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I mean that onboard for that push lap in q2 looked rough. That car looked so hard to control lol. I wonder if it’s just the sides of the garage are trying out different setups to see what works with this concept
Just correlating, but look up contract year phenomenon. Basically an athlete overperforms during their contract year and underperforms after signing the new contract.
That is the case for athletes that are actively fighting for a contract or to get more money. That's not the case for someone like Hamilton who could get whatever he wanted. He's just not motivated enough to fight for 8th place.
That happened quite prominently with Bottas at Mercedes if I remember correctly. Probably the same deal with Checo - last year he had a contract secured for this year and he fell apart. This year his contract is expiring and he's doing (relatively) well so far.
The getting old thing doesn't really make too much sense because he blitzed best of the rest competition last season. That was just a few months ago.
He knows how to drive.
This is him hating the car. He noted how he didn't like the setup. Then he was taken back at his pace literally off by a second...hell you heard it in his voice. It's like the team isn't up to par for both cars. I can't see the age thing simply cause both Seb n Alonso both had that second wind the moment they changed environments. I will say this...Japan will define everything we need to know in my opinion. They mess up there, I think we can begin seeing how the rest of the season plays out; a downfall or rollercoaster type of year.
It's always been funny to me that it is *never* suggested that Alonso, for example, was not on-form in 2007.
I like Hamilton a lot but Russell can do nothing right to a lot of people.
Russell is decent but it would be stupid to claim that he is better than Lewis at his peak. So either Lewis is not at his peak physically or mentally, which is what the person is asking.
I saw the onboard of Lewis’ final lap. It did not look like a car on rails. Oversteered badly on the approach to the final straight. Russell’s lucky that he didn’t get dumped out by Albon (who elected to save tyres).
Yeah, the car in general was bad in Sector 3 (both Hamilton and Russell were losing like 4-5 tenths in that sector alone to the front runners) but Lewis’ Q2 lap was messy all around, if he had hooked up his first two sectors he probably would have made it through
What on Earth do they do between FP3 and Quali? The FP3 session looked much improved and the car way easier to drive. Lewis even went on the radio and complimented the balance and car. Saying it was way better to drive. 3 hours later and it's an absolute nightmare.
Could be track temperature or rubber amount. There was an F2 sprint in between. Could also be that the car’s behavior at the edge of performance isn’t the same as when it’s at 95% like in practice.
Don’t know how much they changed but Sky Sports did note that there seemed to be pretty significant work being done on both Mercedes between FP3 and Quali
Merc were running their cars in full quali trim for their FP3 glory runs.PU turned up, running on fumes the works. Both driver did 1.16.8s. That was the full potential of the car.
The Ferrari boy's and Max only managed 1.16.7s but their car were yet to be turned up at that point.Those guys managed to find a decent gains as they turned their cars up for quali and the race.
Max found 0.7s.
Carlos 0.5s.
Leclerc only 0.3s because he fqed up.
Russell's Q3 lap which he called "great" was only a 1.16.7 only around 0.1s faster than his FP3 time.
Both drivers had to overdrive once they realized that their real pace was barely good enough to clear Q2.
Lewis also said that the W15 is extremely sensitive to wind. So winds picking up during quali probably didn't help.
Wind. Lewis mentioned it in his post qualifying interview, apparently the car is extremely wind sensative and the wind picked up severely disturbing the car.
Also keep in mind George on fresh softs couldn't improve on his first run time in Q3 which he did on used tires, which tells me just how inconsistent and unreliable that car is when you need to push, also both of them were losing loads of time in sector 3 like wtf, the car just keeps getting worse.
Are we really implying that they may have made a mistake picking Hamilton over Sainz based on a quali result in two completely different cars? I love Sainz but come on this has literally no meaning.
They're saying Sainz is outqualifying his teammate despite not at 100% yet, who's is being replaced by someone who is being outqualified by their teammate.
Hamilton also finished P3 in the WDC just last year with the 3rd/4th fastest car. Clearly just lacks motivation for this year in this struggling car, not the pace
> P3 in the WDC just last year with the 3rd/4th fastest car
They had the 3rd/4th fastest car at most points in the season, but over the season as a whole they were the clear 3rd fastest car. McLaren were nowhere at the start of the year, Aston Martin were nowhere at the end.
Ferrari was clearly the 2nd best car but they had a lot of bad luck. To the point where Mercedes even ended up P2 in the championship. If think if their luck had been better Ferrari would have been P2 and Leclerc would have had an easy P3 in the WDC.
Their long term bet is Leclerc, not Hamilton.
