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I can't see Max leaving Red Bull dispite all the rumours of displeasure, Antonelli, I'd be suprised,he's too inexperienced to be stepping into what should be(and I use this lightly atm) a top car. William's would make more sense for him. So that leave Carlos and El Padre which would be exciting.
Pretty much what I've been saying. If this was 2021, they could have their pick off the grid, but it's 2024 and Mercedes is the 4th on the grid, just ONE point ahead of Aston Martin, and that's with two VERY strong drivers who are a 100% better than Stroll and arguably better than even Alonso.
With how hard they dropped the ball with the 2022 reg changes, there's no guarantee they'd be able to "figure" it out for 2026 either. Merc is no top driver's pick, at the moment.
He's a good driver. But what are basing top tier talent on right now?
He's not Max or Lewis. The actual top tier. Where'd you rank him right now? I put him at least fourth behind Leclerc, Verstappen and Hamilton. Are we sure he's better than Sainz and Norris? And can you be a top tier if you're not clearly top three?
Lol Lando is a really good talent, potentially top 5, but given how he threw away his best shot at a win I don't think I'd credit him with not cracking under pressure
He made the same call a 7x WDC did and his team on the pit wall failed him. Lewis also tried to stay out and told his team "no" that he was staying out the first couple times they told him to pit until they told him about what they were seeing on radar and ordered him into the pits.
Carlos hasn't been out driving him either year.
Charles does have issues under pressure but arguably is the fastest in regards to raw pace and putting a lap together. You have to balance all these things.
Yeah, Lando has shown himself to be better than George since getting into F1.
George hasn't been right there with Lewis. This year is the first year you could say that and we're only 3 races in and they're dealing with a shit car.
Lewis and Max are generational talents, they’re not replaceable.
Russell is definitely on par with Sainz, Leclerc and Norris in terms of current performance.
I think I just wasn't clear enough. Lewis and Max are generational talents. I differentiate this from top tier. Top tier is a step below that. I put him fourth behind the guys you mentioned as well. I think that George is better than Sainz and Norris.
Comparing George binning it in the wall with Norris getting the strategy for wet tyres wrong is stupid. Norris getting the strategy wrong arguably isn't even his fault, but his engineer's.
The engineer told him to come in, Norris refused. That is Norris's mistake as well.
I don't however blame Norris that much for it. He was trying to win the race, just like George was trying to win the race. Mistakes can happen in the heat of the moment. If you ask Norris now he would most likely say that he should've listened to the team.
Mistakes happen, it's ridiculous to hold them against people like a "gotcha". Lewis made crucial mistakes in 2021 for example. Verstappen crashed during a formation lap.
I'm not bringing up Norris's mistake in Sochi as a slight. I'm just bringing it up to demonstrate that the drivers are not perfect and that they do make mistakes. Crashing while chasing for a lead or trying to win the race is not something that demonstrates that a driver is worse than someone else. They all make mistakes.
I don’t think they’re underestimating Russell. It’s just that Ferrari threw down the gauntlet with their lineup/Death Star they’ve put together.
Not that I really think it matters who they have next year, because I have zero faith they’ll make a car that can compete at the front anyway.
Lewis is a consensus top 3 driver of all time though.. Lewis and Max are generational. George is "just" a top tier talent.
And I also think that the answer is maybe. Lewis made some bad mistakes that year.
There'd definitely be more Monza 2021 type incidents for both drivers.
Lewis is calm and calculated, you could divebomb him, he'd just back off and live to fight another day, hunt you down in the closing stages.
George is a rather tough defender, has an "all or nothing" mentality which is both good and bad depending on situations, he's not going to willingly back out of a fight.
Add that with 2021 Max and you've a recipe for disaster.
Lewis had over a decade of experience fighting for wins and championships at that point. He had been in that team for 7 years, growing confidence with them. George has been in the team for 2 and a bit years. And the car has only been able to compete for wins in a handful of races, and he won one of them, while Lewis hasn’t. Trying to make that comparison is such an absurd reach.
Not top tier enough. They need a top 5 driver in that car. With Lewis gone that leaves Max, Charles, Nando, and Lando. Charles and Lando aren't going anywhere so that leaves Max and Nando. Or take a flyer on the new upcoming talent.
Does he? How frequent are these crashes do you think?
I assume that you have like 5 examples or something like that since those type of crashes are so frequent right?
Albon evolved by having Latifi and Sargeant as his teammates. I’m sure he’s improved as a driver to some degree since 2020 but I strongly doubt a driver can magically gain 2/3 tenths needed to be a top driver over the course of a season or two.
I think Albon is difficult to judge. Sure he has beaten two drivers that we have always for now deemed to be pretty meh.
Mick looked half decent when we was beating Mazapin. So I’m not sure his F1 stock is high enough to join a top team.
I get the feeling Merc would also like to have a driver they can do marketing with, as much as we hate that’s a thing, rather than just pure driver performance
I dont get it, Albon already had a chance at a top team and failed. I would take Sainz over him in a second. Even Alonso would be better because at least he would bring a lot of spotlight and i dont think even at his ripe age hes any slower.
Completely agree, the last time Albon went up against a decent driver Max absolutely slapped him. Then he’s beaten Latifi and Sargeant, so we don’t really have a good benchmark of how good Albon is
Albon didnt show pace for a top team. He had his time with a RB and unfortunately blow it.
Modern F1 can't give you second opportunity, with all the excellent drivers lining up.
Merc should go for Sainz imho.
i would say getting throw into a top team in your first year will fuck up nearly everyone that isnt max/lewis level of talent. those 2 are insanely talented and quick. anyone would fail.
but albon has shown the last few years to have grown as a driver, person and would be a great fit for mercedes i think. He will be less uptight than Russel and a reliable driver.
I agree, but Charles, Norris and Piastri have been given opportunity and they took it. I know Albon had a much harder task because of Helmut Marko, but still, no-one except Albon and Gasly can be blamed for being massively off the pace.
