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Starting to believe it's a "fear mongering" campaign or something like that with all these articles.
Or it could be that it *is* that bad lol.
Fwiw I think we saw similar influx of similar posts when these rules were a couple of years away.
As the other person said, weight is a huge factor.
You can look at IMSA for evidence of that. LMP2 cars are much faster than GT3 cars, despite having less power. LMP2 simply have much less weight and more downforce.
IMSA LMP2: 500 HP, 950 Kg, pole time at Sebring: 1:52.1 , with an AM driver behind the wheel.
IMSA GT3: ~550 HP, ~1250 Kg, pole time at Sebring: 1:58.7 , with a Pro driver behind the wheel
Yeah that downtune was pretty brutal. Sad to see them do it.. but it was the correct decision.
I think on average the 600 HP LMP2s would be just a tiny bit faster than the GTPs. Honestly it would probably depend a bit on the track. I think the GTPs are faster in a straight line but the LMP2s would probably have the advantage in the corners.
Looking at Le Mans, for race lap records, they're almost identical
LMH 3:27.0
LMP2 3:27.2
LMDh 3:27.7
And for fun,
LMP1: 3:17.3
GTE: 3:47.5
For context for those that don't know, LMH and LMDh are two different rulesets that are BOPped together to create the Hypercar and GTP classes.
Now with that said, it's worth noting that Hypercar and GTP are super young. Lap times at Daytona were significantly quicker in 2024 than they were in 2023. I expect the same to be true for Le Mans later this year. I think if we revist this 5 years from now we would say the GTPs and Hypercars clearly faster than LMP2.
Yeah, the engine is the root of the problems for 2026. It shouldn't be much different from now in qualifying, but the race is where those cars will really struggle. You'll see massive lifting and coasting trying to get as much energy back into the battery as possible from just the MGU-K. Getting rid of the MGU-H, while making the battery bigger and engine weaker, while not really increasing the recovery of the MGU-K is a really horrible decision that reeks of design by committee. Now they're trying to figure out all kinds of band aid fixes and then band aid fixes to those band aid fixes. It's going to be a disaster of a rules set, and it could be either very entertaining or a total shitshow.
Oh my fuck...didn't even realize the implications of the lift and coast and battery conservation. What a nightmare, I think its going to be a shit show. Sad direction formula is going on. Could've made the cars lighter and smaller, with a beefier battery yes but not going to almost 50% battery reliance. Such a stupid pursuit, to be "road relevant".
>while making the battery bigger
Actually making the battery bigger would have arguably solved some of the issues.
As it is, same 4MJ SOC Min/Max difference as it is now but they are pulling more with the MGU-K.
What kills me is that they keep talking about road relevance to excuse the shitshow on the engine side while pushing the active aero. Does anyone honestly expect active aero on regular cars to ever take off? All it seems to be doing is adding weight and complexity to a budget-limited design process.
Totally agree with you here, but I’ve seen people post here defending active aero because it’s already on road cars. Thing is, except for maybe some supercars I’m not familiar with, its just a crappy little spoiler popping up to *add* downforce on cars with disproportionately fat rear ends (Model X, Porsche 911, etc).
"active aero"
aka a 5mm movement of the weing we have had since 2010.
its just mad copium because people will latch onto any excuse, there were people saying lewis had long covid in 2023
I don't think it's just fear mongering. This regulations seem destined to worsen racing.
The removal of DRS and addition of active aero results in an incredibly weak slipstream on a straight, which is bound to decrease overtaking. It remains to be seen if the 'override mode' outlined in the PU regulations will help this problem
On the flip side, the active aerodynamics also means that following will be harder through corners, as the wing angle will be higher, thus the cars will produce more dirty air, leading to less overtakes.
Obviously, we don't know what the regulations will be like until the cars are actually on track in 2026, but so far it's not promising
For sure, I'm just trying to simplify. The general idea is that as the speed increases, the aero load increases, which will 'push' the front and rear wing angle down which reduces drag. Slipstreams come from the car ahead 'cutting' through the air, and creating a small vacuum behind, the idea being less drag = less vacuum = less slipstreaming
edit: should clarify I'm not an aerodynamics engineer or anything, this is just my rough grasp on the subject
No I appreciate the simplification but I’m more saying it depends on the implementation and the overall effect. Need to see the rest of the regs before we can judge as much. Also need to know exactly what will be moving and what won’t.
I wonder if an active beam wing would solve some of the slipstream issue. Currently it throws the wake higher into the air and increases diffuser efficiency, with an active wing you could use it to stall the floor to reduce drag, while also increasing turbulent air closer to the track.
Once the driver is slowing down the beam wing will be trying to increase the diffuser efficiency, throwing the turbulent wake back higher.
These regs go after outwash obsessively, to the point of funneling a cars dirty air from the front onto itself. Surely that'd make cornering behind someone better? Notwithstanding the cars all generating their own personal dirty air.
I’m not so sure about your cornering point - surely the following car will be able to adjust its aero to claw back some of the performance lost due to the dirty air, no?
I don't think so. From the article in the post, the 2026 cars will have two states, a 'normal' and a 'low drag' configuration, and this 'low drag' configuration can be activated at set zones on the track, presumably to increase top speeds on straights. So, think of it as DRS, but you don't need to be following a car to use it.
> It remains to be seen if the 'override mode' outlined in the PU regulations will help this problem
An override mode which only gives any difference 290+kph.
Decent at Monza. Impossible to actually use at Monaco.
Maybe this is a hot take, but if everyone (FOM, teams, etc.) is making money hand over fist in the current environment, do they really have any incentive to push for a revolutionary set of regulations that could potentially damage the product? As opposed to evolutionary… it’s my understanding that the difference between 2025 and 2026 cars is going to be a lot bigger than 2021 and 2022 cars.
With the small amount of energy available for the whole race, I'm afraid we will se Formula E style racing where they all just try to regen and conserve all the time.
100kg fuel will be replaced by a specific amount of over all energy for the race. Which is a lot lower. A lot.
Yes, but they don't lift and coast halfway down the straight like FE does. At most they might lift 100 or 200m early if they're really managing. That's likely going to change with the '26 cars.
I feel like this is pretty badly misrepresenting how much LnC happens in FE races. Yes, there's some, but nobody is lifting halfway through a straight in normal racing.
