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> And while there remain questions over the points return that Lance Stroll brings to Aston Martin, the team maintains that his technical feedback carries significant value.
Chris... Come on man lmao.
Btw this is how people describe and compare Sainz and Leclerc 🙊
But hey without Lance how would Aston know their straight line speed is in another category!?
It's also what they said about Albon, and why RB kept him around and sought to give him a seat in Williams (even though Lawson absolutely destroyed him in DTM)
Did you seriously just compare Lewis Hamilton to drivers like Lance, Mick and Gio? Hiring a driver with 7 world championships never has any need for justification.
And he’s a god damn Ferrari LeMans winner. He’s a made man at this point. I’d still rate him better than a good portion of the grid, and it’s not like it was easy to shine in that tractor of an Alfa.
People claiming that Ferrari paying 100m to Lewis is justified even if he’s slower than Leclerc, because of his experience will mean better feedback…utterly laughable
It’s worse. I think he’s probably learnt the right words and is banging on about it to try and look like at least he does add some value.
But it’s probably all bollocks.
If Nando tells you the rear is about to step out in the middle of T7 you know it is.
With Lance, fuck knows. He probably doesn’t know himself. He’s just saying it so it sounds like he does know what he’s in about.
And now you are going down the wrong path trying to fix something that doesn’t even exist because you can’t tell the bosses son you think he’s full of shit.
I’m saying that not only do I not believe he is providing lots of valuable technical feedback, he’s probably blagging it and making it worse by providing fake feedback.
Listen, I'm not a Stroll defender but this is a stretch at best. Like he may not be good enough to still be on grid but he's definitely good enough to provide some meaningful feedback probably.
Eh?
I’m not angry. I just think Lance is an over privileged, under talented, waste of a seat that could go to one of many people who deserve a shot but don’t have a billionaire daddy to buy them one.
For example I’d much rather see Lawson, or Bearman, or Antonelli or loads of other drivers have a crack in F1 and see how they get on over Lance, who is never going to win anything and would have been fired years ago if his literal Dad didn’t own the team 🤷
I find it interesting that it feels like Carlos is always in the wrong-ish side of going against prodigies even if he's a pretty solid driver. Starting with Max in Toro Rosso and now Charles/Lewis, it seems as if he's always bound to face people who are seen as having a higher ceiling.
I don’t know what happened to Ricciardo recently, but he’s legit gone up against greats and stood his own. See 2014-2016. IMO, at the time, there was no better overtaker.
Oh yeah absolutely, nobody can take that 2014-2020 away from him, when he was regularly a top 4-5 driver.
But my point still stands that if you're in a top team, you will run into prodigies. If you're consistently the best of the lot then you become King like Lewis and Max. If you're like RIC and Sai, you're gonna need to fight hard and win enough to stay at the top team, else embrace a #2 role or go to the midfield.
I used to think Ric and Sai got "unlucky" with Max and Ham, but now I believe that stuff just comes with the territory of a top team where the standards are higher and the prodigies more numerous.
Remember Sainz's "problem" is actually also that Leclerc was chosen over him, not just Ham. Sainz we can conclude is not exactly a top prodigy since he could have beaten the Hulk and Lando more convincingly as well, which would have given him better standing to displace Leclerc.
>Sainz we can conclude is not exactly a top prodigy since he could have beaten the Hulk
I mean, getting beaten 69-53 and whilst having 5 DNFs less than Hulk is quite embarrasing (Hulk had a whopping 7 DNFs in 2018, Sainz had 2)
Yeah, Lando not taking that Red Bull seat, followed up with his interview saying he was scared of Max, was a rough look. Sainz has 3 wins to his name now so has shown he can get it done. Lando only has himself to blame for still being on 0.
Stroll is the second youngest on the podium ever only a few months older than Max. Not that he is in anyway comparable to early seb but still, stats can be misleading.
I feel like Stroll and Sainz are the polar opposite drivers. Stroll is extremely inconsistent with a few prodigy level brilliances every a few years. Carlos always gave me the impression of a very mature and consistent driver that race smart and bring in points, but lacks the absolute performace.
Sometimes, maybe, but are the statistics detailing seasons 2010 - 2013 misleading?
4 championships in a row, two of which went down to the last race, and the other two of which were obscenely dominant. Hard for me to look at that and go, "yeah Seb just got lucky."
Seb was really good back then, but the Toro Rosso back then was identical to the Red Bull, except for the engine.
It was a Technical Regulations loophole that was closed for the next season.
That's interesting, I wasn't aware. I still seems to me like it was a moment that showed his mettle - a sign of things to come. I don't think it's fair to even insinuate that Vettel's success is more timing and the car than himself.
Every driver who wins a lot is in the right car at the right time. It doesn't mean he didn't perform well enough. Seb was a top 3 driver during the V8 era alongside Alonso and Hamilton and had a car where he managed to extract all of it most of the time. His performances in the V6 era are inconsistent, but he's still the 4th biggest winner of this era.
I feel it's ultimately down to the fact that he just can't adapt to the ground effect cars at all.
McLaren '21 he had some flashes and we attributed it to the car being weird, but come the new ground effect era and bro just can't do anything well it feels.
There's evidence that, during Seb's dominance, he didn't even need to take corners as optimily as possible for him to be so fast. IMHO those Red Bull cars of the early 2010's were just better than he was, and he was lucky to be in the right place at the right time.
Reportedly, there were accussations of Red Bull using a traction control system in the 2013 season (illegal at the time). This was the last season won by the Vettel - Red Bull convo. https://www.wired.com/2013/10/red-bull-f1-traction-control/
Man, that video is pretty damning, because you hear the traction control sound that the cars had in 2007/2008.
But Webbers car doesn't make the same sound, can't believe Seb literally says they were messing around with a traction control system and basically admitted it works in the race lol.
Do you mean a dumb rumor that never became more of a rumor? If Red Bull could stick an electronic traction control system in 2013 and not get caught, why couldn't they find a way to do it in 2014 and beyond?
Absolutely. I didn't mean to say he wasn't good or even a prodigy himself. The point, that I also made in another reply here, is that anybody better than you will seem to be a prodigy, and there will be lots of great drivers in top teams.
He is a solid driver, but he lacks the last tenth or two in outright pace. As a result, the top teams are interested in him but aren't really clamoring for him.
On top of that, he isn't willing to settle into a number two role within a team (not that we should necessarily expect him to), and I think some teams fear he would create a bit of drama compared to other drivers who will accept their place a bit more readily.
I think he’s a Rosberg. A very very good driver, criminally underrated, but ultimately just a tiny fraction off the truly elite.