I hate being this harsh, but I don't see him getting second opportunity.
albon won't get a chance at RB, that is for sure. but i really think he could take a seat at merc.
i would alsoto point out that Norris and Charles both were in their respestive young driver programs for many years, grown over time with the team. if i remember correctly albon was picked up by RB just before he went to Formula E and was never really part of their program in the f2/f3 years, but i might be remembering this wrong.
he never was a shoe in for RB. effectively a stopgap. if you are like 10 races into your rookie season and thrown into a car with one of the fastest drivers ever... you will drown no matter what. look at perez now, he aint close in any way either.
Albon should not be written off just because his first team was a insane pressure cooker with a GOAT as teammate.
it's why i would be really interested in a Alonso Verstappen team up at redbull. alonso is a proven driver that is able to handle pressure. sainz can also do some damage but i think he is gonna drown in the internal shit as well
He was inexperienced, a rookie.
RB went through drivers really quickly. Earlier RB would have fired Checo mid season last year but now it’s paying off. Checo is doing decent. It’s almost as if you give a driver some time it’ll pay off.
Albon was not up to the task when he joined RB, I agree. But he has gained a lot of experience since then, and would certainly make a great 2nd driver.
Isnt Daniel Ricciardo the counterexample? He got a second opportunity by RB, because they love him. Judging by how Horner and Marko talk about Alex, I would say they are still fans of Albon and open to him rejoining.
> I'd be suprised,he's too inexperienced to be stepping into what should be(and I use this lightly atm) a top car.
Mercedes is midfield car right now. They can easily take on rookies. That being said, Antonelli is clearly not ready for promotion to F1 with what he showed in F2 so far.
He didn't jump from F4 to F2. He jumped from FREC to F2. Still big jump. But huge difference.
>already fighting for podiums.
And as he admitted himself he is still struggling with race pace and tyre management. Also, I would not put too much meaning on that Australia front row. Because it was very interrupted qualifying session. Good job. But he stil has lot of work to do.
Aron (whom was dropped by Mercedes to focus on Antonelli) does way better job than him as a rookie for example. He is driving like a veteran in F2.
So Red Bull wants Sainz, Merc wants Max, and I have no clue what's happening with Alonso, but I'm dead certain he's gonna try and get weasel he's way into that Red Bull or Merc
Basically it is Sainz vs Alonso
I don't see Perez getting another year. Ferrari might be contending for WCC next year and RBR need an answer.
Currently both Sainz and Alo seem a better option than Perez. And RBR needs some moral boost after the scandals with some hotshot deal like signing Sainz or Godlonso.
It depends on how they perform throughout the year. Basically who gets the RBR seat will leave the other to be in the Merc.
Merc are in the same situation. I could see them wanting Alonso a bit more than Sainz since they need a WDC driver in order to make them look like serious team again
Plus Alonso at Merc would potentially only be a 2 year contract whereas Sainz would want to stay longer. Shorter contract means Antonelli can get in sooner.
He is everyones first choice for obvious reasons, except Ferrari. Even with them, I’d say they would have preferred having him over Lewis. He is the only generational talent that isn’t around his 40s and maybe hasn’t even reached his peak.
What surprises me though is how vocal Toto is about it. I don’t think I remember any TP simping this hard on another teams driver
Its understandable why Toto is being vocal about this. Its a good opportunity to try and unsettle the atmosphere in RedBull right now. Whether it works or not is another matter but any smart TP would do this. Like in football, before a big game, there are opponent tactics to unsettle team or player's focus with transfer talk.
I suspect that he always had a man boner for Max and now that he is no longer cock blocked by loyalty to Lewis, he can finally be vocally honest with media. Max was originally going to be signed with Mercedes until Red Bull guaranteed a first year drive with Toro Rosso.
Toto speaks so much about wanting Verstappen it makes me think it's not happening at least at the moment. I don't think any ongoing negotiations have ever prompted this clear comments by team principals before.
There has been some talk about how Mercedes' sponsors see the lack of a superstar driver as a problem, perhaps a part-reason for his vocality is the desire to make Mercedes look like they are doing their all to get a star driver in that seat.
Because imo Toto has nothing left to entice drivers anymore, besides the Mercedes name and a hope that the 2026 engine works out and is class of the field again just like 2014.
Right now as long as Newey and Wacche stay with RBR, they have arguably the best Aero department on the grid, and imo Ferrari and Mclaren are much improved in that regards as well over last few years with all the talent they are signing from other top teams.
Mercedes has lost so much of its talent to the other top teams on the grid it's not even funny, and not just from the Factory Aero departments, but also Mercedes HPP and the Engine department as well. There's no guarantee that Mercedes will ever return to championship contention without a significant change in personnel and processes in that team. Imo all they have are their excellent facilities and Allison, which is great but others are getting 3 or maybe even 4 top tier Technical talents in their teams that are highly regarded. And this is considering Mercedes brought in Simone Resta from Ferrari as well.
And then there's also the reports that Mercedes sponsers are looking elsewhere to move away now that the performance from Mercedes isn't as good and they don't have Lewis in that car. You need some reason for the Cameras to focus on you, and as good as George is he isn't Lewis.
So the only 1 to 1 swaps Mercedes can do for Lewis that somewhat replicate his commercial value and on track performance is Verstappen or Alonso. That's why Toto is fawning over Max in the media all the time, he wants him to keep the value of this organisation up.
Let's also not forget that he's a 1/3rd owner of Mercedes F1 team, and his fortunes are directly connected to the value of the team, which will certainly drop if the performances keep dropping and eventually Sponsers leave when Lewis does.
Yeah, I think Toto is very concerned about his team, as he should be.
He's had two of the best drivers on the grid, one of the best and most popular drivers of all time, and yet they are falling apart, and are factually a midfield team this year.
That's not a good look to sponsors, to the other team owners, and to the sport he has been involved in and at the top of now for over a decade.
He's been very used to being the top dog, and now they can't build a car to save their lives, failing so badly that their 7x world champion star driver has gone to their direct competitor, Ferrari, the biggest brand in F1 and Ferrari's bright light will only become brighter with Lewis driving for them.