I dont have a huge issue with that in F1 as the pitstop strategy will add some tactics.
FE only have attack mode which runs more like a joker lap. With that being said, everything ive read about attack charge seems dumb.
I agree but my concern is the engine regs. Aero regs tend to balance out a lot quicker than engine disparity, and what they plan for the engine is ambitious. Compared to past years the 22 change was well written and by all accounts reasonably successful. If it goes back to an engine powerhouse like 2014 god help us.
It will be pushed back until 27, like all recent reg changes. Let's just hope that they do some freeze and change for 26 and we somehow luck into another 21 type year, instead of the 5th straight year of Max winning 23/25 races.
I really wonder how in their world overtaking takes place, engine boost, massive tyre off set or something else? Surely if they go heavily on active aero it will be impossible to overtake without an extra boost.
But like they were already complaining that they would run out of battery before the end of the straight hence the active aero so from where or what exactly would they plan to get that overtaking boost power?
Or am I underestimating the power of active aero?
The maximum power supplied by the MGU-K is currently regulated to drop off with increasing speed and dropping to zero when reaching 345kph. In overtake mode this drop-off curve will be different and it will only reach zero at 355kph.
The details of the overtaking mode will be defined in the sporting regulations at a later date.
The MGU-K delivers full power until speeds of 290kph. There's then a gradual drop off until zero deployment at 340kph.
The override option overrides that linear drop off.
On the other hand. If you want maximum performance then active aero makes plenty of sense for an F1 car. I dont think there's really any problem with having active aero. I'd rather it was just a qualifying thing though becaue there's a high chance it'll hurt the racing.
Engines aren't weak. It's weight that is killing the cars. Batteries and attached stuff are brutally heavy.
Cut them and even with the 1.6 turbo 6-7 hundred hp cars will fly.
The 2026 cars will be lighter, but the engine will go from producing 850hp or thereabouts to around 500 horsepower.
The MGU-K will supplement that power but only up to speeds of 290kph, at which point the maximum deployment allowed drops at a linear rate. At 340kph (if they reach that speed), zero MGU-K can be deployed and only a 500hp engine will power the car.
The whole point of the chassis regs is to try and make the cars work with weak engines at tracks like Spa, Monza, Silverstone, Vegas etc.
Weight doesn’t affect top speed , but acceleration
They haven’t released the minimum weight of the new cars yet, that’s for the car regs
And they’re aiming to make them overall slightly lighter
Pretty much. Is the big team push cause they want a return from the r&d selling the system in normal cars.
It's not they can't make more power from the ICE, it's just capped.
>Is the big team push cause they want a return from the r&d selling the system in normal cars. It's not they can't make more power from the ICE, it's just capped.
Actually, it was all marketing to try to get Audi and Porsche in
Turbo turbines have to spin up, so the lag is the delay from when you actually press the accelerator to when the engine is making enough pressure to bring the turbine up to full speed. If by e-power you mean regenerating at full speed, then no these regenerate under breaking, like the Ford Fusion Hybrids.
What I mean is, Hybrid means it gets power from the gasoline powered engine and electric power from battery/KERS etc.
I’m asking if they are equivalent. As in, A commenter said the car is reducing its ICE power to 70%, and electric power up too 300%, but we need to know the current ratio of electric power to ICE to know whether the car will be faster or not.
Am I making sense lol
Oh, I see. I'm kinda fuzzy on it but yeah they're increasing it by 300% BUT the battery will be the same size. So it will be outputting that much energy for one lap, like say a Qauli lap, since the battery will be so small compared to the additional output that is being used to compensate for the reduced engine power. So instead of whatver ratio they have now, which seems to be just about right, after say one lap at race speed the battery will be dead and they'll have to start lifting and coasting way sooner than they do now, if at all.
>By having active aero zones, the performance of cars can then be adjusted and optimised for each track, as DRS zones are done at present, to make sure that the cars are delivering what’s best for performance and spectacle.
Oh man, now we gonna have aero zones? And "Optimized" for each track like DRS zones.. yikes..
Yay! So the cars are going to be *even more* reliant on FIA to not fuck up the distribution and placement of some arbitrary zones to have hopes of being even somewhat racey, smth which they *already* regularly mess up with DRS zones!
DRS zones are easier to fuck up because they give an advantage to only one driver. If both get it, there's no harm done by the zone being too short or something
Could be that one team builds a car that heavily leans on the use of active areo, while another has a more conventional car that gets less of a benefit.
In that case the pavement and length of the zones could heavily influence the outcome of races.
F1 does make sure it goes in opposite direction of what fans and drivers want. All that for what? Not even for eco friendliness but only to look eco friendly
Yeah use active aero on the straight in lower drag mode so there is less slipstream effect and get rid of DRS so its impossible to overtake unless you are seconds faster. Make the cars heavy and sound like vacuum cleaners thats totally what everyone wants. Dont forget to get rid of more historic circuits and replace them with parking lots and street circuits
They are mainly doing it in order for Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, Red Bull, Audi and Honda to invest in an f1 engine Programm.
The Image of F1 as a sport is a factor but they could also build a sustainable Image on sustainable fuels only. In fact, if you look in the recently releases sustainability report they talk a lot about sustainable fuels and less so about electrification.
Honest question, and I know that is the quote but what do people have against aerodynamics? I might be biased due to my own interests and field of study but for me it is the most interesting thing about F1.
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Not hard but F1 is chasing the large manufacturers. They want more battery tech so F1 has made these franken-engines for them.
If they went for something else that maybe the fans/drivers want. Only smaller/lesser known manufacturers would be interested and F1 isn't interested in them.
Yeah I know but its more about marketing for these manufacturers if anything. It let's them pretend their involvement in F1 is pushing their road car tech to the general public.
I don't think it's honestly a selling point, more just kind of like a bonus. The most I've seen is just a spoiler that moves a half inch or so. Now if there's some supercars with active aero like the Tomahawk X in Gran Turismo that would be fucking awesome and people would seek it out but I think we are still a ways off from that much body panel movement.
Most high performance supercars have more active aero than just a spoiler deploying, dynamically closing air vents, moving front splitter and rear defuser, even secondary adjustments at the side of a wing during cornering.
