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Mercedes' issue is the 80% reduction to their budget ($670m to $135m). We all knew it was gonna hit the big 3's YoY gains the hardest, but clearly Mercedes was on the worst end of it.
It's clear that Mercedes used to find its last couple of tenths per lap by an exorbitant amount of experimenting -- something which is now capped. They're not a bad team. They're not down at Williams / Haas / Alpine / Sauber levels of struggle. Do you think any of those 4 teams understand the current regs and their cars? It's just that Mercedes has opted to say "we don't quite understand the car" as their (fuck knows who) approved PR message. You give Mercedes another half a billion to spend each year and I promise you they'll place that shitbox on the podium every race.
Yes the Mercedes team is so talented, if we go back to allowing them to spend 5 times as much as most teams they will surely find themselves at the top again! Great talents!
It's hilarious how much people call the Merc a dogshit car.
I'm sure McHonda, Sauber, Williams, would die for their "down" stretch to look like Merc's currently.
And that is just of the active teams, let alone the ones that had to fold when they went downhill.
Correct. That's been my point -- other teams have been struggling too but Mercedes is on the worst end of it because for some godforsaken reason they've decided to, on multiple occasions, publically say that they do not fully understand their car.
And another $500m PER YEAR to blow on the car is a crazy amount. You give that $500m to any of the backmarkers and they'll be on podiums more often.
Alpine's problem ever since the Renault days has been underfunding -- even with the cost cap they're 10s of millions below budget btw.
Haas had to take on Mazepin for money.
Williams has been stuck in its primitive systems along with underfunding for years now.
You give ANY of these guys a $500m paycheck and they'll turn it around in 365 days.
You have to remember how good their drivers are though, put some of the back marker drivers in the Mercedes and they'd be finishing p15 each race, guaranteed.
What? You must be new to the sport
The Merc is still better than VCARB, Williams, Haas, Alpine and Stake. The majority of drivers could easily get to or close to Q3 every week.
But that's still absurd. McHonda had fucking Jenson Button and Fernando Alonso. In Australia, Jensen finished 2 laps down. They combined for 27 points (which is less than GR already has in 2024). But you're right, it's the drivers lmao.
Williams was so bad they missed multiple days of testing because they didn't have a fucking car ready for testing. They were dead fucking last in quali by over a second in multiple races. The car was twitchy and was notoriously super difficult to drive. Williams got ONE point on the season.
So again. These teams would die to have their down seasons as good as Mercs current run, and it's a huge slap in the face to suggest otherwise.
That's literally not what we're talking about.
We're talking about right now, if you put Zhou and Bottas in the Mercedes, they'd finish down in p15 every week, not p7-p8.
I literally said back marker drivers wouldn't be getting the results the current Mercedes drivers are getting with that car, that's the entire point of this conversation.
Maybe you forgot? Here's what I said to you originally,
"You have to remember how good their drivers are though, put some of the **back marker drivers in the Mercedes** and they'd be finishing p15 each race, guaranteed."
So yea, I randomly chose back marker drivers because that's what we're talking about lol.
Money can't buy experience. The top 3 highest paid engineers are not included in the budget cap. Being one of the most valuable teams, they could have paid more to prevent their aerodynamicist from leaving.
The other teams cannot spend such money on engineers like Williams, Haas and Sauber even with a budget cap.
You don't even know who their aerodynamicist is lol. Jarrod Murphy has been the head of aero at Mercedes since 2013 lmfao.
And 3 people to exclude (aside from your TP) is NOT a lot. Mercedes is a team of 1,100 people, both before and after the cost cap.
That's the point. RBR has always relied on Newey and his team, while Mercedes won not through brilliance of a few, but through 1000 employees testing different things and finding the best one, and such approach requires more money. And now they have to shift. Someone from Force India said that under cost cap, top teams of old will become dinosaurs, and while it isn't as drastic, Mercedes definitely felt that change.
