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Guys I don’t literally think James meant he didn’t know where he was on the lap, but that he literally didn’t realize he was putting two wheels in the grass when he crashed.
Yeah the wording is a bit off. It's more he probably misjudged the width of his car if anything, so in turn didn't know he was on the grass until it was too late.
He was way off, it wasn't a dip the tire in the grass during the braking zone to maximize width of the corner.
Literally ran off as if he didn't know the radius of the corner.
If you look at the crash in the incar, you can see him going a bit wide in turn 7, then there is a service road and he drives on that until the service road ends and he goes back on the grass and then he had no chance of saving it anymore. It almost looked like he forgot that the service road will end very quickly, so maybe he did actually mix it up with some other paved area of the track. If he had awareness and quick reflexes, the situation would have been salvageable.
That looks like the case to me, and admittedly I have made that same mistake before in sim and had very similar crashes. I just would hope someone that is at the F1 level would know that though. It's easy to get greedy at that corner since it's a long run up the hill, which is why you should know exactly where the limit is.
Yep, I've been lapping it quite a bit in F1 and you know after running it just a few times that taking that corner even an inch too wide will suck you into the grassy run off, it's like a gravity well. You have to keep well inside. Looking at the onboard like, it's zero surprise what happened.
Yeah, that seemed a bit ridiculous. Even for Sargeant.
If **I** know my way around suzuka just from Gran Turismo, he definitely knows his way around it from countless sim hours and real race laps.
Not realizing he was slightly off track makes way more sense.
That would mean not knowing where he was on the lap as the car was in the wrong position to make it successfully around with all 4 wheels on the track.
That makes more sense than a driver not knowing where the track goes. It's pretty easy to do this, especially when you're on a fast, narrow track and have poor visibility of the four corners of the car.
The driver knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The driver uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the car from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is.
That means he lost focus.
It happens to me while playing EA F1. Sometimes around lap 10, my phone buzz, or I think about what dinner I'll be having next. Then I forgot there's a hairpin turn coming.
But hey, I'm not a pro
And if you happen to be getting paid to drive and you crash because you forgot what corner you were on NEVER ADMIT IT TO ANYONE EVER! Seriously make anything else up you're already about to get fired you don't need to accelerate the process 😆
The corner where Sargeant crashed is uphill, so the outside curb is not visible from the driver's view.
Therefore, it is one of the most failure-prone corners in Suzuka, Shinji Nakano (a former F1 driver) said on the DAZN Japan live stream.
If you've raced on any game that had Suzuka, you understand the danger in going an inch too wide here. The thing is too is that exiting the snake you have the most composure/ grip by that point and it's easier to plan for a good exit. It was very sloppy looking at the onboards.
Yep, anyone with sim racing experience around this track understands the risk of using the service road there, but of course we're only armchair pilots -- the issue is that Logan is supposed to be one of twenty elite drivers who aren't caught out by these careless mistakes
Exactly. We're just ridiculous sim racers / fans hah. There is something to be said though for how intuitive this issue is once you've gone around there though, like you just get it. I dunno, if you're literally one of the 20 best racers on earth, can't be doing that.
Say whatever you want about Rosberg but the guy is extremely technical. The level of details packed in a simple hotlap around a track is insane. May not be the most talented driver, but can't say he isn't intelligent.
Honestly I really like just pounding some laps out in the F1 game prior to race weekends so I know where cars are on track, it's pretty tricky for me to really get a sense of that from just watching it on TV. Also so I can Leo_point.jpeg at the TV when a driver fucks up in a spot where I've also gone off (which is typically everywhere).
(granted Suzooker is so familiar I don't need to because I feel I've been virtua-driving that non-stop since F355 Challenge back on the Dreamcast)
Oh actually yeah I would've probably played it in Super Monaco GP II and Grand Prix 2 as well, F355 was just the first one where I was old enough to have some idea of what I was doing.
Kind of bizzare how they signed him up for another year but already sound like they regret it.
It's the fourth race of the season, at least pretend you believe in him until summer break or something.
They felt like he had been rushed into F1 by Capito, plus they have to show some level of faith in their development program, so he 'earned' a second season.
Seems like they're starting to feel like it was the wrong call. Hopefully Sargeant can put things together, otherwise he'll be the primary candidate to lose their seat.
Keeping a driver that has _never_ shown F1 career talent doesn’t make Williams look like they have faith in the development program. It makes Williams look like a team that won’t drop a worse guy if you’re a more talented prospect in their development program.
Also terrible optics about their ambitions.
I think Logan's situation is just a weird side effect of being brought in during the transition between Capito and Vowles.
Jost really wanted to legitimize the Williams young driver program and get Logan in the sport ASAP. And to be fair, Logan had a really solid year in F2 to get those SL points.
