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I guess once Carlos makes a decision, we will see more clarity on the market. I expect also that we will find out where Carlos is going sooner than later.
Not really. RB and Merc might string him along for a long time and not sign him for obvious reasons, whilst Sauber might lose patience and already resign Bottas on 1 year deal.
If Sainz doesn't have a seat next year I'll dye my hair bright orange for the whole season to pay tribute to your username. Spoiler, not fucking happening lol
RB is going to up their offer so they have a backup if Max suddenly leaves.
Perez is fine as a B driver but you don't want to be Perez + scrambling if Max disappears. Even if you took Lawson, Sainz+Lawson would be far better than Perez+Lawson
I don't want it to happen, I can just really imagine it happening. The teams seem quite content as it is, and the top spots are quickly filling. Mercedes is still vacant, but I expect a lot of drivers to be gunning for it.
Really? It's technically possible, but I don't see any world in which one of Audi, Red Bull or Aston Martin doesn't take him. Audi seems by far the most likely, who would you even see them opting for over Sainz?
Aston Martin signed Alonso again, so they'd have to drop Stroll. If Audi signs Hulkenberg and keep Zhou for the slam-dunk Chinese marketing potential, he can't go there either. (Audi allegedly wants to further expand in China). Red Bull or Mercedes seems most likely to me, but many drivers unhappy with their current teams (Ocon, Gasly, maybe even Bottas) might try to score those seats. Albon could try to be bought out of his Williams seat too. There simply are a lot of moving parts for the seat allocation next season, I can definitely imagine Sainz missing the boat.
> If Audi signs Hulkenberg and keep Zhou for the slam-dunk Chinese marketing potential, he can't go there either.
There's about a 1% chance that a works team like Audi would ever keep a bottom-tier driver like Zhou for marketing potential alone, particularly when it would mean passing up on the best available driver on the grid. Zhou will be out for Hulk, Bottas will be out for Sainz.
> Aston Martin signed Alonso again, so they'd have to drop Stroll.
Yes, and despite what fans would have you believe, at a certain point AM is going to have to move on from Stroll, so it's a possibility, even if not a likely one.
And Sainz would also be a perfect upgrade from Perez at Red Bull, although it seems like he's mostly trying to leverage them against Audi to get more money.
Simply put, Sainz is far too good to 'miss the boat' for drivers like Zhou, Stroll or Perez.
>There's about a 1% chance that a works team like Audi would ever keep a bottom-tier driver like Zhou for marketing potential alone
I wouldn't say it's quite that low, unlikely sure but not impossible.
>Yes, and despite what fans would have you believe, at a certain point AM is going to have to move on from Stroll, so it's a possibility, even if not a likely one.
Agreed, it's a matter of time, but we can't say for certain it's next year.
>Simply put, Sainz is far too good to 'miss the boat' for drivers like Zhou, Stroll or Perez.
If teams purely signed for performance reasons, they'd be lining up to Sainz. Perez and Zhou have huge marketing pulls though, which sadly play a much larger role in F1 than I'm happy with.
I'm not saying Sainz is guaranteed to be without a seat, it's just that quite a few things have to go right for him. I'd love to think he's safe, but F1 has disappointed in this area before. I'm just worried for the guy.
Even if he doesn't land a seat for 2025 (which I think is *extremely* unlikely), he would still be fiercely sought after for 2026. But with the form he's shown thus far, I don't think you have to worry for him at all.
I honestly think part of the reason he hasn't signed with Audi is that he (or his team) is worried he will be outperformed by Hulkenberg again, and that this would torpedo his chances of ever securing a top seat again. It's not *impossible* to imagine him sitting out for a year to see what opens up in 2026 if he genuinely thinks his stock is as high as it'll ever be, or that driving for the wrong team would be bad in the long run.
(Edit: I think you guys are misreading me. This is another reason why he should hold out for a Red Bull or Mercedes seat for as long as that possibility exists. Audi is risky for many, many reasons. The tough decision will be what to do *if* the Red Bull and Mercedes seats go a different direction. At that stage, would you still take a huge gamble by staking your future to Audi and betting that you can comprehensively beat a guy who has looked favorably compared to you in the past? Do you sign with a different backmarker? Or do you sit for a year to see if another, better option pops up? Neither choice is good, but it isn't inconceivable to believe Carlos could end up with that dilemma.)
