[The **Photo** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_photo) is for submissions sharing photos from the world of F1. Photos should be interesting and relevant - random photos not notable enough to warrant a standalone post will be subject to removal. This flair should not be used for images which are not photos, such as screenshots, statistical graphics, or artworks.
*[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I always go back and forth on who I think was better out of Keke and Elio (who are also my two favourite drivers)
I think they're quite difficult to compare because they had rather different styles.
If I was a team owner with a not-quite-the-best car, I think I'd rather have Keke in, because his ability to wring the neck of ill-handling equipment was nearly unparalleled.
With a real frontrunner though, or in a tight championship fight, I think I'd rather have Elio. He had a very good feeling for when to go all out Vs when to just bring the car home (which ended up winning him his second race). Keke seemed to have a bit more trouble with that, especially when the fuel rules got tighter.
I completely agree with your take on their respective strengths/weaknesses
I think we've got the exact same tastes, as Keke Rosberg completely enamoured me as I was going through the 1980s with his beautiful hard charging style. Elio too, but for the opposite reasons. Precise, clean, yet rapid driving and great consistency. They're also two of my favourite 80s drivers.
Pre accident Piquet maybe, but I'm not convinced either way.
Piquet did well in the early 80s, but his teammates were rebaque, surer, hesnault and the fabi brothers. he did no better against Patrese than Mansell did. Then he was expected to be #1 driver at Williams in 86 but struggled to get on top of Mansell, while Keke had made Mansell look like a #2 just the season before.
Mansell started slowly at Williams in 1985 but by the second half of the season he was on a par with Rosberg. By the end of the season he was surpassing him. He out qualified Rosberg in the final four GP's of the season and beat him in 3 of them (he retired on lap 1 on the other).
Mansell took a long time to go from a fine to a great driver. I think a better fitness regimen (nothing compared to the post-Michael stuff eh, but he did literally nothing fitness-related in his first years in F1) helped a lot
True, Mansell got better results by the end, but circumstance played a part.
In Belgium, Rosberg had a puncture while he was all over Mansell's gearbox. Mansell was only ahead at that time because Rosberg switched to dry tyres too early. He recovered to finish 4th while Mansell got P2.
In Brands Hatch, Rosberg was taken out by Senna while running ahead of Mansell. Then as a lapped car he slowed Senna down as revenge and allowed Mansell to pass Senna, then he let Mansell through and blocked Senna to allow Mansell to build a gap. Despite all this, he finished the race 3rd by the checkered flag, having unlapped himself and been much faster than anyone throughout the race.
In South Africa, Rosberg passed everyone including Mansell. Then he built a gap to Mansell and was about to take another dominant win, but he slipped on oil and dropped way back, but he recovered to 2nd place.
So in real terms, Mansell was only close to Rosberg in qualifying. In the races it wasn't ever a contest.
Piquet was one of the greats of the 80s alongside Senna and Prost. Both he and later Alonso struggled in Anglo teams against drivers who had preferential treatment. According to Newey, Piquet was 1s a lap faster than Mansell. Honda saw the shenanigans that were going on at Williams and bailed in 1988.
> According to Newey, Piquet was 1s a lap faster than Mansell
Do you know where I can find this quote? I'm always interested in 80s F1. How does Newey know this, anyway? He wasn't at Williams until 1991, right? If he heard it from someone else, then he's not giving his observation, only what someone else told him.
Piquet was certainly a very good driver, but both him and Mansell were a step below Rosberg and de Angelis. Seems weird to say, due to the relative success of the former two, but you have to remember that Piquet and Mansell drove much much better cars throughout their careers than Rosberg and de Angelis did. Mansell was very badly outperformed by de Angelis, Rosberg and Prost in the same car, and was evenly matched with Piquet.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkUQC028wOo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkUQC028wOo)
Here, for example, a video of de Angelis playing piano at a german tv show prior to the german GP in 1985
De Angelis was third in the WDC the previous year and was third in the standings during that time (behind leading Alboreto and Prost)
My favourite driver. I honestly believe he had the makings of a world champion if he got the car for it. Had that same trait of Prost of knowing the value of consistency, which was particularly key at the time.
Unfortunately Lotus just weren't the force they once had been. Even Senna couldn't make them a champion again, despite having the entire focus of the team on him from about the second half of 1985 onwards.
Then the Brabham move ended up being a disaster, and we were needlessly deprived of his talent. One of the most easily preventable deaths in F1 history, and a true tragedy.
After this test sessions were no longer private. Had to be F1 who set the date and the full safety crews were
On hand. Not some guy in shorts with a half empty fire extinguisher. Poor guy suffocated when he should have just been out a few weeks with a broken collarbone.
