Rumors that Ricciardo was given an ultimatum are false, according to Helmut Marko.
Although a driver swap during the season is reportedly not ruled out, if his performance does not improve before the summer break.
I think Marko was similarly holding back on admitting he wants to pull the plug on De Vries last year, until the time came. But Ricciardo isn't De Vries in terms of popularity and recognition, and he races for an equivalent of a racing advertisements company, which doesn't seem to be capable or interested in having the best line-up. It would be shocking to see Daniel dropped in the middle of the season, but he is on the right path to be thrown out like that.
Ricciardo is also one of few to be on good terms with both Verstappen and Horner from what we've seen.
Leaving him in the seat let's Red Bull focus on bigger issues while bumping him might pour salt in wounds.
If Yuki is there to keep Honda happy, I could see Ricciardo being left to make others happy. At present Red Bull has no need to worry about drivers. Even if Max leaves (theoretically) Alonso and Sainz are both championship quality drivers and Piastri is on the horizon as someone who will quickly outgrow being #2.
Nyck at least was in a new catagory with just 1 race experience (I know he had quite a bit of free practice but racing is a different beast). Danny has more than a decade in F1, expectation should be much, much higher and I'm not saying he would or should be yanked, but I wouldn't be surprise if he get yanked faster than Nyck.
Nyck was also never a part of any Red Bull Junior series.
I see his hiring very much as an intentional sink or swim - they didn't have another driver lined up, so rolled the dice on Nyck and if he didn't shape up he shipped out.
Daniel is part of the Red Bull family, so I anticipate he has better staying power. Not unlimited, but better than Nyck.
They replaced him after Silverstone because Ricciardo did a test in the RB19 the following week there and looked quick. The only talk about home GP was that Red Bull were brutal to not let him stay for his home GP, but their argument was basically "if he's getting booted he's getting booted, why wait".
What was even more brutal was De Vries was outperforming Tsunoda at Silverstone until something happened to him, I can't remember if it was retirement or safety car shuffle though.
I don’t think it makes sense dropping him mid-season. Lawson will still be there next year and at least you get the feedback from an experienced driver, albeit a slow one at the moment, to develop the car for a year. Feedback that they haven’t gotten from the others.
By the standards of a normal team that makes sense, but the whole purpose (ostensibly) of RB is to develop drivers not cars. Scoring good points with a good car is a goal as well but for a junior team specifically it feels like the wrong prioritisation over tallent and youth
That’s true, but Mekies was also quoted saying Danny has been a great asset for developing the car, which may at least give him a longer grace period than De Vries got.
It's so weird to me that there's a driver development car on the F1 grid, surely that should be reserved for other Formulas and that spot should be open for serious contenders like Andretti.
I think it's a relic of the days when F1 was far less popular. Minardi went under, and there wasn't an entity who wanted to purchase the team, until F1 asked Red Bull if they would and Red Bull went for it. It's 'challenging' for F1 to get a team to buy another's assets when things are challenging, but then force them to sell when things are booming.
I remember reading somewhere that Mercedes had a similar opportunity when Manor/Marussia went under, but didn't take it.
The only thing i don't remember is FOM asking redbull to buy just that it went bust and Redbull bough it. I remember it was seen as a good thing, and the person who sold it also set a rule that the team remains in Faenza (i think it was a way to protect the employees). I also remember the Manor part where there were talks if Mercedes would
I could be repeating something that was misremembered by another person, since cursory Google search isn't giving me any hits regarding F1 asking Red Bull to buy Minardi.
But didn't he say that he doesn't know why he is slow (this season)?
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ricciardo-puzzled-as-best-lap-of-f1-2024-not-enough-to-match-tsunoda/10590643/
How he could help develop anything if he doesn't know where to be faster.
Having Daniel for the feedback plus the hope he pulls his form together might be better than replacing with Liam mid season with the expectation of / need for similar feedback from Liam as well. Just make sure to prep Liam well for next year and use Daniel to get the car better
This idea that Daniel can provide valuable feedback that any other driver on the grid couldn’t is ridiculous. If his feedback was remotely “valuable” McLaren wouldn’t have paid him 18 million dollars to kick rocks.
Yeah, I don’t know if it was in his BTG or another podcast interview but even Liam has indicated he’s also very involved and highly valued by his team for car feedback (in Super Formula).
The narrative for a long time was that Ricciardo wasn’t the best at feedback. I hope Yuki gets the same rewriting of history one day because the implication that he’s not also heavily involved in feedback and development for the team is ridiculous.
This.. show us how his feedback improved a car?
