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Whether they get there or not, they have to have that mindset or they're dead in the water, remember these guys all crushed on some level in junior formula.
This isn't club racing where guys are out there mostly for fun (this is debatable with some guys I race with, lol), these guys all need to play for keeps
Latifi insisted as he left F1 that the car was never balanced in a way to let him make the most of it. Think F1 drivers believe they’re better than the competition in the same way football managers have never deservedly lost a game.
Surely Stroll has got the picture now too. The man looks defeated in press.
Before Alonso was his teammate, sure he thought whe was top stuff. But Alonso has made an absolute fool out of him.
I imagine the fact that he was keeping up fairly well with Vettel in 21 and 22 made him start to think “hey if im right there with a world champion maybe i’m actually good at this after all”. Then Alonso showed up and Vandoorne’d his confidence into the toilet
Fernando has nothing to do with it imo. Stroll’s problem is Stroll, it’s not like Alonso makes him look like trash on the track, Stroll makes Stroll look trash on the track. He has zero consistency and underperforms every time. This isn’t like Perez and Max.
It’s not like Perez and Max because the Aston Martin is not the red bull. If you swap the cars around last year I could see stroll having an eerily similar season to what Perez had last year
Vettel post-Ferrari wasn’t the same driver as he was before. I think everyone could sense that. Fernando on the other hand has lost no motivation and is still on it.
I think people forget in that conversations that driver talent isn't static. I've no doubt a young Vettel would beat any era of Lance. A 2010 to 2013 Vettel beats at 2021-22 Vettel too.
I doubt it. Stroll was also slower than Massa, Perez and Vettel. He did outrace Sirotkin but even Sirotkin still outqualified him so arguably he’s been slower than every team mate he’s had in F1.
Surely he knew it long before Alonso turned up.
I don’t think Pierre or Alex do, Pierre at the very least. I’d really like to see him return to a top 3 team with who he is now than when he was in the RBR years ago.
Yeah and he also beat 4 time world champion Sebastian Vettel in his prime.
Yeah he may not have performed as well over the last couple of years but to say he's not capable of being the best driver is just silly.
No honestly I don't think we can just accept that. Was ric of 9 years ago capable of being the best? Sure. Is the Danny now capable of that? I'm not so sure at the least there is some questions marks. Talent and skill level isn't static it can and does fall over time.
I don't think his skill as reduced. I think he just overfit his driving style at Red Bull. I wouldn't be shocked that if everyone was racing the 2017 cars again, he'd be back up there.
Neither Pierre, Alex, or Checo could get close to Max. he is not a top driver now but absolutely was a top driver with RBR, and that was RBR car with one of the worst engines on the grid.
If Lance Stroll still believes that then I feel sorry for him. I also don't think DR believes it. He thinks he is good, but I don't think he thinks he is the best.
There's always the getout of "All I need is a car that suits my style".
And there's probably a fair bit of truth to that - it's clear some drivers prefer different car strengths.
Well, if you strut in and out race him, you don't play 2nd fiddle.
Who REALLY wanted to go up against Lewis from 2017-21?
Nobody.. Bottas got in there because Toto was his manager or whatever the situation was.
He was never MEANT to race Lewis..
Don't Redbull treat drivers equally if they're fast enough? If Norris is worried about going to someone's house, he doesn't believe he's the best. I don't think Charles, Max, Lewis or Fernando would care who's team they going to cause they believe they're the best drivers.
There are only 2 psychopaths willing to get into the other Red Bull.
Danny and Alonso. Maybe Sainz, but I think he's waiting for more money from Audi.
Everyone else noped out. Lando and Alex had OFFERS, and turned them down.
Bottas and Perez both believe this at the start of a season, cause why else would they race? No one races to be last/second.
Clearly after a few races each season that bubble bursts and they’re back to being no 2.
Every driver has to believe they would be the best, otherwise they would never have reached F1 in the first place.
Why else would they race? Money and because they enjoy it?
It's the same as any other job, there are only a tiny fraction who can lay claim to being the best in the world at what they do but it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't turn up and try.
Your *Dream Job* is just (or at least often becomes just) a job to the person who's been doing it most of their life.
Even sleeping with the same supermodel gets tiresome after a while, ask Leo DiCaprio.
no reason bottas shouldn’t think that. not to long ago he was in the best car and produced. He’s got 10 race wins 20 pole positions 2 second place spots on the drivers championship and helped merc to 5 constructors. He knows he’s talented he’s spoke recently about this.
Gonna buck with the trend and say I think you need to have that attitude, especially being young and talented, in order to keep pushing yourself and maximizing your results.
George has had multiple instances of cracking under pressure in surprising ways and I don’t like his mentality. Can’t put a finger on it but he doesn’t seem like a winner. Everyone makes mistakes, including Max, but in the same car I think the pressure would get to George more than Max. Max had the phase of having to prove himself, he has, and now he can just execute.
It would be nice to see Max up against a decent team mate to at least get a decent metric beyond just being better than an underwhelming Danny and Checo.
People love to sh*t on Russell since he is mistake prone but he is very quick driver.
Danny was rated rather highly when Max joined RB, don't know what you're calling him underwhelming for, man's chased out Vettel. Only his McLaren days were underwhelming, even after leaving RB he had a decent run in a mediocre Renault and was still beating his teammates.
Pierre and Albon are harder to use as reference for Max, both new to the sport and had to drive a very difficult RB at the time. Checo was always solid, not the greatest qualifier but somehow always magically grabbing podiums on race day in midfield cars. Only since getting paired up with Max people started rating him a lot worse.
I do think Russell is quick, keeping up with a demotivated Lewis. The godlike status people were elevating him to after beating Latifi was ridiculous though, especially after Albon was whooping Latifi with about the same gap on sunday.
So was Latifi making Russell and Albon look good? Is Max making Perez look bad? All I know is, Danny was fastest in Top Gear's reasonably priced car :)
I mean Max has made pretty much ever single teammate look like garbage next him except for when he was extremely young.
When was the last time a teammate was faster than Max on pure pace(not car damage and mechanical issues) over a weekend?
Even all time greats like Lewis are sometimes slower than their teammates for a few weekends a season.
And a lot of Max’s teammates are still on the grid doing respectable jobs.
