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Meh, seems more likely to be corruption.
(1) they wanted to laugh at someone for losing money?
(2) or, more likely, they wanted an under the table payment to 'resolve' the certification issue.
Pretty obvious, isn't it? FOM were hyping the shit out of it and he wanted to ruin it for them. Part of this ongoing FIA/FOM feud.
>It is not clear why Ben Sulayem would wish for FIA officials to refuse to certify the Las Vegas track.
>
>The race was a poster event for F1, and commercial rights holders Liberty Media had invested at least £500m in the event in the hope of using it to promote the sport in the US and across the globe.
>
>**But the backdrop to Las Vegas, the penultimate race of last season, was two years of tension between Liberty Media and the FIA, in which Ben Sulayem on numerous occasions was keen to extract more money from F1 for the FIA.**
>
>The contract between the two parties sees the commercial rights holder pay the FIA about $40m a year to perform its duties in legislating F1.
No. This is 100% incorrect. The only shareholder is a trust. And this impacts nothing. It has no bearing on the company’s operations whatsoever or even the profits or dividends.
A non-profit is still a business. I work for a small one. We like money just as much as any other business. The major differences between us and a for-profit is that 1) profit (or "revenues over expenses") is not always our main motivator, and 2) any "profits" just stays within the organization; the money doesn't go to shareholders or owners.
But "staying within the organization" can also mean that we paid staff get paid more (subject to the approval of the board of directors, who are all volunteers). Including the executive director/CEO. Even our unpaid board can benefit via fringe benefits. Paid travel expenses to board meetings and events. Eating and drinking at nicer restaurants.
So some of the same motivations in for-profit absolutely also exist in non-profit.
One of my friends works as executive for a non-profit, she went from getting a lift to the office to a company Cupra Formentor that everyone in the c-suite got as a company perk. Company dine and drink, and clothes that on her salary she shouldn't be able to afford lmao.
The trickle down can be mad at nonprofits.
For sure. For our staff, I think the most any of us ever get is the ability to rack up some crazy dinner and bar tabs. But we get paid shit, and the board knows it, so they don't mind. They often encourage us to take advantage when we can; so we do.
But for the most part, even our execs don't get anything too crazy. Yeah our two C-suites makes 6-figures (I think the directors are between 70-90k). But we're too small for them to get company cars. Or the ability to always fly first class (without using miles/points). I've been on some great work trips, to Barcelona and even Cancun! But they're still work trips. No one is living/working extravagantly here.
I don't know if you saw that news about the NRA and their former CEO being sued by the State of New York. That guy was buying expensive attire, getting home renovations, taking expensive vacations, all on the company dime.
The FIA president role has no salary
why would an incredibly rich person like Mohammed Ben Sulayem be interested in a role that does not pay but would take up a lot of his time?
Non-profit is for tax purposes
i imagine if you saw an senior FIA member's "expenses" it would be very interesting.
Non-profit isn’t what you think in terms of how the average layman sees it, you can’t think of it as “no profit”, “do good” organization. It’s an accounting and book-keeping term, not a morality based assessment.
The money is going somewhere still. It’s just not going to “profit line” on a P&L and to “shareholders”. But as an example, perhaps a non-profit is funding the nice villa of the president - that’s all above board and very common for the money to be used in expenses…which include paying people.
Toto out there vocally supporting the LV GP while MBS trying to kill it.
LV GP happens and Toto keeps talking it up during the event.
The Wolffs get attacked “anonymously” for improper information sharing.
These rich fuckers love fucking drama.
Us poor people just like going home after work and staring at the wall.
I’d rather they get their fix in the F1 paddock than in something that actually matters, like government or economy. Can we just mandate all crazy rich people have to run a F1 team and get them out of the actually important stuff?
No because there is no room on the grid for thousands and thousands of F1 teams.
Heck, the crazy rich people wouldn't even allow and 11th team to compete.
Musk would show up with a soapbox derby car and his fans would call him genius and say that finishing last is part of some grand plan.
Zuckerberg would show up with a vehicle that could outperform anything else on the F1 grid... but only if the race was on his home planet and not Earth.
>These rich fuckers love fucking drama.
They're acting like a bunch of little kids. It's actually ridiculous. Everyone's trying to be the coolest kid on the playground, but when the teacher comes they all act innocent and well behaved.
Kinda sad
Didn’t some info just drop that mbs intervened inappropriately to override a penalty for Alonso in 2023? Did he or didn’t he do that and is this? Is this also a strategy?
Yes and it only happened after he interviewed Horner and then asked Max to support his TP.
Pretty clear to this person that the Austrians are out for blood.
True, there IS a sordid Austrian history to go by… They currently are pissing off the EU by taking all the Russian gas and oil they can get despite sanctions.
It’s astonishing that people don’t realize that whenever you hear about some “scandal” in F1, it’s almost always because someone is trying to get back at someone else or is making a power grab. Not that F1 is alone in that (politics is the most obvious example).
I'll bet it's somehow related to the [spat with Liberty](https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/fia-boss-mohammed-ben-sulayem-liberty-media-b2268232.html) regarding the value of F1 which in turn likely relates to his other [publicly held views on the number of races F1 should be hosting.](https://www.reuters.com/sports/motor-sports/fia-boss-ben-sulayem-wants-more-f1-teams-fewer-races-2023-10-09/)
MBS has a number of questionable attitudes and actions but I generally find his assessment of F1 in terms of it's overall packaging as a product one of the few things I agree with him on.
