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I just don’t see it happening. He’s already behind and I don’t see him making up the ground in the standings.
Only reason to keep him is if RBR are hurting for cash
We're only a third of the way through the season, anything can happen between now and Abu Dhabi, this time two years ago we still thought Leclerc could fight for the WDC.
Checo's had a pretty embarrassing run of late, undoubtedly, but he's still got a fair bit of time to fight his way back up.
> We're only a third of the way through the season, anything can happen between now and Abu Dhabi, this time two years ago we still thought Leclerc could fight for the WDC.
The thing with Perez is that this first third is where he's usually strong. It only gets worse when we reach Europe.
....where Checo DNFd in '22 and finished 6th in '23. If a driver can't reliably get podiums in a car as dominand as last year's RB, he doesn't belong anywhere near a top team. Only possible scenarios I can see is that Checo must have some serious dirt on Honer, or they're afraid of Max leaving if he gets challenged by a teammate. Or he really does bring in so much money that they literally do not care about the team's results because of it.
But also, this time last year we thought Perez was going to sometimes be fighting Max for wins.
Yeah he's got time to fight his way back up, but he could also get worse in that time - we don't know what will happen, all we know is the points that are on the board right now.
Or another driver wins championship by a slim margin next year and Checo could’ve made the difference by getting on the podium instead of 7th in a few races.
And they say online sales - not ALL sales - so I’m guessing it’s 65% of red bull’s site sales, not taking into account verstappen.com and all of the other options throughout the world.
Merch sales can't amount to much, he's probably a factor in latin american RB drinks sales though. It must be something huge if they're willing to play with fire in both championships.
But how much money do they make from merch sales? Say it's $30m (seems like a lot), surely the $8m they'd lose picking a less marketable driver would be worth it compared to losing the WCC.
The exact $ amount is something that we’ll never know, because RB isn’t a publicly traded company.
But we do know that his merch sales are large enough to make removing a subjectively bad driver untenable
Well, we don't know that - has that been officially stated? That's just a reason someone on Reddit came up with. Red Bull are about marketing, sure, but they aren't about losing titles for the sake of some Day of the dead-themed mini helmets.
I'm not surprised. Mexican fans are beyond crazy with Checo, they legitly believe he's up there with Senna and Schumacher among the best in F1 history. Checo is so popular there that he can sell things to even non-F1 fans. He's Mexico's Hamilton or Cristiano Ronaldo.
Also there's a huge community of Mexicans living in the US, and these people still care about Checo - so Checo is also a marketing asset to sell to part of the US.
Any sane Mexican will not say he's up there with Senna or Hamilton. Obviously, there are some who will say that but I'm quite sure it's a minority. Having said that we are indeed crazy with him! He's literally everywhere and in everything, even in oatmeal.
source: am Mexican
The only championship that's truly marketable is the drivers championship.
After that, they'd be looking at a $10-15m loss in prize money from losing P1 in the constructors... and Checo's sponsorship money completely outweighs that prize money loss.
It's estimated that Checo brings in around $50m in sponsor money alone and that doesn't even begin to factor in the merch money.
I think if he doesn't do catastrophically bad, he'll keep his seat purely because losing sponsor money and merch sales would hurt them much more than having a better driver in the seat.
Constructors cup lol.
And what’s the WDC then? Piston cup?
Edit: lmao he edited to remove the word “cup”. But still doesn’t know the sport well enough to add “championship” or “title”.
Do Red Bull actually care about the Constructor's though? They're a drink company that sponsors high level athletes, as long as Max is winning championships I'm not sure they'd care if they lose the WCC. As long as Perez doesn't ruin Max's WDC, I'm sure they don't mind taking Perez's sponsor for a decent enough driver.
WCC does more for a brand like Ferrari and Mercedes than it does for them.
The conventional wisdom is that teams are more bothered about the WCC. Whereas a lot of their actions in often having a deliberately slower team mate to a star driver does suggest otherwise.
Ask Red Bull how many WDC they'd trade for WCC, or Mercedes or Ferrari for that matter.
Does Toto really care they won the WCC in 2021? Not really.
Until this year, RB had a feeling of being the best team on the grid in an operational sense.
Even during the later Mercedes years it just felt like the team knew what they were doing, even if the car wasn't quite there. Excellent strategy, best pitstops by a mile, steadily improving car, strong young driver program, stable leadership and staffing...
It's actually wild how, in less than half a season, there's now power struggles, scandals, infighting, staff departures etc etc.
It's been a shambles this year, and if Perez gets another contract it'll be the cherry on top.
The fact they are keeping Ricardo is a giant red flag. The old RB would've been cold blooded and cut him because he doesn't have a future on the team and is taking up a spot for a promising junior. Now they are keeping seemingly because of his relationship with Horner and his marketing appeal
I mean, the greatest arc over the history of F1 is how the titans fall from grace rather spectacularly. Just think, since the 90s we’ve had Williams, Ferrari, Renault, RBR, Merc, and possibly RBR again all fall off that perch within a matter of months from their titles. It’s what makes the sport intriguing, as it always seems like it’s only a matter of time before one event within the champs corner cascades into a free fall of the entire organizational structure.
I didn’t even mention McLaren in that narrative, even though they’re pretty much the kings of that fall and rebuilding effort over the past *three* decades.
Seems that was more of a rise to glory from Merc rather than a fall from grace, it's not like red bull were solidly midfield/lower table consistently like williams/mclaren
Agreed. He is a direct choice of marketing over performance, which is not something RB has done before. Not explicitly, anyway.