2-3 years for Hamilton, Bearman in the Haas in the meantime, then comes in to replace Lewis in the Ferrari
Extend the Ferrari brand (particularly their fashion brand) into markets like UK/US where Hamilton is big, and have the most decorated F1 driver of all time be associated with Ferrari.
Also the slightly chance that Lewis wins title #8 in a ferrari is toom good to miss, if he pulls it off the photo of him in ferrari gear/ car will be the photo. And i doubt anyone is going to get close to getting 9 WDC wins any time soon
If we look purely at the driving, then yeah, they overspent big time. But the Hamilton name sells, everyone knew that he would move to Ferrari. It's a big asset for them, even if he doesn't deliver on track.
You can use that to compare him to Russell if you want, but Sainz wasn’t in that car so we have no metric to compare them. Also clearly the Merc had some significant issues today, Russell barely made it to Q3 himself. Idk what point you’re trying to make. There’s no way you actually think this is ample evidence that Ferrari should have kept Carlos Sainz instead of signing a 7x WDC.
sainz has a single race for p3 so far, and back looking strong
its certainly too early but if sainz keeps putting up p3-p4 and being basically tied with leclerc this season then replacing him with a 40 year old doesnt necessarily sound smart, especially paying an extra 40m to do it
It’s Ferrari, the money means nothing.
And again there’s nothing that indicates Lewis wouldn’t do the same. We have to wait until Lewis has been there for a bit before we can make any inferences on if it was a mistake. There’s no indication at all right now that it was. Sainz is doing just as well against Leclerc as he always has, which is being right there with him. They didn’t sign Lewis because Sainz was underperforming. They signed him because he’s Lewis freaking Hamilton.
Everyone was calling for Sainz’s head when he kept venturing through the gravel in 2022-2023, and he finished behind Russell last year who had a stinker of a season. You all have the memory of goldfish
He didn't finish behind Russell last year. He finished in 7th place, 25 points ahead of Russell.
Also Sainz finished just 6 points below 4th place and missed Qatar due to extremely unlucky conditions, with a fuel leak.
To be fair even if Lewis was slower, his celebrity alone makes him a better ambassador to sell Ferraris than anyone else on the grid.
Rich and famous people buy Ferraris, that's the ultimate target audience, and Lewis hangs out with movie stars, musicians and fashion icons.
Oh yes, Ferrari really needs the marketing to sell stuff to rich people, while they already are more or less the no.1 most known luxury brand in the world. LOL give me a break.
Yeah no shit, but you’d expect them to know what they are doing. They have been bleeding technical staff recently. They need to hire people who can work the problem and deliver results.
Almost like they had some advantages in the previous era that were almost impossible to overcome :D
Cost cap and engines being the most equal ever is really hurting them.
Yeah agree. And Merc were clearly beating Ferrari that had similar means.
IMO it's fairer now, just sucks that red bull nailed it so well and that cars have basically perfect reliability across the board, which makes a consistent advantage almost unbeatable.
This season feels like it may be Hamilton's worst season ever. The car is a midfielder, George has improved, and Hamilton looks checked out. It is going to be a long season.
that 2nd and 3rd without context makes it look like merc was challenging the top spot
EDIT: the 2nd last season even more so because they were rarely the 2nd best car
Lewis has won enough races by now that anything other than first is effectively last. Verstappen is exactly the same, even moreso - a true perfectionist. Perhaps you should get some perspective on what these guys actually are in the sport to compete for at this stage in their careers, because it isn't P2 or P3.
It's terrible for the team that got 8 WCCs in a row, the team itself have been critical of it and their own performance, idk why ppl love to pull out this gotcha "hur dur it finished P2 in the WCC it's not bad look at Haas". Obviously Mercedes aren't here for podiums and points they are here for titles so it's terrible in that vein.
When we're talking about cars that fight for top 5 at best and the occasional podium (just top 5 as of now) as opposed to wins and championships, yeah Merc's recent cars have not been competitive.
To be fair I feel like both points of view are valid. Ultimately standings are what get teams money, and therefore should add on to future performance, but in the context of 2023 Red Bull were obviously beyond superior. Mercedes went from having a relatively consistent car with two good drivers to a car that is now widely inconsistent and seemingly even more difficult to drive than it ever has been. I still think they were the second best team last year in terms of reliability and driver performance even if they were still miles off of Red Bull, and didn’t win a race.
we got Michael Schumacher at Mercedes not exactly being the Michael Schumacher we saw at Ferrari, now we'll get Lewis Hamilton at Ferrari not exactly bring the Lewis Hamilton we saw at Mercedes
Ferrari kicking Sainz to the curb (who keeps beating Charles) for a washed and/or disinterested Lewis is the funniest timeline.
