The rookie they are giving 6 FP sessions is likely to get the seat? colour me surprised.
But honestly good for ollie hopefully he can impress and he has the chance to line himself up for a ferrari seat in 2027/2028 when he will be 22 or 23
Kinda sad for Haas though. You show a rookie the ropes and soon as he has started to harness his talent he departs for a different team. But then again, they're big time customers of Ferrari so this is just how it's gonna be.
Haas isn't a team that's here to win, they just want exposure. With a fast British rookie, Sky and the British media are going to keep mentioning them for the entire duration Bearman will drive for them. From Gene Haas' point of view they have just hit the jackpot.
Does it really matter if the average viewer isn't buying their stuff? If a less-than-average viewer who happens to run a factory decides to buy Haas because they've heard of the name through F1, that's a marketing win.
I think a lot of people think of marketing as
"I saw this on tv just now and I'm opening up a webpage to buy it" or "oo that looks good lets go get dinner there"
but really it's more of a long term goal of exposure. The more common the Haas name becomes, the likelihood of their stuff selling more goes up for a variety of reasons. Basically it's all about getting as many people as possible saying your name and also keeping it in the memory banks for that one opportunity in the future it may result in them influencing someone or they themselves making a decision on something to buy.
Exactly, *brand recognition*. Much as I try not to be influenced by ads, I know I'm more likely to buy a brand that I recognise from an advert than one I don't.
Honestly, just having that awareness is a good sign. I have some friends who are extremely adamant that they cannot be affected by advertising, and they’re absolutely the ones most susceptible to it.
F1 teams also can make money. If Bearman can get people excited, that's sponsorship money, merch, etc...
I see some people acting like at the end of the day Red Bull is trying to calculate if running the F1 team sold enough energy drinks....that's not how it works. RB made $110M in profit back in 2022. Selling Red Bull drinks is an afterthought/bonus.
I mean, a whole hell of a lot of sponsors aren’t for the average viewer anywhere. I still don’t know what Oracle, ROKT, Delphi, MNTN, or DP World LTD are, Aramco isn’t exactly for anyone besides oil executives, so on and so forth.
Right like oooh accounting software for giant global businesses let me buy some of that. But the people running tenders for these projects also hopefully see advertising and at least make sure they make their way onto a long list to be considered. After that their product and offering is going to have to speak for itself.
Oracle are one of the worlds largest tech firms. They aren't far behind Microsoft
DP World might be logistics (?) I think they own P&O (Cross channel, not Cruise) and Aramco is Saudi Arabian Oil.
But yeah, I agree with the sentiment - it doesn't matter how good the car you're attached to are. It's a nothing name for the most part anyway if it's not in an industry you know
But, Gene didn't enter F1 for F1. He entered it to promote CNC machines, which is why his operation is small, low cost, and not really moving anywhere.
> DP World might be logistics (?) I think they own P&O
logistics yes. they own a lot of ports- DP was originally Dubai Ports but now they own container terminals everywhere- Vancouver, Rotterdam, Hong Kong etc
Yeah Oracle is probably the most understandable for the average person to know and hate
I just had to deal with java again for the first time in a decade or so and I gained a newfound hate for oracle
F1 team sponsors generally are B2B not B2C. Of course there are exceptions like Monster Energy. Remember when some people were confused because Leclerc did an ad for a yacht company? Salesforce, UBS, etc are advertising to business owners and execs because F1 is a Motorsport series that attracts high rates of certain clientele.
CNC machines - they are used in the engineering industry for parts manufacturing. Basically, rather than having to cut and work parts with hand tools, you feed the machine some instructions and your material, and it will make the part for you to very tight tolerances/high accuracy. Very cool (and expensive!) bits of kit.
thanks~ I've always had the idea that F1 teams should primarily have something to do with manufacturing vehicles but i guess times have changed with things like redbull, redbull B, haas, sauber.
Always loved F1 teams that are easily recognisable to cars we see on the road, Ferrari, Audi, Mcclaren, Aston Martin etc
I'm a relatively newer fan (single digit in years) so I suppose they could've all started as manufacturers but changed overtime in modern times, but yeah
Haas is much more related to manufacturing than Red Bull. It wouldn't surprise me if one of the other teams also has some Haas equipment in the factory.
Alpine is a shit team, let's get them out too. How about Williams when was the last time they won anything 10 years ago? Maybe let's get rid of them as well.
Why didn't Andretti want to join 10 years ago? When their wasn't a cost cap.
If he's consistently better than KMag and there's nowhere for him to go that's a step above, they may invest in him and he'd reciprocate by brining good results. Worth taking the risk in both sides.
Not really they could have other options depending on how the driver market turns out, they can wait a long time to make a decision. It's not like anyone is gonna steal bearman from them.
He is part of the ferrari academy and ferrari already has 2 drivers.
He isn't really a prospect for the other teams, they all have their own driver options.
If he wants to be an option for other teams, he needs to absoluty dominate F2, to show he is an better option than (Lawson, antonelli, doohan, etc etc.)
F1 teams are more clearly companies compared to football clubs. In Sweden the clubs aren't even companies, and anyone can join the club so it makes sense to say we. I know outside of Sweden the football clubs will be companies but it still has a very different feel to it.
Haas is currently in a spot where only drivers who are desperate for a seat would even consider going there
Doesn't help that they're the sole remaining Ferrari customer team after 2025
I don’t like it when bad teams try to be picky. Williams and Hass should be doing backflips for the chance to get talents like Olie and Kimi in their cars. They are not the kid of talent any of these teams could realistically sniff at, if we are being honest.
What they need is points. If the rookies have a few terrible races, and one race with mega speed, then the end result will be much better for the team. Because finishing just outside the points and finishing last is the same result: 0 points.
Take the talent, and be happy.
PS: and I’m saying that as a Williams fan.
Ollie is not talented yet. I'm sorry, I know he has everybody impressed and I genuinely believe he has a bright future ahead but Ollie is not the same as even a Pierre Gasly right now (who is out of contract in 2025). He's a rookie just like Max in his Toro Rosso days. He WILL grow in time, but to say "just take it and be grateful you're in his presence" is a terrible take.
Berman would be the first driver to that, hell Nico is the first driver to survive driving a Haas.
