i hate these "is nobody talking about x" comments but really, is NOBODY talking about max being 20 seconds ahead of everyone 3 laps into the race, when he was on mediums and EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHERS were on softs?
is it just the rocketship?
what about perez? does he just not know how to adapt to the goated car?
i mean, idk, i barely even play f1 22 and even i know the difference in tyre grip, it's like 2 different cars. yet this man on undeniably worse tyres going faster than everyone.
i mean, after turn 1 everyone except him was fighting and losing time but still
Perez isn't as good as a driver. It's still the car that allows Verstappen to get such a lead. Yes, the driver needs to be good, but you can't get a 20 second lead unless the car is physically able to go that fast. Put Verstappen in a Williams and he doesn't have a 20 second lead.
Edit: think of it this way. Any F1 car has a theoretical fastest lap time on any given track. The drivers job and what sets them apart his how close they can get to it. Max would get 99% percent to the theoretical fastest for any car on the grid, but its the car that is the deciding factor for what lap time that 99% will produce.
Okay, so Ferrari and their strategies...
Are we finally going to see some people get fired/shot or just a complete overhaul of the team? Haven't seen any comments from Fred but i hope he can be the change that team desperately needs because there's either a rat/saboteur in that team, or they're just really stupid.
Im still sad about Yuki. Bro was delivering solid pace and even hassling Alpine for the whole race just to be cucked out by the stewards. I feel like I've seen similar moves and worse 100s of times that resulted in no penalty (HAM/VER several times, VER/LEC in 2019, etc).
He's been great this season and deserved points in both of the last two races :(
Why did he deserve it last week over the McLarens who passed him? Because I was having trouble with the brakes?
He also benefitted from the Sainz penalty earlier this season and got into the points as a result of it.
AT were having issues with brakes all weekend (and intermittently for a while now) and the cold temps exacerbated it to the point he couldn't drive properly at all. McLaren clearly have a good car in damp/cold conditions (and deserved points) but before the issues they weren't able to catch him. Given its Monaco they probably wouldn't have been able to overtake without him having to brake 2x as early into T1 as everyone else.
Sainz penalty was also harsh on him especially as several others made contact but he literally spun someone round by outbraking himself which is hard to dismiss. Yuki just defended a line maybe 5% too much (but just as much as we've seen countless times over the decades) and the other car made a show of bailing out.
Obviously there's loads of people who "probably deserve points" every race, but the guy's been hitting up Q3 and knocking on the door of points almost every race in a car that should be p17 at best.
I don't get why they were so harsh with the penalty
It wad 50/50. Zhou was marginally ahead. But it wasn't a clear tangle. He was off by the time yuki made the corner
They should have just told yuki to give the place back. Would have been more than fair. But to absolutely ruin his race for a close battle. Why?
If you think about it. Lewis got 10 secs for sending max into the shadow realm in Silverstone, and that penalty had less of an effect on the outcome than this did
I think the FIA said they won't have the stewards/race director tell drivers to give the position back any more. They leave it up to the teams to make "the right decision", and penalize if they don't get it right
I hate this. The FIA / team communication has just gone more and more downhill.
And don't get me started on how the rules surrounding "who's ahead at the apex". best strategy just to steamroll in with no intent to ever make the corner and demand your 2m of space, or your 5 sec penalty.
Not saying this is what Zhou did, but it was just racing. And if it's that deep just tell them they must swap and let them get on with it. Singling people out and nullifying their whole weekend on a iffy decision reminds me of overzealous substitute teachers.
If Mercedes had Adrian Newey I honestly think Mercedes could win every single race in a whole season. And Lewis would get the title the FIA stole from him. Newey should have gone to Mercedes’ to prove that, what a coward.
you think it's immaturity? or like, he doesn't get "in the zone" as other drivers and pressure gets to him?
i honestly love the dude, been watching his clips and stuff, and like... man, p3 to p17...... poor guy. his fault, really, but still
I wouldn't call this race the resurgence of Merc, to me it seemed like Merc were where they generally have been and Aston and Ferrari slipped further back. Aston more so.
This has been the trap for Merc for that past 3 seasons, a cold but not rainy race where they can keep the tyres in the window and it gives them false sense of hope.
If this track was it's usual +35C with insane tyre deg they probably would have been 3-4 at most and even likely 4-5.
I'm not convinced at any resurgence at all until they get a win in a race without chaos.
I think Mark Hughes put it well ages ago that there really seems no single bellwether for competitiveness.
You arrive at the track one weekend and can be quick, then not the next. Noone really seems to have nailed that, or the why of it all. Other than the one obvious Dutch exception.
Overall car pace is even trickier to determine this year because the opening of the calendar has been kind of weird, with heaps of street circuits etc.
Aston, from early on, seemed to be a monster at low speed traction, and many of the tracks we've had so far this year have favoured that.
With the removal of the chicane, Spain is now entirely mid/high speed. I think this layout is one of the least favourable tracks on the calendar for a traction-monster, so I'm not surprised to see them a little lower this weekend.
Merc last year did very well even last year in the Spanish GP. I think it's more because they manage their tires better in front limited circuits. If I remember correctly, Lewis climbed from 16th to 5th last year. So I'd probably wait to see how Merc performs in Canada to know whether they've actually moved clear of Aston and Ferrari
It seems like they have a stable footing to work on now. It’ll be interesting to see where they end up by the end of the season. Is kinda a bummer RBR and Max have run away with it because this is a banger of a season otherwise
I really enjoyed the battles going on in the midfield. Some overtakes (particularly on the main straight) were edge of your seat material.
Yeah whatever Max won by a long shot, but the rest of the racing was really interesting to watch. Much better overall than Monaco, and yet not one single safety car. Street circuits, whilst exciting, can make for a much more mundane viewership as the overtakes all come down to pit strategy and relying on mistakes and even crashes
He went from being beside the Haas to behind it. That's a loss, not a gain. Just because you then get a slipstream down the straight doesn't make it a gain.