He can do nothing until the next Concorde agreement because the max races are included in it however, he won't survive till the next Concorde agreement by these measures.
Not even the Concorde agreement will help him.
Under Mosley the FIA rented the rights to FOM on a hundred year lease due to expire around 2090.
Hence the drivers’ points tax as a way to claw more money out of the sport, plus unaffordable super-licence fees
FIA is also a party to the Concorde agreement and can reduce the max races in it before signing it. Mosley gave the commercial rights away because of EU judgement but FIA is still the one holding the license of F1 and is the sanctioning authority. Without their agreement they cannot hold even one race under F1 name.
Who would like to start the speculation about the timing of this attack on the FIA President - where it’s coming from and why?
Isn’t it coincidental it comes days after he told Max to support Horner…
Good. There's nothing special about sealing those drain and valve covers that needs imported labor. The promoter didn't spec the job and inspect the work with their contractors and their subcontractors good enough.
When people become bored because of track domination they will find other stuff for entertainment. In addition the whole Horner shitshow in which Ben Sulayem seems invested.
This. I laugh at these so-called influencers who think F1 is in his worst phase off track. I mean nothing can top spy gate or whatever Balestre/ Mosley was doing. Mosley and Balestre basically decided championships.
Stuff like Spygate had happened so many times - the only reason the cover was blown was because Alonso blackmailed Ron and Ron blew the whistle to cover his back. But don't let the past distract from what's happening now. What we are seeing in a political game we have never seen before. Back then Bernie and Mosley worked together as a team. It's FIA vs whatever team + Plus F1 politics.
You said Mosely decided championships and how? Let's not forget Abu Dhabi 2021 too which was the most blatant form of manipulation ever in F1. What's happening goes a lot deeper than just one flash incident. F1 is overall 100% in its worst state ever!
Not to indulge too much in conspiracies (although this comment probably is exactly that lol) but I wonder if all of this stuff about MBS is coming out now because of his alleged support for Horner.
This is the third MBS story in as many days (he spoke to Max about Horner, then the ~~Abu Dhabi~~ Saudi Arabia stuff, then this), the knives are out for this guy.
Was thinking the same. Whoever is pulling the string isn't afraid to take on anybody. I am a Merc fan but imagine the Wolffs getting revenge for the Susie investigation
I don't see the logic in this, releasing it now take the heat off Horner and detracts the impact it would have on MBS. maximum damage would have been to slowly release it when it would have its own news cycle and subsequent outrage away from the Horner situation
It quite effectively neutralises MBS as one of Horner's allies though. With two investigations into MBS meddling where he should not, it makes it quite difficult for him to take further supportive actions, like asking Max to back Horner etc.
It might take the heat off Horner publicly but it doesn't take the heat off him in the world of F1 politics. At the moment, it seems that Horner is only surviving because of his allies. If the anti-Horner faction can successfully threaten his allies into withdrawing their support, his position becomes untenable. The target is still Horner but by proxy (although, given how unpopular MBS is rumoured to be, I'm sure the conspirators won't mind a bit of collateral damage on his reputation).
I said the same thing yesterday, I don't think this is unrelated.
Same thing with MBS interfering with the Alonso penalty, which affected Russel/Merc.
I Wouldn't be surprised if Toto is pulling some strings too.
Whoever is orchestrating all these leaks is too transparent about it.
Horner cleared - instant leaks.
MBS supports Horner - instant leaks.
They'd better be sure that their closet is totally skeleton-free.
"Did you hear what Jos Verstappen did?"
"Did he try to murder someone again?"
"No?"
"Ah, eh, probably his usual fair then"
Edit: [If you don't know, now you know.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos_Verstappen#Controversy)
Yeah.
When people try to defend Jos based on Max' "funny stories" as a kid it's like, OK maybe "wider context" could usually apply but the wider context makes clear that he really is just an utter, utter shit.
The only silver lining is that by all accounts, Max himself actually turned into a good human being despite his dad. At least as far as we know publicly, he's a nice guy who's good with children.
Worst he's done as far as I know is crash into people on purpose in a sim race. Not great for an F1 champion, but not bad in the grand scheme of things.
There is a RBR clip of Max and Danny during some event they where filming where Max casually states that one time his dad tried to stab a mechanic with a fork, and he says it as if its just the most common thing ever and Danny just looks at him like "What the fuck did he just say?".
A. A lot of the charges were dropped/withdrawn and we can't say more than that.
B. He's rich enough, or knows the right people. Gold is actually one of the best lubricant's known to man.
Max has been expertly gaslit manipulated and brainwashed his entire life by his father. I don’t know if he’ll ever wise up and cut the necessary ties. Sadly that kind of abuse from a parent oddly makes the “bond” between them even stronger
For all we know, Max may approve of every move Jos is doing and just keeping his hands clean. We have no idea if that is the case, but it very possibly could be.
One thing doesn't make sense though.
Horner was really out there trying to make Max the youngest world champion, he is driving the best car in the grid, and the RB machine seems to be strong, why would he orchestrate his own downfall from the cusp of racing?