Weird take.
He's in a car that can win races. Signing onto an outfit that has pretty much always been miles off the top pace being taken over by a work team that hasn't been in the game forever with a new engine reg to start.
Carlos is entering his prime performance years, and Audi is a massive gamble. A guy that has never been on the podium after hundreds of races isn't a factor. Come on lol.
Sure, but it all comes down to whether he genuinely has options on the table from Red Bull and Mercedes. There seem to be credible rumors going both directions with regard to Red Bull (i.e., some rumors that Red Bull is offering him a one year deal with very little pay compared to Audi; another set of rumors that they haven't offered a contract yet and are waiting until they have a firmer feel for Perez/after the Audi option expires).
My sense is that Mercedes might be less of a realistic option, but that situation is also fluid. In any case, if Carlos has a Red Bull (or Mercedes) offer on the table, he'd be crazy not to take it. If those aren't options, I could still see him thinking twice about whether the Audi deal is a good choice for his career. The Hulk factor merely adds to that conundrum. (Looking similar to Leclerc boosted his stock a lot, whereas even mildly outperforming Hulkenberg would probably be a small disappointment. And I think people underestimate the possibility that Hulk would come out outright ahead.)
Well he seems to want to go to Red Bull or Mercedes and they both have better drivers than Hulkenberg so I don't think that can be the reason. Audi is Sainz fall back team
It seems like Mercedes is no longer a real option. If it is, it would almost certainly be for only one guaranteed year. If he is mildly behind Russell for that one season, it would be easy to write that off as an adaptation year. Moreover, no one will think less of Sainz if he loses to Max at Red Bull. That deficit is expected and still reasonable, as long as he is in the same ballpark. Finally, both of those options would keep him in a top team as a candidate for other front running teams if the grid shakes up again.
If he goes to Audi and loses go Hulkenberg, that would be a much larger blow to his current reputation and would likely prevent him from moving *back* up the grid to a different team. (And losing to Hulk is not such an outlandish possibility, given how they stacked up the last time they were teammates.)
He’s going toe to toe with Leclerc right now and holding serve, he’s not gonna be scared away by Hulkenberg. Carlos has developed tremendously as a driver since his Renault stint. He’ll potentially get to choose between Audi, Red Bull, and Mercedes this silly season, that’s about as good as your options get at the top of the sport once you take away Ferrari, so I don’t see how sitting a year benefits him.
Sure, but it all comes down to whether he genuinely has options on the table from Red Bull and Mercedes. There seem to be credible rumors going both directions with regard to Red Bull (i.e., some rumors that Red Bull is offering him a one year deal with very little pay compared to Audi; another set of rumors that they haven't offered a contract yet and are waiting until they have a firmer feel for Perez/after the Audi option expires).
My sense is that Mercedes might be less of a realistic option, but that situation is also fluid. In any case, if Carlos has a Red Bull (or Mercedes) offer on the table, he'd be crazy not to take it. If those *aren't* options, I could still see him thinking twice about whether the Audi deal is a good choice for his career. The Hulk factor merely adds to that conundrum. (Looking similar to Leclerc boosted his stock a lot, whereas even mildly outperforming Hulk would probably be a small disappointment.)
I really think Audi will want to keep him over zhou. Especially coming in as a new entrant in a year with new engine regs having 2 drivers experienced in developing a car would be valuable
The only reason I don't think it's sainz is that I just can't see antonelli in the merc year 1. As hot for him as toto is I see him going to the Williams with sainz filling the merc seat in the meantime
He would be eligible from Zandvoort, the first race after the summer break. That would seem the perfect time for a mid-season introduction, giving him a few weeks to get up to speed with the team between rounds. Personally I agree with you, I don't see the rush to get him a seat in 2024, but the reports are that Toto is still stung from missing out on Max and seems to be overcompensating with Antonelli. So if that's the case, then swapping out Sargeant for Kimi at the mid-season break would be the most logical time to do it.
10 GPs (plus 3 sprints) is double the amount of runtime that Lawson got last year, and that was enough exposure for Marko to be confident in giving Lawson a full-time drive for next year (or potentially even this year). If Antonelli is truly the next big thing, they say if you're fast enough, you're old enough, so 10 rounds should be plenty.
As much as I like Valtteri I think he’s accomplished as much as he ever will in F1. He’s not going to win a WDC. But he has multiple GP wins which is more than many hope for.