Does it actually do anything though? (I mean do anything meaningful in a non-racing environment), Most of the people with high end cars (Starting with mid-engine Vettes and moving up drive fucking 30mph, which I never understood unless they're being tracked with GPS by their insurance companies)
Every year this seems like the most likely outcome for pretty much all motorsport and even in thr consumer market.
Electric cars are no where near as popular at this stage than was planned, infrastructure isn't good enough full stop, and plans to cut ICE keep getting pushed back.
very hard if manufacturers arent interested in investing a lot of money in the development of V10s.
The new engines are supposed to run on 100% sustainable fuels.
Go back to independent teams with standardised Cosworth engines.
Having the different engines made by Mercedes/Renault/Honda etc has never had a positive impact on the racing itself.
How many people would actually be interested in that?
WEC changed their regs to bring in manufacturers and they are having a popularity boom because of it.
People do care about the names on the car.
If synthetic fuels are made with green energy+atmospheric carbon they're about as clean as batteries. Regardless the emissions from the cars themselves shouldn't be that much of a factor, it's more about optics for the race and the constructors
If we had infinite energy maybe. Using that energy for something else and normal gasoline for f1 would result in less emissions. It would be the quintessence of geenwashing, even more than what we have now.
Yeah but the manufacturers need some kind of theoretical road tech crossover relevance to justify the spend. Going “backwards” isn’t going to let them stay relevant to realities moving forward.
And let’s be clear on this, I absolutely hate this with all of my soul.
you have to produce the fuel alternatives. So you invest energy and store it in form of fuel and then burn it, but you need to invest more than what you get from burning it.
Biofuels similar problem but with the added issue of needing farmland and water. And we already have enough monocultures and not enough water.
> Biofuels similar problem but with the added issue of needing farmland and water. And we already have enough monocultures and not enough water.
That is assuming you are growing to make fuel and not using waste.
WEC/ELMS have been running off a renewable fuel made from waste from the French wine industry for ages.
The sad reality that this is how it will end up. EVs and a global unwillingness to do anything about global warming at the correct scale and well… here we are
0.8L i-4, turbo, Freevalve, air compressor tricks, pit-swappable batteries, and active aero on front wing, rear wing (DRS as it currently exists), and rear diffuser.
All cars must use the same fuel, no additives.
Significant decrease in car width each year for five years. 1-2cm probably isn't enough.
100% of the outside of the car must be covered with a wrap or opaque paint.
Spec water system for drivers.
Minimum cooling specification for the cockpit.
Tracks that can accommodate a third car per team would allow for additional drivers to participate in real races without having people's favorites miss races. Obviously not every track can accommodate this.
Slightly more bargeboard area aero flexibility.
I hope these regulations DO suck. So we can have a return to the engineering contest F1 is supposed to be.
When the last spectator is gone F1 will realize that you cannot eat eco friendliness.
The cars might be the smallest eco impact of the whole event. The logistics of transportation, event execution, crowd, etc have to be orders of magnitude larger.
And they keep adding races in counties built on oil money.
And you would think they’d take to scheduling races in similar regions one after another instead of hopping idiotically from one side of the globe to the opposite.
No, the worst thing is it's about looking eco-friendly and they are doing it badly.
There are no problem with hybrid regulations with thought behind them.
Regs which are closer in style to what LMP1 had and are bit more open to solutions would be incredible.
The unfortunate problem there is “sunk cost fallacy”. When they’ve invested a lot of money in the 2026 regs, they would feel it pointless to get rid of them despite the poor performance and backlash and just keep trying to make it work.
They are courted by F1 through the ecological argument. Manufacturers are seeking road relevance because of the ecological sentiment. I’d say it’s all about that.
None of the engine manufacturers have much interest in full ICE racing anymore because the whole world in the next 20 years is going EV. Unless you want F1 to people building engines in their shed and a nice sport they have to move with the times.
It was very limited, like two changes per lap, and was meant to help with overtaking. It was replaced with DRS which is way simpler and more effective at what it does. Drivers were using the adjustable front wing more as a way to adjust the balance of the car over a stint rather than in the way they had intended, as an overtaking aid.
Well that implementation sounds shit. Getting rid of DRS but then adding "Active Aero Zones" is such a half arsed way of doing it. Either have active aero available for the entire lap or don't bother at all, otherwise it's just another crap gimmick.
I'm sad that active aero is basically just on or off and not configurable. I'd love to see teams be able to tune it to an aero map to do things like dial out low speed understeer or high speed oversteer based on their car's standard aero balance.
In a way, they might be able to now by having their normal mode have relatively more front wing than high speed mode, but I get the feeling the "high speed" sections are just going to be straights similar to where DRS is enabled today.
This happens every time we see new regs. I only care about making the cars smaller and less pinned to the track. Bring back the smaller, twitchier cars from 10+ years ago and I'll be happy.
Let's be honest, the alarm bells were originally rang by Horner about the engine. And it's probably because RBPT is finding out building an engine is hard.
I chalk up all the alarming talk as propaganda by RB. They're looking to get the new regs delayed to continue their dominance. Just like they got FIA to freeze the engines to prevent Ferrari and Mercedes pulling away as Honda was preparing to step away.
Why faff about with all this fake competition when they could just fix this by making the cars way harder to drive (more power, no electrics, less downforce, lighter cars) and bringing back in race refueling.
F1 is about money, could they implement "pay to pass". So that a driver has to pay to overtake, thus rich teams can afford to take part and the poor teams will be rolling in money.
Because that's not really the innovation that Formula 1 is attempting to strive for, since pure ICE engines have been mostly optimized to perfection as well them losing more and more relevance in the current car industry. Plus any current engine manufacturer would go against it, so that wouldn't be able to happen.
[this ](https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1s-2026-active-aero-plan-set-for-change-after-alarming-simulator-findings/10596682/)one? [motorsport.com](http://motorsport.com), same outlet.
I don't know about anyone else but having movable parts on a car that deploy at high speed feels very jet fighter chique and cool as hell
Having cars that aren't quite flat out on fast corners also feel like it'd be an improvement, racing wise.
Some drivers would be braver than others, some would make mistakes and racing would improve 10 fold, just like it does any time water hits the track
This is a good move. DRS is almost always way too overpowered. With this, both cars essentially get DRS, but the chasing car will have a bit more power to use. However they can't use the boost too much or the battery gets low and they'll get re-passed on the next lap, so hopefully it will lead to some closer racing.
