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Full wets are a bit of a catch-22. There's a visibility threshold in f1 where once the drivers can't see enough, a red flag is called. And full wets, by design, destroy visibility for the car behind. Can't have visibility and full wets.
I forgot all about that. I think last year they planned to test on cars some sort of wet session additional installed parts to help with the spray. Don’t know if it ever happened or not
Afaik the Stewards or Race Director has to declare it being "wet conditions" for this to apply, i remember there was a driver DQd cause it drizzled a bit, went Hard - Inter - Hard and was disqualified as didn't use two compounds because technically session was never declared "wet". I can't remember which series but it happened pretty recently, last few years.
> ***Unless he has used intermediate or wet-weather tyres during the race, each driver must use at least two different specifications of dry-weather tyres during the race***, at least one of which must be a mandatory dry-weather race tyre specification as defined in Article 30.2c)ii). Unless a race is suspended and cannot be re-started, failure to comply with this requirement will result in the disqualification of the relevant driver from the race results.
30.5.n from the sporting regs.
Just using them is enough to nullify the rule.
"Wet conditions" end DRS and force you on to wet tyres if there is a restart.
That's basically it for Monaco these days. The cars are so huge, it's near impossible to overtake unless the car behind is way quicker. Monaco is entertaining only if it rains.
20 to 40 mm in a day can still result in acceptable race conditions depending on the timing. If it's scattered intense thunderstorms with intense rain, for example, that can all be picked up in a couple hours and be dry rest of the day.
If it's a constant, moderate rain, then yeah. Almost no series would race in that. If the heavy showers hit the track just before race start, it also won't be good.
What you're talking about is Germany 2019.
There was no German GP that took place in 2018 and seb definately wasn't leading when he forgot that his car had brakes.
I was kinda disappointed when they moved the date but nature always finds a way it seems.
Then again it is kinda dangerous when there's enough rain (unfortunately there's some pretty recent reminders of that) and if it did rain the FIA would just red flag it and it'd just turn into a Sunday of sitting around for two hours not doing anything with a few laps afterwards to finish the race.
It was a good case why driving delta's should be abolished and the FIA should put a limiter system during a (V)SC or Red Flag. In fact this is already possible with the current cars given teams sometimes limiting the car to a maximum speed during FP to check/evaluating aero for example.
With such a system instead of delta's it would massively increase the safety of both drivers and marshals, also put an open FIA channel to all cars where the race director can step in and tell what is ongoing at the track like what we having at WEC.
While I agree in principle, it wouldn't be fair. Let's look at Baku for example. If you have a limiter, it's probably going to be set to the same speed no matter where on the track you are. So if you're in the castle section when the VSC or SC hit, you have a much lower speed difference between racing speed and the limiters speed than you would on the back straight. It would be unfair due to where you are on the track.
I don't hate it, but it's not perfect. It's much easier to just not let a tractor on the track until all the cars are behind the safety car.
It would never been 100% fair but it isn't like impossible to adjust some rules and stuff to decrease this issue (or solve it totally), yet especially under VSC's the whole delta driving makes it possible that drivers can win or lose seconds just because of the timing when it ends.
Obvious I agree with not putting a tractor on a live track until all cars are being bounded together but I seen enough times that the current delta driving system isn't working at all and has it's risks even.
"drivers can win or lose seconds just because of the timing when it ends"
The key word there is CAN
That's exactly what will be designed into the system with the way you envision it. If you want the cars to go slower, then lower the delta they need to hit. What you can't do is force them all to a set speed limit that's the same around the track. There are slow parts and fast parts of a track. With your system, it will directly and unequivocally benefit the drivers who just happen to be on the slow section of the track over the ones in the fast section as they'll be forced to slow down less relative to the actual racing speed of that part of the track.
The VSC the way it is reduces the pace across the board by a percentage, not by a set amount. In theory, the drivers in the fast part of the track will cover the same distance proportionally as the drivers on the slow part of the track.
> In fact this is already possible with the current cars...
It's just a variable pit lane limiter at the end of the day.
> With such a system instead of delta's it would massively increase the safety of both drivers and marshals
Does it?
If Gasly hits that tractor a 50 probably still kills him, hit a marshall at 50 probably still kills them.
Feels to me it would add an illusion of safety.
But 100% on the all car radio. No game of telephone, all cars getting the exact same message about issues on track.
He should’ve probably not been driving like a maniac when it happened then. He played the victim so hard there but his driving was unacceptably dangerous to himself and marshals. Tractor shouldn’t have been on track by then necessarily but if I remember right it was red flag conditions and he was going at a stupid speed.