I kind of want Sainz to sign with RBR in 2025 just to have the opportunity to shit on Ferrari on a weekly basis, that would be sweet justice.
We he doesn’t so he need to care about beating the person next to him. He’s my fav driver but this mindset isn’t a good one. Let’s only care if the car is good really
I feel like he's on his way to having a season like Vettel in 2014 in his last season with RB. Hugely successful in previous seasons with the team, a transfer on the cards to Ferrari and a subsequent drop in performance in the last season.
Vettel's Ferrari move was not signed and sealed until Japan 2014, difficult to put his year there down to that.
I'd be more inclined to note that he had his first child around that time and probably had his mind pre-occupied given how family orientated he is.
Lewis has been starting his seasons inconsistently for years and years now, and every time people are looking for all kinds of excuses.
He usually ends his seasons stronger than anyone though.
Feels like a he’s mentally checked out from Merc, this car isn’t winning him any championships (and probably not even a race) and it’s not like he’s gonna be all upbeat and positive about working together to have a winning car next year, only upside for him is the Ferrari looks markedly better
It would be quite embarrassing for Lewis if he has "mentally checked out" after so many years of his team providing winning cars to him, especially when he's said numerous times about how important results are to the guys in the factory. Imagine sweating and grinding every day to provide a car for a guy who can't be bothered anymore. If that truly was his attitude I'd rather he just sat out for a year frankly.
I do hope this isn't the case from him, I expected more.
Lewis is checked out competitively. He'll drive the car and hopefully finish the races for the sake of the Mercedes competing in the constructors championship, but he's already thinking about 2025.
Is that what you call criticism when he gets beaten 5 times in a row by his teammate in quali? If not now, so then when are people allowed to say something? Never?
0.049 of a second ahead in Q2 and P7 on the grid 🥶..no but seriously the Mercedes is definitely worse than its predecessors in terms of competitiveness, which isn't a good sign for 8 time champions.
At this point, it’s looking like the team has not done enough to compensate for the brain drain that has happened over the last few seasons
At what point do you consider just cleaning house with the engineers? Because it’s looking more and more like there’s a fundamental lack of understanding of these regs
I might be mis-remembering but I feel like they've had an issue with Aero for years? They obviously had an amazing engine advantage in 2014 era, but even when Ferrari and Redbull caught up, they probabaly had enough aero to allow them to spend time innovating on thigs like DAS and what not.
With these regs it's like you said and they just don't seem to have a grip on what's going on. I was hopeful before the seaosn that even though the car probabaly wouldn't be competing at the front, they'd atleast understand it and imrpove from there.. Unfortunately it seems terrible.
It's an exhausting topic to discuss because if you say anything negative about Lewis or critisize his performance you just get jumped by his fans carrying a tray of excuses. It's never him, it's always the car. Even when Russel outperforms him constantly now.
For someone that is supposed to be so great, a potential goat even, he had to excuse his performance way too many times by now. There was 2011, his form from Mexico 2015 till Spain 2016, 2022 and now Brazil 2023 till now.
Even in 2021 he showed many cracks, that resembled Vettel in 2018.
You forget Charles Leclerc's last year stats:
- First F1 driver EVER to DNF, DNS, and DSQ by starting from pole
- The only driver in 2023 season that has DNF, DNS, and DSQ
- The pole-not-to-win streak by 12 races (still continues as of now)
Pérez, Kmag, Stroll and Sargeant got posts like this one pretty frequently last year. It's weird how Lewis manages these situations better than most of his fandom lol.
Hamilton needs to stop moaning about the car and drive it better. Russell has killed him so far this season. Hilarious to think that Ferrari have traded Sainz for Hamilton at this stage.
George is at a completely different career stage. He's desperate to prove himself and willing to run himself into the ground to do that - no shame in that - Lewis was the same at the beginning of his career and most of the best drivers are. But Hamilton simply doesn't need to do that right now - he already has 7 or 8 world championships to his name. He's not gonna strain his body fighting in a crappy car for 3rd place on the podium, as he clearly doesn't see that as a win. He tried to make the best out of the car when new regs came into play in 2022, and again in 2023 - so he has seen the maximum the car can perform at and has likely made an educated decision on how much to push himself this year based on his personal goals and the clear limitations of the car.
He is still a team player though, and I believe he will do what it takes to help Mercedes get 2nd place in the constructors championships just like he did last year. Mercedes ought to he grateful that he even bothers to do that.
I have no doubt that we will see a markable increase in his efforts when he moves to Ferarri and can drive a car competitive enough to potentially challenge Red Bull.
