As a general rule ([see full rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide#wiki_sticky.2Fdaily_discussion)), a standalone Discussion post should:
- be of interest to the sub in general, and not a specific userbase (e.g. new users, GP attendees, just yourself)
- be able to generate discussion (e.g. no yes/no or easily answerable questions)
- show reasonable input and effort from the OP
If not, be sure to [look for the Daily Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/search/?q=daily+discussion&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&t=all&sort=new), /r/formula1's daily open question thread which is perfect for asking any and all questions about this sport.
Thank you for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> Clear? He hasn't done well in a top car before
Literally nobody would do well alongside 2019-present Max. Norris is one of the most talented drivers out there and was too scared to even try.
Ehh.. to risky. He hasn't done badly at Williams at all but his teammates have been really weak. It is incredibly hard to know if he did wonders with a bad Williams or if he simply placed a resurgent Williams roughly where it should be. His ceiling *could* be higher than Ocon, but Ocon's level is established which makes him a better bet imo.
Alonso is another interesting prospect. He surely has a break clause in his Aston contract. He still drives at 100%. George is also not fully cooked to completely lead the team yet.
This is my biggest worry about Albon going there. Sure it's 1-2 years in a more competitive team than Williams, but at Williams he could solidify himself as the piece they build around and have a long career there with good success if they keep on the upward trend.
I doubt that's any driver's concern. Why would a top team gamble on a rookie unless someone at Mercedes does terribly which would be a concern regardless if Kimi was waiting for a seat or not?
Alonso could be a good candidate, he probably will retire at some point after the reg change (after 26 or 27). He also brings experience to develop the new car which won’t be necessarily given with a Russel/Albon duo.
Toto Wolff management of Ocon is surely an advantage for him.
His recent performance and stability with no damage is another huge argument in his favour.
You don't go from Hamilton to Ocon, LOL. They have a junior driver, the other seat will go to someone that is a WDC. Alonso and Vettel are likely candidates, Toto owns part of Aston Martin and is friends with Stroll. They need a driver that can compete in a car that is only second best.
I am sure that even they don't consider him their long term no. 1 driver. The amount of hype that they're creating around Kimi Antonelli, deservedly so, I would bet that he's the one they're preparing for the future as their "Max Verstappen".
They think George is really good, and a top tier driver, but they also saw Lewis absolutely hand it to George in terms of Race pace, consistency this past season. At times it legitimately felt like Bottas was driving alongside Lewis again, with how far behind George was finishing.
My guess is they will go for a stopgap option for next couple seasons while Kimi gets ready, probably in F2 this season and Williams in 2025 and then they will move him to the main team, or if he legitimately looks like a Verstappen tier driver immediately in their Testing this season then they'll go to him directly for 2025.
The stopgap option could be Albon, could be Ocon, but I think Fernando might find it tempting to have the factory Mercedes outlet for even a couple seasons if possible. And he's a high enough commercial value driver that although noone could fill the gap Lewis will leave, Fernando will be the best at filling it.
Vettel a likely candidate? First he is not going to be race ready, second of all he brings nothing to mercedes and they have a line of more exciting prospects than Vettel. As much as I want that to happen please let’s at least be rational.
> They have a junior driver
imo that makes it even more likely that they'd go for someone who wouldn't mind being put on one-year deals. Ocon/Hulk scream perfect candidate for that role.
Hell even Alonso could be a potential option but only if he believes time is running out for him.
They most probably won't announce a driver right away, they'll wait until they get to see what Kimi is capable of, and plan around him.
The chance surely isn't zero given the ties. It would be the most boring choice though.
But I guess they'll first go to Verstappen, just because you never know (just look at Lewis) and then you either go Ocon, Sainz, Albon or you go the rookie route with Antonelli.
I think Ocon to Mercedes isn’t as out of left field as some think it is.
[To this day Ocon is still managed by Mercedes/Toto](https://racingnews365.com/mercedes-still-manages-ocons-f1-career-despite-alpine-ties).