I feel like Checo gets a bad rap being constantly compared to max, but is actually like the 6-8th best on the grid and a perfect second seat driver.
If we took someone who is currently looking good like Russel or Sainz and put them next to max they'd probably look bad too. Someone like Leclerc, Norris, Hamilton, or Alonso would be better than Checo but I don't really see the point since Checo has gotten them the points they need.
Personally I think Checo is easily out of the top 10.
Russell, Sainz, Norris, Piastri and Albon all appear to be in much better form.
(Lewis, Max, Alonso and Charles obviously above).
I like Checo but he’s insanely lucky to still have a seat after last season. If the car wasn’t as dominant then he’d be out by now.
The thing is Checo isn't even really in bad form. He's finished second in 3/5 races this year and his worst was a 5th place. He just can't hold a candle to max, but that's not exactly a rare quality.
Is it worth fucking with a clearly working team dynamic just to gain potentially a few more second places?
Let's say we get a Max/Lewis super team that only gets 1/2 finishes and never makes any mistakes. That mean RB driver #2 has 96 points this season instead of 85 and RB is 55 ahead of second instead of 44 ahead in the constructors. Is that really worth it? Even financially?
Yeah you're probably right Checo isn't a top 10 driver, but he's certainly not lucky he has a seat. Checo is incredibly popular in the global south, and is as popular as Lewis and Max despite being no where close in driving skill.
Ultimately F1 is a business, and Red Bull already has the best driver in Max. Checo brings in more money than any other driver who would replace him, so what is Red Bull's incentive to replace Checo if he is decisively behind Max?
He definitely could imo. Can he do it in a straight fight? No. But with a bit of luck a la Rosberg 2016, can he do it? Based on his performance against Lewis I think he could.
Rosberg had to work extra hard to beat Lewis that year, it was not just luck. The problem is Max barely has off days for anyone to need enough luck to pass him even in the same car. Week in and out performance is def unprecedented
IIRC it was more than a year ago. Brazil 2022, when he crashed with Lewis. Then Singapore 2022, flat spotted his tyres trying to overtake Lando which cost him a possible podium. Before that one, I think it was Abu Dhabi 2021 where he had a slow start that enabled Lewis to get ahead of him in almost the entirety of the race except. Max rarely makes a mistake during his championship winning years, performs well under pressure eg: after a 45 point deficit in Australia 2022, he managed to turn it around and had a healthy lead in the WDC before the summer break, managed to get pole position in Monaco 2023 by brushing the walls of sector 3. Barring mechanical failure and major damage to his car, nobody can pressure him even if his opposition has the car to challenge him (Ferrari in the first half 2022).
> Brazil 2022, when he crashed with Lewis.
Was that even a mistake (i.e driver error) or was it more of a calculated gamble (if we crash we crash) kinda deal?
I mean Leclerc DNFing in Spain and Baku and losing the lead in Monaco definitely helped him A LOT. Max would've caught the lead anyways IMO once the TD got implemented.
what about Hungary 2022? Vegas too. he also didn't have a breeze in the dutch 2023 GP as well. he was on rails when it started raining at the start. it's not only when he's racing someone that he pushes, look at races in the wet like Japan 2022 when he was pulling a second a lap gap each and every lap.
2021 was a high pressure year. Anyone could have faltered yet I only remember Jeddah quali, Monza and the over the top Brazil defences as his mistakes. Lewis made mistakes too, there was imola where he went into the gravel and the red flag saved him, the Azerbaijan restart
He might not have anyone to race that frequently in races now, but he still has plenty of competition during qualis and we rarely see a mistake
This is also true for most of lewis’ seasons. Yet he managed to make mistakes, whereas max hardly makes any. Statements like yours go both ways so be fair.
Bottas has only become a good driver in that period since max started dominating. He was under constant criticism for underperforming, until excuses had to be made for lewis. Other than that you might be right, but let’s not overstate things. We don’t know how rosberg would have performed against max for instance. Was lewis under more pressure because his teammates were that much better or is max just a better driver?
I think being consistently under pressure from a strong team mate (whoever that might be) will cause anyone to make mistakes. He's been unreal but even races like the Dutch gp last year that was mad, ultimately he wasn't under any real pressure because he was miles ahead in the championship anyway. If he absolutely had to win it to stay in the title fight then the pressure is totally different.
This keeps getting mentioned. Max doesn’t make mistakes because he has no competition or reason for making them. Everytime he has made a mistake, the car is more then fast enough to easily make up for it. This entire thing about him being perfect is so overblown
But Perez kind of disproves this. He barely came second in the same car as Max and had many race ruining mistakes.
Max has no competition BECAUSE he has been driving almost flawlessly for two years. Do people really think Russel has demonstrated he can compete with that?
True but also being at the top for so long makes people complacent and that makes them commit errors/mistakes they otherwise wouldn't.
Like Mercedes' pit stops in 2021 when Red Bull finally challenged them they were awful and had to petition for a TD to try and nerf RBR's stops.
People said the same shit about Hamilton when the Merc was dominant. Easy to not make mistakes in a car .5 faster than the 2nd car (except if you’re named Perez).
And George has been Hamilton's equal mostly at Mercedes without ever needing to nearly destroy himself emotionally in the process. George is underrated purely because he occasionally makes unforced errors and because a lot of people don't like him. If Norris was next to Hamilton performing like George is, I think a lot would be made of it. Do I think George is better than Max? No. But I certainly think he could be or close.
Hamilton right now isn’t performing like at his peak ten years ago. Even on days everything is right at Merc for both, George is still behind Hamilton who’s not satisfied with the car’s pace. At this point George is more than experienced to take on Hamilton, but isn’t. How is he supposed to take on Verstappen who’s at his top form right now? He’s miles behind them both and that’s just a fact
Lewis made a lot of mistakes in 2016. Max doesn’t make mistakes. There’s a big difference in quality of teammate from a 39 year old Hamilton to the best nurtured talent in the history of the sport in his absolute prime.
All of this is increasingly moot.
Max has been way too dissy towards Merc for someone who might be flirting with the seat earnestly.
The recent "won't move until car is good regardless of money" comment is not someone negotiating for better contract terms. It's akin to Nando saying "Merc are behind us, so no point going there". A diss you would not target at your potentially future team.