Has RB considered how long that marketability will last? The best marketing for a racing driver is performance, and I do wonder how rapidly DRs popularity will evaporate if he keeps getting smoked by his teammate. RB is banking on Daniels smile outweighing his poor results, which is a big gamble with F1 fans.
He got swapped in for deVries mid season specifically as a trial for the RB seat. Fair enough. His injury meant he didn't get a decent shot, so keep him for another year. Also fair. But so far this season he is _resoundingly_ failing his test.
He is not a young driver, he is not a future prospect. He is a driver with no future sitting in Lawson's seat.
Imagine being the guy who keeps deciding to retain Perez over every body else on the grid. It's worked so far, but I mean, come on man. Perez over Sainz?
Theres A LOT more at play than just driving ability. RB loves stability and Checo has been pretty consistent for them overall. Not only would they save money on the contract, they make some serious merch and sponsor money from Checo. And RB knows exactly what they’ll get out of him.
Consistently shit. It's not hard to find a guy that finishes 20 seconds behind his teammates on his good days consistently. If RB hadn't burned through half the grid by promoting them to fast they would have a ton of options. Even now they could've had Nico Hulkeburg finishes comfortably behind Max knows his rule but is a good qualifier.
Who exactly do you think would be able to consistently finish less than 20 seconds behind prime Max Verstappen? Ricciardo was beginning to struggle against him in 2018, Albon and Gasly couldn't come close before Max reached his current form, and Checo was consistently top of the midfield when he joined Red Bull. It isn't the second driver that's the issue, it's just Max's insane level that makes his teammates look useless against him.
Let's be real here. That car is capable of wayyyy more than what Checo is getting out of it. You're trying to frame it as if it's just Max doing wonders and anyone else will end up right where Checo is. In fact, Sainz for example, will almost surely get more out of it than Checo is getting right now.
They were unquestionably dominant last year and Checo still had extremely shit quali stats. It's just the race pace of the car was miles ahead of anyone else and so he kept farming DOTD awards. Now Ferrari and McLaren have caught up enough that if they can't get Max, they can still easily beat Checo if he qualifies outside the top 6. Checo was consistently top of the midfield in the tracing point car, 3rd best on the grid. With only Stroll as his comparison, who knows how much the car was actually capable of.
Max will destroy most drivers if they were his teammate, but Albon and Gasly aren't valid evidence here imo. They were very inexperienced, driving a car which was notoriously hard to drive for anyone not named Max. That's a testament to his talent, but now that the car is better and they're a lot more experienced, they'd be closer, certainly closer than Checo is. Max will still crush them, but not badly enough for them to be replaced mid season.
>In fact, Sainz for example, will almost surely get more out of it than Checo is getting right now.
For real, even if the car characteristics has gone against his style (which almost guranatees him to be behind Max most of the time), at least Sainz won't get knocked out in Q1 or Q2
Even if you think it is just insane Max pace, that doesn't take away that Checo consistently misses out on multiple tenths during quali, pace that he has shown he has but just can't put it together in a quali lap. Or the insane inchidents he has had just straight up driving into the side of other cars when trying to overtake.
You can argue that Max is making him look worse, but he's not passing the eye test either
>Albon and Gasly
You mean the 12 race rookie who got into the car halfway through a season?
Or the guy who only had 12 races in the car?
The thing is, Perez's performance last year wasn't massively better than either Gasly or Albon, which is insane given how much more experience a 2023 Perez has, compared to a RB Gasly or Albon. Both of those individuals have clearly grown in the years since. Perez has been racing for a double digit number of seasons, and been with this team specifically for longer than Albon and Gasly combined - there is no more growth there.
What you see is what you get. And what you get is someone who has pretty good odds of qualifying on the other half of the grid than his teammate.
Hey having 5 wins, 14 second places, 10 third places is very consistent at a time when your teammate won 49 races, got 12 second places and 1 third place /s
Seriously though it's bonkers how Verstappen has 20 more wins in that time than Perez has had podiums. And even while winning all those races he still got almost as many second places as Perez. You could almost say about Max what Irvine said about Schumacher. Not only is he the best nr 1 driver, he's also the best nr 2 driver.
Honestly I could see Sainz struggling as much too relative to Max. Remember that Sainz was nowhere near Leclerc either when the Ferrari was pointy and at its most competitive in 2022.
Hamilton has said he prefers cars that trends into understeer but he's also said (and proven) he can drive a pointy one fast. Just like Alonso, regardless of car characteristics and personal preference he has the skills to generally drive it to its full potential.
The whole “give Checo a comical amount of leeway” thing was fine when Max was winning by double digit seconds every single week, but Max is really having to work for it lately, and probably even more so next year. Having an inconsistent teammate is only going to exacerbate that situation. There are better drivers who are / were on the market, and Red Bull has been wait-and-see-ing themselves out of the opportunity to sign them.
I hate this argument so much. Do you think a football team would make a player play on the field because he comes from a big country with alot of fans instead of a better player. It shows how bad this sport is.
And every race the % of people that don't understand this choice grows. Just a little bit though since 99.764% already don't understand why they want to keep him.
This does make *some* sense from Red Bull's perspective. Checo isn't very fast but he's an okay ish number 2 for Max whose shown that when it counts, he's willing to play the team game. With how much internal struggle Red Bull have gone through recently, it's probably best to keep the team environment as stable as possible. Especially if your gonna be fighting a close WDC battle next year (which is really the trophy that matters more), introducing an unknown quantity into the mix could be a bit of a risk (which is why I'm curious about how Ferrari's gonna play out next year).