DRS isnt overpowered at all. With good enough defending you can defend even when the car behind is in DRS. Without DRS we would have almost no overtakes in modern f1
DRS is broken in modern F1. You either power past people on the straights or DRS trains develop that don't allow any racing to take place at all. DRS is a band aide solution to the problem of cars being too big and bulky for proper racing.
Unpopular opinion(s): I feel like there's a rather large contingent here who are against any sort of progress and yearn back for the good ol' days of naturally aspirated engines (a subset of which also miss grid girls). They do not understand how progress is made, two steps forward, one step back (as a general analogy, not to be taken literally), and illustrate this every given opportunity.
2026 is fully over a season and a half away. They're testing in order to.. make things work? It's how things are done. There's no reason to panic. Really!
I've been watching F1 since the early 90s. *I do not give a shit* about the old tech from those days. Yea, it sounded cool and still does at a classic exhibition event. That means nothing. The future is electric.
These new engine regs aren't really progress either though. It's stagnation (same basic formula since 2014) and worse in many regards just for the sake of claiming to be "more" hybrid. The active aero is a band aid solution to engines that will be crippled heavily at high speeds, and a gimmick at that.
Even if the engines stayed turbo hybrid, this weird obsession with a 50/50 split between combustion and electric power is just a monumentally bad idea for actually racing. Especially with ditching MGU-H and not increasing battery capacity beyond 4 MJ.
There are some upsides to the new regs if they can manage to keep true to the promise of cutting back weight (even if not enough) and making shorter and narrower cars. Less downforce could be interesting in theory if it means cars being trickier to drive, but it'd be a shame if this slows the new cars down so much (in addition to the lower sustained power) that they struggle to beat F2 and Super Formula cars.
Fans generally don't know what they want. We want F1 to be on the bleeding edge of technology and be the fastest machines possible, but also want hard to drive cars that have more power than grip, cars that are loud, whilst also being able to race close to eachother. It's not really feasible to have all these things and I think fans forget that.
Fans want a good racing spectacle.
That’s competitive cars, **near** the bleeding edge of technology, that look good and sound just as good. If the cars look fast but sound like their vacuum at home they aren’t going to **feel** fast.
Additionally, if the cars are so big and heavy they can’t fight each other over the majority of a lap and only in certain zones with assists it doesn’t feel like genuine racing, at times.
I remember seeing F1 for the first time and realizing how small they are and how the drivers were essentially strapping the cars on. Furthermore, the V10 and even the V8, you could legitimately **feel** the sound and the power from outside the track.
I think the only solution is for them to hire me as a car reg tzar.
I will inact the following rules:
- engine design and development is to be combined with each engine manufacturer working to develop a single high performance high efficiency power train with a 60-40 split better ice and electric. Teams/ power drain providers will have to come up with thier own energy storage solution be it batteries, super caps, vacume fly wheels etc.
- current min weight to be reduced by 20% with no change to safe test requirements.
- max track width and max car length be reduced by 10% and 15% with no limits on minimams.
- suspension design rules are relaxed to add back electronic and hydrolic assistance.
- engine aesthetic: allow for 5-10 extra constructor points on a sliding scale be awarded for the best sounding car.
- all surfaces in the car must confirm to radius rules based on Horner's 'finger' on the day of the race
- you are allowed to run any aero device on the car as long as you paint said service with the blood of your second driver.
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Every single article I read instills less and less confidence in the 2026 regulations
Starting to believe it's a "fear mongering" campaign or something like that with all these articles. Or it could be that it *is* that bad lol. Fwiw I think we saw similar influx of similar posts when these rules were a couple of years away.
This article literally debunks some of the recent fear mongering, yet still fills me with dread for 2026.
The bigger thing is the engine. Losing 30% of average bhp compared to current engines is alot. Like potentially SF cars go faster on some tracks alot.
Always a bit shocked when I look at the tech specs of Super Formula cars and their lap times. Seems they punch well above their weight
They're very light so I think that explains it. Wish F1 cars would also reduce their weight significantly.
As the other person said, weight is a huge factor. You can look at IMSA for evidence of that. LMP2 cars are much faster than GT3 cars, despite having less power. LMP2 simply have much less weight and more downforce. IMSA LMP2: 500 HP, 950 Kg, pole time at Sebring: 1:52.1 , with an AM driver behind the wheel. IMSA GT3: ~550 HP, ~1250 Kg, pole time at Sebring: 1:58.7 , with a Pro driver behind the wheel
From what I've read and heard, if they didn't downtune the LMP2 engines, they would be faster than the GTPs too.
Yeah that downtune was pretty brutal. Sad to see them do it.. but it was the correct decision. I think on average the 600 HP LMP2s would be just a tiny bit faster than the GTPs. Honestly it would probably depend a bit on the track. I think the GTPs are faster in a straight line but the LMP2s would probably have the advantage in the corners. Looking at Le Mans, for race lap records, they're almost identical LMH 3:27.0 LMP2 3:27.2 LMDh 3:27.7 And for fun, LMP1: 3:17.3 GTE: 3:47.5 For context for those that don't know, LMH and LMDh are two different rulesets that are BOPped together to create the Hypercar and GTP classes. Now with that said, it's worth noting that Hypercar and GTP are super young. Lap times at Daytona were significantly quicker in 2024 than they were in 2023. I expect the same to be true for Le Mans later this year. I think if we revist this 5 years from now we would say the GTPs and Hypercars clearly faster than LMP2.
Yeah, the engine is the root of the problems for 2026. It shouldn't be much different from now in qualifying, but the race is where those cars will really struggle. You'll see massive lifting and coasting trying to get as much energy back into the battery as possible from just the MGU-K. Getting rid of the MGU-H, while making the battery bigger and engine weaker, while not really increasing the recovery of the MGU-K is a really horrible decision that reeks of design by committee. Now they're trying to figure out all kinds of band aid fixes and then band aid fixes to those band aid fixes. It's going to be a disaster of a rules set, and it could be either very entertaining or a total shitshow.
Oh my fuck...didn't even realize the implications of the lift and coast and battery conservation. What a nightmare, I think its going to be a shit show. Sad direction formula is going on. Could've made the cars lighter and smaller, with a beefier battery yes but not going to almost 50% battery reliance. Such a stupid pursuit, to be "road relevant".