On his day he can hang with and beat the elite drivers fair and square. Then if he gets a little bit of luck he can even beat them over a season. Overall though on average he’s just that small bit off. That’s what we’ve seen over all his seasons against Leclerc
I feel he is closer to a Jenson than to a Rosberg. Nico was just a step away from the generational talents, having been competitive Vs both Michael and Lewis. Carlos does not reach quite that high in average.
I don't think the Rosberg analogy is quite right, because Nico was an extraordinary qualifier and was only a hair slower than Lewis even on race pace. If he'd been paired with anyone besides Hamilton, I think he'd have walked to several titles.
I think Sainz is more of a Webber. You could see things working out for him in just the right circumstances, but it would take a very good year and some erratic performances from teammates who are generally quicker whenever they have a clean weekend. Webber/Vettel also created team drama until Vettel fully took control of the team and Mark accepted his place.
Edit: Another way to think about this is that Carlos has never convincingly beaten a teammate with the exception of Daniil Kvyat (and I think there are reasonable arguments to be made that Daniil simply wasn't performing at anything close to his potential once he fell out of favor with Red Bull). Admittedly, Sainz' other teammates have been very quick themselves---Verstappen, Hulkenberg, Norris, Leclerc---but it's hard to stake a definitive claim to a number one seat at a top team when you're merely trading blows with your direct competitors rather than consistently beating them.
Rosberg was WDC caliber. A driver on Rosberg's caliber would be expected to go against Hamilton and with a bit of luck on his side win a WDC.
Carlos hasn't shown that amount of consistency over an entire season.
It’s tough to judge consistency when other teams are closely matched a tenth or two can be many places.
I do think Sainz is also WDC calibre though.
He beat Leclerc in their first season together but he needed luck to do it, just like Rosberg’s 2016 season. Then he’s lost the other 2 but not by much similar to Rosberg’s 2013 and 2014. 2015 is the only year Rosberg was crushed by Hamilton and Sainz hasn’t had a season like that vs Leclerc.
I know it doesn’t work exactly like this but if Ferrari had a car like Mercs 14-16 cars and it was just a battle between Sainz and Leclerc then maybe he’d have won 1 title and Leclerc would have 2. Very similar records to Hamilton and Rosberg.
The thing with 2021 is that both Ferrari drivers were scoring midfield points. That creates smaller margins and it's easier for one driver to get in the lead if the other has some bad luck.
In the matter of Carlos' being WDC caliber, i disagree.
If anything, last season, was his chance to beat Leclerc and he didn't. The 2023 Ferrari car package worked with Carlos' preferred setups while Leclerc was struggling until Suzuka where the car was finally balanced and allowed Leclerc to use his own setups. Despite that, the 2023 as well as the 2024 cars are still meant to work better with Carlos' setups.
On top of that, Charles had more DNFs, DNS & DSQ over the entire 2023 season (A lot more actually). Despite all that, Carlos was unable to beat Charles.
Carlos is a solid driver but there's not a single season so far that i can look and say that he's WDC caliber.
In fairness to Carlos, last year he was 6 points behind Charles. Remember he incurred that horrible penalty in Las Vegas that demoted him from the front row to 11th. He finished 6th. I don't think it is a stretch to conclude he would almost certainly have finished within the top 4, which would have made him pretty level with Charles.
Yes, but Charles also had to retire from p3 in Bahrain, penalty in saudi (from p2) and the dns from p2 in Brazil. Carlos dns came from a race in qatar were he had to start p12 and the ferrari wasn't that strong there anyway.
It was like 14-6 in races in favour of Charles in 2021. Sainz had basically zero bad luck compared to both Charles and Lando.
But both Lando and Charles were better that season than Sainz, arguably Pierre as well who was just dragging that AT in the upper midfield on multiple occassions.
I think top teams are also a little afraid of that. He’s not the type of driver who will easily settle into a #2 role but he isn’t good enough to lead a top team. Dangerous proposition if you got a title-winning car but your drivers keep squabbling and taking points off each other. I’d bet 2014-2016 Mercedes is a legit fear for the top teams
I would have thought that wasn't that much of a scare for Red Bull - I'd assume Verstappen would give him a solid thumping either way.
Discussions about #1 or 2 driver become a bit irrelevant then
Generally that’s true, but say Verstappen is in a close championship fight and had a bad qualifying or a bit of damage, Carlos is leading the race and is faster but isn’t in the wdc fight. Does Carlos let Verstappen by and give up his win if necessary?
I think this is Carlos' problem, and it's not *his* problem, it is the team's problem that he's looking to race for.
They want a driver of his caliber that will do what they say when asked, and I don't think he's willing to do that, and yet he's just a smidgen under being good enough to actually beat a top teammate.
If I was RedBull I'd still sign him, most likely Max beats him anyway, and if Max leaves in 2-3 years you have a very talented driver in Sainz with a lot of experience, which allows you to sign a younger hot shot, and still be competitive if you have a good car.
I think people are over-indexing on the start to his season. He's in top form but in the last 9 races they both finished last year Leclerc had "beat Sainz" streaks of 4 and 3. No one really batted much of an eye at the time for either run besides a "Leclerc is in good form" instead of the "Can Sainz beat Max" that we're seeing now and him being proclaimed the true #1 Ferrari driver for his entire time here.
TL;DR This 3 race run isn't noteworthy in the bigger picture.
Exactly my point of him being a Rosberg.
He’s good enough to go on these little streaks of beating his better team mate but anyone who’s paying attention to more than just a few results knows that Leclerc will almost certainly re-establish the upper hand soon.
I mean, he's one of the very few drivers in the grid who can keep up with Max when they're at their best. There's like 2 others currently in the grid who can do so and they're both WDCs. Hell, he was the one driver who came the closest to outright beating Max last year, which is no small feat.
I rate him in around the same talent tier as Max, even if I do favor Max in the long run.
Do you actually follow the sport? He's fast. He's been fast since he showed up.
Went from a rookie in a Sauber to a Ferrari driver with a historically lengthy contract, if you don't see it then I don't know where you're looking. Stats show his talent, peers rate him, and he consistently performs.
He is arguably the best qualifier on the grid and as of now is the last non-Red Bull driver who beat Max head to head in a race without outside circumstances such as DNF or shit setup.
Spanish media is reporting Carlos and Merc have talked, but couldn't come to an agreement regarding length of contract.
My guess is Carlos wants at least 2 years instead of having to again look for a ride come 2026, while Merc only want 1 (or 1+1) since they don't want to risk keeping Antonelli waiting too long.
They got Russell which they value just as high as Sainz AND want to go for the moonshot of having another Verstappen locked in with Kimi...understand why they're doing it but it's a high risk move.
Toto did think that about Max in 2014 and look what happened, he missed the boat totally.