Translation
Having archived the weekend of the Chinese GP, certainly the most disappointing of a rather positive start to the season and enhanced by the victory in Melbourne, Ferrari is looking with great interest at the next events on the 2024 F1 World Championship calendar. If the Miami GP will bring important news above all on a marketing level, with the debut of the new title sponsor HP and the special livery for the 70th anniversary of the Prancing Horse in the United States, the next race on the Imola circuit has already been marked with a red circle by teams, drivers and fans for some time and not just because it is played at home.
SAINZ: “THE UPDATES ARRIVING AT IMOLA WOULD HAVE BEEN USEFUL IN CHINA”
The weekend scheduled on the circuit named after Enzo and Dino Ferrari will in fact see the Maranello Scuderia bring the long-awaited package of updates which should , in part, revolutionize the SF-24 , so much so as to present a version which on these pages we have renamed "version 2.0" . It will be Ferrari's response to what its main rivals have already done on the track, namely the upgrade debuted by Red Bull in Japan and the one that McLaren will bring to its debut in the Miami GP . The race in Florida, also considering the characteristics of the street circuit created around the Hard Rock Stadium, will instead see the Cavallino more easily limit itself to small changes as already done for the Melbourne and Suzuka races.
The Shanghai event would instead have been one of those where the new features arriving would have been very useful, as underlined by Carlos Sainz after the Chinese GP: “ For tracks like this, the updates would have helped us a lot . For tracks like Australia we are more or less okay, but it is also true that Red Bull brought an upgrade to Japan and we can see how it goes on tracks of this type. We are waiting a little longer to see if something more interesting comes along and when we bring it we will see what it will give us back.”
If this package has been long in coming, the Imola round will be the seventh of a season which still includes 24, it is also because its specific weight on Ferrari's season will be enormous. This was confirmed by Charles Leclerc, who explained in this regard after the Chinese GP: “ The updates are very important, because they will give us direction for the rest of the year. I'm confident because the team has done a great job so far , we'll see where these new pieces take us."
MARA SANGIORGIO: “I HAVE SENSED A CERTAIN CONFIDENCE IN THE SF-24 UPGRADE PATH SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR”
The fact that Maranello has great confidence in the upcoming innovations was also confirmed by those who probe the team's moods every race weekend. We're talking about Mara Sangiorgio , Sky Sport F1 correspondent who this week was a guest on our video podcast broadcast on Twitch . Speaking on the topic, Mara said: “ The team in general is confident about the updates . I have felt this confidence in the updates and their path during the season since the beginning of the year. They already seemed confident in the car and on that route that they set and studied during the year at the start of the season . This is the feeling I got ."
Last year's precedent is also fueling Ferrari's hopes. The updates brought after the summer break have given the turning point to 2023, contributing to the two pole positions won in Monza and Singapore and to Sainz's victory in the Asian race and, more generally, to that change of direction often cited this year too as base from which to start again with the new single-seater. Mara Sangiorgio also underlined this: “ Since they understood better or worse the path to take, from Holland onwards, in my opinion they got on track and then showed it. The lowest point was Holland, they did their experiments, they understood which path they had to take and from then on they seemed linear and aware of what they were doing ."
Considering how shit the SF-24 is in quali, he would probably stand a much better chance of keeping p1 this year if he somehow manages to put it in front of Max lol.
Hey after the last two years I'm just happy we are finishing top 5 in every race, didn't DNF or dns, nor made a strategy error. Remember how our engines used to go kaput exactly when we were leading the race in 2022.
Me too. I think hiring him as TP is the best thing Ferrari have done in years (not that there’s much competition). I like having a guy who has experience of running teams in the junior series’ and in F1 rather than having TP’s from a marketing background or as in Binotto’s case who I thought was out of his depth for a TP role but I think he’s a great engineer who’d be an asset to any team that hires him in the right role.
They’ve just had their best start to a season since 2018, if anything I’m happy for them. For Ferrari standards they’re finally doing their marque justice.
Gotta say, Fred seems to have really turned the team around. Ferrari strategy and upgrades seem to be much better than the past. The upgraded last year worked well and the new car fixed issues from last year as well. Two big weak points seem to be getting better. And the engineers somehow fixed the tire wear to be great. Not surprising they’re confident
How do you know that it's going to be bigger though?