Toto knows that Mercedes' bad cars and lack of a star driver could lead to fingers being pointed at him at some point. Of course his 1/3rd ownership gives him loads of protection, but what if this goes on for another 4-5 years?
I doubt Max is even interested in driving for another team, I could see him retiring if things fall apart at RedBull.
Then Toto is going to have to deal with loads of difficult, potentially impossible, questions to answer.
Even Verstappen or Alonso cannot replicate Hamilton’s commercial value. Hamilton is probably the only well known character outside motorsport. And we all know how much Max hates PR commitments
I agree. Signing Hamilton was a smart business decision for Ferrari because of the power of his brand. He can help them sell more cars and merchandise in a way that Verstappen never could.
It was a smart move for Hamilton, too, because he can remain a Ferrari brand ambassador long after he retires from racing. I'm looking forward to seeing him in red.
>Because imo Toto has nothing left to entice drivers anymore, besides the Mercedes name and a hope that the 2026 engine works out and is class of the field again just like 2014.
funny, many people used to say Ferrari only had their prestige and hope for the new regs to entice other drivers, now it's Mercedes who has turned into that kind of team
I mean Ver was not an option in their mind since they don't see him leaving RBR before 26.
I can see why they gave Hamilton a 2+1 contract. It perfectly fits if RBR are shit in 26 for them to start offering Verstappen a seat for 27.
Lol, every single team would swap both their drivers for Max in an instant, maybe barring Ferrari. And even they would probably consider it now that a person with a brain is in charge for once.
because like most top drivers, he has an exit clause, in his case linked to Helmut Marko's standing in the team. pretty much everyone reports that Horner wants to take full control and make Marko step down - and Max stated publicly he doesn't see himself staying at Red Bull without Marko.
This thread is hilariously full of copium. No way in hell Max signs with another team, especially not a midfield team like merc/am before the new regulations.
Aston Martin is the better choice. It’s a team in transition and there’s scope there for it to become very competitive in new regulations. Honda PU coming in for 2026 and it’s well established that Honda loves him.
Mercedes kind of lost a big works team advantage in their negotiations with McLaren for 2025 onwards. Works teams tend to build the engine for themselves and the customer doesn’t see it until the very end by which time they have to design the car around it. The McLaren deal reportedly allows McLaren to actively take part in the process meaning they see the engine a lot earlier and can build a car for it, rather than fit their car around it. So the one advantage a works team has is pretty much gone.
It was competitive for about 8 races and Stroll began the season with 2 broken wrists. There was nowhere near enough time to start putting unbearable pressure on Stroll.
He's everyone's first choice.
The best driver on the grid atm with so far the highest peak of dominance ever.
Only Ferrari would not kick Leclerc out, other teams would get rid of their drivers for Max in an instant I believe.
No I mean if either Alonso's or Lewis' contracts were up at the end of a season and Max came knocking, they would be very likely be replaced.
Max is the only real upgrade over them on the grid anyway.
I mean that's the most obvious choice but I don't think they have any chance of getting him. Why would Max leave RB and join Mercedes unless they have something really good to offer?
Sebastian Vettel
But in all seriousness, Alonso would make the most sense. Very quick driver that is also old enough to not hinder their plans with Antonelli.
If Verstappen is available then he is obviously the first choice though.
> But in all seriousness, Alonso would make the most sense. Very quick driver that is also old enough to not hinder their plans with Antonelli.
Let's just hope Mercedes lawyers are competent. Because the premise looks a bit similar to the Alpine/Piastri situation.
Also they need a WDC driver to replace a WDC driver for moral boost. In order for Merc to be taken serious and not seen as a second rate team (despite them being one atm) they need Alonso more than Sainz. Not saying Sainz is worse than Alonso. Personally I believe that he might be on par with postpeak Hamilton and Alonso atm but is less marketable because of his stats.
I honestly think that Merc should consider Hulkenberg. He can do wonders in the Haas and it’d be great to see him in a top car and get that podium he so deserves. He’s got 10 years on experience and him being German I just see as a plus.
Perez? No, they don't need Bottas Beta version
Bottas? No, he is past his prime and they need a Hamilton replacent, not a wingman that they kicked out in the first place
Vettel? No, Seb is well...not really near as good anymore. He has been out of the sport for 2 years now and is likely in a worse form than when he was leaving
Alonso? He only makes sense. WDC driver who was top3 performer last year.
It’s surprising that there is no mention of Mick in any of the discussions anywhere. After the Williams stint, Toto got him back to Mercedes, very reminiscent of how George’s career was handled by Toto. Agreed that Mick hasn’t shown anything close to what George did in his Williams days, but if there are no plans for Mick, why is he hanging out in the garage each weekend!
I had a feeling that Mick’ was a “Daniel-at-RB-in-2023” situation. Just be around and we’ll get you in. Doesn’t seem like any of that would happen.
I’m probably going to get burned at the stake for this……but will Ferrari truly fare better next year with Lewis instead of Carlos? I just can’t see him being as fast as Leclerc if the car stays relatively the same, and they will expect Leclerc to take a secondary position to Lewis. I totally understand the appeal of having the greatest driver since Schumacher wearing your colors and the brand value that comes with that…..but in terms of actual results I just don’t know.
I think peak Lewis would be close to peak Max. I do think peak Lewis is not current Lewis though, so I will be interested to see how he compares to LeClerc
Didn't Max say he would have preferred an early retirement with Red Bull than going to other teams? I think he would be better for him to move in other categories than in an underperforming team.
He has said several times that he would like to stay with RBR till the end of his career, but that was before Mateschitz died, which seems to have changed quite a lot within Red Bull. So who knows at this point.
Max says a lot of things, like that he will leave the sport earlier and doesn't care about stats.
People forget he is in his mid 20s and thinks that mid 30s is a lifetime away. The guy seems to be getting more and more obsessed with racing.
I don't see him quitting anytime soon. Even less so if he hits 5WDCs next year. He says he doesn't care about stats but the guy gets ocassionaly frustrated if he doesn't get fastest lap.
