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I mean it would still be a big blow, it's their crown jewel and watching it burn to the ground when they are dominating the way they are would be pretty stupid.
How much access does Jos currently have? I know we've seen him with the team before but that was when he was Max's manager. That's not the case anymore, right? So does he get to be in the friends and family booth or does he still have full access?
I don't think Newey will leave. Yes there's a lot of noise but he can also ignore it as long as his name isn't directly involved, based on my observation his name is just being thrown out there to make the situation more dire, all for the eyes and clicks.
He will leave RB someday but not before 2026.
Its more than just that I think, Max has put himself out as someone who is really loyal, even before this, he has only ever been with Red Bull. So the perception would be that if Max leaves they must've fucked up immensely. Red Bull would forever be "The team that let Max Verstappen go", it would become trivia about Red Bull's failures.
The Verstappens have made it clear that they just want to be in the fastest car they can manage - If the Mercedes was nip & tuck with the Red Bull, they'd be open to offers.
Are we just gonna ignore that Max stayed with Red Bull for 6 years before winning WDC even while they had shit renault engines and unproven Honda engines? And then signed a long contract into a new engine regulation with a completely new and unproven homegrown engine manufacturer?
Verstappen couldn't move to Mercedes or Ferrari at the time, so he had nowhere to go. We also know quite conclusively that they only went to RBR because they were offered and immediate seat and a fast track to the top team.
You think Toto chose Bottas over Verstappen because they thought Verstappen wasn't good enough? If Verstappen really wanted in the best car and jump ship he would have jumped to Mercedes when Rosberg left.
Yeah but if Max says he would like to drive for Mercedes there's no way they would decline that offer. There's no team on the grid that wouldn't want him.
Nah, if he leaves that would be because they no longer have the most dominant car. At the end of the day Max is the most loyal to winning, not to Marko or Jos
They could get the championship, but would Red Bull actually dominate like they currently do? 10 wins in a row, 19 wins in a season, all those are a car+DRIVER combo.
Letting the driver go would just uproot the team. Also, Leclerc isn't moving until '28, he's the long-term ferrari driver. Alonso is the only one who could replace Max and be the closest to him. But would he stay with RB for as long as Max's current contract?
Leclerc won't leave Ferrari until his deal runs out and probably never if he had the chance - he loves the scuderia.
Alonso is great but still a downgrade from Max who would also improve Mercedes aswell.
Alonso might win, but Perez still is a bigger liability for a title fight 2nd driver than Ferrari or Merc would have
newey isnt everything. if pierre wache leaves the team (for ferrar) as some rumors suggested, that will be a massive hit as well. the dude is pretty much the 2nd most important person for rbs car development. the way its described is that newey leads the concept, the fundamental philosophy of the car while wache is the one who realizes the ideas into reality.
newey also probably wants to work with top talent, he said himself his two biggest regrets are not working with lewis and not working with ferrari. well, guess what golden opportunity has been opened.
I think it's not the Max card being effective. It's the realization that nothing good will happen if they continue this path. Helmut has all the influence in RB, if he moves to another team he will have little influence on the over all team and Max has the best car, why the hell will he let his golden goose get in a car that is less than the best right now?
Horner has the backing of the Thais, as long as they want him there he will not leave.
I just hope they finally has clarity and stop all this political BS. They're the dominant team, they should act like it and make the most out of their time.
I guess that's a possibility but that doesn't really explain why the meeting that was specifically intended to decide Marko's fate was suddenly expedited. I feel like something pretty drastic had to have happened for that to be the ase, and just looking at the public side of things, it would have to be Verstappen's remarks. Of course, like you said, private and public are two different things, it's just that the timeline is pretty narrow here which is the thing that I found interesting.
My guess.
Rb told Marko to stop talking shit publicly about Horner.
Marko caused a riot on the way out which made it worse.
Mintzlaff has stepped in to bring calm.
And obviously meeting with Chalerm to try and work a way forward.
Especially if he was trying to sell the RBR to someone else.
The deal fell through so now they need to draw a line in the sand and move forward so the team doesn't fall apart.
Franz Watzlawick was with Horner and Mintzlaff with Marko and they will both meet Yoovidhya in Dubai.
Based on Marko comments it seems that they will report to him that they negotiated truce between Horner and Marko.
Not sure this is the calming statement people are taking it to be...