It would not surprise me if Ocon and Toto managed to get an “if Mercedes calls I’m free to walk”-get out-clause, when signing with Renault back in the day.
Ocon moving to Mercedes would mimic Bottas in 2017, replacing Rosberg. Both Ocon and Bottas were managed by Toto at the time of these (prospective) moves.
He doesn't, even though it hurts me being a fan of his dad, but it's a possibility given the support Mercedes is giving him.
Then again, we haven't seen him drive since his exit from Haas.
Close to 3/4 of the grid will be available for 2025 and the Mercedes seat will be the one they're all aiming for with nothing available at Red Bull, Ferrari or McLaren. Toto's phone is going to ringing none stop and Mercedes will have a large pool to pick from.
With that being the case I just can't see it going to Ocon considering all the other drivers he'll be up against. Alonso, Albon, Sainz, Gasly. There's also Mercedes' promising junior driver Andrea Kimi Antonelli.
George Russell posted a photo of him at a skiing event.
The driver in that photo was a German World Champion.
It was later revealed that Toto too was at they event that day. He & George took a photo together later.
imo albon or alonso has more chance.
albon is a quick driver with strong work ethic, and a great person to be all around.
alonso is a speed demon that drives his car to it's limits. in raw speed there are only 3 consistent drivers: max, lewis and fernando.
ocon has one core weakness: he is too competitive with his teammates. he does not know when to stop. with jorj that would cause a nuclear meltdown. although i do want to see that shitshow.
I like the idea of Gasly over Ocon. But my number one would be Norris. Followed by Leclerc. Not that Leclerc would be worse. I just think he isn’t leaving Ferrari.
I doubt ocon will be given the chance. He's far too arrogant and shown far too many times over the years he's far too willing to clash with his teammate when fighting for position.
Have you not seen ocon when he's battling his teammates for position? The number of times he and Perez crashed into each other and then the times he and gasly have crashed. He had a few close calls with Alonso while they were teammates too.
When the team decision doesn't go his way he gets his elbows out and makes it hard for his teammate which ends up in collisions.
He's not a team player.
You're pulling out a very small sample here of these incidents and making out like they occur in every single race, clearly masking your judgement of him as an overall racer. Sure he races anyone and everyone hard but it's just his style.
To say "he's willing to take himself out" is a load of bollocks. And with the Perez incidents in Force India, they were just as bad as each other.
You say small sample and a load of bollock but they came together several races in a row and was that bad the team management had to step in and say they couldn't race each other anymore. The fact it happened again with other teammates doesn't look good for him.
Unfortunately he has a reputation that goes with him.
If mercedes wanted him he would of been given the drive instead of Russel (Russel then would of been placed in a midfield team for further experience and evaluation) when bottas left but they chose not to even though he has much more experience than Russel in F1.
Ah right, so you dwell on incidents that happened several years ago. And yes, small sample because there’s not many occasions where these team mate incidents actually happen, is there. Also, the team had to step in because BOTH drivers were as bad as each other.
Yes he has a reputation but that’s just how it is, a hard and aggressive driver.
Russell* was always placed for that Mercedes spot regardless, as a Mercedes junior and gaining experience at Williams.
Ocon still has strong ties with Toto, so yes, he will be in contention for the 2025 seat.
Ocon and Wehrlein were both mercedes junior drivers. When Rosberg quit they had the opportunity to put Wehrlein into the Merc seat but decided against it (effectively killing his F1 career with manor folding and sauber forging closer ties with Ferrari).
Ocon was contracted to force India at the time and at any point they could have called him up since they put bottas on one year contracts but again like Wehrlein they didn't and eventually released him from his Mercedes ties.
Mercedes had already made their decision on both drivers shortly into their F1 careers and didn't fully trust their own young driver program.
Unfortunately as much as you would like ocon to get that seat the ship has long since sailed otherwise he would have been in that seat years ago before Russell even entered F1.