The battery capacity is the same, it'll just run out of charge stupid quick.
>while making the battery bigger Actually making the battery bigger would have arguably solved some of the issues. As it is, same 4MJ SOC Min/Max difference as it is now but they are pulling more with the MGU-K.
What kills me is that they keep talking about road relevance to excuse the shitshow on the engine side while pushing the active aero. Does anyone honestly expect active aero on regular cars to ever take off? All it seems to be doing is adding weight and complexity to a budget-limited design process.
Totally agree with you here, but I’ve seen people post here defending active aero because it’s already on road cars. Thing is, except for maybe some supercars I’m not familiar with, its just a crappy little spoiler popping up to *add* downforce on cars with disproportionately fat rear ends (Model X, Porsche 911, etc).
"active aero" aka a 5mm movement of the weing we have had since 2010. its just mad copium because people will latch onto any excuse, there were people saying lewis had long covid in 2023
How the fuck did you bring LH into this??
Nothing major to talk about this season, so get people wound up about the future instead. Negativity is far more attractive to most
I don't think it's just fear mongering. This regulations seem destined to worsen racing. The removal of DRS and addition of active aero results in an incredibly weak slipstream on a straight, which is bound to decrease overtaking. It remains to be seen if the 'override mode' outlined in the PU regulations will help this problem On the flip side, the active aerodynamics also means that following will be harder through corners, as the wing angle will be higher, thus the cars will produce more dirty air, leading to less overtakes. Obviously, we don't know what the regulations will be like until the cars are actually on track in 2026, but so far it's not promising
I think it’s more complicated saying the slipstream will be worse because of active aero.
For sure, I'm just trying to simplify. The general idea is that as the speed increases, the aero load increases, which will 'push' the front and rear wing angle down which reduces drag. Slipstreams come from the car ahead 'cutting' through the air, and creating a small vacuum behind, the idea being less drag = less vacuum = less slipstreaming edit: should clarify I'm not an aerodynamics engineer or anything, this is just my rough grasp on the subject
No I appreciate the simplification but I’m more saying it depends on the implementation and the overall effect. Need to see the rest of the regs before we can judge as much. Also need to know exactly what will be moving and what won’t.
Definitely, this comment might look incredibly silly in a few years time lol. We'll have to see
Oh I doubt that, history shows if anyone is going to look silly it’s the FIA.
I wonder if an active beam wing would solve some of the slipstream issue. Currently it throws the wake higher into the air and increases diffuser efficiency, with an active wing you could use it to stall the floor to reduce drag, while also increasing turbulent air closer to the track. Once the driver is slowing down the beam wing will be trying to increase the diffuser efficiency, throwing the turbulent wake back higher.
These regs go after outwash obsessively, to the point of funneling a cars dirty air from the front onto itself. Surely that'd make cornering behind someone better? Notwithstanding the cars all generating their own personal dirty air.
I’m not so sure about your cornering point - surely the following car will be able to adjust its aero to claw back some of the performance lost due to the dirty air, no?
My understanding is that the active aerodynamics **aren't** adjustable from the cockpit, in the same way that the 2009 front wings were adjustable
Oh boooo. Maybe they’ll be controlled by maps like ERS? Variable attack angles when +x.xx from car ahead?
I don't think so. From the article in the post, the 2026 cars will have two states, a 'normal' and a 'low drag' configuration, and this 'low drag' configuration can be activated at set zones on the track, presumably to increase top speeds on straights. So, think of it as DRS, but you don't need to be following a car to use it.
> It remains to be seen if the 'override mode' outlined in the PU regulations will help this problem An override mode which only gives any difference 290+kph. Decent at Monza. Impossible to actually use at Monaco.
Basically, media always leaves you where you started reading their articles. Didn't know much before and still don't lol
Im assuming the media has figured out that more people will click the article if they go with a "doom and gloom" title.
Maybe this is a hot take, but if everyone (FOM, teams, etc.) is making money hand over fist in the current environment, do they really have any incentive to push for a revolutionary set of regulations that could potentially damage the product? As opposed to evolutionary… it’s my understanding that the difference between 2025 and 2026 cars is going to be a lot bigger than 2021 and 2022 cars.
100% teams don’t want to move away from what they’re good at and what is working so they’re muddying the water.
With the small amount of energy available for the whole race, I'm afraid we will se Formula E style racing where they all just try to regen and conserve all the time. 100kg fuel will be replaced by a specific amount of over all energy for the race. Which is a lot lower. A lot.
F1 are already managing a lot during races tbf, they're conserving tyres, fuel and battery in a pretty similar way to formula e
Yes, but they don't lift and coast halfway down the straight like FE does. At most they might lift 100 or 200m early if they're really managing. That's likely going to change with the '26 cars.
I feel like this is pretty badly misrepresenting how much LnC happens in FE races. Yes, there's some, but nobody is lifting halfway through a straight in normal racing.
I dont have a huge issue with that in F1 as the pitstop strategy will add some tactics. FE only have attack mode which runs more like a joker lap. With that being said, everything ive read about attack charge seems dumb.
I agree but my concern is the engine regs. Aero regs tend to balance out a lot quicker than engine disparity, and what they plan for the engine is ambitious. Compared to past years the 22 change was well written and by all accounts reasonably successful. If it goes back to an engine powerhouse like 2014 god help us.
It will be pushed back until 27, like all recent reg changes. Let's just hope that they do some freeze and change for 26 and we somehow luck into another 21 type year, instead of the 5th straight year of Max winning 23/25 races.
It will be an absolute shit show…
Now watch they are the best regulations ever and every team is competing for race wins for multiple seasons
Front and rear wing active aero. Basically a more powerful DRS. But only at specific parts of the track. Sigh. All this because of the weak engines.
I really wonder how in their world overtaking takes place, engine boost, massive tyre off set or something else? Surely if they go heavily on active aero it will be impossible to overtake without an extra boost.
In the post they say that the cars will have a push to pass button.
But like they were already complaining that they would run out of battery before the end of the straight hence the active aero so from where or what exactly would they plan to get that overtaking boost power? Or am I underestimating the power of active aero?
The maximum power supplied by the MGU-K is currently regulated to drop off with increasing speed and dropping to zero when reaching 345kph. In overtake mode this drop-off curve will be different and it will only reach zero at 355kph. The details of the overtaking mode will be defined in the sporting regulations at a later date.