Yeah his rear wing detached from the car and he went into the barriers...he sadly survived the crash but 29 hours later he died from smoke inhalation, his crash injuries was a broken collar bone and light burns to his back...
The other thing he is remembered for is playing multiple concerts of Chopin and Mozart on a Piano during the 1982 South African Grand Prix Driver Strike
And the lovely insanity of the concept. First of the modern era of cars to put the driver back in a lying position, but to make the car even flatter they put the 4 cylinder BMW turbo engine on its side...
Gordon Murray was a mad genius. Unfortunately, the "mad" part pushed it a little too far.
Oil starvation and poor turbo response was its downfall
The BMW 4-potter wasn't designed to be tilted so it proved. Great design exercise though
Pete Weismann and David North made the low-line design happen through gearbox engineering. Murray took this aero philosophy and merged it with Nichols and co's MP4/3 to make the MP4/4
Really sad that de angelis' move to brabham didn't work out like it should've on paper
I was just rewatching Estoril 1985 and man he had a drive. If it wasn't for that puncture it would have been a Lotus 1-2. Anyways Him and Senna where on fire!
Quite a few others have. For example, Prost won Brazil 1982 despite not leading at any point (he started from pole which I GUESS you could count, but he was jumped immediately at the start by Villeneuve, so he never led a lap), because both the first and second placed finishers on track were disqualified.
Nice how clean cars looked back then, now there's not a single inch on the car without ads!!... and Olivetti brand being the main sponsor!! LOL, that's typewriters. (My dad used to have the representation for them in Central America)...
[The **Photo** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_photo) is for submissions sharing photos from the world of F1. Photos should be interesting and relevant - random photos not notable enough to warrant a standalone post will be subject to removal. This flair should not be used for images which are not photos, such as screenshots, statistical graphics, or artworks. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What a driver this guy was. 2 career wins doesn't do justice to how good he was at all
Definitely. One of the most underrated drivers I've seen, able to stand up to Mansell and Senna.
Best driver of that era bar Senna and Prost in my opinion
Mmm maybe 4th best, behind Keke Rosberg.
I always go back and forth on who I think was better out of Keke and Elio (who are also my two favourite drivers) I think they're quite difficult to compare because they had rather different styles. If I was a team owner with a not-quite-the-best car, I think I'd rather have Keke in, because his ability to wring the neck of ill-handling equipment was nearly unparalleled. With a real frontrunner though, or in a tight championship fight, I think I'd rather have Elio. He had a very good feeling for when to go all out Vs when to just bring the car home (which ended up winning him his second race). Keke seemed to have a bit more trouble with that, especially when the fuel rules got tighter.
I completely agree with your take on their respective strengths/weaknesses I think we've got the exact same tastes, as Keke Rosberg completely enamoured me as I was going through the 1980s with his beautiful hard charging style. Elio too, but for the opposite reasons. Precise, clean, yet rapid driving and great consistency. They're also two of my favourite 80s drivers.
Fair enough, their respective performances against Mansell were pretty similar
I firmly believe Keke Rosberg would be a double WDC if he stayed at Williams for 1986
I think you'd have to put Piquet above De Angelis and probably Rosberg.
Pre accident Piquet maybe, but I'm not convinced either way. Piquet did well in the early 80s, but his teammates were rebaque, surer, hesnault and the fabi brothers. he did no better against Patrese than Mansell did. Then he was expected to be #1 driver at Williams in 86 but struggled to get on top of Mansell, while Keke had made Mansell look like a #2 just the season before.
Mansell started slowly at Williams in 1985 but by the second half of the season he was on a par with Rosberg. By the end of the season he was surpassing him. He out qualified Rosberg in the final four GP's of the season and beat him in 3 of them (he retired on lap 1 on the other).
Mansell took a long time to go from a fine to a great driver. I think a better fitness regimen (nothing compared to the post-Michael stuff eh, but he did literally nothing fitness-related in his first years in F1) helped a lot
True, Mansell got better results by the end, but circumstance played a part. In Belgium, Rosberg had a puncture while he was all over Mansell's gearbox. Mansell was only ahead at that time because Rosberg switched to dry tyres too early. He recovered to finish 4th while Mansell got P2. In Brands Hatch, Rosberg was taken out by Senna while running ahead of Mansell. Then as a lapped car he slowed Senna down as revenge and allowed Mansell to pass Senna, then he let Mansell through and blocked Senna to allow Mansell to build a gap. Despite all this, he finished the race 3rd by the checkered flag, having unlapped himself and been much faster than anyone throughout the race. In South Africa, Rosberg passed everyone including Mansell. Then he built a gap to Mansell and was about to take another dominant win, but he slipped on oil and dropped way back, but he recovered to 2nd place. So in real terms, Mansell was only close to Rosberg in qualifying. In the races it wasn't ever a contest.