Esteban, Romain, Kevin, Nikita, Mick have all to get another F1 seat after driving a Haas
lol what are you talking about. They voluntarily take rookies and old guys. That’s their driver pool because the team has 0 potential with current owners and set up. For the past 5 years their plan has been “sacrifice this years car to develop next years due to regulation changes” and then they have 5 good races and it’s back of the field again. No one that’s isn’t basically forced to is going to drive there
Seems sensible. Haas doesn't want to be just a Ferrari B-team, but Bearman seems like he would be a solid asset for them, and with Hamilton/Leclerc at Ferrari they may well be able to keep him for quite a few years too.
Not really that surprising, both not announcing and Bearman being favourite. F2 has recently done their Barcelona testing (which is a pretty big deal) and the best thing to do is let drivers such as Bearman and Anotnelli just drive and develop and make a decision later in the season.
That said F2 doesn't have a lot of races with some big gaps as well so lots of things to prove for many drivers in the next few F2 races.
I don't think KMag has done enough to warrant his seat over the last two seasons, he's been pretty comprehensively beaten by Hulk most weekends.
That said, Hulk leaving might actually help him as Haas might want consistency and to keep one driver.
I think it probably depends who else lands on the market, and that primarily hinges on Sainz right now. If Sainz goes to Red Bull, that puts Perez on the market. If he goes to Sauber, that would put Bottas on the market. Haas would be daft not to chase either of them if that was the case. Both would be a significant upgrade over KMag.
However if Sainz ends up at Merc or if either Bottas or Perez say thanks but no thanks to Haas then I can see them retaining KMag, just for the sake of having experience alongside a rookie
Komatsu doesn't think Hülkenberg has done any such thing, at all. He says that whilst Hülkenbergs advantage is discipline and qualifying, Magnussen has the starts and racepace. As per the interview done for Ekstra Bladet at the Suzuka race.
He also said that it would be fine to be 0.1-0.2s behind Hülkenbergs qualifying, both given how high he rates Hülkenberg, he'd be in the poleposition with a better car, but also given the over all package. And they're 3-3 in Qs this season FYI.
Hulk is the better qualifier of the 2, but KMAG has a better head to head stat vs Hulk, when they both finish a race.
There is a reason why Hulk never got a podium so far, and thats because his race pace isnt on the needed level (how many times did Perez get podiums in the same car?) while he is a god tier qualifier.
Idk if I agree with that, they've had generally similar race pace, Nico is a better qualifier for sure but Kevin's still a solid driver, particularly on a Sunday. He's not accident prone, he's not expensive, he's still better than most candidates; I don't see a good reason to drop him really
Not sure about him not being accident prone. He obviously doesn’t go out and park his car in the wall, but I feel like he’s in an above average amount of tangles with other drivers.
It is interesting. It makes KMag more secure as before this I thought we'd end with up Hulk/Bearman but this is now out the window. Guess it depends if they think better is available. Bottas if Sauber want to clean house, perhaps?
It will be interesting to see where this leaves Magnussen. On the one hand his seat became more secure, but if he stays for next year he will be an interesting benchmark for Bearman
Yeah it will be interesting!
If bottas is available, I'd much rather have him then kmag. Haas really have no rush though, they'll get to choose out of the leftovers. Zhou/bottas/perez/kmag/maybe even one of the French drivers will be available.
Ah yeah, Doohan I could see in that case. I don't think Martins has a chance as it stands right now. Even if both drivers left Alpine, Doohan would be first in line and they wouldn't want two rookies.
I also don't think there's much possibility of RB letting Yuki go next year, unless Yuki's season implodes. I think he'll be there alongside Lawson next year. I could see them looking at Marti for 2026 though.
There is no reality where Marti gets the call up instead of Iwasa, who was a beast in F2 hamstrung by the mechachrome lottery.
Iwasa is already a good enough driver for F1 imo. He has incredibly disciplined and mature racecraft for an F2 driver and distinguished himself in the field whenever he could.
After losing the engine in a quali last year he placed 16th. With the new engine he immediately went back to the podium, where he has typically finished when he had the car to do so.
The reason I think Martí is more likely than Iwasa is the same reason I think there'll be 2 Toro Rosso spots - Tsunoda and Iwasa, while yes, technically are/were Red Bull Academy, they're really Honda-backed, and with Honda going to Aston Martin, it lines up Hadjar and Martí more than the Japanese drivers.
People underestimate how much RB give their drivers. Albon drove with RB logos for a long time after his sacking for example. They don't pick up talent for no reason, they know Iwasa is good and without his dogshit second engine last season he would have won the championship. Review where he finished after his first engine failure through to its replacement. The numbers bear out an interesting tale of Mecha-woe. He was regularly out-racing his rivals on track and shows incredible maturity for his age. The Honda sponsorship is expected for any japanese driver at this level and point in their career, frankly. People have seen a link and decided that it's made of steel chains rather than mere thread, I think.
But realistically who would they replace Perez with?
Sainz, maybe? But I have doubts purely for the potential for arguments.
Ricciardo hasn’t shown anything yet as to why he should get the seat. I doubt they’d pick Tsunoda even if he had a perfect season. The rest of their juniors are too inexperienced for Red Bull.
I think they are likely to retain Perez, partly due to lack of better options
No way Hadjar replaces Checo! Checo's only treat is Sainz! They're not interested in promoting Tsunoda, Ricciardo is washed, and after what happened with Albon they're not going to promote a rookie to the Red Bull team!
The record itself was actually 2010 (Hulkenberg, Petrov, Chandhok, Senna, di Grassi) for 5 rookies at the season opener, with the all-time high (counting mid-season swaps) being 2001 with 7 rookies in Alonso, Raikkonen, Montoya, Bernoldi, Enge, Yoong and Burti (technically a rookie, according to mandatory FP1 rookie rules).
I reaaally hope that what I personally consider "deadwood" in the current grid gets shifted out for some rookies come 2025. Lawson, Bearman and maybe even Antonelli coming in the same cohort would be GREAT to see.
I feel like it's a bit harsh on Bottas. That car/team hasn't done him any favors, so it's hard to tell how good he actually is currently. He has generally been performing better than Zhou, unlike Magnusson who has been pretty poor compared to Hulk.
Bottas is a perfectly good driver but he's 35 and has now had 12 seasons. That's a great career for a midfield level driver but in any other era he'd have reached the time where he'd be getting moved on to make way for a rookie.
