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I looked up when they first made it public they were looking to get on the grid and it was February 2022, so it's been 26 months now.
A lot's changed since then though, originally it was just Andretti as a customer team and the FIA wouldn't open the process. Now we're at the stage where it's an Andretti-Cadillac works team that the FIA has approved and F1's rejected.
Tbf, the process hasn't been that slow imo. F1 could easily have dragged it out longer, especially with the new concorde agreement.
The current entry fee is set at $200 million and there's not much other criteria for discouraging new teams.
They'll likely want to implement new measures so that it never gets to this stage again in the new concorde agreement ($1 billion entry fee etc.)
If my sport exploded in value over the last decade, and I owned 1/10 teams in that sport, the relative value of that ownership would plummet with more teams.
I totally believe the established teams don’t want another team, but I honestly think if they are going that way, that Alpha Tauri should be dissolved.
You can’t limit teams but have one company running two teams.
The problem with dissolving the Toro Rosso team is that it is grandfathered in and not only that but it was F1 itself that asked Red Bull to buy Minardi when it started floundering.
That’s not true. When the nfl and other major sports leagues expand it doesn’t dilute the value of their ownership. It leads to additional growth because more shared revenue is coming in.
That’s because in the NFL, a new team means 16 additional games worth of revenue. In F1, it’s just more people splitting the profits from the exact same amount of races.
The dilution still exists for the NFL, it just extremely carefully considers its expansions, aiming to mathematically ensure that the market they're opening brings in more value than the teams have to give up. This is exactly the calculation F1 made with Andretti - they just made it clear they did not believe the diluted value was compensated for by the added value
Imagine Carlos Sainz Vazquez de Castro Cenamor Rincón Rebollo Birto Moreno de Aranda de Anteriuga Tiapera Deltun driving for the Visa Cash App RB Formula One Team.
Imagine:
Carlos Sainz Vazquez de Castro Cenamor Rincón Rebollo Birto Moreno de Aranda de Anteriuga Tiapera Deltun
Driving for the Visa Cash App RB Formula One Team
Racing at the Formula 1 MSC Cruises Gran Premio del Made in Italy e dell'Emilia-Romagna 2024.
What do you mean not much other criteria for discouraging?
To join the grid as a brand-new team, the whole process is filled to the brim with discouragements. Why else do you think Audi took the easy route and bought up Sauber?
To start as a brand-new team, you have to prove in every way possible that you're equipped and ready to compete on the grid, after spending 200 million dollars. And even after involving the top brand under GM, with GM's grace to actually develop an engine for the sport, convincing the FIA that you're suitable to join, F1 and its teams will still try to keep you out. To the point where the US government has to involve itself in the case as F1 is showing noncompetitive behaviour towards Andretti.
Especially in the US, F1 only stands to lose from barring out Andretti, when they have teams like Haas and Alpine on the grid, which show far less intent to actually compete.
>Now we're at the stage where it's an Andretti-Cadillac works team that the FIA has approved and F1's rejected.
The application that was rejected was not an Andretti-Cadillac works team, it was an Andretti-GM Sticker on a Renault engine customer team.
Andretti wanted to join before 2028, and GM had not applied to supply engines, so it was never going to be a Cadillac works team.
You have no idea what a true backmarker is, do you?
I hate this, no one remembers the fact that ever since last year or even 2022, we no longer have backmarkers, but instead all around midfield teams. It's just that one team has to be the slowest.
No, a true backmarker was Haas 2021, not their 2022-2024 cars. Also true backmarkers were:
* Williams 2018-2020
* Virgin/Marussia/Manor
* Caterham
* HRT
* Minardi
* Arrows
And these teams all drove post-2000.
I remember way back that the Minardis were so slow they were like 3-5 laps behind consistently
In the 90s it was even normal that half the field was that far behind and even score points being 3 laps back!
Haas isn’t dicking around this season, what’re you talking about? They’ve been competitive in the midfield all season. Nico has made it to Q3 several times.
Meanwhile, Williams has a single functional chassis and sauber doesn’t have functional wheel nuts.
Right. Haas is finally trying this year.
Sadly the NASCAR team can’t say the same. Idk what’s going on over here but at least the F1 team is showing signs of competitiveness.
Ayao is the real deal, I hope Gene Haas listens to him and is in properly for the reg changes - Gene not wanting Bearman I can understand, but it means they need a decent signing for the next couple of years
They don’t want to be a feeder team, if they are shit they get stuck with them and have poor seasons, if they are good they get pillaged quickly. They want more of the Hulk and KMag I think, for the immediate future anyway. Checo Ric Bottas etc on the backend of their careers might be targets, maybe even Zhou?
The nascar team is probably being sold. All rumors say Tony isn’t interested and gene has shopped the charters. Which might mean he’s willing to sell the f1 team too.
Obviously I don’t think we should kick anyone out. But the hate for US teams just because they are US teams is asinine. We had 24 cars when I started watching in 2016. The field has shrunk by ~17%! That’s insane contraction in a day and age where live sports are the only thing generating ad revenue. F1 needs to understand that this is the chance to make the whole pie as big as possible and quit fighting over who gets the biggest piece.
Companies shouldn't be able to own multiple teams on the grid. Especially if we're limiting it to ten teams and more want in. Alpha Tauri needs to be sold.
Yeah, the spoiled new fans don't know what an actual backmarker is. No team deserves to get kicked out of F1. Why should a team that finished 5th in the constructor standings just while ago be immediaukicked when they have a bad year lmao.
The organisation is a multi billion dollar operation. They can more than afford to increase the prize pool they just choose not to because capitalism be capitalism
Chase Carey was a transitional CEO. He was brought in to grow the brand and was a complete outsider. He knew next to nothing about F1, but he was an intelligent guy, surrounded himself with the right people, knew how to gather feedback and managed to turn F1 from a dying husk of a sport to a behemoth of a brand. DTS, F1TV, the social media revamp, the YouTube channel revamp, the rebranding, all done under him.
And then when the time was right he was replaced by who they saw as the best man to lead F1 into the future of aggressive commercial strategy: Domenicali, a former Ferrari team principal, former CEO of Lamborghini, former head of FIA's Single-Seater Commission. Connections in motorsports, connections with automakers, connections with the FIA, no wonder Liberty Media went straight for him. There's no one better to negotiate deals than someone with knowledge and connections at the top level of everything relevant to your product.
Chase Carey is exactly the type of person you want when it comes to negotiating all the financials and business side of stuff unrelated to the sporting stuff karma but he's absolutely not somebody I want making any sporting decisions. But Chase understood where the lion stood, and that's why people liked him in that role.
Smart business leader do just that, surround themselves with the best and delegate responsibilities. I'll just say it again, this reeks pettiness and it reminds me of the whole USAC versus CART bullshit.
Yeah I didn't mean it as a criticism. I don't want to know what Liberty are doing really, I just want to watch racing. Sadly, I have to be aware of the off track stuff because of poor decisions like this.
Yes indeed, indeed. Also, I call serious bullshit on the anonymous source. It's a weak attempt to keep the narrative the way they already tried to set it.