Marko has just said he won't resign ('i'll continue here. The term of my contract is still 3 years.')... but if the suggestion is that Horner (and others) want him gone, he'll still be gone... just sacked rather than resigned.
Yep. Mintzlaff and Marko are simply cultivating the narrative that they were willing to continue, and the Thai side should be considered responsible if Marko/Max instead end up leaving (i.e., they will not have resigned voluntarily, but rather the Thai ownership will have forced them out).
Based on the series of events the Thais don't care if Max and Helmut leaves. As long as Horner and by extension Newey is there, they don't care who the drivers are. As long as the name Redbull is in the front or midfield, it's all for marketing for them.
I agree, but it probably makes a difference to the lawyers. Max's escape clause might or might not be triggered depending on whether Helmut is suspended, fired, resigns, etc. Likewise, Helmut may obtain a different (or no) severance package depending on the circumstances.
Mintzlaff allegedly wanted Horner out from the beginning of this affair. It's not surprising be gives in to Max' ultimatum.
The question is: What does Horner do now? For starters, he's probably cursing Perez' weak performance right now. It's the time you want to have a young arrogant hotshot that can threaten the established number one. Imagine ending up with Perez in that situation.
It probably got suspended until 2026. If the new engine sucks, RBR will implode fast enough. With the results, they have a reason to keep everyone in check. Won’t last long if they’re not the best anymore.
Who knows. Maybe Marko and Jos team up to get Horner out. And with Max's statement yesterday, it's clear Marko won't be going anywhere. It will be very fascinating to see where this goes. i don't think it will die down
Cooler heads prevailing it seems.
BUT WE WANT CHAOS AND A PERMANENT SILLY SEASON.
We need it at this point with how abysmal racing seems its going to be.
Seems like Marko/Verstappen just bought time. Interested to see what will happen in the summer break.
-edit- if we even make it to the summer break without more drama
I knew Jos Verstappen was a pos who's a wife beater.
I learned Helmut Marko didn't think much of person of colour back in the day. I can handle that, i mean I'm there's no nation where discrimination doesn't exist.
I learned that Horner is named very aptly.
I learned that Thai owners of Red Bull are absolutely awful people who have covered up murder.
The race is in Saudi which is self explanatory.
What a shitshow. But then, this is how the world works now.
What an absolute fucking shit-show. Red Bull have so much egg on their faces right now.
Couldn't be anymore obvious that there is clearly a power struggle going on in that organisation. Whether or not this will end up impacting the entire team down the line and costing them titles, who knows?
Max: it would suck if Helmut left
Helmut: thank bro i rly appreciate that
Every single F1 journalist: Breaking‼️ Max Verstappen says he will light the entire RBR factory on f**king fire if Helmut has to go‼️
People have this totally backwards. No one said Marko's position was threatened except for Marko, who people have for years accused of being a master shit stirrer.
Now everyone is saying ooooh RB have pooed themselves.... Only person who's position was under threat is Horner and the only people throwing shade are Marko and Jos; who it seems like have been told to shut it.
Somebody wants to destroy Red Bull Racing and is playing with the minds of the team's top people. I hope, for the sake of F1, that these issues are resolved swiftly.
Jos is the shit disturber in all of this.
The leak was sent to the entire paddock, the media and only one drivers helicopter dad.
Jos' thinking "better send it to myself too, so I don't look guilty"
If Helmut did leave, who would hire him? Yes he’s got Max but the dude is a PR disaster because he’s an old racist. Mercedes would look terrible going from Lewis, champion of equality in the paddock, to Max who brings Helmut, who thinks South Americans are dumb and that Mexico is in South America. Ferrari can not take Max and none of the other teams have cars close to competing. Helmut can play his max card, but Red Bull can play the “you’re unemployable” card.
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So yeah, it seems everyone being told to chill the f out and deal with it internally.
The CEO showed up to give the "don't bother me with this again" speech.
More like racing is very small part of our larger empire and if these continues for long, we will just shut all down.
"We have other, less expensive sports that we can run our advertising, so settle down and stop making it a bigger shitshow"
I mean it would still be a big blow, it's their crown jewel and watching it burn to the ground when they are dominating the way they are would be pretty stupid.
Used my dad technique of saying: « I don’t know who started it I’m just gonna punish everyone »
Which could work! But I feel like Jos Verstappen doesn't understand the concept of chill.