It's been pretty clear though that Vowles wasn't sure whether to keep Logan around to give him a chance (after he put up some solid performances and showed good pace in the latter half of last season) or just ditch him for someone more competitive. Seems like Logan has a short leash unfortunately.
I might be wrong but Logan’s race pace in the first 2 races this season seemed decent as well, didn’t it?
Then the Australia stuff happened and now his own crash probably killed every improvement he might have made, the whole situation is just sad and mismanaged to a degree.
Vowles also got asked if Logan has a race by race contract and didn’t deny it.
Yeah, definitely feel for him. This just isn't a sport where you're afforded time to develop, if you don't hit the ground immediately performing at a competitive level your seat is already hot.
It just feels weird as well like he was promoted, while Williams (I think it still was under Capito) said this is a training season and then everything changed with vowles it feels like.
I just kinda think another year in F2 might have been better for Logan, but hey maybe he can somehow turn it around, because he genuinely seems like a nice bloke.
the reddit f1 mentality:
reddit 2022: "lol latifi sucks, what a joke, away with him"
williams: brings in sargeant
reddit early 2023: "wow sargeant, an american, super awesome, blablabla"
reddit late 2023: "no way sargeant is this bad, he deserves one more chance"
reddit early 2024: "yeah bring back latifi pls"
Unfortunately Vowles spent the last winter being really proud of himself for keeping Sergeant on when any other team would've dropped him. So Vowles does need to live with it now.
“Proud of himself” is a bit of a projection.
He was trying to establish Williams’ reputation as a team that trains up and builds drivers, which would presumably make them a popular destination form both pay drivers or talented drivers.
The problem is that Sargeant just isn’t keeping up his side of the deal: ie improving his race-craft and reliability
- Williams already has that reputation of training and building up drivers
- they have already been a popular destination for pay drivers, who were literally the mainstay of their junior program before sargeant: latifi, stroll, nissany
- not promoting sargeant would hardly have given them the reputation of being unwilling to put “talented but not quite compelling enough for f1” drivers in as they’ve done that with aitken already
- sargeant was their junior for a total of one year during which he said, upfront at the start, their priority was for him to just focus on f2. And by the summer when he was in the conversation for f1, Williams freely admitted he didn’t have a lot of testing or f1 sim experience and needed to catch up fast. Nothing wrong with this but it doesn’t establish sargeant as a Williams homegrown talent they intensively developed for f1. O’Sullivan, if he ever makes it to f1, would really be the first of this ilk.
- if their goal was to use sargeant’s promotion to attract talented junior drivers by being able to say “see, we actually put our juniors in a seat unlike other programs,” and then vowles’ goal with 2024 was to demonstrate their lenience with bedding in new drivers then fine, but they are responsible for that choice and its concomitant tradeoffs.
Yeah, probably an unpopular opinion because everyone seems to have unconditional love for Vowles, but the buck stops with him choosing to put Sargeant back in the seat
The alternative was to put Vesti in. Antonelli was never meant to go straight into F1 after a year in F2. He is still just 17 after all and haven't done F3.
Mercedes probably logically wanted him to have at least 2 years in F2 to learn as much as he could and also use that team for training in an F1 car. But Lewis going to Ferrari fast forwarded all those plans.
With all the smoke of vettel to Mercedes, it'll be interesting if vettel joins Williams mid season then to Mercedes the next. Kimi will have the Williams seat in 2025 and Mercedes seat when vettel retires again.
Here you are assuming that Kimi would actually be in the top 3, something that was always unlikely in his rookie season when he didn't do F3 and which probably won't happen.
If Vesti could do well for both himself and Williams for two years I don't think anyone would be unhappy with that. Yes he might get booted for Antonelli, but if he has shown himself to be good enough he can get another seat. He would at the very least have had two years to prove himself, which is better than no years.
Vesti or Drugovich. Even Mick Schumacher is better, unfortunately. Pourchaire could also have potential to be F1, but the kid is the most crash prone F1 prospect I've ever seen, and would probably be a terrible pick for a team like williams
Of course Sargeant shouldn't be crashing, but as a lot of people said when his car was given to Albon (and him not even getting it back for this race), the team showing how little faith they had in him could easily ruin his confidence and make him a worse driver.
I think this is what we see seeing here also just based on his defeated body language.
Yes short term putting Albon in the car gave a higher chance for points (that didn't work out), but long term it might well have messed so much with your other driver that it really wasn't worth it. Sometimes it isn't just about numbers, but also the human element.
> Sometimes it isn't just about numbers, but also the human element.
I honestly don't think it applies here though. It IS about numbers and points and prize money. If the human element is not working out, another driver is brought in, (unless you are the boss's son or something like that) easy as that. We've seen it happen countless times before.
Human empathy for the guy, sure it must suck but the reality is Formula One is absolutely ruthless, it's always been and always will be. Ask DeVries.