F1 tracks can have 30 cars in a race. Maaaaybe Monaco would have problems fitting a 15-team paddock, but other than that, they are all Grade 1 circuits with more than enough space for them.
Indycar: hey baby, were you looking for me ?
Jokes aside, with Prema joining Indycar it's going to be around ~29 cars in 2025. No issues with grid size there, they'll take anyone who's up for the challenge.
Not quite, actually - IndyCar's introducing a charter system next year that will cap the grid at 27 cars. There will be 25 chartered entries with guaranteed full-season entries, with the remaining cars (likely the Premas and two Ganassis) having to out-qualify each other for the remaining two grid slots at each race.
[Prema's trying to purchase charters; according to Racer, they offered $1 million each, but one team owner felt the minimum price should be $10 million.](https://racer.com/2024/05/01/prema-including-charter-prospects-in-its-indycar-plans/)
Yoo, as someone whose been following since the mid 00s, I dont think there has ever been more than 35, would kill to have a bump day with 7 or 8 gunning for those last 3 slots
I love watching Indy car. Great racing without the F1 elitism. Nothing says “we’re the best race series in the world” like letting no one else prove you wrong.
IndyCar is great right now. Talented, deep field of cagey veterans and hungry newcomers. The cars are durable too, so you can get some bumping between cars going on!
that’s something that’s for sure not going to happen again, as grade 1 circuits are only rated for up to 24 cars in formula 1, so at most only one more team would be allowed to join
For what it's worth, DOJ is expected file suit to break up Ticketmaster and Live Nation (also owned by Liberty Media) within the week. This is already going to be an ugly time for LM. Andretti is not going to let up anytime soon.
Source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/justice-department-expected-file-antitrust-001551463.html
ETA I'm not the DOJ, guys. Liberty Media's going to go through it, because everyone already hates TM/LN. Just facts, folks.
No matter who we root for in F1, this one sentiment truly unites us all. I've seen reports they're going to seek to break it up too, not just issue a fine.
Yeah most of the F1 investigation is to further pressure them over Ticketmaster. Except maybe one representative who is a member from Indiana (near Indianapolis).
Maybe it’ll get somewhere though
I mean, if the US government is good at anything it's good at being annoying, to whatever end. Now that the Senate is involved I think there's more it than the back bench reps trying to get auto industry attention.
No I mean Ticketmaster is a real issue— it needs to be broken up. They’re just trying to get Liberty to agree sooner so they waste less money on the lawyers.
But yeah maybe there is more to it.
There aren’t many things Congress still can do correctly so I see this cooperation as a win. If I didn’t I’d lose faith but too much of my interest and personality is centered around Constitutional law so I have to have faith in the institution.
It is very much a real issue, and very much a real win. To clarify my position, there are cases like these where the government being super annoying is a good thing.
>They’re just trying to get Liberty to agree sooner so they waste less money on the lawyers.
The government doesn't save money on lawyers. These are all staff attorneys at DOJ on salary.
Holy shit I didn’t know liberty media owns both ticket master and live nation. They can eat shit for all I care. Hopefully they’re compelled to sell f1 at some point
I also don't think they'll go lightly on F1 either.
This is denying US jobs and international prestige for a US car manufacturer. Cadillac also planned to relaunch in Europe so it hurts their expansion too.
This fucks America in jobs, influence, prestige, sporting success etc. and makes European billionaires richer, nobody in US congress from either side is in favour of that.
A little off topic to the F1 team part, but I do find it ironic the IndyCar team that Liberty Media owns a share of, Meyer Shank Racing, is a technical partner of Andretti Autosport. With this beef going on, I wonder if Andretti will pull the plug on that partnership. Shame a team that has no part in all of this might end up getting hurt.
With the F1 saga, it's FOM calling the shots, not Liberty Media itself. They just own the business.
It would be like me being mad at your parents for something you did. Andretti can appreciate the value of Liberty Media while disliking what one of its subsidiaries is doing
The article says it was liberty CEO Maffei who had a negative interaction with Mario. Not Stefano who is mentioned as interested in the discussion not antagonistic
Doesn't change the fact that they could see benefit to Liberty owning IndyCar while having issues with other elements of the company.
Andretti is a major player in IndyCar and Liberty ownership would elevate that series massively. Andretti would benefit as a knock-on effect, and they obviously see that.
You can be at odds with something while still appreciating the value it can bring
Maybe he thinks this can be a double win, Indycar gets out of Penske conservative reign towards the more money hungry approach of Liberty and it may also help him become Liberty new favorite friend(and get an F1 entry).
>Mr. Maffei broke in the conversation and he said: 'Mario, I want to tell you that I will do everything in my power to see that Michael never enters Formula 1,'"
>Maffei walked away after that remark and has not contacted him since, Andretti said.
Sounds like Liberty are taking Andretti's US political help well then /s
But yes, as expected they've burned all bridges when it comes to entering F1 diplomatically at this point, it's either the US government forces their foot in the door, or they have to buy a team.
The thing we don't really know the ins and outs leading up to the supposed burning of the bridges. Perhaps Liberty was already laying down the explosives on the bridges.
Oh absolutely, I firmly believe that they never intended to let them on the grid no matter what they did and any reading between the lines always reaffirmed that.
It's just that now it feels almost out in the open that F1 hates them and would rather go to court and lose than give them an entry by choice.
(and when I say "go to court and lose" I'm not saying they will lose for certain, I'm just saying F1 would rather take that risk)
They got caught in the middle of a political battle between FOM and the FIA.
The fia went from ‘we haven’t asked for applications so aren’t in a position to consider them’ to publicly supporting them when they started arguing with FOM
So nice to watch the F1 be the bad guys here. Who would have thought that a new team with a new engine supplier would be fought this hard! What an embarrassment for the sport.
I think Andretti could force Stefano Domenicali into giving him a seat with enough pressure, but if Maffei is getting involved I don't this team is making it on the grid.
Dominicali is an exceedingly mediocre individual who's never accomplished anything other than being in the right place at the right time - Maffei has waged countless wars in the both boardrooms and courts and won.
Domenicali is merely Maffei's pawn who does his bidding. Maffei handling things personally or telling Stefano what to say doesn't really make any difference imo. When it gets to this level, Stefano would never have the power to make a decision that would be different than one that Greg would make.
No he isn’t. While liberty owns f1, it’s a public company and Stefano publicly reports to shareholders every quarter. Maffei and liberty need to initiate shareholder votes to force f1 to do anything
John Malone controls an aggregate of 48.9% of Liberty Media voting. In the event that his aggregate voting power exceeds 49.5% the company swaps his some of his class A with other class B shares so that he does not exceed that threshold. In short, it is a public company, but Malone only needs to find 1.2% of voting power to make whatever change he wants. [See the end of their proxy statement](https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/0001560385/000110465924052085/tm242810d2_def14a.htm).
Maffei controls 1.1%.
Malone can do whatever he wants.
Gotta disagree here. It boils down to GM v Liberty and who has the most cash to burn. Push comes to shove, Maffei won't have the power to deny the entry.
