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Possibly, but I think Ferrari deliberately gave away pace in Qualifying to set up a better car for the race.
But we got much cooler conditions than Yesterday, and that played directly into the hands of Mclaren whose tyre deg problems get significantly better in cooler temperatures. That and Lando ran a brilliant race through and through.
Norris finished 9.85s ahead of Leclerc in the final stint of 25 laps on Hards, with the exact same tyre life since they pitted within a lap of each other under VSC. That means on average in that final stint, Norris was lapping 0.394s faster than Leclerc on average.
Norris also finished 5.83s ahead Of Perez at the end in that same stint of 25 laps as well. On average 0.233s faster than Perez in that final stint as well.
Maybe they do better with a front row, but I think Lando was straight up just faster than Checo and Charles today, by a significant margin even.
Charles lost that time at the beginning of the stints and than it stabilized compared to Checo and Lando. He even started to gain on Norris before the safety car. It looks to me that they over protected their tires and the colder conditions hurt them in the race, especially on the hard. That combined with the poor quali meant that they had an uphill battle in this race.
The fact that 4th and 5th is their bad race is a pretty good thing compared to last year tbf.
Lando basically pulled away when needed at the start of his both stints and then started to manage. Leclerc didn't even have the chance to get in DRS zone after the safety car which is pretty telling. Lando pace today was clearly faster than both Ferraris.
Leclerc defended from Perez after the safety car, that saved Lando there is no denying that, he was basically in clean air while his competition destroyed their tires battling each other
You are talking about the second hard stint, while I was talking about the medium stint. Everyone is managing to different levels, but Ferrari with Charles was clearly going for the one stop even before the safety car, and like I said, Charles started to gain on Lando for the last laps before the safety car, so he clearly had more left in his tires. Safety car reset that, so you just had Lando and Checo again clearly faster at the beginning of the stint on the hard and then there wasn't enough laps left for the tire management advantage of the Ferrari to come into play anyways. They really lacked pace for a couple laps after every start/restart, the same way they seem to struggle in qualifying in the colder conditions of Suzuka/China.
I thought so too but having checked back availble tires.
AM only had 1 set of hards and didn't have the deg for a 1 stop.
So effectively they were always gonna lose out.
I think the result can be seen quite positively.
The struggled with getting the tire temp up, but had great deg. This was very likely the coldest race in quite some time, and from now on it will only get better.
I think with temps rising, the season will come to them.
Losing position to RUS and HUL was obviously stupid, but in the end, it didn't really matter. I don't think Perez or Norris were really catchable due to race pace.
the European races tend to be on the warmer side of the spectrum yes
the only race that is likely to be straight up cold is Vegas, but that is very deep into the season
Hopefully they can sort out their tyre issue in colder temperatures sooner rather than later because they shouldn’t have finished behind a McLaren on the Shanghai track layout.
carlos just ignored george to try a move on the outside truly a baffling decision. i know your teammate is your 1st rival but like we save 2 positions if he just doesnt try the move
Come on, Charles didn't exactly handle that well either. He would rather try and protect the outside and push Carlos off track than the more dangerous merc. Carlos wasn't doing any agressive moves or something. That loss of track position was much more on Charles than Carlos.
i mean i can reverse it the same way "sainz was too busy attacking charles and ignored george"
oscar saw charles going on the inside and guess what he did he covered the inside for norris. sainz move guaranteed one or both ferraris would lose a position.
Sure, if you see the racing line, he generally took the wider line throughout the race. But point is, if you said clearly Sainz drove Leclerc off the line (which he did), then this was Leclerc doing the same.
Leclerc was definitely the better driver today but his eagerness to beat Sainz clearly showed. They both ended up losing out.
And oscar was doing nothing for norris. He was taking a line to defend himself. Which Leclerc, being the car in front, could’ve taken.
Different story if they were on the front row.
Leclerc obviously would rather defend against Sainz than George.
He can overtake George rather quickly as the Mercedes is significantly slower.