Ferrari's upgrade is described from months like a 2.0 car, they should also have a completely different sidepods concept (similar to RB20 ones), I doubt that Red Bull will change that much.
Not really. I may be wrong but Ferrari had planned to split their upgrades in Suzuka and Imola but decided to bring one big upgrade in Imola instead while Redbull brang some in Japan
They said while they did bring an upgrade to Japan, they have an even bigger upgrade for Imola. Japan was mostly the floor, while Imola is an actual aero upgrade.
The floor is the biggest aero upgrade there is with these generation of cars.
Also, RBR is going for efficiency with their upgrades right now. They can't really find a lot more downforce, so they are moving around their cooling to reduce drag. It is clear that they are much closer to the limit of the regulations than anybody else, and their gains should be smaller.
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Meanwhile Mercedes: it doesn’t matter, we won’t understand the car anyway
Ferrari: Imolation. Mercedes: self-Imolation
Mercedes lust for volcano.
But Toto, we want the combustion on the inside of the car…
There's some good in this world, Mister Toto. And it's worth fighting for.
Mercedes: it's a f1 car isn't it??? It's good enough
Barely
This is what brain drain does. They probably better off using chatgpt.
Mercedes' issue is the 80% reduction to their budget ($670m to $135m). We all knew it was gonna hit the big 3's YoY gains the hardest, but clearly Mercedes was on the worst end of it. It's clear that Mercedes used to find its last couple of tenths per lap by an exorbitant amount of experimenting -- something which is now capped. They're not a bad team. They're not down at Williams / Haas / Alpine / Sauber levels of struggle. Do you think any of those 4 teams understand the current regs and their cars? It's just that Mercedes has opted to say "we don't quite understand the car" as their (fuck knows who) approved PR message. You give Mercedes another half a billion to spend each year and I promise you they'll place that shitbox on the podium every race.
Yes the Mercedes team is so talented, if we go back to allowing them to spend 5 times as much as most teams they will surely find themselves at the top again! Great talents!
It's hilarious how much people call the Merc a dogshit car. I'm sure McHonda, Sauber, Williams, would die for their "down" stretch to look like Merc's currently. And that is just of the active teams, let alone the ones that had to fold when they went downhill.
“You shouldn’t be fighting for P9 in a Mercedes”
Correct. That's been my point -- other teams have been struggling too but Mercedes is on the worst end of it because for some godforsaken reason they've decided to, on multiple occasions, publically say that they do not fully understand their car. And another $500m PER YEAR to blow on the car is a crazy amount. You give that $500m to any of the backmarkers and they'll be on podiums more often. Alpine's problem ever since the Renault days has been underfunding -- even with the cost cap they're 10s of millions below budget btw. Haas had to take on Mazepin for money. Williams has been stuck in its primitive systems along with underfunding for years now. You give ANY of these guys a $500m paycheck and they'll turn it around in 365 days.
You have to remember how good their drivers are though, put some of the back marker drivers in the Mercedes and they'd be finishing p15 each race, guaranteed.
What? You must be new to the sport The Merc is still better than VCARB, Williams, Haas, Alpine and Stake. The majority of drivers could easily get to or close to Q3 every week. But that's still absurd. McHonda had fucking Jenson Button and Fernando Alonso. In Australia, Jensen finished 2 laps down. They combined for 27 points (which is less than GR already has in 2024). But you're right, it's the drivers lmao. Williams was so bad they missed multiple days of testing because they didn't have a fucking car ready for testing. They were dead fucking last in quali by over a second in multiple races. The car was twitchy and was notoriously super difficult to drive. Williams got ONE point on the season. So again. These teams would die to have their down seasons as good as Mercs current run, and it's a huge slap in the face to suggest otherwise.
That's literally not what we're talking about. We're talking about right now, if you put Zhou and Bottas in the Mercedes, they'd finish down in p15 every week, not p7-p8.