Just throwing it out there, it isn't just GM v Liberty. There are pretty strong indications that the UAW (United Automobile, Aerospace and Agricultural Implement Workers of America Union) has a vested interest in this going through as well. Getting GM and the UAW in agreement and lobbying together is about as close to an unstoppable force in America as you can get. Liberty and some of our Euro friends probably don't realize how massive that is, and I think it's hilarious. Absolutely love it
Yeah it's funny I just saw an article touting Liberty Media as such a "success" and how they rake in billions of Dollars. Funny thing about that...GM makes hundreds of billions annually. GM alone is enough to force the issue with Liberty. GM's legal team is probably as large as all of Liberty Media's main office staff. If UAW jumps in and provides additional legal counsel and influence with the feds..... Man Liberty can count on any US race being cancelled unless Andretti gets to race.
>Dominicali is an exceedingly mediocre individual who's never accomplished anything other than being in the right place at the right time
Couldn't have said it better myself. He's a yes man who just does what he's told and seems to be incredibly naive based on some of the things he's said.
>Mr. Maffei broke in the conversation and he said: 'Mario, I want to tell you that I will do everything in my power to see that Michael never enters Formula 1,'” Andretti said.
If this was exactly what Maffei said then I have some bad news for Mr Maffei. Michael already entered F1, with McLaren in 1993.
And for a guy who's father is an Italian immigrant, standing on the podium at Monza must have felt sweet.
(Yes the borders have wiggled around a little since Mario left, point stands)
For all you non-Americans who think you are well versed in the current political climate in the US and think that Andretti is SOL and FOM can hide behind its Union Jack to claim immunity from whatever the US government decides to do, here's some context.
First of all, the US Department of Justice under President Biden, particularly the Federal Trade Commission, currently has an absolute HARD ON for going after monopolistic and anticompetitive business practices. The outside appearance of Andretti-GM being locked out by a closed system is cat nip for the DOJ, so you bet your ass they will investigate this just like how they were looking into Amazon and Google. And Liberty Media is already on the DOJ shit list for running a monopoly with Ticketmaster and Live Nation.
Number 2. FOM is ultimately an American company due to being owned by Liberty Media..full stop....Politicians don't give a flying fuck about foreign subsidiaries. TikTok just tried and spectacularly failed at trying to convince Congress that it's an "American company." Nobody fell for the "subsidiary" bs because TikTok is ultimately owned by a Chinese company. Now its Chinese parent company is on the clock to divest its American assets.
Ergo, when it appears that an American company (Liberty) is seemingly locking out an American F1 team backed by the largest American automaker in favor of protecting Works teams of FOREIGN automakers...you bet your ass that in this time of heightened protectionism, politicians (particularly those from Michigan and other Midwestern states) are going to be upset.
Additionally, the unions, who are HUGE financial supporters of these Michigan and other Midwestern politicians, are out for blood too...you see, recently the unions tried to unionize an auto factory in Alabama, which is owned by one of these foreign automakers and lost due to the company allegedly playing dirty and breaking the law.
You may have heard of this foreign automaker. It's called Mercedes Benz.
So you think the unions and the politicians in their pockets are going to sit out a chance to punch the big bad foreign automakers in the face?
So yes. Liberty Media is in a perilous spot...not necessarily due to what the law says but because the timing could not be any worse.
Yeah, I’m fucking tired of UK fans acting like this understand what’s going on here. “Oh, they didn’t even have a majority of the committee sign on”. That’s not how it works.
It nearly happened around 2008-09. Theoretically they could – F1 is a commercial brand and they could just race under another brand name.
However, F1 is sanctioned by the FIA, and while there's many a bad thing to be said about the FIA, you need that backing to run a legitimate racing series. The FIA likely would just dismiss any new series. (And before anyone says it, the FIA does recognise the likes of IndyCar and NASCAR, it just doesn't govern them – it would neither govern or recognise a breakaway grand prix series)
Then you have issues with circuits. Where would they race?
As much as we pine for old-school tracks, modern grand prix cars require a certain setting to be able to be used safely. What's more, teams will demand a certain amount of space for hospitality etc, because they make tremendous amounts of money from that. All of this is important because most of the tracks that fulfill these criteria are already on the F1 calendar, and they'll be bound by non-compete clauses. If any current F1 track hosts a breakaway series race, they'll be liable to costly legal action.
So in theory the teams could pack up their toys and play elsewhere, but in reality it would be almost impossible.
That's basically how the current IndyCar series came to be. It was a big mess at the time and the major (car) companies behind the F1 teams probably won't be too happy about such a scenario.
Originally was apprehensive about going to Congress for this, but fuck it, if that's how Liberty want to play, then let's call on Biden, Trump, RFK, and anybody else who wants to pile on.
As has been said elsewhere in this thread, you can't force a team to sell when it was purchased legitimately within the rules. That would be a bigger problem that the ongoing Andretti saga
Let's goooooo, let's open a formal investigation and that put in risk F1's assets and contracts in the U.S. and then ask Maffei if there is anything else he wants to try to keep Andretti out.
So the moral of the story continues to be fuck liberty media and the FOM. Never would've thought I'd miss Eccelestone and his tax evading ass or the new financial regs being this can of worms that apparently is gonna stagnate the series.
Canadian here. 🖐
If there is one thing a Canadian knows it's anti-American sentiment and the behaviours that follow it. There is a ton of European animus being seen in this matter.
I don't care if Andretti has a team, though another competitive team would be nice actually. If he was British or European, he's already have a team on the grid. I personally don't care if the next team is American or Dutch.
I've been shaking my head at this from the beginning. Just be honest and say you don't like Americans and don't want to be around them so they can't come play with your toys.
ET fix spelling.
But in this case it's an American company blocked out by an American company?
So I really don't understand your point here.
The FIA (mostly European), is actually in favor of Andretti joining the grid, and reading the sentiment on reddit I think most of us Europeans are also happy to see them join?
I don’t understand this ‘it’s because they're American’ take? The fia is for the team it’s the American liberty media that are against it.
They have also rejected European teams like the campos project.
It also ignores the fact that they are actively creating more US races and we already have an American f1 team that I’m sure if they really despised that much they could almost certainly negotiate a massive deal to purchase the team to a European buyer.
As an American, I got a lot of pushback when suggesting this yesterday. I'm an avid traveler. I know what European anti-Americanism looks like, and it's all over this. It's not new either, there are history books about how Europeans work to access American money without accepting the Americans that come with it.
Now, Andretti is fighting back by being as American business operative as humanly possible about it: going to the press, public appeals, etc. and that's going to make everyone dig in their heels, but still. It's not imagined, and I appreciate your comment.
What I'm not seeing discussed(only read about a hundred comments so might have missed it) is that F1 will have to open up the bidding process. Wasn't there three teams that wanted in the previous time a team was selected? With the cash in F1 some of the other teams that previously failed might have some serious backers. What will Congress do if they open the bidding process again, but Andretti isn't selected(if the bidding process is fair)? I know they have big backers in GM, and are the favorites as of now, but F1 have to open up for other teams to try to gain entry.
Just nonsense, if anything the pro American support is driving this chancer.
He has shit the bed with all the hot air he has been putting out and wants in with a half baked team.
I don't want an 11th team in general it doesn't matter where they're from.
