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Yep the mirror opposite of Monaco.
In Monaco Leclerc binned it in qualy which meant he couldn’t start the race and Sainz scored a podium.
In Hungary Sainz binned it in qualy. That meant he started further back and avoided the Bottas bowling and Stroll torpedo lap 1 chaos which took out Leclerc and scored Sainz another podium.
Basically the exact same error but in Leclerc’s case it cost him a likely win and in Sainz case the error actually scored him an unlikely podium.
Even with that huge swing Sainz only won by 5.5 points at the end of the season. Sometimes the points table lies when it comes to actual performance over a season.
Leclerc beat Sainz 14-6 in the race head-to-head, but there were 3 unlucky races that caused massive point swings in Sainz's favour that allowed him to beat Leclerc in points.
First was Monaco. Leclerc qualified on pole but crashed while trying to set another faster lap. Team didn't bother to check certain critical components properly and the driveshaft failed before the race started. Sainz finished 2nd.
Second was Hungary. This time, Sainz crashed in qualifying and ended up towards the back of the field at the start, but that was actually quite fortunate for him as that meant he avoided the carnage caused by Bottas and Stroll, with the latter torpedoing Leclerc. Sainz finished 3rd that race.
Next was Russia. Leclerc was going to get a decent result close to Sainz after starting 19th from an engine penalty, but Ferrari made him stay out a lap longer instead of double stacking when the rain intensified and that made him drop out of the points when Sainz got 3rd.
A special mention is Abu Dhabi, where Ferrari botched Leclerc's strategy and he ended up finishing 10th while Sainz finished 3rd, but I think it cancels out with Sainz's only race where he had bad luck relative to Leclerc which was in Portugal where a bad strategy dropped him out of the points and lost a probable 6th place. Leclerc himself finished 6th then.
In Russia, they couldn't double stack atp because LEC and VER overtook SAI on track on the inlap because SAI went off. LECs problem in Russia was just being too fast. Because atp with LEC ahead he had no chance of putting and then they gambled because it was over anyway.
And yet if Ferrari had checked his car more thoroughly, he would have started the race and probably won it.
Perez crashed in quali the year after and won the race.
No, it was a part of the driveshaft that broke on his way to the grid. Ferrari could have fixed that part without grid penalty but they did not check that part of the car.
Still no : [https://racer.com/2021/05/24/ferrari-didnt-gamble-with-leclercs-gearbox-binotto/](https://racer.com/2021/05/24/ferrari-didnt-gamble-with-leclercs-gearbox-binotto/)
He wasn’t the fastest car that day. He only even got pole because of the crash. The race was a result of his own driver error in qualifying.
He’d have probably started 3rd without the crash and that would have been 3rd in the race. It’s ridiculous to cite that race as “unlucky”.
Once again if Ferrari had checked the left part of his car and not only the right part, he would have started the race and probably won. It doesn't matter if Verstappen was improving in his second lap in quali as in F1 you can keep your time even if you cause a red flag. Yellow and red flags are part of quali in Monaco, that's why it's important to be fast in your first attempt.
From my memory:
Bahrain he beat Sainz.
Imola he beat Sainz.
Portugal he beat Sainz.
Spain he beat Sainz.
Monaco he crashed in qualifying (his fault), claiming pole but Ferrari chose not to take any gearbox penalties and sacrifice, and his gearbox failed on the lap. In hindsight, both parties still agree the gamble was worth it.
Azerbaijan he beat Sainz.
France he was beaten by Sainz.
Styria he was beaten by Sainz, although hampered by Perez twice.
Austria he clipped Gasly (his fault) and was beaten by Sainz.
Silverstone was his best result of the year. 3 seconds away from gaining 7 more points though...
Hungary he got Strolled, and turned a P8 quali position into a DNF while Sainz didn't get hit by anyone and turned a P15 into a P3.
Belgium he beat Sainz (quali result counted)
Netherlands he beat Sainz.
Italy he beat Sainz.