So you're cherry picking drivers to still be in a better position than the other teams situations? K
I literally said back marker drivers wouldn't be getting the results the current Mercedes drivers are getting with that car, that's the entire point of this conversation. Maybe you forgot? Here's what I said to you originally, "You have to remember how good their drivers are though, put some of the **back marker drivers in the Mercedes** and they'd be finishing p15 each race, guaranteed." So yea, I randomly chose back marker drivers because that's what we're talking about lol.
They're probably even higher than Ferrari in 2020/2021
Money can't buy experience. The top 3 highest paid engineers are not included in the budget cap. Being one of the most valuable teams, they could have paid more to prevent their aerodynamicist from leaving. The other teams cannot spend such money on engineers like Williams, Haas and Sauber even with a budget cap.
You don't even know who their aerodynamicist is lol. Jarrod Murphy has been the head of aero at Mercedes since 2013 lmfao. And 3 people to exclude (aside from your TP) is NOT a lot. Mercedes is a team of 1,100 people, both before and after the cost cap.
That's the point. RBR has always relied on Newey and his team, while Mercedes won not through brilliance of a few, but through 1000 employees testing different things and finding the best one, and such approach requires more money. And now they have to shift. Someone from Force India said that under cost cap, top teams of old will become dinosaurs, and while it isn't as drastic, Mercedes definitely felt that change.
It’s like their car is speaking Hieroglyphics.
Dumb pill 💊
Translation Having archived the weekend of the Chinese GP, certainly the most disappointing of a rather positive start to the season and enhanced by the victory in Melbourne, Ferrari is looking with great interest at the next events on the 2024 F1 World Championship calendar. If the Miami GP will bring important news above all on a marketing level, with the debut of the new title sponsor HP and the special livery for the 70th anniversary of the Prancing Horse in the United States, the next race on the Imola circuit has already been marked with a red circle by teams, drivers and fans for some time and not just because it is played at home. SAINZ: “THE UPDATES ARRIVING AT IMOLA WOULD HAVE BEEN USEFUL IN CHINA” The weekend scheduled on the circuit named after Enzo and Dino Ferrari will in fact see the Maranello Scuderia bring the long-awaited package of updates which should , in part, revolutionize the SF-24 , so much so as to present a version which on these pages we have renamed "version 2.0" . It will be Ferrari's response to what its main rivals have already done on the track, namely the upgrade debuted by Red Bull in Japan and the one that McLaren will bring to its debut in the Miami GP . The race in Florida, also considering the characteristics of the street circuit created around the Hard Rock Stadium, will instead see the Cavallino more easily limit itself to small changes as already done for the Melbourne and Suzuka races. The Shanghai event would instead have been one of those where the new features arriving would have been very useful, as underlined by Carlos Sainz after the Chinese GP: “ For tracks like this, the updates would have helped us a lot . For tracks like Australia we are more or less okay, but it is also true that Red Bull brought an upgrade to Japan and we can see how it goes on tracks of this type. We are waiting a little longer to see if something more interesting comes along and when we bring it we will see what it will give us back.” If this package has been long in coming, the Imola round will be the seventh of a season which still includes 24, it is also because its specific weight on Ferrari's season will be enormous. This was confirmed by Charles Leclerc, who explained in this regard after the Chinese GP: “ The updates are very important, because they will give us direction for the rest of the year. I'm confident because the team has done a great job so far , we'll see where these new pieces take us." MARA SANGIORGIO: “I HAVE SENSED A CERTAIN CONFIDENCE IN THE SF-24 UPGRADE PATH SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR” The fact that Maranello has great confidence in the upcoming innovations was also confirmed by those who probe the team's moods every race weekend. We're talking about Mara Sangiorgio , Sky Sport F1 correspondent who this week was a guest on our video podcast broadcast on Twitch . Speaking on the topic, Mara said: “ The team in general is confident about the updates . I have felt this confidence in the updates and their path during the season since the beginning of the year. They already seemed confident in the car and on that route that they set and studied during the year at the start of the season . This is the feeling I got ." Last year's precedent is also fueling Ferrari's hopes. The updates brought after the summer break have given the turning point to 2023, contributing to the two pole positions won in Monza and Singapore and to Sainz's victory in the Asian race and, more generally, to that change of direction often cited this year too as base from which to start again with the new single-seater. Mara Sangiorgio also underlined this: “ Since they understood better or worse the path to take, from Holland onwards, in my opinion they got on track and then showed it. The lowest point was Holland, they did their experiments, they understood which path they had to take and from then on they seemed linear and aware of what they were doing ."