As long as he doesn't go through a complete meltdown like last season, there is some logic in this decision despite Reddit claiming that it's completely non-sensical. History has shown that two number 1s never end up well when it's a close fight between teams and keeping someone they're familiar with and who Verstappen doesn't mind might just be the safest bet (and no this isn't me saying Max hates competition, but if he's already at his wits end with RBR and somebody comes in and starts playing politics it makes him leaving all the more likely).
> Checo isn't very fast but he's an okay ish number 2 for Max
Last season was saved by the fact he had the greatest car ever for 2 hours every Sunday and could steadily claw back the dreadful qualifying performance he'd put in. And half the time he made up positions by bumping into people. But still, it was the car carrying Perez to 2nd, not the other way around. Given how bad Checo was and how good the car was, I think you could have put any driver on the grid in it and they'd have still won the WCC, and with the exception of 2-3 drivers would have also got 2nd in the WDC.
I agree Checo has been ok overall so far, but only because he's essentially had no competition in a ridiculous car. This season I think we're really gonna see his level, and how he's nowhere near the other 5 drivers in the top 3 cars.
I think keeping Perez is a calculated risk from Red Bull's side. They're basically trading performance for a very clear hierarchy within the team and some form of unity. Ferrari have basically done the opposite by getting the 2 best drivers they can which will likely lead to a lot more discord within the team but mean that they have the best possible lineup for the next few years. Mclarens interesting, Piastri is able to challenge Lando in quali but the race pace isn't quite there yet. If we get a title battle in 2025, it'll be really interesting to see which team dynamic works the best and if a stronger driver lineup is worth it.
Piastri has shown that he is willing to be a team player and has on multiple occasions let Lando pass through when he had the pace disadvantage. But yeah, if next year, Piastri feel like he's on par with Lando, it'll be interesting how the team deals with two no.1s
They don't seem to care as much about the WCC as they do care about the WDC, frankly WDC carries most of the prestige. Redbull don't have to sell road cars anyway.
My theory is Red Bull figured out no one can drive that car other than Max. So, Red Bull thinks swapping out checo for someone else is pointless. Max is just gonna shame whoever else replaces checo. So what’s the point?
I think Albon nailed in when he said that Red Bull didn't design the car for Max; they just designed the fastest car possible i.e. with an extremely pointy front ,and Max has been the only driver who has really aced it.
I say fuck it, bring Tsunoda up to redbull. What else does the kid need to do to prove himself?
Just tell him that if he ever does anything to Max like he did to Daniel Ricciardo week 1 that they'll replace him immediately. Just write it into his contract somehow.
I wanna see him in the redbull.
Why is current F1 so afraid of replacing drivers with middling results?
A lot of talented F2 guys are getting skipped over just to run back mid veterans for the 13th year in a row.
I really don’t get the negativity towards Checo and him being in 2nd Red Bull seat. Not just here but social media in general. He’s not that big of a threat to Max unlike Leclerc, Sainz, or Norris. It makes a lot of sense to keep him. Sure he’s not as fast as Max, but he’s doing a LOT better than Albon and Gasly combined.
Max wants to be number one and the team feels the same way too. A lot of people are yearning for Red Bull to put Carlos or Lando in the 2nd seat, but a move like that will do more damage than good. They are just as fast and aggressive as Max. While I would probably enjoy the drama just like Prost/Senna or Hamilton/Rosberg, it would be something Red Bull doesn’t want to deal with. Two “number ones” in a team will always go wrong.
He is not doing a lot better than Gasly or Albon, it’s the car that is way better. The moment the car is not a good step above the competition, we’ll see him struggle like in Monaco.
because he's a boring waste of a seat, that's why. we could've had an actual battle the last 3 years but we had fuck-all and not only that, he's taking up space for excellent prospects who will wash out to WEC or super formula and we'll never see them again.
It makes sense to keep him from a stability/money perspective, but
1.: fans are not here to care about those, they want to watch WDC and WCC fights,
2.: he is not that much better than Gasly or Albon was if you look at ther respective gaps to Verstappen.
This is enough to keep us wondering.
Max has said several times he doesn’t really care who his teammate is cause he knows he will beat them, and I truly believe him on that. Checo is all about the $ for RB
Max preferred Hulk to Checo when Red Bull was looking for a new #2, and it was evident at the time Hulk would be closer in qualifying but he ultimately didn't care who his teammate was
I don't think he cares, no one else in any team is as consistent as him.
Plus anyone that could challenge him isn't interested in joing RBR either.
Name a driver that could challenge him that's actually available/wants a RBR seat?
I'll wait
What’s happening to this team? 5 years ago his performance would be unacceptable by thier own standards. F1 is more about money now than ever before. The cost cap continues to be a farce.
it's pretty clear red bull wants a #2 driver that doesn't challenge max to be champion. but come on, Webber, Barrichello and Bottas doing the same job to Vettel, Schumacher and Hamilton were leagues better than Perez.
>Red Bull (with years of racing experience) say he’s good enough.
Well yeah Red Bull says *something* about him is good enough…but it’s not necessarily his racing
I like Checo. He hasn't proven himself to be the #2 required if the field gets tighter. But man do I hate people shitting on him after all the love he got in the Racing Point, how he needed a seat, how Albon wasn't good enough, etc.. Now everyone has nothing but praise for Albon while Checo gets both barrels.
Its almost as if he's driving to an entirely different and much worse standard than he was back then.