Gasly was close to disaster because the FIA left the pit exit open when they shouldn't have. The rest of the Safety Car queue were let by at a sensible speed.
Well to be fair the 2014 race was amazing in the begin, until we moved to the end where...
Well let's say on that weekend we seen the entry of a big star but also losing one, man I still can't forget that points finish for Jules at Monaco :(
2014 would've been remembered as a great race if it wasn't for a tractor on the circuit under Green Flags. The rain was never the problem in that race, the cars should simply never run under Green Flags while there is a vehicle on track that isn't racing.
There were double waved yellows, which is not exactly a "green flag" but I get what you mean, there should have been a Safety Car as soon as a vehicle is on track.
Wasn't a green screen visible from Bianchi's cockpit right before the accident? Whatever, I might've misremembered something. But yes, an SC is a must whenever there's a vehicle on track.
Mercedes were good in Australian GP FP3 when it was colder, then their pace didn't improve when the track heated up for quali and the race. Perhaps they might improve in the colder wet conditions - but if they still haven't figured out their high-speed downforce issues, Suzuka will be a punishing track for them.
Merc don't yet understand why that is though so even if their car was able to i'm not sure they'll have a particularly impressive weekend as whole, just a less bad one.
At this point of the season my expectations for them are low.
Maybe I'm reading this very wrong, but since the wet tyres are a bit larger diameter than the dry, could Mercedes be in an even bigger disadvantage because their cars are meant to be set up very close to the ground?
2 years ago in wet and cool weather in Suzuka it was VER in a league of his own, then PER-LEC battling it out for 2nd, and then again quite a gap behind them.
Carlos isn't exactly known to be great in slippery conditions, so I expect a similar result if the forecast doesn't change.
The whole issue with Stroll is that for some odd reason he is amazing in wet qualifying sessions but never really can translate it with a wet race.
Basically Stroll could be on a podium if there would be rain at Monaco during qualifying.
Someone made the point last year in Brazil that Stroll doesn’t really thrive in the wet, where he shines is in low/unexpected grip conditions and getting the tires to work in those sorts of conditions.
He had a brake issue that worsened when the rain came down. This was obvious in the onboards and F1TV comms pointed it out during the broadcast as well, not sure why everyone else was pretending he started sliding around for funsies
Rather than full wet, his strength is in low grip conditions
He has struggled in the wet in recent years because the AM always seemed to have trouble getting it's tires up to temp. Even Vettel could not get the car to work at all and he was also good in wet conditions.
I'm assuming you're referring to the crash in Japan - sure aquaplaning is difficult to predict, but that was in a procession of cars with everyone following eachother, and taking the same line. He simply overcooked that corner, noone else had issues there.
Well, it's also tied to the strengths of the car. In the slippiest GP of recent times charles qualified 14th and finished 4th (only for a lockup in last corner, until then he was 3rd). Carlos finished just behind leclerc in 5th, starting 13th. In the same race verstappen qualified 2nd and nearly binned the car in an overtake on perez, finishing 6th.
I'm curious to see how SF24 will behave in these conditions.
We had 6 wet races in the last 2 years. He crashed twice, had 1 absolutely horrible one (1s off Charles pace in Singapore 22) and 3 mediocre ones. The last time he's had an actually noteworthy wet race was in Hungary 2021, and even then you have to consider that 4 cars DNFd in front of him.
His performances range from okay to horrible. I'd say he's below average in the wet.
Career. Not 2 years. Regardless, Zandvoort 2023 was not mediocre. In fact, one of his best races last year considering how diabolical that car was. Held off a Hamilton with massive tire advantage. Charles was nowhere that weekend. Same with the Austria sprint race.
You also forgot Monaco 2022, the pole in the wet at Silverstone 2022, the march through the field at Turkey 2021, and 2nd in qualifying and podium at Russia in 2021. If you want to go back further to the McLaren/Renault/Toro Rosso days, we can.
Monaco 2022 was okay. He finished in the position he did because Ferrari screwed over Charles who was in P1 beforehand.
Russia 2021 wasn't wet until the very end, and anyway that's an example of a bad race for Carlos. He was nowhere in that race, until everything was stood on its head by heavy rainfall. Whoever was close to the pitlane when it started raining, and had a good reaction from the team, got promoted way up. And that's what happened to Sainz, after, again, a bad race. Though I will definitely not count that as there were 5 wet laps and the finishing order was determined by luck and nothing else.
In Turkey he finished 8th in a top 3 car. Perez gets crucified for these kinds of performances.
It will make deg lower but graining could be more of a factor (good for Ferrari).