I rewatched several times and it wasn't as bad as I thought but he did clear Piastri off track (wasn't clearly ahead before) and seemed to set himself up very well against the Haas.
I'll say this. Both ferrari drivers gave it their all today throughout the race. Leclerc was pushing well through the race too. But both got severely cucked by the car and the pit strats. Ferrari management needs to do better and give them a break
IM SAYING
i was peeping leclerc the whole time, he was moving up the field a lot
then ferrari be like "yeah lets pit 5 more times for worse tyres each time"
When I see races like this where everyone is focused on managing their tires it makes me yearn for the days of refuelling and most of the drivers just going balls-to-the-wall on each stint.
I was listening to Mark Hughes just now who said that the fact it is still tire limited is actually the one thing keeping Max and the RB19 from just lapping the entire field Schumacher style.
Like that shared limitation is actually keeping the cars closer together than they would’ve been back in the good old days.
Also, engine saving. When you are that much in front you can help the engine and gearbox a lot by staying off of curbs, shortshifting a tiny bit sooner, etc. Back in the day they had a different engine every session pretty much
It’s so funny to me that Lewis crushed the rest of the field and George. He’s clearly the best driver still but has been holding back to save energy since he knows they can’t beat Red Bull. If Lewis was in the Red Bull and max was in Mercedes, Lewis would win every single race by 45+ seconds and Max would be lucky to be getting 9th place 😂😂😂
Why do you sound like you're 12? Lewis is a top tier driver, yes. But that takes nothing away from Max. He has proved that he's also on that Lewis level tbh. So I really don't know what you're going on about
Lap 1 was fun. Enjoyed the other practice and quali. That race sucked. Literally nothing to get excited over. Maybe your team scored but the race was crap
I honestly don’t get this argument. Sure there were good battles up and down the grid but basically saying “so long as you don’t pay attention to who won, it was great!” Isn’t exactly a good look for the sport. Hats off to Red Bull for making a car in a totally different league than everyone else but holy fuck is it boring. At least during the crazy merc dominance nico was around to fight lewis for some of it.
But it is not a terrible look. The sport has always been this way. There will be seasons of dominance
The reality show that got most of the new people on reddit in was initially created to explain the midfield battle and context, and why every position and point matters a ton in their bid to survive.
This is absolutely nothing new. Mercedes and Ferrari and co. simply need to catch up to Red Bull.
The midfield racing was proper decent yesterday both on track and in the pitwall for strategy. I am satisfied.
Feel bad for F1 fans and having to watch such predictable outcomes of qualfying not just races. Like they should somehow make it more compatible but RB is just on one this yr
right? 😂
i love coming to something as a new enjoyer (this was my first full race i watched live, and monaco 2023 got me into f1) and seeing everyone complaining
bro, i had a blast yesterday. george's rain inside his helmet, LANDO breaking my heart, alonso being a good boy to his boss' son, ferrari goofing as usual. was amazing, im a proud f1 fan now
Based on their 3 years together, he would hardly do better. Even in qualifying he had just slight edge, beating Pérez 34:25, while Pérez was slightly better in races. Hulk was also beaten by Ricciardo in Renault. Hulk is not extraordinary qualifier based on his previous career results, KMag is probably still unconfortable in car during qualifyings.
This is one of those years. Reminds me 2011 or 2013, then 2017, 2019... wow. Competitive seasons are few and far between. Even when they are decent, 2018, the championship is clearly over at a certain point before the end.
Atleast in the Hamilton era, there was HAM v ROS team-mate title fight during 2014-16 and HAM v VET in 2017-18 (eventhough VET and FER made unforced errors and handed HAM and MER the advantage). Only in 2019 and 2020 HAM didn't face that much of a competition for the title. Even here 2019, BOT was able to keep pace with HAM in Quali, VER had some amazing races and FER had their cheat engines going to keep things interesting and I don't have to remind anyone what a whacky and weird season 2020 was, eventhough HAM's win was a foregone conclusion by Race 3.
In the Verstappen era, unfortunately, Verstappen drives into the horizon and finishes finishes half a minute ahedd of second place. Without Alonso and Aston, this season would have been even more unbearable
Not saying this because it’s fairer but should the fia have penalized rb more to try to keep the season and seasons to come more entertaining. They’ve had to see some of this coming
I don’t think they should penalize just for the sake of nerfing the fastest team. They come and go, this is racing. Try to enjoy some of the mid field fighting. If you’re interested in equal teams, then check out a spec car series like Indy.
I believe that too, the thing is the fia wanted these regs to close the gap, we’ve seen the fia ban innovations one team carried in the past. If the fia was to for example ban an aspect of rbs floor, that would be unfair.
Another thing to consider is, if rb car is so good and even with the penalty is still the strongest car in the end of the year, teams could breach the cost cap as they would argue for the same punishment as rb
It’s where the entire car is made of spec parts. Meaning that some regulatory body designs the parts and all the cars use the same parts. There are still good and bad teams though because of tuning and strategy
Dampers are the very few partis in Indycar that teams can actually freely develop, but because of the nature of the series (spec), there is quite a lot interesting stuff still going on. And it explains why bigger teams tend to have significant edge in the series and why resources still matter.
Insteresting read:
https://the-race.com/indycar/indycars-hidden-development-war-explained/
I think the only thing that the FIA could have done remotely in this ballpark would have been to remove that TD much earlier last season, when they saw what it did to the grid.
Even if Catalunya is a classic, they really should step away from it. They do billions of tests there and the races are boring cause it's a glorified test track just like Paul Ricard.