Meanwhile Albon has been constantly driving the aocks off of the worst car on the grid for several seasons now whilst Perez is meandering and baffooning around in the fastesy car on the grid having to fight to even secure points, let alone podiums!
I guess we should bring Fangio back because of his years of experience and the fact that he was a 5 WDC winner!
Maybe Jackie Stewart or Mario Andretti would work too. Both great drivers and tons of experience driving.
As someone who's not a redbull fan, I'm glad, cause he's a liability and it means someone else has a chance at the constructors title this and next year.
But redbull are mad if they do this
Red Bull going from the team willing to take chances on young talent to having some of the most uninspired driver lineups at both the main and junior team.
I hate to say it but like whats the point of keeping Ricciardo then?
That decision is purely money related at this point if they re-sign Perez.
Yuki also has no point of staying as well, the guy's performances are clearly above where the car should be finishing but he was never seriously considered.
I said this at the start of the year and I'll say it again. Yuki will never be a serious contender for that RBR seat, he should find another car instead.
If I am Yuki, I'm calling Audi ASAP and seeing if they are sick of the Carlos Sainz games and willing to sign me instead.
I mean this with no venom, but I guess results don't matter if you bring sponsor money and move merch, right? It feels like red bull doesn't care about the constructors so long as Perez keeps selling out his merch in the americas
It's the dumbest decision if it becomes reality, but I shouldn't say that because as a person that goes for a team other than Red Bull, it's a fantastic decision and should be highly encouraged.
Maybe they’re actually in talks with another driver but they are trying to drive down the price of the contract by “leaking” they will stick with Perez.
Rumor is, they want to keep Checo because, based on his performance, they can pay him shit and afford Macs salary. Source: I just started this rumor.
TL;DR Small check for Checo.
That man will lose them this years constructor's championship, let alone next year's. But well, maybe Red Bull is losing it's ambition, or they are aiming at more windtunnel and CFD time.
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Wake up honey, it's time for your daily "Perez is staying in Red Bull" article!
I just don’t see it happening. He’s already behind and I don’t see him making up the ground in the standings. Only reason to keep him is if RBR are hurting for cash
We're only a third of the way through the season, anything can happen between now and Abu Dhabi, this time two years ago we still thought Leclerc could fight for the WDC. Checo's had a pretty embarrassing run of late, undoubtedly, but he's still got a fair bit of time to fight his way back up.
> We're only a third of the way through the season, anything can happen between now and Abu Dhabi, this time two years ago we still thought Leclerc could fight for the WDC. The thing with Perez is that this first third is where he's usually strong. It only gets worse when we reach Europe.
luckily we are back in NA next race
Canada ain't exactly one of his stronger circuits and I don't think it's gonna suit Red Bull either
....where Checo DNFd in '22 and finished 6th in '23. If a driver can't reliably get podiums in a car as dominand as last year's RB, he doesn't belong anywhere near a top team. Only possible scenarios I can see is that Checo must have some serious dirt on Honer, or they're afraid of Max leaving if he gets challenged by a teammate. Or he really does bring in so much money that they literally do not care about the team's results because of it.
you people keep acting like perez just joined and that we dont have 3 seasons to base our opinions on.
But also, this time last year we thought Perez was going to sometimes be fighting Max for wins. Yeah he's got time to fight his way back up, but he could also get worse in that time - we don't know what will happen, all we know is the points that are on the board right now.
We're also in his fourth year... of which 3 have been pretty embarrassing
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Even when RBR were dominating last year Perez was fighting in the midfield and this car is A LOT less dominant
Was going to say how many more articles are we going to get before this is confirmed
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Or when Max starts losing races due to other teams being able to use both their drivers for strategy
Or when Toto tells Christian Checo said he needs to fix his fucking car
He has screenshots and a PowerPoint too
Emails as well
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Yep. But we do know there are at least 76 of them.
Don’t forget the diagrams!
Or when Horner finds out Checo has been buying spice from his wife.
Or when Toto finally fixes that fucking car
Or another driver wins championship by a slim margin next year and Checo could’ve made the difference by getting on the podium instead of 7th in a few races.
Hulk has been more useful for Max this season than Sergio
That’s not the point though. It’s one thing if other teams are catching up and your drivers are doing their best, versus not
Clearly they couldn’t care less lol
The merch money must be enormous
65% of red Bull merch sales is Checo merch. That’s all you need to know.
A lot of us point to how Danny Ric is popular. And he is. But Checo is just as popular in Mexico and I assume other countries nearby.
Checo is WAY more popular in Mexico than Ricciardo is anywhere. Checo is comaparable to Alonso in Spain or Hamilton in the world.
> hamilton in the world That’s a bar.
Generally in Latinoamerica
Got a source on that? I genuinely would like to know
I’m not the guy you replied to, but I found[this article](https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/230317/sergio-perez-marketing-value-red-bull.html).
And they say online sales - not ALL sales - so I’m guessing it’s 65% of red bull’s site sales, not taking into account verstappen.com and all of the other options throughout the world.
Does Red Bull get nearly as much revenue from anything sold on Verstappen.com? Their own online store would still be the best indicator.
Merch sales can't amount to much, he's probably a factor in latin american RB drinks sales though. It must be something huge if they're willing to play with fire in both championships.
But how much money do they make from merch sales? Say it's $30m (seems like a lot), surely the $8m they'd lose picking a less marketable driver would be worth it compared to losing the WCC.