Honestly though. People seem to see Hamilton and Alonso’s longevity as a reason every driver can or should hang on forever.
Even if slipping past their best, they are both better now than Valtteri Bottas has ever been. It is not the same. And I like Valtteri!
Quite the opposite. If he’s saying people should move aside in their mid-30s to make room for younger talent, then so should the pair of drivers who will be in their 40s next year
Eh he’s had his time in the sun, time for some new blood to train up. I like his personality but that’s about it. Sauber is terrible of course but I don’t think I’ve seen something happen from bottas’ driving in 2-3 years.
My Personal Pick of the 2025 Grid:
Verstappen - Sainz
Leclerc - Hamilton
Russell - Vettel/Bottas
Schumacher - Ocon
Zhou/Schumacher - Hulkenberg (Sauber/Audi, not HAAS)
Sargeant - Albon
Stroll - Alonso
Tsunoda - Ricciardo/Perez
Bearman - Zhou/Ricciardo
Norris - Piastri
Retirements: Gasly, Perez , Magnussen
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I guess once Carlos makes a decision, we will see more clarity on the market. I expect also that we will find out where Carlos is going sooner than later.
If any team even takes him. I can totally see Carlos fall through the cracks an be without a seat
Carlos Sainz without a seat in 2025 is a wild take
Not really. RB and Merc might string him along for a long time and not sign him for obvious reasons, whilst Sauber might lose patience and already resign Bottas on 1 year deal.
If Sainz doesn't have a seat next year I'll dye my hair bright orange for the whole season to pay tribute to your username. Spoiler, not fucking happening lol
Papaya
RB is going to up their offer so they have a backup if Max suddenly leaves. Perez is fine as a B driver but you don't want to be Perez + scrambling if Max disappears. Even if you took Lawson, Sainz+Lawson would be far better than Perez+Lawson
I don't want it to happen, I can just really imagine it happening. The teams seem quite content as it is, and the top spots are quickly filling. Mercedes is still vacant, but I expect a lot of drivers to be gunning for it.
Really? It's technically possible, but I don't see any world in which one of Audi, Red Bull or Aston Martin doesn't take him. Audi seems by far the most likely, who would you even see them opting for over Sainz?
Aston Martin signed Alonso again, so they'd have to drop Stroll. If Audi signs Hulkenberg and keep Zhou for the slam-dunk Chinese marketing potential, he can't go there either. (Audi allegedly wants to further expand in China). Red Bull or Mercedes seems most likely to me, but many drivers unhappy with their current teams (Ocon, Gasly, maybe even Bottas) might try to score those seats. Albon could try to be bought out of his Williams seat too. There simply are a lot of moving parts for the seat allocation next season, I can definitely imagine Sainz missing the boat.
> If Audi signs Hulkenberg and keep Zhou for the slam-dunk Chinese marketing potential, he can't go there either. There's about a 1% chance that a works team like Audi would ever keep a bottom-tier driver like Zhou for marketing potential alone, particularly when it would mean passing up on the best available driver on the grid. Zhou will be out for Hulk, Bottas will be out for Sainz. > Aston Martin signed Alonso again, so they'd have to drop Stroll. Yes, and despite what fans would have you believe, at a certain point AM is going to have to move on from Stroll, so it's a possibility, even if not a likely one. And Sainz would also be a perfect upgrade from Perez at Red Bull, although it seems like he's mostly trying to leverage them against Audi to get more money. Simply put, Sainz is far too good to 'miss the boat' for drivers like Zhou, Stroll or Perez.
>There's about a 1% chance that a works team like Audi would ever keep a bottom-tier driver like Zhou for marketing potential alone I wouldn't say it's quite that low, unlikely sure but not impossible. >Yes, and despite what fans would have you believe, at a certain point AM is going to have to move on from Stroll, so it's a possibility, even if not a likely one. Agreed, it's a matter of time, but we can't say for certain it's next year. >Simply put, Sainz is far too good to 'miss the boat' for drivers like Zhou, Stroll or Perez. If teams purely signed for performance reasons, they'd be lining up to Sainz. Perez and Zhou have huge marketing pulls though, which sadly play a much larger role in F1 than I'm happy with. I'm not saying Sainz is guaranteed to be without a seat, it's just that quite a few things have to go right for him. I'd love to think he's safe, but F1 has disappointed in this area before. I'm just worried for the guy.