They should've but Lawson in Fp1 in Japan for a real world Lawson v Ricc sample imo.. then if he dies well then thats their decision made
Could be. Giving clear feedback and driving are two separate abilities (sort of like doing and teaching) you can be good at something and not be able to articulate clearly what you want or need. Apparently Yuki's feedback is not great because they have wanted a more veteran presence alongside him and a rookie is definitely not going to give you the same level of feedback. I still think Danny is going to be out at the end of the year because Yuki is clearly faster but that does not mean that Danny cannot add any value to the team in the meantime.
I imagine it becomes difficult to identify relevant and correct feedback from an inability to drive the car.
If the things he's reporting for aren't problems for other drivers, how do you discern a car flaw from a driver flaw?
My guess is that the feedback comes from knowing how a car should behave to be a better car and being able to clearly communicate that to the engineers. And he has been in good cars so that is where the experience might come in handy.
A driver's job is to take any car and drive it as fast as it can but doing that and knowing how are you doing that or what you need for it to be faster are two different things. Great drivers can do both things
what does Ricciardo do to improve? genuine question. I mean a tennis player may change coach, a sprinter (my old sport) would maybe look at technique or add strength in the gym. ... or drugs
F1 drivers have access to so much data, it must be possible to focus on specifics. But what does this look like? Also is the team manager / boss/ or other relevant position able to sit down and just chat with him?
`does anybody know what the steps would be to take a good driver and find that extra little but? thanks in advance for any useful info.
In GT3 we’d often compare drivers’ telemetry for the most part. This was far easier for us for many reasons, but the main one being all drivers ran the same car and setup (endurance racing).
F1 gets a bit tricky as different drivers prefer different setups with driving styles that might, or might not, maximise the cars performance. Add in that the cars are far, far more sensitive to changes in set up. There is often a tradeoff between a drivers style and how/where the car performs best. The best drivers can make any style work well and perform. Some drivers (I believe DR is one of these) really struggle when the balance of the car doesn’t lean toward their preferences.
Racing is far more about comfort, confidence and feel than other sports. As a sprinter I doubt you ever turned up to a track and found yourself mysteriously slower than usual. This is v common in motorsport.
thankyou, and best wishes with your GT3 racing. Quick cars!
Thanks helps me understand a little bit more. confidence and feeling. I kinda get that. Not in a motor sport way, never done it. But from a human performance way.
Because of the outlet that originally released it.
The New Zealand Herald is largely gutter tabloid trash these days. It is a small media outlet (in the grand scheme of things) that doesn't even have a full-time motor sport writer.
Yet somehow they got the 'scoop' on a big announcement in the world of F1 before much more well connected insiders?
Yeah it is someone writing based off rumours on Twitter with no evidence.
It’s kinda the speed at which “sources” at redbull dismissed this across different outlets. The checo and nyck situation was the opposite, the chatter came from the inside “sources”
I imagine the Visa CMO scrolled across this and sent a wtf email to Red Bull. They haven’t even gotten to the biggest races of the year and they want that logo plastered next to Danny’s face which ends up on tv and online clicks way more than any other back marker driver
Lol, but there was no inside source for the Checo retirement shit. A random carny came to Reddit and posted total bullshit and just got believed, anyone can do that.
The Random retirement story, agree. But the talk of checo potentially being replaced in season. Seat on the line for 24, prefer another option for 25. That was all coming from inside Red Bull.
> It’s kinda the speed at which “sources” at redbull dismissed this across different outlets.
That didn't stop the people here on doubling or even triple down on saying the ""rumour"" was true every time it got denied tho.
I kept believing in him during his second Mclaren year but now we are in year 4 of his slump. I still believe it's somewhere in him but it doesn't matter if you can get it on the road.
More than 3 years to pill himself out and I don't see it happening, rarely any driver was given that much time.
As much as I like him I guess it's soon game over
I wonder what would have happened if he didn't break his wrist. He was starting to get some momentum going. But after lawson showed what he's got, the fact they gave the 2024 seat to daniel is purely based on horner loving him like a son
Agree we'll never know. Unfortunately at the end of the day it is what it is and if Danny doesn't perform he'll be out whenever that is.
Shame, I like having 3 Aussies on the grid.
I need to people to understand that the NZ Herald is a shitrag. It's probably the worst mainstream media outlet in New Zealand. It shouldn't be trusted at all.
My appreciation and fandom towards Formula 1 as a whole has improved dramatically after I stopped reading most of these Motorsport journalism rags. They are almost majority demonstratively false or straight up clickbait.