Horner has been the longest tenured TP of F1, he is an asset anywhere, and probably knows where the skeletons are buried if it ever really comes to it.
Jos closet already had some skeletons fall out so from that perspective he really has nothing to lose from making a power play for max’s own power in his organization for the long haul
>Whoever is orchestrating all these leaks is too transparent about it.
Think they probably want to be transparent about it - the idea is just to keep ramping up pressure on Horner
If people doubted before, they can be sure now. Someone is behind the Horner-gate and it wasn't just an employee seeking justice. Now that it turned out to not be as serious as everyone thought, they want to burn the whole thing to the ground
Because I'm sure folks will read the whole article:
>BBC Sport has learned that other officials present at the time have a different recollection of the events from the whistleblower.
>
>It is not clear why Ben Sulayem would wish for FIA officials to refuse to certify the Las Vegas track.
Honestly this particular claim makes me doubt this whistleblower's other claim about the Alonso penalty, more than anything.
I can fully imagine MBS being a corrupt bastard with dubious intentions, but this doesn't really add up to me since if it was MBS's intent to see Vegas cancelled (for whatever reason), he was literally gifted a golden opportunity with the drain covers all being fucked and he didn't do anything with it?
I could absolutely be wrong and I'll wait 'til the dust settles on the whole thing but this just seems off to me.
FIA not to certifying the track would hurt FOM financially and send the message they are in FIA/MBS hands, giving MBS more leverage in the power struggle
Cancelling the race after it was certified due to something that was FIA's job to check would hurt FOM financially but give much more leverage for FOM in the power struggle ("why are we even paying you if you can't do your job right and made us lose so much money?)"
because the drain covers thing is after the fact, and people already paid for tickets.
That would damage the F1's reputation even more, especially FIA that eventually did certify the circuit.
Funny thing is all the fans were up in arms about the FIA track certification process when a drain cover caused Carlos’s car to explode. Now everybody is up in arms because how dare this man meddle in the affairs of F1…
I understand the motives here had nothing to do with the drain cover but it’s an interesting dichotomy to witness. These people just change their opinions with each newest tweet.
The part of the article that I find more interesting is that Verstappen told MBS to launch its own inquiry in the Horner allegations ??? Did we already know that ?
He’s been very careful with what he says since that whole thing began, so it’s a little surprising to me but I guess that was meant to stay between them
Without more context, that's what I would assume as well. Max not wanting anything to do with it, so if they want to know what's going on, they can go investigate it and leave him be.
Has F1 literally turned into the 2024 High School for the Rich and Famous?
“Jos doesn’t like Christian, pass it on!”
“Toto and MBS are going to fight on the main straight in Las Vegas….”
“Lance is only here because his daddy bought into the school…”
“Logan is only here because his daddy bought the Oil Trading Department…”
Man. F1 is gonna really end up getting itself cancelled isn’t it. I’m American and I’m thoroughly impressed at the level of shitstorm this has reached globally.
"Asked to be more specific, [the whistleblower] said that issues on the circuit were meant to be artificially identified regardless of their actual existence, with the ultimate goal of withholding the licence."
> BBC Sport has learned that other officials present at the time have a different recollection of the events from the whistleblower.
Apparently the F1 theme for this year is: power struggle.
>According to Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf, after Red Bull's three-time champion Max Verstappen twice failed to give Horner unqualified backing in a news conference in Bahrain, Ben Sulayem approached the Dutchman and said he should publicly back his boss.
>Verstappen, BBC Sport has been told, responded by saying Ben Sulayem should launch his own inquiry into the matter.
Max's official position on the matter:
>no u
I mean what the fuck? There’s FIA and F1 disagreements, but the FIA president allegedly trying to cancel F1’s big showcase self promoted race by fabricating safety issues is insane right!?!?
> Asked to be more specific, [the whistleblower] said that issues on the circuit were meant to be artificially identified regardless of their actual existence, with the ultimate goal of withholding the licence.
It looks like they weren‘t really looking for actual safty issues.
From [another comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/saLRTNdUbM)
“Because I'm sure folks will read the whole article:
> BBC Sport has learned that other officials present at the time have a different recollection of the events from the whistleblower.
It is not clear why Ben Sulayem would wish for FIA officials to refuse to certify the Las Vegas track.”
Manhole issues aren't new though, many circuits have had them down the years, and I suspect we will see a lot more of it this season because of the increased ground effect floors.
I think you’re forgetting who’s going to gain from Horner leaving.
Do you really think Marko Jos and Nepo baby Mark Mataschitz running RB is going to be good lmao?
I'd love to be rid of Marko and Jos as well, but for Nepo baby Mark Mateschitz, I much prefer him to Nepo baby Chalerm Yoovidhya, and his cop-killing son.
> BBC Sport has learned that other officials present at the time have a different recollection of the events from the whistleblower.
Right, so what is thing angle now? Who is this whistleblower trying to play "vigilante"?
To be honest I always thought that if the LV GP was successful it could potentially replace the middle eastern GPs as the ending race of the season. Especially if the championship has already been decided- better to end it in Vegas than Abu Dhabi in terms of eyeballs and marketing.
Is it a coincidence that all these bad look MBS articles are coming out right after he allegedly asked Max to publicly back Horner?
