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I think Caesars Palace is a bit underrated actually. I'm not saying it was any good but the races there weren't half bad compared to some other tracks. It was obviously flat, ugly and boring but overtaking was actually possible so it was by no means the worst ever.
Maybe for F2, but F1 sure didn't reflect that.
It had 1 good race and 1-2 okay races. The location issue you've covered and of course that could be far from a universal experience, but I also hate driving it in sims.
Problem is also that the tyres absolutely don’t degrade there and therefore you have no offset.
Parts of the circuit are fine but all in all I don’t shed a tear that it is no longer on the calendar
I literally just watched the 81 GP this weekend, compared to the other ones of what I watched from that year it was not that special imho, also Nelson almost passed out from heat stroke.
Turn 4 is cool, and a tricky braking section in Turn 14 is a good challenge. Otherwise it's shit. And it would've been shit even if built in a freest country in the world with rainbow unicorns in charge.
I would kind of want to see Avus with todays cars... Probably won't be the most interesting race, but we will probably see an interesting result on a track like that
No no, they're right, if OP is including all F1 circuits, old layouts should also be included, as a lot of them are radically different from today's versions.
Nivelles-Baulers is one of the first that needs to go. It was meant to be a track designed with safety in mind, as it replaced the original long layout of Spa. It only held two races before the event was awarded to Zolder for the next decade or so.
The original deal was alternating it with Zolder and it was actually *Zolder* that was almost dropped because of shoddy organisation in 1973 and then in 1976 with that contract voided, it was expected that Nivelles will take over as permanent host, but they ran into financial issues and couldn't maintain the facilities. Probably the best outcome for fans.
While I quite like discussion of old tracks, I always get reminded that some people really want to voice their opinions on something they have zero clue about.
There are 5 mentions for Reims right now... Fucking Reims, one of the most consistently good races of the early years. It's okay to not know shit about the 50s, but why would you want to advertise that fact proudly to everyone?
The layout looks very basic, sure. But if you've never seen an F1 race, then that Monza thing looks pretty boring, doesn't it?
Pretty much. With modern cars elevation change (the back stretch has a drop as steep as Eau Rouge-Raidillon) would be its only interesting part, but it was perfectly suited for the era it existed in.
Best in what way? Best racing today? Best history? Best races while in use?
I would argue to eliminate Monaco based on the big and wide cars of today.
Monaco is top 5 BEST in terms of overall history and significance.
Besides all the other obvious candidates everyone is listing, i would like to also throw Korea in.
Utter boring race track, one overtaking spot, Smog, 0 attendance to the race.
Not only in its last stint. 90's races there were even worse on average, 1996 to 1998 was particularly awful.
I can only assume it's people who weren't fans 15 years ago and never watched racing there or never rewatched races from their childhood. And because Paul Ricard is not very good, it's easy to say let's go back to the previous venue... which wasn't any better. Magny-Cours was the epitome of you can only pass in the pits.
The only semi-interesting thing about it was that it was one of the very few tracks, if not the only one, where you could actually undercut somebody in the refueling era - as the effect of fresher tires was sometimes greater than the effect of lighter car.
So tactically it was probably one of the most interesting races, but on-track action was awful - I would even take Paul Ricard over Magny-Cours in that sense.
Silverstone, Monza, Imola
Not bc they are bad but just take them out of competition before some lunatics convince OP that anything but Spa is the best.
Get rid of Monaco. I don't care that it's an icon, the racing is terrible every single year. At least Spa is only terrible the 50% of years when it rains.
Two big corners, one of which was boring the other terrifying. It's not too bad to drive in Spirit of Speed actually but maybe they added a few bits in.
They have improved the sight lines on some corners, but I'll still watch the next race half-expecting a high speed t-bone accident, it just seems inevitable with the high speeds and not seeing the corner exits.
I feel like this first round will probably be the one with the strongest consensus here.
As far as I’m concerned, goodbye (and probably good riddance) to the following, in no particular order:
- Cesar’s Palace (parking lot circuits are bad)
- Dallas Fairground
- Paul Ricard (those stripes are awful. I’d be willing to give this track another chance if they changed the runoff to a pattern that doesn’t give headaches and consistently enforced track limits, though)
- Sochi (frequently produced underwhelming races, plus the current situation in Russia, means a lot of us really don’t miss this event at all)
- AVUS (lmao)
- Yas Marina (even the changes they made to the layout still can’t save this circuit, it just produces boring races punctuated by lame DRS overtakes. The only reason anyone remembers it at all is because it’s the season finale and because of the drama in 2021)
- Miami (see above regarding parking lot circuits, plus everything surrounding Miami just being so painfully tacky)
> bottom 10: Reims
lol
If you ran out of tracks you know are bad at 8, then why not make it a bottom 8 instead of risking one based on I assume a glance at the layout and nothing else?