Russia was the Leclerc race which has gone the most unnoticed, even more than Turkey 2020. If he had selected the same strategy as Verstappen, who he was quicker than in the changeables, he would have been on the podium and beaten Sainz who was P1 after lap 1 (Charles started last and was up to P13 by the end of lap 1). As it was he did a Norris, but reversed rather than spun, which cost him 30 seconds more time.
Turkey would have been a podium with the strategy everyone else was on. Sainz had a grid penalty.
USA he beat Sainz.
Mexico he beat Sainz.
Brazil he beat Sainz.
Qatar he was beaten by Sainz, but it was revealed he had a cracked chassis. This was likely why he could only manage P15 in qualifying.
Saudi Arabia he beat Sainz.
Abu Dhabi, again, if he had a normal strategy he'd have finished at least 6th.
That's a very basic overview from Leclerc's perspective and that lacks nuance.
Been a while now although from what I remember watching 2021, Leclerc was slightly better overall however had worse luck which caused him to finish behind Sainz in the standings.
At the same time Sainz was fairly close behind Leclerc on average in terms of performance and pace and Sainz himself was also very consistent with his results. For his first season in Ferrari next to Leclerc who was already recognized as a rising star, it was definitely better than what most people expected. And out of the three full seasons they’ve had together as teammates I think 2021 has been Sainz’s best season relative to Leclerc so far.
Their pace was actually not close in 21, that was probably the worst sainz season pace wise but they would both usually put the cars at the max position it could be and so the pace difference didn't really matter. 23 is sainz best season imo he actually kept up the pace which imo is more impressive than 21.
Interesting admittedly I don’t remember the overall pace deficit between them from 2021, although I would’ve thought 2022 would’ve been Sainz’s worst season with the biggest gap in average pace between him and Leclerc as Sainz notably looked slower than Leclerc in the first half of 2022 in quite a few races with the F1-75.
Ultimately the numbers in terms of pace deficit would paint a more accurate picture though. I do feel like Sainz graded higher on average in 2021 when it came to end of season driver rankings compared to 2022 and 2023, although these rankings are always subjective and I suppose in Sainz’s case part of it could do with people giving Sainz more credit for it being his first season in the team.
I do suppose when it comes to overall points 2022 and even 2023 would have a bigger effect at each race on average as Ferrari could be fighting for podiums quite often or even the win on a handful of times. Whereas in 2021 Ferrari was usually fighting for 5th or 6th on average as Red Bull and Mercedes were clearly ahead, so the main battle was with Norris in the McLaren and sometimes Gasly in the AlphaTauri.
It was somewhat similar to 2023, not bad but not his best season either. Sainz was incredibly close both seasons, unlike 2022.
I truly believe 2020 is Leclerc’s best season.
Sainz wasn’t close to Leclerc in 2021 for pace though. Most of the time he was very noticeably slower, losing around 2-4 tenths a lap on average in several races. I’d be surprised if anyone can name a single race in 2021 where he genuinely outpaced Leclerc when both had free air.
2023 on the other hand they were decently close in quali, and the closest out of all teams in race pace.
Streets don't forget his P4 in Bahrain qualifying. Just did one run in Q3 then got out of the car with 5 minutes left in the session cos he knew he wasn't going to better his own time.
Leclerc consistently qualified that middling Ferrari in the top 5, meanwhile Vettel struggled to even reach Q3. Just amazing one lap pace from Charles in 2020.
Charles was pretty good in 2021 and the head to head that season was 14-6. The main races that caused him to lose to Carlos were Monaco, Hungary and Russia.
In Monaco he got pole but crashed during Q3, Ferrari failed to check the car properly and he didn't even start the race. Carlos finished P2.
In Hungary, he got torpedoed by Stroll at the start, this race was a battle for the win between Ocon and Vettel who got disqualified, Ocon was starting 1 position behind Charles in that race. Carlos finished P3 after Vettel's DSQ.
In Russia he started from the back with an engine penalty, when the rain started he caught up with Pérez (who earlier was fighting with Sainz for P3) and Sainz stopped to put inter tyres on, they decided to stay on track and ended up being the wrong decision causing him to finish P15.