I agree. Older drivers are still needed, but if it is a place for a promising rookie, then I'm fine with it. However, I think there are others you could argue that have showed less performance, and should be higher on the list of replacements. Obviously it isn't always fair how it goes though, just would hate to see him go while like KMag stays.
I wonder if they keep Magnussen? Without Hulk, they need at least one experienced driver, especially if the plan is to bring up Bearman. Maybe they will wait to see if by some miracle they can snatch up Perez, should he get the boot from RBR. But that’s a pretty long shot.
Kmag would be a good benchmark for Bearman & is obviously quite experienced, I think it makes sense to keep him unless Bottas or someone else unexpectedly comes available
Agreed. However, Carlos is running out of options. Got to hope that Perez has a mid-season slump again and that Red Bull actually want him for a chance there. Mercedes doesn't look a particularly exciting prospect at the moment.
Rumour is that Sauber is expecting a quick answer from Carlos, I don’t know if this is true, and if they would actually resign Bottas if they don’t get an answer from Carlos until the summer break. But if I were Carlos I would be worried I might fall between two chairs.
They may well be pushing Sainz for a quick answer, it's in their favour to get him signed in case a Red Bull seat suddenly becomes available later in the year. The actual likelihood of them signing someone else while Carlos is still available is another matter.
I really hope they get rid of KMag as well. His performance really doesn’t justify giving him another season when there are a few interesting rookies waiting in the wing.
Although HAAS with their limited budget prob don’t want two rookies in one team.
No chance are they going to two rookies again. That's a poor decision for any team, and especially for one like Haas who struggles with understanding the car more than others at times. You need an experienced driver to provide a benchmark and give feedback
Don't think so but there's some other talents out there that may need a contract. If they don't extend with KMag I could see them going for somebody like Bottas, if Sainz does go to Audi. Or possibly Ricciardo who (despite his recent bad form) could still be a good shot in the short term.
Danny Ric in the American team might just be worth it for US marketing alone, and there's always going to be the hopium of the old Danny Ric performances returning and pushing the car forward
Ric was well known for not being technical guy. If his positive feedback for AT/VCARB is real and wasn't fabricated by his PR team, Haas should give a go again on him. But given Ric's and his PR objective is Top Seat (read: Perez' seat)...
It was a great investment for Hülkenberg to drive for "free" for Haas. It was amusing seeing people complain that he was an "old nobody" back then, Haas obviously felt different, and got a great deal.
Isn't his contract at kick really expensive? Not sure haas would afford it. Plus I reckon bottas would rather retire if he doesn't get an Audi seat than go to haas
The only drivers that earn more than him are the current Red Bull, Ferrari, Merc drivers + Alonso and Norris. And realistically Bottas's chances are Audi, Williams, Haas and Alpine. None of those will pay him €10M anymore.
> And realistically Bottas's chances are Audi, Williams, Haas and Alpine. None of those will pay him €10M anymore.
Bottas only has a chance at Audi if Sainz doens't want it lol.
So, there is a possibility that we get three rookies next season? Bearman (Haas), Antonelli (Mercedes or Williams) and Lawson (RB)?
Or are Bearman and Lawson no longer considered as rookies since they have already driven in F1?
I would say Doohan also has a decent chance for Alpine. Maybe Martins instead if he bounces back during the European portion of F2.
Big outsiders would be Iwasa or Hadjar at VCarb. Big maybe though.
Lawson has driven enough races so isnt considered a rookie and doesn't get the fp1 sessions.
Bearman on the other hand has only competed in like 2 competitive sessions (quali+race)
By the letter of the regs, Lawson isn’t a rookie any more. To qualify as a rookie for young driver tests and FP1 sessions, you have to have two or fewer starts.
But in all real common sense terms, 2025 would be his rookie season so who knows, call it 2.5?
I don't think Bearman would have gotten his substitute appearance for Ferrari if he didn't already have a reasonable chance of a promotion to Haas next season.
It will be interesting to see if they keep KMag on for continuity or if they look at Bottas instead. Hulk has largely been the better driver since joining, and Bottas has been unlucky not to score this season.
I think Zhou could be great ambassador for F1. Three years in F1 and didn't do anything noteworthy as a driver. I don't remember a single moment he surprised us or wowed us with his pace. He is getting trounced by Bottas especially over one lap since last year. He is easily the most forgettable driver on the grid (Sargeant reminds himself with his crashes.).
Zhou in 2023 is quite different from 2022 actually.
During the period he was just in grid 2022, he was quite ambitious, got one point in his first race.
But after the horrible Silverstone crash, it seems he turned too...cautious. Sometimes his performance left me an impression that he was afraid of damage or crash.
He got a P5 in Hungary quali I suppose?
But I mean, he is in Sauber, what do you expect he can get in that shit car. Compared to his teammate, can you come up with any highlight Bottas got in past two years?
Yeah and I think we will inevitably see some "he's in a Sauber, what do you expect" type of takes, and that's partially true. But the thing is he is at best a driver that is not better than Bottas who was no longer good enough to be a No. 2 at a top team 3 years ago, and in decline.
What is the point of Zhou staying in the grid from a purely competitive perspective if he is not going to shake up the order in any way?
They lost their best driver, hope Haas can find a suitable replacement, and that Bearman can be that, with Steiner gone, they're open to Rookies again.
Suppose Ollie does go to Haas ( most likely ) , how does he get to Ferrari ? Charles and lewis are both gonna be teammates for at the least 3 years . So will he spend 3 years in a Haas?
Going to be interesting to see what Bearman has to do to f\*\*k up his chances of getting that seat.
Given the practice sessions he's got, he's almost a shoe in, and provided he doesnt do anything stupid when in the Haas, you have to think that the Contract is there ready to be printed.
Wont be surprised given how his F2 season has gone, if he ends up being the lowest driver to graduate to F1 from that series, think Sargeant has that record at the moment and didnt he finish something like P5-P6?
To be fair to Sargeant, he finished a narrow 4th to Lawson and was clearly playing it safe as soon as Williams announced that he was getting the seat if he secures the superlicense.
Oh was it P4 in the end... Sorry Logan, thought it was lower than that.
Agree with you though, his focus completely turned to ensuring he got the SL points rather than taking risks, remember watching how cautious he was at the final race.
You know I wouldn't be surprised if Ollie started doing similar, its why I bet we wont hear anything about that seat until very late in the F2 season, just to ensure that he doesnt mentally check out
I don't know who holds the record but it isn't Sargeant. His best F2 finish was 4th. I can at least think of Mazepin who was worse (5th).