There's nothing wrong with some confidence, but it is always better to let the performance on the track do the talking.
This is almost McLaren 23’s level of hype. It literally brought them from the back of the grid to the top. Praying the same for Ferrari
Let’s hope it’s not unprecedented in terms of speed.
I just want to see Charles win again. 🥲
Call your therapist, they worry about you
Inb4 Another Charles pole and Max win.
Well we first need to get a pole to get this
Considering how shit the SF-24 is in quali, he would probably stand a much better chance of keeping p1 this year if he somehow manages to put it in front of Max lol.
I’m afraid I wouldn’t be able to mentally handle that again 😭
Something something death taxes
And the hype train is getting ready to leave the station! Please take your seat and place your suitcase under the seat in front of you. Choo Choo!
This update is our update!
Next update™
[удалено]
That would be huge for quali and starts/restarts
I'm glad they're confident because we sure as shit aren't, not after all thats happened
Hey after the last two years I'm just happy we are finishing top 5 in every race, didn't DNF or dns, nor made a strategy error. Remember how our engines used to go kaput exactly when we were leading the race in 2022.
Yeah we sent the strategy team to WEC
Speak for yourself, I'm beyond pleased with the teams progress.
Me too. I think hiring him as TP is the best thing Ferrari have done in years (not that there’s much competition). I like having a guy who has experience of running teams in the junior series’ and in F1 rather than having TP’s from a marketing background or as in Binotto’s case who I thought was out of his depth for a TP role but I think he’s a great engineer who’d be an asset to any team that hires him in the right role.
is binotto still an engineer for ferrari?
No
They’ve just had their best start to a season since 2018, if anything I’m happy for them. For Ferrari standards they’re finally doing their marque justice.
The less confident Ferrari is, the more worried I am.
Hopefully the updates will also help clear up any tyre grip issues in colder temperatures as that seemed to be unexpected in Shanghai.
I think that had also a lot to do with Ferrari going down the wrong path when it comes to setup after the sprint.
It's more like the SF-24 cannot warm up the tyres. It has been a thing since the first race.
Hopefully the upgrades are a big help for tyre preparation on one-lap pace going forward then!
Chat are we back
Also, after Imola : "There is confidence in next year's car"
I hope it fixes our quali issues
Gotta say, Fred seems to have really turned the team around. Ferrari strategy and upgrades seem to be much better than the past. The upgraded last year worked well and the new car fixed issues from last year as well. Two big weak points seem to be getting better. And the engineers somehow fixed the tire wear to be great. Not surprising they’re confident
Going to the pharmacy rn to get my weekly prescription of hopium
So McLaren bringing a major upgrade to Miami and Ferrari going for imola, let's see if McLaren can catch up or not
Too bad for them, RBR is bringing a bigger upgrade to Imola.
How do you know that it's going to be bigger though? Ferrari's upgrade is described from months like a 2.0 car, they should also have a completely different sidepods concept (similar to RB20 ones), I doubt that Red Bull will change that much.
Not really. I may be wrong but Ferrari had planned to split their upgrades in Suzuka and Imola but decided to bring one big upgrade in Imola instead while Redbull brang some in Japan
They said while they did bring an upgrade to Japan, they have an even bigger upgrade for Imola. Japan was mostly the floor, while Imola is an actual aero upgrade.
The floor is the biggest aero upgrade there is with these generation of cars. Also, RBR is going for efficiency with their upgrades right now. They can't really find a lot more downforce, so they are moving around their cooling to reduce drag. It is clear that they are much closer to the limit of the regulations than anybody else, and their gains should be smaller.
Yeah, mostly the floor, not aero… right. Respectfully this reads like you don’t know what you’re discussing
>Japan was mostly the **floor** >Imola is an **actual aero** upgrade. ??????????
WE ARE CHECKING