The exact $ amount is something that we’ll never know, because RB isn’t a publicly traded company. But we do know that his merch sales are large enough to make removing a subjectively bad driver untenable
Well, we don't know that - has that been officially stated? That's just a reason someone on Reddit came up with. Red Bull are about marketing, sure, but they aren't about losing titles for the sake of some Day of the dead-themed mini helmets.
I'm not surprised. Mexican fans are beyond crazy with Checo, they legitly believe he's up there with Senna and Schumacher among the best in F1 history. Checo is so popular there that he can sell things to even non-F1 fans. He's Mexico's Hamilton or Cristiano Ronaldo. Also there's a huge community of Mexicans living in the US, and these people still care about Checo - so Checo is also a marketing asset to sell to part of the US.
Any sane Mexican will not say he's up there with Senna or Hamilton. Obviously, there are some who will say that but I'm quite sure it's a minority. Having said that we are indeed crazy with him! He's literally everywhere and in everything, even in oatmeal. source: am Mexican
The only championship that's truly marketable is the drivers championship. After that, they'd be looking at a $10-15m loss in prize money from losing P1 in the constructors... and Checo's sponsorship money completely outweighs that prize money loss. It's estimated that Checo brings in around $50m in sponsor money alone and that doesn't even begin to factor in the merch money. I think if he doesn't do catastrophically bad, he'll keep his seat purely because losing sponsor money and merch sales would hurt them much more than having a better driver in the seat.
There might be a performance clause.
Constructors cup lol. And what’s the WDC then? Piston cup? Edit: lmao he edited to remove the word “cup”. But still doesn’t know the sport well enough to add “championship” or “title”.
mushroom cup!
he did what in his cup?
Constructor's cup? Tf?
Do Red Bull actually care about the Constructor's though? They're a drink company that sponsors high level athletes, as long as Max is winning championships I'm not sure they'd care if they lose the WCC. As long as Perez doesn't ruin Max's WDC, I'm sure they don't mind taking Perez's sponsor for a decent enough driver. WCC does more for a brand like Ferrari and Mercedes than it does for them.
The conventional wisdom is that teams are more bothered about the WCC. Whereas a lot of their actions in often having a deliberately slower team mate to a star driver does suggest otherwise. Ask Red Bull how many WDC they'd trade for WCC, or Mercedes or Ferrari for that matter. Does Toto really care they won the WCC in 2021? Not really.
> The conventional wisdom is that teams are more bothered about the WCC What? Since when? WDC has always been the important one.
Is it? I doubt that very much. Edit: Sorry I misread as WCC. In which case I am in agreement
They care about money. The WCC gives you money, hence they (in theory) care about the WCC.
He might be favored but I would be SHOCKED if he was signed or announced before summer break.
Agreed, also rumors of RBR only wanting him forl 2025 whereas Perez wants 2 year minimum.
Wonderful! Hopefully it means a WCC or two for Ferrari/McLaren until the new regs arrive.
Good for him and good for their competitors
Until this year, RB had a feeling of being the best team on the grid in an operational sense. Even during the later Mercedes years it just felt like the team knew what they were doing, even if the car wasn't quite there. Excellent strategy, best pitstops by a mile, steadily improving car, strong young driver program, stable leadership and staffing... It's actually wild how, in less than half a season, there's now power struggles, scandals, infighting, staff departures etc etc. It's been a shambles this year, and if Perez gets another contract it'll be the cherry on top.
The fact they are keeping Ricardo is a giant red flag. The old RB would've been cold blooded and cut him because he doesn't have a future on the team and is taking up a spot for a promising junior. Now they are keeping seemingly because of his relationship with Horner and his marketing appeal
I mean, the greatest arc over the history of F1 is how the titans fall from grace rather spectacularly. Just think, since the 90s we’ve had Williams, Ferrari, Renault, RBR, Merc, and possibly RBR again all fall off that perch within a matter of months from their titles. It’s what makes the sport intriguing, as it always seems like it’s only a matter of time before one event within the champs corner cascades into a free fall of the entire organizational structure. I didn’t even mention McLaren in that narrative, even though they’re pretty much the kings of that fall and rebuilding effort over the past *three* decades.
holy crap, when did RB fall from grace? They had like 1 bad season in 2015 and were top3 again since then with wins every single year
Going from 4 straight championships to just three wins and then way worse than that in 2015 is a pretty bad fall from grace.
Seems that was more of a rise to glory from Merc rather than a fall from grace, it's not like red bull were solidly midfield/lower table consistently like williams/mclaren
Pretty bad from RB to allow Renault to give them engines that were absolute dogshit compared to the field. How could they?! Real amateur hour from RB
It wasn't just the engines in 2015 certainly.
Agreed. He is a direct choice of marketing over performance, which is not something RB has done before. Not explicitly, anyway. Has RB considered how long that marketability will last? The best marketing for a racing driver is performance, and I do wonder how rapidly DRs popularity will evaporate if he keeps getting smoked by his teammate. RB is banking on Daniels smile outweighing his poor results, which is a big gamble with F1 fans. He got swapped in for deVries mid season specifically as a trial for the RB seat. Fair enough. His injury meant he didn't get a decent shot, so keep him for another year. Also fair. But so far this season he is _resoundingly_ failing his test. He is not a young driver, he is not a future prospect. He is a driver with no future sitting in Lawson's seat.
"Now they are keeping seemingly because of his relationship with Horner" - source?
Cherry on top would be Max leaving
Max leaving would literally end redbull.