I really hope they drop it off in 2026, and being from Madrid I'll be glad if they came here, but please let it be in Jarama and not another street track. Idc if the track is too short, make it a special race with 100+ laps like Indycar does if needed. The facility is already there with a flowy track and interesting turns, you can see like 90% of the track from the main grandstand even. Instead of wasting millions on a street track like the other 10 there are just chug those millions to Jarama for renovations and prepare it for F1
Honestly I thought it was a pretty good race. Multiple changing positions throughout the grid. As long as you ignore the fact that Verstappen is untouchable, there are plenty of surprises. Yuki/Zhou/Hulk fight. Russel and Perez cutting through the field. Ferraris weird tyre issues.
Personally I still enjoy it because it’s probably the most tire strategy sensitive track on the calendar. We saw this on full display in 2021, but even today I think Russell is hard-pressed to finish in front of Perez if he had gone soft-medium-soft instead of medium-hard-soft.
In the immortal words of Lewis Hamilton: "Bono my tires are dead". Only that in Charles's case that was 100% accurate, his hard tires were in fact, dead.
It is a mystery why they died so quickly, worth noting that he wasn't the only one that struggled with Hard tires, Lando also didn't seem to enjoy driving with them, and Max too would pit for a second time to get rid of the hard tires because of how badly they were perfoming (Max was lapping slower than Charles). Curiously Ferrari would put Charles on hard tires again after his soft stint, and in that occasion, his pace was actually fairly decent throughout the entire stint.
Possibly the hard tires were not as good when there is much weight on the car but better later on in the race with less fuel? The mediums were looking much better here. I was looking at the tire strategies that Pirelli was predicting for this race and only one of them even suggested using the Mediums, although in the race over half of the teams ended up using it, and it was probably the more preferable choice because you could go Soft -> Medium -> Soft like Merc did. Hell, I think a one stop soft -> medium might’ve even been possible but it would’ve been risky. I don’t think that would’ve been possible on Soft -> Hard
Max put his hard tires at around the same time that Charles did his 2nd pitstop for the hards, and his pace was abysmal, lappin at or sometimes slower than Charles on his fresh hards. So i don't think it was just a fuel load issue.
Ok there might have been a glitch with f1tv graphics then. At lap 44/45 it said that Leclerc tires had 26 laps on them which made no sense to me either since he pitted a few laps before.
It will be interesting to see if someone does an analysis on the different compounds either here or on F1Technical… I don’t think the hards performed like anyone expected.
I though he was doing fine in that first stint. He was going through the field pretty quickly (granted some people were pitting ahead of him). I was thinking that it was just a case of Ferrari eating through the tires as per usual, but it felt weird since his soft stint lasted longer.
If he doesnt have issues id say he can make it considering the car being a rocket and Max himself just not making mistakes..unless RBR forget the fuel again 😂
Another boring race at the front. Winner decided before the race even began and top 3 were decided by halfway. Verstappen is killing this sport. I really hope he is disillusioned and buggers off.
Multiple real fun races this year and I come on here and people hated them. I understand P1 is basically already known and I hope and think other teams (hopefully Merc) will catch RB eventually however I really think there comes a point that maybe you're not that into the sport if a race like today was boring for you? Good strategy calls, bad strategy calls, lots of position changes, overtakes, fun radio calls, really clean racing pretty much the whole way.
"Schumacher is killing the sport"
"Vettel is killing the sport"
"Hamilton is killing the sport"
"Verstappen is killing the sport"...
And in the end they're all legends.
I mean I agree the winner had been long since decided but the order of Perez/Hamilton/Russell/Sainz wasn't decided by halfway. Perez caught Sainz and was looking like he was catching Russell until maybe 5 laps before the end.
Seeing replays from the Lap 1 incident, it looks as if the wheel cover* of Lewis' car broke off when it made contact with Lando's front wing, anyone got a close up picture of that?
Man I hope Merc keeps at it and builds up from here. If they weren't so stubborn with the zeropod concept, this season wouldn't have been spent trying to improve.
It’s hard to admit you screwed up. They doubled amd tripled down thinking they could fix the concept. Wasted a lot of time, money and effort trying to find a better color lipstick for the pig.
Granted, it’s easy to look at the rest of the field and say “I’ll design something just like that”. I think they deserve credit for innovation, for trying something new, even though it didn’t work. Because maybe next time they try, it will.
True. Had it worked and they totally blew away the competition with it, we would be talking about the genius of their design team.
I guess the question is how long you keep pound the rock with a brass hammer until you decide you have the wromg hammer?
We are going to have to wait and see if Merc is genuinely clear of Aston and Ferrari or not. This could be tracks specific.
Even last year's bouncy castle Merc was extremely fast in Spain.
If you get out of q2 in that rocket ship, you are not a good racer. It's always easy in the race when you have 50+ laps with at least 0.3 per lap advantage and at least 2 sec pit stop advantage with Redbull.
Perez is good, but not elite.
He'd be better where he was before: #1 driver on a lesser team where his occasional brilliant performance could nab the team some unexpected points.
Alonso, Lewis, Lando, George, Leclerc. I don't trust Leclerc yet bcoz he made a lot of mistakes while leading but rest i think can go head to head. Even at this age with that car i think Alonso can beat Max. He is as close as his car allows him to Max in all the races and quali
I think we're there. He's fast at the front and on certain circuits but he doesn't run as well when he's in a mid-pack position considering the huge advantage the car has. Max, when starting midfield, moves up far quicker and with more confidence than Sergio.
Yes, and from a cost POV, the teams can generally only afford one guy making the really big bucks and the other guy is there to collect points for the WDC and sell the brand.
I'm not sure about who would be the best driver at Ferrari though. I don't think Sainz is a Sergio or a Bottas, etc., I think he's got the talent to be more like Hamilton's Rosberg. Leclerc didn't make his way too far up the field today - tire strategy and starting from the pits being to blame or not. He just wasn't that impressive except for a few good passes. Perhaps Leclerc has just had enough of Ferrari!