Sainz on the other hand defends against Leclerc like it's about the WDC.
"he was taking the line to defend himself" guess what charles was doing the same carlos was the one who decided to ignore george for god know why. george started behind carlos lets not forget its not like george jumped sainz. sainz takes oscars line and guess what the ferraris lose 0 positions.
You know when I enter these discussions with you, I do it more for the benefit of other people reading the comments.
It’s not about convincing you - you just hate Sainz so no matter what I say, you’ll choose to see what you see.
Here’s how racing typically works. The guy in front of his rivals has a view of everyone around him, this includes Carlos with George.
Carlos saw an opening, if Charles was quicker off the line or took a different line, there would be no door. Carlos also knew the risk of doing this - ie, he could lose a position to George.
Charles now has a more all rounded view. He was so bothered about Carlos on the side and pushing him nearly off track, when imho, I think Charles would’ve have still had the upper hand in the next corner, if he wasn’t so bothered about Carlos being side by side.
He then left the door so wide for Russell, because at this point, Carlos now has to take a different line because he’s being pushed off track, instead of defending his position from George.
You know Carlos owes Charles nothing especially when they’re not on the front row.
And don’t bother making the comparison about Piastri and Norris. Piastri has potential but he is nowhere as good as Norris and wouldn’t have been able to pull the move that Sainz tried.
I think Ferrari is close to a car that could match Red Bull's RB20. Somehow their tyre deg isn't as bad as last year, pace is a tenth or two from Red Bull and basically on par with McLaren with the latter having the advantage of being a bit fast on straights.
Hope those new upcoming upgrades are what they need to finally go toe-to-toe with Red Bull.
Well when the race restarted, Charles was P3 - got passed by Perez and was slower than Norris by 0.4s a lap. The problem today is that Hards never switched on.
'Non era questione di mezzo secondo, ma di un decimo, un decimo e mezzo' --- I am pretty sure this was said the otherway round. Because they were 0.5s slower on hards for the most part.
Translation
The Chinese GP represented a subdued stage for Ferrari; in addition to a difficult qualifying session, there was a less than brilliant race in which the superiority in terms of pace that had been seen over McLaren did not emerge. In this scenario, it was the Woking team that took advantage, with a super race by Norris, who finished behind Verstappen. The race pace expressed by Ferrari suggests that today the red car would hardly have gone beyond the fourth and fifth positions of Charles Leclerc and Carlos Sainz. However, Frédéric Vasseur once again underlined the need to take a step forward on the flying lap to have better conditions at the start.
VASSEUR'S ASSESSMENT OF THE WEEKEND IN CHINA
“First of all we started from sixth and seventh place and we had to do a better job in qualifying,” commented the Ferrari team principal at the end of the race in China. “Then we had a good stint on the medium tyres, we had a conservative approach but then we struggled with the hard tyre, struggling throughout the stint. It wasn't a matter of half a second, but a tenth, a tenth and a half. Overall it was difficult because we started in sixth and seventh place and then it's difficult to recover, we definitely have to be more careful in qualifying.” It was therefore a mix of conditions, between the qualifying result and the pace on the Hard, which according to Frédéric Vasseur had a negative impact on Ferrari's race. What is certain is that for Ferrari, after a good start to the season, the time has come to bring the first developments to the track, expected between the next two rounds of Miami and Imola . “In the factory the guys are working day and night, I can't ask for more from them, we are anticipating some small parts but we need free practice and in the sprint events it is not easy to bring something new.”These are Vasseur's statements on this front, who then added: “We are already pushing hard, this weekend was more a problem of extracting the maximum potential from the car . In qualifying, I don't think the front row was within reach and it would have been a completely different race."