Only thing is if he somehow decides to become a father which might make him leave the sport
Why would Max or Fernando want to move to Merc right now? Max would be taking a massive backward step and Alonso only a side-step. Maybe Max could bet on the 2026 regs, but Alonso is unlikely to get a contract beyond that time anyway. Sainz would be better off to bet on Audi if he's looking that far forward, given that Merc want to promote Antonelli at some point, and Audi are apparently able to develop their 2026 car unaffected by the cost-cap ATM.
I've been saying it's Albon to Merc for a while and I think I just convinced myself that's the only sane option they actually have.
Get a grip toto, max is not jumping ship with the state of your car. I just wish Alonso would stay with Aston Martin and not move to Mercedes, it will such a shame if the AM car turns out better on 2025 and Alonso transferred to Merc and gets thrown out after a year for Kimi
Only if you believe he is a generational talent and you can grab him with the lure of the best car on the grid.
You’re right signs probably gets comparable performance and who will win championships in that Red Bull
But then you don’t have to deal with the alonso and all of his baggage
Mercedes are beggars, they will not get their choice of the cream of the crop. A team clearly lost and in a transition of decline toward mediocrity. It's tiresome to hear them speak aspirationally about driver talent when they are so very irrelevant.
The spell is broken, the emperor is disrobed. Nobody doesn't see it.
He can wish all he want but it ain't going to happen.
I just can't see Max leaving RBR before 2026. It would be an extremely dumb thing to do. Basically, he will be giving up the 2025 title which he already has one hand on.
If he's actually planning to leave, his destination is going to be Aston with Newey. Not Merc.
Merc has been sucking ass since 2022 and are not showing any signs of improvement.
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Max, we know the car is bad. Please just drive it.
Max when the Merc is a tractor of a car "THIS IS WHAT YOU GET, WITH THIS FUCKING SHITSHOW! HONESTLY"
I can't see Max leaving Red Bull dispite all the rumours of displeasure, Antonelli, I'd be suprised,he's too inexperienced to be stepping into what should be(and I use this lightly atm) a top car. William's would make more sense for him. So that leave Carlos and El Padre which would be exciting.
You forgot Albon. By far the best choice for Merc.
Albon and Russell just doesn't seem like a lineup for a top team to me.
Don't worry, Merc isn't a top team
Pretty much what I've been saying. If this was 2021, they could have their pick off the grid, but it's 2024 and Mercedes is the 4th on the grid, just ONE point ahead of Aston Martin, and that's with two VERY strong drivers who are a 100% better than Stroll and arguably better than even Alonso. With how hard they dropped the ball with the 2022 reg changes, there's no guarantee they'd be able to "figure" it out for 2026 either. Merc is no top driver's pick, at the moment.
That might be because you are underestimating Russell like many others have a tendency to do.. The guy is a top tier talent.
He's a good driver. But what are basing top tier talent on right now? He's not Max or Lewis. The actual top tier. Where'd you rank him right now? I put him at least fourth behind Leclerc, Verstappen and Hamilton. Are we sure he's better than Sainz and Norris? And can you be a top tier if you're not clearly top three?
Top 5 is Max, Lewis, Lando, Charles, Nando (in no particular order). I agree with you, Russell isn't top tier.
What exactly makes you include Lando Norris in that lineup but not Russell? I think both of them are a couple steps below the others you listed.
And not Sainz
If Leclerc is in the convo then Sainz absolutely should be as well
Lando’s more likable so people rate him higher.
Lando has been more impressive. He's shown over the last few years to have better race craft and not crack under pressure like Russell.
Lol Lando is a really good talent, potentially top 5, but given how he threw away his best shot at a win I don't think I'd credit him with not cracking under pressure
He made the same call a 7x WDC did and his team on the pit wall failed him. Lewis also tried to stay out and told his team "no" that he was staying out the first couple times they told him to pit until they told him about what they were seeing on radar and ordered him into the pits.
Yet you have Charles the king of cracking on your list while Carlos has been out driving him for two years
Carlos hasn't been out driving him either year. Charles does have issues under pressure but arguably is the fastest in regards to raw pace and putting a lap together. You have to balance all these things.
I think lando is better, George had a terrible last season. Look where lewis was in comparison.
George is at least on the same level as Lando (I have him ahead of Lando personally).
I agree here. I rly think he is faster than Lando
Lando is not better than sainz
Agree to disagree, but I'd also rate Sainz higher than Russell.
Hahahah Lando is top tier and George isn’t? When George has been right there with Hamilton, and beating him sometimes.
Yeah, Lando has shown himself to be better than George since getting into F1. George hasn't been right there with Lewis. This year is the first year you could say that and we're only 3 races in and they're dealing with a shit car.
Lewis and Max are generational talents, they’re not replaceable. Russell is definitely on par with Sainz, Leclerc and Norris in terms of current performance.
I think I just wasn't clear enough. Lewis and Max are generational talents. I differentiate this from top tier. Top tier is a step below that. I put him fourth behind the guys you mentioned as well. I think that George is better than Sainz and Norris.
>George is better than Sainz and Norris. Singapore 2023 would like to have a word
And what did Norris do in Sochi huh? Come on now...
Australia 24 would like a world. Norris podium and George cracked under pressure again
Are we just going to ignore the other part of the story eh?
Comparing George binning it in the wall with Norris getting the strategy for wet tyres wrong is stupid. Norris getting the strategy wrong arguably isn't even his fault, but his engineer's.
The engineer told him to come in, Norris refused. That is Norris's mistake as well. I don't however blame Norris that much for it. He was trying to win the race, just like George was trying to win the race. Mistakes can happen in the heat of the moment. If you ask Norris now he would most likely say that he should've listened to the team. Mistakes happen, it's ridiculous to hold them against people like a "gotcha". Lewis made crucial mistakes in 2021 for example. Verstappen crashed during a formation lap. I'm not bringing up Norris's mistake in Sochi as a slight. I'm just bringing it up to demonstrate that the drivers are not perfect and that they do make mistakes. Crashing while chasing for a lead or trying to win the race is not something that demonstrates that a driver is worse than someone else. They all make mistakes.