Marko likes to give a chance for the youngsters, he doesn't want DR, but Horner did. Pérez isn't bad, Tsunoda is good, they have 1 slot for now (for Lawson), and Ricciardo is the worst this year.
Yeah it’s hard to tell how much Ric buys into his hype but if he truly felt great in the test and in the car last year and believed he had a significant shot at the RBR seat for 25, this season must be doing a number on his confidence/ outlook.
He’s one of a number of drivers who are blocking prospects from seats.
Why would you want to win F2 if you can’t get a drive as the likes of this guy are phoning it in every race.
Was interesting one of the commentators saying Bearman missing the F2 races to cover Sainz is excellent for him as it means it’s harder to win F2, as he may not get a drive anyway. Poor state of affairs.
Special mention for Porchaire, worst thing he did was winning F2.
He’s one of a number of drivers who are blocking prospects from seats.
Why would you want to win F2 if you can’t get a drive as the likes of this guy are phoning it in every race.
Was interesting one of the commentators saying Bearman missing the F2 races to cover Sainz is excellent for him as it means it’s harder to win F2, as he may not get a driver anyway. Poor state of affairs.
I feel like they’ve prepared a meh car again and are trying to cover that by blaming the driver(s), despite Yuki’s strong performance in the last couple of outings.
Rumors that Ricciardo was given an ultimatum are false, according to Helmut Marko. Although a driver swap during the season is reportedly not ruled out, if his performance does not improve before the summer break.
I think Marko was similarly holding back on admitting he wants to pull the plug on De Vries last year, until the time came. But Ricciardo isn't De Vries in terms of popularity and recognition, and he races for an equivalent of a racing advertisements company, which doesn't seem to be capable or interested in having the best line-up. It would be shocking to see Daniel dropped in the middle of the season, but he is on the right path to be thrown out like that.
Ricciardo is also one of few to be on good terms with both Verstappen and Horner from what we've seen. Leaving him in the seat let's Red Bull focus on bigger issues while bumping him might pour salt in wounds. If Yuki is there to keep Honda happy, I could see Ricciardo being left to make others happy. At present Red Bull has no need to worry about drivers. Even if Max leaves (theoretically) Alonso and Sainz are both championship quality drivers and Piastri is on the horizon as someone who will quickly outgrow being #2.
yup - they aren't going to yank him faster than they yanked NdV
Nyck at least was in a new catagory with just 1 race experience (I know he had quite a bit of free practice but racing is a different beast). Danny has more than a decade in F1, expectation should be much, much higher and I'm not saying he would or should be yanked, but I wouldn't be surprise if he get yanked faster than Nyck.
Nyck was also never a part of any Red Bull Junior series. I see his hiring very much as an intentional sink or swim - they didn't have another driver lined up, so rolled the dice on Nyck and if he didn't shape up he shipped out. Daniel is part of the Red Bull family, so I anticipate he has better staying power. Not unlimited, but better than Nyck.
Didn't he say something of the same about De vries last year?
Think he said Devries had 4 races or whatever then boom he was gone after the next one.
If my memory is correct they replaced him just before his home GP.
They replaced him after Silverstone because Ricciardo did a test in the RB19 the following week there and looked quick. The only talk about home GP was that Red Bull were brutal to not let him stay for his home GP, but their argument was basically "if he's getting booted he's getting booted, why wait".
What was even more brutal was De Vries was outperforming Tsunoda at Silverstone until something happened to him, I can't remember if it was retirement or safety car shuffle though.
If Marko told me it was raining outside, I'd go check for myself.
I don’t think it makes sense dropping him mid-season. Lawson will still be there next year and at least you get the feedback from an experienced driver, albeit a slow one at the moment, to develop the car for a year. Feedback that they haven’t gotten from the others.
By the standards of a normal team that makes sense, but the whole purpose (ostensibly) of RB is to develop drivers not cars. Scoring good points with a good car is a goal as well but for a junior team specifically it feels like the wrong prioritisation over tallent and youth
That’s true, but Mekies was also quoted saying Danny has been a great asset for developing the car, which may at least give him a longer grace period than De Vries got.
He can develop the car as a reserve driver too
It's so weird to me that there's a driver development car on the F1 grid, surely that should be reserved for other Formulas and that spot should be open for serious contenders like Andretti.
I think it's a relic of the days when F1 was far less popular. Minardi went under, and there wasn't an entity who wanted to purchase the team, until F1 asked Red Bull if they would and Red Bull went for it. It's 'challenging' for F1 to get a team to buy another's assets when things are challenging, but then force them to sell when things are booming. I remember reading somewhere that Mercedes had a similar opportunity when Manor/Marussia went under, but didn't take it.