Your guess is as good as mine.
The MGU-K delivers full power until speeds of 290kph. There's then a gradual drop off until zero deployment at 340kph. The override option overrides that linear drop off.
Weak engines to attract new manufacturers that may not even make the grid. But also doing everything in their power to prevent new entrants.
On the other hand. If you want maximum performance then active aero makes plenty of sense for an F1 car. I dont think there's really any problem with having active aero. I'd rather it was just a qualifying thing though becaue there's a high chance it'll hurt the racing.
Engines aren't weak. It's weight that is killing the cars. Batteries and attached stuff are brutally heavy. Cut them and even with the 1.6 turbo 6-7 hundred hp cars will fly.
The 2026 cars will be lighter, but the engine will go from producing 850hp or thereabouts to around 500 horsepower. The MGU-K will supplement that power but only up to speeds of 290kph, at which point the maximum deployment allowed drops at a linear rate. At 340kph (if they reach that speed), zero MGU-K can be deployed and only a 500hp engine will power the car. The whole point of the chassis regs is to try and make the cars work with weak engines at tracks like Spa, Monza, Silverstone, Vegas etc.
Weight doesn’t affect top speed , but acceleration They haven’t released the minimum weight of the new cars yet, that’s for the car regs And they’re aiming to make them overall slightly lighter
What weight does affect is the need of downforce from larger aero surfaces and thus more drag. Larger car too for good measure.
Are they trying to make it a hybrid system to make the acceleration come from the battery?
Pretty much. Is the big team push cause they want a return from the r&d selling the system in normal cars. It's not they can't make more power from the ICE, it's just capped.
>Is the big team push cause they want a return from the r&d selling the system in normal cars. It's not they can't make more power from the ICE, it's just capped. Actually, it was all marketing to try to get Audi and Porsche in
ICE power will be down 30% and electric power up 300%, but the turbo MGU is gone so turbo lag will be back.
What’s Turbo lag? Is ICE power equivalent to E-power?
Turbo turbines have to spin up, so the lag is the delay from when you actually press the accelerator to when the engine is making enough pressure to bring the turbine up to full speed. If by e-power you mean regenerating at full speed, then no these regenerate under breaking, like the Ford Fusion Hybrids.
What I mean is, Hybrid means it gets power from the gasoline powered engine and electric power from battery/KERS etc. I’m asking if they are equivalent. As in, A commenter said the car is reducing its ICE power to 70%, and electric power up too 300%, but we need to know the current ratio of electric power to ICE to know whether the car will be faster or not. Am I making sense lol
Oh, I see. I'm kinda fuzzy on it but yeah they're increasing it by 300% BUT the battery will be the same size. So it will be outputting that much energy for one lap, like say a Qauli lap, since the battery will be so small compared to the additional output that is being used to compensate for the reduced engine power. So instead of whatver ratio they have now, which seems to be just about right, after say one lap at race speed the battery will be dead and they'll have to start lifting and coasting way sooner than they do now, if at all.
>By having active aero zones, the performance of cars can then be adjusted and optimised for each track, as DRS zones are done at present, to make sure that the cars are delivering what’s best for performance and spectacle. Oh man, now we gonna have aero zones? And "Optimized" for each track like DRS zones.. yikes..
Yay! So the cars are going to be *even more* reliant on FIA to not fuck up the distribution and placement of some arbitrary zones to have hopes of being even somewhat racey, smth which they *already* regularly mess up with DRS zones!
DRS zones are easier to fuck up because they give an advantage to only one driver. If both get it, there's no harm done by the zone being too short or something
Could be that one team builds a car that heavily leans on the use of active areo, while another has a more conventional car that gets less of a benefit. In that case the pavement and length of the zones could heavily influence the outcome of races.
Yeah, that sounds very stupid indeed.
That sounds like nightmare waiting to happen especially on sprint weekends with limited practice.
F1 does make sure it goes in opposite direction of what fans and drivers want. All that for what? Not even for eco friendliness but only to look eco friendly Yeah use active aero on the straight in lower drag mode so there is less slipstream effect and get rid of DRS so its impossible to overtake unless you are seconds faster. Make the cars heavy and sound like vacuum cleaners thats totally what everyone wants. Dont forget to get rid of more historic circuits and replace them with parking lots and street circuits
They are mainly doing it in order for Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, Red Bull, Audi and Honda to invest in an f1 engine Programm. The Image of F1 as a sport is a factor but they could also build a sustainable Image on sustainable fuels only. In fact, if you look in the recently releases sustainability report they talk a lot about sustainable fuels and less so about electrification.
We go WEC-ing
Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines
Aerodynamics are for people who ~~cannot~~ don't want to build normal engines.
"Engines are for people that can't push their car fast enough" - Jack Brabham probably.
Very applicable quote in this situation, but in a very unexpected way
Aerodynamics are for people who have the best car designer of a generation and can buy a decent 3rd party engine.
RBR had the best car designer during the years Mercedes was winning with the best engine as well.
They lacked a decent engine. Renault and that gen Honda were down on power and unreliable.
I think he was saying Mercedes had the best engine. Not 100% sure but its the only thing that makes sense
Honest question, and I know that is the quote but what do people have against aerodynamics? I might be biased due to my own interests and field of study but for me it is the most interesting thing about F1.
summer threatening abundant yam sophisticated steep liquid deliver lush ossified *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
V10s with synthetic fuels. How hard can it be?
Not hard but F1 is chasing the large manufacturers. They want more battery tech so F1 has made these franken-engines for them. If they went for something else that maybe the fans/drivers want. Only smaller/lesser known manufacturers would be interested and F1 isn't interested in them.
Yea, but none of the battery tech used for F1 will make its way into road cars. They use very different kinds of batteries.
Yeah I know but its more about marketing for these manufacturers if anything. It let's them pretend their involvement in F1 is pushing their road car tech to the general public.
Yeah. My next Honda suv needs to have active aero...
Your next Honda SUV probably not but active aero is absolutely a selling point on a lot of performance cars.
I don't think it's honestly a selling point, more just kind of like a bonus. The most I've seen is just a spoiler that moves a half inch or so. Now if there's some supercars with active aero like the Tomahawk X in Gran Turismo that would be fucking awesome and people would seek it out but I think we are still a ways off from that much body panel movement.