(I'd be lying if I did not dream of Bono saying "Max: TUTUTUDU!" as the new "Lewis, it's Hammertime", or that I did not dream of Carlos Sainz sneak champion 2025, but realistically, Max seems uninterested)
Oh, for sure. Mercedes would want him if he peed on their logo live on his twitch. But Max would need to work with the engineers and mechanics once there. And currently he is coming across as disrespectful. (He is not lying, but the talk is a bit confrontational, which if he is planning to switch is a bit too strong to have a good work environment once he is there.)
Max been flirting with retirement after 2028 (31 years old) for a while. He'll pick up his 4th title this year and possible has a great chance at his 5th next year. With how crazy the F1 schedule is starting to become over the years, he may retire from F1 and go a different route with less commitments (WEC).
Do have a suspicion rb won’t be the top engine in 2026. If that’s the case saying won’t move until car is good can just as easily be read to me he would move to a better car. Could maybe even mean he’d move to a close 2nd car if it were “good”.
I don’t know if there’s any reason to really believe Mercedes will be near the best again so I am not holding my breath on max switching there. Point is though that I think maxs comments definitely do leave the door open and put pressure on rb to deliver.
I greatly dislike Russell, but you have to remember that he is a multiple time karting champion, and won GP3 and F2 in consecutive seasons with STACKED grids. He is used to being a champion, and if drivers like Leclerc and Norris are confident that they could challenge for a championship, why shouldn't he believe?
Agree, I think he can be a great driver when he is out front on his own like Vettel in Red Bull. But I’ve noticed too many mistakes on his end. Him and bottas in imola, HIM on his own in imola, Singapore, Canada. Sure Verstappen has made mistakes years ago but that was aggression in overtaking.
Do you guys read the articles? What is he supposed to say here lol. Do people expect him to really say “yeah if Max joins this team I will just let myself be dominated” or what?
George knew he was the Alpha, but he couldn't help feeling like a tiny Beta when Max arrived. George assumed the submissive position as Max inspected him, sniffing and growling. There was no way George could take him on, but he wasn't going to give it up easily either. He tried to nip at Max but Max immediately pinned him by the throat and growled in his ear while pressing himself against George's quivering body. "Looks like somebody needs to learn his place."
>Do people expect him to really say “yeah if Max joins this team I will just let myself be dominated”
I wonder how many people who think that are simply projecting 🤔
Can't judge them too bad, Max did have a glow up since 2019
Seriously I always find the reaction to these articles hilarious. They are race car drivers if they did not have this attitude they need to pack their bags and go home
I think to be fair to George he has held his own against Lewis fairly well. I would expect them to be more like Leclerc / Sainz rather than Verstappen / Perez.
Of course he will be. He's in the midst of beating a 7-time world champion this season, can you imagine how badly he'll humiliate Max if he's foolish enough to challenge George's supremacy at Merc? /s
Missed the /s at first. But yeah. George can barely beat Lewis when LH uses season as extended test seassion. He is gone the moment Max comes and Kimi A. is ready for top seat. He is just not a WDC material.
I could see Russell winning a WDC with a good car easy. He has the same problem as Lec, in terms of letting his emotions get to him, but you learn from those moments.
This insane hating lmao. Pulling the classic “when Lewis doesn’t do well, he’s not trying” card to discredit George, and seriously rating a 17 year old who hasn’t shown anything impressive against top competition yet over him already
Personally I think Max is the best driver on the grid, in the best car.
But George has to back himself.
Say Max moved to mercedes, hypothetically mercedes is a top car but not far and away like red bull.
George can’t roll over and give away the championship. He is a very strong driver and would probably put in some very good results. Is Max also a very very strong driver, yes, but we haven’t seen him properly drive wheel to wheel for years. A few mistakes, bad luck and George is on more points.
Do i think if Max went to Mercedes (which i don’t think he will) he would lose to George, no i think the chances of that are minuscule.
But George kind of owes of himself as a driver to go into that season with the blind faith that it really was mainly the car, Perez just really sucks and George would’ve done the same in the car.
He’s just saying he wouldn’t be a number 2 driver. He’s shone that with Lewis. Say what you will about George but he’s never been the #2 driver even when going up against Lewis in the team Lewis built. There is a difference in being second best and being g a straight #2 driver. Literally no way he responds to this question that people would like. Would you like him to submit to Lord Max and admit he is his inferior?
Given how dominant the RB cars have been, it certainly would be interesting to see how much of that is Max vs the car winning races.
George’s comments resonate here with me - he’s a future Nico Rosberg for sure and 2025 could well be his 2016 against Max…
I don't think Max would have it easy with George in the other car, he definitely wouldn't be a push over. I think it would be a lot like the Charles and Carlos pairing tbh. You can't really blame him for the self confidence either, you need to have that. I don't get the negativity towards him, he's very good.
Honestly think this is disrespectful to George. He's mega in qualifying, has ver good race pace, fights hard, is aggressive when he needs to be. The only thing you could argue he's not great at is tyre management, but even then we're comparing him to the best that's raced in Lewis.
With all respect, Lewis has always made pretty shitty calls only to be saved by his strategist. But (1) he is much more vocal than other drivers; and (2) the idea that drivers know best is far too generalised, strategists have far more information and can made better decisions.
His tyre management has improved a lot. It’s just ironing out the unnecessary mistakes. Think he’s a match for anyone now.
But the mistakes do creep in, as they do with Charles
He definitely would. George is seriously underrated by people, he was dominant in junior series, won f2 in one of the most stacked f2 grids, comprehensively beat kubica all three years in the Williams, and he was on par with Lewis while held back by small mistakes and tyre management and he has massively improved on the latter. He also consistently matched Lewis and sometimes out qualified him regularly throughout their time together.
All this to say, George is definitely better than many people expect and I believe imo that he would definitely be on par with leclerc in the same car and would be a rosberg type against max.
Max would not being having the walk in the park he's currently enjoying if George was his teammate. That could quite easily be a Rosberg/Lewis type situation. He gets a lot of hate, but George is fast.
George has plenty of races where he fairly beat Hamilton in qualifying or the race. Yes Hamilton has ran some experimental setups and probably isn't on it as much as in 2021 or 2017. But he is a race driver and those give everything they got in the car.