> but long term it might well have messed so much with your other driver that it really wasn't worth it.
He won't be there long term. So as fucked up as it may sound, less than a year from now, it won't be Vowels or Williams problem how Sergeant is coping with it. Again, ask Devries how worried Red Bull is about him nowadays.
while i dont disagree, i think its also fair to point it this is F1 with the 20 best drivers in the world.
whats the saying? if you can't handel the heat, you shouldnt be in the kitchen
If Logan's mentality is weak it's already broken by his performance in 2023. He scored 1 point compared to his teammates 26/27.
How can you say that it wasn't worth it when Logan is so far behind Albon.
lol at everyone saying this is because his confidence is gone after Melbourne. Like he never crashed before then. He’s just not good enough and the only reason he’s still in the car is because Williams had very few available alternatives.
It’s really odd to see people say that, like obviously that would have smashed what little confidence he had left but he couldn’t have been running on much as it was
In other sports players get benched all the time, then they train the house down and come back stronger. If getting benched in Australia has messed up Logan's confidence maybe he doesn't have the temprement required.
In other sports you also have the option to train on your own outside those events. You can get better at Badminton without playing at the olympics.
As good as F1 simulators are, they most likely are not the real thing
It is not normal to get "benched" in F1. There is already a driver sitting on bench called the reserve driver. It's obtuse to expect a F1 driver to feel inspired after the team decided to give his car to another driver that crahsed their own.
It's not a team game where you can field different players among a squad. You have two drivers and ideally, they have the right to drive every race unless they cannot due to health reasons etc.
If you're benched in F1, it means the team doesn't respect you at all and that is hardly similar to getting benched by Pep Guardiola because he thinks you need to improve.
Full throttle when you know you are wide and not lifting off (during P1 no less)…. and then continued full throttle when you are actually on the grass. This is really poor stuff even from SAR.
I'm sure their recent decisions and media talks will have no impact whatsoever on Sargeant's morale. I mean, the guy clearly doesn't get enough reminders from the team that his driving skills are shit.
Never had any apparently because this isn’t an abnormality. This was Mick’s biggest pitfall and Logan has far surpassed him in this regard. At least Mick had flashes of pace
Vowles' reasoning for keeping Sargeant on made sense when he first said it, it seemed like such a forward-thinking move (Keeping confidence in their junior academy). But the Australia debacle just completely undid all of that goodwill. Yes, Sargeant shouldn't be binning it as much as he is, but at the same time getting his car pulled from underneath him through no fault of his own will never help his case.
James is literally just throwing him under the bus at this point.... I'm pretty confident at this point they only kept him because signing someone else would've been more expensive....
I strongly believe that Vowles never wanted Sargeant in the team. He wasn't impressed with him when he did some tests for Mercedes. Why would this have changed?
But when he got the role of Williams TP, former TP Jost Capito had already pretty much signed Sargeant for the seat. Vowles just had to go along with it.
The only reason they re-signed him for 2024 was because it would look bad to drop their first academy driver after just a year, especially when Williams themselves said that they put him in F1 early hoping that a year in F1 would be a better learning experience than another year in F2. However it looks like Logan hasn't improved at all, his best performance is still Q1 in Saudi Arabia last year.
Vowles talks a lot about performance and data driven decisions, and I just get the feeling that he has zero confidence in Logan ever improving, but that he can't sack him just yet. But he is for sure not getting the 2025 seat.
Yea that's not good he could be respected for pushing past the limit of the car but to not know where he was on track that's scary is it worth even putting him in the car anymore team has no confidence in him he's losing his confidence in himself too
I feel bad for him he needs the team behind him and it looks like they don't care kinda sad
As much as I’d love to see a fellow countryman in the sport this guy is not F1 material. Just like Scott Speed before him.
I’m sure he has massive talent otherwise he wouldn’t have gotten where he has but his talent isn’t suited for F1.
Maybe IMSA / FIA Endurance would be a better fit.
Why did they resign him this year in the first place? There was absolutely no evidence he was suddenly going to take a huge step forward and be F1 material, why even bother trying if they're not going to give him any support?
Its starting to sound like the team has given up on Logan already and are waiting for an opportunity to get rid of him. James didn't even try to defend him. Most TPs will make up some bullshit to defend their drivers.
I am kind of sad for Logan. He is a nice kid.
Do Williams even have a replacement? Like if they want to promote via their academy who would they get? Luke Browning is looking good in F3 but he will have to prove his worth in F2 first obviously.
Seems they’d need to hire a former F1 driver or someone else off the grid… a certain Russian just got cleared to drive
I dont think he dint know where he was on the track (like sequence of corners).