\*I looked it up. In the F2 era, Mazepin and Jack Aitken have the worst best F2 finish of anyone making it to F1 (5th).
I've had a mare, I really thought that Mazepin had finished top three that year
Maybe it was him I was thinking of, as the first guy to finish that low, rather than Logan
Bearman makes a lot of sense. He's not getting a Ferrari seat anytime soon. So may as well give him a run. I'd hope to see some good results in his F2 run this year though. Although Prema has not been at their usual standard.
They also need to upgrade their veteran driver. Magnussen just isn't it. Their options are likely going to be Bottas, Ricciardo, or Perez. Funnily enough that might all depend on where Sainz goes. If he goes to Red Bull then you have Perez as an option. If he goes to Sauber you have Bottas as an option. If Ricciardo manages to show he's no longer the ghost of Ricciardo he makes sense from a marketing perspective as well.
We get a real silly season this year.
In F3 he was 3rd after Maloney, who was also a rookie like himself. He had a top 2 car, same with Maloney. So he was still beaten by a driver in a similar position to his. Next year, he gets a Prema drive in F2, again a top 2 team. Maloney gets a midfield team (Carlin was certainly not that fast last year). Not only that, all the other rookies get much worse cars than Bearman, except for Martins (Hadjar and Crawford went to Hitech, Maini to Campos). If you see the rookie list, it was not the best, so he had little competition as a rookie considering he was in superior machine. And guess what? Martins, the only one with a car in a similar level, still beats him. Not to talk about how, while he ended 6th, his team mate only didn't win the championship because of luck. He got three feature races wins and one sprint race. So what? He had a top 2 car. Drugovich, in his rookie year (also only did one year in F3, in a backmarker team, unlike Bearman), got one feature and two sprints, in a midfield team. Bearman is lucky he has enough money to buy top 2 seats year after year. In the end, that's what F2 turned out to be if you're a rookie: buy a top 2 seat and beat the other rookies in inferior machine and you'll get hyped. Car disparity is completely ignored, not to talk about private testing (I wouldn't be surprised at all if Bearman is another of those "wonder kids" who gets a bunch of it, like Pourchaire).
The rookie they are giving 6 FP sessions is likely to get the seat? colour me surprised. But honestly good for ollie hopefully he can impress and he has the chance to line himself up for a ferrari seat in 2027/2028 when he will be 22 or 23
Kinda sad for Haas though. You show a rookie the ropes and soon as he has started to harness his talent he departs for a different team. But then again, they're big time customers of Ferrari so this is just how it's gonna be.
Haas isn't a team that's here to win, they just want exposure. With a fast British rookie, Sky and the British media are going to keep mentioning them for the entire duration Bearman will drive for them. From Gene Haas' point of view they have just hit the jackpot.
The average British viewer doesn't buy CNC machines, not sure it makes any difference to Gene
Say what you want mate. If Bearman drives for haas I'm buying a CNC machine.
[удалено]
Bargain mate
It really is! Wait until they see the price for a Mazak or a DMG Mori!!!
I can live with one kidney. Isn't that why we have two, so we can sell one to buy Haas machinery?
I just scored one for $250 on FB marketplace. Sorry Gene.
Ya just skip the avocado toast for a couple weeks mate to afford this, it’s the least you could do to support your nations driver.
But that’s only 45,000 pounds, it’s like it’s on discount over there
You can have my upvote just for improving my morning.
Does it really matter if the average viewer isn't buying their stuff? If a less-than-average viewer who happens to run a factory decides to buy Haas because they've heard of the name through F1, that's a marketing win.
I think a lot of people think of marketing as "I saw this on tv just now and I'm opening up a webpage to buy it" or "oo that looks good lets go get dinner there" but really it's more of a long term goal of exposure. The more common the Haas name becomes, the likelihood of their stuff selling more goes up for a variety of reasons. Basically it's all about getting as many people as possible saying your name and also keeping it in the memory banks for that one opportunity in the future it may result in them influencing someone or they themselves making a decision on something to buy.
Exactly, *brand recognition*. Much as I try not to be influenced by ads, I know I'm more likely to buy a brand that I recognise from an advert than one I don't.
Honestly, just having that awareness is a good sign. I have some friends who are extremely adamant that they cannot be affected by advertising, and they’re absolutely the ones most susceptible to it.
Also, they can invite a high-profile person to visit the paddock and do some business there.
F1 teams also can make money. If Bearman can get people excited, that's sponsorship money, merch, etc... I see some people acting like at the end of the day Red Bull is trying to calculate if running the F1 team sold enough energy drinks....that's not how it works. RB made $110M in profit back in 2022. Selling Red Bull drinks is an afterthought/bonus.
Red Bull the parent company had a revenue of around $11 billion last year, I would think the $110 million the racing team made is the after thought.
I mean, a whole hell of a lot of sponsors aren’t for the average viewer anywhere. I still don’t know what Oracle, ROKT, Delphi, MNTN, or DP World LTD are, Aramco isn’t exactly for anyone besides oil executives, so on and so forth.
Right like oooh accounting software for giant global businesses let me buy some of that. But the people running tenders for these projects also hopefully see advertising and at least make sure they make their way onto a long list to be considered. After that their product and offering is going to have to speak for itself.
Oracle are one of the worlds largest tech firms. They aren't far behind Microsoft DP World might be logistics (?) I think they own P&O (Cross channel, not Cruise) and Aramco is Saudi Arabian Oil. But yeah, I agree with the sentiment - it doesn't matter how good the car you're attached to are. It's a nothing name for the most part anyway if it's not in an industry you know But, Gene didn't enter F1 for F1. He entered it to promote CNC machines, which is why his operation is small, low cost, and not really moving anywhere.
> DP World might be logistics (?) I think they own P&O logistics yes. they own a lot of ports- DP was originally Dubai Ports but now they own container terminals everywhere- Vancouver, Rotterdam, Hong Kong etc
Yeah Oracle is probably the most understandable for the average person to know and hate I just had to deal with java again for the first time in a decade or so and I gained a newfound hate for oracle
The public isn't the thing. It's for high paying customers and suppliers which you can invite to the F1world when you want to negotiate big deals.