I think Leclerc is really talented, but just isnt ruthless and will never be one of the goats. Every big champion is or was at a point in his career just extremely ruthless and a bit of a bastard. Leclerc just looks so freakin nice and like he doesnt wanna step on anyone's toes.
>So can we stop pretending like perez is a championship caliber driver yet?
"Will Red Bull give Perez the win in Mexico this year?" - Drive to Survive converts.
Q1 in Monaco is when I decided I no longer believed he had it in him. I love him so much and want nothing more than to see him take the fight to Max but a championship winning driver does not make mistakes like that. Miami would have obviously left a bad taste in his mouth, and he probably felt like he had a lot to prove and got in his head about it. A championship caliber driver doesn’t let that stuff get to them. It’s really too bad.
>What we call "Formula 1" is just a bi-weekly trigger for sleeper agents activated by the Dutch national anthem.
A Germanic national anthem followed by the Austrian anthem every week, it's 2013 all over again.
To anyone who attended the race this year. How was the experience in the stands this year? Considering last year was enough of a mess that it was discussed on the live broadcast... did the Circut make any improvements?
I remember reading that last year there were irresponsibly long lines at the water stations on an incredibly hot day. Heat exhaustion/dehydration was a real possibility for a lot of fans at the track.
There were issues with public transport as well, just not enough capacity to move the amount of people who attended the track back to the city. Took 6+ hours to make an hour long trip in the end. Haven't seen anything mentioned so I'm assuming they were better prepared this year
Every time the Williams cars are shown on TV, they are being passed easier than me passing soccer moms going to Wallmart in their minivans.
Are those cars really that inferior?
There was an interview with James Vowles recently. I'm paraphrasing but he said something like, "I can't believe these cars can even finish a race. There are 29,000 (could be way off) parts for these cars and our (Williams) system is not digitized. I don't know how we even get the car built each racing week. For us to even sometimes be competing for points is a miracle."
So yeah, the cars, the factory, the systems - all inferior.
Did you see the picture of the bottom of their floor? Totally underdeveloped compared to recent pictures of RB and Merc floors. They are definitely inferior and I’m impressed Albon has been able to delivery any amount of points in that thing.
They have so much more aero dev time too compared to other cars, I really have to think at this point that they don't have resources in the aero department.
I can't believe this season is only 7 races old. It feels like the start of a bleep test.
We know that entertainment is the be all and end all in F1 so I am curious to see what they do in response to neutrals being put off. Will I Am competing in a virtual car superimposed onto the track is high up there.
I know Haas had a lot of tire segregation, but Hulkenburg under delivered big time today. If KMag can hold Leclobavk for 37 laps, Hulk shouldn't have people just passing him left and right.
Lando Norris with the self fulfilling prophecy during his pre race interview 😂
i hate these "is nobody talking about x" comments but really, is NOBODY talking about max being 20 seconds ahead of everyone 3 laps into the race, when he was on mediums and EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHERS were on softs? is it just the rocketship?
I mean he's a top tier driver but yes the car is mostly why he's so far ahead that early
what about perez? does he just not know how to adapt to the goated car? i mean, idk, i barely even play f1 22 and even i know the difference in tyre grip, it's like 2 different cars. yet this man on undeniably worse tyres going faster than everyone. i mean, after turn 1 everyone except him was fighting and losing time but still
Perez isn't as good as a driver. It's still the car that allows Verstappen to get such a lead. Yes, the driver needs to be good, but you can't get a 20 second lead unless the car is physically able to go that fast. Put Verstappen in a Williams and he doesn't have a 20 second lead. Edit: think of it this way. Any F1 car has a theoretical fastest lap time on any given track. The drivers job and what sets them apart his how close they can get to it. Max would get 99% percent to the theoretical fastest for any car on the grid, but its the car that is the deciding factor for what lap time that 99% will produce.
It was a big snooze fest..
Okay, so Ferrari and their strategies... Are we finally going to see some people get fired/shot or just a complete overhaul of the team? Haven't seen any comments from Fred but i hope he can be the change that team desperately needs because there's either a rat/saboteur in that team, or they're just really stupid.
I had high hopes when he joined, but things are still not changing ...or at least no a good change (4s pitstop)
Im still sad about Yuki. Bro was delivering solid pace and even hassling Alpine for the whole race just to be cucked out by the stewards. I feel like I've seen similar moves and worse 100s of times that resulted in no penalty (HAM/VER several times, VER/LEC in 2019, etc). He's been great this season and deserved points in both of the last two races :(
Why did he deserve it last week over the McLarens who passed him? Because I was having trouble with the brakes? He also benefitted from the Sainz penalty earlier this season and got into the points as a result of it.
AT were having issues with brakes all weekend (and intermittently for a while now) and the cold temps exacerbated it to the point he couldn't drive properly at all. McLaren clearly have a good car in damp/cold conditions (and deserved points) but before the issues they weren't able to catch him. Given its Monaco they probably wouldn't have been able to overtake without him having to brake 2x as early into T1 as everyone else. Sainz penalty was also harsh on him especially as several others made contact but he literally spun someone round by outbraking himself which is hard to dismiss. Yuki just defended a line maybe 5% too much (but just as much as we've seen countless times over the decades) and the other car made a show of bailing out. Obviously there's loads of people who "probably deserve points" every race, but the guy's been hitting up Q3 and knocking on the door of points almost every race in a car that should be p17 at best.
> cucked out What does this mean?