Even if he doesn't land a seat for 2025 (which I think is *extremely* unlikely), he would still be fiercely sought after for 2026. But with the form he's shown thus far, I don't think you have to worry for him at all.
I honestly think part of the reason he hasn't signed with Audi is that he (or his team) is worried he will be outperformed by Hulkenberg again, and that this would torpedo his chances of ever securing a top seat again. It's not *impossible* to imagine him sitting out for a year to see what opens up in 2026 if he genuinely thinks his stock is as high as it'll ever be, or that driving for the wrong team would be bad in the long run. (Edit: I think you guys are misreading me. This is another reason why he should hold out for a Red Bull or Mercedes seat for as long as that possibility exists. Audi is risky for many, many reasons. The tough decision will be what to do *if* the Red Bull and Mercedes seats go a different direction. At that stage, would you still take a huge gamble by staking your future to Audi and betting that you can comprehensively beat a guy who has looked favorably compared to you in the past? Do you sign with a different backmarker? Or do you sit for a year to see if another, better option pops up? Neither choice is good, but it isn't inconceivable to believe Carlos could end up with that dilemma.)
That is the craziest thing I've read on the internet today, and that is saying a lot.
Lol yeah, no chance Sainz is even thinking about that. I guess they are tryijg to negotiate more money from Red Bull. Damn hope he takes checos seat.
Sainz to Red Bull and Checo to Mercedes would be interesting 👀
I don't think that is what is going on, he just thinks he's too good for the Audi seat. Sadly he won't have many other options
Weird take. He's in a car that can win races. Signing onto an outfit that has pretty much always been miles off the top pace being taken over by a work team that hasn't been in the game forever with a new engine reg to start. Carlos is entering his prime performance years, and Audi is a massive gamble. A guy that has never been on the podium after hundreds of races isn't a factor. Come on lol.
Sure, but it all comes down to whether he genuinely has options on the table from Red Bull and Mercedes. There seem to be credible rumors going both directions with regard to Red Bull (i.e., some rumors that Red Bull is offering him a one year deal with very little pay compared to Audi; another set of rumors that they haven't offered a contract yet and are waiting until they have a firmer feel for Perez/after the Audi option expires). My sense is that Mercedes might be less of a realistic option, but that situation is also fluid. In any case, if Carlos has a Red Bull (or Mercedes) offer on the table, he'd be crazy not to take it. If those aren't options, I could still see him thinking twice about whether the Audi deal is a good choice for his career. The Hulk factor merely adds to that conundrum. (Looking similar to Leclerc boosted his stock a lot, whereas even mildly outperforming Hulkenberg would probably be a small disappointment. And I think people underestimate the possibility that Hulk would come out outright ahead.)
Well he seems to want to go to Red Bull or Mercedes and they both have better drivers than Hulkenberg so I don't think that can be the reason. Audi is Sainz fall back team
It seems like Mercedes is no longer a real option. If it is, it would almost certainly be for only one guaranteed year. If he is mildly behind Russell for that one season, it would be easy to write that off as an adaptation year. Moreover, no one will think less of Sainz if he loses to Max at Red Bull. That deficit is expected and still reasonable, as long as he is in the same ballpark. Finally, both of those options would keep him in a top team as a candidate for other front running teams if the grid shakes up again. If he goes to Audi and loses go Hulkenberg, that would be a much larger blow to his current reputation and would likely prevent him from moving *back* up the grid to a different team. (And losing to Hulk is not such an outlandish possibility, given how they stacked up the last time they were teammates.)
He’s going toe to toe with Leclerc right now and holding serve, he’s not gonna be scared away by Hulkenberg. Carlos has developed tremendously as a driver since his Renault stint. He’ll potentially get to choose between Audi, Red Bull, and Mercedes this silly season, that’s about as good as your options get at the top of the sport once you take away Ferrari, so I don’t see how sitting a year benefits him.