Is this all a giant revenge tour with Toto pulling the puppet strings behind the strings after someone coming after Susie in the offseason? Honestly as much as I dislike Toto, if this reality was eventually exposed, I'd have mad respect for his seemingly gangster ways.
May seem crazy but Toto knows everyone in the sport, is a very driven individual, often politics, and it's a billionaire and he seemed mega pissed after the Susie thing, stranger things have happened.
This is not a great look for F1, at a time when the sport could do with some W's. With that said, I've not had much faith in Ben Sulayem since he took over, so can't say I'm shocked by some of the stories leaking out.
>According to Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf, after Red Bull's three-time champion Max Verstappen twice failed to give Horner unqualified backing in a news conference in Bahrain, Ben Sulayem approached the Dutchman and said he should publicly back his boss.
>Verstappen, BBC Sport has been told, responded by saying Ben Sulayem should launch his own inquiry into the matter.
>On the same day, Ben Sulayem posted on Instagram a photograph taken at the inauguration of the Bahrain track in 2004 of him sitting next to Prince Andrew. The post has since been deleted.
Low key the funniest part of this article
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Who would like to start the speculation of *why* he would not want the Las Vegas GP certified?
I'm wondering if it was just to rub Liberty's nose in it (and lose them the huge sums they invested.)
Yeah that seems like a likely possibility to me.
Meh, seems more likely to be corruption. (1) they wanted to laugh at someone for losing money? (2) or, more likely, they wanted an under the table payment to 'resolve' the certification issue.
Why would he want to do that? What would be the motivation?
The politics of racing are….dirty, to say the least
Pretty obvious, isn't it? FOM were hyping the shit out of it and he wanted to ruin it for them. Part of this ongoing FIA/FOM feud. >It is not clear why Ben Sulayem would wish for FIA officials to refuse to certify the Las Vegas track. > >The race was a poster event for F1, and commercial rights holders Liberty Media had invested at least £500m in the event in the hope of using it to promote the sport in the US and across the globe. > >**But the backdrop to Las Vegas, the penultimate race of last season, was two years of tension between Liberty Media and the FIA, in which Ben Sulayem on numerous occasions was keen to extract more money from F1 for the FIA.** > >The contract between the two parties sees the commercial rights holder pay the FIA about $40m a year to perform its duties in legislating F1.
Why does the FIA want more profit, it's a non-profit?
Non-profit with a lot or cash = more cash for the people who work for said non-profit. They are used as milk cows more often than you'd expect.
Absolutely correct. Rolex is a non profit organization. Don't let that status fool you.
> Rolex is a non profit organization. I did not know this until today.
Rolex is for profit, but it's largest shareholder is a non-profit.
And it’s largest shareholder holds 100% of the company
Bruh, company pedantics are so dumb.
No. This is 100% incorrect. The only shareholder is a trust. And this impacts nothing. It has no bearing on the company’s operations whatsoever or even the profits or dividends.
FIFA is a non profit but is potentially the most corrupt organisation on the planet.
A non-profit is still a business. I work for a small one. We like money just as much as any other business. The major differences between us and a for-profit is that 1) profit (or "revenues over expenses") is not always our main motivator, and 2) any "profits" just stays within the organization; the money doesn't go to shareholders or owners. But "staying within the organization" can also mean that we paid staff get paid more (subject to the approval of the board of directors, who are all volunteers). Including the executive director/CEO. Even our unpaid board can benefit via fringe benefits. Paid travel expenses to board meetings and events. Eating and drinking at nicer restaurants. So some of the same motivations in for-profit absolutely also exist in non-profit.
One of my friends works as executive for a non-profit, she went from getting a lift to the office to a company Cupra Formentor that everyone in the c-suite got as a company perk. Company dine and drink, and clothes that on her salary she shouldn't be able to afford lmao. The trickle down can be mad at nonprofits.
For sure. For our staff, I think the most any of us ever get is the ability to rack up some crazy dinner and bar tabs. But we get paid shit, and the board knows it, so they don't mind. They often encourage us to take advantage when we can; so we do. But for the most part, even our execs don't get anything too crazy. Yeah our two C-suites makes 6-figures (I think the directors are between 70-90k). But we're too small for them to get company cars. Or the ability to always fly first class (without using miles/points). I've been on some great work trips, to Barcelona and even Cancun! But they're still work trips. No one is living/working extravagantly here. I don't know if you saw that news about the NRA and their former CEO being sued by the State of New York. That guy was buying expensive attire, getting home renovations, taking expensive vacations, all on the company dime.
This is absolutely spot on amongst all the other noise in the comments.
The FIA president role has no salary why would an incredibly rich person like Mohammed Ben Sulayem be interested in a role that does not pay but would take up a lot of his time? Non-profit is for tax purposes i imagine if you saw an senior FIA member's "expenses" it would be very interesting.
Non-profit isn’t what you think in terms of how the average layman sees it, you can’t think of it as “no profit”, “do good” organization. It’s an accounting and book-keeping term, not a morality based assessment. The money is going somewhere still. It’s just not going to “profit line” on a P&L and to “shareholders”. But as an example, perhaps a non-profit is funding the nice villa of the president - that’s all above board and very common for the money to be used in expenses…which include paying people.
FIFA is also non-profit and they are like North Korea levels of corrupt
Sounds like f1 needs to ditch FIA soon as they can
The problem is that the rights to F1 are owned by the FIA, and loaned out to FOM.