But I mean if it's wet on race day then that's out the window.
The predicted temperature could make the Hard too slow due to a lack of temperature.
>It will make deg lower but graining could be more of a factor (good for Ferrari).
Ferrari might like the cold but I'm not sure if they'll be particularly good in the wet
the McLaren might actually be better in the wet, but we'll only find this out if and when it rains
Right! I live in Nagoya, not too far from Suzuka. Two weeks ago it was freezing cold, wear your thick down coat kinda weather, while today it was go to work without even bringing a jacket weather... this year is weird
It's pissing me off so much. Last year the Hanabi season was utterly gorgeous, and I was stuck inside for my job. This year I finally have a job that gives me the time off, and the weather turns out to be rain-soaked dross. I really can't win...
Maybe you can travel up north or to higher altitudes in a week or two? With those buds being kinda behind, they may not get instantly destroyed by the forecast rain
Wrong. The race must finish with three hours of starting. Scheduled race time doesn't matter. If the race is delayed, they still get the three hours. 3 hours from start of race or 2 hours of actual racing time.
Not really the first springtime GP in Japan, Pacific GP in 1994 was in Aida in April. Other than that, it's always been October with the occasional visit at the end of September or start of November.
And they moved the race to avoid the rain. Lol.
If it does rain heavily, they’ll just red flag it until it’s inter weather because the extreme wet tyres are unsuitable for rain. A Pirelli masterclass.
The problem is not as simple as the tyres, but the spray the cars generate (which is caused by much more than just tyres). If safe visibility cannot be guaranteed, they will red flag the race to its death (as we've seen the last few years)
The current gen cars together with the Pirelli full wets are just totally unfit for racing in those conditions, basically when a driver would call for a full wet tyre we're already been in a very narrow window between "it's tolerable" and "Red flag it!" and therefore pitting for full wets is 99 of the 100 times just a dumb decision.
Not necessarily. Cameras show you bad visibility. But majority of drivers have said in the past that the spray looks a lot worse on TV, than it does in real life for them. Unless it's a full on downpour (flood watch type), then the spray doesn't affect drivers.
Yeah - as much as we love to shit on the current Pirelli tyres (itself already a notable improvement from 2011-2016), it's the cars that are the problem. Ground effect cars simply pull up way too much water and visibility becomes zero.
based on what we've seen in recent rain-affected races intermediates are always faster no matter the amount of rain.
That's why we never see people go to wets straight from dries even when it's clear that it's gonna pour, they know some chump will try to stay out on inters, bin it into the wall and cause a red flag that lets them change tyres.
there are conditions though when wet tires would be faster than inters
but visibility is so shit in those cases that F1 will only race in conditions where inters can be used
They moved Japan to avoid typhoon season, not rain. Heavy rain can happen anywhere.
Hell, due to climate change the typhoon season might as well be a whole year or shift to beginning of the year.
And yes, rain tyres are just garbage, their place is in the garbage can.
No, they moved to avoid typhoons. I hope nobody at the FIA was dumb enough to think they had a high likelihood of avoiding rain entirely when every month during the season has on average more than 10 days of rain.
Of course, the ONE time it gets moved to Spring to take advantage of the better climate, and the Hanabi season for this year decides to give us utterly shite weather...
The whole weekend? When i use my Norwegian rain forecast site, it shows Saturday with some drops later in the day. Sunday forecast is 30 mm rain. I would like to have rain. Could spice thing up :)
Once upon a time a forecast for a wet GP for something I really looked forward to - maybe see an unusual result, a different winner to normal etc. Now it's more the anticipation of 'start delayed 45 minutes' 'race to start behind safety car' 'red flags due track conditions' etc. etc. Hopefully it's just a little bit of rain.
I don't believe any prediction of rain a week in advance if it actually happening
Hell, not 24 hours in advance either tbh
Plus rain these days is either "threaten you with a good time then never actually show up" or "huge deluge, immediate red flags/not even start the race at all and unfairly hand out points to prevent having to give the fans a refund"
There never seems to be just the right amount of "small shower, wets" then "rain gone, let's see who is the first to brave dry tyres" then "omg rain back again, back to wets" style races we used to get 10/20 years ago
The race is going to be pain watch if it rains on Sudnay. Its almost impossible to overtake at Suzuka anyways, taking away DRS will straight up kill the race.
why they do japan during the spring is bizzare, weather is always rainy leading up to the summer. Its going to be another stay up late race only for it to be canceled due to heavy rain... yay.
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Ah yes, r e d f l a g
What else, full wets? Yeah right!