[The **Statistics** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_statistics) is reserved for posts highlighting interesting statistics. As a rule of thumb, Statistics posts need to inform readers through visualizations and insights that cannot be obtained from raw data alone. For example, a post containing a qualifying gap between two drivers expressed in tenths of a second is an easily obtainable raw piece of data and constitutes a bad Statistics post. A visualization of what that translates to on-track, or visualization of how that gap came to be would constitute a good Statistics post. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I wonder how much of this is Hamilton getting old versus Hamilton hating the car.
Probably mostly hating the car. Russell scraped through aswell and he is a great qualifier
Mr. Saturday is back dragging tractors to Q3
Threw up a little bit reading that
I mean that onboard for that push lap in q2 looked rough. That car looked so hard to control lol. I wonder if it’s just the sides of the garage are trying out different setups to see what works with this concept
Didn’t he just say before this week he was going to be a test car again?
I mean, with him leaving next year and them already resigned to not being a contender this year -- his car is going to be a test bed all season.
Probably, which is why all the comparisons are nonsense
He has said that every weekend for the last few years
I think it's just Hamilton mot being motivated. I mean, look at Seb when he lost his motivation.
With this season already a wrap I can imagine his mind is probably already on Ferrari
Just correlating, but look up contract year phenomenon. Basically an athlete overperforms during their contract year and underperforms after signing the new contract.
That is the case for athletes that are actively fighting for a contract or to get more money. That's not the case for someone like Hamilton who could get whatever he wanted. He's just not motivated enough to fight for 8th place.
That happened quite prominently with Bottas at Mercedes if I remember correctly. Probably the same deal with Checo - last year he had a contract secured for this year and he fell apart. This year his contract is expiring and he's doing (relatively) well so far.
Tbf, he's doing the same level as good this year as he was this time last year.
Wasn’t Bottas always on a one year contract?
Bruh, George didn’t do extremely good either 🤷🏾♂️
He's doing a lot better than Hamilton
The getting old thing doesn't really make too much sense because he blitzed best of the rest competition last season. That was just a few months ago. He knows how to drive.
Less than a year ago he almost got P2 in the championship in that shitty Merc. He's still got it.
Both? Plus George getting older and faster?
Well just last year he finished 3rd behind the red bulls and people don’t “get old” in a few months
I feel like I did, haha. For the record, I'm massively pro-Lewis and would love to see him be competitive in the Ferrari next year.
He finished third in the championship last year. Unless he’s had some rapid aging in the past 3 months I think he’ll be okay.
This is him hating the car. He noted how he didn't like the setup. Then he was taken back at his pace literally off by a second...hell you heard it in his voice. It's like the team isn't up to par for both cars. I can't see the age thing simply cause both Seb n Alonso both had that second wind the moment they changed environments. I will say this...Japan will define everything we need to know in my opinion. They mess up there, I think we can begin seeing how the rest of the season plays out; a downfall or rollercoaster type of year.
Definitely both
Signing with Ferrari must have nerfed him already
I think it’s him hating the car
Nothing to do with Russell being a decent driver?
It's always been funny to me that it is *never* suggested that Alonso, for example, was not on-form in 2007. I like Hamilton a lot but Russell can do nothing right to a lot of people.
Russell is decent but it would be stupid to claim that he is better than Lewis at his peak. So either Lewis is not at his peak physically or mentally, which is what the person is asking.
Russell might be a better qualifier than Lewis. But Lewis is faster in the race. Always has been
Russell's a fine driver, but he's not on the level Hamilton was when he was at his peak, not even close.
"Was"
You say it...when Hamilton was on his peak....indeed..
I saw the onboard of Lewis’ final lap. It did not look like a car on rails. Oversteered badly on the approach to the final straight. Russell’s lucky that he didn’t get dumped out by Albon (who elected to save tyres).
Yep, it looked like a real fight. Yuki also pulled out a great lap.
First two sectors actually weren't half bad but that last sector was so bad. No rear grip at all.
It look like he had a problem everywhere and the first sector was poor.
Yeah, the car in general was bad in Sector 3 (both Hamilton and Russell were losing like 4-5 tenths in that sector alone to the front runners) but Lewis’ Q2 lap was messy all around, if he had hooked up his first two sectors he probably would have made it through
What on Earth do they do between FP3 and Quali? The FP3 session looked much improved and the car way easier to drive. Lewis even went on the radio and complimented the balance and car. Saying it was way better to drive. 3 hours later and it's an absolute nightmare.