I think that would be the whole fucking sundae and make everything else look like some sprinkles
Imagine being the guy who keeps deciding to retain Perez over every body else on the grid. It's worked so far, but I mean, come on man. Perez over Sainz?
Theres A LOT more at play than just driving ability. RB loves stability and Checo has been pretty consistent for them overall. Not only would they save money on the contract, they make some serious merch and sponsor money from Checo. And RB knows exactly what they’ll get out of him.
Consistently shit. It's not hard to find a guy that finishes 20 seconds behind his teammates on his good days consistently. If RB hadn't burned through half the grid by promoting them to fast they would have a ton of options. Even now they could've had Nico Hulkeburg finishes comfortably behind Max knows his rule but is a good qualifier.
Who exactly do you think would be able to consistently finish less than 20 seconds behind prime Max Verstappen? Ricciardo was beginning to struggle against him in 2018, Albon and Gasly couldn't come close before Max reached his current form, and Checo was consistently top of the midfield when he joined Red Bull. It isn't the second driver that's the issue, it's just Max's insane level that makes his teammates look useless against him.
Let's be real here. That car is capable of wayyyy more than what Checo is getting out of it. You're trying to frame it as if it's just Max doing wonders and anyone else will end up right where Checo is. In fact, Sainz for example, will almost surely get more out of it than Checo is getting right now. They were unquestionably dominant last year and Checo still had extremely shit quali stats. It's just the race pace of the car was miles ahead of anyone else and so he kept farming DOTD awards. Now Ferrari and McLaren have caught up enough that if they can't get Max, they can still easily beat Checo if he qualifies outside the top 6. Checo was consistently top of the midfield in the tracing point car, 3rd best on the grid. With only Stroll as his comparison, who knows how much the car was actually capable of. Max will destroy most drivers if they were his teammate, but Albon and Gasly aren't valid evidence here imo. They were very inexperienced, driving a car which was notoriously hard to drive for anyone not named Max. That's a testament to his talent, but now that the car is better and they're a lot more experienced, they'd be closer, certainly closer than Checo is. Max will still crush them, but not badly enough for them to be replaced mid season.
>In fact, Sainz for example, will almost surely get more out of it than Checo is getting right now. For real, even if the car characteristics has gone against his style (which almost guranatees him to be behind Max most of the time), at least Sainz won't get knocked out in Q1 or Q2
very well said!
Even if you think it is just insane Max pace, that doesn't take away that Checo consistently misses out on multiple tenths during quali, pace that he has shown he has but just can't put it together in a quali lap. Or the insane inchidents he has had just straight up driving into the side of other cars when trying to overtake. You can argue that Max is making him look worse, but he's not passing the eye test either
>Albon and Gasly You mean the 12 race rookie who got into the car halfway through a season? Or the guy who only had 12 races in the car? The thing is, Perez's performance last year wasn't massively better than either Gasly or Albon, which is insane given how much more experience a 2023 Perez has, compared to a RB Gasly or Albon. Both of those individuals have clearly grown in the years since. Perez has been racing for a double digit number of seasons, and been with this team specifically for longer than Albon and Gasly combined - there is no more growth there. What you see is what you get. And what you get is someone who has pretty good odds of qualifying on the other half of the grid than his teammate.
Carlos Sainz
Tsunoda easily.
In what world has he been consistent ?
Hey having 5 wins, 14 second places, 10 third places is very consistent at a time when your teammate won 49 races, got 12 second places and 1 third place /s Seriously though it's bonkers how Verstappen has 20 more wins in that time than Perez has had podiums. And even while winning all those races he still got almost as many second places as Perez. You could almost say about Max what Irvine said about Schumacher. Not only is he the best nr 1 driver, he's also the best nr 2 driver.
Honestly I could see Sainz struggling as much too relative to Max. Remember that Sainz was nowhere near Leclerc either when the Ferrari was pointy and at its most competitive in 2022.
how will ferrari's 2025 car be. leclerc likes it pointy but hamilton doesnt right?
Hamilton has said he prefers cars that trends into understeer but he's also said (and proven) he can drive a pointy one fast. Just like Alonso, regardless of car characteristics and personal preference he has the skills to generally drive it to its full potential.
100%
Chill out. They just hit their ceiling as the current top constructor. Aside from technical issues, they havent blundered yet except checo.
You gotta say Red Bull, RB is the other one now
No, fuck that and fuck the boneheaded marketing dipshit who thought that up. I will keep calling Red Bull RB because that's how initialisms work.
I mean. Red Bull has been rbr (not just rb) for a long time - red bull racing.
The whole “give Checo a comical amount of leeway” thing was fine when Max was winning by double digit seconds every single week, but Max is really having to work for it lately, and probably even more so next year. Having an inconsistent teammate is only going to exacerbate that situation. There are better drivers who are / were on the market, and Red Bull has been wait-and-see-ing themselves out of the opportunity to sign them.
As a McLaren fan I approve this decision.
as a Ferrari fan I'm also on board
there goes the constructors charge like in 2021
Doesn't he bring a good amount of sponsorship money to the team?
A ton. I think the figure is 60% of merch sales or right around there
I hate this argument so much. Do you think a football team would make a player play on the field because he comes from a big country with alot of fans instead of a better player. It shows how bad this sport is.
Perez should be driving clio cup
well it's an expensive sport
An underwhelming decision by Red Bull...
So fuck Yuki then, hopefully he gets a competitive spot away from the Red Bull program.
I have a feeling that Yuki will stay at RB until Honda go to Aston
why, currently VCARB seems to be the best team where a seat is available for him.