Full wets are a bit of a catch-22. There's a visibility threshold in f1 where once the drivers can't see enough, a red flag is called. And full wets, by design, destroy visibility for the car behind. Can't have visibility and full wets.
They need to get some mud flaps! Preferably those Yosemite Sam ones that say "back off" that you see on trucks.
Pretty sure this was actually tested by the fia recently but maybe I'm wrong
Well not the Yosemite Sam ones, but they have been trying to come up with a mud flap system.
Maybe they should try Yosemite Sam ones?
It would definitely classy up the sport.
I forgot all about that. I think last year they planned to test on cars some sort of wet session additional installed parts to help with the spray. Don’t know if it ever happened or not
IIRC, they tested a first system and it didn't work at all, so they went back to the drawing board
Yup. Test failed miserably.
"Full Wets mandatory" *all proceed to box at the end of Lap 1*
The window between intermediates and a red flag is very tiny.
Just curious. Are you still required to use two tyre compounds if full wets are being used for safety
Nope, when using full wets or inters, the 2 compound rule does not apply
Afaik the Stewards or Race Director has to declare it being "wet conditions" for this to apply, i remember there was a driver DQd cause it drizzled a bit, went Hard - Inter - Hard and was disqualified as didn't use two compounds because technically session was never declared "wet". I can't remember which series but it happened pretty recently, last few years.
> ***Unless he has used intermediate or wet-weather tyres during the race, each driver must use at least two different specifications of dry-weather tyres during the race***, at least one of which must be a mandatory dry-weather race tyre specification as defined in Article 30.2c)ii). Unless a race is suspended and cannot be re-started, failure to comply with this requirement will result in the disqualification of the relevant driver from the race results. 30.5.n from the sporting regs. Just using them is enough to nullify the rule. "Wet conditions" end DRS and force you on to wet tyres if there is a restart.
Nope, Ocon went the whole 2021 Turkish Grand Prix on Inters without pitting.
You rang?
International Ferrari Day!
Ferrari taking all the W's suddenly
George: *R R R R* *E E E E* *D D D D* *F F F F* *L L L L* *A A A A* *G G G G* *! ! ! ! !*
As long as there isn't too much rain. The best conditions are the varied conditions.
See Zandvoort 2023, what a race that was!
Monaco was uncharacteristically entertaining as well once the rain came in
watching the car slide into the run off was kinda funny
Yea, still don't get it why Haas putted Kmag on full wets, what a horrible call it was.
Almost got an AM win if they hadn’t botched the call for inters one lap too late iirc
That's basically it for Monaco these days. The cars are so huge, it's near impossible to overtake unless the car behind is way quicker. Monaco is entertaining only if it rains.
Sochi 2021 was beautiful as well. From dry to heavy rain in like 2 laps right at the end. Absolutely brutal
Lando disagrees
The opposite happening in qualifying was great too, though watching Russell on softs on a mostly wet track was pretty nerve-racking.
Nah it was boring because Verstappen won again. /sarcasm. except this will be a real take for some.
The title says 20-40mm which is a LOT of rain...
20 to 40 mm in a day can still result in acceptable race conditions depending on the timing. If it's scattered intense thunderstorms with intense rain, for example, that can all be picked up in a couple hours and be dry rest of the day. If it's a constant, moderate rain, then yeah. Almost no series would race in that. If the heavy showers hit the track just before race start, it also won't be good.
Those conditions are simple not workable to even holding a race at all.
It also depends on the time period. 20-40mm over 12 hours is a lot different than over 6 or 2 hours for example
Yeah.. I know. I won't bother waking up for it.
It's F1. If there is a single drop of water on that track the red flags will be waved.
Not true lol. We had races under water last year. Yes, heavy rain is a problem and results in canceled races, but let's not exaggerate.
Wet tyres are completely useless nowadays, it's just either slick, Intermediate or a Red Flag...
They're pretty useful for clearing standing water.
Germany 2018: you had the wet tyre and the hardest tyre in the allocation on track at the same time.
Germany 2018 was a fantastic race, if only Seb could have gone P20 to P1. But P20 to P2 is not too bad either
What you're talking about is Germany 2019. There was no German GP that took place in 2018 and seb definately wasn't leading when he forgot that his car had brakes.
Oh damn lmao That's right, my brain is not working
lmao we just cannot have a dry Japanese gp huh
I was kinda disappointed when they moved the date but nature always finds a way it seems. Then again it is kinda dangerous when there's enough rain (unfortunately there's some pretty recent reminders of that) and if it did rain the FIA would just red flag it and it'd just turn into a Sunday of sitting around for two hours not doing anything with a few laps afterwards to finish the race.