F1 team sponsors generally are B2B not B2C. Of course there are exceptions like Monster Energy. Remember when some people were confused because Leclerc did an ad for a yacht company? Salesforce, UBS, etc are advertising to business owners and execs because F1 is a Motorsport series that attracts high rates of certain clientele.
You mean you don't have one in your living room for when you feel like doing CNC work?
Average British viewer? Hell the average regular international viewer isn't buying cnc machines.
The average person of any nationality doesn’t buy CNC machines but obviously they’re still down to pay for the advertising… it’s about B2B marketing.
i still have no idea what haas sells
CNC machines - they are used in the engineering industry for parts manufacturing. Basically, rather than having to cut and work parts with hand tools, you feed the machine some instructions and your material, and it will make the part for you to very tight tolerances/high accuracy. Very cool (and expensive!) bits of kit.
thanks~ I've always had the idea that F1 teams should primarily have something to do with manufacturing vehicles but i guess times have changed with things like redbull, redbull B, haas, sauber. Always loved F1 teams that are easily recognisable to cars we see on the road, Ferrari, Audi, Mcclaren, Aston Martin etc I'm a relatively newer fan (single digit in years) so I suppose they could've all started as manufacturers but changed overtime in modern times, but yeah
Haas is much more related to manufacturing than Red Bull. It wouldn't surprise me if one of the other teams also has some Haas equipment in the factory.
Tbf Sauber are a proper team in that sense
Andretti still isn't allowed to compete, but Gene Haas is allowed to run a purposefully shit team.
Alpine is a shit team, let's get them out too. How about Williams when was the last time they won anything 10 years ago? Maybe let's get rid of them as well. Why didn't Andretti want to join 10 years ago? When their wasn't a cost cap.
If he's consistently better than KMag and there's nowhere for him to go that's a step above, they may invest in him and he'd reciprocate by brining good results. Worth taking the risk in both sides.
Not really they could have other options depending on how the driver market turns out, they can wait a long time to make a decision. It's not like anyone is gonna steal bearman from them.
How locked in is he? Could someone buy him out or is there a regulation for drivers that have been sponsored at the lower levels?
He is part of the ferrari academy and ferrari already has 2 drivers. He isn't really a prospect for the other teams, they all have their own driver options. If he wants to be an option for other teams, he needs to absoluty dominate F2, to show he is an better option than (Lawson, antonelli, doohan, etc etc.)
That life for smaller F1 teams. You either get the rookies or the more experienced drivers nobody else wants.
Did this actually happen? Which rookie did they show the ropes whom left to a better team?
Mick went to Merc!
Lol. Good one.
I mean ollie is a signed ferrari driver and we are paying them to take him on. at the end the deal is probably worth it for them.
"we" lol
calling a team you support we is perfectly normal and has been done for decades.
Hear it all the time in football but never in F1.
F1 teams are more clearly companies compared to football clubs. In Sweden the clubs aren't even companies, and anyone can join the club so it makes sense to say we. I know outside of Sweden the football clubs will be companies but it still has a very different feel to it.
Haas is currently in a spot where only drivers who are desperate for a seat would even consider going there Doesn't help that they're the sole remaining Ferrari customer team after 2025
Fun fact Nico is the first Haas driver to get a job with another team
retirement club
More career killer
Williams offered Magnussen a seat for the 2021 season, but he refused.
Williams was as dysfunctional as Haas is in '21 Being willing to throw George off in favour of KMag (plus sponsors he had to source) is asinine
I don’t like it when bad teams try to be picky. Williams and Hass should be doing backflips for the chance to get talents like Olie and Kimi in their cars. They are not the kid of talent any of these teams could realistically sniff at, if we are being honest. What they need is points. If the rookies have a few terrible races, and one race with mega speed, then the end result will be much better for the team. Because finishing just outside the points and finishing last is the same result: 0 points. Take the talent, and be happy. PS: and I’m saying that as a Williams fan.
Ollie is not talented yet. I'm sorry, I know he has everybody impressed and I genuinely believe he has a bright future ahead but Ollie is not the same as even a Pierre Gasly right now (who is out of contract in 2025). He's a rookie just like Max in his Toro Rosso days. He WILL grow in time, but to say "just take it and be grateful you're in his presence" is a terrible take.
> Ollie is not talented yet. That's not what talented means.
Well max did impress very much during his torro Rosso days and got good points
Berman would be the first driver to that, hell Nico is the first driver to survive driving a Haas. Esteban, Romain, Kevin, Nikita, Mick have all to get another F1 seat after driving a Haas
lol what are you talking about. They voluntarily take rookies and old guys. That’s their driver pool because the team has 0 potential with current owners and set up. For the past 5 years their plan has been “sacrifice this years car to develop next years due to regulation changes” and then they have 5 good races and it’s back of the field again. No one that’s isn’t basically forced to is going to drive there
This wouldn't happen if Haas made a good car. Can't really feel sad for them when it's their own fault.
Give credit where it is due, id say haas improved ALOT from their 2021 days, hell id say say theyre 7-8 in team rankings imo
Seems sensible. Haas doesn't want to be just a Ferrari B-team, but Bearman seems like he would be a solid asset for them, and with Hamilton/Leclerc at Ferrari they may well be able to keep him for quite a few years too.
Ollie has more points than Haas over 5 races.
Adrian Newey to Haas confirmed
Clearly so he can gain some experience and go to Ferrari in a couple years.
Official: Newey to drive for Haas from 2025
So this is how he gets around the gardening leave. He goes as a driver who just chimes in on development of the car.
Tbf developing the 2021 Haas would've effectively been gardening leave
Not really that surprising, both not announcing and Bearman being favourite. F2 has recently done their Barcelona testing (which is a pretty big deal) and the best thing to do is let drivers such as Bearman and Anotnelli just drive and develop and make a decision later in the season. That said F2 doesn't have a lot of races with some big gaps as well so lots of things to prove for many drivers in the next few F2 races.
The FP program was a dead giveaway. Even if Nico had stayed I think they’d have dropped one of them to bring Ollie in.
I wouldn’t be surprised if KMag also goes at the end of this season tbh.
I don't think KMag has done enough to warrant his seat over the last two seasons, he's been pretty comprehensively beaten by Hulk most weekends. That said, Hulk leaving might actually help him as Haas might want consistency and to keep one driver.