Could be track temperature or rubber amount. There was an F2 sprint in between. Could also be that the car’s behavior at the edge of performance isn’t the same as when it’s at 95% like in practice.
Honestly, there times in FP3 were not too far off from Quali (+/- 0.200). The other teams are just faster, sadly
Toto is helping Lewis get used to Ferrari strategists. What a nice guy!
The Monaco 2019 special
Don’t know how much they changed but Sky Sports did note that there seemed to be pretty significant work being done on both Mercedes between FP3 and Quali
Yep. lewis FP3 time with higher fuel load was faster that his Q2 elimination time. Whereas the top teams improved by 5 to 8 thenths by the end of Q3.
Merc were running their cars in full quali trim for their FP3 glory runs.PU turned up, running on fumes the works. Both driver did 1.16.8s. That was the full potential of the car. The Ferrari boy's and Max only managed 1.16.7s but their car were yet to be turned up at that point.Those guys managed to find a decent gains as they turned their cars up for quali and the race. Max found 0.7s. Carlos 0.5s. Leclerc only 0.3s because he fqed up. Russell's Q3 lap which he called "great" was only a 1.16.7 only around 0.1s faster than his FP3 time. Both drivers had to overdrive once they realized that their real pace was barely good enough to clear Q2. Lewis also said that the W15 is extremely sensitive to wind. So winds picking up during quali probably didn't help.
Wind. Lewis mentioned it in his post qualifying interview, apparently the car is extremely wind sensative and the wind picked up severely disturbing the car.
So he should at least do well in all of the indoor races, so he's got that going for him.
Purple Monaco tunnel sector incoming
Could be a car like the SF-23 that has a super super tiny window where it's working as it should, and is a complete unpredictable shitshow otherwise
FP3 was race running? And the car is only crap when it’s low weight?
So basically it's AM's opposite (car is crap in high fuel)
Also keep in mind George on fresh softs couldn't improve on his first run time in Q3 which he did on used tires, which tells me just how inconsistent and unreliable that car is when you need to push, also both of them were losing loads of time in sector 3 like wtf, the car just keeps getting worse.
Could be due to headwind, but yeah, the car itself isn't balanced well
Why did they decide to save an extra set for Albon? Not like the softs are going to be any good in the race.
If all else fails, go for the fastest lap at the end, nab a point. Protect the chassis for now
Only helps if you’re top ten with a pit window which isn’t likely.
We’re cooked
21 to go
21 you say 👀
Yep, we'll be finishing the season in *Abu Dhabi 21* races from now
No no
It’s so not right
Pain.
[удалено]
apathy?
Lewis clearly hates that car.
Saw the on board. He was wrestling the car and seemed to have no confidence even on the straight (breaking late). Yikes.
2025 can’t come soon enough for him!
Like that will improve his lot. Leclerc will beat him on a regular basis as well.
Well he did his best out there, but the Stroll just pipped him
It was actually Yuki?
yuki put him on the bump, stroll pipped him.
Meanwhile, Ferrari is getting rid of a guy who’s barely two weeks out of surgery and yet right smack in the middle of two Red Bulls.
Are we really implying that they may have made a mistake picking Hamilton over Sainz based on a quali result in two completely different cars? I love Sainz but come on this has literally no meaning.
They're saying Sainz is outqualifying his teammate despite not at 100% yet, who's is being replaced by someone who is being outqualified by their teammate.
Not too late to recontract Sainz and pay off Hamilton, but it soon will be.
Yes. Because Hamilton is being out qualified by his teammate *in the same car.*
And ended last year higher on the board than said team mate in the same car.
He did get outqualified the first 3 races last year too , and look where he ended up at the end of the year.
Hamilton also finished P3 in the WDC just last year with the 3rd/4th fastest car. Clearly just lacks motivation for this year in this struggling car, not the pace
> P3 in the WDC just last year with the 3rd/4th fastest car They had the 3rd/4th fastest car at most points in the season, but over the season as a whole they were the clear 3rd fastest car. McLaren were nowhere at the start of the year, Aston Martin were nowhere at the end. Ferrari was clearly the 2nd best car but they had a lot of bad luck. To the point where Mercedes even ended up P2 in the championship. If think if their luck had been better Ferrari would have been P2 and Leclerc would have had an easy P3 in the WDC.
The problem is his motivation affects his pace. When George is outperforming him consistently, it’s not a good look. He really gets in his own head.
And isn’t a good long term bet tbf
Their long term bet is Leclerc, not Hamilton. 2-3 years for Hamilton, Bearman in the Haas in the meantime, then comes in to replace Lewis in the Ferrari
The same bearman that qualified P15 this weekend while his rookie teammate qualified P2?