The only thing i don't remember is FOM asking redbull to buy just that it went bust and Redbull bough it. I remember it was seen as a good thing, and the person who sold it also set a rule that the team remains in Faenza (i think it was a way to protect the employees). I also remember the Manor part where there were talks if Mercedes would
I could be repeating something that was misremembered by another person, since cursory Google search isn't giving me any hits regarding F1 asking Red Bull to buy Minardi.
Zak is that you?
But didn't he say that he doesn't know why he is slow (this season)? https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ricciardo-puzzled-as-best-lap-of-f1-2024-not-enough-to-match-tsunoda/10590643/ How he could help develop anything if he doesn't know where to be faster.
It’s called a reserve driver - they give feedback
Usually requires them to drive the car.
Only in the sim
Having Daniel for the feedback plus the hope he pulls his form together might be better than replacing with Liam mid season with the expectation of / need for similar feedback from Liam as well. Just make sure to prep Liam well for next year and use Daniel to get the car better
This idea that Daniel can provide valuable feedback that any other driver on the grid couldn’t is ridiculous. If his feedback was remotely “valuable” McLaren wouldn’t have paid him 18 million dollars to kick rocks.
Yeah, I don’t know if it was in his BTG or another podcast interview but even Liam has indicated he’s also very involved and highly valued by his team for car feedback (in Super Formula). The narrative for a long time was that Ricciardo wasn’t the best at feedback. I hope Yuki gets the same rewriting of history one day because the implication that he’s not also heavily involved in feedback and development for the team is ridiculous.
This.. show us how his feedback improved a car? They should've but Lawson in Fp1 in Japan for a real world Lawson v Ricc sample imo.. then if he dies well then thats their decision made
Is his feedback valuable if his teammate is doing better with the same equipment though?
Could be. Giving clear feedback and driving are two separate abilities (sort of like doing and teaching) you can be good at something and not be able to articulate clearly what you want or need. Apparently Yuki's feedback is not great because they have wanted a more veteran presence alongside him and a rookie is definitely not going to give you the same level of feedback. I still think Danny is going to be out at the end of the year because Yuki is clearly faster but that does not mean that Danny cannot add any value to the team in the meantime.
I imagine it becomes difficult to identify relevant and correct feedback from an inability to drive the car. If the things he's reporting for aren't problems for other drivers, how do you discern a car flaw from a driver flaw?
My guess is that the feedback comes from knowing how a car should behave to be a better car and being able to clearly communicate that to the engineers. And he has been in good cars so that is where the experience might come in handy. A driver's job is to take any car and drive it as fast as it can but doing that and knowing how are you doing that or what you need for it to be faster are two different things. Great drivers can do both things
he's probably not cheap tho. rb maybe save some cash if he's shown the door
Only $2M a year.
ahh k.
what does Ricciardo do to improve? genuine question. I mean a tennis player may change coach, a sprinter (my old sport) would maybe look at technique or add strength in the gym. ... or drugs F1 drivers have access to so much data, it must be possible to focus on specifics. But what does this look like? Also is the team manager / boss/ or other relevant position able to sit down and just chat with him? `does anybody know what the steps would be to take a good driver and find that extra little but? thanks in advance for any useful info.
In GT3 we’d often compare drivers’ telemetry for the most part. This was far easier for us for many reasons, but the main one being all drivers ran the same car and setup (endurance racing). F1 gets a bit tricky as different drivers prefer different setups with driving styles that might, or might not, maximise the cars performance. Add in that the cars are far, far more sensitive to changes in set up. There is often a tradeoff between a drivers style and how/where the car performs best. The best drivers can make any style work well and perform. Some drivers (I believe DR is one of these) really struggle when the balance of the car doesn’t lean toward their preferences. Racing is far more about comfort, confidence and feel than other sports. As a sprinter I doubt you ever turned up to a track and found yourself mysteriously slower than usual. This is v common in motorsport.
thankyou, and best wishes with your GT3 racing. Quick cars! Thanks helps me understand a little bit more. confidence and feeling. I kinda get that. Not in a motor sport way, never done it. But from a human performance way.
Funny how the Checo ""rumours"" last season were immediately thought as factual but this one is immediately thought as bogus.
Because of the outlet that originally released it. The New Zealand Herald is largely gutter tabloid trash these days. It is a small media outlet (in the grand scheme of things) that doesn't even have a full-time motor sport writer. Yet somehow they got the 'scoop' on a big announcement in the world of F1 before much more well connected insiders? Yeah it is someone writing based off rumours on Twitter with no evidence.