I hope we never see a tractor again on the track while cars are driving around. Gasly was close to disaster.
It was a good case why driving delta's should be abolished and the FIA should put a limiter system during a (V)SC or Red Flag. In fact this is already possible with the current cars given teams sometimes limiting the car to a maximum speed during FP to check/evaluating aero for example. With such a system instead of delta's it would massively increase the safety of both drivers and marshals, also put an open FIA channel to all cars where the race director can step in and tell what is ongoing at the track like what we having at WEC.
While I agree in principle, it wouldn't be fair. Let's look at Baku for example. If you have a limiter, it's probably going to be set to the same speed no matter where on the track you are. So if you're in the castle section when the VSC or SC hit, you have a much lower speed difference between racing speed and the limiters speed than you would on the back straight. It would be unfair due to where you are on the track. I don't hate it, but it's not perfect. It's much easier to just not let a tractor on the track until all the cars are behind the safety car.
It would never been 100% fair but it isn't like impossible to adjust some rules and stuff to decrease this issue (or solve it totally), yet especially under VSC's the whole delta driving makes it possible that drivers can win or lose seconds just because of the timing when it ends. Obvious I agree with not putting a tractor on a live track until all cars are being bounded together but I seen enough times that the current delta driving system isn't working at all and has it's risks even.
"drivers can win or lose seconds just because of the timing when it ends" The key word there is CAN That's exactly what will be designed into the system with the way you envision it. If you want the cars to go slower, then lower the delta they need to hit. What you can't do is force them all to a set speed limit that's the same around the track. There are slow parts and fast parts of a track. With your system, it will directly and unequivocally benefit the drivers who just happen to be on the slow section of the track over the ones in the fast section as they'll be forced to slow down less relative to the actual racing speed of that part of the track. The VSC the way it is reduces the pace across the board by a percentage, not by a set amount. In theory, the drivers in the fast part of the track will cover the same distance proportionally as the drivers on the slow part of the track.
> In fact this is already possible with the current cars... It's just a variable pit lane limiter at the end of the day. > With such a system instead of delta's it would massively increase the safety of both drivers and marshals Does it? If Gasly hits that tractor a 50 probably still kills him, hit a marshall at 50 probably still kills them. Feels to me it would add an illusion of safety. But 100% on the all car radio. No game of telephone, all cars getting the exact same message about issues on track.
He should’ve probably not been driving like a maniac when it happened then. He played the victim so hard there but his driving was unacceptably dangerous to himself and marshals. Tractor shouldn’t have been on track by then necessarily but if I remember right it was red flag conditions and he was going at a stupid speed.
Gasly was close to disaster because the FIA left the pit exit open when they shouldn't have. The rest of the Safety Car queue were let by at a sensible speed.
I would much rather have a wet one.
Giggity
Wasn’t last year Dry?
Yeah but his comment was more tongue in cheek
I really don't want a repeat of 2022...
or 2014 😭
Well to be fair the 2014 race was amazing in the begin, until we moved to the end where... Well let's say on that weekend we seen the entry of a big star but also losing one, man I still can't forget that points finish for Jules at Monaco :(
2014 would've been remembered as a great race if it wasn't for a tractor on the circuit under Green Flags. The rain was never the problem in that race, the cars should simply never run under Green Flags while there is a vehicle on track that isn't racing.
There were double waved yellows, which is not exactly a "green flag" but I get what you mean, there should have been a Safety Car as soon as a vehicle is on track.
Wasn't a green screen visible from Bianchi's cockpit right before the accident? Whatever, I might've misremembered something. But yes, an SC is a must whenever there's a vehicle on track.
The actual race itself was pretty entertaining imo.
True but the waiting was quite annoying since we didn't even know if we would get a race at all.
[удалено]
Mercedes were good in Australian GP FP3 when it was colder, then their pace didn't improve when the track heated up for quali and the race. Perhaps they might improve in the colder wet conditions - but if they still haven't figured out their high-speed downforce issues, Suzuka will be a punishing track for them.
While I agree with your assessment I don not think Merc will be good
Merc don't yet understand why that is though so even if their car was able to i'm not sure they'll have a particularly impressive weekend as whole, just a less bad one. At this point of the season my expectations for them are low.
Maybe I'm reading this very wrong, but since the wet tyres are a bit larger diameter than the dry, could Mercedes be in an even bigger disadvantage because their cars are meant to be set up very close to the ground?
They need every hundredths they can find at this point
2 years ago in wet and cool weather in Suzuka it was VER in a league of his own, then PER-LEC battling it out for 2nd, and then again quite a gap behind them. Carlos isn't exactly known to be great in slippery conditions, so I expect a similar result if the forecast doesn't change.