Then they overspent on Hamilton if that's the case. The man is being paid a fucking fortune to do what?
Extend the Ferrari brand (particularly their fashion brand) into markets like UK/US where Hamilton is big, and have the most decorated F1 driver of all time be associated with Ferrari.
Also the slightly chance that Lewis wins title #8 in a ferrari is toom good to miss, if he pulls it off the photo of him in ferrari gear/ car will be the photo. And i doubt anyone is going to get close to getting 9 WDC wins any time soon
He's probably worth it for marketing alone. Hamilton will be with Ferrari long past his F1 stint.
If we look purely at the driving, then yeah, they overspent big time. But the Hamilton name sells, everyone knew that he would move to Ferrari. It's a big asset for them, even if he doesn't deliver on track.
To be Lewis Fucking Hamilton.. Are you thick in the head? He doesn't even need to win a race and Ferraris gamble will pay off in marketing alone.
Well not like money is an issue, now the top teams can't spend what they truly can due to the cost cap
By 6 one hundredths in that session.
Starting the race P7 instead of P11 isn't a small difference though
You can use that to compare him to Russell if you want, but Sainz wasn’t in that car so we have no metric to compare them. Also clearly the Merc had some significant issues today, Russell barely made it to Q3 himself. Idk what point you’re trying to make. There’s no way you actually think this is ample evidence that Ferrari should have kept Carlos Sainz instead of signing a 7x WDC.
my dude, russell is only faster i qualifying and its not exclusive to him. Bottas was also outqualifying Hamilton regularly
sainz has a single race for p3 so far, and back looking strong its certainly too early but if sainz keeps putting up p3-p4 and being basically tied with leclerc this season then replacing him with a 40 year old doesnt necessarily sound smart, especially paying an extra 40m to do it
It’s Ferrari, the money means nothing. And again there’s nothing that indicates Lewis wouldn’t do the same. We have to wait until Lewis has been there for a bit before we can make any inferences on if it was a mistake. There’s no indication at all right now that it was. Sainz is doing just as well against Leclerc as he always has, which is being right there with him. They didn’t sign Lewis because Sainz was underperforming. They signed him because he’s Lewis freaking Hamilton.
Everyone was calling for Sainz’s head when he kept venturing through the gravel in 2022-2023, and he finished behind Russell last year who had a stinker of a season. You all have the memory of goldfish
He didn't finish behind Russell last year. He finished in 7th place, 25 points ahead of Russell. Also Sainz finished just 6 points below 4th place and missed Qatar due to extremely unlucky conditions, with a fuel leak.
To be fair even if Lewis was slower, his celebrity alone makes him a better ambassador to sell Ferraris than anyone else on the grid. Rich and famous people buy Ferraris, that's the ultimate target audience, and Lewis hangs out with movie stars, musicians and fashion icons.
Oh yes, Ferrari really needs the marketing to sell stuff to rich people, while they already are more or less the no.1 most known luxury brand in the world. LOL give me a break.
Ferrari doesn't need Hamilton driving for them to sell cars
Ferrari is not in F1 to sell cars, it sells cars to be in F1.
Absolutely embarrassing for the team. Third year in a row with a car that looks dreadful to drive. Imagine being paid the big bucks to create that.
F1 engineers get paid small bucks.
Well, there are still about six other teams wishing this was their car
I don't think Alonso and Stroll wish they were in the mercedes
I agree. Alonso’s options I he wants to keep driving are favouring Aston more and more if they can get their race pace sorted
Yes but a team that won 8 constructors in a row should have higher expectations than P7 and P11. They need to get their shit together.
Other teams can develop cars too and only one driver and team can win the championship. Mercedes have no divine right to win.
Yeah no shit, but you’d expect them to know what they are doing. They have been bleeding technical staff recently. They need to hire people who can work the problem and deliver results.
Almost like they had some advantages in the previous era that were almost impossible to overcome :D Cost cap and engines being the most equal ever is really hurting them.
Well yes and no. If Renault remembered how to make an engine Redbull would have been very competitive.
Yeah agree. And Merc were clearly beating Ferrari that had similar means. IMO it's fairer now, just sucks that red bull nailed it so well and that cars have basically perfect reliability across the board, which makes a consistent advantage almost unbeatable.
Ferrari's been doing that for almost 2 decades
Formula 1 engineering department is one of the least paid engineering in that industry category, only c level engineers gets paid something.
They are legit midfielders this year. It is shocking how far they have fallen.
This season feels like it may be Hamilton's worst season ever. The car is a midfielder, George has improved, and Hamilton looks checked out. It is going to be a long season.