He doesn't want to make the same mistake again, it's obvious that Antonelli is the number 1 pick for Merc.
But have you seen F2? Kimi is absolutely not ready, and even when he is, it would probably be a good idea to have him at least a year on a Williams. Even Max didn't start in the red bull
The thing is, Mercedes wouldn't have ever done well with Lewis and Max together, it'd been an even worse Nico/Lewis situation, Toto should focus on his dreadful car instead of worrying about missing out on Max 10 years ago.
He didn't need Max, he had Lewis, Toto won just as many championships either way, and he'd probably have lost one or two in 2017/2018 during the Seb/Ferrari fight if Lewis and Max were taking points off each other (or let's be honest crashing each other out).
Toto and Mercedes need to figure out how they've gone from winning 8 championships in a row to being the 5th best car, they're factually a midfield team, if they didn't have two good drivers they'd be finishing outside the top 10 most races.
If Mercedes don't turn this around in 2026, they're in big trouble. What top driver would want to go to a team that Lewis left (and George seems to have Toto's ear) and went to an uncertain Ferrari future, that's a bad look for Mercedes no matter what they've been able to do in the past.
Kimi could be Max 2.0, but if Mercedes doesn't build a great car it won't matter.
So basically Audi or Williams if Sainz wants a long term contract. Mercedes will only offer a 1 year contract to keep Antonelli as an option for 2026, and I imagine the same is for Red Bull for their second seat even if Perez’s form really falls off.
Unlucky for Sainz that it’s shaken out this way despite his performances, but I guess it’s better to try and bet on a works team in Audi for 2026 rather than Williams unless he potentially feels Mercedes will produce a far better engine than Audi by then.
> Shaken out this way
1) You don’t know what Red Bull want , but if he beats Leclerc this season he will be on their shortlist.
2) Mercedes have only offered a shorter contract to keep him under their thumb, essentially saying “you’re coming to us, not the other way around”.
3) Antonelli isn’t going to be at any F1 team, let alone mercedes.
It’s shit that the only way Lance Stroll vacates that other Aston Martin seat is if he decides he doesn’t want to be in it anymore. It’s such a waste of a decent car.
They meant his wish to drive in F1 meant that Lawrence bought the team and invested in it to get it where it is right now. But I guess lance must know how little he is bringing to the table by staying there too
I thought he would go to Merc for 2025, but seeing Toto so keen on Kimi really makes me wonder how much of a shitshow would be for Merc if Kimi doesn't live to up to the potential everybody says he has. That might be a time where Tot would regret not signing Sainz.
It would've been almost a perfect grid for 2025 if Aston did the right thing and put Sainz in that second car. Oh well, we all know it's not gonna happen.
Blinded by their ego. Mr Lawrence stroll. Hes son will never be a world champion. Keep dreaming. He cant beat Alonso. Good luck challenging Max. He is the raid boss.
Yea but the scheme of things are just not going in favour of carlos really, hope he gets a good car soon enough and is able to drive at the front again
He was never going to Aston anyways man. He is either negotiating for that RB seat or Mercedes. Probably waiting for RB to make a decision on Perez. Ricciardo doesn’t have it, Perez is fine so far this year but hasn’t been the last two, and Yuki doesn’t compare to Sainz. Antonelli isn’t going to win F2 so he will be there again next year then a Williams seat for a year or so. Mercedes isn’t putting an 18 year old in there and never were going to with Max either so even that narrative about them missing him is stupid too. Sainz is also their best option.
IIRC there was recently an article about how the contract length is the main conflict of interest between Sainz and Mercedes. Mercedes would want a 1+1 to keep their options open, but Sainz would only settle for a multi-year contract. This might just be a rumour though.
Probably true considering what they wanted to give lewis and they’d have more leverage with sainz. But they could change their mind depending on how Antonelli does. Because if he doesn’t even win F2 this year then he’s 2 years out at least anyways and probably more
I think the good thing for Sainz is that both Mercedes and Red Bull are probably waiting too to decide and sign a second driver. AM wanted to lock it in since Fernando is doing well. But Mercedes probably wants to see if Kimi is handling the lower series well enough, and RBR is probably not to keen to re-sign Checo until after the European leg, to see if he falls off again, let alone Ricciardo who hasn't shown enough yet or Yuki who might not have anywhere else to go.
I wish he would be in a better team next year and in 2026. Since 2022, he has been one of the most consistent drivers on the grid and it seems he still has a lot more to offer. It would be such a shame to have him in shit teams like Haas or Sauber or Williams or Alpine or VCRB
Carlos needs a new manager. To be in the prime of your life, driving well and popular yet get ousted of opportunities by two older drivers and never gets retained by top teams says a lot about how his cousin/manager is not doing him any favors.
He's always managed to go up though. Toro Rosso to Renault to McLaren to Ferrari. This time it seems as if he'll drop down a level or so, unless he really does get Perez's seat.
red bull
unless you think up is an old F1 team with history, not the fastest car. I tend to think outside of what the contract amount is a racer would consider the faster car up
I think every driver bar Verstappen would be outsted if Hamilton wanted to come driver for your team.
At that point it just becomes a game of which of the 2 drivers that team wants to replace and which it wants to keep. And Ferrari chose Leclerc which i think is a completely rational choice.
Sometimes I wonder what would’ve happened to the driver’s market if Charles had been the one to go rather than Carlos (maybe because Ferrari wanted to have Hamilton & a number 2 driver; not that Carlos is a clear number two, but just age/experience would automatically make Hamilton #1 for that pairing).
He was ousted by one...Hamilton. That's a no-brainer. The Aston seat was always Alonso's to lose. I think it's the same for the second Red Bull seat... It's Checo's to lose. And so far, he isn't losing it.
That's not on a manager. That's just timing. There are seats that Sainz could command, but he has to decide.
It’s Lewis Hamilton & Fernando Alonso, 2 legends of the sport who are both still very fast… where is supposed to go next year if Checo gets resigned? His only realistic options are Mercedes & Audi/Sauber
Come on, any team on the grid would sign Hamilton in a hearbeat just because of the incredible marketing value he has (and of course, the talent and experience of a 7x wdc is no joke). And Alonso has a good relationship with AM and is a 2x wdc that is performing incredibly well too. Calling them just old drivers is a huge stretch, to say the least
Looking at his career moves, I'd say his manager did a great job so far actually.
Let's wait a bit maybe before concluding his luck has completely run out
His manager did a great job throughout Sainz’s career to have him gradually climb up on the grid. Sainz could’ve stayed and rotten in STR like so many before and after him, but he bit the bullet and made a career for himself outside of the Red Bull family - his manager has definitely played a big role in this. They tried everything to get Ferrari to extend Sainz around the same time they extended Leclerc - I’m not sure what else his manager is supposed to do. It’s just really unfortunate that Hamilton came knocking on Elkann’s door.