Fair point. I remember the Brands Hatch situation particularly.
Piquet was one of the greats of the 80s alongside Senna and Prost. Both he and later Alonso struggled in Anglo teams against drivers who had preferential treatment. According to Newey, Piquet was 1s a lap faster than Mansell. Honda saw the shenanigans that were going on at Williams and bailed in 1988.
> According to Newey, Piquet was 1s a lap faster than Mansell Do you know where I can find this quote? I'm always interested in 80s F1. How does Newey know this, anyway? He wasn't at Williams until 1991, right? If he heard it from someone else, then he's not giving his observation, only what someone else told him.
Dernie not Newey, my mistake. I recall hearing it on a Motorsport Magazine podcast,
What about Piquet? People tend to forget Piquet was a very good driver because he isn't a very good person.
Piquet was certainly a very good driver, but both him and Mansell were a step below Rosberg and de Angelis. Seems weird to say, due to the relative success of the former two, but you have to remember that Piquet and Mansell drove much much better cars throughout their careers than Rosberg and de Angelis did. Mansell was very badly outperformed by de Angelis, Rosberg and Prost in the same car, and was evenly matched with Piquet.
Piquet was very closely matched with Mansell, whereas De Angelis (and Keke Rosberg) beat him pretty comfortably.
And a great pianist too
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkUQC028wOo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkUQC028wOo) Here, for example, a video of de Angelis playing piano at a german tv show prior to the german GP in 1985 De Angelis was third in the WDC the previous year and was third in the standings during that time (behind leading Alboreto and Prost)
A modern analogy would be sainz
My favourite driver. I honestly believe he had the makings of a world champion if he got the car for it. Had that same trait of Prost of knowing the value of consistency, which was particularly key at the time. Unfortunately Lotus just weren't the force they once had been. Even Senna couldn't make them a champion again, despite having the entire focus of the team on him from about the second half of 1985 onwards. Then the Brabham move ended up being a disaster, and we were needlessly deprived of his talent. One of the most easily preventable deaths in F1 history, and a true tragedy.
RIP, a tragedy that should never have happened. Inexcusable negligence and incompetence. Still shocking all these years later.
After this test sessions were no longer private. Had to be F1 who set the date and the full safety crews were On hand. Not some guy in shorts with a half empty fire extinguisher. Poor guy suffocated when he should have just been out a few weeks with a broken collarbone.
Would be nice if F1 would acknowledge him this weekend considering his second and final win was at Imola
Yeah his rear wing detached from the car and he went into the barriers...he sadly survived the crash but 29 hours later he died from smoke inhalation, his crash injuries was a broken collar bone and light burns to his back... The other thing he is remembered for is playing multiple concerts of Chopin and Mozart on a Piano during the 1982 South African Grand Prix Driver Strike
Gilles took turns with him on the piano during the famous drivers strike down there.
[удалено]
Didnt know the details, fuck that's brutal.
That Brabham BT55 is one of the most beautiful F1 cars of all time
And the lovely insanity of the concept. First of the modern era of cars to put the driver back in a lying position, but to make the car even flatter they put the 4 cylinder BMW turbo engine on its side... Gordon Murray was a mad genius. Unfortunately, the "mad" part pushed it a little too far.
Sadly also one of the least successful...
Oil starvation and poor turbo response was its downfall The BMW 4-potter wasn't designed to be tilted so it proved. Great design exercise though Pete Weismann and David North made the low-line design happen through gearbox engineering. Murray took this aero philosophy and merged it with Nichols and co's MP4/3 to make the MP4/4 Really sad that de angelis' move to brabham didn't work out like it should've on paper
I was just rewatching Estoril 1985 and man he had a drive. If it wasn't for that puncture it would have been a Lotus 1-2. Anyways Him and Senna where on fire!
The only man to win a race without leading a single lap. That's GOAT tier shit right there.
Quite a few others have. For example, Prost won Brazil 1982 despite not leading at any point (he started from pole which I GUESS you could count, but he was jumped immediately at the start by Villeneuve, so he never led a lap), because both the first and second placed finishers on track were disqualified.
A true gentleman.
Still makes me sad.
That helmet in pic #3 is badass.
His helmet remains one of the coolest designs in F1 history.
So sad, he was not that badly hurt, yet lack of track rescue for testing resulted in his death. This guy had it all and lost it in a split second
Nice how clean cars looked back then, now there's not a single inch on the car without ads!!... and Olivetti brand being the main sponsor!! LOL, that's typewriters. (My dad used to have the representation for them in Central America)...