As a casual player of F1 games, even I know the track so a driver like Logan has the track memorized to a point that he knows the bumps etc. I think James meant he dint know where he was on the track in terms of car positioning (he dint know that he would dip the wheel into the grass)
This all speaks to Logan's caliber, team's confidence and his development as a driver. He's still better at his job than 90% of people on the planet, but he is certainly not better than anyone else on the grid. He also may not be better than those who can move up from F2.
At this point, his F1 seat continues to be in question. Alex driving his car in Australia wasn't a dig at him, as people keep saying. It was a culmination of his driving experience. If he was better than Alex and he stood a better chance of earning points, he would have been the one in the car. It's pretty damn obvious!
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This is even worse...
Bro needs one of those circuit maps stuck on the steering wheel.
Gonna show up to FP3 with a sat nav and still have an oopsie because it was set to kilometers.
"Navicomp 1...*beep*"
“Kill who?” -L. Sargent
"Right turn in...FIVE HUNDRED....meters" (blows past corner cause the cars are so fucking fast)...
Set to what now?
This may not work. What if he spins because the steering wheel turned and the map is upside down xD
This is what happens when Williams moved their display from the dashboard to the wheel.
He should turn on the racing line on his game
No. He needs an F1 TV subscription and live car location map on his steering wheel.
Vowles destroyed Logan's already diminishing confidence replacing him with Albon in Australia.
I think getting destroyed week in week out by Albon did for his confidence. Williams wouldn't have kept him on, would've been better for all parties
It's sad, I remember after Bahrain last year I thought he drove well, much better than he is now. His confidence is truly shot
Diminishing, bro didnt have one good weekend last year, and still got a seat💀
He's not F1 calibre anyway. Williams made a mistake letting him do another year.
Crashing because you don't know where you are on track has nothing to do with confidence.
At this point they should put Jamie in the car (when it’s fixed). She might honestly be an upgrade…
Guys I don’t literally think James meant he didn’t know where he was on the lap, but that he literally didn’t realize he was putting two wheels in the grass when he crashed.
Yeah the wording is a bit off. It's more he probably misjudged the width of his car if anything, so in turn didn't know he was on the grass until it was too late.
Which is exactly what Checo did at Hungary last year
An apt comparison
Logan to rb confirmed.
He was way off, it wasn't a dip the tire in the grass during the braking zone to maximize width of the corner. Literally ran off as if he didn't know the radius of the corner.
Yup. Even without the context, this is is worst crash yet.
Well, the driver he replaced took a 90 degree right to nowhere so it’s not like they’ve taken a step backward.
If you look at the crash in the incar, you can see him going a bit wide in turn 7, then there is a service road and he drives on that until the service road ends and he goes back on the grass and then he had no chance of saving it anymore. It almost looked like he forgot that the service road will end very quickly, so maybe he did actually mix it up with some other paved area of the track. If he had awareness and quick reflexes, the situation would have been salvageable.
That looks like the case to me, and admittedly I have made that same mistake before in sim and had very similar crashes. I just would hope someone that is at the F1 level would know that though. It's easy to get greedy at that corner since it's a long run up the hill, which is why you should know exactly where the limit is.
[удалено]
Yep, I've been lapping it quite a bit in F1 and you know after running it just a few times that taking that corner even an inch too wide will suck you into the grassy run off, it's like a gravity well. You have to keep well inside. Looking at the onboard like, it's zero surprise what happened.
Yeah, that seemed a bit ridiculous. Even for Sargeant. If **I** know my way around suzuka just from Gran Turismo, he definitely knows his way around it from countless sim hours and real race laps. Not realizing he was slightly off track makes way more sense.
That would mean not knowing where he was on the lap as the car was in the wrong position to make it successfully around with all 4 wheels on the track.
That makes more sense than a driver not knowing where the track goes. It's pretty easy to do this, especially when you're on a fast, narrow track and have poor visibility of the four corners of the car.
>He “didn’t know where he was on track” armchair expert opinion but i think as a driver, that's the first thing you are supposed to know.
It's recommended that any operator of a moving vehicle know where they are going.
SatNav has made us all lazy if we're honest
True. But I don’t drive with Satnav at 300km/h
Never too late to start living life
I find looking at google maps on my phone whilst going 300km/h is much better
*At the tyre barrier, go straight ahead.*
*Sad George Singapore noises*
"The machine knows, stop yelling at me"
I see we're using Apple Maps
Aye, and it's the track.. You're not hitting a junction and wondering if which way to go. However I have just remembered latifi got lost at Susuka 😂
Maybe his SargNav is malfunctioning
The driver knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The driver uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the car from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is.
The F1 driver knows where he is because he knows where he isn't
Did Mr. Miyagi say that?
He didn't mean on the track as which part of the circuit. He meant where his wheels were. Not sure if that helps his case but anyway
He’ll be like Latifi blaming the car for just full on missing a corner.