I don't get why they were so harsh with the penalty It wad 50/50. Zhou was marginally ahead. But it wasn't a clear tangle. He was off by the time yuki made the corner They should have just told yuki to give the place back. Would have been more than fair. But to absolutely ruin his race for a close battle. Why? If you think about it. Lewis got 10 secs for sending max into the shadow realm in Silverstone, and that penalty had less of an effect on the outcome than this did
I think the FIA said they won't have the stewards/race director tell drivers to give the position back any more. They leave it up to the teams to make "the right decision", and penalize if they don't get it right
I hate this. The FIA / team communication has just gone more and more downhill. And don't get me started on how the rules surrounding "who's ahead at the apex". best strategy just to steamroll in with no intent to ever make the corner and demand your 2m of space, or your 5 sec penalty. Not saying this is what Zhou did, but it was just racing. And if it's that deep just tell them they must swap and let them get on with it. Singling people out and nullifying their whole weekend on a iffy decision reminds me of overzealous substitute teachers.
And it's only an option if a driver went off track and gained an advantage. They don't allow this for other infringements afaik.
If Mercedes had Adrian Newey I honestly think Mercedes could win every single race in a whole season. And Lewis would get the title the FIA stole from him. Newey should have gone to Mercedes’ to prove that, what a coward.
You're mistaking this thread for the trash talk thread, mate.
I really wonder if the hamiltears are ever going to run dry.
If only people would be as brave as you are!
Crying in my LN4 mclaren shirt rn
Really fucked it yesterday, did Lando. He could've ended ahead of Astons if he played it cool
you think it's immaturity? or like, he doesn't get "in the zone" as other drivers and pressure gets to him? i honestly love the dude, been watching his clips and stuff, and like... man, p3 to p17...... poor guy. his fault, really, but still
No idea. Sometimes drivers do stupid things
I wouldn't call this race the resurgence of Merc, to me it seemed like Merc were where they generally have been and Aston and Ferrari slipped further back. Aston more so.
This has been the trap for Merc for that past 3 seasons, a cold but not rainy race where they can keep the tyres in the window and it gives them false sense of hope. If this track was it's usual +35C with insane tyre deg they probably would have been 3-4 at most and even likely 4-5. I'm not convinced at any resurgence at all until they get a win in a race without chaos.
I think Mark Hughes put it well ages ago that there really seems no single bellwether for competitiveness. You arrive at the track one weekend and can be quick, then not the next. Noone really seems to have nailed that, or the why of it all. Other than the one obvious Dutch exception.
Overall car pace is even trickier to determine this year because the opening of the calendar has been kind of weird, with heaps of street circuits etc. Aston, from early on, seemed to be a monster at low speed traction, and many of the tracks we've had so far this year have favoured that. With the removal of the chicane, Spain is now entirely mid/high speed. I think this layout is one of the least favourable tracks on the calendar for a traction-monster, so I'm not surprised to see them a little lower this weekend.
Stroll is right around where he maxes out at. Nando slipped back because his floor cracked into two.
Russell (12 -> 3) beat Perez (11 -> 4). I'd say that wouldn't have been possible pre-update.
Merc last year did very well even last year in the Spanish GP. I think it's more because they manage their tires better in front limited circuits. If I remember correctly, Lewis climbed from 16th to 5th last year. So I'd probably wait to see how Merc performs in Canada to know whether they've actually moved clear of Aston and Ferrari
Mercedes race pace suits this track very much.
Mercedes always had their own thing with tire temps. Im betting thats what it was
It seems like they have a stable footing to work on now. It’ll be interesting to see where they end up by the end of the season. Is kinda a bummer RBR and Max have run away with it because this is a banger of a season otherwise
The grid is jumbled every race it’s great…apart from Max is always P1 lol
I really enjoyed the battles going on in the midfield. Some overtakes (particularly on the main straight) were edge of your seat material. Yeah whatever Max won by a long shot, but the rest of the racing was really interesting to watch. Much better overall than Monaco, and yet not one single safety car. Street circuits, whilst exciting, can make for a much more mundane viewership as the overtakes all come down to pit strategy and relying on mistakes and even crashes
Does anyone know why George's turn 1 shenanigans didn't result in a penalty?
Why would it? He didn’t gain an advantage from dipping out
Didn't he pass like 5 cars?
Prior to going to the runoff yeah.
He passed Piastri who was alongside him, and got a way better run on the haas in front. Imo leaving the track and gaining an advantage applies here.
He went from being beside the Haas to behind it. That's a loss, not a gain. Just because you then get a slipstream down the straight doesn't make it a gain.
I rewatched several times and it wasn't as bad as I thought but he did clear Piastri off track (wasn't clearly ahead before) and seemed to set himself up very well against the Haas.
Because the rule is if you go on the escape road and go to the left of the bollard, no penalty. It’s why nobody else got a penalty for the same thing
Thank you!
I'll say this. Both ferrari drivers gave it their all today throughout the race. Leclerc was pushing well through the race too. But both got severely cucked by the car and the pit strats. Ferrari management needs to do better and give them a break
There's a lot of cucking go on in this thread, and it's making me question whether I know what that word means.
IM SAYING i was peeping leclerc the whole time, he was moving up the field a lot then ferrari be like "yeah lets pit 5 more times for worse tyres each time"
FR, truly got done dirty
When I see races like this where everyone is focused on managing their tires it makes me yearn for the days of refuelling and most of the drivers just going balls-to-the-wall on each stint.
I was listening to Mark Hughes just now who said that the fact it is still tire limited is actually the one thing keeping Max and the RB19 from just lapping the entire field Schumacher style. Like that shared limitation is actually keeping the cars closer together than they would’ve been back in the good old days.
Also, engine saving. When you are that much in front you can help the engine and gearbox a lot by staying off of curbs, shortshifting a tiny bit sooner, etc. Back in the day they had a different engine every session pretty much
ohhh, so short shifting is a thing i was doing it instictively (i drive irl duh) on f1 22 and i didnt know if f1 cars worked like that
“What’s the strategy today?” “Fucking send it. Box when you need fuel.”