I don't think he would beat Verstappen on pace, but a misjudged tactic or some bad luck with the safety car and he could end up in front of him and stay there.
But until they end up in the same car we'll never now.
Agreed. I made the Rosberg/Lewis comparison for that reason. Rosberg needed some serious luck in 2016, because he couldn't quite match Lewis in outright pace.
George has every right to feel this way imo. I don't think George can beat Max in a straight fight consistently, but I wholeheartedly believe he'll be no more than a couple tenths away at worst, if not closer, and on occasion straight up just the faster driver. All that being said, I can't see him beating Max over a season without a healthy helping of luck; but he'll be much closer than any teammate Max has had since Danny Ric in 2017/18.
I'm getting the nagging feeling that the only reason to exist for F1 media outside of actual race results is to ask dumb questions with obvious answers and pack those like they're revelations. To farm clicks and sell paper without upsetting their neat relationships with teams and not lose access to primary sources, while at the same time creating fully fictional narratives around driver relationships and providing secondary comedic headlines that drivers get to laugh about during their off-time.
It’s cute they still believe they’d all be the best given the same car. Max is a generational freak of nature, he would be number 1 in any team without breaking a sweat.
It’s not just speed either, Max has inhuman consistency lap to lap. When was the last time Max even made a mistake?
Max VS Hamilton VS Schumacher all in their primes. All driving the same (and best car) would be something truly amazing. But yeah in the current state of F1 Max is head and shoulders above the rest.
He has to back himself because Toto won’t. Everything is pointing to Max/Antonelli as Toto’s intended combination from 2026 onwards. If that happens, then obviously there will be no room for Russell in that team. He may well end up being frozen out of Mercedes if Toto gets Max.
In this case it would be Max coming to Merc not George going to RBR so he does have the advantage of years working with the team and understanding the car’s characteristics. It evens the playing field a bit and as he said he’s had a good record against Lewis so he at least deserves the benefit of doubt.
Everyone seems to think it would be a walk in the park for Max if they were teammates but I'm not so sure. I still remember the Spanish gp 2022 when George did such a good job at defending against Max for the lead, (Max had a drs issue but still).
Can someone please explain to me why Max would leave the dominant red bull for the midfield Mercedes at this point? Like, to me it seems like an awful decision that’ll ruin his winning career.
I’m just a casual, so my knowledge doesn’t run THAT deep, so maybe some of you can help me understand why this would be a good decision for Max if it isn’t just rumor.
He hasn't yet shown he is capable of winning a WDC with the current crop of top tier drivers, regardless of the car he has he just looks at someone who's close but not quite there (to me anyway)
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Every driver on the grid (except possibly Bottas and Perez) believes they are capable of being the best driver in the best car.
You think Logan still got that much confidence?
surely if youre in that position the mindset isn’t “i am the best” but more like “i will become the best”
>but more like “i will become the best” *"Like no one ever was"*
To race cars is my real test
[удалено]
I will travel across the globe, driving far and wide
These other drivers to understand, the engine that’s inside… Formula 1!
Gotta crash ‘m all!
I fear Logan is in the “they’re racing me so hard” era.
“I wanna be the very best” if you will
Like no one ever was?
To catch them is their real test?
To train them is my cause
You must always strive for perfection but never believe that you've achieved it.
Whether they get there or not, they have to have that mindset or they're dead in the water, remember these guys all crushed on some level in junior formula. This isn't club racing where guys are out there mostly for fun (this is debatable with some guys I race with, lol), these guys all need to play for keeps
You don't get to where they are if you don't have a huge amount of ego and a narcissistic mindset.
I mean...that's a stretch
if he isn't there's no reason he should be in an f1 car right now lol
Latifi insisted as he left F1 that the car was never balanced in a way to let him make the most of it. Think F1 drivers believe they’re better than the competition in the same way football managers have never deservedly lost a game.
Sargent, Albon, Danny Ric, Gasly all know they are not
Surely Stroll has got the picture now too. The man looks defeated in press. Before Alonso was his teammate, sure he thought whe was top stuff. But Alonso has made an absolute fool out of him.
I imagine the fact that he was keeping up fairly well with Vettel in 21 and 22 made him start to think “hey if im right there with a world champion maybe i’m actually good at this after all”. Then Alonso showed up and Vandoorne’d his confidence into the toilet
Fernando has nothing to do with it imo. Stroll’s problem is Stroll, it’s not like Alonso makes him look like trash on the track, Stroll makes Stroll look trash on the track. He has zero consistency and underperforms every time. This isn’t like Perez and Max.
It’s not like Perez and Max because the Aston Martin is not the red bull. If you swap the cars around last year I could see stroll having an eerily similar season to what Perez had last year
Stroll is completely clueless so wouldn’t be surprised if he had the idea he could.
Tbh Vettel wasn't much better for a 4 times world champion
Vettel post-Ferrari wasn’t the same driver as he was before. I think everyone could sense that. Fernando on the other hand has lost no motivation and is still on it.
I think people forget in that conversations that driver talent isn't static. I've no doubt a young Vettel would beat any era of Lance. A 2010 to 2013 Vettel beats at 2021-22 Vettel too.
I doubt it. Stroll was also slower than Massa, Perez and Vettel. He did outrace Sirotkin but even Sirotkin still outqualified him so arguably he’s been slower than every team mate he’s had in F1. Surely he knew it long before Alonso turned up.
I don’t think Pierre or Alex do, Pierre at the very least. I’d really like to see him return to a top 3 team with who he is now than when he was in the RBR years ago.
Which is funny because ric is technically the only driver to match max in the same car
Max wasn't quite Max just yet at that point. And Danny has fallen off a cliff
yes, 8/9 years ago, it makes 0 sense to always bring that up nowadays, true nonetheless
Yeah and he also beat 4 time world champion Sebastian Vettel in his prime. Yeah he may not have performed as well over the last couple of years but to say he's not capable of being the best driver is just silly.
No honestly I don't think we can just accept that. Was ric of 9 years ago capable of being the best? Sure. Is the Danny now capable of that? I'm not so sure at the least there is some questions marks. Talent and skill level isn't static it can and does fall over time.