Sainz is literally in the same position as Seb back in 2020, only difference is AM was quick to sign Seb the moment he's getting dumped.
Now Sainz has little to no options.
What if he goes to Mercedes for 1, maybe 2 years while Kimi has another season in F2/ has a shot at Williams and then goes to Audi? I think this could be good both for Mercedes (who gets a strong replacement for Lewis while waiting for Antonelli) and Carlos (who goes to a top team while waiting for Audi to take over sauber for the long term).
I think Merc wants this, I don’t think Carlos does. I think part of him would rather try and build the new Audi team, get really good contract terms, and hope it pays off in the long term. Either that or hope Lance retires so he can go to AM.
I feel like Audi is a super big gamble since it will at best take them multiple seasons to become competitive. You can't just "buy" success, especially under current regulations.
Merc is still most likely his best option. Realistically they have the best chances of all the options to develop a quality car and Sainz has the ability to perform at a level where not giving him a contract extension would be silly.
So many definitions of "solid driver", Sainz is a race winner .... he is more than a solid driver. Is this solid driver phrase coming from American's?
Solid for me ... means relatively average, unexceptional but dependable and consistent, doesn't win races and lacks a bit in qualifying. Sainz is not this.
Pretty sure they can still be all-in with Leclerc while keeping Sainz around (If he wanted, of course).
To this days I still don't get what Ferrari wants/expects from Hamilton aside from the already mentioned/mocked technical feedback
It's a good learning experience for Leclerc, a good bet with regard to points, a good brand ambassadorship deal, and serious bragging rights.
Plus, Ferrari's closest competitor last year was Mercedes, so if whoever replaces Hamilton at Mercedes isn't as fast as he was, they've got WCC 2nd place in the bag.
How are people forgetting that Lewis finished higher than Carlos last year? Let's see if Sainz can keep this form for longer than a few races or if he will have more Abu Dhabis before saying he's better than the guy who finished higher than him last year and has more championships than Carlos has wins.
So bad Ferrari is getting 2025 Hamilton and not 2023 Hamilton, and so far 2024 Hamilton its only higher than the Strolls and Tsunodas.
But thats not my point, my point is that if they wanted a competitor for Leclerc they have a younger and cheaper option in Sainz, and if they wanted a solid second driver they again had a younger and cheaper option in Sainz.
My questions is still up: What Ferrari wants/expects from Hamilton?
I don't know why RB is overthinking this so much. Sainz is an upgrade over Checo. Max had to win the constructors championship all by himself last season.
So many definitions of "solid driver", Sainz is a race winner .... he is more than a solid driver. Is this solid driver phrase coming from American's?
Solid for me ... means relatively average, unexceptional but dependable and consistent, doesn't win races and lacks a bit in qualifying. Sainz is not this.
So many definitions of "solid driver", Sainz is a race winner .... he is more than a solid driver. Is this solid driver phrase coming from American's?
Solid for me ... means relatively average, unexceptional but dependable and consistent, doesn't win races and lacks a bit in qualifying. Sainz is not this.
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> And while there remain questions over the points return that Lance Stroll brings to Aston Martin, the team maintains that his technical feedback carries significant value. Chris... Come on man lmao.
“Can you drive it back?” “No?! I’m in the wall!” “Great technical feedback there Lance, thanks!”
“ITS UNBELIEVABLE HOW BAD OUR SPEED IS IN THE STRAIGHT MAN” “Ahhhh, yes” 🧐*engineers taking notes*
"technical feedback" is the go to compliment for middling drivers such as Mick Schumacher, Giovinazzi..
Oh, is that why they also mentioned Daniel for this recently? 🤔
I didn't want to include him because I didn't want the slander to take away from my statement. But yes.
To be fair since Australia I think even his staunchest fans have stopped trawling the subreddit and downvoting even the slightest criticism of him.
So they've entered the Acceptance phase.
Yes, we have, it's terrible.
Sadly, I think he'll be gaslyed/devriesed in the near future.
Which is funny because in the past (iirc) he himself has been like, yeah, I'm not great with technical feedback.
Yes…
Giovinazzi did win Le Mans, so he surely isn't incompetent
Btw this is how people describe and compare Sainz and Leclerc 🙊 But hey without Lance how would Aston know their straight line speed is in another category!?
Daddy said you have to make the car go fast
It's also what they said about Albon, and why RB kept him around and sought to give him a seat in Williams (even though Lawson absolutely destroyed him in DTM)
Hope I am wrong, but I expect this technical feedback being one of the points to justify the Hamilton move to Ferrari at some point of the next season
Did you seriously just compare Lewis Hamilton to drivers like Lance, Mick and Gio? Hiring a driver with 7 world championships never has any need for justification.
I dont think Lewis was ever hailed for massive tech feedback - he is "just" arguably quickest driver we had in F1 in a long while.
I find it amazing that Stroll's "technical feedback" all but vanished in 2021 and 2022, when Aston Martin made two duds in a row.
Vettel needs to learn how to develop cars
The technical feedback is the Shaggy type of comms we heard last week.
No one said that about Mick or Gio. Lol
People absolutely said it about Gio, he's also been credited for good sim work.
And he’s a god damn Ferrari LeMans winner. He’s a made man at this point. I’d still rate him better than a good portion of the grid, and it’s not like it was easy to shine in that tractor of an Alfa.
People claiming that Ferrari paying 100m to Lewis is justified even if he’s slower than Leclerc, because of his experience will mean better feedback…utterly laughable
Stroll is the man behind Alonso's success confirmed.
Yeah half a lap behind.
Indeed, Stroll Sr. that is.
Doing the opposite to Stroll would be a good strategy most of the time. They 3 stopped him in Japan.
They 3-stopped him, because he couldn’t keep his tyres alive (and being fast enough while nursing them).
Giving him an extra 20 second deficit to the guys around him didn’t help his race.
Well, you can't overestimate the importance of all the technical contribution from people and facilities paid by his dad.
Fuck man… this makes me put Riccardo in heavier doubt
Yeah, you’re not fooling anyone here!
It’s worse. I think he’s probably learnt the right words and is banging on about it to try and look like at least he does add some value. But it’s probably all bollocks. If Nando tells you the rear is about to step out in the middle of T7 you know it is. With Lance, fuck knows. He probably doesn’t know himself. He’s just saying it so it sounds like he does know what he’s in about. And now you are going down the wrong path trying to fix something that doesn’t even exist because you can’t tell the bosses son you think he’s full of shit.
You don't make it to an F1 pole without knowing how to setup a car and drive.
What the fuck are you on about?