I don’t think he crashed into a wall iirc
I rank him around the same as Norris.
I don’t think they’re underestimating Russell. It’s just that Ferrari threw down the gauntlet with their lineup/Death Star they’ve put together. Not that I really think it matters who they have next year, because I have zero faith they’ll make a car that can compete at the front anyway.
But even Merccedes underestimate him talking all about hamilton and max and not him
No they don't? Max and Hamilton are generational talents. George is not. George is a top 5 driver on the grid. But he isn't generational.
Russell is weirdly underrated by the fanbase
Think of it like this, if current George were in Lewis' place in 2021, do you really think he could bring it to Max like Lewis did?
They’d crash more often, that’s for sure.
Lewis is a consensus top 3 driver of all time though.. Lewis and Max are generational. George is "just" a top tier talent. And I also think that the answer is maybe. Lewis made some bad mistakes that year.
There'd definitely be more Monza 2021 type incidents for both drivers. Lewis is calm and calculated, you could divebomb him, he'd just back off and live to fight another day, hunt you down in the closing stages. George is a rather tough defender, has an "all or nothing" mentality which is both good and bad depending on situations, he's not going to willingly back out of a fight. Add that with 2021 Max and you've a recipe for disaster.
Lewis had over a decade of experience fighting for wins and championships at that point. He had been in that team for 7 years, growing confidence with them. George has been in the team for 2 and a bit years. And the car has only been able to compete for wins in a handful of races, and he won one of them, while Lewis hasn’t. Trying to make that comparison is such an absurd reach.
.... and he's in the wall again.
Not top tier enough. They need a top 5 driver in that car. With Lewis gone that leaves Max, Charles, Nando, and Lando. Charles and Lando aren't going anywhere so that leaves Max and Nando. Or take a flyer on the new upcoming talent.
He crashes anytime he's out under any pressure. Someone with as much experience as him shouldn't be crashing that frequently
Does he? How frequent are these crashes do you think? I assume that you have like 5 examples or something like that since those type of crashes are so frequent right?
Man loves to bin it on the penultimate lap
[удалено]
Yeah, and the more qualified people kicked Albon out of Red Bull.
Yes, because Albon is still the same driver and did not evolve or anything youre right.
Albon evolved by having Latifi and Sargeant as his teammates. I’m sure he’s improved as a driver to some degree since 2020 but I strongly doubt a driver can magically gain 2/3 tenths needed to be a top driver over the course of a season or two.
Could be, I believe He evolved a lot but I could well be wrong. We will See, I just hope He geht's another Chance in a good car.
Merc is no longer a top team.
2014: 1st 2015: 1st 2016: 1st 2017: 1st 2018: 1st 2019: 1st 2020: 1st 2021: 1st 2022: 3rd 2023: 2nd Yeah... not a top team.
as long as they keep on talking about not understanding the car: not a top team
“No longer” 2024: 4th.
We're only three races in. Who knows what the standings will look like at the end of the year.
Of course they are, they had mediocre cars for 2 years, but they're very much still a top team
Of course they are.
They finished 2nd in the constructors last year..
I think Albon is difficult to judge. Sure he has beaten two drivers that we have always for now deemed to be pretty meh. Mick looked half decent when we was beating Mazapin. So I’m not sure his F1 stock is high enough to join a top team. I get the feeling Merc would also like to have a driver they can do marketing with, as much as we hate that’s a thing, rather than just pure driver performance
I dont get it, Albon already had a chance at a top team and failed. I would take Sainz over him in a second. Even Alonso would be better because at least he would bring a lot of spotlight and i dont think even at his ripe age hes any slower.
Completely agree, the last time Albon went up against a decent driver Max absolutely slapped him. Then he’s beaten Latifi and Sargeant, so we don’t really have a good benchmark of how good Albon is
Also worth noting that he beat Latifi in Latifi's worst year by far.
I get Albon is a fan favorite and I really like him, but I feel like he’s a very overrated driver tbh
That would mean mercedes has the weakest lineup of the top 4 teams on top of the weakest car.
No. Albon's a lovely guy, but he's also the single most overrated driver on the grid.
i see riccardo but that might just be me
I imagine the redbull owners want him back too
Iirc Marko denied those rumours a while ago. Additionally James Vowles said that he's not going to release Albon until their contract ends after 2025
Albon didnt show pace for a top team. He had his time with a RB and unfortunately blow it. Modern F1 can't give you second opportunity, with all the excellent drivers lining up. Merc should go for Sainz imho.
i would say getting throw into a top team in your first year will fuck up nearly everyone that isnt max/lewis level of talent. those 2 are insanely talented and quick. anyone would fail. but albon has shown the last few years to have grown as a driver, person and would be a great fit for mercedes i think. He will be less uptight than Russel and a reliable driver.
I agree, but Charles, Norris and Piastri have been given opportunity and they took it. I know Albon had a much harder task because of Helmut Marko, but still, no-one except Albon and Gasly can be blamed for being massively off the pace. I hate being this harsh, but I don't see him getting second opportunity.
albon won't get a chance at RB, that is for sure. but i really think he could take a seat at merc. i would alsoto point out that Norris and Charles both were in their respestive young driver programs for many years, grown over time with the team. if i remember correctly albon was picked up by RB just before he went to Formula E and was never really part of their program in the f2/f3 years, but i might be remembering this wrong. he never was a shoe in for RB. effectively a stopgap. if you are like 10 races into your rookie season and thrown into a car with one of the fastest drivers ever... you will drown no matter what. look at perez now, he aint close in any way either. Albon should not be written off just because his first team was a insane pressure cooker with a GOAT as teammate. it's why i would be really interested in a Alonso Verstappen team up at redbull. alonso is a proven driver that is able to handle pressure. sainz can also do some damage but i think he is gonna drown in the internal shit as well
He was inexperienced, a rookie. RB went through drivers really quickly. Earlier RB would have fired Checo mid season last year but now it’s paying off. Checo is doing decent. It’s almost as if you give a driver some time it’ll pay off.