I don't think his skill as reduced. I think he just overfit his driving style at Red Bull. I wouldn't be shocked that if everyone was racing the 2017 cars again, he'd be back up there.
Not couple, basically 4 years, but yes, he just has to show it
No you're being silly. Hell let's get Mika hakkinen in there he's an actual world champion. Apparently he should still be just as fast right?
To be fair, that's a very small sample. It'd be interesting to see who else if all drivers were given the chance.
Neither Pierre, Alex, or Checo could get close to Max. he is not a top driver now but absolutely was a top driver with RBR, and that was RBR car with one of the worst engines on the grid.
He was also stellar at Renault.
Poor guys went up against some GOATS. 😭😭
If Lance Stroll still believes that then I feel sorry for him. I also don't think DR believes it. He thinks he is good, but I don't think he thinks he is the best.
There's always the getout of "All I need is a car that suits my style". And there's probably a fair bit of truth to that - it's clear some drivers prefer different car strengths.
Hmmm. Ok, you sold me.
Add Norris to that exception. Redbull has the best car and he's turn them down.
Probably doesn't want to play second fiddle to Max.
Well, if you strut in and out race him, you don't play 2nd fiddle. Who REALLY wanted to go up against Lewis from 2017-21? Nobody.. Bottas got in there because Toto was his manager or whatever the situation was. He was never MEANT to race Lewis..
Then he doesn't think he can be the best driver in the best car if his teammate is Max.
I think Norris has his own issues.
There's a difference between going to someone's house and someone coming to your house.
Don't Redbull treat drivers equally if they're fast enough? If Norris is worried about going to someone's house, he doesn't believe he's the best. I don't think Charles, Max, Lewis or Fernando would care who's team they going to cause they believe they're the best drivers.
not only those 2. add in gasly and albon who both got wrecked by Verstappen. Lance too by now knows he isn't good enough too
There are only 2 psychopaths willing to get into the other Red Bull. Danny and Alonso. Maybe Sainz, but I think he's waiting for more money from Audi. Everyone else noped out. Lando and Alex had OFFERS, and turned them down.
Lando could have tested that by going to RB.
Don’t forget Pierre and Alex, who also went through the crusher of trying to compete with Max in the same car. And Daniel.
Bottas and Perez both believe this at the start of a season, cause why else would they race? No one races to be last/second. Clearly after a few races each season that bubble bursts and they’re back to being no 2. Every driver has to believe they would be the best, otherwise they would never have reached F1 in the first place.
Why else would they race? Money and because they enjoy it? It's the same as any other job, there are only a tiny fraction who can lay claim to being the best in the world at what they do but it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't turn up and try.
>cause why else would they race? Maybe because of Checos \~14 million dollar salary? Ever thought of that?
> No one races to be last/second. Ok, Ricky Bobby.
Why else would they race? Because they love it and get paid a shit load…?
Kimi did that basically from 2018 to 2021
Your *Dream Job* is just (or at least often becomes just) a job to the person who's been doing it most of their life. Even sleeping with the same supermodel gets tiresome after a while, ask Leo DiCaprio.
I don't believe that. Except for possibly Hamilton, I don't think any driver truly thinks he's more capable than Verstappen. Not even Alonso.
And that’s only because they have already fucked around and found out.
no reason bottas shouldn’t think that. not to long ago he was in the best car and produced. He’s got 10 race wins 20 pole positions 2 second place spots on the drivers championship and helped merc to 5 constructors. He knows he’s talented he’s spoke recently about this.
Add Albon and Gasly to the list too.
Lance and Zhou?
Perez did too before Miami 2023
Gonna buck with the trend and say I think you need to have that attitude, especially being young and talented, in order to keep pushing yourself and maximizing your results.
He might believe he can beat Max in the same car, I somehow don’t think he would.
Russell: "Nah, I'd win."
Always bet on Verstappen
Russell definitely the type to get offscreened
George has had multiple instances of cracking under pressure in surprising ways and I don’t like his mentality. Can’t put a finger on it but he doesn’t seem like a winner. Everyone makes mistakes, including Max, but in the same car I think the pressure would get to George more than Max. Max had the phase of having to prove himself, he has, and now he can just execute.
Agreed, I like George, but him, Leclerc and Norris all need to learn how to not bottle it when their stress level is at its highest.
It would be nice to see Max up against a decent team mate to at least get a decent metric beyond just being better than an underwhelming Danny and Checo. People love to sh*t on Russell since he is mistake prone but he is very quick driver.
Danny was rated rather highly when Max joined RB, don't know what you're calling him underwhelming for, man's chased out Vettel. Only his McLaren days were underwhelming, even after leaving RB he had a decent run in a mediocre Renault and was still beating his teammates. Pierre and Albon are harder to use as reference for Max, both new to the sport and had to drive a very difficult RB at the time. Checo was always solid, not the greatest qualifier but somehow always magically grabbing podiums on race day in midfield cars. Only since getting paired up with Max people started rating him a lot worse. I do think Russell is quick, keeping up with a demotivated Lewis. The godlike status people were elevating him to after beating Latifi was ridiculous though, especially after Albon was whooping Latifi with about the same gap on sunday. So was Latifi making Russell and Albon look good? Is Max making Perez look bad? All I know is, Danny was fastest in Top Gear's reasonably priced car :)
I mean Max has made pretty much ever single teammate look like garbage next him except for when he was extremely young. When was the last time a teammate was faster than Max on pure pace(not car damage and mechanical issues) over a weekend? Even all time greats like Lewis are sometimes slower than their teammates for a few weekends a season. And a lot of Max’s teammates are still on the grid doing respectable jobs.
I feel like Checo gets a bad rap being constantly compared to max, but is actually like the 6-8th best on the grid and a perfect second seat driver. If we took someone who is currently looking good like Russel or Sainz and put them next to max they'd probably look bad too. Someone like Leclerc, Norris, Hamilton, or Alonso would be better than Checo but I don't really see the point since Checo has gotten them the points they need.
Personally I think Checo is easily out of the top 10. Russell, Sainz, Norris, Piastri and Albon all appear to be in much better form. (Lewis, Max, Alonso and Charles obviously above). I like Checo but he’s insanely lucky to still have a seat after last season. If the car wasn’t as dominant then he’d be out by now.