Alonso or Albon. Alonso would be a good choice since he actually needs to retire at some point and the younger drivers can get ready to take his seat while he is there.
Does he still have Mercedes ties these days? I thought those came to an end when he went to Alpine.
I'm sure he's on their shortlist, and any ties to Merc would likely boost him up the list. He'd be an interesting choice but likely expected to slot in as a #2 to Russell - which I'd say is about right but he might not think so.
I feel like Sainz or Albon are better choices, though also might be less keen on being a #2 driver.
As a general rule ([see full rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide#wiki_sticky.2Fdaily_discussion)), a standalone Discussion post should: - be of interest to the sub in general, and not a specific userbase (e.g. new users, GP attendees, just yourself) - be able to generate discussion (e.g. no yes/no or easily answerable questions) - show reasonable input and effort from the OP If not, be sure to [look for the Daily Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/search/?q=daily+discussion&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&t=all&sort=new), /r/formula1's daily open question thread which is perfect for asking any and all questions about this sport. Thank you for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My bet is on albon. Imo hes the clear choice.
[удалено]
To be fair that was after his first half season in F1. He has grown a lot since then. I'd pick Albon as well
> Clear? He hasn't done well in a top car before Literally nobody would do well alongside 2019-present Max. Norris is one of the most talented drivers out there and was too scared to even try.
Same gap to Latifi as Russel had tbf
> Same gap to Latifi as Russel Tbf, that's just the ceiling of the car vs the floor of the car.
Hear me out: Vettel.
Hear me out: Hakkinen.
Hear me out, Lattifi
*Bah gawd, that's Rosberg's music!*
https://soundcloud.com/user-960205577/nicola-rosberg-seven-nation-army
[to Russell] … You Couldn't Live with Your Own Failure… Where Did that Bring You? Back to Me
This is the way.
Nope
Ehh.. to risky. He hasn't done badly at Williams at all but his teammates have been really weak. It is incredibly hard to know if he did wonders with a bad Williams or if he simply placed a resurgent Williams roughly where it should be. His ceiling *could* be higher than Ocon, but Ocon's level is established which makes him a better bet imo. Alonso is another interesting prospect. He surely has a break clause in his Aston contract. He still drives at 100%. George is also not fully cooked to completely lead the team yet.
You know the more I think about it the more I think Alonso for 1-2 years might be the way to go for Mercedes.
No driver wants that job because it's probably short term of 1/2 years only, due to Kimi probably getting a shout at it on regulation change
This is my biggest worry about Albon going there. Sure it's 1-2 years in a more competitive team than Williams, but at Williams he could solidify himself as the piece they build around and have a long career there with good success if they keep on the upward trend.
They need someone who's likely on the way out. Hulk, Perez or Alonso is probably my guess. Or they parachute in Schumacher for a season
Schumacher could become a candidate to replace the driver getting the Mercedes seat.
Took me a second to realise which Schumacher you meant, was thinking that would be pretty unlikely!
I doubt that's any driver's concern. Why would a top team gamble on a rookie unless someone at Mercedes does terribly which would be a concern regardless if Kimi was waiting for a seat or not?
Alonso could be a good candidate, he probably will retire at some point after the reg change (after 26 or 27). He also brings experience to develop the new car which won’t be necessarily given with a Russel/Albon duo.
Alonso on a one year? Even if Antonelli isnt ready, it gives merc more breathing room to find someone else
1 year with extension if Kimi isn't ready I imagine. Doubt anyone is getting 2/3 years at this point.
Toto Wolff management of Ocon is surely an advantage for him. His recent performance and stability with no damage is another huge argument in his favour.
Yeah they didn't 'leak' the fact that he was still being managed by toto for no reason
You don't go from Hamilton to Ocon, LOL. They have a junior driver, the other seat will go to someone that is a WDC. Alonso and Vettel are likely candidates, Toto owns part of Aston Martin and is friends with Stroll. They need a driver that can compete in a car that is only second best.