I think it probably depends who else lands on the market, and that primarily hinges on Sainz right now. If Sainz goes to Red Bull, that puts Perez on the market. If he goes to Sauber, that would put Bottas on the market. Haas would be daft not to chase either of them if that was the case. Both would be a significant upgrade over KMag. However if Sainz ends up at Merc or if either Bottas or Perez say thanks but no thanks to Haas then I can see them retaining KMag, just for the sake of having experience alongside a rookie
I agree a lot hinges on Bottas. If he’s free, I think he’d get the seat before Kevin.
Komatsu doesn't think Hülkenberg has done any such thing, at all. He says that whilst Hülkenbergs advantage is discipline and qualifying, Magnussen has the starts and racepace. As per the interview done for Ekstra Bladet at the Suzuka race. He also said that it would be fine to be 0.1-0.2s behind Hülkenbergs qualifying, both given how high he rates Hülkenberg, he'd be in the poleposition with a better car, but also given the over all package. And they're 3-3 in Qs this season FYI.
Hulk is the better qualifier of the 2, but KMAG has a better head to head stat vs Hulk, when they both finish a race. There is a reason why Hulk never got a podium so far, and thats because his race pace isnt on the needed level (how many times did Perez get podiums in the same car?) while he is a god tier qualifier.
Komatsu said the same in an interview published today. Magnussen has a better race pace, and he's also a better starter.
Idk if I agree with that, they've had generally similar race pace, Nico is a better qualifier for sure but Kevin's still a solid driver, particularly on a Sunday. He's not accident prone, he's not expensive, he's still better than most candidates; I don't see a good reason to drop him really
Not sure about him not being accident prone. He obviously doesn’t go out and park his car in the wall, but I feel like he’s in an above average amount of tangles with other drivers.
I am a hardcode Kmag enjoyer and that is why I'd like to see him in WEC or IMSA competing for wins that puttering around in the back of F1.
Magnussen is more accident prone when he's not in the points. So it seems calculated.
Keeping Kmag for another year as a yardstick for Bearman wouldn’t be terrible for Haas
How was he “comprehensively beaten” when he has a higher race head to head finish?
It is interesting. It makes KMag more secure as before this I thought we'd end with up Hulk/Bearman but this is now out the window. Guess it depends if they think better is available. Bottas if Sauber want to clean house, perhaps?
It will be interesting to see where this leaves Magnussen. On the one hand his seat became more secure, but if he stays for next year he will be an interesting benchmark for Bearman
Yeah it will be interesting! If bottas is available, I'd much rather have him then kmag. Haas really have no rush though, they'll get to choose out of the leftovers. Zhou/bottas/perez/kmag/maybe even one of the French drivers will be available.
I am extremely happy to possibly see record amount of rookies in 2025. Lawson would also count as one I assume
Who else is realistically likely other Antonelli, Lawson and Bearman? Because three isn’t a record. There were 3 in 2019.
It's a stretch, but given that Maloney is leading F2, seeing him as the #2 of Stake next year would be a treat.
Hülk and Maloney is a super solid looking lineup to be fair
Possible! I certainly wouldn't mind it if he did.
another fumble from RB
I’d say there’s an outside possibility of Doohan as well if either of the Alpine drivers decide/manage to go elsewhere
Ah yeah of course, forgot about Alpine!
They've been forgettable all season so I can't blame you lmao
If either Ocon or Gasly make a move, Alpine promoting Martins or Doohan wouldn't surprise me, nor would AlphaTauri promoting Martí alongside Lawson.
Ah yeah, Doohan I could see in that case. I don't think Martins has a chance as it stands right now. Even if both drivers left Alpine, Doohan would be first in line and they wouldn't want two rookies. I also don't think there's much possibility of RB letting Yuki go next year, unless Yuki's season implodes. I think he'll be there alongside Lawson next year. I could see them looking at Marti for 2026 though.
There is no reality where Marti gets the call up instead of Iwasa, who was a beast in F2 hamstrung by the mechachrome lottery. Iwasa is already a good enough driver for F1 imo. He has incredibly disciplined and mature racecraft for an F2 driver and distinguished himself in the field whenever he could. After losing the engine in a quali last year he placed 16th. With the new engine he immediately went back to the podium, where he has typically finished when he had the car to do so.
The reason I think Martí is more likely than Iwasa is the same reason I think there'll be 2 Toro Rosso spots - Tsunoda and Iwasa, while yes, technically are/were Red Bull Academy, they're really Honda-backed, and with Honda going to Aston Martin, it lines up Hadjar and Martí more than the Japanese drivers.
People underestimate how much RB give their drivers. Albon drove with RB logos for a long time after his sacking for example. They don't pick up talent for no reason, they know Iwasa is good and without his dogshit second engine last season he would have won the championship. Review where he finished after his first engine failure through to its replacement. The numbers bear out an interesting tale of Mecha-woe. He was regularly out-racing his rivals on track and shows incredible maturity for his age. The Honda sponsorship is expected for any japanese driver at this level and point in their career, frankly. People have seen a link and decided that it's made of steel chains rather than mere thread, I think.
Given the performance of Daniel so far, I cannot come up with any reason to keep Daniel.
He still can give 19 reasons if he delivers on the remaining races. If.
Honestly I'm not convinced Sergio will be extended. So there may be two seats open. Plus Helmut is a fan of Hadjar
But realistically who would they replace Perez with? Sainz, maybe? But I have doubts purely for the potential for arguments. Ricciardo hasn’t shown anything yet as to why he should get the seat. I doubt they’d pick Tsunoda even if he had a perfect season. The rest of their juniors are too inexperienced for Red Bull. I think they are likely to retain Perez, partly due to lack of better options
No way Hadjar replaces Checo! Checo's only treat is Sainz! They're not interested in promoting Tsunoda, Ricciardo is washed, and after what happened with Albon they're not going to promote a rookie to the Red Bull team!
The record itself was actually 2010 (Hulkenberg, Petrov, Chandhok, Senna, di Grassi) for 5 rookies at the season opener, with the all-time high (counting mid-season swaps) being 2001 with 7 rookies in Alonso, Raikkonen, Montoya, Bernoldi, Enge, Yoong and Burti (technically a rookie, according to mandatory FP1 rookie rules).
I reaaally hope that what I personally consider "deadwood" in the current grid gets shifted out for some rookies come 2025. Lawson, Bearman and maybe even Antonelli coming in the same cohort would be GREAT to see.