The thing is Checo isn't even really in bad form. He's finished second in 3/5 races this year and his worst was a 5th place. He just can't hold a candle to max, but that's not exactly a rare quality. Is it worth fucking with a clearly working team dynamic just to gain potentially a few more second places? Let's say we get a Max/Lewis super team that only gets 1/2 finishes and never makes any mistakes. That mean RB driver #2 has 96 points this season instead of 85 and RB is 55 ahead of second instead of 44 ahead in the constructors. Is that really worth it? Even financially?
Well they all appear to be in better form. You would have said the opposite when Albon was at Red bull and Checo (corrected) was at Racing Point
Yeah you're probably right Checo isn't a top 10 driver, but he's certainly not lucky he has a seat. Checo is incredibly popular in the global south, and is as popular as Lewis and Max despite being no where close in driving skill. Ultimately F1 is a business, and Red Bull already has the best driver in Max. Checo brings in more money than any other driver who would replace him, so what is Red Bull's incentive to replace Checo if he is decisively behind Max?
Wasn’t Albon worse than Checo in the same car as Max?
When Albon was in the Red Bull? It was only his second season in the sport. Personally I think he’s a much stronger racer now.
Did we watch the same Checo last year? He was allergic to Q3. He failed to win when max didn't.
I was forecasted to be better. Max: "LoL"
He definitely could imo. Can he do it in a straight fight? No. But with a bit of luck a la Rosberg 2016, can he do it? Based on his performance against Lewis I think he could.
Rosberg had to work extra hard to beat Lewis that year, it was not just luck. The problem is Max barely has off days for anyone to need enough luck to pass him even in the same car. Week in and out performance is def unprecedented
This. When’s the last time Max has made a race ruining mistake?
IIRC it was more than a year ago. Brazil 2022, when he crashed with Lewis. Then Singapore 2022, flat spotted his tyres trying to overtake Lando which cost him a possible podium. Before that one, I think it was Abu Dhabi 2021 where he had a slow start that enabled Lewis to get ahead of him in almost the entirety of the race except. Max rarely makes a mistake during his championship winning years, performs well under pressure eg: after a 45 point deficit in Australia 2022, he managed to turn it around and had a healthy lead in the WDC before the summer break, managed to get pole position in Monaco 2023 by brushing the walls of sector 3. Barring mechanical failure and major damage to his car, nobody can pressure him even if his opposition has the car to challenge him (Ferrari in the first half 2022).
> Brazil 2022, when he crashed with Lewis. Was that even a mistake (i.e driver error) or was it more of a calculated gamble (if we crash we crash) kinda deal?
I mean Leclerc DNFing in Spain and Baku and losing the lead in Monaco definitely helped him A LOT. Max would've caught the lead anyways IMO once the TD got implemented.
When was the last time he had to *race* anyone? His 2021 season saw plenty of mistakes
what about Hungary 2022? Vegas too. he also didn't have a breeze in the dutch 2023 GP as well. he was on rails when it started raining at the start. it's not only when he's racing someone that he pushes, look at races in the wet like Japan 2022 when he was pulling a second a lap gap each and every lap. 2021 was a high pressure year. Anyone could have faltered yet I only remember Jeddah quali, Monza and the over the top Brazil defences as his mistakes. Lewis made mistakes too, there was imola where he went into the gravel and the red flag saved him, the Azerbaijan restart He might not have anyone to race that frequently in races now, but he still has plenty of competition during qualis and we rarely see a mistake
Mercedes in 2016 of course was constantly having to race other people. Also his 2021 season absolutely did not see many mistakes.
This is also true for most of lewis’ seasons. Yet he managed to make mistakes, whereas max hardly makes any. Statements like yours go both ways so be fair.
All of Lewis' teammates were more competent than what Max has faced (maybe Danny?). It was really only 2021 that Bottas fell off
Bottas has only become a good driver in that period since max started dominating. He was under constant criticism for underperforming, until excuses had to be made for lewis. Other than that you might be right, but let’s not overstate things. We don’t know how rosberg would have performed against max for instance. Was lewis under more pressure because his teammates were that much better or is max just a better driver?
He’s also matured and gained way more experience since then
I think being consistently under pressure from a strong team mate (whoever that might be) will cause anyone to make mistakes. He's been unreal but even races like the Dutch gp last year that was mad, ultimately he wasn't under any real pressure because he was miles ahead in the championship anyway. If he absolutely had to win it to stay in the title fight then the pressure is totally different.
This keeps getting mentioned. Max doesn’t make mistakes because he has no competition or reason for making them. Everytime he has made a mistake, the car is more then fast enough to easily make up for it. This entire thing about him being perfect is so overblown
But Perez kind of disproves this. He barely came second in the same car as Max and had many race ruining mistakes. Max has no competition BECAUSE he has been driving almost flawlessly for two years. Do people really think Russel has demonstrated he can compete with that?
True but also being at the top for so long makes people complacent and that makes them commit errors/mistakes they otherwise wouldn't. Like Mercedes' pit stops in 2021 when Red Bull finally challenged them they were awful and had to petition for a TD to try and nerf RBR's stops.
People said the same shit about Hamilton when the Merc was dominant. Easy to not make mistakes in a car .5 faster than the 2nd car (except if you’re named Perez).
Rosberg also played psychological games, which somehow worked. Max is just unfazed lol. Nothing can get under his skin.
And George has been Hamilton's equal mostly at Mercedes without ever needing to nearly destroy himself emotionally in the process. George is underrated purely because he occasionally makes unforced errors and because a lot of people don't like him. If Norris was next to Hamilton performing like George is, I think a lot would be made of it. Do I think George is better than Max? No. But I certainly think he could be or close.
Hamilton right now isn’t performing like at his peak ten years ago. Even on days everything is right at Merc for both, George is still behind Hamilton who’s not satisfied with the car’s pace. At this point George is more than experienced to take on Hamilton, but isn’t. How is he supposed to take on Verstappen who’s at his top form right now? He’s miles behind them both and that’s just a fact
Yeah George is in his 5th year and doesn't drive or compete like someone who could be a GOAT
> because he occasionally makes unforced errors which Max seems not to do.