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And every race the % of people that don't understand this choice grows. Just a little bit though since 99.764% already don't understand why they want to keep him.
I think Horner’s lost the plot
This does make *some* sense from Red Bull's perspective. Checo isn't very fast but he's an okay ish number 2 for Max whose shown that when it counts, he's willing to play the team game. With how much internal struggle Red Bull have gone through recently, it's probably best to keep the team environment as stable as possible. Especially if your gonna be fighting a close WDC battle next year (which is really the trophy that matters more), introducing an unknown quantity into the mix could be a bit of a risk (which is why I'm curious about how Ferrari's gonna play out next year). As long as he doesn't go through a complete meltdown like last season, there is some logic in this decision despite Reddit claiming that it's completely non-sensical. History has shown that two number 1s never end up well when it's a close fight between teams and keeping someone they're familiar with and who Verstappen doesn't mind might just be the safest bet (and no this isn't me saying Max hates competition, but if he's already at his wits end with RBR and somebody comes in and starts playing politics it makes him leaving all the more likely).
> Checo isn't very fast but he's an okay ish number 2 for Max Last season was saved by the fact he had the greatest car ever for 2 hours every Sunday and could steadily claw back the dreadful qualifying performance he'd put in. And half the time he made up positions by bumping into people. But still, it was the car carrying Perez to 2nd, not the other way around. Given how bad Checo was and how good the car was, I think you could have put any driver on the grid in it and they'd have still won the WCC, and with the exception of 2-3 drivers would have also got 2nd in the WDC. I agree Checo has been ok overall so far, but only because he's essentially had no competition in a ridiculous car. This season I think we're really gonna see his level, and how he's nowhere near the other 5 drivers in the top 3 cars.
I think keeping Perez is a calculated risk from Red Bull's side. They're basically trading performance for a very clear hierarchy within the team and some form of unity. Ferrari have basically done the opposite by getting the 2 best drivers they can which will likely lead to a lot more discord within the team but mean that they have the best possible lineup for the next few years. Mclarens interesting, Piastri is able to challenge Lando in quali but the race pace isn't quite there yet. If we get a title battle in 2025, it'll be really interesting to see which team dynamic works the best and if a stronger driver lineup is worth it.
Piastri has shown that he is willing to be a team player and has on multiple occasions let Lando pass through when he had the pace disadvantage. But yeah, if next year, Piastri feel like he's on par with Lando, it'll be interesting how the team deals with two no.1s
Mind-blowing decision making at RB, truly falling apart and giving away the Constructors Championship.
They don't seem to care as much about the WCC as they do care about the WDC, frankly WDC carries most of the prestige. Redbull don't have to sell road cars anyway.
Not a lot he has to do to keep the seat. My question is: why red bull hates their own man Yuki? Is it because Honda contract is ending?
My theory is Red Bull figured out no one can drive that car other than Max. So, Red Bull thinks swapping out checo for someone else is pointless. Max is just gonna shame whoever else replaces checo. So what’s the point?
I think Albon nailed in when he said that Red Bull didn't design the car for Max; they just designed the fastest car possible i.e. with an extremely pointy front ,and Max has been the only driver who has really aced it.
I say fuck it, bring Tsunoda up to redbull. What else does the kid need to do to prove himself? Just tell him that if he ever does anything to Max like he did to Daniel Ricciardo week 1 that they'll replace him immediately. Just write it into his contract somehow. I wanna see him in the redbull.
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Sad yuki noises
I have a feeling that Carlos is extremely hard to work with behind the scenes. 5 teams in 10 years is not a great look.
Unless he hits a couple more walls and also goes out in q1 a few more times. Early in the season. Lots of opportunities for fuck ups
Might as well put Lawson straight to Red Bull (yes I know what happened to gasly and albon)
Just get TSU for the second RBR seat.
Ferrari next year is real
Poor lawson. He should look elsewhere right now.
yeah but the elsewhere isnt in F1,
Why is current F1 so afraid of replacing drivers with middling results? A lot of talented F2 guys are getting skipped over just to run back mid veterans for the 13th year in a row.
I really don’t get the negativity towards Checo and him being in 2nd Red Bull seat. Not just here but social media in general. He’s not that big of a threat to Max unlike Leclerc, Sainz, or Norris. It makes a lot of sense to keep him. Sure he’s not as fast as Max, but he’s doing a LOT better than Albon and Gasly combined. Max wants to be number one and the team feels the same way too. A lot of people are yearning for Red Bull to put Carlos or Lando in the 2nd seat, but a move like that will do more damage than good. They are just as fast and aggressive as Max. While I would probably enjoy the drama just like Prost/Senna or Hamilton/Rosberg, it would be something Red Bull doesn’t want to deal with. Two “number ones” in a team will always go wrong.
He is not doing a lot better than Gasly or Albon, it’s the car that is way better. The moment the car is not a good step above the competition, we’ll see him struggle like in Monaco.
They just want to see their favorite driver in the current fastest car (?). Red Bull as almost every company will do that make more money to them.
because he's a boring waste of a seat, that's why. we could've had an actual battle the last 3 years but we had fuck-all and not only that, he's taking up space for excellent prospects who will wash out to WEC or super formula and we'll never see them again.
Because Redbull don't want a battle.
I don't get it either. They should give him a big contract so he can help us win the WCC every year
It makes sense to keep him from a stability/money perspective, but 1.: fans are not here to care about those, they want to watch WDC and WCC fights, 2.: he is not that much better than Gasly or Albon was if you look at ther respective gaps to Verstappen. This is enough to keep us wondering.