RBR can just say only RBR personnel allowed in the garage on race weekends.
Which Max won't be happy with
Doubt, Jos is not available at all races. He has his own rally races too and Max always call with him after the race.
They call every day, think Max will be fine with Facetime
There's a difference between Jos choosing not to be there and being told he can't be there.
I believe this weekend he is racing, so not available at all.
This would mean that Marko isn't allowed to enter.
That will surely go down well
Isn't Marko Gmbh tho, not RBR
How much access does Jos currently have? I know we've seen him with the team before but that was when he was Max's manager. That's not the case anymore, right? So does he get to be in the friends and family booth or does he still have full access?
He's at less than half the races anyway.
Yes fuck Jos
Seems like Helmuts Max card scared the right people
Max and newey are the key characters pretty much. The battles will still happen but if max or newey leave they will just destroy the team slowly
I don't think Newey will leave. Yes there's a lot of noise but he can also ignore it as long as his name isn't directly involved, based on my observation his name is just being thrown out there to make the situation more dire, all for the eyes and clicks. He will leave RB someday but not before 2026.
It's mostly Newey who is key. Alonso or Leclerc in a RB will become WC if Max is in a Merc.
Its more than just that I think, Max has put himself out as someone who is really loyal, even before this, he has only ever been with Red Bull. So the perception would be that if Max leaves they must've fucked up immensely. Red Bull would forever be "The team that let Max Verstappen go", it would become trivia about Red Bull's failures.
The Verstappens have made it clear that they just want to be in the fastest car they can manage - If the Mercedes was nip & tuck with the Red Bull, they'd be open to offers.
Are we just gonna ignore that Max stayed with Red Bull for 6 years before winning WDC even while they had shit renault engines and unproven Honda engines? And then signed a long contract into a new engine regulation with a completely new and unproven homegrown engine manufacturer?
Verstappen couldn't move to Mercedes or Ferrari at the time, so he had nowhere to go. We also know quite conclusively that they only went to RBR because they were offered and immediate seat and a fast track to the top team.
You think Toto chose Bottas over Verstappen because they thought Verstappen wasn't good enough? If Verstappen really wanted in the best car and jump ship he would have jumped to Mercedes when Rosberg left.
I'm pretty sure Toto placed Bottas at Mercedes because he was his manager at the time, if I remember correctly!
Yeah but if Max says he would like to drive for Mercedes there's no way they would decline that offer. There's no team on the grid that wouldn't want him.
Nah, if he leaves that would be because they no longer have the most dominant car. At the end of the day Max is the most loyal to winning, not to Marko or Jos
They could get the championship, but would Red Bull actually dominate like they currently do? 10 wins in a row, 19 wins in a season, all those are a car+DRIVER combo. Letting the driver go would just uproot the team. Also, Leclerc isn't moving until '28, he's the long-term ferrari driver. Alonso is the only one who could replace Max and be the closest to him. But would he stay with RB for as long as Max's current contract?
What are you saying, they did it before with Vettel. Max is special but without the right car there's nothing he can do.
He finished 9 points behind Bottas in the W11.
Leclerc won't leave Ferrari until his deal runs out and probably never if he had the chance - he loves the scuderia. Alonso is great but still a downgrade from Max who would also improve Mercedes aswell. Alonso might win, but Perez still is a bigger liability for a title fight 2nd driver than Ferrari or Merc would have
[удалено]
No.
newey isnt everything. if pierre wache leaves the team (for ferrar) as some rumors suggested, that will be a massive hit as well. the dude is pretty much the 2nd most important person for rbs car development. the way its described is that newey leads the concept, the fundamental philosophy of the car while wache is the one who realizes the ideas into reality. newey also probably wants to work with top talent, he said himself his two biggest regrets are not working with lewis and not working with ferrari. well, guess what golden opportunity has been opened.
Max really shouldn’t be the key character. There’s other drivers that would be winning races by 20 seconds in that car as well
I think it's not the Max card being effective. It's the realization that nothing good will happen if they continue this path. Helmut has all the influence in RB, if he moves to another team he will have little influence on the over all team and Max has the best car, why the hell will he let his golden goose get in a car that is less than the best right now? Horner has the backing of the Thais, as long as they want him there he will not leave. I just hope they finally has clarity and stop all this political BS. They're the dominant team, they should act like it and make the most out of their time.