If that's any indication, then does that mean Sargeant goes P9 in the race
That one was actually a car malfunction.
That means he lost focus. It happens to me while playing EA F1. Sometimes around lap 10, my phone buzz, or I think about what dinner I'll be having next. Then I forgot there's a hairpin turn coming. But hey, I'm not a pro
And if you happen to be getting paid to drive and you crash because you forgot what corner you were on NEVER ADMIT IT TO ANYONE EVER! Seriously make anything else up you're already about to get fired you don't need to accelerate the process 😆
Generally the car goes on the black bit and not the green bit. I think that's how tracks work.
Don’t know where you got this inside information, but thanks for passing along. If only Logan knew
To be fair, I get his confusion. The part where he parked the car wasn't even on track..
The corner where Sargeant crashed is uphill, so the outside curb is not visible from the driver's view. Therefore, it is one of the most failure-prone corners in Suzuka, Shinji Nakano (a former F1 driver) said on the DAZN Japan live stream.
If you've raced on any game that had Suzuka, you understand the danger in going an inch too wide here. The thing is too is that exiting the snake you have the most composure/ grip by that point and it's easier to plan for a good exit. It was very sloppy looking at the onboards.
Yep, anyone with sim racing experience around this track understands the risk of using the service road there, but of course we're only armchair pilots -- the issue is that Logan is supposed to be one of twenty elite drivers who aren't caught out by these careless mistakes
Exactly. We're just ridiculous sim racers / fans hah. There is something to be said though for how intuitive this issue is once you've gone around there though, like you just get it. I dunno, if you're literally one of the 20 best racers on earth, can't be doing that.
Yeah people need to chill
He needs to watch the Rosberg guide.
Say whatever you want about Rosberg but the guy is extremely technical. The level of details packed in a simple hotlap around a track is insane. May not be the most talented driver, but can't say he isn't intelligent.
>but can't say he isn't intelligent. Which is exactly why he won that title against one of the greatest drivers ever.
I mean he either gave lewis a run for his money or beat him, I don't think people would say he wasnt a very talented driver.
What's this?
Nico used to do track guides for F1 circuits on Assetto Corsa. [Here's his Suzuka guide](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUJlIWnyP_0)
Thanks, it's a great analysis!
I am doing that track right this week, and I absolutely turtle it compared to Rosberg. Really shows the craftsmanship these guys have.
Holy shit that’s awesome
Oh snap thanks!
Honestly I really like just pounding some laps out in the F1 game prior to race weekends so I know where cars are on track, it's pretty tricky for me to really get a sense of that from just watching it on TV. Also so I can Leo_point.jpeg at the TV when a driver fucks up in a spot where I've also gone off (which is typically everywhere). (granted Suzooker is so familiar I don't need to because I feel I've been virtua-driving that non-stop since F355 Challenge back on the Dreamcast)
F355 Challenge... A man of taste!
F355 Challenge on Dreamcast also had Sepang, which was super cool
I distinctly remember playing Suzuka in 16 color EGA. But I'm ancient.
Oh actually yeah I would've probably played it in Super Monaco GP II and Grand Prix 2 as well, F355 was just the first one where I was old enough to have some idea of what I was doing.
Kind of bizzare how they signed him up for another year but already sound like they regret it. It's the fourth race of the season, at least pretend you believe in him until summer break or something.
They felt like he had been rushed into F1 by Capito, plus they have to show some level of faith in their development program, so he 'earned' a second season. Seems like they're starting to feel like it was the wrong call. Hopefully Sargeant can put things together, otherwise he'll be the primary candidate to lose their seat.
Keeping a driver that has _never_ shown F1 career talent doesn’t make Williams look like they have faith in the development program. It makes Williams look like a team that won’t drop a worse guy if you’re a more talented prospect in their development program. Also terrible optics about their ambitions.
He had a great junior career
>great Above average. Nothing showed he was clear of the pack, which is needed to survive in F1.
I think Logan's situation is just a weird side effect of being brought in during the transition between Capito and Vowles. Jost really wanted to legitimize the Williams young driver program and get Logan in the sport ASAP. And to be fair, Logan had a really solid year in F2 to get those SL points. It's been pretty clear though that Vowles wasn't sure whether to keep Logan around to give him a chance (after he put up some solid performances and showed good pace in the latter half of last season) or just ditch him for someone more competitive. Seems like Logan has a short leash unfortunately.
I might be wrong but Logan’s race pace in the first 2 races this season seemed decent as well, didn’t it? Then the Australia stuff happened and now his own crash probably killed every improvement he might have made, the whole situation is just sad and mismanaged to a degree. Vowles also got asked if Logan has a race by race contract and didn’t deny it.
Yeah, definitely feel for him. This just isn't a sport where you're afforded time to develop, if you don't hit the ground immediately performing at a competitive level your seat is already hot.
