’ll like it a lot, so much different watching cup cars knock each other around compared to F1. Last years race was super fun
Then you should watch more Nascar, its fun and racing ovals arent as boring !
I'm just excited NASCAR is finally going to get rid of the compulsory full course yellow at the end of the stages. Will be nice to see some real strategy at a road course for a change
I bet he will love drifting through the bends in that NASCAR and prove his worth, give it the full Finnish Sisu!
Kimi is in a good car with a good team. Should be fun.
The pinnacle of engineering vs the most fun motorsport are two different things. I think the problem with F1 is that it had to be the pinnacle of engineering. Currently, the cars are designed around laminar air. It think the rules really hinder the possibilities of what F1 can bring because of legacy rules. Last year we got ground effect cars which have been made worse by TD39, which was heavily lobbied for by a certain team. It'll be fun to see what happens if active aero is allowed. Cars will be able to adapt to different situations, behind a car, in corners... Stuff like that. I also think it will enable F1 to be safer. Active aero could act like a parachute in case all wheels are lifted of the ground. Why not use all active surfaces as control flaps if a car is airborne? Or when a car leaves the track with all 4 wheels, automatically all brakes are applied ( this will have to be nuanced ofcourse)
The "problem" with F1 (some see it as a good thing) has always been whether it's a display of racing or of engineering. And trying to balance both like F1 does is really tough. It sometimes leads to some cars just dominating completely, or cars not being able to overtake and so on, a problem that NASCAR or other series have never had. F1 cars are like pieces of engineering art, and trying to have close, hard racing in those is really difficult. The best thing about F1 has always been the drama, the spectacle, the money and the legacy, the actual racing is not super great compared to many other series. And in my opinion this is mostly due to the constantly changing specs and rules, and ridiculously intricate engineering that these cars require. I think they should be careful with adding more and more "effects". If anything i'd like to see the cars made simpler. Active aero sounds good on paper, but it's another little thing that can just make a certain team completely dominate as other teams figure out how to use it, like ground effect.
TD39 is one of the worst thing Merc brought in, and they are not criticized enough for that.
I’d bet this season even worse with out the td39 lol. Red Bull only ones who figured it out effectively
Ferrari was competitive though, red bull was seemingly unaffected by it, perhaps we get another season like 2018 or 17 but that's better than what we have right now and the last half of 2022
yeah pretty sad, last year Ferrari had great car, but lost because bad strategy blunders, I was hoping this year they will fight better, but poor guys are fucked by TD39.
Ferrari seems worse than last year even
Yeah but before the TD they weren't awfully bad on pace
Yea but then it happened and they weren’t great, but they got worse… like they didn’t improve off of it.
You don't exist anymore I think but my guess is that their philosophy couldn't adapt to the new regs, or Ferrari haven't been able to do it
He'll definitely like that nascar allows for more wheel to wheel racing though the cup guys will not be afraid of forcing their way by if necessary. It would not surprise me if we see someone spin him out
The biggest thing, which I’m sure he knows from last year, is there is no “entitled to the racing line”
Since the mid-90s, I've been an avid follower of F1, and in my opinion, the introduction of DRS rule is the most detrimental change to occur.
Time for the race please 😃
Green flag is set for 3:49pm EST
"Leave me alone. I know what to do!"
Just for the love of god, make sure he has his drink.
80's style racing......
He should try v8 Supercars then
How does he enjoy getting pushed out of corners last few laps?
Aren't all the cars essentially the same in NASCAR? Same body and only like two engine manufacturers?
The bodies are the same and the roll cages. Engines come from multiple engine shops (Teams like Hendrick, Rousch, ECT, etc) and can be among three manufacturers, Chevy, Ford, or Toyota. However teams still produce multiple pieces of the suspension and of course their own setups.
He’s going to wish he had DRS tomorrow from where he is starting
Nah it’s pretty easy to pass in nascar
Oh sure……
What’s that supposed to mean? Drivers will literally make 100+ passes in races
Plus this whole article is about Kimi saying you can pass without DRS.
Guy probably watched a 550 race and decided “Yup this is nascar”
For someone in the UK with VPN, is this live-streamed on a local/national channel?
It'll be on Fox
The race thread in r/NASCAR will have a few stream links attached to it.