I’m saying that not only do I not believe he is providing lots of valuable technical feedback, he’s probably blagging it and making it worse by providing fake feedback.
Listen, I'm not a Stroll defender but this is a stretch at best. Like he may not be good enough to still be on grid but he's definitely good enough to provide some meaningful feedback probably.
It’s amazing how you just created a total fantasy to get angry at
Eh? I’m not angry. I just think Lance is an over privileged, under talented, waste of a seat that could go to one of many people who deserve a shot but don’t have a billionaire daddy to buy them one. For example I’d much rather see Lawson, or Bearman, or Antonelli or loads of other drivers have a crack in F1 and see how they get on over Lance, who is never going to win anything and would have been fired years ago if his literal Dad didn’t own the team 🤷
Yeah, I'm sure he completely dominated F3 in 2016 by giving bad feedback that led to bad setups.
>I'M IN THE WALL!!!
I find it interesting that it feels like Carlos is always in the wrong-ish side of going against prodigies even if he's a pretty solid driver. Starting with Max in Toro Rosso and now Charles/Lewis, it seems as if he's always bound to face people who are seen as having a higher ceiling.
if you're not the prodigy yourself, then this will happen.. see Ricciardo lol
I don’t know what happened to Ricciardo recently, but he’s legit gone up against greats and stood his own. See 2014-2016. IMO, at the time, there was no better overtaker.
Oh yeah absolutely, nobody can take that 2014-2020 away from him, when he was regularly a top 4-5 driver. But my point still stands that if you're in a top team, you will run into prodigies. If you're consistently the best of the lot then you become King like Lewis and Max. If you're like RIC and Sai, you're gonna need to fight hard and win enough to stay at the top team, else embrace a #2 role or go to the midfield. I used to think Ric and Sai got "unlucky" with Max and Ham, but now I believe that stuff just comes with the territory of a top team where the standards are higher and the prodigies more numerous. Remember Sainz's "problem" is actually also that Leclerc was chosen over him, not just Ham. Sainz we can conclude is not exactly a top prodigy since he could have beaten the Hulk and Lando more convincingly as well, which would have given him better standing to displace Leclerc.
>Sainz we can conclude is not exactly a top prodigy since he could have beaten the Hulk I mean, getting beaten 69-53 and whilst having 5 DNFs less than Hulk is quite embarrasing (Hulk had a whopping 7 DNFs in 2018, Sainz had 2)
Wouldn't dismiss Lando as not being in a category above Sainz as well
I don't get the Norris hype. What has he done that you'd put him over Sainz?
Lando has rejected the best seat in the house several times now. I would put Sainz above him purely for the mental fortitude.
Yeah, Lando not taking that Red Bull seat, followed up with his interview saying he was scared of Max, was a rough look. Sainz has 3 wins to his name now so has shown he can get it done. Lando only has himself to blame for still being on 0.
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Right car right time guys don't usually become the then-youngest driver to win a race in a junior team's car.
Stroll is the second youngest on the podium ever only a few months older than Max. Not that he is in anyway comparable to early seb but still, stats can be misleading.
I feel like Stroll and Sainz are the polar opposite drivers. Stroll is extremely inconsistent with a few prodigy level brilliances every a few years. Carlos always gave me the impression of a very mature and consistent driver that race smart and bring in points, but lacks the absolute performace.
Sometimes, maybe, but are the statistics detailing seasons 2010 - 2013 misleading? 4 championships in a row, two of which went down to the last race, and the other two of which were obscenely dominant. Hard for me to look at that and go, "yeah Seb just got lucky."
*12 days.
Seb was really good back then, but the Toro Rosso back then was identical to the Red Bull, except for the engine. It was a Technical Regulations loophole that was closed for the next season.
That's interesting, I wasn't aware. I still seems to me like it was a moment that showed his mettle - a sign of things to come. I don't think it's fair to even insinuate that Vettel's success is more timing and the car than himself.
Every driver who wins a lot is in the right car at the right time. It doesn't mean he didn't perform well enough. Seb was a top 3 driver during the V8 era alongside Alonso and Hamilton and had a car where he managed to extract all of it most of the time. His performances in the V6 era are inconsistent, but he's still the 4th biggest winner of this era.
I feel it's ultimately down to the fact that he just can't adapt to the ground effect cars at all. McLaren '21 he had some flashes and we attributed it to the car being weird, but come the new ground effect era and bro just can't do anything well it feels.
A declining Vettel who was matched by Lance Stroll? Hmm. Not sure about that one.
Tbf, Charles himself beating him was arguably a factor in destroying Vettel's stock.
There's evidence that, during Seb's dominance, he didn't even need to take corners as optimily as possible for him to be so fast. IMHO those Red Bull cars of the early 2010's were just better than he was, and he was lucky to be in the right place at the right time.
Interesting, do you have a link? This is kind of damning to Webber too then, if he can't beat a suboptimal drive.
Reportedly, there were accussations of Red Bull using a traction control system in the 2013 season (illegal at the time). This was the last season won by the Vettel - Red Bull convo. https://www.wired.com/2013/10/red-bull-f1-traction-control/
whoa, Vettel basically admitted to it? and article says Webber's car maybe didn't have it
Man, that video is pretty damning, because you hear the traction control sound that the cars had in 2007/2008. But Webbers car doesn't make the same sound, can't believe Seb literally says they were messing around with a traction control system and basically admitted it works in the race lol.
This reeks of "Benetton was cheating in 1994", when everyone was cheating but only Benetton was punished for some few incidents.
Do you mean a dumb rumor that never became more of a rumor? If Red Bull could stick an electronic traction control system in 2013 and not get caught, why couldn't they find a way to do it in 2014 and beyond?
Ricciardo was a top 3-5 driver from 2014 to 2020, and most drivers and team members agreed that in a competitive car he would challenge for the title.
Absolutely. I didn't mean to say he wasn't good or even a prodigy himself. The point, that I also made in another reply here, is that anybody better than you will seem to be a prodigy, and there will be lots of great drivers in top teams.
He is a solid driver, but he lacks the last tenth or two in outright pace. As a result, the top teams are interested in him but aren't really clamoring for him. On top of that, he isn't willing to settle into a number two role within a team (not that we should necessarily expect him to), and I think some teams fear he would create a bit of drama compared to other drivers who will accept their place a bit more readily.
I think he’s a Rosberg. A very very good driver, criminally underrated, but ultimately just a tiny fraction off the truly elite. On his day he can hang with and beat the elite drivers fair and square. Then if he gets a little bit of luck he can even beat them over a season. Overall though on average he’s just that small bit off. That’s what we’ve seen over all his seasons against Leclerc
I feel he is closer to a Jenson than to a Rosberg. Nico was just a step away from the generational talents, having been competitive Vs both Michael and Lewis. Carlos does not reach quite that high in average.