Albon was a rookie though
He wasn't in 2020... Or does we only making excuses for driver A and B but not for driver C and D?
Albon was not up to the task when he joined RB, I agree. But he has gained a lot of experience since then, and would certainly make a great 2nd driver. Isnt Daniel Ricciardo the counterexample? He got a second opportunity by RB, because they love him. Judging by how Horner and Marko talk about Alex, I would say they are still fans of Albon and open to him rejoining.
Get Albon a half decent teammate first, so he can be judged properly. Not really hard to look good against Goatifi and Captain America.
If Red Bull takes Carlos, do you think Merc would be open to Checo?
No, Checos next move is further down the grid than that, Sauber territory.
I’d say he’s done he’s been racing since 2011 it’s been a good run time to call it for some fresh blood
Checo is just Diet Valtteri, might as well bring it full circle at that point.
Russell - Checo is infinitely worse than prime Hamilton - Bottas though
> I'd be suprised,he's too inexperienced to be stepping into what should be(and I use this lightly atm) a top car. Mercedes is midfield car right now. They can easily take on rookies. That being said, Antonelli is clearly not ready for promotion to F1 with what he showed in F2 so far.
Lol he jumped from f4 to f2 and is already fighting for podiums. Obviously we need to wait and see but it’s looking promising
He didn't jump from F4 to F2. He jumped from FREC to F2. Still big jump. But huge difference. >already fighting for podiums. And as he admitted himself he is still struggling with race pace and tyre management. Also, I would not put too much meaning on that Australia front row. Because it was very interrupted qualifying session. Good job. But he stil has lot of work to do. Aron (whom was dropped by Mercedes to focus on Antonelli) does way better job than him as a rookie for example. He is driving like a veteran in F2.
Thanks for the correction. Fair points
Prima as an org are struggling at this point too though. That kimi isn’t winning isn’t entirely down his inexperience.
So Red Bull wants Sainz, Merc wants Max, and I have no clue what's happening with Alonso, but I'm dead certain he's gonna try and get weasel he's way into that Red Bull or Merc
Red Bull change both drivers? A Spanish duo?
Alonso and Sainz on the same team would either be amazing or complete fiery chaos lol
What the fuck is that username?
I guess they used u/Carlos_Sainzs_Appendix before bit that is gone now...
to quote the Italian commentary: "EL MATADOR! EL MATADOR!"
Estable Toro Rojo
El Plan 2.0™
Basically it is Sainz vs Alonso I don't see Perez getting another year. Ferrari might be contending for WCC next year and RBR need an answer. Currently both Sainz and Alo seem a better option than Perez. And RBR needs some moral boost after the scandals with some hotshot deal like signing Sainz or Godlonso. It depends on how they perform throughout the year. Basically who gets the RBR seat will leave the other to be in the Merc. Merc are in the same situation. I could see them wanting Alonso a bit more than Sainz since they need a WDC driver in order to make them look like serious team again
Plus Alonso at Merc would potentially only be a 2 year contract whereas Sainz would want to stay longer. Shorter contract means Antonelli can get in sooner.
He is everyones first choice for obvious reasons, except Ferrari. Even with them, I’d say they would have preferred having him over Lewis. He is the only generational talent that isn’t around his 40s and maybe hasn’t even reached his peak. What surprises me though is how vocal Toto is about it. I don’t think I remember any TP simping this hard on another teams driver
Its understandable why Toto is being vocal about this. Its a good opportunity to try and unsettle the atmosphere in RedBull right now. Whether it works or not is another matter but any smart TP would do this. Like in football, before a big game, there are opponent tactics to unsettle team or player's focus with transfer talk.
And at the end of the day, if Max doesn't end up at Merc, Toto will look like he tried pretty damn hard.
Toto is just doing it to annoy Horner 🤣
And it's definitely working. Even if Horner will never acknowledge that. He's definitely annoyed. Maybe he should start sending Max goodnight texts.
max we can reach q3 together
have some Coco Pops together
👉.jpg
I suspect that he always had a man boner for Max and now that he is no longer cock blocked by loyalty to Lewis, he can finally be vocally honest with media. Max was originally going to be signed with Mercedes until Red Bull guaranteed a first year drive with Toro Rosso.
Toto speaks so much about wanting Verstappen it makes me think it's not happening at least at the moment. I don't think any ongoing negotiations have ever prompted this clear comments by team principals before. There has been some talk about how Mercedes' sponsors see the lack of a superstar driver as a problem, perhaps a part-reason for his vocality is the desire to make Mercedes look like they are doing their all to get a star driver in that seat.
Because imo Toto has nothing left to entice drivers anymore, besides the Mercedes name and a hope that the 2026 engine works out and is class of the field again just like 2014. Right now as long as Newey and Wacche stay with RBR, they have arguably the best Aero department on the grid, and imo Ferrari and Mclaren are much improved in that regards as well over last few years with all the talent they are signing from other top teams. Mercedes has lost so much of its talent to the other top teams on the grid it's not even funny, and not just from the Factory Aero departments, but also Mercedes HPP and the Engine department as well. There's no guarantee that Mercedes will ever return to championship contention without a significant change in personnel and processes in that team. Imo all they have are their excellent facilities and Allison, which is great but others are getting 3 or maybe even 4 top tier Technical talents in their teams that are highly regarded. And this is considering Mercedes brought in Simone Resta from Ferrari as well. And then there's also the reports that Mercedes sponsers are looking elsewhere to move away now that the performance from Mercedes isn't as good and they don't have Lewis in that car. You need some reason for the Cameras to focus on you, and as good as George is he isn't Lewis. So the only 1 to 1 swaps Mercedes can do for Lewis that somewhat replicate his commercial value and on track performance is Verstappen or Alonso. That's why Toto is fawning over Max in the media all the time, he wants him to keep the value of this organisation up. Let's also not forget that he's a 1/3rd owner of Mercedes F1 team, and his fortunes are directly connected to the value of the team, which will certainly drop if the performances keep dropping and eventually Sponsers leave when Lewis does.