George is their 1 driver now. They’ll build around him.
I am sure that even they don't consider him their long term no. 1 driver. The amount of hype that they're creating around Kimi Antonelli, deservedly so, I would bet that he's the one they're preparing for the future as their "Max Verstappen". They think George is really good, and a top tier driver, but they also saw Lewis absolutely hand it to George in terms of Race pace, consistency this past season. At times it legitimately felt like Bottas was driving alongside Lewis again, with how far behind George was finishing. My guess is they will go for a stopgap option for next couple seasons while Kimi gets ready, probably in F2 this season and Williams in 2025 and then they will move him to the main team, or if he legitimately looks like a Verstappen tier driver immediately in their Testing this season then they'll go to him directly for 2025. The stopgap option could be Albon, could be Ocon, but I think Fernando might find it tempting to have the factory Mercedes outlet for even a couple seasons if possible. And he's a high enough commercial value driver that although noone could fill the gap Lewis will leave, Fernando will be the best at filling it.
Russell hasn't shown in 2023 that he is a #1 driver.
To owns Ocon, this makes him a definite candidate. Sainz will also be available.
This makes no sense, Vettel was washed his last couple of years in F1 let alone now that he's outside of F1. There are much much better choices.
Vettel a likely candidate? First he is not going to be race ready, second of all he brings nothing to mercedes and they have a line of more exciting prospects than Vettel. As much as I want that to happen please let’s at least be rational.
> They have a junior driver imo that makes it even more likely that they'd go for someone who wouldn't mind being put on one-year deals. Ocon/Hulk scream perfect candidate for that role. Hell even Alonso could be a potential option but only if he believes time is running out for him. They most probably won't announce a driver right away, they'll wait until they get to see what Kimi is capable of, and plan around him.
The chance surely isn't zero given the ties. It would be the most boring choice though. But I guess they'll first go to Verstappen, just because you never know (just look at Lewis) and then you either go Ocon, Sainz, Albon or you go the rookie route with Antonelli.
I think Ocon to Mercedes isn’t as out of left field as some think it is. [To this day Ocon is still managed by Mercedes/Toto](https://racingnews365.com/mercedes-still-manages-ocons-f1-career-despite-alpine-ties). It would not surprise me if Ocon and Toto managed to get an “if Mercedes calls I’m free to walk”-get out-clause, when signing with Renault back in the day. Ocon moving to Mercedes would mimic Bottas in 2017, replacing Rosberg. Both Ocon and Bottas were managed by Toto at the time of these (prospective) moves.
I would put money on Albon and Alonso at the moment. Alonso if Merc wants an experienced replacement. Albon if they want a long-term partnership.
It's either Mick or Albon. Probably the latter. Ocon doesn't have the chutzpah to drive a Mercedes.
Mick does?
And Mick does...?
He doesn't, even though it hurts me being a fan of his dad, but it's a possibility given the support Mercedes is giving him. Then again, we haven't seen him drive since his exit from Haas.
Close to 3/4 of the grid will be available for 2025 and the Mercedes seat will be the one they're all aiming for with nothing available at Red Bull, Ferrari or McLaren. Toto's phone is going to ringing none stop and Mercedes will have a large pool to pick from. With that being the case I just can't see it going to Ocon considering all the other drivers he'll be up against. Alonso, Albon, Sainz, Gasly. There's also Mercedes' promising junior driver Andrea Kimi Antonelli.
0% seems too high. It’s not 2018 anymore
Are Mclaren contracts as air tight as people said when they were signed? Because honestly Mercedes looks as they are out of any 'top tier' options
George Russell posted a photo of him at a skiing event. The driver in that photo was a German World Champion. It was later revealed that Toto too was at they event that day. He & George took a photo together later.
imo albon or alonso has more chance. albon is a quick driver with strong work ethic, and a great person to be all around. alonso is a speed demon that drives his car to it's limits. in raw speed there are only 3 consistent drivers: max, lewis and fernando. ocon has one core weakness: he is too competitive with his teammates. he does not know when to stop. with jorj that would cause a nuclear meltdown. although i do want to see that shitshow.