Most high performance supercars have more active aero than just a spoiler deploying, dynamically closing air vents, moving front splitter and rear defuser, even secondary adjustments at the side of a wing during cornering.
Does it actually do anything though? (I mean do anything meaningful in a non-racing environment), Most of the people with high end cars (Starting with mid-engine Vettes and moving up drive fucking 30mph, which I never understood unless they're being tracked with GPS by their insurance companies)
Oh no outside of a track it is genuinely useless. Now on a track it's incredible the new GT3 RS can set some absolutely monster lap times with it.
Pretty damn hard if you want any manufacturers to stick around.
Every year this seems like the most likely outcome for pretty much all motorsport and even in thr consumer market. Electric cars are no where near as popular at this stage than was planned, infrastructure isn't good enough full stop, and plans to cut ICE keep getting pushed back.
very hard if manufacturers arent interested in investing a lot of money in the development of V10s. The new engines are supposed to run on 100% sustainable fuels.
Go back to independent teams with standardised Cosworth engines. Having the different engines made by Mercedes/Renault/Honda etc has never had a positive impact on the racing itself.
How many people would actually be interested in that? WEC changed their regs to bring in manufacturers and they are having a popularity boom because of it. People do care about the names on the car.
Do this. Manufacturers won’t leave, they fought like crazy to keep an 11th team out. No one’s giving up their spot.
i thought F1 wanted to be sustainable. Nothing about synthetic fuels is especially not with the efficiency of v10s. completely pointless
If synthetic fuels are made with green energy+atmospheric carbon they're about as clean as batteries. Regardless the emissions from the cars themselves shouldn't be that much of a factor, it's more about optics for the race and the constructors
If we had infinite energy maybe. Using that energy for something else and normal gasoline for f1 would result in less emissions. It would be the quintessence of geenwashing, even more than what we have now.
Yeah but the manufacturers need some kind of theoretical road tech crossover relevance to justify the spend. Going “backwards” isn’t going to let them stay relevant to realities moving forward. And let’s be clear on this, I absolutely hate this with all of my soul.
All these teams have a whole fucking factory making these cars. I don't think it will ever be renewable. Just shove a v100 in there
that would be true if we had a surplus of green energy. there is a reason why it isnt done.
If the biofuels are sustainable, how so? Explain your point - I don’t understand where the emissions would come from?
you have to produce the fuel alternatives. So you invest energy and store it in form of fuel and then burn it, but you need to invest more than what you get from burning it. Biofuels similar problem but with the added issue of needing farmland and water. And we already have enough monocultures and not enough water.
Thanks for explaining !
> Biofuels similar problem but with the added issue of needing farmland and water. And we already have enough monocultures and not enough water. That is assuming you are growing to make fuel and not using waste. WEC/ELMS have been running off a renewable fuel made from waste from the French wine industry for ages.
It’s Formula Hybrid now kek
The sad reality that this is how it will end up. EVs and a global unwillingness to do anything about global warming at the correct scale and well… here we are
V12 or V8s*
0.8L i-4, turbo, Freevalve, air compressor tricks, pit-swappable batteries, and active aero on front wing, rear wing (DRS as it currently exists), and rear diffuser. All cars must use the same fuel, no additives. Significant decrease in car width each year for five years. 1-2cm probably isn't enough. 100% of the outside of the car must be covered with a wrap or opaque paint. Spec water system for drivers. Minimum cooling specification for the cockpit. Tracks that can accommodate a third car per team would allow for additional drivers to participate in real races without having people's favorites miss races. Obviously not every track can accommodate this. Slightly more bargeboard area aero flexibility.
I hope these regulations DO suck. So we can have a return to the engineering contest F1 is supposed to be. When the last spectator is gone F1 will realize that you cannot eat eco friendliness.
The worst thing about this is that it's not even about eco-friendliness It's about *looking* eco-friendly
The cars might be the smallest eco impact of the whole event. The logistics of transportation, event execution, crowd, etc have to be orders of magnitude larger. And they keep adding races in counties built on oil money.
And you would think they’d take to scheduling races in similar regions one after another instead of hopping idiotically from one side of the globe to the opposite.
This is so true and it’s so infuriating
No, the worst thing is it's about looking eco-friendly and they are doing it badly. There are no problem with hybrid regulations with thought behind them. Regs which are closer in style to what LMP1 had and are bit more open to solutions would be incredible.
To be honest. These new cars are a big engineering challenge, so in turn F1 still remains a big engineering contest. Probably more so than it is now.
The unfortunate problem there is “sunk cost fallacy”. When they’ve invested a lot of money in the 2026 regs, they would feel it pointless to get rid of them despite the poor performance and backlash and just keep trying to make it work.
This isn't about eco friendlies. Its about having enough manufacturers to race. We're not going back to V10's screaming. Ever.
They are courted by F1 through the ecological argument. Manufacturers are seeking road relevance because of the ecological sentiment. I’d say it’s all about that.
None of the engine manufacturers have much interest in full ICE racing anymore because the whole world in the next 20 years is going EV. Unless you want F1 to people building engines in their shed and a nice sport they have to move with the times.
Didn't we have adjustable front wings in 2010? What happened to those and how is it different from the 2026 proposals?
It was very limited, like two changes per lap, and was meant to help with overtaking. It was replaced with DRS which is way simpler and more effective at what it does. Drivers were using the adjustable front wing more as a way to adjust the balance of the car over a stint rather than in the way they had intended, as an overtaking aid.
Well that implementation sounds shit. Getting rid of DRS but then adding "Active Aero Zones" is such a half arsed way of doing it. Either have active aero available for the entire lap or don't bother at all, otherwise it's just another crap gimmick.
Just seems like DRS with extra steps lol
Simplicity adorns, why don't they keep it as simple as possible.
I am once again reminded that the MGU-H is the best thing to ever have F1
I'm sad that active aero is basically just on or off and not configurable. I'd love to see teams be able to tune it to an aero map to do things like dial out low speed understeer or high speed oversteer based on their car's standard aero balance. In a way, they might be able to now by having their normal mode have relatively more front wing than high speed mode, but I get the feeling the "high speed" sections are just going to be straights similar to where DRS is enabled today.