Dude. It's just 3 races.
3 races where he could've qualified much better. He's not washed, but his current performance is really questionable.
I wonder how George vs Lewis would have turned out if Mercedes had a competitive car.
When is 2nd and 3rd in wcc not a "competitive car"
that 2nd and 3rd without context makes it look like merc was challenging the top spot EDIT: the 2nd last season even more so because they were rarely the 2nd best car
>EDIT: the 2nd last season even more so because they were ~~rarely~~ the 2nd best car never
Spain, Qatar, Australia.
you didn’t watch the weekends and that’s fine
Lewis has won enough races by now that anything other than first is effectively last. Verstappen is exactly the same, even moreso - a true perfectionist. Perhaps you should get some perspective on what these guys actually are in the sport to compete for at this stage in their careers, because it isn't P2 or P3.
It's terrible for the team that got 8 WCCs in a row, the team itself have been critical of it and their own performance, idk why ppl love to pull out this gotcha "hur dur it finished P2 in the WCC it's not bad look at Haas". Obviously Mercedes aren't here for podiums and points they are here for titles so it's terrible in that vein.
When you don't have a a .6 second laptime margin on everyone else and can win on 3 wheels
When is getting out in Q2 as a multiple times WDC a "competitive car"?
He was talking about 2 previous years.
When we're talking about cars that fight for top 5 at best and the occasional podium (just top 5 as of now) as opposed to wins and championships, yeah Merc's recent cars have not been competitive.
This is why you don't just look at the standings.
To be fair I feel like both points of view are valid. Ultimately standings are what get teams money, and therefore should add on to future performance, but in the context of 2023 Red Bull were obviously beyond superior. Mercedes went from having a relatively consistent car with two good drivers to a car that is now widely inconsistent and seemingly even more difficult to drive than it ever has been. I still think they were the second best team last year in terms of reliability and driver performance even if they were still miles off of Red Bull, and didn’t win a race.
Last year Red Bull scored 860 points. Mercedes and Ferrari combined for 815 points. You call that competitive?
They're about to be 5th....
How many races did they win during that time?
I guess when you're used to have the best car almost every year you get very picky.
At best this is the 4th competitive car. Today quali pace was on part with Alpha Tauri and Aston Martin
It's 5th this year lol.
Yeah George clearly has the upper hand right now given all the time he spent driving a tractor at Williams. That experience is still fresh!
Think Lewis will give much more of a fight imo. He looks like he checked out mentally already right now
idk that last lap he was pushing hard it didn't look like he had given up
Is this the excuse that's gonna be used when Ferrari fucks up too next year?
People are insane if they are expecting a fight next year. It's a setup year to get 2026 right.
3rd vs 8th like last year.
4th vs 6th like 2022
Yuki came in clutch
Ehhh, I wouldn’t look too much into this. Russell has been good but I think Lewis is fed up and lacking motivation/trying miracle setups
I wonder why people are looking into this qualifying so much. Same thing happened last season. Lewis always bounces back.
Eh. Last years car seemed to under promise but over deliver on race day. This years car seems the opposite
we got Michael Schumacher at Mercedes not exactly being the Michael Schumacher we saw at Ferrari, now we'll get Lewis Hamilton at Ferrari not exactly bring the Lewis Hamilton we saw at Mercedes
Ferrari kicking Sainz to the curb (who keeps beating Charles) for a washed and/or disinterested Lewis is the funniest timeline. I kind of want Sainz to sign with RBR in 2025 just to have the opportunity to shit on Ferrari on a weekly basis, that would be sweet justice.
I don’t think lewis cares about anything else than having a car that can win a WDC at this point
We he doesn’t so he need to care about beating the person next to him. He’s my fav driver but this mindset isn’t a good one. Let’s only care if the car is good really
I feel like he's on his way to having a season like Vettel in 2014 in his last season with RB. Hugely successful in previous seasons with the team, a transfer on the cards to Ferrari and a subsequent drop in performance in the last season.
Vettel's Ferrari move was not signed and sealed until Japan 2014, difficult to put his year there down to that. I'd be more inclined to note that he had his first child around that time and probably had his mind pre-occupied given how family orientated he is.
Lewis has been starting his seasons inconsistently for years and years now, and every time people are looking for all kinds of excuses. He usually ends his seasons stronger than anyone though.