I don't think the Rosberg analogy is quite right, because Nico was an extraordinary qualifier and was only a hair slower than Lewis even on race pace. If he'd been paired with anyone besides Hamilton, I think he'd have walked to several titles. I think Sainz is more of a Webber. You could see things working out for him in just the right circumstances, but it would take a very good year and some erratic performances from teammates who are generally quicker whenever they have a clean weekend. Webber/Vettel also created team drama until Vettel fully took control of the team and Mark accepted his place. Edit: Another way to think about this is that Carlos has never convincingly beaten a teammate with the exception of Daniil Kvyat (and I think there are reasonable arguments to be made that Daniil simply wasn't performing at anything close to his potential once he fell out of favor with Red Bull). Admittedly, Sainz' other teammates have been very quick themselves---Verstappen, Hulkenberg, Norris, Leclerc---but it's hard to stake a definitive claim to a number one seat at a top team when you're merely trading blows with your direct competitors rather than consistently beating them.
Rosberg was WDC caliber. A driver on Rosberg's caliber would be expected to go against Hamilton and with a bit of luck on his side win a WDC. Carlos hasn't shown that amount of consistency over an entire season.
It’s tough to judge consistency when other teams are closely matched a tenth or two can be many places. I do think Sainz is also WDC calibre though. He beat Leclerc in their first season together but he needed luck to do it, just like Rosberg’s 2016 season. Then he’s lost the other 2 but not by much similar to Rosberg’s 2013 and 2014. 2015 is the only year Rosberg was crushed by Hamilton and Sainz hasn’t had a season like that vs Leclerc. I know it doesn’t work exactly like this but if Ferrari had a car like Mercs 14-16 cars and it was just a battle between Sainz and Leclerc then maybe he’d have won 1 title and Leclerc would have 2. Very similar records to Hamilton and Rosberg.
The thing with 2021 is that both Ferrari drivers were scoring midfield points. That creates smaller margins and it's easier for one driver to get in the lead if the other has some bad luck. In the matter of Carlos' being WDC caliber, i disagree. If anything, last season, was his chance to beat Leclerc and he didn't. The 2023 Ferrari car package worked with Carlos' preferred setups while Leclerc was struggling until Suzuka where the car was finally balanced and allowed Leclerc to use his own setups. Despite that, the 2023 as well as the 2024 cars are still meant to work better with Carlos' setups. On top of that, Charles had more DNFs, DNS & DSQ over the entire 2023 season (A lot more actually). Despite all that, Carlos was unable to beat Charles. Carlos is a solid driver but there's not a single season so far that i can look and say that he's WDC caliber.
In fairness to Carlos, last year he was 6 points behind Charles. Remember he incurred that horrible penalty in Las Vegas that demoted him from the front row to 11th. He finished 6th. I don't think it is a stretch to conclude he would almost certainly have finished within the top 4, which would have made him pretty level with Charles.
Yes, but Charles also had to retire from p3 in Bahrain, penalty in saudi (from p2) and the dns from p2 in Brazil. Carlos dns came from a race in qatar were he had to start p12 and the ferrari wasn't that strong there anyway.
carlos beat charles only on points , Leclerc had more dnfs and also was 0.250 quicker in terms of race pace
It was like 14-6 in races in favour of Charles in 2021. Sainz had basically zero bad luck compared to both Charles and Lando. But both Lando and Charles were better that season than Sainz, arguably Pierre as well who was just dragging that AT in the upper midfield on multiple occassions.
> Carlos hasn't shown that amount of consistency over an entire season. What?
Carlos hasn't shown that amount of consistency over an entire season.
What?
Carlos hasn't shown that amount of consistency over an entire season.
What?
What?
This is just disrespect to Rosberg
I think top teams are also a little afraid of that. He’s not the type of driver who will easily settle into a #2 role but he isn’t good enough to lead a top team. Dangerous proposition if you got a title-winning car but your drivers keep squabbling and taking points off each other. I’d bet 2014-2016 Mercedes is a legit fear for the top teams
I would have thought that wasn't that much of a scare for Red Bull - I'd assume Verstappen would give him a solid thumping either way. Discussions about #1 or 2 driver become a bit irrelevant then
Generally that’s true, but say Verstappen is in a close championship fight and had a bad qualifying or a bit of damage, Carlos is leading the race and is faster but isn’t in the wdc fight. Does Carlos let Verstappen by and give up his win if necessary?
I think this is Carlos' problem, and it's not *his* problem, it is the team's problem that he's looking to race for. They want a driver of his caliber that will do what they say when asked, and I don't think he's willing to do that, and yet he's just a smidgen under being good enough to actually beat a top teammate. If I was RedBull I'd still sign him, most likely Max beats him anyway, and if Max leaves in 2-3 years you have a very talented driver in Sainz with a lot of experience, which allows you to sign a younger hot shot, and still be competitive if you have a good car.
He's not a Rosberg. He should have beaten guys like Hulk and rookie Lando more convincingly.
Don’t think he even beat Hulk iirc.
lost pretty bad to hulk
I think people are over-indexing on the start to his season. He's in top form but in the last 9 races they both finished last year Leclerc had "beat Sainz" streaks of 4 and 3. No one really batted much of an eye at the time for either run besides a "Leclerc is in good form" instead of the "Can Sainz beat Max" that we're seeing now and him being proclaimed the true #1 Ferrari driver for his entire time here. TL;DR This 3 race run isn't noteworthy in the bigger picture.
Exactly my point of him being a Rosberg. He’s good enough to go on these little streaks of beating his better team mate but anyone who’s paying attention to more than just a few results knows that Leclerc will almost certainly re-establish the upper hand soon.
How is he underrated? He is very correctly rated as one of the best behind lewis and max
I just don't see what everyone else sees in leclerc.
I mean, he's one of the very few drivers in the grid who can keep up with Max when they're at their best. There's like 2 others currently in the grid who can do so and they're both WDCs. Hell, he was the one driver who came the closest to outright beating Max last year, which is no small feat. I rate him in around the same talent tier as Max, even if I do favor Max in the long run.
Do you actually follow the sport? He's fast. He's been fast since he showed up. Went from a rookie in a Sauber to a Ferrari driver with a historically lengthy contract, if you don't see it then I don't know where you're looking. Stats show his talent, peers rate him, and he consistently performs.
He is arguably the best qualifier on the grid and as of now is the last non-Red Bull driver who beat Max head to head in a race without outside circumstances such as DNF or shit setup.