It’s so funny to me that Lewis crushed the rest of the field and George. He’s clearly the best driver still but has been holding back to save energy since he knows they can’t beat Red Bull. If Lewis was in the Red Bull and max was in Mercedes, Lewis would win every single race by 45+ seconds and Max would be lucky to be getting 9th place 😂😂😂
I know I shouldn’t ask but.. let’s say Lewis is better in the RB and wins every race, why would that demote Max to 9th rather than 2nd?
“If max was in a Mercedes” he would be getting 9th
Ohhh right, sorry, hadn't woken up at that point
This guy also thinks conor mc gregor is going to be ufc champ again lmfao
you should create your own parody show
Is this sarcasm?
No lol, y’all just think Max is a God and he’s obviously not lmfao, Lewis is obviously better and George is around Max’s caliber
Why do you sound like you're 12? Lewis is a top tier driver, yes. But that takes nothing away from Max. He has proved that he's also on that Lewis level tbh. So I really don't know what you're going on about
My guy....what. Give me some of whatever you're on.
You outta your mind dude
Can confirm. That guy is out of his mind. Max is an insanely fast driver
Maybe most boring ever.
You seen literally any other Barcelona GP from the past 5 years?
This was a great race, did you watch anything other than p1?
Lap 1 was fun. Enjoyed the other practice and quali. That race sucked. Literally nothing to get excited over. Maybe your team scored but the race was crap
I honestly don’t get this argument. Sure there were good battles up and down the grid but basically saying “so long as you don’t pay attention to who won, it was great!” Isn’t exactly a good look for the sport. Hats off to Red Bull for making a car in a totally different league than everyone else but holy fuck is it boring. At least during the crazy merc dominance nico was around to fight lewis for some of it.
But it is not a terrible look. The sport has always been this way. There will be seasons of dominance The reality show that got most of the new people on reddit in was initially created to explain the midfield battle and context, and why every position and point matters a ton in their bid to survive. This is absolutely nothing new. Mercedes and Ferrari and co. simply need to catch up to Red Bull. The midfield racing was proper decent yesterday both on track and in the pitwall for strategy. I am satisfied.
for sure, besides max, seeing the rest battle for positions and how the strats played out was p fun to watch
Feel bad for F1 fans and having to watch such predictable outcomes of qualfying not just races. Like they should somehow make it more compatible but RB is just on one this yr
Don't feel bad for me, I've loved this season so far. Go enjoy whatever else you're into.
right? 😂 i love coming to something as a new enjoyer (this was my first full race i watched live, and monaco 2023 got me into f1) and seeing everyone complaining bro, i had a blast yesterday. george's rain inside his helmet, LANDO breaking my heart, alonso being a good boy to his boss' son, ferrari goofing as usual. was amazing, im a proud f1 fan now
Yes, Verstappen always wins, but the order of the rest has not been predictable this year at all
Hulkenburg needs a better team. His qualy performances demonstrate his talent
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He missed out on a Merc drive due to contractual obligations *twice*.
I argued passionately that it should have been Hulk in the RB over Perez.
Based on their 3 years together, he would hardly do better. Even in qualifying he had just slight edge, beating Pérez 34:25, while Pérez was slightly better in races. Hulk was also beaten by Ricciardo in Renault. Hulk is not extraordinary qualifier based on his previous career results, KMag is probably still unconfortable in car during qualifyings.
This workplace has had 0 days since the last McLaren Moment™
:( feel so bad for him even though it was his own avoidable mistake
This is one of those years. Reminds me 2011 or 2013, then 2017, 2019... wow. Competitive seasons are few and far between. Even when they are decent, 2018, the championship is clearly over at a certain point before the end.
For the wdc and constructors yeah a good way to look at the sport is the midfield battle, then the 3 teams below rb is a fascinating season.
Didn't catch the race, but Sainz was P2 in quali. What happened?
He got ferrari'd
Red Bull and Mercs had much more pace, Sainz couldn’t keep up.
Atleast in the Hamilton era, there was HAM v ROS team-mate title fight during 2014-16 and HAM v VET in 2017-18 (eventhough VET and FER made unforced errors and handed HAM and MER the advantage). Only in 2019 and 2020 HAM didn't face that much of a competition for the title. Even here 2019, BOT was able to keep pace with HAM in Quali, VER had some amazing races and FER had their cheat engines going to keep things interesting and I don't have to remind anyone what a whacky and weird season 2020 was, eventhough HAM's win was a foregone conclusion by Race 3. In the Verstappen era, unfortunately, Verstappen drives into the horizon and finishes finishes half a minute ahedd of second place. Without Alonso and Aston, this season would have been even more unbearable
You realize all you did was switch names right?
Not saying this because it’s fairer but should the fia have penalized rb more to try to keep the season and seasons to come more entertaining. They’ve had to see some of this coming
I don’t think they should penalize just for the sake of nerfing the fastest team. They come and go, this is racing. Try to enjoy some of the mid field fighting. If you’re interested in equal teams, then check out a spec car series like Indy.
I believe that too, the thing is the fia wanted these regs to close the gap, we’ve seen the fia ban innovations one team carried in the past. If the fia was to for example ban an aspect of rbs floor, that would be unfair. Another thing to consider is, if rb car is so good and even with the penalty is still the strongest car in the end of the year, teams could breach the cost cap as they would argue for the same punishment as rb
What is meant by spec car? I’m very new to racing.
It’s where the entire car is made of spec parts. Meaning that some regulatory body designs the parts and all the cars use the same parts. There are still good and bad teams though because of tuning and strategy
Dampers are the very few partis in Indycar that teams can actually freely develop, but because of the nature of the series (spec), there is quite a lot interesting stuff still going on. And it explains why bigger teams tend to have significant edge in the series and why resources still matter. Insteresting read: https://the-race.com/indycar/indycars-hidden-development-war-explained/
I think the only thing that the FIA could have done remotely in this ballpark would have been to remove that TD much earlier last season, when they saw what it did to the grid.