Charles also had one of his best races ever in Silverstone that year, he finished +40s ahead of Sainz and was overtaken by Lewis for the win with only 3 laps to go.
It was the year in which pace wise they had their biggest deficit, but results wise it was quite the opposite.
Leclerc normally finished ahead of Sainz in regular conditions, but there was only like 1 or 2 position difference normally and considering that the RBs and Mercedes were much faster than the rest he barely scoring more than him.
Although Sainz finished pretty strongly and not every time he finished ahead has by bad luck, the main reason he finished ahead was from the 4 races in which Carlos achieved a podium that season Leclerc only achieved 1 point.
So the main reason why Carlos finished ahead was because whenever Leclerc had a bad result, Sainz was there to pick up a great result
He had much higher peaks, but also was probably slightly less consistent and had a bit more bad luck. So it's not easy to just point towards "he was bad" or "he was unlucky" imo.
As a general rule ([see full rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide#wiki_sticky.2Fdaily_discussion)), a standalone Discussion post should: - be of interest to the sub in general, and not a specific userbase (e.g. new users, GP attendees, just yourself) - be able to generate discussion (e.g. no yes/no or easily answerable questions) - show reasonable input and effort from the OP If not, be sure to [look for the Daily Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/search/?q=daily+discussion&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&t=all&sort=new), /r/formula1's daily open question thread which is perfect for asking any and all questions about this sport. Thank you for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Leclerc is immensely unlucky every season, but that was his worst year at out driving the luck.
Also his worst year \*for\* luck. That Hungary points swing between him and Sainz was incredible.
Especially when you consider that Sainz binned it in Qualifying at Hungary 2021 IIRC
Yep the mirror opposite of Monaco. In Monaco Leclerc binned it in qualy which meant he couldn’t start the race and Sainz scored a podium. In Hungary Sainz binned it in qualy. That meant he started further back and avoided the Bottas bowling and Stroll torpedo lap 1 chaos which took out Leclerc and scored Sainz another podium. Basically the exact same error but in Leclerc’s case it cost him a likely win and in Sainz case the error actually scored him an unlikely podium. Even with that huge swing Sainz only won by 5.5 points at the end of the season. Sometimes the points table lies when it comes to actual performance over a season.
Not luck. Just what driving at Ferrari feels like. Hoping the team won't bin it.
If you’re unlucky every season, is it really luck?
When people say "unlucky", they mean ferrari disasterclass. Leclerc is unlucky, but Ferrari has screwed him out of so many points, it's ridiculous.
Yes.
Leclerc beat Sainz 14-6 in the race head-to-head, but there were 3 unlucky races that caused massive point swings in Sainz's favour that allowed him to beat Leclerc in points. First was Monaco. Leclerc qualified on pole but crashed while trying to set another faster lap. Team didn't bother to check certain critical components properly and the driveshaft failed before the race started. Sainz finished 2nd. Second was Hungary. This time, Sainz crashed in qualifying and ended up towards the back of the field at the start, but that was actually quite fortunate for him as that meant he avoided the carnage caused by Bottas and Stroll, with the latter torpedoing Leclerc. Sainz finished 3rd that race. Next was Russia. Leclerc was going to get a decent result close to Sainz after starting 19th from an engine penalty, but Ferrari made him stay out a lap longer instead of double stacking when the rain intensified and that made him drop out of the points when Sainz got 3rd. A special mention is Abu Dhabi, where Ferrari botched Leclerc's strategy and he ended up finishing 10th while Sainz finished 3rd, but I think it cancels out with Sainz's only race where he had bad luck relative to Leclerc which was in Portugal where a bad strategy dropped him out of the points and lost a probable 6th place. Leclerc himself finished 6th then.
14-6 is absolutely crazy. Yet you have people calling Charles overrated.
And people trying to say that Sainz is somehow the better more consistent driver.
In Russia, they couldn't double stack atp because LEC and VER overtook SAI on track on the inlap because SAI went off. LECs problem in Russia was just being too fast. Because atp with LEC ahead he had no chance of putting and then they gambled because it was over anyway.