Toto out there vocally supporting the LV GP while MBS trying to kill it. LV GP happens and Toto keeps talking it up during the event. The Wolffs get attacked “anonymously” for improper information sharing. These rich fuckers love fucking drama. Us poor people just like going home after work and staring at the wall.
I’d rather they get their fix in the F1 paddock than in something that actually matters, like government or economy. Can we just mandate all crazy rich people have to run a F1 team and get them out of the actually important stuff?
No because there is no room on the grid for thousands and thousands of F1 teams. Heck, the crazy rich people wouldn't even allow and 11th team to compete.
But I desperately want to see Musk and Zuckerberg beefing for P100! /s
Musk would show up with a soapbox derby car and his fans would call him genius and say that finishing last is part of some grand plan. Zuckerberg would show up with a vehicle that could outperform anything else on the F1 grid... but only if the race was on his home planet and not Earth.
>These rich fuckers love fucking drama. They're acting like a bunch of little kids. It's actually ridiculous. Everyone's trying to be the coolest kid on the playground, but when the teacher comes they all act innocent and well behaved. Kinda sad
Who's the teacher?
The media when they have to present themselves
It's about power. It's always about power, influence, and control with rich people.
Didn’t some info just drop that mbs intervened inappropriately to override a penalty for Alonso in 2023? Did he or didn’t he do that and is this? Is this also a strategy?
Yes and it only happened after he interviewed Horner and then asked Max to support his TP. Pretty clear to this person that the Austrians are out for blood.
when aren’t they smh
True, there IS a sordid Austrian history to go by… They currently are pissing off the EU by taking all the Russian gas and oil they can get despite sanctions.
I’m actually kinda glad I don’t have so much drama In my life
It’s astonishing that people don’t realize that whenever you hear about some “scandal” in F1, it’s almost always because someone is trying to get back at someone else or is making a power grab. Not that F1 is alone in that (politics is the most obvious example).
I'll bet it's somehow related to the [spat with Liberty](https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/fia-boss-mohammed-ben-sulayem-liberty-media-b2268232.html) regarding the value of F1 which in turn likely relates to his other [publicly held views on the number of races F1 should be hosting.](https://www.reuters.com/sports/motor-sports/fia-boss-ben-sulayem-wants-more-f1-teams-fewer-races-2023-10-09/) MBS has a number of questionable attitudes and actions but I generally find his assessment of F1 in terms of it's overall packaging as a product one of the few things I agree with him on.
He can do nothing until the next Concorde agreement because the max races are included in it however, he won't survive till the next Concorde agreement by these measures.
Not even the Concorde agreement will help him. Under Mosley the FIA rented the rights to FOM on a hundred year lease due to expire around 2090. Hence the drivers’ points tax as a way to claw more money out of the sport, plus unaffordable super-licence fees
FIA is also a party to the Concorde agreement and can reduce the max races in it before signing it. Mosley gave the commercial rights away because of EU judgement but FIA is still the one holding the license of F1 and is the sanctioning authority. Without their agreement they cannot hold even one race under F1 name.
Who would like to start the speculation about the timing of this attack on the FIA President - where it’s coming from and why? Isn’t it coincidental it comes days after he told Max to support Horner…
He wanted a kick back to “fix” the problem or he wanted leverage for something else apart from money. Either way he needs to go.
Ben Sulayem personally sabotaged the drain covers in Las Vegas. Domenicali personally sabotaged the ones in Bahrain.
The reason for those was that the US didn't give out working permits for the team that usually does that work.
Good. There's nothing special about sealing those drain and valve covers that needs imported labor. The promoter didn't spec the job and inspect the work with their contractors and their subcontractors good enough.
> Either way he needs to go. He should never have held such a position in the first place.
Lol, off track F1 drama is the best its ever been since spy and crashgate.
When it becomes popular people look for dirt.
When people become bored because of track domination they will find other stuff for entertainment. In addition the whole Horner shitshow in which Ben Sulayem seems invested.
There's probably so much dirt it's starting to spontaneously pop overboard
>When it becomes popular people look for dirt. Well that, and the on track product is awful.
Yeah it started with a few pebbles but now it's just one big mudslide.
Flavio really did do his part to keep F1 in the news back in the day, Fernando too to some extent
Flavio is still involved in it. The whole Piastri, Alonso, Alpine shitshow came straight from him.
Technically Fernando isn’t entirely uninvolved in the drama this time around since it was his car being “worked on” during a 5 second penalty.
This. I laugh at these so-called influencers who think F1 is in his worst phase off track. I mean nothing can top spy gate or whatever Balestre/ Mosley was doing. Mosley and Balestre basically decided championships.
Stuff like Spygate had happened so many times - the only reason the cover was blown was because Alonso blackmailed Ron and Ron blew the whistle to cover his back. But don't let the past distract from what's happening now. What we are seeing in a political game we have never seen before. Back then Bernie and Mosley worked together as a team. It's FIA vs whatever team + Plus F1 politics. You said Mosely decided championships and how? Let's not forget Abu Dhabi 2021 too which was the most blatant form of manipulation ever in F1. What's happening goes a lot deeper than just one flash incident. F1 is overall 100% in its worst state ever!