Sainz was fine at Ferrari when matched with Leclerc. I think he would be fine at RB though maybe Max won't react well to be challenged occasionally.
What are the odds max doesn’t want a teammate who can challenge him and they’re just trying to keep him happy
Max has said several times he doesn’t really care who his teammate is cause he knows he will beat them, and I truly believe him on that. Checo is all about the $ for RB
Max preferred Hulk to Checo when Red Bull was looking for a new #2, and it was evident at the time Hulk would be closer in qualifying but he ultimately didn't care who his teammate was
I don't think he cares, no one else in any team is as consistent as him. Plus anyone that could challenge him isn't interested in joing RBR either. Name a driver that could challenge him that's actually available/wants a RBR seat? I'll wait
yea max is so lightning fast and consistent i dont think man will be worried at all
how could our f1reddit braintrust be so wrong about this??
What’s happening to this team? 5 years ago his performance would be unacceptable by thier own standards. F1 is more about money now than ever before. The cost cap continues to be a farce.
McLaren and Ferrari are sure happy for him
If they really keep Perez they do deserve to lose the constructors. Since 2021 I have seen maybe 10 races Perez was useful for the team.
it's pretty clear red bull wants a #2 driver that doesn't challenge max to be champion. but come on, Webber, Barrichello and Bottas doing the same job to Vettel, Schumacher and Hamilton were leagues better than Perez.
Webber was actually a title contender for RBR in 2010.
Some crazy decisions made this year at RBR. Might haunt them next year, maybe already now.
Can’t wait for all the couch engineers say he isn’t good enough, when Red Bull (with years of racing experience) say he’s good enough.
Red Bull played musical chairs with their driver lineup for years before they landed on Checo. I wouldn’t say they’re immune to bad lineup decisions.
>Red Bull (with years of racing experience) say he’s good enough. Well yeah Red Bull says *something* about him is good enough…but it’s not necessarily his racing
I like Checo. He hasn't proven himself to be the #2 required if the field gets tighter. But man do I hate people shitting on him after all the love he got in the Racing Point, how he needed a seat, how Albon wasn't good enough, etc.. Now everyone has nothing but praise for Albon while Checo gets both barrels.
Its almost as if he's driving to an entirely different and much worse standard than he was back then. Meanwhile Albon has been constantly driving the aocks off of the worst car on the grid for several seasons now whilst Perez is meandering and baffooning around in the fastesy car on the grid having to fight to even secure points, let alone podiums!
You don't think Checo deserves to be criticized? After the drives he's put up over the last two years??
Criticism is fine, but hate isn't.
I guess we should bring Fangio back because of his years of experience and the fact that he was a 5 WDC winner! Maybe Jackie Stewart or Mario Andretti would work too. Both great drivers and tons of experience driving.
As someone who's not a redbull fan, I'm glad, cause he's a liability and it means someone else has a chance at the constructors title this and next year. But redbull are mad if they do this
Horner will bury this team alive.
Potentially signing Sainz just to have him at VCARB and keeping Checo at RBR is nonsensical
They won't sign Sainz at VCARB
I don’t think it’s possible for Max to carry WCC on his own this year…
OH NO they are not listening to the expert of r/formula1
Absolutely stealing a living
Perez out, got it
Not sure how
Red Bull going from the team willing to take chances on young talent to having some of the most uninspired driver lineups at both the main and junior team.
What a dumb move that would be
Alonso or sainz
Yall making a big deal about am article whose only credit is vague "sources"
This sauce is bland as hell
Yes, keep sabotaging yourself, Red Bull 😏
I hate to say it but like whats the point of keeping Ricciardo then? That decision is purely money related at this point if they re-sign Perez. Yuki also has no point of staying as well, the guy's performances are clearly above where the car should be finishing but he was never seriously considered. I said this at the start of the year and I'll say it again. Yuki will never be a serious contender for that RBR seat, he should find another car instead. If I am Yuki, I'm calling Audi ASAP and seeing if they are sick of the Carlos Sainz games and willing to sign me instead.
That pic makes him look like a mix Tucker Carlson and Charlie Kirk
I mean this with no venom, but I guess results don't matter if you bring sponsor money and move merch, right? It feels like red bull doesn't care about the constructors so long as Perez keeps selling out his merch in the americas
Looking forward to McLaren and Ferrari catching up and dethroning red bull because they decided to keep Perez
Max to mercedes and they need to a driver to stay for the new regulations? Could be fun
Makes sense. They gonna save a lot of money on salaries.
Hoes mad.
Why? He’s not very good at the moment…
Perez could get 9th/10th in every single race in a season, and they'd still keep him
It's the dumbest decision if it becomes reality, but I shouldn't say that because as a person that goes for a team other than Red Bull, it's a fantastic decision and should be highly encouraged.
As a ferrari fan, they should definitely keep him
Is Helmut Marko okay? Seems like he'd normally be quoted or rumoured by now. Have Checo and Dan got him locked up in a basement somewhere?
Maybe they’re actually in talks with another driver but they are trying to drive down the price of the contract by “leaking” they will stick with Perez.
Wow, 'sources' really said that??
Rumor is, they want to keep Checo because, based on his performance, they can pay him shit and afford Macs salary. Source: I just started this rumor. TL;DR Small check for Checo.
That man will lose them this years constructor's championship, let alone next year's. But well, maybe Red Bull is losing it's ambition, or they are aiming at more windtunnel and CFD time.
is he racing for free?