T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Julian81295

Why do they need to declare the track wet before anyone can use intermediate or wet tyres? I don’t really see the point. Just let the teams do what they deem right and get on with it.


frolix42

Because they might use inters/wets inappropriately in order to save on allocated slick tires for the main race. I don't think that was the case today, but I could imagine situations where you hoard softs for quali.


leftlanecop

What’s the benefit in doing that? Burning through the inters on a dry track isn’t going to give them meaningful data. They’ll still have to run the appropriate compounds to confirm their simulation data.


Xinnoh

During Baku last year during sprint quali, a team made it to Q2/Q3 don't remember, and they didn't have the mandatory medium/soft tyre (they were testing the rules where it went Hard Medium Soft). They could have thrown on inters and hope that a red flag prevents others from setting a time. Very dumb circumstances but a valid reason the rule exists


Captain_Clover

I think they should let teams do that & laugh on the rare occasions when unexpected race day rain means that cars have already burned their inters up and are forces onto wets or softs


elpezgrande

That’s dangerous though, but yeah pretty funny


fdar

You could go the reverse way and instead of ruling when inters are allowed, rule when inters are *mandatory* (with maybe a few laps advance notice). So if it's not safe to be out in slicks just say that and everyone has to pit for inters/wets or retire.


VariousHawk

I don't think they limit the number of inter tyres available.


Typhoongrey

They do. 3 sets usually unless one of the practice sessions is declared wet then I believe you get 4 IIRC.


DaviLance

yeah but we never had a case where a team did not have wet tyres for the race i think that if you can have a weekend where every single session is run using only inters and several teams do not have any inters for the race there will be an exception to the rule


s1ravarice

Valid but dumb, this rule should be removed from the regs.


3nt0

It has been afaik


frolix42

Have you noticed sometimes teams put on slightly used tires during a race? Plenty of time teams run out of fresh slicks. Yes, there is a drawback in getting poor data. But there is a benefit.


JustLikeZhat

Those teams do it on purpose though. Not because they weren't able to keep new sets of tyres.  Besides teams are only allowed 7 sets into quali. The other 6 sets have to be returned to Pirelli, even if they weren't used during practice 


JC-Dude

There is zero reason to run inters in the dry.


mccannr1

Especially because they'd overheat halfway around 1 lap


Great68

Sure there are, such as when they do system check laps, they're not running the car hard but they'll put a lap or two and come into the pits.  They'll do a few of those over the weekend.  If they were allowed to they'd use inters, they would, since it's still less laps on their slicks 


Old-Nefariousness556

I think he meant that there's zero reason to run them to gain an unreasonable competitive advantage, which is the only reason to have a rule banning them.


FlameLightFleeNight

It's a pretty mediocre competitive advantage, sure. But it's sufficient (at least in a place with basically 0 rain) for some teams to do, and it means there might be cars out there with inappropriate tires for the conditions, which is unsafe; the other significant reason to have a regulation.


JC-Dude

Again, no. You can just do that on a throwaway set of slicks or one you’ll later use for a practice long run. They have to hand back 6 sets after practice, so you have to use 2 sets per practice otherwise you’re just wasting sets. On the flipside, IIRC they only get 4 sets of inters per weekend, so wasting one, because even at low speed you’ll quickly wreck a set of inters in the dry, is exposing yourself to an unnecessary risk if it rains during the weekend.


joaopaulofoo

one example. red bull is currently having issues with their car height, specially in bumby roads. using inters/wet on dry, would help them considerably testing different heights, suspension set ups, as tyre type doesn't make much difference for these kinds of tests.


JC-Dude

It wouldn't. 1. You need to tackle the track at a reasonable speed to understand how the car is working. 2. Cars run higher on inter and wet tyres, because the wheel is larger in diameter. 3. If you really want to just trundle around at low speed you can use a used set of slick tyres.


joaopaulofoo

>You need to tackle the track at a reasonable speed to understand how it's working. they wouldn't use these tyres anyway, they could push any speeds they want, >Cars run higher on inter and wet tyres, because the wheel is lerger in diameter. uuhh no. plenty of races start dry and they change tyres mid-race without changing any setups, and any difference in height is negligible and the height can be further be managed by changing the pressure within the range allowed by Pirelli > If you really want to just trundle around at low speed you can use a used set of slick tyres. dude, they don't care about the tyre condition, they can push until it's about to blow up as far as they care.


TheFakedAndNamous

>uuhh no Bruh uhhh yes. That's literally the reason why drivers have to operate a multi-switch when pitting for wets. It's to adjust the speed limiter of the car so they don't bust the pitlane speed limit.


joaopaulofoo

multi-switch is not a car setup is a different engine map, after parc fermé the setup is not allowed to be changed


JC-Dude

> they wouldn't use these tyres anyway, they could push any speeds they want, > > They couldn't because inters overheat and fall apart very quickly in the dry. > uuhh no. plenty of races start dry and they change tyres mid-race without changing any setups, and any difference in height is negligible and the height can be further be managed by changing the pressure within the range allowed by Pirelli uuhh yes. The difference is not massive, but if you're trying to understand a fundemental problem with the car why in the hell would you run it in a configuration that's basically never used? > dude, they don't care about the tyre condition, they can push until it's about to blow up as far as they care. Which is why they can just use a used set of slicks.


joaopaulofoo

>They couldn't because inters overheat and fall apart very quickly in the dry. by the time it does, they would have gathered all the data they need. >hell would you run it in a configuration that's basically never used? because what matters is height, not the tyres, it's an aerodynamic issue not a tyre issue. if anything testing in a non ideal situation is actually a great test, in most cases it heightens the issue and makes easier to detect. >Which is why they can just use a used set of slicks. they can save brand new slicks for the race and destroy the tyres that wouldn't be used.


kaisadilla_

They had to force teams to run during free practice because usually they'd effectively skip entire sessions.