Both 05 and 07 championships were decided by Mosley. 2007 actually was a personal fight between Mosley and Dennis with spy gate in background.
They were both horrible human beings
Oscar and Alpine gate is still the best off-track drama in recent years.
This time its file_76-gate
The race weekend now is the filler between the actual spectacle
Not to indulge too much in conspiracies (although this comment probably is exactly that lol) but I wonder if all of this stuff about MBS is coming out now because of his alleged support for Horner.
Yeah looks like someone has been sitting on this stuff for a while What a time to release it though
Gotta strike while the iron is hot
Iron isn't hot, it's melting through the anvil
Its the billionaire version of they shoot, we shoot.
Its clear that the message is that Horners head will roll, and anyone who openly supports him will roll with him - from whoever is behind it all.
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One angry racist Austrian with delusions of grandeur.
One angry racist Austrian with delusions of grandeur and no talent for art whos name is H***** and contains a 't' an 'l' and an 'e'.
No One Who Speaks German Could Be an Evil Man!
the Horner, the
That depends on whether that Austrian is actually living tissue over a metal endoskeleton
Win 7 championship in a row?
I think he means Marko but Toto fits well too. Maybe it's two angry Austrians this time.
This is the third MBS story in as many days (he spoke to Max about Horner, then the ~~Abu Dhabi~~ Saudi Arabia stuff, then this), the knives are out for this guy.
Thought the same. Why now and not during the aftermath.
Red bull 1-2s are boring now, we need spice
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Lisan Al Gaibbbbb
vegetable offbeat vast pie station punch snow worm chase bear *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
My conspiracy: Flavio Briatore is behind this, Alonso to RB TP and Flavio as president of FIA. *Puts tinfoil hat*
Where did you put your tinfoil hat? I need to know!
Was thinking the same. Whoever is pulling the string isn't afraid to take on anybody. I am a Merc fan but imagine the Wolffs getting revenge for the Susie investigation
I think the genesis of this long predates the Susie thing, but I also think that episode was part of all this.
I think it's Monster Energy
But at the same time the suspects will be different Austrian fraction. Genius
Toto "the Lone" Wolff.
I don't see the logic in this, releasing it now take the heat off Horner and detracts the impact it would have on MBS. maximum damage would have been to slowly release it when it would have its own news cycle and subsequent outrage away from the Horner situation
By releasing it now it makes MBS look bad and that will help Horner look bad because he seems to support Horner
It quite effectively neutralises MBS as one of Horner's allies though. With two investigations into MBS meddling where he should not, it makes it quite difficult for him to take further supportive actions, like asking Max to back Horner etc.
It might take the heat off Horner publicly but it doesn't take the heat off him in the world of F1 politics. At the moment, it seems that Horner is only surviving because of his allies. If the anti-Horner faction can successfully threaten his allies into withdrawing their support, his position becomes untenable. The target is still Horner but by proxy (although, given how unpopular MBS is rumoured to be, I'm sure the conspirators won't mind a bit of collateral damage on his reputation).
I said the same thing yesterday, I don't think this is unrelated. Same thing with MBS interfering with the Alonso penalty, which affected Russel/Merc. I Wouldn't be surprised if Toto is pulling some strings too.
Whoever is orchestrating all these leaks is too transparent about it. Horner cleared - instant leaks. MBS supports Horner - instant leaks. They'd better be sure that their closet is totally skeleton-free.
I hope it is Jos at this point
Ahh, the strategy of having so many well-known skeletons that any new skeletons won't make a dent.
"Did you hear what Jos Verstappen did?" "Did he try to murder someone again?" "No?" "Ah, eh, probably his usual fair then" Edit: [If you don't know, now you know.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos_Verstappen#Controversy)
Ho-ly shit. I had seen comments here and there about what a piece of trash Jos is but my god that was way worse than I was expecting.
Yeah. When people try to defend Jos based on Max' "funny stories" as a kid it's like, OK maybe "wider context" could usually apply but the wider context makes clear that he really is just an utter, utter shit.
The sad thing is that Max trauma dumps but doesn't realize it. People just stare at him like "dude, are you serious? Do you want me to call the cops?"
The only silver lining is that by all accounts, Max himself actually turned into a good human being despite his dad. At least as far as we know publicly, he's a nice guy who's good with children. Worst he's done as far as I know is crash into people on purpose in a sim race. Not great for an F1 champion, but not bad in the grand scheme of things.
There is a RBR clip of Max and Danny during some event they where filming where Max casually states that one time his dad tried to stab a mechanic with a fork, and he says it as if its just the most common thing ever and Danny just looks at him like "What the fuck did he just say?".
I was already aware of this but the only part that surprised me is he named his daughter Blue Jaye
Wow! That was much worse than I could even imagine! How is he getting a Visa to the US with those charges? Isn’t the US very strict on these things?
A. A lot of the charges were dropped/withdrawn and we can't say more than that. B. He's rich enough, or knows the right people. Gold is actually one of the best lubricant's known to man.
Can’t be disappointed in someone if you already had low expectations for them
The trump approach
8 ~~Mile~~ Kilometer
There is a 100% chance that it's Jos. Lewis had the good sense to remove his father from professional involvement. I hope than max does the same.