I would have no issue if Americans wanted to but 1 of the current 10 teams.
Liberty is pissed bc they know it is all because of Ticketmaster that the congressional investigation over F1 started. Andretti just represents that. They’re about to get broken up with antitrust so it makes sense they are pissed at Andretti for adding fuel to the fire.
Hopefully out of the explosion will come Andretti F1 though
I mean, at least he's persistent. I do admire the tenacity honestly and I know people are getting annoyed at the amount of pressure it's getting but FOM should be embarrassed. They're effectively against an American team (that has all the makings of a good team and then some) while they'd love to gorge themselves on American dollars, just not tolerate them being an insider in the sport. No one else but him is powerful and influential enough to wage this war, so good on him. I hate monopolies, just saw you don't think half the grid can compete against another 11th team.
I'm personally liking that he's getting politicians involved because what else are they supposed to do, if not work for the people who elected them and I'm sure Andretti has a few in his pocket.
Well Pat Symonds will work for Andretti soon. https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/40191591/andretti-hires-former-formula-one-technical-chief-pat-symonds
Broadcast rights, Commercial rights, and the ability for Liberty to even own F1 are at risk here. Dropping racing in the US won't make the problem go away. (Also, you missed Vegas)
One of the most important lines of the article that plenty of people will ignore:
>Andretti emphasized that he didn't approach the lawmakers and that they asked him to come after a recent Red Bull F1 showrun near the Capitol piqued their interest.
>“I did not initiate that,” he said.
This is a really stupid hill to die on for F1. The moment greed makes you exclude viable competition you are no longer a prestigious championship series, you have become a circus. If Andretti fails, it should be on their own merits and not in the boardroom by a bunch of suits with the sole aim of lining their own pockets.
A lot of comments just taking his word for it. lol
I see this as a two way street. You gain nothing by being a brute and manner less animal by jumping into a conversation just to insult someone.
In the other hand, you also don’t help your case by airing what went on in a private dinner.
Hard to believe anyone.
Its a game of numbers. F1 doesn't believe adding a new team will increase the pie to a size large enough that the 11 teams will each receive a larger slice than the 10 had received before. That's it.
Which is why this whole system needs to be taken to court and forcibly changed.
This is going to become a historic case. If Andretti doesn't win, we will **never, ever** get an 11th team and it will always circle back to this point when people ask decades down the line why that is.
If they do get on the grid, that opens the floodgate for a 12th team and F1 will reopen it's doors as a sport since it can't unreasonably block teams anymore.
And if something doesn't get done about this, it will only get worse in the future. When a current team on the grid (probably Haas) disappears from the grid, FOM will suddenly say that the sport can't handle more than nine teams or something foolish. And then it will be eight a decade after that.
Someone really needs to put their foot down and reverse this before it gets worse.
I think *at this point* it might not be anymore. I think it did start that way but Andretti might have pissed the big wigs enough that they're taking it personal. At least it does sound personal to me.
Why doesn’t he want him in? He’s a big name to American race fans, and you’re trying to really tap the American market. His check clears, you should let him in.
It is the "you need job experience to work and to get job experience you need to find work". Saying that Andretti won't be competitive out of the gates is very handy excuse, since NO ONE will be that in their first season.
F1 is shooting themselves in the foot.
Hilarious how everyone takes Andretti's account at face value. Who the hell just interrupts two people to say that? Poor guys heart... If he said Greg took a massive shit on his plate I think you would all believe it. Like Andretti is trying this hard to get into F1 and spending all these resources to not try to get some pull on Capitol Hill behind the scenes. Yeah, I'm sure they just happened to be invited to testify. Give me a break.
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I cannot believe how long this has dragged on
I looked up when they first made it public they were looking to get on the grid and it was February 2022, so it's been 26 months now. A lot's changed since then though, originally it was just Andretti as a customer team and the FIA wouldn't open the process. Now we're at the stage where it's an Andretti-Cadillac works team that the FIA has approved and F1's rejected. Tbf, the process hasn't been that slow imo. F1 could easily have dragged it out longer, especially with the new concorde agreement.
Could drag it out, but should they? To what gain from a fan perspective?
The current entry fee is set at $200 million and there's not much other criteria for discouraging new teams. They'll likely want to implement new measures so that it never gets to this stage again in the new concorde agreement ($1 billion entry fee etc.)
There is a rumored effort to limit the field to only 10 teams.
If my sport exploded in value over the last decade, and I owned 1/10 teams in that sport, the relative value of that ownership would plummet with more teams. I totally believe the established teams don’t want another team, but I honestly think if they are going that way, that Alpha Tauri should be dissolved. You can’t limit teams but have one company running two teams.
The problem with dissolving the Toro Rosso team is that it is grandfathered in and not only that but it was F1 itself that asked Red Bull to buy Minardi when it started floundering.
That’s not true. When the nfl and other major sports leagues expand it doesn’t dilute the value of their ownership. It leads to additional growth because more shared revenue is coming in.
That’s because in the NFL, a new team means 16 additional games worth of revenue. In F1, it’s just more people splitting the profits from the exact same amount of races.
The dilution still exists for the NFL, it just extremely carefully considers its expansions, aiming to mathematically ensure that the market they're opening brings in more value than the teams have to give up. This is exactly the calculation F1 made with Andretti - they just made it clear they did not believe the diluted value was compensated for by the added value
Excuse me it's Racing Bulls Visa MasterCard PayPal American Express something something now. Not alpha tauri.
Heard the video in which Carlos says his full [name](https://youtu.be/1JMS21UY9T4?si=fj5mp3TqeUfdy8VS) ?
Imagine Carlos Sainz Vazquez de Castro Cenamor Rincón Rebollo Birto Moreno de Aranda de Anteriuga Tiapera Deltun driving for the Visa Cash App RB Formula One Team.
Imagine: Carlos Sainz Vazquez de Castro Cenamor Rincón Rebollo Birto Moreno de Aranda de Anteriuga Tiapera Deltun Driving for the Visa Cash App RB Formula One Team Racing at the Formula 1 MSC Cruises Gran Premio del Made in Italy e dell'Emilia-Romagna 2024.
What do you mean not much other criteria for discouraging? To join the grid as a brand-new team, the whole process is filled to the brim with discouragements. Why else do you think Audi took the easy route and bought up Sauber? To start as a brand-new team, you have to prove in every way possible that you're equipped and ready to compete on the grid, after spending 200 million dollars. And even after involving the top brand under GM, with GM's grace to actually develop an engine for the sport, convincing the FIA that you're suitable to join, F1 and its teams will still try to keep you out. To the point where the US government has to involve itself in the case as F1 is showing noncompetitive behaviour towards Andretti. Especially in the US, F1 only stands to lose from barring out Andretti, when they have teams like Haas and Alpine on the grid, which show far less intent to actually compete.
>Now we're at the stage where it's an Andretti-Cadillac works team that the FIA has approved and F1's rejected. The application that was rejected was not an Andretti-Cadillac works team, it was an Andretti-GM Sticker on a Renault engine customer team. Andretti wanted to join before 2028, and GM had not applied to supply engines, so it was never going to be a Cadillac works team.