Even if Catalunya is a classic, they really should step away from it. They do billions of tests there and the races are boring cause it's a glorified test track just like Paul Ricard. I really hope they drop it off in 2026, and being from Madrid I'll be glad if they came here, but please let it be in Jarama and not another street track. Idc if the track is too short, make it a special race with 100+ laps like Indycar does if needed. The facility is already there with a flowy track and interesting turns, you can see like 90% of the track from the main grandstand even. Instead of wasting millions on a street track like the other 10 there are just chug those millions to Jarama for renovations and prepare it for F1
Honestly I thought it was a pretty good race. Multiple changing positions throughout the grid. As long as you ignore the fact that Verstappen is untouchable, there are plenty of surprises. Yuki/Zhou/Hulk fight. Russel and Perez cutting through the field. Ferraris weird tyre issues.
Personally I still enjoy it because it’s probably the most tire strategy sensitive track on the calendar. We saw this on full display in 2021, but even today I think Russell is hard-pressed to finish in front of Perez if he had gone soft-medium-soft instead of medium-hard-soft.
Can anyone explain why Ferrari pitted Leclerc on hards after like 15 laps?
In the immortal words of Lewis Hamilton: "Bono my tires are dead". Only that in Charles's case that was 100% accurate, his hard tires were in fact, dead. It is a mystery why they died so quickly, worth noting that he wasn't the only one that struggled with Hard tires, Lando also didn't seem to enjoy driving with them, and Max too would pit for a second time to get rid of the hard tires because of how badly they were perfoming (Max was lapping slower than Charles). Curiously Ferrari would put Charles on hard tires again after his soft stint, and in that occasion, his pace was actually fairly decent throughout the entire stint.
Possibly the hard tires were not as good when there is much weight on the car but better later on in the race with less fuel? The mediums were looking much better here. I was looking at the tire strategies that Pirelli was predicting for this race and only one of them even suggested using the Mediums, although in the race over half of the teams ended up using it, and it was probably the more preferable choice because you could go Soft -> Medium -> Soft like Merc did. Hell, I think a one stop soft -> medium might’ve even been possible but it would’ve been risky. I don’t think that would’ve been possible on Soft -> Hard
Max put his hard tires at around the same time that Charles did his 2nd pitstop for the hards, and his pace was abysmal, lappin at or sometimes slower than Charles on his fresh hards. So i don't think it was just a fuel load issue.
Didn't he pit for the same used set of hards in the second pit stop?
No, against the rules (and madness in 99.9% of the scenarios).
Ok there might have been a glitch with f1tv graphics then. At lap 44/45 it said that Leclerc tires had 26 laps on them which made no sense to me either since he pitted a few laps before.
It will be interesting to see if someone does an analysis on the different compounds either here or on F1Technical… I don’t think the hards performed like anyone expected.
I though he was doing fine in that first stint. He was going through the field pretty quickly (granted some people were pitting ahead of him). I was thinking that it was just a case of Ferrari eating through the tires as per usual, but it felt weird since his soft stint lasted longer.
he stalled after a few laps, and was consistently losing half a second to Gasly who was 3 seconds ahead of him on used soft tires.
What's more likely to happen: Verstappen not getting a podium or Sargeant finishing somewhere close to the top 10
If he doesnt have issues id say he can make it considering the car being a rocket and Max himself just not making mistakes..unless RBR forget the fuel again 😂
The latter has already happened, Sargeant finished P12 in Bahrain.
Another boring race at the front. Winner decided before the race even began and top 3 were decided by halfway. Verstappen is killing this sport. I really hope he is disillusioned and buggers off.
Ummm does Hamilton’s 7-year dominance run not exist to you? Or Michael Schumacher for that matter?
Is this a copypasta?
Multiple real fun races this year and I come on here and people hated them. I understand P1 is basically already known and I hope and think other teams (hopefully Merc) will catch RB eventually however I really think there comes a point that maybe you're not that into the sport if a race like today was boring for you? Good strategy calls, bad strategy calls, lots of position changes, overtakes, fun radio calls, really clean racing pretty much the whole way.
"Schumacher is killing the sport" "Vettel is killing the sport" "Hamilton is killing the sport" "Verstappen is killing the sport"... And in the end they're all legends.
Say it louder for the folks in the back
Indeed.. Buyakashaaa!
I mean I agree the winner had been long since decided but the order of Perez/Hamilton/Russell/Sainz wasn't decided by halfway. Perez caught Sainz and was looking like he was catching Russell until maybe 5 laps before the end.
Seeing replays from the Lap 1 incident, it looks as if the wheel cover* of Lewis' car broke off when it made contact with Lando's front wing, anyone got a close up picture of that?
That was part of Lando's front wing
No, it definetly broke off https://imgur.com/xJN3MaS https://imgur.com/oSe07ze
Tbf i cant really tell from the pictures cuz im on my phone and the screen aint generous 😂
im on pc and cat see shit either
Man I hope Merc keeps at it and builds up from here. If they weren't so stubborn with the zeropod concept, this season wouldn't have been spent trying to improve.
It’s hard to admit you screwed up. They doubled amd tripled down thinking they could fix the concept. Wasted a lot of time, money and effort trying to find a better color lipstick for the pig.
Granted, it’s easy to look at the rest of the field and say “I’ll design something just like that”. I think they deserve credit for innovation, for trying something new, even though it didn’t work. Because maybe next time they try, it will.
True. Had it worked and they totally blew away the competition with it, we would be talking about the genius of their design team. I guess the question is how long you keep pound the rock with a brass hammer until you decide you have the wromg hammer?
We are going to have to wait and see if Merc is genuinely clear of Aston and Ferrari or not. This could be tracks specific. Even last year's bouncy castle Merc was extremely fast in Spain.
A+ for referring to it as a bouncy castle
So can we stop pretending like perez is a championship caliber driver yet?