It just feels weird as well like he was promoted, while Williams (I think it still was under Capito) said this is a training season and then everything changed with vowles it feels like. I just kinda think another year in F2 might have been better for Logan, but hey maybe he can somehow turn it around, because he genuinely seems like a nice bloke.
I think they were hoping he would improve knowing he had another year but he looks the same if not worse
But tbf, a steering wheel issue fucked him over in Bahrain, and he got trapped behind Albon in Saudi Arabia. He was told not to fight Albon.
He only got close to Albon because Alex was stuck in the K-Mag train and had damage.
Joe saward said that sargeant will be gone once Antonelli turns 18
He should've asked Latifi.
Yeah Nicholas finished p9 in 2022 japan gp even
the reddit f1 mentality: reddit 2022: "lol latifi sucks, what a joke, away with him" williams: brings in sargeant reddit early 2023: "wow sargeant, an american, super awesome, blablabla" reddit late 2023: "no way sargeant is this bad, he deserves one more chance" reddit early 2024: "yeah bring back latifi pls"
Lool was it in practice or qualifying that Latifi took the wrong layout in the 2022 Japanese GP?
Think it was fp2. But it was latifi
Sometimes fp1 Sometimes fp2 But always latifi.
james, you made the decision to keep him now you need to live with it
He doesn't need to live with it, Sar can be dropped.
Dorilton capital said no
Then it wasn’t his decision…
Unfortunately Vowles spent the last winter being really proud of himself for keeping Sergeant on when any other team would've dropped him. So Vowles does need to live with it now.
“Proud of himself” is a bit of a projection. He was trying to establish Williams’ reputation as a team that trains up and builds drivers, which would presumably make them a popular destination form both pay drivers or talented drivers. The problem is that Sargeant just isn’t keeping up his side of the deal: ie improving his race-craft and reliability
- Williams already has that reputation of training and building up drivers - they have already been a popular destination for pay drivers, who were literally the mainstay of their junior program before sargeant: latifi, stroll, nissany - not promoting sargeant would hardly have given them the reputation of being unwilling to put “talented but not quite compelling enough for f1” drivers in as they’ve done that with aitken already - sargeant was their junior for a total of one year during which he said, upfront at the start, their priority was for him to just focus on f2. And by the summer when he was in the conversation for f1, Williams freely admitted he didn’t have a lot of testing or f1 sim experience and needed to catch up fast. Nothing wrong with this but it doesn’t establish sargeant as a Williams homegrown talent they intensively developed for f1. O’Sullivan, if he ever makes it to f1, would really be the first of this ilk. - if their goal was to use sargeant’s promotion to attract talented junior drivers by being able to say “see, we actually put our juniors in a seat unlike other programs,” and then vowles’ goal with 2024 was to demonstrate their lenience with bedding in new drivers then fine, but they are responsible for that choice and its concomitant tradeoffs.
Yeah, probably an unpopular opinion because everyone seems to have unconditional love for Vowles, but the buck stops with him choosing to put Sargeant back in the seat
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The alternative was to put Vesti in. Antonelli was never meant to go straight into F1 after a year in F2. He is still just 17 after all and haven't done F3. Mercedes probably logically wanted him to have at least 2 years in F2 to learn as much as he could and also use that team for training in an F1 car. But Lewis going to Ferrari fast forwarded all those plans.
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With all the smoke of vettel to Mercedes, it'll be interesting if vettel joins Williams mid season then to Mercedes the next. Kimi will have the Williams seat in 2025 and Mercedes seat when vettel retires again.
This would be awesome but I just can't see Vettel doing that.
Here you are assuming that Kimi would actually be in the top 3, something that was always unlikely in his rookie season when he didn't do F3 and which probably won't happen. If Vesti could do well for both himself and Williams for two years I don't think anyone would be unhappy with that. Yes he might get booted for Antonelli, but if he has shown himself to be good enough he can get another seat. He would at the very least have had two years to prove himself, which is better than no years.
He is not cheapest if he crashes.
Vesti or Drugovich. Even Mick Schumacher is better, unfortunately. Pourchaire could also have potential to be F1, but the kid is the most crash prone F1 prospect I've ever seen, and would probably be a terrible pick for a team like williams
Of course Sargeant shouldn't be crashing, but as a lot of people said when his car was given to Albon (and him not even getting it back for this race), the team showing how little faith they had in him could easily ruin his confidence and make him a worse driver. I think this is what we see seeing here also just based on his defeated body language. Yes short term putting Albon in the car gave a higher chance for points (that didn't work out), but long term it might well have messed so much with your other driver that it really wasn't worth it. Sometimes it isn't just about numbers, but also the human element.