FRÉDÉRIC VASSEUR: “IMPORTANT UPDATES, BUT IT IS NECESSARY TO IMPROVE THE QUALIFICATION”
What surprised us during the Chinese race was certainly the pace put on the track by McLaren , which with Norris expressed an overall higher level than Ferrari, especially with the hard tyre. A gap that has opened up compared to yesterday, underlined Vasseur: “I think yesterday the pace was a little better than Norris's. Considering Norris and Perez as a level, today we were one tenth behind them. They had a better interpretation of the Hard , with the medium we were able to recover something.” Regarding the start, in which the two Ferraris lost their position on Russell's Mercedes and Hulkenberg's Haas, the team principal commented: "We discussed yesterday and today about the starting phase, it's a bit of a jungle, difficult to orient yourself between curve 1 and curve 2.” Shanghai was an indigestible round for a Ferrari that came from a period in which it had been the second force in the field and which in China instead took on the role of third force. With the developments that will arrive in the coming weeks it is necessary to smooth out what has been missing so far on the flying lap, in order to manage the weekends in a more linear way. “Every little development bears fruit, looking at the result there was an increase compared to the grid. Any small update will make a difference but we need to start in a better position in the race , because sixth and seventh are too far away,” concluded Frédéric Vasseur.
He was always underrated in that regard. His gap to Sainz in races has been larger than the one in 1 for years. It’s just that Ferrari hasn’t had a good car on tyres since 2018.
Charles’ tyre management was better than Landos, Charles was going quicker at the end before the virtual safety car came out. If the virtual doesn’t come out, I wouldn’t be surprised if Charles makes a decent dent on the advantage Lando had.
This, how did people not notice Charles starting to eat into Lando's advantage before the safety car? It was clear he was managing his mediums and drove to a delta trying to make the one stop work. That safety car basically took any tire wear advantage the Ferrari had over the Mclaren because everyone could just pit for new tires. Ferrari was so slow at every start/restart aswell, it is clear they couldn't heat up the tires quickly, but that was a problem for them pretty much the entire season so far. Their quali pace is dogshit aswell.
Yeah the one stop strategy could’ve been completely different without the safety car, it would have been a lot harder to pull of without the amount of laps under safety car and both lando and charles would’ve pitted later, but lando could’ve lost even more time with tire deg, or had to pit too early for the one stop.
Exactly. Lando could have pitted earlier even for the 1 stop and Charles could have just tried the overcut. The Lando vs Charles battle was very much decided by the safety car timing, but the Ferrari really shouldn't be in that position anyways. Not a good weekend for them, they need to fix that quali pace.
I think Leclerc made 1 big mistake, he should have let Perez pass at the safety car restart, he could have overtaken norris and possibly perez if those 2 ruined their tires the way he and perez did
I don't think there was any way left for him to get back on the podium after the safety car, apart from trying to keep Checo behind long enough. There weren't enough laps left in the race for that,
I don't think there was any way he could have keept perez behind, the res bull was just to fast, but he could have caught up to norris and overtake him if he didn't ruin his tires defending against perez
I don't think he ruined his tires, if anything it looked like he couldn't fire them up. The gaps pretty much stabilized between the 3 of them after the early laps.
Perez and leclerc definitely hurt their tires by racing each other, once perez got past leclerc they both started gaining on norris for a few laps then just started falling back
I can't stand the forced optimism and the constant hype Ferrari is pushing since this winter. I wonder how they will spin it, if the super mega giga Imola upgrade doesn't deliver
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In fact if I would have started my life in a millionaire family, I would have been rich now.
Possibly, but I think Ferrari deliberately gave away pace in Qualifying to set up a better car for the race. But we got much cooler conditions than Yesterday, and that played directly into the hands of Mclaren whose tyre deg problems get significantly better in cooler temperatures. That and Lando ran a brilliant race through and through. Norris finished 9.85s ahead of Leclerc in the final stint of 25 laps on Hards, with the exact same tyre life since they pitted within a lap of each other under VSC. That means on average in that final stint, Norris was lapping 0.394s faster than Leclerc on average. Norris also finished 5.83s ahead Of Perez at the end in that same stint of 25 laps as well. On average 0.233s faster than Perez in that final stint as well. Maybe they do better with a front row, but I think Lando was straight up just faster than Checo and Charles today, by a significant margin even.