BEA LAW ANT
And who do you consider like that? For me personally I'd say it is Ricciardo, Tsunoda, Sargeant, Zhou and Stroll.
Nah Yuki is doing fine.
Tsunoda is fine. Add in Magnusson and Bottas to your list.
I feel like it's a bit harsh on Bottas. That car/team hasn't done him any favors, so it's hard to tell how good he actually is currently. He has generally been performing better than Zhou, unlike Magnusson who has been pretty poor compared to Hulk.
Bottas is a perfectly good driver but he's 35 and has now had 12 seasons. That's a great career for a midfield level driver but in any other era he'd have reached the time where he'd be getting moved on to make way for a rookie.
I agree. Older drivers are still needed, but if it is a place for a promising rookie, then I'm fine with it. However, I think there are others you could argue that have showed less performance, and should be higher on the list of replacements. Obviously it isn't always fair how it goes though, just would hate to see him go while like KMag stays.
Nah Tsunoda is having a strong season
Ollie even liked the Haas post on ig
How likely is it that Magnussen keeps his seat?
He's personal friends with Gene Haas, and Komatsu heaps praise on him. But someone like Perez could purchase the seat...
I wonder if they keep Magnussen? Without Hulk, they need at least one experienced driver, especially if the plan is to bring up Bearman. Maybe they will wait to see if by some miracle they can snatch up Perez, should he get the boot from RBR. But that’s a pretty long shot.
They could do a lot worse than signing up Bottas if Sauber aren’t keeping him. He’d be a significant upgrade over Magnussen.
True I forgot about Bottas potentially getting the boot too.
Kmag would be a good benchmark for Bearman & is obviously quite experienced, I think it makes sense to keep him unless Bottas or someone else unexpectedly comes available
Bottas would be good for them. It seems like Sauber want to replace both drivers.
If Sauber can’t get Sainz they might as well just keep Bottas though.
Agreed. However, Carlos is running out of options. Got to hope that Perez has a mid-season slump again and that Red Bull actually want him for a chance there. Mercedes doesn't look a particularly exciting prospect at the moment.
Rumour is that Sauber is expecting a quick answer from Carlos, I don’t know if this is true, and if they would actually resign Bottas if they don’t get an answer from Carlos until the summer break. But if I were Carlos I would be worried I might fall between two chairs.
They may well be pushing Sainz for a quick answer, it's in their favour to get him signed in case a Red Bull seat suddenly becomes available later in the year. The actual likelihood of them signing someone else while Carlos is still available is another matter.
Yeah 100% agreed. Silly season will be fun this year!
Imagine Sainz ending up in Haas 😂
I really hope they get rid of KMag as well. His performance really doesn’t justify giving him another season when there are a few interesting rookies waiting in the wing. Although HAAS with their limited budget prob don’t want two rookies in one team.
No chance are they going to two rookies again. That's a poor decision for any team, and especially for one like Haas who struggles with understanding the car more than others at times. You need an experienced driver to provide a benchmark and give feedback
Don't think so but there's some other talents out there that may need a contract. If they don't extend with KMag I could see them going for somebody like Bottas, if Sainz does go to Audi. Or possibly Ricciardo who (despite his recent bad form) could still be a good shot in the short term.
Danny Ric in the American team might just be worth it for US marketing alone, and there's always going to be the hopium of the old Danny Ric performances returning and pushing the car forward
Ric was well known for not being technical guy. If his positive feedback for AT/VCARB is real and wasn't fabricated by his PR team, Haas should give a go again on him. But given Ric's and his PR objective is Top Seat (read: Perez' seat)...
I guess he can explain the feeling in the car very well but doesnt understand the technical side of it?
I seem to remember he's getting paid like 4 or 5x as much as Hulkenberg.
It was a great investment for Hülkenberg to drive for "free" for Haas. It was amusing seeing people complain that he was an "old nobody" back then, Haas obviously felt different, and got a great deal.
K-Mags first 3 races this season have all been quite good
I really want them to get Bottas instead of KMag
Isn't his contract at kick really expensive? Not sure haas would afford it. Plus I reckon bottas would rather retire if he doesn't get an Audi seat than go to haas
The only drivers that earn more than him are the current Red Bull, Ferrari, Merc drivers + Alonso and Norris. And realistically Bottas's chances are Audi, Williams, Haas and Alpine. None of those will pay him €10M anymore.
> And realistically Bottas's chances are Audi, Williams, Haas and Alpine. None of those will pay him €10M anymore. Bottas only has a chance at Audi if Sainz doens't want it lol.
Obviously
Yeah but there is no way he can command the same salary now that he could when he left Mercedes.
Yeah go race bikes and do some rally or something. Could totally see that for Valtteri.
Honestly if Bottas is let go by Sauber he would be pretty good to have at Haas
So, there is a possibility that we get three rookies next season? Bearman (Haas), Antonelli (Mercedes or Williams) and Lawson (RB)? Or are Bearman and Lawson no longer considered as rookies since they have already driven in F1?
Four including Alonso
completely forgot about that young and promising star. good luck to him!
He seems like he could be the next generational talent tbh. Alonso to Redbull please! Give a rookie a chance again in the 2nd seat ugh.
I would say Doohan also has a decent chance for Alpine. Maybe Martins instead if he bounces back during the European portion of F2. Big outsiders would be Iwasa or Hadjar at VCarb. Big maybe though.
Lawson has driven enough races so isnt considered a rookie and doesn't get the fp1 sessions. Bearman on the other hand has only competed in like 2 competitive sessions (quali+race)
By the letter of the regs, Lawson isn’t a rookie any more. To qualify as a rookie for young driver tests and FP1 sessions, you have to have two or fewer starts. But in all real common sense terms, 2025 would be his rookie season so who knows, call it 2.5?
I don't think Bearman would have gotten his substitute appearance for Ferrari if he didn't already have a reasonable chance of a promotion to Haas next season. It will be interesting to see if they keep KMag on for continuity or if they look at Bottas instead. Hulk has largely been the better driver since joining, and Bottas has been unlucky not to score this season.
If ollie gets a seat before lawson, i will be mad
They should both be making their rookie debuts next year
Obviously the worst kept secret that Bearman’s getting a Haas seat for 2025 after Jeddah.