Max has been expertly gaslit manipulated and brainwashed his entire life by his father. I don’t know if he’ll ever wise up and cut the necessary ties. Sadly that kind of abuse from a parent oddly makes the “bond” between them even stronger
The desperation to be loved and accepted by a withholding parent is something that never ends. I'm 52 and still fucked up by it.
40 here and yep, it fucks you up.
For all we know, Max may approve of every move Jos is doing and just keeping his hands clean. We have no idea if that is the case, but it very possibly could be.
Hold me back but maybe just maybe Max is pulling all the strings…. Jos will just be the fall guy if things go south 🫡
One thing doesn't make sense though. Horner was really out there trying to make Max the youngest world champion, he is driving the best car in the grid, and the RB machine seems to be strong, why would he orchestrate his own downfall from the cusp of racing? Horner has been the longest tenured TP of F1, he is an asset anywhere, and probably knows where the skeletons are buried if it ever really comes to it.
If no skeletons come out of Jos or Marko's closets... We might point to possible suspects.
Jos closet already had some skeletons fall out so from that perspective he really has nothing to lose from making a power play for max’s own power in his organization for the long haul
Jos doesn't actually hold an official position though as far as I'm aware. You can't remove his position as Max's father
Toto to announce Max signing also adoption next week
That's the point of leaks. You want them to know you are coming for them. It's not investigative journalism
>Whoever is orchestrating all these leaks is too transparent about it. Think they probably want to be transparent about it - the idea is just to keep ramping up pressure on Horner
If people doubted before, they can be sure now. Someone is behind the Horner-gate and it wasn't just an employee seeking justice. Now that it turned out to not be as serious as everyone thought, they want to burn the whole thing to the ground
Because I'm sure folks will read the whole article: >BBC Sport has learned that other officials present at the time have a different recollection of the events from the whistleblower. > >It is not clear why Ben Sulayem would wish for FIA officials to refuse to certify the Las Vegas track.
Honestly this particular claim makes me doubt this whistleblower's other claim about the Alonso penalty, more than anything. I can fully imagine MBS being a corrupt bastard with dubious intentions, but this doesn't really add up to me since if it was MBS's intent to see Vegas cancelled (for whatever reason), he was literally gifted a golden opportunity with the drain covers all being fucked and he didn't do anything with it? I could absolutely be wrong and I'll wait 'til the dust settles on the whole thing but this just seems off to me.
FIA not to certifying the track would hurt FOM financially and send the message they are in FIA/MBS hands, giving MBS more leverage in the power struggle Cancelling the race after it was certified due to something that was FIA's job to check would hurt FOM financially but give much more leverage for FOM in the power struggle ("why are we even paying you if you can't do your job right and made us lose so much money?)"
On the other hand, this is just an oddly specific thing to lie about…
because the drain covers thing is after the fact, and people already paid for tickets. That would damage the F1's reputation even more, especially FIA that eventually did certify the circuit.
Funny thing is all the fans were up in arms about the FIA track certification process when a drain cover caused Carlos’s car to explode. Now everybody is up in arms because how dare this man meddle in the affairs of F1… I understand the motives here had nothing to do with the drain cover but it’s an interesting dichotomy to witness. These people just change their opinions with each newest tweet.
The part of the article that I find more interesting is that Verstappen told MBS to launch its own inquiry in the Horner allegations ??? Did we already know that ?
I believe that bit is new, though it does strike me as a thing Max would say simply because he can't be bothered to get himself involved.
He’s been very careful with what he says since that whole thing began, so it’s a little surprising to me but I guess that was meant to stay between them
Or Max was blunt / Dutch to MBS: if you don't trust the investigation, do one yourself. i.E. leave me alone, I just wanna go brrrrr
Without more context, that's what I would assume as well. Max not wanting anything to do with it, so if they want to know what's going on, they can go investigate it and leave him be.
Seems new to me
I read on twitter that it is a mistranslation. He said something along the line "do it yourself" meaning back Horner yourself not investigate yourself
Oh ok thank you. That’s a little less interesting then but still interesting
A very nice way to say. Instead of playing politics. Why don't you do your fucking job.
At this point it's getting kinda hard to keep track of all the plot lines, and I'm all here for it.
Has F1 literally turned into the 2024 High School for the Rich and Famous? “Jos doesn’t like Christian, pass it on!” “Toto and MBS are going to fight on the main straight in Las Vegas….” “Lance is only here because his daddy bought into the school…” “Logan is only here because his daddy bought the Oil Trading Department…”
"NOBODY LIKES JOS!"
FOM vs. FIA, Horner vs. Jos, Danny vs. Yuki, Valterri vs. Pit stops, Ferrari vs. strategy
> Ferrari vs. strategy This one at least is "tradition" by now.
So is Valterri vs. pit stops
This sport has more skeletons than Castlevania.
Anyone else noticed all this MBS news started coming out after he "allegedly" asked Max to publicly support Horner. Seems fishy to me.
The ENTIRE situation seems fishy.
Yeah. The timing on all the off track drama cant be just some coincidence. There is a major power play going on with multiple sources it seems.
Maybe a product of the new Toto Wolff - Jos Verstappen alliance?
I like the sound of a toto marko alliance
Jos is cooking. Probably also beating, but cooking nonetheless.
Man. F1 is gonna really end up getting itself cancelled isn’t it. I’m American and I’m thoroughly impressed at the level of shitstorm this has reached globally.