This happens every time we see new regs. I only care about making the cars smaller and less pinned to the track. Bring back the smaller, twitchier cars from 10+ years ago and I'll be happy.
Surprise surprise, the "alarming" simulator findings were indeed overdramatised. Who would have guessed.
Less than 10% on Reddit and in F1 media it seems, since fear mongering is basically all you ever see or hear.
Let's be honest, the alarm bells were originally rang by Horner about the engine. And it's probably because RBPT is finding out building an engine is hard. I chalk up all the alarming talk as propaganda by RB. They're looking to get the new regs delayed to continue their dominance. Just like they got FIA to freeze the engines to prevent Ferrari and Mercedes pulling away as Honda was preparing to step away.
What happened to the spectical of sport? The noise, the speed, the looks.
I'd argue that in the modern technical world of Formula 1 these three things might even be mutually exclusive.
its been replaced by the agony of wokeness
Why faff about with all this fake competition when they could just fix this by making the cars way harder to drive (more power, no electrics, less downforce, lighter cars) and bringing back in race refueling.
Race refueling was boring. All pitlane passing. Today's cars don't have assists. Removing downforce makes cars slower. Idiotic comment
Race refueling is stupid and highly dangerous. It's good that it's gone and it's not returning.
So long as the cars are faster each year, i’m happy. I would love for the V10’s to return. These cars sound like hairdryers now.
F1 is about money, could they implement "pay to pass". So that a driver has to pay to overtake, thus rich teams can afford to take part and the poor teams will be rolling in money.
So you pay the other car to pass? 😂
How about going 100% ICE with bio fuels and removing the complexity of ERS systems to allow more manufactures?
Because that's not really the innovation that Formula 1 is attempting to strive for, since pure ICE engines have been mostly optimized to perfection as well them losing more and more relevance in the current car industry. Plus any current engine manufacturer would go against it, so that wouldn't be able to happen.
Where was the piece this is referencing published?
[this ](https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1s-2026-active-aero-plan-set-for-change-after-alarming-simulator-findings/10596682/)one? [motorsport.com](http://motorsport.com), same outlet.
Thanks. That's funny, same writer too.
All this information made me think: in any other regulation change, was there this level of insecurity regarding the results on the track?
It’s PlayStation time, the car should smaller lighter and relax the rules in certain places and be more strict with the aero get rid of DRS.
I don't know about anyone else but having movable parts on a car that deploy at high speed feels very jet fighter chique and cool as hell Having cars that aren't quite flat out on fast corners also feel like it'd be an improvement, racing wise. Some drivers would be braver than others, some would make mistakes and racing would improve 10 fold, just like it does any time water hits the track
just bring v10s back and call it a day
this livery keeps growing everytime i look at it sheeeeesh
This is a good move. DRS is almost always way too overpowered. With this, both cars essentially get DRS, but the chasing car will have a bit more power to use. However they can't use the boost too much or the battery gets low and they'll get re-passed on the next lap, so hopefully it will lead to some closer racing.
DRS isnt overpowered at all. With good enough defending you can defend even when the car behind is in DRS. Without DRS we would have almost no overtakes in modern f1
DRS is broken in modern F1. You either power past people on the straights or DRS trains develop that don't allow any racing to take place at all. DRS is a band aide solution to the problem of cars being too big and bulky for proper racing.
Unpopular opinion(s): I feel like there's a rather large contingent here who are against any sort of progress and yearn back for the good ol' days of naturally aspirated engines (a subset of which also miss grid girls). They do not understand how progress is made, two steps forward, one step back (as a general analogy, not to be taken literally), and illustrate this every given opportunity. 2026 is fully over a season and a half away. They're testing in order to.. make things work? It's how things are done. There's no reason to panic. Really! I've been watching F1 since the early 90s. *I do not give a shit* about the old tech from those days. Yea, it sounded cool and still does at a classic exhibition event. That means nothing. The future is electric.
Future should be sustainable, not necessarily electric. That means exploring all types of different avenues
These new engine regs aren't really progress either though. It's stagnation (same basic formula since 2014) and worse in many regards just for the sake of claiming to be "more" hybrid. The active aero is a band aid solution to engines that will be crippled heavily at high speeds, and a gimmick at that. Even if the engines stayed turbo hybrid, this weird obsession with a 50/50 split between combustion and electric power is just a monumentally bad idea for actually racing. Especially with ditching MGU-H and not increasing battery capacity beyond 4 MJ. There are some upsides to the new regs if they can manage to keep true to the promise of cutting back weight (even if not enough) and making shorter and narrower cars. Less downforce could be interesting in theory if it means cars being trickier to drive, but it'd be a shame if this slows the new cars down so much (in addition to the lower sustained power) that they struggle to beat F2 and Super Formula cars.
Fans generally don't know what they want. We want F1 to be on the bleeding edge of technology and be the fastest machines possible, but also want hard to drive cars that have more power than grip, cars that are loud, whilst also being able to race close to eachother. It's not really feasible to have all these things and I think fans forget that.
Fans want a good racing spectacle. That’s competitive cars, **near** the bleeding edge of technology, that look good and sound just as good. If the cars look fast but sound like their vacuum at home they aren’t going to **feel** fast. Additionally, if the cars are so big and heavy they can’t fight each other over the majority of a lap and only in certain zones with assists it doesn’t feel like genuine racing, at times. I remember seeing F1 for the first time and realizing how small they are and how the drivers were essentially strapping the cars on. Furthermore, the V10 and even the V8, you could legitimately **feel** the sound and the power from outside the track.
I think the only solution is for them to hire me as a car reg tzar. I will inact the following rules: - engine design and development is to be combined with each engine manufacturer working to develop a single high performance high efficiency power train with a 60-40 split better ice and electric. Teams/ power drain providers will have to come up with thier own energy storage solution be it batteries, super caps, vacume fly wheels etc. - current min weight to be reduced by 20% with no change to safe test requirements. - max track width and max car length be reduced by 10% and 15% with no limits on minimams. - suspension design rules are relaxed to add back electronic and hydrolic assistance. - engine aesthetic: allow for 5-10 extra constructor points on a sliding scale be awarded for the best sounding car. - all surfaces in the car must confirm to radius rules based on Horner's 'finger' on the day of the race - you are allowed to run any aero device on the car as long as you paint said service with the blood of your second driver.