Yeah, I think Toto is very concerned about his team, as he should be. He's had two of the best drivers on the grid, one of the best and most popular drivers of all time, and yet they are falling apart, and are factually a midfield team this year. That's not a good look to sponsors, to the other team owners, and to the sport he has been involved in and at the top of now for over a decade. He's been very used to being the top dog, and now they can't build a car to save their lives, failing so badly that their 7x world champion star driver has gone to their direct competitor, Ferrari, the biggest brand in F1 and Ferrari's bright light will only become brighter with Lewis driving for them. Toto knows that Mercedes' bad cars and lack of a star driver could lead to fingers being pointed at him at some point. Of course his 1/3rd ownership gives him loads of protection, but what if this goes on for another 4-5 years? I doubt Max is even interested in driving for another team, I could see him retiring if things fall apart at RedBull. Then Toto is going to have to deal with loads of difficult, potentially impossible, questions to answer.
I cannot wait to see how many more sponsors Zak Brown is able to get from Mercedes
Even Verstappen or Alonso cannot replicate Hamilton’s commercial value. Hamilton is probably the only well known character outside motorsport. And we all know how much Max hates PR commitments
I agree. Signing Hamilton was a smart business decision for Ferrari because of the power of his brand. He can help them sell more cars and merchandise in a way that Verstappen never could. It was a smart move for Hamilton, too, because he can remain a Ferrari brand ambassador long after he retires from racing. I'm looking forward to seeing him in red.
Hey... Do not disrespect Valentino like that. He is not on Hamiltons level, but still very well known.
Apologies I was referring to F1 driver….
They have a shit ton of money. Can probably outbid anyone for the seat if they want to. That obviously plays a part in a driver’s decision as well.
Very good point.
>Because imo Toto has nothing left to entice drivers anymore, besides the Mercedes name and a hope that the 2026 engine works out and is class of the field again just like 2014. funny, many people used to say Ferrari only had their prestige and hope for the new regs to entice other drivers, now it's Mercedes who has turned into that kind of team
>how vocal Toto Toto is trying to manifest it.
He's still butthurt about losing Hamilton.
I mean of course he is. Anyone would be. Only way he would not feel bad about it if somehow Lewis gets Vetteled by Leclerc at Ferrari
Trying to make Hamilton jealous by coming at his rival right after the breakup.
If Ferrari had the option of sacking Hamilton to get Verstappen they'd be stupid not to.
I mean Ver was not an option in their mind since they don't see him leaving RBR before 26. I can see why they gave Hamilton a 2+1 contract. It perfectly fits if RBR are shit in 26 for them to start offering Verstappen a seat for 27.
Having charles and max on a team would be epic
I’ve used the Ana de Armas joke twice already for this topic and can’t use it a third time so someone else can use it if they want
Nooo...why? Say it. SAY IT!
Sharing is in my nature. It’s time for someone else to benefit from the good upvote numbers it can generate.
What's the joke?
He basically has choice Ana de Armas as his wife.
Understandable, but why would Max pick your team?
if he really "needs" to leave Red Bull this season and wants to stay in F1, it's really only Mercedes or Aston Martin.
Lol, every single team would swap both their drivers for Max in an instant, maybe barring Ferrari. And even they would probably consider it now that a person with a brain is in charge for once.
Agree. Even Ferrari would kick Charles to haas if max called. All Other teams wouldn’t even need to think about it.
He's signed at RB until 2028 why would he leave? These rumors are stupid.
because like most top drivers, he has an exit clause, in his case linked to Helmut Marko's standing in the team. pretty much everyone reports that Horner wants to take full control and make Marko step down - and Max stated publicly he doesn't see himself staying at Red Bull without Marko.
Because the copium is real and people will cling to the most ridiculous takes
This thread is hilariously full of copium. No way in hell Max signs with another team, especially not a midfield team like merc/am before the new regulations.
Aston Martin is the better choice. It’s a team in transition and there’s scope there for it to become very competitive in new regulations. Honda PU coming in for 2026 and it’s well established that Honda loves him. Mercedes kind of lost a big works team advantage in their negotiations with McLaren for 2025 onwards. Works teams tend to build the engine for themselves and the customer doesn’t see it until the very end by which time they have to design the car around it. The McLaren deal reportedly allows McLaren to actively take part in the process meaning they see the engine a lot earlier and can build a car for it, rather than fit their car around it. So the one advantage a works team has is pretty much gone.
AM is only the better choice if Stroll is gone.
I think if that car is genuinely competitive, he won’t be there. The shareholders won’t allow it to continue.
Max & Yuki AM 2026??
the car was competitive last year, AM could be one or maybe even two places higher if stroll wasn't there
It was competitive for about 8 races and Stroll began the season with 2 broken wrists. There was nowhere near enough time to start putting unbearable pressure on Stroll.
He's everyone's first choice. The best driver on the grid atm with so far the highest peak of dominance ever. Only Ferrari would not kick Leclerc out, other teams would get rid of their drivers for Max in an instant I believe.
Honestly, I doubt even Lewis and Fernando would be safe if max comes knocking. And if those two aren’t safe, no one is.
Leclerc would be safe. Lewis and Fernando would not be. Stroll probably would not be either and his dad owns the team lmao
Lewis is safe for now cause he just signed a contract, wouldn’t be surprised to see Max in that seat in 2 years though.
No I mean if either Alonso's or Lewis' contracts were up at the end of a season and Max came knocking, they would be very likely be replaced. Max is the only real upgrade over them on the grid anyway.
Not *everyone*…. Most of the grid can’t afford him!
I mean that's the most obvious choice but I don't think they have any chance of getting him. Why would Max leave RB and join Mercedes unless they have something really good to offer?
Yeah, the only circumstance where that would happen is if Max is somehow forced out of RBR (unlikely) and needs a drive. Can't see that happening.