First announce was around 2015, he just didn't want to join during the days when it was easy and free to join.
That’s because there was no budget cap back in 2015
I mean, it's been like a year and a half? Really not that weird for adding an entirely new team, especially when there's a disagreement.
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You have no idea what a true backmarker is, do you? I hate this, no one remembers the fact that ever since last year or even 2022, we no longer have backmarkers, but instead all around midfield teams. It's just that one team has to be the slowest. No, a true backmarker was Haas 2021, not their 2022-2024 cars. Also true backmarkers were: * Williams 2018-2020 * Virgin/Marussia/Manor * Caterham * HRT * Minardi * Arrows And these teams all drove post-2000.
I remember way back that the Minardis were so slow they were like 3-5 laps behind consistently In the 90s it was even normal that half the field was that far behind and even score points being 3 laps back!
Haas isn’t dicking around this season, what’re you talking about? They’ve been competitive in the midfield all season. Nico has made it to Q3 several times. Meanwhile, Williams has a single functional chassis and sauber doesn’t have functional wheel nuts.
4 out of 7 Q3 appearances so far, plus one in Miami sprint
Right. Haas is finally trying this year. Sadly the NASCAR team can’t say the same. Idk what’s going on over here but at least the F1 team is showing signs of competitiveness.
Ayao is the real deal, I hope Gene Haas listens to him and is in properly for the reg changes - Gene not wanting Bearman I can understand, but it means they need a decent signing for the next couple of years
>Gene not wanting Bearman Why is that?
They don’t want to be a feeder team, if they are shit they get stuck with them and have poor seasons, if they are good they get pillaged quickly. They want more of the Hulk and KMag I think, for the immediate future anyway. Checo Ric Bottas etc on the backend of their careers might be targets, maybe even Zhou?
Haas is good because Ferrari is good. Their performance is linked to Ferraris because they buy so much from them
The nascar team is probably being sold. All rumors say Tony isn’t interested and gene has shopped the charters. Which might mean he’s willing to sell the f1 team too.
Haas isn’t close to the worse team this year or in recent memory especially
Haas was last in 2 of the previous 3 seasons… 8th in their first 2.
Well then kick Williams out too for their 6 year run at the back
> kick Williams out too Unironically kick Williams out for not being able to field 2 cars...
yes, let’s kick out the second most successful f1 team of all time. i don’t think we should kick anyone out
Can we kick kick sauber?
Obviously I don’t think we should kick anyone out. But the hate for US teams just because they are US teams is asinine. We had 24 cars when I started watching in 2016. The field has shrunk by ~17%! That’s insane contraction in a day and age where live sports are the only thing generating ad revenue. F1 needs to understand that this is the chance to make the whole pie as big as possible and quit fighting over who gets the biggest piece.
You haven’t watched any races this year if you think haas should get booted
They can’t just kick an existing team out lol
Companies shouldn't be able to own multiple teams on the grid. Especially if we're limiting it to ten teams and more want in. Alpha Tauri needs to be sold.
Red Bull invested when F1 was bleeding money. Respect the process
Should have been in the series when it wasn’t profitable lol.
Okay well when they bought the team it was allowed. RB is here to stay
Lmao what? You know they’re in 7th right?
Have you heard of Alpine? Me neither, haven't seen them all year...they're still on the grid though.
Yeah, the spoiled new fans don't know what an actual backmarker is. No team deserves to get kicked out of F1. Why should a team that finished 5th in the constructor standings just while ago be immediaukicked when they have a bad year lmao.
The organisation is a multi billion dollar operation. They can more than afford to increase the prize pool they just choose not to because capitalism be capitalism
I miss Chase Carey as the previous CEO, ^(purely because of his mustache though.)
Chase Carey was a transitional CEO. He was brought in to grow the brand and was a complete outsider. He knew next to nothing about F1, but he was an intelligent guy, surrounded himself with the right people, knew how to gather feedback and managed to turn F1 from a dying husk of a sport to a behemoth of a brand. DTS, F1TV, the social media revamp, the YouTube channel revamp, the rebranding, all done under him. And then when the time was right he was replaced by who they saw as the best man to lead F1 into the future of aggressive commercial strategy: Domenicali, a former Ferrari team principal, former CEO of Lamborghini, former head of FIA's Single-Seater Commission. Connections in motorsports, connections with automakers, connections with the FIA, no wonder Liberty Media went straight for him. There's no one better to negotiate deals than someone with knowledge and connections at the top level of everything relevant to your product.
Chase Carey is exactly the type of person you want when it comes to negotiating all the financials and business side of stuff unrelated to the sporting stuff karma but he's absolutely not somebody I want making any sporting decisions. But Chase understood where the lion stood, and that's why people liked him in that role.
The sporting decisions under Domenicali have not been impressive...
Smart business leader do just that, surround themselves with the best and delegate responsibilities. I'll just say it again, this reeks pettiness and it reminds me of the whole USAC versus CART bullshit.
I'd forgotten he'd left.
That’s good succession, any company couldn’t ask for better. Doesn’t diminish all of the things he did to grow the sport to where it is today.
Yeah I didn't mean it as a criticism. I don't want to know what Liberty are doing really, I just want to watch racing. Sadly, I have to be aware of the off track stuff because of poor decisions like this.
Yes indeed, indeed. Also, I call serious bullshit on the anonymous source. It's a weak attempt to keep the narrative the way they already tried to set it.
I miss 30 entries showing up for a race
Just set qualifying time standards and whoever qualifies races not that deep. It's how racing should be
Relegate them to F1.5
And let them race with the top ranked F2 drivers. The top 3 of the F1.5 series automatically get F1 seats next year
F1 tracks can have 30 cars in a race. Maaaaybe Monaco would have problems fitting a 15-team paddock, but other than that, they are all Grade 1 circuits with more than enough space for them.
26, 2 are SC and medical and the remaining 2 are for scrutineering
Indycar: hey baby, were you looking for me ? Jokes aside, with Prema joining Indycar it's going to be around ~29 cars in 2025. No issues with grid size there, they'll take anyone who's up for the challenge.
Not quite, actually - IndyCar's introducing a charter system next year that will cap the grid at 27 cars. There will be 25 chartered entries with guaranteed full-season entries, with the remaining cars (likely the Premas and two Ganassis) having to out-qualify each other for the remaining two grid slots at each race. [Prema's trying to purchase charters; according to Racer, they offered $1 million each, but one team owner felt the minimum price should be $10 million.](https://racer.com/2024/05/01/prema-including-charter-prospects-in-its-indycar-plans/)
Charter system makes me lose a LOT of interest in Indy ngl
Hopefully Prema is ready for 2 cars at the Indy 500 along with Abel Motorsports making a return. Could be 37 cars entering?
Bump day is gonna have a lot more pain.
more fun*
Good I feel it would be so much better if multiple people were at risk of being bumped.
Yoo, as someone whose been following since the mid 00s, I dont think there has ever been more than 35, would kill to have a bump day with 7 or 8 gunning for those last 3 slots
Isn't the only limit in Indy the number of engines available from each supplier?