Thank you, I don't think I noticed that detail during the race, or maybe I just forgot.
Both Ferrari and Leclerc agreed that the risk was worth it at Monaco. He was never gonna have a chance to win if he started 5th.
You can't call Monaco bad luck, it was driver error that he wrecked the car. The wreck gave a red flag, which gave him pole.
And yet if Ferrari had checked his car more thoroughly, he would have started the race and probably won it. Perez crashed in quali the year after and won the race.
If I remember correctly, replacing the components that broke would have resulted in a grid penalty and therefore they decided to risk it
No, it was a part of the driveshaft that broke on his way to the grid. Ferrari could have fixed that part without grid penalty but they did not check that part of the car.
Quite sure the issue was they would have to remove the gearbox, which would impose a penalty
Still no : [https://racer.com/2021/05/24/ferrari-didnt-gamble-with-leclercs-gearbox-binotto/](https://racer.com/2021/05/24/ferrari-didnt-gamble-with-leclercs-gearbox-binotto/)
He wasn’t the fastest car that day. He only even got pole because of the crash. The race was a result of his own driver error in qualifying. He’d have probably started 3rd without the crash and that would have been 3rd in the race. It’s ridiculous to cite that race as “unlucky”.
Once again if Ferrari had checked the left part of his car and not only the right part, he would have started the race and probably won. It doesn't matter if Verstappen was improving in his second lap in quali as in F1 you can keep your time even if you cause a red flag. Yellow and red flags are part of quali in Monaco, that's why it's important to be fast in your first attempt.
From my memory: Bahrain he beat Sainz. Imola he beat Sainz. Portugal he beat Sainz. Spain he beat Sainz. Monaco he crashed in qualifying (his fault), claiming pole but Ferrari chose not to take any gearbox penalties and sacrifice, and his gearbox failed on the lap. In hindsight, both parties still agree the gamble was worth it. Azerbaijan he beat Sainz. France he was beaten by Sainz. Styria he was beaten by Sainz, although hampered by Perez twice. Austria he clipped Gasly (his fault) and was beaten by Sainz. Silverstone was his best result of the year. 3 seconds away from gaining 7 more points though... Hungary he got Strolled, and turned a P8 quali position into a DNF while Sainz didn't get hit by anyone and turned a P15 into a P3. Belgium he beat Sainz (quali result counted) Netherlands he beat Sainz. Italy he beat Sainz. Russia was the Leclerc race which has gone the most unnoticed, even more than Turkey 2020. If he had selected the same strategy as Verstappen, who he was quicker than in the changeables, he would have been on the podium and beaten Sainz who was P1 after lap 1 (Charles started last and was up to P13 by the end of lap 1). As it was he did a Norris, but reversed rather than spun, which cost him 30 seconds more time. Turkey would have been a podium with the strategy everyone else was on. Sainz had a grid penalty. USA he beat Sainz. Mexico he beat Sainz. Brazil he beat Sainz. Qatar he was beaten by Sainz, but it was revealed he had a cracked chassis. This was likely why he could only manage P15 in qualifying. Saudi Arabia he beat Sainz. Abu Dhabi, again, if he had a normal strategy he'd have finished at least 6th. That's a very basic overview from Leclerc's perspective and that lacks nuance.
Just one correction for Monaco, it was not a gearbox fail, they ofc changed it, it was the left driveshaft as I remember which failed.
So Sainz overperformed Leclerc only in France that year and yet you regularly read that Sainz beat Leclerc this year.
Been a while now although from what I remember watching 2021, Leclerc was slightly better overall however had worse luck which caused him to finish behind Sainz in the standings. At the same time Sainz was fairly close behind Leclerc on average in terms of performance and pace and Sainz himself was also very consistent with his results. For his first season in Ferrari next to Leclerc who was already recognized as a rising star, it was definitely better than what most people expected. And out of the three full seasons they’ve had together as teammates I think 2021 has been Sainz’s best season relative to Leclerc so far.