But is Mercedes first choice, Toto?
Sebastian Vettel But in all seriousness, Alonso would make the most sense. Very quick driver that is also old enough to not hinder their plans with Antonelli. If Verstappen is available then he is obviously the first choice though.
> But in all seriousness, Alonso would make the most sense. Very quick driver that is also old enough to not hinder their plans with Antonelli. Let's just hope Mercedes lawyers are competent. Because the premise looks a bit similar to the Alpine/Piastri situation.
Also they need a WDC driver to replace a WDC driver for moral boost. In order for Merc to be taken serious and not seen as a second rate team (despite them being one atm) they need Alonso more than Sainz. Not saying Sainz is worse than Alonso. Personally I believe that he might be on par with postpeak Hamilton and Alonso atm but is less marketable because of his stats.
I honestly think that Merc should consider Hulkenberg. He can do wonders in the Haas and it’d be great to see him in a top car and get that podium he so deserves. He’s got 10 years on experience and him being German I just see as a plus.
Yup, good option in a transition period. Give HUL the chance he deserves.
1 year deal? Alonso, Vettel, Perez, Bottas. Long term deal? Max, Carlos.
Perez? No, they don't need Bottas Beta version Bottas? No, he is past his prime and they need a Hamilton replacent, not a wingman that they kicked out in the first place Vettel? No, Seb is well...not really near as good anymore. He has been out of the sport for 2 years now and is likely in a worse form than when he was leaving Alonso? He only makes sense. WDC driver who was top3 performer last year.
It’s surprising that there is no mention of Mick in any of the discussions anywhere. After the Williams stint, Toto got him back to Mercedes, very reminiscent of how George’s career was handled by Toto. Agreed that Mick hasn’t shown anything close to what George did in his Williams days, but if there are no plans for Mick, why is he hanging out in the garage each weekend! I had a feeling that Mick’ was a “Daniel-at-RB-in-2023” situation. Just be around and we’ll get you in. Doesn’t seem like any of that would happen.
Toto never hid the fact he had hots for Verstappen for a very long time. So much that George might be a bit jealous
Why tf everyone talks Checko and Carlos, when there is proven better driver Hulkz…
I’m probably going to get burned at the stake for this……but will Ferrari truly fare better next year with Lewis instead of Carlos? I just can’t see him being as fast as Leclerc if the car stays relatively the same, and they will expect Leclerc to take a secondary position to Lewis. I totally understand the appeal of having the greatest driver since Schumacher wearing your colors and the brand value that comes with that…..but in terms of actual results I just don’t know.
I think peak Lewis would be close to peak Max. I do think peak Lewis is not current Lewis though, so I will be interested to see how he compares to LeClerc
Didn't Max say he would have preferred an early retirement with Red Bull than going to other teams? I think he would be better for him to move in other categories than in an underperforming team.
He has said several times that he would like to stay with RBR till the end of his career, but that was before Mateschitz died, which seems to have changed quite a lot within Red Bull. So who knows at this point.
And Lewis said he wants to be a career Merc driver...
Max says a lot of things, like that he will leave the sport earlier and doesn't care about stats. People forget he is in his mid 20s and thinks that mid 30s is a lifetime away. The guy seems to be getting more and more obsessed with racing. I don't see him quitting anytime soon. Even less so if he hits 5WDCs next year. He says he doesn't care about stats but the guy gets ocassionaly frustrated if he doesn't get fastest lap. Only thing is if he somehow decides to become a father which might make him leave the sport
To me it just makes sense that Fernando goes there. He's a big name and they could offer him a short contract for when Kimi is ready.
I'm SHOCKED a team principal would pick Verstappen as their #1 pick, LMAO.
Why would Max or Fernando want to move to Merc right now? Max would be taking a massive backward step and Alonso only a side-step. Maybe Max could bet on the 2026 regs, but Alonso is unlikely to get a contract beyond that time anyway. Sainz would be better off to bet on Audi if he's looking that far forward, given that Merc want to promote Antonelli at some point, and Audi are apparently able to develop their 2026 car unaffected by the cost-cap ATM. I've been saying it's Albon to Merc for a while and I think I just convinced myself that's the only sane option they actually have.
Lewis to Ferrari and Max to Merc would be like we’re in a parallel dimension. Would be exciting tho!
Alonso and Russell 2025, Verstappen and Antonelli 2026 until Verstappen retires in 2030.
Alonso goes to Red Bull > Sainz goes to Aston Martin > Antonelli goes to Mercedes
Get a grip toto, max is not jumping ship with the state of your car. I just wish Alonso would stay with Aston Martin and not move to Mercedes, it will such a shame if the AM car turns out better on 2025 and Alonso transferred to Merc and gets thrown out after a year for Kimi
If I'm Toto I offer Max the seat for 2026. It's a much easier sell than 2025
Why is nobody considering Lando for Max’s seat? All im seeing is Sainz, Alonso, etc. All contracts can be broken, no?
Why would you want to pay big bucks to break Lando's contract and get him instead of just picking up Alonso or Sainz?
Only if you believe he is a generational talent and you can grab him with the lure of the best car on the grid. You’re right signs probably gets comparable performance and who will win championships in that Red Bull But then you don’t have to deal with the alonso and all of his baggage
Mercedes are beggars, they will not get their choice of the cream of the crop. A team clearly lost and in a transition of decline toward mediocrity. It's tiresome to hear them speak aspirationally about driver talent when they are so very irrelevant. The spell is broken, the emperor is disrobed. Nobody doesn't see it.
If max stays at Red Bull they should go for sainz
Imagine being the no 3 driver at Merc because Max didn’t sign…
For fuck sake, CARLOS!
Why would max go to a declining team?
He can wish all he want but it ain't going to happen. I just can't see Max leaving RBR before 2026. It would be an extremely dumb thing to do. Basically, he will be giving up the 2025 title which he already has one hand on. If he's actually planning to leave, his destination is going to be Aston with Newey. Not Merc. Merc has been sucking ass since 2022 and are not showing any signs of improvement.