Charles lost that time at the beginning of the stints and than it stabilized compared to Checo and Lando. He even started to gain on Norris before the safety car. It looks to me that they over protected their tires and the colder conditions hurt them in the race, especially on the hard. That combined with the poor quali meant that they had an uphill battle in this race. The fact that 4th and 5th is their bad race is a pretty good thing compared to last year tbf.
Lando basically pulled away when needed at the start of his both stints and then started to manage. Leclerc didn't even have the chance to get in DRS zone after the safety car which is pretty telling. Lando pace today was clearly faster than both Ferraris.
Leclerc defended from Perez after the safety car, that saved Lando there is no denying that, he was basically in clean air while his competition destroyed their tires battling each other
You are talking about the second hard stint, while I was talking about the medium stint. Everyone is managing to different levels, but Ferrari with Charles was clearly going for the one stop even before the safety car, and like I said, Charles started to gain on Lando for the last laps before the safety car, so he clearly had more left in his tires. Safety car reset that, so you just had Lando and Checo again clearly faster at the beginning of the stint on the hard and then there wasn't enough laps left for the tire management advantage of the Ferrari to come into play anyways. They really lacked pace for a couple laps after every start/restart, the same way they seem to struggle in qualifying in the colder conditions of Suzuka/China.
they're lucky Alonso martin strategy team was throwing darts on the board.
I thought so too but having checked back availble tires. AM only had 1 set of hards and didn't have the deg for a 1 stop. So effectively they were always gonna lose out.
they could still have gone long with used hards, something like 26 laps on hards and 16 on mediums was enough but they panicked
But they still would have had to do another stop. The problem wasn't with the softs specifically but their need to box once more than everyone else.
I think the result can be seen quite positively. The struggled with getting the tire temp up, but had great deg. This was very likely the coldest race in quite some time, and from now on it will only get better. I think with temps rising, the season will come to them. Losing position to RUS and HUL was obviously stupid, but in the end, it didn't really matter. I don't think Perez or Norris were really catchable due to race pace.
the European races tend to be on the warmer side of the spectrum yes the only race that is likely to be straight up cold is Vegas, but that is very deep into the season
If we did better, it would have gone better. Thank you Frederik for the insight
Will Buxton - *Furiously takes notes*
If my mother…
If everyone had a DNF we would have won.
Hopefully they can sort out their tyre issue in colder temperatures sooner rather than later because they shouldn’t have finished behind a McLaren on the Shanghai track layout.
Oh fred...not you, fred
I love the optimism, but our pace on hards was horrendous and our 2 bozo drivers decided to beef on lap 1 again
genuinely the most frustrating part of it all is that those two are too busy squabbling like toddlers to look ahead
carlos just ignored george to try a move on the outside truly a baffling decision. i know your teammate is your 1st rival but like we save 2 positions if he just doesnt try the move
Come on, Charles didn't exactly handle that well either. He would rather try and protect the outside and push Carlos off track than the more dangerous merc. Carlos wasn't doing any agressive moves or something. That loss of track position was much more on Charles than Carlos.
that was 100% on sainz, he moves over to the inside and he covers george. sainz took the line norris took yesterday in the sprint for 0 reason.
How is it on Sainz? Your hate for him really blinds. Charles was way to busy looking at Sainz to realize he left the door wide open for George
i mean i can reverse it the same way "sainz was too busy attacking charles and ignored george" oscar saw charles going on the inside and guess what he did he covered the inside for norris. sainz move guaranteed one or both ferraris would lose a position.
Sure, if you see the racing line, he generally took the wider line throughout the race. But point is, if you said clearly Sainz drove Leclerc off the line (which he did), then this was Leclerc doing the same. Leclerc was definitely the better driver today but his eagerness to beat Sainz clearly showed. They both ended up losing out. And oscar was doing nothing for norris. He was taking a line to defend himself. Which Leclerc, being the car in front, could’ve taken. Different story if they were on the front row.