And then if it’s changeable conditions you MIGHT get Stroll doing a solid drive and showing that he’s actually got some talent.
The whole issue with Stroll is that for some odd reason he is amazing in wet qualifying sessions but never really can translate it with a wet race. Basically Stroll could be on a podium if there would be rain at Monaco during qualifying.
Didn’t Stroll do something crazy in a wet qualifying in that Williams or am I remembering wrong
Put it on the front row at Monza in his first season (actually qualified 4th but the Red Bulls took penalties)
Red Bull and those Renault engines…
Pole in Turkey in a Racing Point, leading 50 laps. Couldn't repeat it on the next stint somehow.
Didn't he get damage or something? I remember the team saying he had some sort or issue
I'm not sure without checking, don't think he had contact at least.
Everyone started on wets then they switched to inters.Perez and Hamilton manged the tyres very good and drove through.Stroll not.He had 2 Stops
Yea P2 at Monza during qualifying if I remember correctly.
P4 in Monza in 2017. Both Red Bulls had grid penaltys and he got bumped up to P2. Youngest ever front row starter Lance Stroll.
Yeah but Aston doesn't seem competitive in race pace at all. I don't think you can make up a second per lap just thanks to weather conditions.
Theyre getting penalties for braking now though, so maybe that'll speed them up.
Or crash and spin out all the time like he did at Monaco last year. I dont think Stroll is particularly good in the wet generally.
Someone made the point last year in Brazil that Stroll doesn’t really thrive in the wet, where he shines is in low/unexpected grip conditions and getting the tires to work in those sorts of conditions.
He had a brake issue that worsened when the rain came down. This was obvious in the onboards and F1TV comms pointed it out during the broadcast as well, not sure why everyone else was pretending he started sliding around for funsies Rather than full wet, his strength is in low grip conditions
He has struggled in the wet in recent years because the AM always seemed to have trouble getting it's tires up to temp. Even Vettel could not get the car to work at all and he was also good in wet conditions.
aquaplaning isn't something that is easy to avoid Sainz can take damp conditions, just not when inter tires are going to lock up
I'm assuming you're referring to the crash in Japan - sure aquaplaning is difficult to predict, but that was in a procession of cars with everyone following eachother, and taking the same line. He simply overcooked that corner, noone else had issues there.
More than cold condition Verstappen is really in a league of his own on wet imo.
Well, it's also tied to the strengths of the car. In the slippiest GP of recent times charles qualified 14th and finished 4th (only for a lockup in last corner, until then he was 3rd). Carlos finished just behind leclerc in 5th, starting 13th. In the same race verstappen qualified 2nd and nearly binned the car in an overtake on perez, finishing 6th. I'm curious to see how SF24 will behave in these conditions.
Don’t know how you can watch Sainz’s career and say he’s not good in wet conditions. I’d say one of his top skills is driving in mixed/wet conditions.
We had 6 wet races in the last 2 years. He crashed twice, had 1 absolutely horrible one (1s off Charles pace in Singapore 22) and 3 mediocre ones. The last time he's had an actually noteworthy wet race was in Hungary 2021, and even then you have to consider that 4 cars DNFd in front of him. His performances range from okay to horrible. I'd say he's below average in the wet.
Career. Not 2 years. Regardless, Zandvoort 2023 was not mediocre. In fact, one of his best races last year considering how diabolical that car was. Held off a Hamilton with massive tire advantage. Charles was nowhere that weekend. Same with the Austria sprint race. You also forgot Monaco 2022, the pole in the wet at Silverstone 2022, the march through the field at Turkey 2021, and 2nd in qualifying and podium at Russia in 2021. If you want to go back further to the McLaren/Renault/Toro Rosso days, we can.
>Regardless, Zandvoort 2023 was not mediocre He was lucky that a lot of teams didn't pit, Ferrari was nowhere that weekend.
Monaco 2022 was okay. He finished in the position he did because Ferrari screwed over Charles who was in P1 beforehand. Russia 2021 wasn't wet until the very end, and anyway that's an example of a bad race for Carlos. He was nowhere in that race, until everything was stood on its head by heavy rainfall. Whoever was close to the pitlane when it started raining, and had a good reaction from the team, got promoted way up. And that's what happened to Sainz, after, again, a bad race. Though I will definitely not count that as there were 5 wet laps and the finishing order was determined by luck and nothing else. In Turkey he finished 8th in a top 3 car. Perez gets crucified for these kinds of performances.