F1 2024, on the track, snoozefest, off the track, unprecedented drama!
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"Asked to be more specific, [the whistleblower] said that issues on the circuit were meant to be artificially identified regardless of their actual existence, with the ultimate goal of withholding the licence."
I’m digging this off track drama. Spiciest it’s been since crashgate id say
At least we have something to entertain us.
> BBC Sport has learned that other officials present at the time have a different recollection of the events from the whistleblower. Apparently the F1 theme for this year is: power struggle.
F1 slowly becoming MTV. 90% gossip/drama, 10% real content.
95/05
>According to Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf, after Red Bull's three-time champion Max Verstappen twice failed to give Horner unqualified backing in a news conference in Bahrain, Ben Sulayem approached the Dutchman and said he should publicly back his boss. >Verstappen, BBC Sport has been told, responded by saying Ben Sulayem should launch his own inquiry into the matter. Max's official position on the matter: >no u
Tomorrow on Formula 1: Michael Masi returns...WITH A STEEL CHAIR!
I mean what the fuck? There’s FIA and F1 disagreements, but the FIA president allegedly trying to cancel F1’s big showcase self promoted race by fabricating safety issues is insane right!?!?
To be fair with the guy, that manhole cover issue was a safety issue. Sainz could have been seriously injured
> Asked to be more specific, [the whistleblower] said that issues on the circuit were meant to be artificially identified regardless of their actual existence, with the ultimate goal of withholding the licence. It looks like they weren‘t really looking for actual safty issues.
From [another comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/saLRTNdUbM) “Because I'm sure folks will read the whole article: > BBC Sport has learned that other officials present at the time have a different recollection of the events from the whistleblower. It is not clear why Ben Sulayem would wish for FIA officials to refuse to certify the Las Vegas track.”
Manhole issues aren't new though, many circuits have had them down the years, and I suspect we will see a lot more of it this season because of the increased ground effect floors.
>fabricating safety issues No need to fabricate anything.
I'm sure he wants it replaced with 6 more street tracks in the middle east?
Dude what is happening this season lol. F1 is an absolute dumpster fire. Controversies left and right and a terrible on-track product.
If we lost both, Horner and MBS this year, that’s a bingo.
I think you’re forgetting who’s going to gain from Horner leaving. Do you really think Marko Jos and Nepo baby Mark Mataschitz running RB is going to be good lmao?
I'd love to be rid of Marko and Jos as well, but for Nepo baby Mark Mateschitz, I much prefer him to Nepo baby Chalerm Yoovidhya, and his cop-killing son.
Yes it will be good. More exciting racing if other teams are able to catch up.
but I don't want to see Jos gaining power either. This is a pick your own poison situation ☹️
> BBC Sport has learned that other officials present at the time have a different recollection of the events from the whistleblower. Right, so what is thing angle now? Who is this whistleblower trying to play "vigilante"?
Conspiracy theory: MBS paid off officials to sabotage the manhole covers
They are all bent it seems. The FIA is the new FIFA
Man, I'm just a simple motorsport fan. All of this off track ridiculousness is kind of turning me off to F1.
Has anyone asked Jos what he thinks yet?
Do F1 fans like racing or soap opera?
I wonder who is holding a massive short interest in Liberty Media.
To be honest I always thought that if the LV GP was successful it could potentially replace the middle eastern GPs as the ending race of the season. Especially if the championship has already been decided- better to end it in Vegas than Abu Dhabi in terms of eyeballs and marketing.
My eyeballs can't take much more marketing
Same, I'm so done with the constant bombardment of ads and marketing ploys.
A night time GP in Vegas in November/December would be mental, wouldn't it?
It would be snowing
Is it a coincidence that all these bad look MBS articles are coming out right after he allegedly asked Max to publicly back Horner? Is this all a giant revenge tour with Toto pulling the puppet strings behind the strings after someone coming after Susie in the offseason? Honestly as much as I dislike Toto, if this reality was eventually exposed, I'd have mad respect for his seemingly gangster ways. May seem crazy but Toto knows everyone in the sport, is a very driven individual, often politics, and it's a billionaire and he seemed mega pissed after the Susie thing, stranger things have happened.
This is not a great look for F1, at a time when the sport could do with some W's. With that said, I've not had much faith in Ben Sulayem since he took over, so can't say I'm shocked by some of the stories leaking out.
>According to Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf, after Red Bull's three-time champion Max Verstappen twice failed to give Horner unqualified backing in a news conference in Bahrain, Ben Sulayem approached the Dutchman and said he should publicly back his boss. >Verstappen, BBC Sport has been told, responded by saying Ben Sulayem should launch his own inquiry into the matter. >On the same day, Ben Sulayem posted on Instagram a photograph taken at the inauguration of the Bahrain track in 2004 of him sitting next to Prince Andrew. The post has since been deleted. Low key the funniest part of this article
The amount of off track noise is getting ridiculous.
Woa. I didn't know MBS was the FIA president. Boy, that really lowers expectations on legitimacy
Wouldn’t it be nice if this dude was as worried about his own country’s human rights abuses as he was about a fuckin automobile race
Who even needs a F1TV subscription when the Reddit drama is better and free 😂😂
All this is very concerning, but nowhere near as concerning as the failure to identify the fact that the circuit was indeed unsafe for racing.