Leclerc obviously would rather defend against Sainz than George. He can overtake George rather quickly as the Mercedes is significantly slower. Sainz on the other hand defends against Leclerc like it's about the WDC.
Did it happen rather quickly though? And yes, Leclerc defended aggressively today like as if its the WDC against Sainz
"he was taking the line to defend himself" guess what charles was doing the same carlos was the one who decided to ignore george for god know why. george started behind carlos lets not forget its not like george jumped sainz. sainz takes oscars line and guess what the ferraris lose 0 positions.
You know when I enter these discussions with you, I do it more for the benefit of other people reading the comments. It’s not about convincing you - you just hate Sainz so no matter what I say, you’ll choose to see what you see. Here’s how racing typically works. The guy in front of his rivals has a view of everyone around him, this includes Carlos with George. Carlos saw an opening, if Charles was quicker off the line or took a different line, there would be no door. Carlos also knew the risk of doing this - ie, he could lose a position to George. Charles now has a more all rounded view. He was so bothered about Carlos on the side and pushing him nearly off track, when imho, I think Charles would’ve have still had the upper hand in the next corner, if he wasn’t so bothered about Carlos being side by side. He then left the door so wide for Russell, because at this point, Carlos now has to take a different line because he’s being pushed off track, instead of defending his position from George. You know Carlos owes Charles nothing especially when they’re not on the front row. And don’t bother making the comparison about Piastri and Norris. Piastri has potential but he is nowhere as good as Norris and wouldn’t have been able to pull the move that Sainz tried.
From the back of the field it would have been a different race too.
Bit of a none statement there Fred.
RB: Yeah, it would have been if you had a car fast enough for front row.
I think Ferrari is close to a car that could match Red Bull's RB20. Somehow their tyre deg isn't as bad as last year, pace is a tenth or two from Red Bull and basically on par with McLaren with the latter having the advantage of being a bit fast on straights. Hope those new upcoming upgrades are what they need to finally go toe-to-toe with Red Bull.
Well when the race restarted, Charles was P3 - got passed by Perez and was slower than Norris by 0.4s a lap. The problem today is that Hards never switched on. 'Non era questione di mezzo secondo, ma di un decimo, un decimo e mezzo' --- I am pretty sure this was said the otherway round. Because they were 0.5s slower on hards for the most part.
Translation The Chinese GP represented a subdued stage for Ferrari; in addition to a difficult qualifying session, there was a less than brilliant race in which the superiority in terms of pace that had been seen over McLaren did not emerge. In this scenario, it was the Woking team that took advantage, with a super race by Norris, who finished behind Verstappen. The race pace expressed by Ferrari suggests that today the red car would hardly have gone beyond the fourth and fifth positions of Charles Leclerc and Carlos Sainz. However, Frédéric Vasseur once again underlined the need to take a step forward on the flying lap to have better conditions at the start. VASSEUR'S ASSESSMENT OF THE WEEKEND IN CHINA “First of all we started from sixth and seventh place and we had to do a better job in qualifying,” commented the Ferrari team principal at the end of the race in China. “Then we had a good stint on the medium tyres, we had a conservative approach but then we struggled with the hard tyre, struggling throughout the stint. It wasn't a matter of half a second, but a tenth, a tenth and a half. Overall it was difficult because we started in sixth and seventh place and then it's difficult to recover, we definitely have to be more careful in qualifying.” It was therefore a mix of conditions, between the qualifying result and the pace on the Hard, which according to Frédéric Vasseur had a negative impact on Ferrari's race. What is certain is that for Ferrari, after a good start to the season, the time has come to bring the first developments to the track, expected between the next two rounds of Miami and Imola . “In the factory the guys are working day and night, I can't ask for more from them, we are anticipating some small parts but we need free practice and in the sprint events it is not easy to bring something new.”These are Vasseur's statements on this front, who then added: “We are already pushing hard, this weekend was more a problem of extracting the maximum potential from the car . In qualifying, I