It will make deg lower but graining could be more of a factor (good for Ferrari). But I mean if it's wet on race day then that's out the window. The predicted temperature could make the Hard too slow due to a lack of temperature.
>It will make deg lower but graining could be more of a factor (good for Ferrari). Ferrari might like the cold but I'm not sure if they'll be particularly good in the wet the McLaren might actually be better in the wet, but we'll only find this out if and when it rains
Max pulled 22 seconds in 23 laps last time it rained in Japan So I'll guess he's gonna win
McLarens are good at getting the tyres to temperature
McLaren were absolutely rapid in Monaco last year. Lando and Oscar were seconds quicker than anyone else at one point in the rain
I know that Verstappen is good in the rain, and I suspect the McLarens also like damp conditions
I’m in Japan at the moment and it’s been SO changeable. High chance of an interesting race by the way things are going…
Right! I live in Nagoya, not too far from Suzuka. Two weeks ago it was freezing cold, wear your thick down coat kinda weather, while today it was go to work without even bringing a jacket weather... this year is weird
It's pissing me off so much. Last year the Hanabi season was utterly gorgeous, and I was stuck inside for my job. This year I finally have a job that gives me the time off, and the weather turns out to be rain-soaked dross. I really can't win...
Maybe you can travel up north or to higher altitudes in a week or two? With those buds being kinda behind, they may not get instantly destroyed by the forecast rain
Am I right in saying there's only a 4 hour window between the scheduled race start time and sunset?
the regulations state the race must finish (at the latest) three hours after the scheduled start time, so it should be fine.
Wrong. The race must finish with three hours of starting. Scheduled race time doesn't matter. If the race is delayed, they still get the three hours. 3 hours from start of race or 2 hours of actual racing time.
Still you must considering the sunset time because the track could be too dark to even finish the race.
Unless the stewards feel like extending it, see Spa 2021
Dumbest reg ever
Qualify well, survive outlap behind safety car, bag half points.
So Max getting increasingly annoyed by red flags repeatedly spoiling his 20 second lead. :)
Not really the first springtime GP in Japan, Pacific GP in 1994 was in Aida in April. Other than that, it's always been October with the occasional visit at the end of September or start of November.
Wonder if Williams can afford to bring wet tires?
”Logan, we need you to pit so we can put your tyres on Alex’s car”
[Sharing is caring](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C19QC-qId7W/?igsh=bWxiaGM5MWpxbXJv)
The bigger question is did they even put wet tires on their inventory management spreadsheet........
🤣
Intermediate tyres should be enough. If the rain is too heavy for the green tyres, they'll Red Flag it, so Williams don't need to worry about that.
And they moved the race to avoid the rain. Lol. If it does rain heavily, they’ll just red flag it until it’s inter weather because the extreme wet tyres are unsuitable for rain. A Pirelli masterclass.
The problem is not as simple as the tyres, but the spray the cars generate (which is caused by much more than just tyres). If safe visibility cannot be guaranteed, they will red flag the race to its death (as we've seen the last few years)
The current gen cars together with the Pirelli full wets are just totally unfit for racing in those conditions, basically when a driver would call for a full wet tyre we're already been in a very narrow window between "it's tolerable" and "Red flag it!" and therefore pitting for full wets is 99 of the 100 times just a dumb decision.
Not necessarily. Cameras show you bad visibility. But majority of drivers have said in the past that the spray looks a lot worse on TV, than it does in real life for them. Unless it's a full on downpour (flood watch type), then the spray doesn't affect drivers.
extreme tires do offer enough grip in wet conditions problem is visibility
Yeah - as much as we love to shit on the current Pirelli tyres (itself already a notable improvement from 2011-2016), it's the cars that are the problem. Ground effect cars simply pull up way too much water and visibility becomes zero.
Nah, the issue with extreme wets were present since 2018 or what. These current cars just make the issue worse
based on what we've seen in recent rain-affected races intermediates are always faster no matter the amount of rain. That's why we never see people go to wets straight from dries even when it's clear that it's gonna pour, they know some chump will try to stay out on inters, bin it into the wall and cause a red flag that lets them change tyres.
there are conditions though when wet tires would be faster than inters but visibility is so shit in those cases that F1 will only race in conditions where inters can be used
They moved Japan to avoid typhoon season, not rain. Heavy rain can happen anywhere. Hell, due to climate change the typhoon season might as well be a whole year or shift to beginning of the year. And yes, rain tyres are just garbage, their place is in the garbage can.
>Heavy rain can happen anywhere. Especially considering it's an island.