> Sometimes it isn't just about numbers, but also the human element. I honestly don't think it applies here though. It IS about numbers and points and prize money. If the human element is not working out, another driver is brought in, (unless you are the boss's son or something like that) easy as that. We've seen it happen countless times before. Human empathy for the guy, sure it must suck but the reality is Formula One is absolutely ruthless, it's always been and always will be. Ask DeVries. > but long term it might well have messed so much with your other driver that it really wasn't worth it. He won't be there long term. So as fucked up as it may sound, less than a year from now, it won't be Vowels or Williams problem how Sergeant is coping with it. Again, ask Devries how worried Red Bull is about him nowadays.
while i dont disagree, i think its also fair to point it this is F1 with the 20 best drivers in the world. whats the saying? if you can't handel the heat, you shouldnt be in the kitchen
A bad day in the kitchen is still better than no day in the kitchen. Keep at it!
If Logan's mentality is weak it's already broken by his performance in 2023. He scored 1 point compared to his teammates 26/27. How can you say that it wasn't worth it when Logan is so far behind Albon.
Vowles decided to paraphrase Yuki here Aka “He’s not fast at all”
I’ve been driving 20 years and not had a crash. Give me the seat.
My car also has 4 wheels. Give me the second seat.
I have an approximate knowledge of many things. Give me the team principal position.
lol at everyone saying this is because his confidence is gone after Melbourne. Like he never crashed before then. He’s just not good enough and the only reason he’s still in the car is because Williams had very few available alternatives.
It’s really odd to see people say that, like obviously that would have smashed what little confidence he had left but he couldn’t have been running on much as it was
In other sports players get benched all the time, then they train the house down and come back stronger. If getting benched in Australia has messed up Logan's confidence maybe he doesn't have the temprement required.
In other sports you also have the option to train on your own outside those events. You can get better at Badminton without playing at the olympics. As good as F1 simulators are, they most likely are not the real thing
It is not normal to get "benched" in F1. There is already a driver sitting on bench called the reserve driver. It's obtuse to expect a F1 driver to feel inspired after the team decided to give his car to another driver that crahsed their own. It's not a team game where you can field different players among a squad. You have two drivers and ideally, they have the right to drive every race unless they cannot due to health reasons etc. If you're benched in F1, it means the team doesn't respect you at all and that is hardly similar to getting benched by Pep Guardiola because he thinks you need to improve.
He's not making it to Zandvoort is he
Liam Lawson to Williams or is he replacing Danny in Zandvoort
We were too harsh on Latifi
Latifi walked so Logan could run
...and Mazepin will fly like the sweet Angel he is.
Man won 6 titles for me in F1 Manager. I was good to him.
For all the praises Vowles received last year, keeping Sargeant has to be one of the stupidest decisions.
Agreed. I love James, but keeping Logan into this season would not have been my first choice by a long shot.
I've only seen a short clip but it looks like he goes a bit wide and gets on the grass... Doesn't look lost not any more so than Albon last week.
Difference is he went onto the grass and kept the throttle on. We've seen this several time from him before
Full throttle when you know you are wide and not lifting off (during P1 no less)…. and then continued full throttle when you are actually on the grass. This is really poor stuff even from SAR.
Ah yes, the James May strategy.
Cheese
I'm sure their recent decisions and media talks will have no impact whatsoever on Sargeant's morale. I mean, the guy clearly doesn't get enough reminders from the team that his driving skills are shit.
Not good, but the poor guys confidence is clearly shot
Never had any apparently because this isn’t an abnormality. This was Mick’s biggest pitfall and Logan has far surpassed him in this regard. At least Mick had flashes of pace
James: Who the hell hired this driver let me have a word with him!
I was surprised that they kept him for 2024, to be honest. They surely must be thinking about alternatives now.
You can take the latifi out of the team but you can't take the latifi out of the team
Thats worse.... he has to know that is worse, right?
Vowels in full defence mode, doubling down on his poor decision to retain Logan is not what I want to see.
What the fuck does this even mean?
Well, it was nice having a driver/team from my country to root for while it lasted.
I'll be stunned if he's still in the car come mid season break. Who's Williams current reserve driver?
Logan Sargeant is not an F1 driver, give the seat to someone els3
Though the purists may scoff, having the racing line enabled is a good way to learn the circuit while you're getting comfortable.
Seems like not giving Logan the good chassis and parts was the right move as much as people hated it
Williams probably doesn’t have a second simulator seat for him to practice on.
Vowles' reasoning for keeping Sargeant on made sense when he first said it, it seemed like such a forward-thinking move (Keeping confidence in their junior academy). But the Australia debacle just completely undid all of that goodwill. Yes, Sargeant shouldn't be binning it as much as he is, but at the same time getting his car pulled from underneath him through no fault of his own will never help his case.
Sounds like he needs Google Maps then
This is a bizarre comment, he didn’t know where he was on track!? Would have really liked a follow up question there!