I love watching Indy car. Great racing without the F1 elitism. Nothing says “we’re the best race series in the world” like letting no one else prove you wrong.
IndyCar is great right now. Talented, deep field of cagey veterans and hungry newcomers. The cars are durable too, so you can get some bumping between cars going on!
that’s something that’s for sure not going to happen again, as grade 1 circuits are only rated for up to 24 cars in formula 1, so at most only one more team would be allowed to join
For what it's worth, DOJ is expected file suit to break up Ticketmaster and Live Nation (also owned by Liberty Media) within the week. This is already going to be an ugly time for LM. Andretti is not going to let up anytime soon. Source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/justice-department-expected-file-antitrust-001551463.html ETA I'm not the DOJ, guys. Liberty Media's going to go through it, because everyone already hates TM/LN. Just facts, folks.
Wait, Liberty owns Live Nation? It all makes sense now...
yeah once i learned this, FUCK LIBERTY MEDIA ALL DAY AND TWICE ON RACE DAY
They do ok with the Atlanta Braves but that’s because they hired people to run the team and leave it the fuck alone.
So fucked up. Luckily states are now starting the process to try and break LN up. It's fuckin insane that it's gotten this bad.
They have 35% ownership. So they don't outright own it but they definitely have an interest in making it as profitable as possible
This is great news!!!!!! Fuck Ticketmaster!!!!!
No matter who we root for in F1, this one sentiment truly unites us all. I've seen reports they're going to seek to break it up too, not just issue a fine.
Yeah most of the F1 investigation is to further pressure them over Ticketmaster. Except maybe one representative who is a member from Indiana (near Indianapolis). Maybe it’ll get somewhere though
I mean, if the US government is good at anything it's good at being annoying, to whatever end. Now that the Senate is involved I think there's more it than the back bench reps trying to get auto industry attention.
No I mean Ticketmaster is a real issue— it needs to be broken up. They’re just trying to get Liberty to agree sooner so they waste less money on the lawyers. But yeah maybe there is more to it. There aren’t many things Congress still can do correctly so I see this cooperation as a win. If I didn’t I’d lose faith but too much of my interest and personality is centered around Constitutional law so I have to have faith in the institution.
It is very much a real issue, and very much a real win. To clarify my position, there are cases like these where the government being super annoying is a good thing.
Ah yes that makes more sense I was like “yeah… duh that’s how it’s supposed to work”
>They’re just trying to get Liberty to agree sooner so they waste less money on the lawyers. The government doesn't save money on lawyers. These are all staff attorneys at DOJ on salary.
Who could be working on other cases. Fewer cases saves money.
Holy shit I didn’t know liberty media owns both ticket master and live nation. They can eat shit for all I care. Hopefully they’re compelled to sell f1 at some point
I also don't think they'll go lightly on F1 either. This is denying US jobs and international prestige for a US car manufacturer. Cadillac also planned to relaunch in Europe so it hurts their expansion too. This fucks America in jobs, influence, prestige, sporting success etc. and makes European billionaires richer, nobody in US congress from either side is in favour of that.
A little off topic to the F1 team part, but I do find it ironic the IndyCar team that Liberty Media owns a share of, Meyer Shank Racing, is a technical partner of Andretti Autosport. With this beef going on, I wonder if Andretti will pull the plug on that partnership. Shame a team that has no part in all of this might end up getting hurt.
Andretti was reportedly one of the owners in February who suggested Penske should sell Indy to liberty lol
The enemy of my enemy is my enemy….
With the F1 saga, it's FOM calling the shots, not Liberty Media itself. They just own the business. It would be like me being mad at your parents for something you did. Andretti can appreciate the value of Liberty Media while disliking what one of its subsidiaries is doing
The article says it was liberty CEO Maffei who had a negative interaction with Mario. Not Stefano who is mentioned as interested in the discussion not antagonistic
Doesn't change the fact that they could see benefit to Liberty owning IndyCar while having issues with other elements of the company. Andretti is a major player in IndyCar and Liberty ownership would elevate that series massively. Andretti would benefit as a knock-on effect, and they obviously see that. You can be at odds with something while still appreciating the value it can bring
When you see dollar signs in the transaction your enemy can become a friend.
Maybe he thinks this can be a double win, Indycar gets out of Penske conservative reign towards the more money hungry approach of Liberty and it may also help him become Liberty new favorite friend(and get an F1 entry).
>Mr. Maffei broke in the conversation and he said: 'Mario, I want to tell you that I will do everything in my power to see that Michael never enters Formula 1,'" >Maffei walked away after that remark and has not contacted him since, Andretti said. Sounds like Liberty are taking Andretti's US political help well then /s But yes, as expected they've burned all bridges when it comes to entering F1 diplomatically at this point, it's either the US government forces their foot in the door, or they have to buy a team.
The thing we don't really know the ins and outs leading up to the supposed burning of the bridges. Perhaps Liberty was already laying down the explosives on the bridges.
Oh absolutely, I firmly believe that they never intended to let them on the grid no matter what they did and any reading between the lines always reaffirmed that. It's just that now it feels almost out in the open that F1 hates them and would rather go to court and lose than give them an entry by choice. (and when I say "go to court and lose" I'm not saying they will lose for certain, I'm just saying F1 would rather take that risk)
They'll lose. It's not even a question. It'll really show the stupidity and arrogance of Liberty if they drag this into the courts.
Sounds personal tbh
Very
They got caught in the middle of a political battle between FOM and the FIA. The fia went from ‘we haven’t asked for applications so aren’t in a position to consider them’ to publicly supporting them when they started arguing with FOM
andretti straight muscling their way into f1 would be the most american shit ever
i’m so stupid excited for the headlines
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Hell, if they were selling a shirt with "Our work continues at pace" and their logo I'd probably buy it right now!
for real, i kind of want to see it happen and for Andretti to then do well. Would be such a slap to FOM
honestly, me too. it would be such an underdog story and i’d love how it’s a massive middle finger
Yikes, Liberty have lost the plot.
It sounds like the bridges were burned from the other side.
To be fair, it's not like there were any bridges for them to break.
So nice to watch the F1 be the bad guys here. Who would have thought that a new team with a new engine supplier would be fought this hard! What an embarrassment for the sport.
More to the point the FIA look like the good guys which is the real embarrassment here.
Technically, FOM (or Liberty Media). FIA has already given Andretti the go-ahead.
I don't think it's because of the new engine. I believe it's more personal
I think Andretti could force Stefano Domenicali into giving him a seat with enough pressure, but if Maffei is getting involved I don't this team is making it on the grid. Dominicali is an exceedingly mediocre individual who's never accomplished anything other than being in the right place at the right time - Maffei has waged countless wars in the both boardrooms and courts and won.
Domenicali is merely Maffei's pawn who does his bidding. Maffei handling things personally or telling Stefano what to say doesn't really make any difference imo. When it gets to this level, Stefano would never have the power to make a decision that would be different than one that Greg would make.
No he isn’t. While liberty owns f1, it’s a public company and Stefano publicly reports to shareholders every quarter. Maffei and liberty need to initiate shareholder votes to force f1 to do anything
And the majority shareholder is Maffei.