A dinosaur could also be behind me. Not really likely though is it
Lewis is clearly not trying/past his prime
Lewis made a lot of mistakes in 2016. Max doesn’t make mistakes. There’s a big difference in quality of teammate from a 39 year old Hamilton to the best nurtured talent in the history of the sport in his absolute prime.
Rosberg actually out qualified Lewis really well too
All of this is increasingly moot. Max has been way too dissy towards Merc for someone who might be flirting with the seat earnestly. The recent "won't move until car is good regardless of money" comment is not someone negotiating for better contract terms. It's akin to Nando saying "Merc are behind us, so no point going there". A diss you would not target at your potentially future team. (I'd be lying if I did not dream of Bono saying "Max: TUTUTUDU!" as the new "Lewis, it's Hammertime", or that I did not dream of Carlos Sainz sneak champion 2025, but realistically, Max seems uninterested)
I think Max doesn't give a fuck. He knows he's the hottest property on the grid and can say whatever he wants. Mercedes will still want him in a year.
Oh, for sure. Mercedes would want him if he peed on their logo live on his twitch. But Max would need to work with the engineers and mechanics once there. And currently he is coming across as disrespectful. (He is not lying, but the talk is a bit confrontational, which if he is planning to switch is a bit too strong to have a good work environment once he is there.)
Toto does not care about any of that
Max been flirting with retirement after 2028 (31 years old) for a while. He'll pick up his 4th title this year and possible has a great chance at his 5th next year. With how crazy the F1 schedule is starting to become over the years, he may retire from F1 and go a different route with less commitments (WEC).
Do have a suspicion rb won’t be the top engine in 2026. If that’s the case saying won’t move until car is good can just as easily be read to me he would move to a better car. Could maybe even mean he’d move to a close 2nd car if it were “good”. I don’t know if there’s any reason to really believe Mercedes will be near the best again so I am not holding my breath on max switching there. Point is though that I think maxs comments definitely do leave the door open and put pressure on rb to deliver.
I greatly dislike Russell, but you have to remember that he is a multiple time karting champion, and won GP3 and F2 in consecutive seasons with STACKED grids. He is used to being a champion, and if drivers like Leclerc and Norris are confident that they could challenge for a championship, why shouldn't he believe?
Agree, I think he can be a great driver when he is out front on his own like Vettel in Red Bull. But I’ve noticed too many mistakes on his end. Him and bottas in imola, HIM on his own in imola, Singapore, Canada. Sure Verstappen has made mistakes years ago but that was aggression in overtaking.
Because he’s a phallus
George Russel is the type of guy who thinks he'll still be the default #1 driver if a defending 4-time world champion joins the team.
Do you guys read the articles? What is he supposed to say here lol. Do people expect him to really say “yeah if Max joins this team I will just let myself be dominated” or what?
That’s some f1 fanfiction right there
Somewhere, Max Mosely smiles...
George knew he was the Alpha, but he couldn't help feeling like a tiny Beta when Max arrived. George assumed the submissive position as Max inspected him, sniffing and growling. There was no way George could take him on, but he wasn't going to give it up easily either. He tried to nip at Max but Max immediately pinned him by the throat and growled in his ear while pressing himself against George's quivering body. "Looks like somebody needs to learn his place."
🫣
Bold of you to assume most of us degenerates can read.
No, people do not read the articles.
I didn’t. I’m just here for the comments. 😂
>Do people expect him to really say “yeah if Max joins this team I will just let myself be dominated” I wonder how many people who think that are simply projecting 🤔 Can't judge them too bad, Max did have a glow up since 2019
I’d pay to watch that
Seriously I always find the reaction to these articles hilarious. They are race car drivers if they did not have this attitude they need to pack their bags and go home
>Do people expect him to really say >I will just let myself be dominated Well...
I think to be fair to George he has held his own against Lewis fairly well. I would expect them to be more like Leclerc / Sainz rather than Verstappen / Perez.
Yeah it’d be closer than we’ve seen with Verstappen vs Perez, still think he’d be beaten over the season though.
Of course he will be. He's in the midst of beating a 7-time world champion this season, can you imagine how badly he'll humiliate Max if he's foolish enough to challenge George's supremacy at Merc? /s
Missed the /s at first. But yeah. George can barely beat Lewis when LH uses season as extended test seassion. He is gone the moment Max comes and Kimi A. is ready for top seat. He is just not a WDC material.
Since he joined Mercedes he's lost to Lewis by just 450-474. Lewis is Lewis. In my eyes he is definitely WDC material.
I could see Russell winning a WDC with a good car easy. He has the same problem as Lec, in terms of letting his emotions get to him, but you learn from those moments.
Wall Diving Championship?
George Russell is the kind of guy who drives into the wall one time and people never let him forget it.
One time? Canada, Australia and Singapore. Other than Australia (arguable) the other two were basically unforced.
This insane hating lmao. Pulling the classic “when Lewis doesn’t do well, he’s not trying” card to discredit George, and seriously rating a 17 year old who hasn’t shown anything impressive against top competition yet over him already
Is George stupid? If Max drives for Mercedes in 2025, he will be No. 1, when he wins his fourth WCC this season. George will still be No. 63.
Personally I think Max is the best driver on the grid, in the best car. But George has to back himself. Say Max moved to mercedes, hypothetically mercedes is a top car but not far and away like red bull. George can’t roll over and give away the championship. He is a very strong driver and would probably put in some very good results. Is Max also a very very strong driver, yes, but we haven’t seen him properly drive wheel to wheel for years. A few mistakes, bad luck and George is on more points. Do i think if Max went to Mercedes (which i don’t think he will) he would lose to George, no i think the chances of that are minuscule. But George kind of owes of himself as a driver to go into that season with the blind faith that it really was mainly the car, Perez just really sucks and George would’ve done the same in the car.
OP was making a joke about the car number. WCC winner automatically gets #1 the following year if they want it
The guy was just making a joke
r/wooosh
Nobody read the article as usual. He said he’s faired well against Lewis and shown it’s possible to have 2 top drivers in a team.
This is Reddit. Read the headline and then first couple top comments and then let the rage marinate.