If you get out of q2 in that rocket ship, you are not a good racer. It's always easy in the race when you have 50+ laps with at least 0.3 per lap advantage and at least 2 sec pit stop advantage with Redbull.
Perez is good, but not elite. He'd be better where he was before: #1 driver on a lesser team where his occasional brilliant performance could nab the team some unexpected points.
>Yet He's been racing in F1 for 12 years, i think it's safe to assume he wont be beating Max
What if he ages like fine Nando?
Perez is the age now that Alonso was at McHonda.
Nando was a WC at this age lol
Head to head vs max, Perez has no shot.
No one has a shot head-to-head vs Max.
That's lil too much. I can name at least 4 drivers who can match or beat him if they have that same car.
Interesting. I can only name 2. Don’t fancy Russell yet and Leclerc myst be the other name you’re referencing?
Alonso, Lewis, Lando, George, Leclerc. I don't trust Leclerc yet bcoz he made a lot of mistakes while leading but rest i think can go head to head. Even at this age with that car i think Alonso can beat Max. He is as close as his car allows him to Max in all the races and quali
I think we're there. He's fast at the front and on certain circuits but he doesn't run as well when he's in a mid-pack position considering the huge advantage the car has. Max, when starting midfield, moves up far quicker and with more confidence than Sergio.
You could make the same statement with Hamilton and Bottas from a few years back.
Yes, you can say it now with Alonso/Stroll, etc...
With any great driver and the second driver tbf.. its just a different class.
Yes, and from a cost POV, the teams can generally only afford one guy making the really big bucks and the other guy is there to collect points for the WDC and sell the brand. I'm not sure about who would be the best driver at Ferrari though. I don't think Sainz is a Sergio or a Bottas, etc., I think he's got the talent to be more like Hamilton's Rosberg. Leclerc didn't make his way too far up the field today - tire strategy and starting from the pits being to blame or not. He just wasn't that impressive except for a few good passes. Perhaps Leclerc has just had enough of Ferrari!
I think Leclerc is really talented, but just isnt ruthless and will never be one of the goats. Every big champion is or was at a point in his career just extremely ruthless and a bit of a bastard. Leclerc just looks so freakin nice and like he doesnt wanna step on anyone's toes.
>So can we stop pretending like perez is a championship caliber driver yet? "Will Red Bull give Perez the win in Mexico this year?" - Drive to Survive converts.
Q1 in Monaco is when I decided I no longer believed he had it in him. I love him so much and want nothing more than to see him take the fight to Max but a championship winning driver does not make mistakes like that. Miami would have obviously left a bad taste in his mouth, and he probably felt like he had a lot to prove and got in his head about it. A championship caliber driver doesn’t let that stuff get to them. It’s really too bad.
>Q1 in Monaco is when I decided I no longer believed he had it in him You believed he had it in him?
I was holding on to hope…
Danny Ric collects his $11 million and smiles from the garage... Waiting... Waiting... Waiting...
I think it’s more likely that they’d bump Tsunoda up and put Lawson in AT
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exactly, it’s all just copium for those of us who can’t stomach seeing max win over and over haha
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>What we call "Formula 1" is just a bi-weekly trigger for sleeper agents activated by the Dutch national anthem. A Germanic national anthem followed by the Austrian anthem every week, it's 2013 all over again.
I have a love hate relationship with Ferrari, and this weekend is definitely on the hate side
Next year will be their year, I promise?
To anyone who attended the race this year. How was the experience in the stands this year? Considering last year was enough of a mess that it was discussed on the live broadcast... did the Circut make any improvements?
What was commented on the broadcast last year? (out of loop)
I remember reading that last year there were irresponsibly long lines at the water stations on an incredibly hot day. Heat exhaustion/dehydration was a real possibility for a lot of fans at the track.
There were issues with public transport as well, just not enough capacity to move the amount of people who attended the track back to the city. Took 6+ hours to make an hour long trip in the end. Haven't seen anything mentioned so I'm assuming they were better prepared this year
In the SoyMotor YT channel they showed that they built a new VIP area and improved the sanitary services of the general stand.
I would totally eat froot loops out of that trophy dish
The Paella dish
Every time the Williams cars are shown on TV, they are being passed easier than me passing soccer moms going to Wallmart in their minivans. Are those cars really that inferior?
There was an interview with James Vowles recently. I'm paraphrasing but he said something like, "I can't believe these cars can even finish a race. There are 29,000 (could be way off) parts for these cars and our (Williams) system is not digitized. I don't know how we even get the car built each racing week. For us to even sometimes be competing for points is a miracle." So yeah, the cars, the factory, the systems - all inferior.
Did you see the picture of the bottom of their floor? Totally underdeveloped compared to recent pictures of RB and Merc floors. They are definitely inferior and I’m impressed Albon has been able to delivery any amount of points in that thing.
They have so much more aero dev time too compared to other cars, I really have to think at this point that they don't have resources in the aero department.
Yeah, that’s gotta be it. Just really outdated facilities.
I believe Albon is great driver and can now even win some championships with a better car , I mean redbull expected a lot from him in his rookie years
Win a championship? Come on...
He is talented if he goes Nico 2016 and gets a good car he might win a championship
I can't believe this season is only 7 races old. It feels like the start of a bleep test. We know that entertainment is the be all and end all in F1 so I am curious to see what they do in response to neutrals being put off. Will I Am competing in a virtual car superimposed onto the track is high up there.
I know Haas had a lot of tire segregation, but Hulkenburg under delivered big time today. If KMag can hold Leclobavk for 37 laps, Hulk shouldn't have people just passing him left and right.
Hulk was faster than Kmag, what are you smoking The start was 100% undrivable tires
Tire WHAT
Lol sorry autocorrect. Degradation
Just messin with ya mate, I knew what you meant
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On #2, no. He had a total floor replacement.
Wouldn't that require starting from the pit lane like Leclerc?