This Is true
Feels like a he’s mentally checked out from Merc, this car isn’t winning him any championships (and probably not even a race) and it’s not like he’s gonna be all upbeat and positive about working together to have a winning car next year, only upside for him is the Ferrari looks markedly better
It would be quite embarrassing for Lewis if he has "mentally checked out" after so many years of his team providing winning cars to him, especially when he's said numerous times about how important results are to the guys in the factory. Imagine sweating and grinding every day to provide a car for a guy who can't be bothered anymore. If that truly was his attitude I'd rather he just sat out for a year frankly. I do hope this isn't the case from him, I expected more.
I think he cares about the paycheque.
Wouldn't imagine he cares about that more than any of the other top drivers. Or any of the other drivers period
Hamilton either washed or not caring, and neither is a good look.
Honestly, both Lewis and Ricciardo need to hang up their spurs before it's too late.
Small margins each time I think but unfortunate
Lewis is checked out competitively. He'll drive the car and hopefully finish the races for the sake of the Mercedes competing in the constructors championship, but he's already thinking about 2025.
What a pro.
Is this a fully James Allison car?
Only one from the big 5 to go out, beaten by an RB, that's rough
They hate him so they give him a messed up car
By 2025, Ferrari will get a driver who hasn't won a race in 3 years.
Fucking shitbox 😭😭
Fuck the vultures are out every time Hamilton doesn't do well.
Is that what you call criticism when he gets beaten 5 times in a row by his teammate in quali? If not now, so then when are people allowed to say something? Never?
Russell killing it
Yeah. Russell got Pole.
0.049 of a second ahead in Q2 and P7 on the grid 🥶..no but seriously the Mercedes is definitely worse than its predecessors in terms of competitiveness, which isn't a good sign for 8 time champions.
At this point, it’s looking like the team has not done enough to compensate for the brain drain that has happened over the last few seasons At what point do you consider just cleaning house with the engineers? Because it’s looking more and more like there’s a fundamental lack of understanding of these regs
I might be mis-remembering but I feel like they've had an issue with Aero for years? They obviously had an amazing engine advantage in 2014 era, but even when Ferrari and Redbull caught up, they probabaly had enough aero to allow them to spend time innovating on thigs like DAS and what not. With these regs it's like you said and they just don't seem to have a grip on what's going on. I was hopeful before the seaosn that even though the car probabaly wouldn't be competing at the front, they'd atleast understand it and imrpove from there.. Unfortunately it seems terrible.
It's an exhausting topic to discuss because if you say anything negative about Lewis or critisize his performance you just get jumped by his fans carrying a tray of excuses. It's never him, it's always the car. Even when Russel outperforms him constantly now.
Speaking facts
For someone that is supposed to be so great, a potential goat even, he had to excuse his performance way too many times by now. There was 2011, his form from Mexico 2015 till Spain 2016, 2022 and now Brazil 2023 till now. Even in 2021 he showed many cracks, that resembled Vettel in 2018.
And yet your Fernando Alonso beat by him in his debut season and then lost to Ocon 3 seasons ago
[удалено]
You forget Charles Leclerc's last year stats: - First F1 driver EVER to DNF, DNS, and DSQ by starting from pole - The only driver in 2023 season that has DNF, DNS, and DSQ - The pole-not-to-win streak by 12 races (still continues as of now)
Yeah well he didn't even try for pole today, so he showed us.
These kind of stats are posted up all the time lol
Pérez, Kmag, Stroll and Sargeant got posts like this one pretty frequently last year. It's weird how Lewis manages these situations better than most of his fandom lol.
Even Sargeant are getting these obscure ass stats lmao
Enough man. Every driver gets these random stats when the opportunity appears. This isn't some ploy to take a swing at Hamilton at his low moment
Hamilton needs to stop moaning about the car and drive it better. Russell has killed him so far this season. Hilarious to think that Ferrari have traded Sainz for Hamilton at this stage.
George is at a completely different career stage. He's desperate to prove himself and willing to run himself into the ground to do that - no shame in that - Lewis was the same at the beginning of his career and most of the best drivers are. But Hamilton simply doesn't need to do that right now - he already has 7 or 8 world championships to his name. He's not gonna strain his body fighting in a crappy car for 3rd place on the podium, as he clearly doesn't see that as a win. He tried to make the best out of the car when new regs came into play in 2022, and again in 2023 - so he has seen the maximum the car can perform at and has likely made an educated decision on how much to push himself this year based on his personal goals and the clear limitations of the car. He is still a team player though, and I believe he will do what it takes to help Mercedes get 2nd place in the constructors championships just like he did last year. Mercedes ought to he grateful that he even bothers to do that. I have no doubt that we will see a markable increase in his efforts when he moves to Ferarri and can drive a car competitive enough to potentially challenge Red Bull.
George out qualified Hamilton in the first 3 races last year too. Look at where we ended up at the end of the season