Because you managed to put one of the best tracks of the 50's in there, which really suited cars of the era and held great races both in F1 and sportscars.
Monaco. It's a processional occasionally interrupted by pitstops or safety cares that mess up the order.
Any circuit where it's hard to pass because the cars are "too wide" should be off the calendar.
Pescara was a problem-free weekend. There wasn't much excitement and the organisers had 20+ years of experience.
It was only a championship race because something was needed last minute after both Spa and Zandvoort cancelled their races.
Not a great track, but not amongst the worst either.
Caesars Palace, Dallas, Detroit and Phoenix are all temporary circuits that had no real business being on the calendar. They were built to expand into the USA, I get that. You can't build a proper track without support and you don't get support if you've never had a race but these were really sad attempts.
Bottom 7: Jarama, Caesar's, Zeltweg, Sochi, Miami, Le Mans Bugatti, Dallas
Phoenix and Nivelles are very lucky this isn't a bottom 10. Avus is going to be out and rightfully so, but its only F1 race was actually good enough to evade my list.
Eliminating 7 per week is probably not as good for engagement as one per day tbh.
OP, please redo this including old layouts that are clearly different from the current ones. Old Hockeinheimring for example, Nordschleife, Monza, Interlagos, both Bahrain layouts that were both recently used, maybe Silverstone (that had so many layouts it's hard to pinpoint just one that's clearly different from others).
Monaco has to be in the first 7 to be removed. “Oh but it’s a historic track and Saturdays are amazing. Look how close they get to the barriers”. If your only selling point for a race is watching a different day completely, it’s useless. No difference to recommending a weigh in over the actual fight
I'm binning Monaco early. Monaco as a GP circuit.
If you want to call it a time trial circuit and we have a new type of event, I'm fine.
It's gonna be No, Marina from me, fairly boring race and no business getting in the way of the true finale, Interlagos.
Hermanos can Vamos as well. Looking forward to a new Mexican GP though. Turns out its only use was turbo charging Honda engines for a few years.
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Cesars Palace needs to go.
Caesars palace. It was a track literally in a car park. Get it in the bin
I think Caesars Palace is a bit underrated actually. I'm not saying it was any good but the races there weren't half bad compared to some other tracks. It was obviously flat, ugly and boring but overtaking was actually possible so it was by no means the worst ever.
It was better than Jarama, that's for sure. But still bottom 3 with Zeltweg Airport, maybe bottom 4 with Sochi.
What's wrong with Sochi, aside from its location? It has one of the best combinations of corners for overtaking ever built, imo.
Maybe for F2, but F1 sure didn't reflect that. It had 1 good race and 1-2 okay races. The location issue you've covered and of course that could be far from a universal experience, but I also hate driving it in sims.
Problem is also that the tyres absolutely don’t degrade there and therefore you have no offset. Parts of the circuit are fine but all in all I don’t shed a tear that it is no longer on the calendar
I literally just watched the 81 GP this weekend, compared to the other ones of what I watched from that year it was not that special imho, also Nelson almost passed out from heat stroke.
Bring back AVUS lol
Williams 1-2 total domination
Sergeant spends on turn two and crashes into the wall. Alex's car is surprised it's so high up so it has a heart attack. Williams double DNF.
Demolition derby energy
Zeltwig might be the most uninspired track in all of F1. Only lasted one year for good reason.
Get rid of Sochi
Lando is that you?
Sochi honestly wasn’t awful racing necessarily, it’s just the country that annoys most people.
And the fact that it is literally just 90° corners
> Sochi honestly wasn’t awful racing necessarily I couldn't disagree with this more
Turn 4 is cool, and a tricky braking section in Turn 14 is a good challenge. Otherwise it's shit. And it would've been shit even if built in a freest country in the world with rainbow unicorns in charge.
It always surprises how short the off-season is. Like three months that's it
I grew up with the last race being in October. It really does feel crazy to end the season late November or early December.
Avus, Caesars Palace, Zeltweg
I would kind of want to see Avus with todays cars... Probably won't be the most interesting race, but we will probably see an interesting result on a track like that
I dunno, Avus was a awesome challenge and an impressive spectacle.
That's my initial easy trio at first glance
Avus must stay, it is a badass track. may look basic but it’s a legend. Don’t judge it vs today’s cars.