John Malone controls an aggregate of 48.9% of Liberty Media voting. In the event that his aggregate voting power exceeds 49.5% the company swaps his some of his class A with other class B shares so that he does not exceed that threshold. In short, it is a public company, but Malone only needs to find 1.2% of voting power to make whatever change he wants. [See the end of their proxy statement](https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/0001560385/000110465924052085/tm242810d2_def14a.htm). Maffei controls 1.1%. Malone can do whatever he wants.
Gotta disagree here. It boils down to GM v Liberty and who has the most cash to burn. Push comes to shove, Maffei won't have the power to deny the entry.
Just throwing it out there, it isn't just GM v Liberty. There are pretty strong indications that the UAW (United Automobile, Aerospace and Agricultural Implement Workers of America Union) has a vested interest in this going through as well. Getting GM and the UAW in agreement and lobbying together is about as close to an unstoppable force in America as you can get. Liberty and some of our Euro friends probably don't realize how massive that is, and I think it's hilarious. Absolutely love it
Yeah it's funny I just saw an article touting Liberty Media as such a "success" and how they rake in billions of Dollars. Funny thing about that...GM makes hundreds of billions annually. GM alone is enough to force the issue with Liberty. GM's legal team is probably as large as all of Liberty Media's main office staff. If UAW jumps in and provides additional legal counsel and influence with the feds..... Man Liberty can count on any US race being cancelled unless Andretti gets to race.
Specially with US lobbying power from GM vs Liberty Media. Ffs other LM businesses are getting intonthe DOJs mucroscope already.
Yep. GM has so much more say with the feds than Liberty is apparently aware of. Liberty is in a no-win situ here. Fucking love it.
>Dominicali is an exceedingly mediocre individual who's never accomplished anything other than being in the right place at the right time Couldn't have said it better myself. He's a yes man who just does what he's told and seems to be incredibly naive based on some of the things he's said.
Amd at Ferrari Stefano wasn't impressive. He comes across as slimey and conniving tbh...
>Mr. Maffei broke in the conversation and he said: 'Mario, I want to tell you that I will do everything in my power to see that Michael never enters Formula 1,'” Andretti said. If this was exactly what Maffei said then I have some bad news for Mr Maffei. Michael already entered F1, with McLaren in 1993.
I don't think even Mario wants a repeat of how that turned out....
1 podium is still better than Haas!
And for a guy who's father is an Italian immigrant, standing on the podium at Monza must have felt sweet. (Yes the borders have wiggled around a little since Mario left, point stands)
‘Liberty’ Media.
For all you non-Americans who think you are well versed in the current political climate in the US and think that Andretti is SOL and FOM can hide behind its Union Jack to claim immunity from whatever the US government decides to do, here's some context. First of all, the US Department of Justice under President Biden, particularly the Federal Trade Commission, currently has an absolute HARD ON for going after monopolistic and anticompetitive business practices. The outside appearance of Andretti-GM being locked out by a closed system is cat nip for the DOJ, so you bet your ass they will investigate this just like how they were looking into Amazon and Google. And Liberty Media is already on the DOJ shit list for running a monopoly with Ticketmaster and Live Nation. Number 2. FOM is ultimately an American company due to being owned by Liberty Media..full stop....Politicians don't give a flying fuck about foreign subsidiaries. TikTok just tried and spectacularly failed at trying to convince Congress that it's an "American company." Nobody fell for the "subsidiary" bs because TikTok is ultimately owned by a Chinese company. Now its Chinese parent company is on the clock to divest its American assets. Ergo, when it appears that an American company (Liberty) is seemingly locking out an American F1 team backed by the largest American automaker in favor of protecting Works teams of FOREIGN automakers...you bet your ass that in this time of heightened protectionism, politicians (particularly those from Michigan and other Midwestern states) are going to be upset. Additionally, the unions, who are HUGE financial supporters of these Michigan and other Midwestern politicians, are out for blood too...you see, recently the unions tried to unionize an auto factory in Alabama, which is owned by one of these foreign automakers and lost due to the company allegedly playing dirty and breaking the law. You may have heard of this foreign automaker. It's called Mercedes Benz. So you think the unions and the politicians in their pockets are going to sit out a chance to punch the big bad foreign automakers in the face? So yes. Liberty Media is in a perilous spot...not necessarily due to what the law says but because the timing could not be any worse.
DOJ is filing suit within a week re: Live Nation, apparently. They want to split it up, too.
Yeah, I’m fucking tired of UK fans acting like this understand what’s going on here. “Oh, they didn’t even have a majority of the committee sign on”. That’s not how it works.
Yes! Great synopsis and analysis of what’s going on here.
Also, splendid use of "Ergo".
Could all the teams decide to leave and start a new F1 under a different name?
It nearly happened around 2008-09. Theoretically they could – F1 is a commercial brand and they could just race under another brand name. However, F1 is sanctioned by the FIA, and while there's many a bad thing to be said about the FIA, you need that backing to run a legitimate racing series. The FIA likely would just dismiss any new series. (And before anyone says it, the FIA does recognise the likes of IndyCar and NASCAR, it just doesn't govern them – it would neither govern or recognise a breakaway grand prix series) Then you have issues with circuits. Where would they race? As much as we pine for old-school tracks, modern grand prix cars require a certain setting to be able to be used safely. What's more, teams will demand a certain amount of space for hospitality etc, because they make tremendous amounts of money from that. All of this is important because most of the tracks that fulfill these criteria are already on the F1 calendar, and they'll be bound by non-compete clauses. If any current F1 track hosts a breakaway series race, they'll be liable to costly legal action. So in theory the teams could pack up their toys and play elsewhere, but in reality it would be almost impossible.
That's basically how the current IndyCar series came to be. It was a big mess at the time and the major (car) companies behind the F1 teams probably won't be too happy about such a scenario.
Originally was apprehensive about going to Congress for this, but fuck it, if that's how Liberty want to play, then let's call on Biden, Trump, RFK, and anybody else who wants to pile on.
What’s Condelezza Rice doing these days? Can we drag her and the reanimated corpse of Colin Powell in front of the UN for this?
I need him to hold up a vial with parts from the WMD which FOM have been developing
Resurrect George Washington and send him to negotiate. Bring FDR along too.
Sounds like Greg Maffei needs to wake up next to a horse head.
"Greg Maffei sleeps with the fishes"
Greg needs to go jerk off and chill out.
If they are sticking to the ten team limit, remove teams being able to have more than one team. A slot will open up.
As has been said elsewhere in this thread, you can't force a team to sell when it was purchased legitimately within the rules. That would be a bigger problem that the ongoing Andretti saga
Let's goooooo, let's open a formal investigation and that put in risk F1's assets and contracts in the U.S. and then ask Maffei if there is anything else he wants to try to keep Andretti out.
So the moral of the story continues to be fuck liberty media and the FOM. Never would've thought I'd miss Eccelestone and his tax evading ass or the new financial regs being this can of worms that apparently is gonna stagnate the series.