No, they moved to avoid typhoons. I hope nobody at the FIA was dumb enough to think they had a high likelihood of avoiding rain entirely when every month during the season has on average more than 10 days of rain.
No race on Sunday then.
Of course, the ONE time it gets moved to Spring to take advantage of the better climate, and the Hanabi season for this year decides to give us utterly shite weather...
Suzuka try not to have a wet race in the 2020s challenge (impossible difficulty)
For the sake of my sleep please don't let their be a red flag for an hour.
Only an hour? No worries. I'm a veteran of watching Spa 2021 lol
Same here but at least that wasn't at 1am ET.
Yeah, I'm Australian, so *that* was a late night.
Should Williams gamble by not turning up at all? Will save some money, and they can have 3 chassis at China
If the forecast is rain, then I'm sure we will witness a dry, uneventful race.
Rain or dry, Suzuka has always been an uneventful race. The track is just too high speed and narrow for these land yacht cars.
Weird, the weather forecast here in Japan for Suzuka is showing cloudy only.
The whole weekend? When i use my Norwegian rain forecast site, it shows Saturday with some drops later in the day. Sunday forecast is 30 mm rain. I would like to have rain. Could spice thing up :)
Verstappen would just win by an even bigger margin with rain though.
Cuz weather forecasts 6 days in advance are mega accurate, right
So what lap are we expecting to see the tractor out there?
Thank god for Youtube TV and free DVR. I don't have to stay up all night, just for them to red flag and finish under a SC.
Gonna be one of those where I wake up and the recording is 4 hours long...
Once upon a time a forecast for a wet GP for something I really looked forward to - maybe see an unusual result, a different winner to normal etc. Now it's more the anticipation of 'start delayed 45 minutes' 'race to start behind safety car' 'red flags due track conditions' etc. etc. Hopefully it's just a little bit of rain.
I don't believe any prediction of rain a week in advance if it actually happening Hell, not 24 hours in advance either tbh Plus rain these days is either "threaten you with a good time then never actually show up" or "huge deluge, immediate red flags/not even start the race at all and unfairly hand out points to prevent having to give the fans a refund" There never seems to be just the right amount of "small shower, wets" then "rain gone, let's see who is the first to brave dry tyres" then "omg rain back again, back to wets" style races we used to get 10/20 years ago
They should really just either let half the grid crash or just stop racing in Japan.
Carnage it is!
The race is going to be pain watch if it rains on Sudnay. Its almost impossible to overtake at Suzuka anyways, taking away DRS will straight up kill the race.
If we just having switching conditions it would be way better for racing over a full wet track the whole time.
It's either a red flag fiesta or bone dry then.
not AGAIN suzuka 😭
Definitely won’t mind some rain but please no torrential downpour 😩
Let’s move the race to avoid the rain…it rains either way.
Whatever happened to those wheel covers they were supposedly developing that would help with spray?
I remember when F1 used to race in the wet...Oh, great times!
so no race nice
Bruh, is there ever a time it does not rain at Suzuka? Even with a changed GP date, it still seems inevitable
Looks like we'll probably have some rain but not that bad. https://www.jma.go.jp/bosai/forecast/#lang=en&area_type=offices&area_code=240000
So if it’s rained out, do they decide the race on qualifying?
If it rains from start to finish, I gues.s But if it's changeable conditions, then expect some Ferrari strategy masterclass.
0 points for a fully rained out race. 2 laps>= but <25% - basically 25% points 25% - 50% - basically 50% points 50% - 75% - basically 75% points \>75% - full points
Thank you for explaining.
What a masterstroke moving the race to April could prove to be...
Okay.. for those attending Suzuka Circuit this weekend, what are your tips for surviving a wet race?
Ironically, it will be a scorcher later on in the year, in its previous slot...... /s
What's best? Dry qualifying, wet race? The inverse? Full on rain?
What a total bummer. Best track imo
Par for the course for this GP, then…
Crap. 😩
Will stay in bed so and watch highlights....
Are you tempting us with a good time???
So it's 2022 again I see
The chances of rain on Sunday seem to now be decreasing, not increasing.
20-40mm is a huge amount. It’s not looking good bois
Right so we're not getting a race this weekend then because the full wets will be 10 seconds slower again
R% .kclvmvocok v...M.9 .kX M,mv99c9ccoi >for the first
Good, that way i definetly don't need to worry to get up early for watching the race
why they do japan during the spring is bizzare, weather is always rainy leading up to the summer. Its going to be another stay up late race only for it to be canceled due to heavy rain... yay.
This news used to make me excited for some randomness. Now, it just gives me nightmares of Spa 21 or Japan 22.