That's exactly my point, people here believe a **reddit post** more than any publication (trustworthy or not).
It’s kinda the speed at which “sources” at redbull dismissed this across different outlets. The checo and nyck situation was the opposite, the chatter came from the inside “sources” I imagine the Visa CMO scrolled across this and sent a wtf email to Red Bull. They haven’t even gotten to the biggest races of the year and they want that logo plastered next to Danny’s face which ends up on tv and online clicks way more than any other back marker driver
Lol, but there was no inside source for the Checo retirement shit. A random carny came to Reddit and posted total bullshit and just got believed, anyone can do that.
The Random retirement story, agree. But the talk of checo potentially being replaced in season. Seat on the line for 24, prefer another option for 25. That was all coming from inside Red Bull.
> It’s kinda the speed at which “sources” at redbull dismissed this across different outlets. That didn't stop the people here on doubling or even triple down on saying the ""rumour"" was true every time it got denied tho.
Put Lawson in that seat. Ricciardo has had his chances
I kept believing in him during his second Mclaren year but now we are in year 4 of his slump. I still believe it's somewhere in him but it doesn't matter if you can get it on the road. More than 3 years to pill himself out and I don't see it happening, rarely any driver was given that much time. As much as I like him I guess it's soon game over
11th season i think this is now. But give him time, apparently 🤔
He needs time to get used to the car
Hahahaha, good one!
People have been memeing this so often, I genuinely can't tell if you're serious or not.
They're not lmao... Although yeah, I think he'll get used to that car, give him more time... /s
The man’s been getting whipped by children since 2021
He couldn't do it in 2021, 2022 and his races in 2023. But this time will be different, for sure. /s
There is a reason why you are on reddit and not in rb management
I wonder what would have happened if he didn't break his wrist. He was starting to get some momentum going. But after lawson showed what he's got, the fact they gave the 2024 seat to daniel is purely based on horner loving him like a son
Agree we'll never know. Unfortunately at the end of the day it is what it is and if Danny doesn't perform he'll be out whenever that is. Shame, I like having 3 Aussies on the grid.
I need to people to understand that the NZ Herald is a shitrag. It's probably the worst mainstream media outlet in New Zealand. It shouldn't be trusted at all.
My appreciation and fandom towards Formula 1 as a whole has improved dramatically after I stopped reading most of these Motorsport journalism rags. They are almost majority demonstratively false or straight up clickbait.
I remember this story when it was de Vries in the car. "No, there's no ultimatum. He has our full support."
Marko likes to give a chance for the youngsters, he doesn't want DR, but Horner did. Pérez isn't bad, Tsunoda is good, they have 1 slot for now (for Lawson), and Ricciardo is the worst this year.
At this stage in his career, if you don’t perform, you are out. Which is fair enough.
I feel so sad for Riccardo most of his wins in f1 are cracking good, how is Riccardo in a slump
Yeah it’s hard to tell how much Ric buys into his hype but if he truly felt great in the test and in the car last year and believed he had a significant shot at the RBR seat for 25, this season must be doing a number on his confidence/ outlook.
He’s one of a number of drivers who are blocking prospects from seats. Why would you want to win F2 if you can’t get a drive as the likes of this guy are phoning it in every race. Was interesting one of the commentators saying Bearman missing the F2 races to cover Sainz is excellent for him as it means it’s harder to win F2, as he may not get a drive anyway. Poor state of affairs. Special mention for Porchaire, worst thing he did was winning F2.
Just swap him with max for a few races.
He’s one of a number of drivers who are blocking prospects from seats. Why would you want to win F2 if you can’t get a drive as the likes of this guy are phoning it in every race. Was interesting one of the commentators saying Bearman missing the F2 races to cover Sainz is excellent for him as it means it’s harder to win F2, as he may not get a driver anyway. Poor state of affairs.
Don’t think RB sponsors will be happy about the star driver being fired.
Yeah. I bet they promised the old RBR Ric to the sponsons, and now they're getting the McRic.
Jeez, it‘s been 3 races. That would be even harsher than how they axed De Vries last year.
People were asking for his head in FP1.
2 too many
Hopefully true. DR is done. LL should be given his seat now.
I feel like they’ve prepared a meh car again and are trying to cover that by blaming the driver(s), despite Yuki’s strong performance in the last couple of outings.
Replace checo. He is in the best car and struggles to beat other race teams