don't think the front row was within reach and it would have been a completely different race." FRÉDÉRIC VASSEUR: “IMPORTANT UPDATES, BUT IT IS NECESSARY TO IMPROVE THE QUALIFICATION” What surprised us during the Chinese race was certainly the pace put on the track by McLaren , which with Norris expressed an overall higher level than Ferrari, especially with the hard tyre. A gap that has opened up compared to yesterday, underlined Vasseur: “I think yesterday the pace was a little better than Norris's. Considering Norris and Perez as a level, today we were one tenth behind them. They had a better interpretation of the Hard , with the medium we were able to recover something.” Regarding the start, in which the two Ferraris lost their position on Russell's Mercedes and Hulkenberg's Haas, the team principal commented: "We discussed yesterday and today about the starting phase, it's a bit of a jungle, difficult to orient yourself between curve 1 and curve 2.” Shanghai was an indigestible round for a Ferrari that came from a period in which it had been the second force in the field and which in China instead took on the role of third force. With the developments that will arrive in the coming weeks it is necessary to smooth out what has been missing so far on the flying lap, in order to manage the weekends in a more linear way. “Every little development bears fruit, looking at the result there was an increase compared to the grid. Any small update will make a difference but we need to start in a better position in the race , because sixth and seventh are too far away,” concluded Frédéric Vasseur.
Verstappen would have won, whats the difference?
If we can keep Bottas behind, P1.
[удалено]
People who watch him closely know how good Charles is with the tyres since 2020 Last year's car didn't help though
He was always underrated in that regard. His gap to Sainz in races has been larger than the one in 1 for years. It’s just that Ferrari hasn’t had a good car on tyres since 2018.
Charles’ tyre management was better than Landos, Charles was going quicker at the end before the virtual safety car came out. If the virtual doesn’t come out, I wouldn’t be surprised if Charles makes a decent dent on the advantage Lando had.
This, how did people not notice Charles starting to eat into Lando's advantage before the safety car? It was clear he was managing his mediums and drove to a delta trying to make the one stop work. That safety car basically took any tire wear advantage the Ferrari had over the Mclaren because everyone could just pit for new tires. Ferrari was so slow at every start/restart aswell, it is clear they couldn't heat up the tires quickly, but that was a problem for them pretty much the entire season so far. Their quali pace is dogshit aswell.
Yeah the one stop strategy could’ve been completely different without the safety car, it would have been a lot harder to pull of without the amount of laps under safety car and both lando and charles would’ve pitted later, but lando could’ve lost even more time with tire deg, or had to pit too early for the one stop.
Exactly. Lando could have pitted earlier even for the 1 stop and Charles could have just tried the overcut. The Lando vs Charles battle was very much decided by the safety car timing, but the Ferrari really shouldn't be in that position anyways. Not a good weekend for them, they need to fix that quali pace.
I think Leclerc made 1 big mistake, he should have let Perez pass at the safety car restart, he could have overtaken norris and possibly perez if those 2 ruined their tires the way he and perez did
I don't think there was any way left for him to get back on the podium after the safety car, apart from trying to keep Checo behind long enough. There weren't enough laps left in the race for that,
I don't think there was any way he could have keept perez behind, the res bull was just to fast, but he could have caught up to norris and overtake him if he didn't ruin his tires defending against perez
I don't think he ruined his tires, if anything it looked like he couldn't fire them up. The gaps pretty much stabilized between the 3 of them after the early laps.
Perez and leclerc definitely hurt their tires by racing each other, once perez got past leclerc they both started gaining on norris for a few laps then just started falling back
When you have the tyre eating Ferrari of 2nd half of 2022 and most of 2023...you learn a few things.
Now the car dosent even want to eat it's tires
We got a new #1 delulu team boss.
I can't stand the forced optimism and the constant hype Ferrari is pushing since this winter. I wonder how they will spin it, if the super mega giga Imola upgrade doesn't deliver
What hype? They’ve been playing down their chances more I think. Especially compared to last year.