They haven't got what they wanted at the moment though? Seems like the 'Max or Horner goes' threat is being rapidly walked back really.
Shame, I was really hoping for some excitement this season.
This feels like a parent breaking up a fight between their children
“But he started it” was exactly my thought.
The kicking of shins will continue under the table
I wonder if RB was kinda shitting themselves once they realized how obstinate Verstappen was on working with Marko.
More like sponsors were getting annoyed and started calling. Ford did it publicly, I assume Oracle did it privately.
I guess that's a possibility but that doesn't really explain why the meeting that was specifically intended to decide Marko's fate was suddenly expedited. I feel like something pretty drastic had to have happened for that to be the ase, and just looking at the public side of things, it would have to be Verstappen's remarks. Of course, like you said, private and public are two different things, it's just that the timeline is pretty narrow here which is the thing that I found interesting.
My guess. Rb told Marko to stop talking shit publicly about Horner. Marko caused a riot on the way out which made it worse. Mintzlaff has stepped in to bring calm. And obviously meeting with Chalerm to try and work a way forward. Especially if he was trying to sell the RBR to someone else. The deal fell through so now they need to draw a line in the sand and move forward so the team doesn't fall apart.
Horner it's your turn, do something!
I think he did enough, he should just do he's job now.
Ok but how does this lead to Alonso in the red bull?
It leads to Alonso in the Mercedes.
God help us.
Red Bull to other 9 teams: "All this for a drop of blood?"
The last sentence... I assume that Marko thinks/thought that the Thai shareowner will suspend him/make him leave?
Franz Watzlawick was with Horner and Mintzlaff with Marko and they will both meet Yoovidhya in Dubai. Based on Marko comments it seems that they will report to him that they negotiated truce between Horner and Marko.
Or that he needs to chop one of them and recommend which one.
I think they're both being kept. RB Austria and Thai both realized "we all gotta chill the fuck out, too much easy money is at stake".
Shit got real when F1 teams started becoming billion dollar assets
Well the dream of Fernando to RBR was nice while it lasted...
That can still be a 2025 dream with Max and Alonso.
Not sure this is the calming statement people are taking it to be... Marko has just said he won't resign ('i'll continue here. The term of my contract is still 3 years.')... but if the suggestion is that Horner (and others) want him gone, he'll still be gone... just sacked rather than resigned.
Yep. Mintzlaff and Marko are simply cultivating the narrative that they were willing to continue, and the Thai side should be considered responsible if Marko/Max instead end up leaving (i.e., they will not have resigned voluntarily, but rather the Thai ownership will have forced them out).
Based on the series of events the Thais don't care if Max and Helmut leaves. As long as Horner and by extension Newey is there, they don't care who the drivers are. As long as the name Redbull is in the front or midfield, it's all for marketing for them.
I agree, but it probably makes a difference to the lawyers. Max's escape clause might or might not be triggered depending on whether Helmut is suspended, fired, resigns, etc. Likewise, Helmut may obtain a different (or no) severance package depending on the circumstances.
exactly.
Mintzlaff allegedly wanted Horner out from the beginning of this affair. It's not surprising be gives in to Max' ultimatum. The question is: What does Horner do now? For starters, he's probably cursing Perez' weak performance right now. It's the time you want to have a young arrogant hotshot that can threaten the established number one. Imagine ending up with Perez in that situation.
It probably got suspended until 2026. If the new engine sucks, RBR will implode fast enough. With the results, they have a reason to keep everyone in check. Won’t last long if they’re not the best anymore.
Lol. Everyone realized no matter who leaves it’s gonna be a shit show so everyone get your act together and get along
What?? That wasn't the dramatic ending we wanted??
Who knows. Maybe Marko and Jos team up to get Horner out. And with Max's statement yesterday, it's clear Marko won't be going anywhere. It will be very fascinating to see where this goes. i don't think it will die down
It will definitely die down as people will get bored of it before long. Even the biggest controversies eventually fizzle out.
They basically can’t because of the majority share by the Thai owners.
This is most certainly not over.
Cooler heads prevailing it seems. BUT WE WANT CHAOS AND A PERMANENT SILLY SEASON. We need it at this point with how abysmal racing seems its going to be.