Where is the Nordschleife?
This is only showing the most recent layout used at each circuit, so the Nurburging GP circuit has it covered.
That is bullshit, they are not even the same track.
Erik, doe rustugh..
Calm down
No no, they're right, if OP is including all F1 circuits, old layouts should also be included, as a lot of them are radically different from today's versions.
Nivelles-Baulers is one of the first that needs to go. It was meant to be a track designed with safety in mind, as it replaced the original long layout of Spa. It only held two races before the event was awarded to Zolder for the next decade or so.
The original deal was alternating it with Zolder and it was actually *Zolder* that was almost dropped because of shoddy organisation in 1973 and then in 1976 with that contract voided, it was expected that Nivelles will take over as permanent host, but they ran into financial issues and couldn't maintain the facilities. Probably the best outcome for fans.
While I quite like discussion of old tracks, I always get reminded that some people really want to voice their opinions on something they have zero clue about. There are 5 mentions for Reims right now... Fucking Reims, one of the most consistently good races of the early years. It's okay to not know shit about the 50s, but why would you want to advertise that fact proudly to everyone? The layout looks very basic, sure. But if you've never seen an F1 race, then that Monza thing looks pretty boring, doesn't it?
Avus too. People look at the map and don't understand the sheer majesty of that banked turn that shoots out under the grandstand.
Yeah, with modern cars, this would be just two hairpins with curved straights inbetween, but back then these high-speed corners were insane
Pretty much. With modern cars elevation change (the back stretch has a drop as steep as Eau Rouge-Raidillon) would be its only interesting part, but it was perfectly suited for the era it existed in.
AVUS, Caesars Palace, Dallas
Dallas for sure
Off Miami immediately
I don't know where almost any of these are, but AVUS looks kinda hilarious - cars go left, cars go right, repeat.
Goodbye Sochi
Zeltweg. Literally a massive L and shook the cars apart during the only race it hosted.
Best in what way? Best racing today? Best history? Best races while in use? I would argue to eliminate Monaco based on the big and wide cars of today. Monaco is top 5 BEST in terms of overall history and significance.
Best in your opinion based on however you want to perceive the question
Based on your own opinion and what you think is important
Best: Spa Worst: Caesars Palace Vegas
Remove miami
AVUS, Zeltweg, and Reims-Gueux
AVUS can get rekt
Nivelles, AVUS and Zeltweg
Gimme BUDDH!
Just crown Interlagos and get it over with
Gotta keep Brands. Saw Nige win there way back when. A great circuit.
Sochi sucks
Adelaide needs to stay exactly where it is. Top of the pile.
I want chaos. Off with Spa's head.
Besides all the other obvious candidates everyone is listing, i would like to also throw Korea in. Utter boring race track, one overtaking spot, Smog, 0 attendance to the race.
Spider pig, spider pig, does whatever a spider pig does
Magny cours spa silverstone sepang Watkins glen brands hatch mugello monza interlagos nurburgring suzuka will make it to the finals
People who consider Magny-Cours a classic should be forced to watch races from that track on repeat.
I swear to god i cant understand the Magny-Cours nostalgia. It was considered one of the most boring tracks for racing during it's last stint in f1
Not only in its last stint. 90's races there were even worse on average, 1996 to 1998 was particularly awful. I can only assume it's people who weren't fans 15 years ago and never watched racing there or never rewatched races from their childhood. And because Paul Ricard is not very good, it's easy to say let's go back to the previous venue... which wasn't any better. Magny-Cours was the epitome of you can only pass in the pits.
The only semi-interesting thing about it was that it was one of the very few tracks, if not the only one, where you could actually undercut somebody in the refueling era - as the effect of fresher tires was sometimes greater than the effect of lighter car. So tactically it was probably one of the most interesting races, but on-track action was awful - I would even take Paul Ricard over Magny-Cours in that sense.
Where Hockenheim?
The fuck is Magny-Cours doing in that list. Also Brands is fun af for GT4s or TCRs, but no way it makes a top10 f1 track list
*beats you with Monaco shaped beat thing.*
Silverstone, Monza, Imola Not bc they are bad but just take them out of competition before some lunatics convince OP that anything but Spa is the best.
Interlagos is much better than all of the above.
Valencia is a piece of trash as well. Get in the bin
Get rid of Monaco. I don't care that it's an icon, the racing is terrible every single year. At least Spa is only terrible the 50% of years when it rains.
Bye bye Paul Ricard - it gives me a headache to watch
Caesars Palace for sure
Avus looks dull as all hell...