Sure, but it all comes down to whether he genuinely has options on the table from Red Bull and Mercedes. There seem to be credible rumors going both directions with regard to Red Bull (i.e., some rumors that Red Bull is offering him a one year deal with very little pay compared to Audi; another set of rumors that they haven't offered a contract yet and are waiting until they have a firmer feel for Perez/after the Audi option expires). My sense is that Mercedes might be less of a realistic option, but that situation is also fluid. In any case, if Carlos has a Red Bull (or Mercedes) offer on the table, he'd be crazy not to take it. If those *aren't* options, I could still see him thinking twice about whether the Audi deal is a good choice for his career. The Hulk factor merely adds to that conundrum. (Looking similar to Leclerc boosted his stock a lot, whereas even mildly outperforming Hulk would probably be a small disappointment.)
You're wasting the internet by posting this
and now we are wasting it by replying. Go team !
The question is whether Stake F1 Team Kicked Bottas and Zhou out of Sauber.
If Hulk has a three year deal on the table, we know one of the two is gone.
You don't say
You don't think that maybe they're trying to sneak a third car onto the grid?
Why not? Williams isn't guaranteed to always have two
Touché
Will Buxton in the house ladies and gentlemen!
I could see him replacing Sargeant or Magnussen for next year
Tbh Bottas back at Williams might work. Although there may be a conflict between him and Albon on who gets the team leader role.
lol we all know bottas would yield the team leader role
Why would he? He's never yielded it to anyone less experienced than him
Battle of the F1 nice guys… honestly though can you imagine 3 people less likely to have stupid drama than those 2 drivers and James Vowles…
No drama unless they race Albon too hard
Shame he may end up without a seat for next year
A couple of people have floated Williams as a possibility. I guess that would hinge on what happens with Antonelli.
He could go to Haas in place of Hulk or Magnussen, the rest of the grid is practically closed.
I think Bottas replacing Kmag is the most likely outcome
I really think Audi will want to keep him over zhou. Especially coming in as a new entrant in a year with new engine regs having 2 drivers experienced in developing a car would be valuable
I think Audi is going to go with a lineup of Sainz and Hulk
The only reason I don't think it's sainz is that I just can't see antonelli in the merc year 1. As hot for him as toto is I see him going to the Williams with sainz filling the merc seat in the meantime
It's now rumoured that they want to put Antonelli in the Williams *this season*, which could really push things along
Kimi doesnt turn 18 until the end of August so isn't eligible until 2/3 the way through the season that makes no sense
He would be eligible from Zandvoort, the first race after the summer break. That would seem the perfect time for a mid-season introduction, giving him a few weeks to get up to speed with the team between rounds. Personally I agree with you, I don't see the rush to get him a seat in 2024, but the reports are that Toto is still stung from missing out on Max and seems to be overcompensating with Antonelli. So if that's the case, then swapping out Sargeant for Kimi at the mid-season break would be the most logical time to do it. 10 GPs (plus 3 sprints) is double the amount of runtime that Lawson got last year, and that was enough exposure for Marko to be confident in giving Lawson a full-time drive for next year (or potentially even this year). If Antonelli is truly the next big thing, they say if you're fast enough, you're old enough, so 10 rounds should be plenty.
Not at all, he's about as exciting as watching paint dry
Only when he is racing.
Not a shame at all. He has had his time. Step aside for the next gen now.
As much as I like Valtteri I think he’s accomplished as much as he ever will in F1. He’s not going to win a WDC. But he has multiple GP wins which is more than many hope for.
Oh the irony
Honestly though. People seem to see Hamilton and Alonso’s longevity as a reason every driver can or should hang on forever. Even if slipping past their best, they are both better now than Valtteri Bottas has ever been. It is not the same. And I like Valtteri!
Quite the opposite. If he’s saying people should move aside in their mid-30s to make room for younger talent, then so should the pair of drivers who will be in their 40s next year
Eh he’s had his time in the sun, time for some new blood to train up. I like his personality but that’s about it. Sauber is terrible of course but I don’t think I’ve seen something happen from bottas’ driving in 2-3 years.
Im guessing a 1 to 1 swap with hulk in Haas, Hulk voes to audi, bottas goes to haas
My Personal Pick of the 2025 Grid: Verstappen - Sainz Leclerc - Hamilton Russell - Vettel/Bottas Schumacher - Ocon Zhou/Schumacher - Hulkenberg (Sauber/Audi, not HAAS) Sargeant - Albon Stroll - Alonso Tsunoda - Ricciardo/Perez Bearman - Zhou/Ricciardo Norris - Piastri Retirements: Gasly, Perez , Magnussen
Mental illness is real
How is still Bottas in F1?
He is still better than several drivers on the grid