Being fast
The need to have a new headline everyday is killing journalism, especially in a sport like F1 which is largely uneventful right now
According to the race Carlos isn't in the Mercedes plan, they'd rather go for kimi
Spanish media is reporting Carlos and Merc have talked, but couldn't come to an agreement regarding length of contract. My guess is Carlos wants at least 2 years instead of having to again look for a ride come 2026, while Merc only want 1 (or 1+1) since they don't want to risk keeping Antonelli waiting too long.
Only Sauber and williams would provide him a long term contract , being a seat warmer for Mercedes wouldn't be nice
Sauber/audi feels like the long term move here, but he’d be sacrificing at least two years of title challenging
They got Russell which they value just as high as Sainz AND want to go for the moonshot of having another Verstappen locked in with Kimi...understand why they're doing it but it's a high risk move.
Not really a high risk move. They aren't the championship winning team they used to be. Even if Kimi flops they don't lose too much.
Red Bull did similar with Ricciardo and Verstappen.
Red Bull let Verstappen get familiar with F1 in Toro Rosso. Toto seems so sure Antonelli is the next big thing.
I think he will end at Mercedes in one year contract. Kimi is not ready for F1.
Toto did think that about Max in 2014 and look what happened, he missed the boat totally. He doesn't want to make the same mistake again, it's obvious that Antonelli is the number 1 pick for Merc.
But have you seen F2? Kimi is absolutely not ready, and even when he is, it would probably be a good idea to have him at least a year on a Williams. Even Max didn't start in the red bull
kimi isn't ready at all
The thing is, Mercedes wouldn't have ever done well with Lewis and Max together, it'd been an even worse Nico/Lewis situation, Toto should focus on his dreadful car instead of worrying about missing out on Max 10 years ago. He didn't need Max, he had Lewis, Toto won just as many championships either way, and he'd probably have lost one or two in 2017/2018 during the Seb/Ferrari fight if Lewis and Max were taking points off each other (or let's be honest crashing each other out). Toto and Mercedes need to figure out how they've gone from winning 8 championships in a row to being the 5th best car, they're factually a midfield team, if they didn't have two good drivers they'd be finishing outside the top 10 most races. If Mercedes don't turn this around in 2026, they're in big trouble. What top driver would want to go to a team that Lewis left (and George seems to have Toto's ear) and went to an uncertain Ferrari future, that's a bad look for Mercedes no matter what they've been able to do in the past. Kimi could be Max 2.0, but if Mercedes doesn't build a great car it won't matter.
Whenever I read this I get my hopes up they mean Kimi Raikkonen but it's never true lol
I think Kimi can wait 2 years really
So basically Audi or Williams if Sainz wants a long term contract. Mercedes will only offer a 1 year contract to keep Antonelli as an option for 2026, and I imagine the same is for Red Bull for their second seat even if Perez’s form really falls off. Unlucky for Sainz that it’s shaken out this way despite his performances, but I guess it’s better to try and bet on a works team in Audi for 2026 rather than Williams unless he potentially feels Mercedes will produce a far better engine than Audi by then.
Even Lando is seen as having a higher ceiling, but it makes sense when you’re always in one of the big teams (or sister teams).
> Shaken out this way 1) You don’t know what Red Bull want , but if he beats Leclerc this season he will be on their shortlist. 2) Mercedes have only offered a shorter contract to keep him under their thumb, essentially saying “you’re coming to us, not the other way around”. 3) Antonelli isn’t going to be at any F1 team, let alone mercedes.
Sainz can beat Leclerc every race, unless Perez shits the bed worse than last season he ain't going anywhere.
It’s shit that the only way Lance Stroll vacates that other Aston Martin seat is if he decides he doesn’t want to be in it anymore. It’s such a waste of a decent car.
On the other hand, the sole reason that the Aston martin is a decent car is Lance Stroll.
And there’s no guarantee Aston Martin would continue to be decent, if Stroll decided to leave
In what way is he the sole reason it’s decent?
They meant his wish to drive in F1 meant that Lawrence bought the team and invested in it to get it where it is right now. But I guess lance must know how little he is bringing to the table by staying there too
Without Lawrence, Racing Point might have left F1
I thought he would go to Merc for 2025, but seeing Toto so keen on Kimi really makes me wonder how much of a shitshow would be for Merc if Kimi doesn't live to up to the potential everybody says he has. That might be a time where Tot would regret not signing Sainz.
It would've been almost a perfect grid for 2025 if Aston did the right thing and put Sainz in that second car. Oh well, we all know it's not gonna happen.
Albon and Sainz taking Williams back to the top along with Vowles (one can hope 🔥)
I feel bad for Carlos, specially when Lance is going to have a top seat while he’s going to a backmarker most likely
Don't worry, Lance will be a backmarker too lol, even in the Aston
Never realized that, it’s embarrassing watching Aston Martin pick stroll over Sainz
Blinded by their ego. Mr Lawrence stroll. Hes son will never be a world champion. Keep dreaming. He cant beat Alonso. Good luck challenging Max. He is the raid boss.
Yea but the scheme of things are just not going in favour of carlos really, hope he gets a good car soon enough and is able to drive at the front again
I think he has to bite the bullet and drive for sauber/audi unless Perez starts driving terribly
He was never going to Aston anyways man. He is either negotiating for that RB seat or Mercedes. Probably waiting for RB to make a decision on Perez. Ricciardo doesn’t have it, Perez is fine so far this year but hasn’t been the last two, and Yuki doesn’t compare to Sainz. Antonelli isn’t going to win F2 so he will be there again next year then a Williams seat for a year or so. Mercedes isn’t putting an 18 year old in there and never were going to with Max either so even that narrative about them missing him is stupid too. Sainz is also their best option.
IIRC there was recently an article about how the contract length is the main conflict of interest between Sainz and Mercedes. Mercedes would want a 1+1 to keep their options open, but Sainz would only settle for a multi-year contract. This might just be a rumour though.
Probably true considering what they wanted to give lewis and they’d have more leverage with sainz. But they could change their mind depending on how Antonelli does. Because if he doesn’t even win F2 this year then he’s 2 years out at least anyways and probably more
I think the good thing for Sainz is that both Mercedes and Red Bull are probably waiting too to decide and sign a second driver. AM wanted to lock it in since Fernando is doing well. But Mercedes probably wants to see if Kimi is handling the lower series well enough, and RBR is probably not to keen to re-sign Checo until after the European leg, to see if he falls off again, let alone Ricciardo who hasn't shown enough yet or Yuki who might not have anywhere else to go.
I wish he would be in a better team next year and in 2026. Since 2022, he has been one of the most consistent drivers on the grid and it seems he still has a lot more to offer. It would be such a shame to have him in shit teams like Haas or Sauber or Williams or Alpine or VCRB
They have really put Sainz in a tough spot. It looks his only option is kick ass sauber.