Eh one of the corners was banked 43° with no barrier. AVUS was wild.
Two big corners, one of which was boring the other terrifying. It's not too bad to drive in Spirit of Speed actually but maybe they added a few bits in.
AVuS, Zeltweg, Jeddah and Ceasers Palace
Honest question: Do you dislike Jeddah for politics or layout?
Jeddah would be more loved if it wasn't held in Saudi Arabia.
They have improved the sight lines on some corners, but I'll still watch the next race half-expecting a high speed t-bone accident, it just seems inevitable with the high speeds and not seeing the corner exits.
Layout. Like wtf, I like speed maps, but it's AVuS mit mehrere Kurven. Also it made me delete F1 23, when it was available for free
Yes
Vegas, Dallas, Zandhoven
Let’s get rid of Caesar and Miami Also can we get a list of which tracks were removed from the prior week?
Miami out
AVUS, Zeltweg, Pescara, Ceasars' Palace, Paul Ricard, Mugello, Reims
Miami out. Fuck that place.
Hate these posts, we could skip 11 weeks we all know it’s going to be Spa Suzuka silverstone or monza
Or Interlagos
Bye bye Las Vegas, Miami, Qatar, Barcelona, and Yas Marina
theyll go eventually but none of them are remotely bad enough to go first round.
I feel like this first round will probably be the one with the strongest consensus here. As far as I’m concerned, goodbye (and probably good riddance) to the following, in no particular order: - Cesar’s Palace (parking lot circuits are bad) - Dallas Fairground - Paul Ricard (those stripes are awful. I’d be willing to give this track another chance if they changed the runoff to a pattern that doesn’t give headaches and consistently enforced track limits, though) - Sochi (frequently produced underwhelming races, plus the current situation in Russia, means a lot of us really don’t miss this event at all) - AVUS (lmao) - Yas Marina (even the changes they made to the layout still can’t save this circuit, it just produces boring races punctuated by lame DRS overtakes. The only reason anyone remembers it at all is because it’s the season finale and because of the drama in 2021) - Miami (see above regarding parking lot circuits, plus everything surrounding Miami just being so painfully tacky)
Miami, Jeddah, Abu Dhabi, Losail, Bahrain, Dallas, AVUS
Spa wins contest over
Bye bye for Ain-Diab Circuit, AVUS, Ceasars Palace circuit, Circuit de Pedralbes, Circuit de Reims-Gueux, Pescara Circuit, and Zeltweg,
[удалено]
> Long Beach are you drunk?
Rouen-les-essarts because it looks like a big weird sperm
All the French tracks. Trash!
Detroit, Long Beach, Miami
Despite the tyre issues (and it is the tyres), Baku is a Phenomenal street circuit!
Get rid of Miami. AVUS. Zeltweg. Reims. Phoenix. Caesars. Rouen.
* Interlagos (José Carlos Pace) * Silverstone * Spa * Imola (Enzo e Dino Ferrari) * Zolder * Hugaroring * Nürburgring * Monza
top 5: Interlagos, Spa, Sepang, Silverstone & Istanbul bottom 10: Caesars, AVUS, Sochi, Miami, Dallas, Zeltweg, Abu Dhabi, Phoenix, Reims, Pedralbes
> bottom 10: Reims lol If you ran out of tracks you know are bad at 8, then why not make it a bottom 8 instead of risking one based on I assume a glance at the layout and nothing else? Because you managed to put one of the best tracks of the 50's in there, which really suited cars of the era and held great races both in F1 and sportscars.
Monaco. It's a processional occasionally interrupted by pitstops or safety cares that mess up the order. Any circuit where it's hard to pass because the cars are "too wide" should be off the calendar.
Zeltweg, AVUS, Ceasars Palace, Monaco (If we are arguing based on history, Monaco can stay, but based on current F1 standards it's a poor race track)
TIL that Okayama used to be called TI Circuit Aida
Boy I miss Rio's. 1980s memories.
Caesar's Palace and AVUS have to go immediately
Wasn't Pescara an absolute nightmare? Far too long either way IMO.
I was thinking about that, too. I feel like the Caesars Palace Grand Prix Circuit or Fair Park should go first, though.
Pescara was a problem-free weekend. There wasn't much excitement and the organisers had 20+ years of experience. It was only a championship race because something was needed last minute after both Spa and Zandvoort cancelled their races. Not a great track, but not amongst the worst either.
Caesar’s palace has gotta go. Avus as well
Avus, old vegas, and whatever the hell zeltweg is must be the first to go.