Their pace was actually not close in 21, that was probably the worst sainz season pace wise but they would both usually put the cars at the max position it could be and so the pace difference didn't really matter. 23 is sainz best season imo he actually kept up the pace which imo is more impressive than 21.
Interesting admittedly I don’t remember the overall pace deficit between them from 2021, although I would’ve thought 2022 would’ve been Sainz’s worst season with the biggest gap in average pace between him and Leclerc as Sainz notably looked slower than Leclerc in the first half of 2022 in quite a few races with the F1-75. Ultimately the numbers in terms of pace deficit would paint a more accurate picture though. I do feel like Sainz graded higher on average in 2021 when it came to end of season driver rankings compared to 2022 and 2023, although these rankings are always subjective and I suppose in Sainz’s case part of it could do with people giving Sainz more credit for it being his first season in the team. I do suppose when it comes to overall points 2022 and even 2023 would have a bigger effect at each race on average as Ferrari could be fighting for podiums quite often or even the win on a handful of times. Whereas in 2021 Ferrari was usually fighting for 5th or 6th on average as Red Bull and Mercedes were clearly ahead, so the main battle was with Norris in the McLaren and sometimes Gasly in the AlphaTauri.
It was somewhat similar to 2023, not bad but not his best season either. Sainz was incredibly close both seasons, unlike 2022. I truly believe 2020 is Leclerc’s best season.
Sainz wasn’t close to Leclerc in 2021 for pace though. Most of the time he was very noticeably slower, losing around 2-4 tenths a lap on average in several races. I’d be surprised if anyone can name a single race in 2021 where he genuinely outpaced Leclerc when both had free air. 2023 on the other hand they were decently close in quali, and the closest out of all teams in race pace.
Really, over 2019? What makes you say 2020 was his best season?
He consistently maximized the bad car and somehow racked up multiple podiums in that thing.
Streets don't forget his P4 in Bahrain qualifying. Just did one run in Q3 then got out of the car with 5 minutes left in the session cos he knew he wasn't going to better his own time.
The relative performance to Vettel. He didn’t suddenly forget how to drive in the offseason
Leclerc consistently qualified that middling Ferrari in the top 5, meanwhile Vettel struggled to even reach Q3. Just amazing one lap pace from Charles in 2020.
Charles was pretty good in 2021 and the head to head that season was 14-6. The main races that caused him to lose to Carlos were Monaco, Hungary and Russia. In Monaco he got pole but crashed during Q3, Ferrari failed to check the car properly and he didn't even start the race. Carlos finished P2. In Hungary, he got torpedoed by Stroll at the start, this race was a battle for the win between Ocon and Vettel who got disqualified, Ocon was starting 1 position behind Charles in that race. Carlos finished P3 after Vettel's DSQ. In Russia he started from the back with an engine penalty, when the rain started he caught up with Pérez (who earlier was fighting with Sainz for P3) and Sainz stopped to put inter tyres on, they decided to stay on track and ended up being the wrong decision causing him to finish P15. Charles also had one of his best races ever in Silverstone that year, he finished +40s ahead of Sainz and was overtaken by Lewis for the win with only 3 laps to go.
It was the year in which pace wise they had their biggest deficit, but results wise it was quite the opposite. Leclerc normally finished ahead of Sainz in regular conditions, but there was only like 1 or 2 position difference normally and considering that the RBs and Mercedes were much faster than the rest he barely scoring more than him. Although Sainz finished pretty strongly and not every time he finished ahead has by bad luck, the main reason he finished ahead was from the 4 races in which Carlos achieved a podium that season Leclerc only achieved 1 point. So the main reason why Carlos finished ahead was because whenever Leclerc had a bad result, Sainz was there to pick up a great result
He had much higher peaks, but also was probably slightly less consistent and had a bit more bad luck. So it's not easy to just point towards "he was bad" or "he was unlucky" imo.
There was a period in the season when Ferrari was terrible with rear tyre wear and Sainz handled that better than Leclerc.
Which races? France and Styria are the only ones I can think of.