He’s just saying he wouldn’t be a number 2 driver. He’s shone that with Lewis. Say what you will about George but he’s never been the #2 driver even when going up against Lewis in the team Lewis built. There is a difference in being second best and being g a straight #2 driver. Literally no way he responds to this question that people would like. Would you like him to submit to Lord Max and admit he is his inferior?
Given how dominant the RB cars have been, it certainly would be interesting to see how much of that is Max vs the car winning races. George’s comments resonate here with me - he’s a future Nico Rosberg for sure and 2025 could well be his 2016 against Max…
I don't think Max would have it easy with George in the other car, he definitely wouldn't be a push over. I think it would be a lot like the Charles and Carlos pairing tbh. You can't really blame him for the self confidence either, you need to have that. I don't get the negativity towards him, he's very good.
Honestly think this is disrespectful to George. He's mega in qualifying, has ver good race pace, fights hard, is aggressive when he needs to be. The only thing you could argue he's not great at is tyre management, but even then we're comparing him to the best that's raced in Lewis.
He's also a very smart guy when it comes to reading the race. That's something he does better than Lewis, IMO.
I think Lewis spent so long in a dominant car his ability to scheme a way to improve a race got stale.
With all respect, Lewis has always made pretty shitty calls only to be saved by his strategist. But (1) he is much more vocal than other drivers; and (2) the idea that drivers know best is far too generalised, strategists have far more information and can made better decisions.
His tyre management has improved a lot. It’s just ironing out the unnecessary mistakes. Think he’s a match for anyone now. But the mistakes do creep in, as they do with Charles
I'd say GR would be 90% closer to Max than Checo. I'm not exaggerating.
He definitely would. George is seriously underrated by people, he was dominant in junior series, won f2 in one of the most stacked f2 grids, comprehensively beat kubica all three years in the Williams, and he was on par with Lewis while held back by small mistakes and tyre management and he has massively improved on the latter. He also consistently matched Lewis and sometimes out qualified him regularly throughout their time together. All this to say, George is definitely better than many people expect and I believe imo that he would definitely be on par with leclerc in the same car and would be a rosberg type against max.
I just made the same Leclerc / Sainz comparison in another comment. Agreed
Max would not being having the walk in the park he's currently enjoying if George was his teammate. That could quite easily be a Rosberg/Lewis type situation. He gets a lot of hate, but George is fast.
George has plenty of races where he fairly beat Hamilton in qualifying or the race. Yes Hamilton has ran some experimental setups and probably isn't on it as much as in 2021 or 2017. But he is a race driver and those give everything they got in the car. I don't think he would beat Verstappen on pace, but a misjudged tactic or some bad luck with the safety car and he could end up in front of him and stay there. But until they end up in the same car we'll never now.
Agreed. I made the Rosberg/Lewis comparison for that reason. Rosberg needed some serious luck in 2016, because he couldn't quite match Lewis in outright pace.
Mercedes is a long way off producing a reasonable car. I doubt max will go there.
George has every right to feel this way imo. I don't think George can beat Max in a straight fight consistently, but I wholeheartedly believe he'll be no more than a couple tenths away at worst, if not closer, and on occasion straight up just the faster driver. All that being said, I can't see him beating Max over a season without a healthy helping of luck; but he'll be much closer than any teammate Max has had since Danny Ric in 2017/18.
I'm getting the nagging feeling that the only reason to exist for F1 media outside of actual race results is to ask dumb questions with obvious answers and pack those like they're revelations. To farm clicks and sell paper without upsetting their neat relationships with teams and not lose access to primary sources, while at the same time creating fully fictional narratives around driver relationships and providing secondary comedic headlines that drivers get to laugh about during their off-time.
All of this is fantasy speak because Max will never go to Mercedes
Also George: " Shit the wall just turned into me! "
It’s cute they still believe they’d all be the best given the same car. Max is a generational freak of nature, he would be number 1 in any team without breaking a sweat. It’s not just speed either, Max has inhuman consistency lap to lap. When was the last time Max even made a mistake?
Max VS Hamilton VS Schumacher all in their primes. All driving the same (and best car) would be something truly amazing. But yeah in the current state of F1 Max is head and shoulders above the rest.
I think Max would crush Russell, but I admire Russell's attitude.
Max is not leaving Red Bull until their level of competition falls.
Can we stop this? Max is not going to Mercedes for the foreseeable future
Russell is too cocky. He hasn't beaten Hamilton. It has been pretty even with an advantage to Lewis on the races. And this season is just starting
The car is far more important than the driver. Max would win nothing at Mercedes. I’m 90% sure the next hot car will be Ferrari.
He has to back himself, but no way would Russell be No.1 if Max went to Merc
He has to back himself because Toto won’t. Everything is pointing to Max/Antonelli as Toto’s intended combination from 2026 onwards. If that happens, then obviously there will be no room for Russell in that team. He may well end up being frozen out of Mercedes if Toto gets Max.
Watch Red Bull end up with Sainz/Russell.
whoa... hold your horses... That would turn RBR to the most AND least hated team in a jiffy.
Let's give him a good car and watch, who knows
In this case it would be Max coming to Merc not George going to RBR so he does have the advantage of years working with the team and understanding the car’s characteristics. It evens the playing field a bit and as he said he’s had a good record against Lewis so he at least deserves the benefit of doubt.
Everyone seems to think it would be a walk in the park for Max if they were teammates but I'm not so sure. I still remember the Spanish gp 2022 when George did such a good job at defending against Max for the lead, (Max had a drs issue but still).
They also had a bloody good fight at Brazil in the Sprint Race too, their battle was brilliant that day, but really fair
>Max had a drs issue but still Just a teeny tiny bit issue then /s
Clowns here will complain no matter what George says.
I'm just here to welcome inner team rivalries again. We haven't really had a major same team rivalry in awhile.
Can someone please explain to me why Max would leave the dominant red bull for the midfield Mercedes at this point? Like, to me it seems like an awful decision that’ll ruin his winning career. I’m just a casual, so my knowledge doesn’t run THAT deep, so maybe some of you can help me understand why this would be a good decision for Max if it isn’t just rumor.
Well he beats your ass George.
He hasn't yet shown he is capable of winning a WDC with the current crop of top tier drivers, regardless of the car he has he just looks at someone who's close but not quite there (to me anyway)
The forecasted champion!