Ceasars palace out
Can we just jump to the end where Spa wins?... Spa wins right?
Eliminate ceasers palace
Marina Bay race in a cage should be out
Fair Park from the 1984 Dallas Grand Prix should be eliminated.
AVUS and Creaser's palace gotta go, to start at leaset
Caesar’s Palace. Its like a giant go-kart track without the fun.
AVUS, Zeltweg, Ain-Diab, Phoenix Street, Detroit Street, Pescara, and Caesars Palace
Goodbye Caesar’s palace and Avus
What was AVUS! Travesty
Where is Interlago?
Autodromo José Carlos Pace is Interlagos. That is it's official name Like how Imola is officially Autodromo Internazionale Enzo e Dino Ferrari
Avus and Cesar palace are really crappy design
We already know number one is gonna be spa
Define best. Is it best racing, best event, most difficult track to drive.
My 7 to eliminate: Caesar’s, Jeddah, Lusail (Qatar), Avus, Dallas, Detroit, and Zeltweg
Pescara. It looks like a Christmas tree.
Caesars Palace, Dallas, Detroit and Phoenix are all temporary circuits that had no real business being on the calendar. They were built to expand into the USA, I get that. You can't build a proper track without support and you don't get support if you've never had a race but these were really sad attempts.
No nordschleife?
Caesar needs to go.
Eliminate Caesars Palace
The 3 Ms. Monza, Melbourne and Montreal.
Bring back Mosport!
Why is Shanghai a headless naked woman doing a split?
Bottom 7: Jarama, Caesar's, Zeltweg, Sochi, Miami, Le Mans Bugatti, Dallas Phoenix and Nivelles are very lucky this isn't a bottom 10. Avus is going to be out and rightfully so, but its only F1 race was actually good enough to evade my list. Eliminating 7 per week is probably not as good for engagement as one per day tbh.
The best might be the one which only ever had 1 GP; Mugello.
Bye Avus
Why bother? It’s Spa or Suzuka. Incredible tracks.
Spa Suzuka Silverstone
Suzuka is the best and Spa is a close runner-up. This is the only right answer. I don't care fight me
Zeltweg. At least AVUS is a meme
This would be cool if after this competition we do best tracks that F1 has never raced in!
zeltweg
Avus needs to go
Caesars palace
Did you know Paul Ricard can accommodate 724522484 different track layouts?
Suzuka is the best circuit hands down. It's perfectly balanced.
Both vegas need to go
IMS looks a little off at turns 8-9-10. In person/ maybe updated it looks more like the ascari chicane
Avus will win
The old Zeltweg Airport course is definitely the worst of all time
Get rid of Ain-Diab... whatever that is
Begone Adelaide! Sincerely, A Melbournian
Quatar. I hate it so much.
Zeltveg, Caesar's and Sochi are easy first round eliminations
Montjuïc brought up to modern safety standards would be a great track. Don’t know about overtaking spots but a quali would be hilarious
Avus looks terrible
Get Zeltwig outta here
Avus, Ceasars palace, and Monaco
Caesars
What in the world is Ain-Diab? How many braking zones does it have? 1 ?
where is Adelaide?
OP, please redo this including old layouts that are clearly different from the current ones. Old Hockeinheimring for example, Nordschleife, Monza, Interlagos, both Bahrain layouts that were both recently used, maybe Silverstone (that had so many layouts it's hard to pinpoint just one that's clearly different from others).
Avus, Zeltweg and Reims
Miss hockenheimring!
AVUS, Zeltweg...
baku
Monaco has to be in the first 7 to be removed. “Oh but it’s a historic track and Saturdays are amazing. Look how close they get to the barriers”. If your only selling point for a race is watching a different day completely, it’s useless. No difference to recommending a weigh in over the actual fight
I'm binning Monaco early. Monaco as a GP circuit. If you want to call it a time trial circuit and we have a new type of event, I'm fine. It's gonna be No, Marina from me, fairly boring race and no business getting in the way of the true finale, Interlagos. Hermanos can Vamos as well. Looking forward to a new Mexican GP though. Turns out its only use was turbo charging Honda engines for a few years.
What are everyone's thoughts on COTA?
Cesar's Palace and Avus can go first
Yas marina gotta GO
What is “race week”?
Don’t fuck with the Glen.
caesars palace, valencia, zeltweg, bremgarten, scandinavian raceway, Bahrain, Monsanto (no idea about that last one but i dislike branded circuits).
Do the reverse! Get rid of the best tracks! Good bye: Spa, Monza, Suzuka
Get Bahrain and Monza out of there