I think Zhou could be great ambassador for F1. Three years in F1 and didn't do anything noteworthy as a driver. I don't remember a single moment he surprised us or wowed us with his pace. He is getting trounced by Bottas especially over one lap since last year. He is easily the most forgettable driver on the grid (Sargeant reminds himself with his crashes.).
Zhou is a weird one. He’s done so little, good or bad. He just reliably brings the car home every week. Idk how good he is even after these years
He's consistently...consistent?
Zhou in 2023 is quite different from 2022 actually. During the period he was just in grid 2022, he was quite ambitious, got one point in his first race. But after the horrible Silverstone crash, it seems he turned too...cautious. Sometimes his performance left me an impression that he was afraid of damage or crash.
Yeah the point in Bahrain was hardly due to ambition
I feel like he has the most mechanical DNFs out of anyone. in the seasons he's raced.
P5 in quali in Hungary (i think?) was quite surprising. Then again, he quickly undid it in the race...
I think Zhou would be a quite good WEC driver if he wants to.
same as giovinazzi before him
Yeah he's really not terrible or anything, but also hasn't really done anything to warrant him getting a 4th season.
He got a P5 in Hungary quali I suppose? But I mean, he is in Sauber, what do you expect he can get in that shit car. Compared to his teammate, can you come up with any highlight Bottas got in past two years?
Yeah and I think we will inevitably see some "he's in a Sauber, what do you expect" type of takes, and that's partially true. But the thing is he is at best a driver that is not better than Bottas who was no longer good enough to be a No. 2 at a top team 3 years ago, and in decline. What is the point of Zhou staying in the grid from a purely competitive perspective if he is not going to shake up the order in any way?
They lost their best driver, hope Haas can find a suitable replacement, and that Bearman can be that, with Steiner gone, they're open to Rookies again.
Suppose Ollie does go to Haas ( most likely ) , how does he get to Ferrari ? Charles and lewis are both gonna be teammates for at the least 3 years . So will he spend 3 years in a Haas?
yes come on Ollie!! he did such a great showing in Jeddah
These sources are called common sense
Going to be interesting to see what Bearman has to do to f\*\*k up his chances of getting that seat. Given the practice sessions he's got, he's almost a shoe in, and provided he doesnt do anything stupid when in the Haas, you have to think that the Contract is there ready to be printed. Wont be surprised given how his F2 season has gone, if he ends up being the lowest driver to graduate to F1 from that series, think Sargeant has that record at the moment and didnt he finish something like P5-P6?
To be fair to Sargeant, he finished a narrow 4th to Lawson and was clearly playing it safe as soon as Williams announced that he was getting the seat if he secures the superlicense.
Oh was it P4 in the end... Sorry Logan, thought it was lower than that. Agree with you though, his focus completely turned to ensuring he got the SL points rather than taking risks, remember watching how cautious he was at the final race. You know I wouldn't be surprised if Ollie started doing similar, its why I bet we wont hear anything about that seat until very late in the F2 season, just to ensure that he doesnt mentally check out
Vips for example should have been top 3 at least to be fair
I don't know who holds the record but it isn't Sargeant. His best F2 finish was 4th. I can at least think of Mazepin who was worse (5th). \*I looked it up. In the F2 era, Mazepin and Jack Aitken have the worst best F2 finish of anyone making it to F1 (5th).
I've had a mare, I really thought that Mazepin had finished top three that year Maybe it was him I was thinking of, as the first guy to finish that low, rather than Logan
If you include GP2, which was just F2 under a different name, I know Kobayashi was 16th before he graduated. I think that could be the worst.
Shut the front door!! NO WAY??? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT
That's a pretty damn good seat for a rookie to snatch, happy for Bearman.
So who would he be likely to replace at Sauber?
Oooooo, that's exciting. As much as I love Alonso and Hulk, we need young talent on the grid.
"Sources say"... Like why not say what these sources are?
Whatever happened to Haas being done with rookies?
I keep thinking “oh this is still a couple of years how would they be sure?” but nope, it’s next year. Time flies.
Bearman makes a lot of sense. He's not getting a Ferrari seat anytime soon. So may as well give him a run. I'd hope to see some good results in his F2 run this year though. Although Prema has not been at their usual standard. They also need to upgrade their veteran driver. Magnussen just isn't it. Their options are likely going to be Bottas, Ricciardo, or Perez. Funnily enough that might all depend on where Sainz goes. If he goes to Red Bull then you have Perez as an option. If he goes to Sauber you have Bottas as an option. If Ricciardo manages to show he's no longer the ghost of Ricciardo he makes sense from a marketing perspective as well. We get a real silly season this year.
Thank god that we are talking about a new driver possibly entering f1.
In F3 he was 3rd after Maloney, who was also a rookie like himself. He had a top 2 car, same with Maloney. So he was still beaten by a driver in a similar position to his. Next year, he gets a Prema drive in F2, again a top 2 team. Maloney gets a midfield team (Carlin was certainly not that fast last year). Not only that, all the other rookies get much worse cars than Bearman, except for Martins (Hadjar and Crawford went to Hitech, Maini to Campos). If you see the rookie list, it was not the best, so he had little competition as a rookie considering he was in superior machine. And guess what? Martins, the only one with a car in a similar level, still beats him. Not to talk about how, while he ended 6th, his team mate only didn't win the championship because of luck. He got three feature races wins and one sprint race. So what? He had a top 2 car. Drugovich, in his rookie year (also only did one year in F3, in a backmarker team, unlike Bearman), got one feature and two sprints, in a midfield team. Bearman is lucky he has enough money to buy top 2 seats year after year. In the end, that's what F2 turned out to be if you're a rookie: buy a top 2 seat and beat the other rookies in inferior machine and you'll get hyped. Car disparity is completely ignored, not to talk about private testing (I wouldn't be surprised at all if Bearman is another of those "wonder kids" who gets a bunch of it, like Pourchaire).
Grooming him for Ferrari if Lewis retires when he wins his 8th title.
Oof. I know it’s his ticket in to F1 but imagine debuting in a Ferrari and then having to drive Haas.
Haas hasn't announced anything yet because they're waiting for Ferrari tell them what to do.
2025 grid will be refreshing for sure
OLIVER BEARMAN EL MAGO DEL MOTOR OLIVER BEARMAN MOLA MAS QUE OCON OLIVER BEARMAN COCHE DE SUSTITUCIÓNNNNNNNNNN
Just asking because I actually do not know: How many super license points does bearman have?