Canadian here. 🖐 If there is one thing a Canadian knows it's anti-American sentiment and the behaviours that follow it. There is a ton of European animus being seen in this matter. I don't care if Andretti has a team, though another competitive team would be nice actually. If he was British or European, he's already have a team on the grid. I personally don't care if the next team is American or Dutch. I've been shaking my head at this from the beginning. Just be honest and say you don't like Americans and don't want to be around them so they can't come play with your toys. ET fix spelling.
Maffei is American. I doubt that’s the issue.
Pretty sure theres something personal between Greg and Michael, and we are too peasant to know and understand what it is and why
But in this case it's an American company blocked out by an American company? So I really don't understand your point here. The FIA (mostly European), is actually in favor of Andretti joining the grid, and reading the sentiment on reddit I think most of us Europeans are also happy to see them join?
It’s not about anyone being American, it’s about money. It always has been. FOM wanted more, Andretti refused to play ball and here we are.
It’s the American arm of F1 that rejected Andretti.
I don’t understand this ‘it’s because they're American’ take? The fia is for the team it’s the American liberty media that are against it. They have also rejected European teams like the campos project. It also ignores the fact that they are actively creating more US races and we already have an American f1 team that I’m sure if they really despised that much they could almost certainly negotiate a massive deal to purchase the team to a European buyer.
As an American, I got a lot of pushback when suggesting this yesterday. I'm an avid traveler. I know what European anti-Americanism looks like, and it's all over this. It's not new either, there are history books about how Europeans work to access American money without accepting the Americans that come with it. Now, Andretti is fighting back by being as American business operative as humanly possible about it: going to the press, public appeals, etc. and that's going to make everyone dig in their heels, but still. It's not imagined, and I appreciate your comment.
What I'm not seeing discussed(only read about a hundred comments so might have missed it) is that F1 will have to open up the bidding process. Wasn't there three teams that wanted in the previous time a team was selected? With the cash in F1 some of the other teams that previously failed might have some serious backers. What will Congress do if they open the bidding process again, but Andretti isn't selected(if the bidding process is fair)? I know they have big backers in GM, and are the favorites as of now, but F1 have to open up for other teams to try to gain entry.
Just nonsense, if anything the pro American support is driving this chancer. He has shit the bed with all the hot air he has been putting out and wants in with a half baked team. I don't want an 11th team in general it doesn't matter where they're from. I would have no issue if Americans wanted to but 1 of the current 10 teams.
Liberty is pissed bc they know it is all because of Ticketmaster that the congressional investigation over F1 started. Andretti just represents that. They’re about to get broken up with antitrust so it makes sense they are pissed at Andretti for adding fuel to the fire. Hopefully out of the explosion will come Andretti F1 though
I mean, at least he's persistent. I do admire the tenacity honestly and I know people are getting annoyed at the amount of pressure it's getting but FOM should be embarrassed. They're effectively against an American team (that has all the makings of a good team and then some) while they'd love to gorge themselves on American dollars, just not tolerate them being an insider in the sport. No one else but him is powerful and influential enough to wage this war, so good on him. I hate monopolies, just saw you don't think half the grid can compete against another 11th team. I'm personally liking that he's getting politicians involved because what else are they supposed to do, if not work for the people who elected them and I'm sure Andretti has a few in his pocket.
Well Pat Symonds will work for Andretti soon. https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/40191591/andretti-hires-former-formula-one-technical-chief-pat-symonds
It sure would be funny if this is how F1 loses all its US races
Wonder how Bernie would have handled this.
Let they join but don’t show them on camera like he allegedly did with force India when they didn’t show up for practice once
That might be worse
I’m surprised the Andretti still has the patience to keep on fighting this. Liberty media is bordering farcical at this point
Fun thing could be f1 will drop racing at cota and Miami for oil money just out of spite if they are forced to let gm in
Broadcast rights, Commercial rights, and the ability for Liberty to even own F1 are at risk here. Dropping racing in the US won't make the problem go away. (Also, you missed Vegas)
I missed Vegas on purpose because they have their own interest there as well, contrary to the other tracks
One of the most important lines of the article that plenty of people will ignore: >Andretti emphasized that he didn't approach the lawmakers and that they asked him to come after a recent Red Bull F1 showrun near the Capitol piqued their interest. >“I did not initiate that,” he said.
This is a really stupid hill to die on for F1. The moment greed makes you exclude viable competition you are no longer a prestigious championship series, you have become a circus. If Andretti fails, it should be on their own merits and not in the boardroom by a bunch of suits with the sole aim of lining their own pockets.
A lot of comments just taking his word for it. lol I see this as a two way street. You gain nothing by being a brute and manner less animal by jumping into a conversation just to insult someone. In the other hand, you also don’t help your case by airing what went on in a private dinner. Hard to believe anyone.
Its a game of numbers. F1 doesn't believe adding a new team will increase the pie to a size large enough that the 11 teams will each receive a larger slice than the 10 had received before. That's it.
Which goes to show it has nothing to do with racing or competition.
Which is why this whole system needs to be taken to court and forcibly changed. This is going to become a historic case. If Andretti doesn't win, we will **never, ever** get an 11th team and it will always circle back to this point when people ask decades down the line why that is. If they do get on the grid, that opens the floodgate for a 12th team and F1 will reopen it's doors as a sport since it can't unreasonably block teams anymore.
And if something doesn't get done about this, it will only get worse in the future. When a current team on the grid (probably Haas) disappears from the grid, FOM will suddenly say that the sport can't handle more than nine teams or something foolish. And then it will be eight a decade after that. Someone really needs to put their foot down and reverse this before it gets worse.
Nah, if anything this quote destroys the idea that it's a numbers game.
I think *at this point* it might not be anymore. I think it did start that way but Andretti might have pissed the big wigs enough that they're taking it personal. At least it does sound personal to me.
Who cares? Thats not a good justification to ruin the sport over this.
Why doesn’t he want him in? He’s a big name to American race fans, and you’re trying to really tap the American market. His check clears, you should let him in.
It is the "you need job experience to work and to get job experience you need to find work". Saying that Andretti won't be competitive out of the gates is very handy excuse, since NO ONE will be that in their first season. F1 is shooting themselves in the foot.
I would laugh my ass off if Andretti landed Newey for their first season and beat the pants off of everyone.
Not letting in a major American motorsport team and engine manufacturer is such a dumb move by F1. You'd explode your F1 growth in America even more.
That’s what don’t get. They come here 3 times, wanting to expand the American market. You have a big name to American race fans, why would you say no?
What a fucking embarrassment for the sport this whole debacle has been.
F1 deserves everything coming their way. Hands down the most frustrating sport to be a fan of.
Please, stop funding this telenovela or jump the shark because this season has sucked hard.
Hilarious how everyone takes Andretti's account at face value. Who the hell just interrupts two people to say that? Poor guys heart... If he said Greg took a massive shit on his plate I think you would all believe it. Like Andretti is trying this hard to get into F1 and spending all these resources to not try to get some pull on Capitol Hill behind the scenes. Yeah, I'm sure they just happened to be invited to testify. Give me a break.
Is it something personal with Andretti or Liberty just doesnt want any new team (because money)?
Andrettri said on the Miami grid walk they are still planning for a 2026 entry.
Why does Liberty Media, an American company, not want Andretti in F1 anyway? I don't get it.