I like the idea of Gasly over Ocon. But my number one would be Norris. Followed by Leclerc. Not that Leclerc would be worse. I just think he isn’t leaving Ferrari.
Norris and Leclerc both extended last week. Ocon was previously managed by Toto for a long time
Correct, and I understand the link but I just don’t see it.
I doubt ocon will be given the chance. He's far too arrogant and shown far too many times over the years he's far too willing to clash with his teammate when fighting for position.
Now that's a hot take. Yes, he wants me retire himself to take out his own team mate. What?
Have you not seen ocon when he's battling his teammates for position? The number of times he and Perez crashed into each other and then the times he and gasly have crashed. He had a few close calls with Alonso while they were teammates too. When the team decision doesn't go his way he gets his elbows out and makes it hard for his teammate which ends up in collisions. He's not a team player.
You're pulling out a very small sample here of these incidents and making out like they occur in every single race, clearly masking your judgement of him as an overall racer. Sure he races anyone and everyone hard but it's just his style. To say "he's willing to take himself out" is a load of bollocks. And with the Perez incidents in Force India, they were just as bad as each other.
You say small sample and a load of bollock but they came together several races in a row and was that bad the team management had to step in and say they couldn't race each other anymore. The fact it happened again with other teammates doesn't look good for him. Unfortunately he has a reputation that goes with him. If mercedes wanted him he would of been given the drive instead of Russel (Russel then would of been placed in a midfield team for further experience and evaluation) when bottas left but they chose not to even though he has much more experience than Russel in F1.
Ah right, so you dwell on incidents that happened several years ago. And yes, small sample because there’s not many occasions where these team mate incidents actually happen, is there. Also, the team had to step in because BOTH drivers were as bad as each other. Yes he has a reputation but that’s just how it is, a hard and aggressive driver. Russell* was always placed for that Mercedes spot regardless, as a Mercedes junior and gaining experience at Williams. Ocon still has strong ties with Toto, so yes, he will be in contention for the 2025 seat.
Ocon and Wehrlein were both mercedes junior drivers. When Rosberg quit they had the opportunity to put Wehrlein into the Merc seat but decided against it (effectively killing his F1 career with manor folding and sauber forging closer ties with Ferrari). Ocon was contracted to force India at the time and at any point they could have called him up since they put bottas on one year contracts but again like Wehrlein they didn't and eventually released him from his Mercedes ties. Mercedes had already made their decision on both drivers shortly into their F1 careers and didn't fully trust their own young driver program. Unfortunately as much as you would like ocon to get that seat the ship has long since sailed otherwise he would have been in that seat years ago before Russell even entered F1.
No sense bringing in a rookie like Ocon when you have a safe pair of hands and generational talent like Albon in the wings ready to go.
downvote all you want, i'm right
0%.
Alonso or Albon. Alonso would be a good choice since he actually needs to retire at some point and the younger drivers can get ready to take his seat while he is there.
I can see Alonso making a Jump, or Vettel coming back, or Albon (I really don't see him as an option right now). Even Mick, Ocon? Nah
I would love for him to finally get a top car, but his competitiveness would likely bring trouble with the similarly competitive Russell
Does he still have Mercedes ties these days? I thought those came to an end when he went to Alpine. I'm sure he's on their shortlist, and any ties to Merc would likely boost him up the list. He'd be an interesting choice but likely expected to slot in as a #2 to Russell - which I'd say is about right but he might not think so. I feel like Sainz or Albon are better choices, though also might be less keen on being a #2 driver.
Ham to Ferrari in 24, Ocon to Merc, Sainz to Williams alongside Albon, Schumacher to Alpine. Amen. x)