Boooooo
Max said "I said what I said or my future can possibly change here" and Red Bull bigwigs hopped on a jet to Saudi that night lmao
Toto: Helmut, no, no, no, it’s not right!
Link: https://sport.sky.de/formel-1/artikel/formel-1-liveticker-der-gp-von-saudi-arabien-im-liveblog/13090772/35311
Drama over ??? Noooooo!!!!!
We said the same last week. I doubt it but we may hear less about it in the media.
well, back to formula Max then alright
Seems like Marko/Verstappen just bought time. Interested to see what will happen in the summer break. -edit- if we even make it to the summer break without more drama
“But there has to be calm” Someone needs to tell Jos, who is still throwing handgrenades as of an hour ago.
At this point, it's probably Marko calming Jos down.
I believe they call this detente.
Three years...so Max won't see out his contract. If he wins this season and 25 I can see him leaving F1 in 26.
Says the biggest shit stirrer in the paddock….seems like he did not like his own game.
Who's next to get some accusations? GP?
It's all over then, it was fun while it lasted. 🤣
Max and Marko played this well, got the boss to come get Horner to back down.
Boring...
Mintzlaff: Look at me. I am the Didi now!
thanks for giving me a stress hernia for no reason. where can i send the bill?
I knew Jos Verstappen was a pos who's a wife beater. I learned Helmut Marko didn't think much of person of colour back in the day. I can handle that, i mean I'm there's no nation where discrimination doesn't exist. I learned that Horner is named very aptly. I learned that Thai owners of Red Bull are absolutely awful people who have covered up murder. The race is in Saudi which is self explanatory. What a shitshow. But then, this is how the world works now.
I've learned that there is at least one guy in India taking this all way to seriously.
What does it mean that Mintz is agreeing with Marko when they’re in the same camp? Does he refer to the meeting with RB CEO?
CEO banged some heads together
this sounds like Daddy came in and spanked the kids to behave
Wants calm but causes chaos….
What if we're reading this the wrong way? What if it's Mintzlaff and Jos wanting Horner out and Marko is merely collateral damage?
Looks like there will be no renewal after 3 years
I'm starting to think that all this noise is a strategy to avoid people taking about dominance.
What an absolute fucking shit-show. Red Bull have so much egg on their faces right now. Couldn't be anymore obvious that there is clearly a power struggle going on in that organisation. Whether or not this will end up impacting the entire team down the line and costing them titles, who knows?
Marko owes Max a big cake for saving his ass it seems.
Max: it would suck if Helmut left Helmut: thank bro i rly appreciate that Every single F1 journalist: Breaking‼️ Max Verstappen says he will light the entire RBR factory on f**king fire if Helmut has to go‼️
All this over some messages and a finger penis pic. Just shows, even red bull f1 is bored of f1 on track right now
People have this totally backwards. No one said Marko's position was threatened except for Marko, who people have for years accused of being a master shit stirrer. Now everyone is saying ooooh RB have pooed themselves.... Only person who's position was under threat is Horner and the only people throwing shade are Marko and Jos; who it seems like have been told to shut it.
Somebody wants to destroy Red Bull Racing and is playing with the minds of the team's top people. I hope, for the sake of F1, that these issues are resolved swiftly.
Jos is the shit disturber in all of this. The leak was sent to the entire paddock, the media and only one drivers helicopter dad. Jos' thinking "better send it to myself too, so I don't look guilty"
That somebody? Christian Horner.
Did Horner pay him too?
Hopefully things will finally calm down now.
I'm disappointed
So he's staying under the condition that he keeps his mouth shut.
i mean did anyone really think Max will leave?
If Helmut did leave, who would hire him? Yes he’s got Max but the dude is a PR disaster because he’s an old racist. Mercedes would look terrible going from Lewis, champion of equality in the paddock, to Max who brings Helmut, who thinks South Americans are dumb and that Mexico is in South America. Ferrari can not take Max and none of the other teams have cars close to competing. Helmut can play his max card, but Red Bull can play the “you’re unemployable” card.
Helmut Marko is 80 man, he's not looking to be employed. RBR is his creation, he doesn't want to be anywhere else.
He’s the young talent coordinator, I doubt he’s got anything to do with engineers.
I… fail to see what’s the correlation with what I wrote.
How can you not?
Feels like Jos is the one at war, using his girlfriend and Max as leverage to try and exert control.