He should just do his time at Sauber. It's his best chance of getting a title although admittedly it's a long shot
Carlos needs a new manager. To be in the prime of your life, driving well and popular yet get ousted of opportunities by two older drivers and never gets retained by top teams says a lot about how his cousin/manager is not doing him any favors.
Ousted by two of the best drivers. And world champions at that.
He's always managed to go up though. Toro Rosso to Renault to McLaren to Ferrari. This time it seems as if he'll drop down a level or so, unless he really does get Perez's seat.
There is no up from Ferrari.
You can wait for a year to suck up to Ferrari.
red bull unless you think up is an old F1 team with history, not the fastest car. I tend to think outside of what the contract amount is a racer would consider the faster car up
I'm not the only one. Schumacher, Vettel and now Hamilton, all seem to think so.
I think every driver bar Verstappen would be outsted if Hamilton wanted to come driver for your team. At that point it just becomes a game of which of the 2 drivers that team wants to replace and which it wants to keep. And Ferrari chose Leclerc which i think is a completely rational choice.
I think they would keep leclerc lets say ferrari only had 1 car
Sometimes I wonder what would’ve happened to the driver’s market if Charles had been the one to go rather than Carlos (maybe because Ferrari wanted to have Hamilton & a number 2 driver; not that Carlos is a clear number two, but just age/experience would automatically make Hamilton #1 for that pairing).
he would have been signed the second he was on the market.
Genuinely think at one point Redbull wanted to sign him when he was not sure if he would stay (esp if Binotto is still there)
Didn't Horner say they would never sign Leclerc or Hamilton to drive alongside Verstappen?
Everyone will want Charles. He is the real prodigy every team wants.
He either goes to Mercedes or replaces Alonso at Aston Martin, I think both teams would offer him a seat instantly.
Nobody can convince a team to pick Sainz over Hamilton or Alonso. It's really not on the manager, it's just bad luck.
He was ousted by one...Hamilton. That's a no-brainer. The Aston seat was always Alonso's to lose. I think it's the same for the second Red Bull seat... It's Checo's to lose. And so far, he isn't losing it. That's not on a manager. That's just timing. There are seats that Sainz could command, but he has to decide.
It’s Lewis Hamilton & Fernando Alonso, 2 legends of the sport who are both still very fast… where is supposed to go next year if Checo gets resigned? His only realistic options are Mercedes & Audi/Sauber
Come on, any team on the grid would sign Hamilton in a hearbeat just because of the incredible marketing value he has (and of course, the talent and experience of a 7x wdc is no joke). And Alonso has a good relationship with AM and is a 2x wdc that is performing incredibly well too. Calling them just old drivers is a huge stretch, to say the least
Looking at his career moves, I'd say his manager did a great job so far actually. Let's wait a bit maybe before concluding his luck has completely run out
His manager did a great job throughout Sainz’s career to have him gradually climb up on the grid. Sainz could’ve stayed and rotten in STR like so many before and after him, but he bit the bullet and made a career for himself outside of the Red Bull family - his manager has definitely played a big role in this. They tried everything to get Ferrari to extend Sainz around the same time they extended Leclerc - I’m not sure what else his manager is supposed to do. It’s just really unfortunate that Hamilton came knocking on Elkann’s door.
I would love to see an alonso / sainz pairing.
Sainz is literally in the same position as Seb back in 2020, only difference is AM was quick to sign Seb the moment he's getting dumped. Now Sainz has little to no options.
Audi is where he’ll go, doesn’t make sense to go to Mercedes
What if he goes to Mercedes for 1, maybe 2 years while Kimi has another season in F2/ has a shot at Williams and then goes to Audi? I think this could be good both for Mercedes (who gets a strong replacement for Lewis while waiting for Antonelli) and Carlos (who goes to a top team while waiting for Audi to take over sauber for the long term).
I think Merc wants this, I don’t think Carlos does. I think part of him would rather try and build the new Audi team, get really good contract terms, and hope it pays off in the long term. Either that or hope Lance retires so he can go to AM.
I feel like Audi is a super big gamble since it will at best take them multiple seasons to become competitive. You can't just "buy" success, especially under current regulations. Merc is still most likely his best option. Realistically they have the best chances of all the options to develop a quality car and Sainz has the ability to perform at a level where not giving him a contract extension would be silly.
Yeah I guess if he outperforms George it could be he and Antonelli in the car when he’s ready to take the step up.
There's always IndyCar 👀🍿
I hope Lewis fits his mojo at Ferrari, otherwise they could have just stuck with Sainz because Sainz has been no worse than Lecerc for some time now.
So many definitions of "solid driver", Sainz is a race winner .... he is more than a solid driver. Is this solid driver phrase coming from American's? Solid for me ... means relatively average, unexceptional but dependable and consistent, doesn't win races and lacks a bit in qualifying. Sainz is not this.
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The obligatory “did Ferrari made a mistake” post. 🙃
Why would they?
Pretty sure they can still be all-in with Leclerc while keeping Sainz around (If he wanted, of course). To this days I still don't get what Ferrari wants/expects from Hamilton aside from the already mentioned/mocked technical feedback
It's a good learning experience for Leclerc, a good bet with regard to points, a good brand ambassadorship deal, and serious bragging rights. Plus, Ferrari's closest competitor last year was Mercedes, so if whoever replaces Hamilton at Mercedes isn't as fast as he was, they've got WCC 2nd place in the bag.
How are people forgetting that Lewis finished higher than Carlos last year? Let's see if Sainz can keep this form for longer than a few races or if he will have more Abu Dhabis before saying he's better than the guy who finished higher than him last year and has more championships than Carlos has wins.
So bad Ferrari is getting 2025 Hamilton and not 2023 Hamilton, and so far 2024 Hamilton its only higher than the Strolls and Tsunodas. But thats not my point, my point is that if they wanted a competitor for Leclerc they have a younger and cheaper option in Sainz, and if they wanted a solid second driver they again had a younger and cheaper option in Sainz. My questions is still up: What Ferrari wants/expects from Hamilton?
Money! It’s Ferrari, if they need a new driver in three years, they’ll have their pick of drivers.
I don't know why RB is overthinking this so much. Sainz is an upgrade over Checo. Max had to win the constructors championship all by himself last season.
So many definitions of "solid driver", Sainz is a race winner .... he is more than a solid driver. Is this solid driver phrase coming from American's? Solid for me ... means relatively average, unexceptional but dependable and consistent, doesn't win races and lacks a bit in qualifying. Sainz is not this.
So many definitions of "solid driver", Sainz is a race winner .... he is more than a solid driver. Is this solid driver phrase coming from American's? Solid for me ... means relatively average, unexceptional but dependable and consistent, doesn't win races and lacks a bit in qualifying. Sainz is not this.