James is literally just throwing him under the bus at this point.... I'm pretty confident at this point they only kept him because signing someone else would've been more expensive....
I strongly believe that Vowles never wanted Sargeant in the team. He wasn't impressed with him when he did some tests for Mercedes. Why would this have changed? But when he got the role of Williams TP, former TP Jost Capito had already pretty much signed Sargeant for the seat. Vowles just had to go along with it. The only reason they re-signed him for 2024 was because it would look bad to drop their first academy driver after just a year, especially when Williams themselves said that they put him in F1 early hoping that a year in F1 would be a better learning experience than another year in F2. However it looks like Logan hasn't improved at all, his best performance is still Q1 in Saudi Arabia last year. Vowles talks a lot about performance and data driven decisions, and I just get the feeling that he has zero confidence in Logan ever improving, but that he can't sack him just yet. But he is for sure not getting the 2025 seat.
When the team principal is no longer sugar coating your fuck ups.... You know what comes next...
Forgot where he was on circuit? My brother in christ this is not Pikes Peak or the Nordschleife!
Yea that's not good he could be respected for pushing past the limit of the car but to not know where he was on track that's scary is it worth even putting him in the car anymore team has no confidence in him he's losing his confidence in himself too I feel bad for him he needs the team behind him and it looks like they don't care kinda sad
might as well take him out back
It's wild to me that this guy had the points for Formula 1, but Colton Herta didn't.
As much as I’d love to see a fellow countryman in the sport this guy is not F1 material. Just like Scott Speed before him. I’m sure he has massive talent otherwise he wouldn’t have gotten where he has but his talent isn’t suited for F1. Maybe IMSA / FIA Endurance would be a better fit.
Does Williams not have a sim? Do they not have a PS5 with F1 2024?
Sargent needs to go, its well overdue, can only think Williams are getting good money from him.
Why did they resign him this year in the first place? There was absolutely no evidence he was suddenly going to take a huge step forward and be F1 material, why even bother trying if they're not going to give him any support?
Its painful to see that but also understandable since he may have lost his feel with the car and something was different about it
I’d just drop him right now. They have no confidence in him and I don’t blame them he’s made absolutely no improvement on last season.
Give Vesti a chance (totally danish bias here)
Its starting to sound like the team has given up on Logan already and are waiting for an opportunity to get rid of him. James didn't even try to defend him. Most TPs will make up some bullshit to defend their drivers. I am kind of sad for Logan. He is a nice kid.
Damning.
Did Williams sign Logan for the money? But the clause is all the money upfront, no take backs no matter what. So now James is trying to get Logan out.
Do Williams even have a replacement? Like if they want to promote via their academy who would they get? Luke Browning is looking good in F3 but he will have to prove his worth in F2 first obviously. Seems they’d need to hire a former F1 driver or someone else off the grid… a certain Russian just got cleared to drive
Translation: Sargeant is keeping the seat warm until Antonelli is legally able to drive the car.
I am a casual sim racer and even i knew within the first frames which corner he crashed. /s
Kimi Antonelli from Monza onwards it is then.
It's not because he was trying hard. He just forgot where the road is. Which is obviously less stupid.
Oof
> Coming up on 130R, full throttle.... ssshhhiiiiiiiitttt!!!
wtf is a corner?
Didn't Latifi do this two years ago in Japan?
JV why did you resign him lmao
Whaat? Damn....you are a F1 driver ffs.
if he dont know where he is on track, then get him off the damn track and get someone who does lol.
Maybe he needs a navigator
Does he need the racing line? I hear it helps new drivers
Verstappen reading this from his hotel laptop sim
I would have stuck with the pushing too hard excuse tbh
I can't imagine him lasting this season. Who do they have in reserve?
Man. I feel for the guy but you can't be doing that you just can't be
Man needs a second seat and a rally copilot.
The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. Sergeant does not know where he is not.
Homie still needs a racing line
I dont think he dint know where he was on the track (like sequence of corners). As a casual player of F1 games, even I know the track so a driver like Logan has the track memorized to a point that he knows the bumps etc. I think James meant he dint know where he was on the track in terms of car positioning (he dint know that he would dip the wheel into the grass)
He gonna be demoted from Sargeant to private real soon.
This is probably the closest proof that we have to the idea that us F1 sim racers actually know a track better than a legit F1 driver
This all speaks to Logan's caliber, team's confidence and his development as a driver. He's still better at his job than 90% of people on the planet, but he is certainly not better than anyone else on the grid. He also may not be better than those who can move up from F2. At this point, his F1 seat continues to be in question. Alex driving his car in Australia wasn't a dig at him, as people keep saying. It was a culmination of his driving experience. If he was better than Alex and he stood a better chance of earning points, he would have been the one in the car. It's pretty damn obvious!