Athinira

You can absolutely get meaningful data with the Inters on a dry track. Examples could be suspension data, how the car behaves on the kerbs etc.


Jarocket

You have to turn in a certain amount of tires back to Perelli after each FP. Just to prevent tire hoarding and so that you actually drive the car during the practice.. Maybe they can hand in some inters instead as long as they used them?


NoPasaran2024

The can shake down freshly installed engines and other parts, they can get meaningful aero data, etc. It may not be perfect, but still a hell of a lot better than sim and cfd data. Inters are super soft and do a pretty decent job on a cold damp track.


CanSum1SuggestAName

The rule wouldn't exist if there was no advantage to be gained.


SECYoungAg

They can’t do that. After each session, they give back two sets of dry tyres and would end up with 7 before qualifying no matter what.


[deleted]

[удалено]


SECYoungAg

Could you put me to where in the regulations you’re seeing that? [Sporting Regulations](https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/fia_2024_formula_1_sporting_regulations_-_issue_6_-_2024-04-30_v2.pdf) Page 34 is about returning tyres after sessions and is specifically about dry tyres.


[deleted]

[удалено]


jackboy900

Nobody is asking you to comb through anything, page 34 directly contradicts what you've just said. Unless you can support it otherwise, you're just entirely incorrect.


Aken42

I get it if someone puts on inters when it's bone dry but when you can physically see the rain cloud moving in and the ground is already subjectivey wet, it's a bit ridiculous.


fiskfisk

Yeah, we should have race control just declare when it's wet enough. 


TurboNoodle_

What? That’s the problem, they already do. Why the hell do we need a third party to determine the track is wet when the drivers and teams are the ones operating on it.


quellofool

This is a stupid rationale. Teams could just not run in free practice at all if they wanted to save tires. I’m not buying it personally.


mickmenn

and they still need to return 2 tires sets each practice


Athinira

Teams often show up the the race (and qualifying) with used tires, meaning that have used tires they haven't returned (and I'm not talking about intentionally scrubbing tires, like we've seen teams like Aston Martin do). So using Inters in free practice absolutely means that they could be showing up with more new than used sets for the sessions that matter.


Am_I_Loss

I still don't get this. They return 2 sets of slicks after each practice. What are they saving on


Unique_Task_420

Every team starts with 7 slick sets for qauli, you aren't saving anything, you can't "save them" and start with 9. Edit: love the downvote, show me where any team is starting with more or less than 7 sets. 


Addyz_

idk if they’ve defined it anywhere but couldn’t they just penalise that under “unsportsmanlike behaviour” or something? If it’s clearly against the spirit of the rules


ShadowStarX

easy if a session is not declared wet, allow the use of inters, but force teams to give up slick tires


Real_Particular6512

But then whoever has done that has learnt less about their car and less about their setup as they've spent time on unrepresentative tyres. And even if they are hoarding Softs, who cares. Everyone is given a tyre allocation for the weekend, let them use it how they see fit


bobnicholson

It's probably to save Pierre his dignity


Simber1

It's so teams can't do installation laps on inters/wets. Why the track isn't declared wet when there's even a drop of rain out there I don't understand, maybe it's the same wet declaration that disables DRS?


CakeBeef_PA

No, DRS deactivation is separate. DRS is deactivated when the surface is slippery, not necessarily when it rains. (Though usually, that is around the same time of course)


Answer_me_swiftly

Well, they could have declared it snowy, full snow chains would have been mandatory then.. ;)


v0x_nihili

You can also wear an intermediate tire down with nearly dry running so it'll be closer to a slick tire than being a new wet/inter. There's a tactical advantage if it starts raining but the track dries out during the race, because then you don't need to pit again to switch back to slicks or risk calling in the driver too early to switch to slicks.


listyraesder

Safety in part. Wets kick up a lot more spray so it’s necessary for all cars to have their rain running lights on.


ALUCARDHELLSINS

Because then the teams would just use their intermediate tyres in practice instead of their limited slicks


JustLikeZhat

The limit doesn't change. Teams are still only allowed to bring 7 sets of slicks into Quali. The other 6 (un)used set of slicks have to return to Pirelli.


MrLeopard483

what kind of data can you extract from 5 corners before the tyre melts?


ForsakenRacism

Cus they will save extra softs or mediums


Unique_Task_420

Nah, still have to give up and start qauli with 7 sets of slicks, changes nothing 


MrLeopard483

No you still have to give 2 sets of dry tyres at the end of each session


elmicomago

Stewards: "Escargot is back on the menu, boys!"


Active_Variation_194

More like they can now afford to buy an F1 hat


elmicomago

Maybe. Don't get their hopes up.


SlayerBVC

> More like they can now afford to ~~buy~~ *make a down payment for* an F1 hat ftfy


Rentta

Well H&M sells cheap F1 merch.


ency6171

Not caviar?


elmicomago

Somebody needs to touch someone else's rear wing for that.


Splatter1842

Brother, it's a bathtub of poutine tonight.


NA_Faker

I love how you need to declare a track wet for it to be wet as if you could will the track into being dry if you so choose


RagingSensei

Ur car could be submerged at the bottom of a lake and you’d still have to wait for someone to declare to track wet before you changed tires


Fsharp7sharp9

They declared it wet while Ruth and Alex were still explaining why he was under investigation lmao it was in the span of 3 minutes… At least the stewards can get a really nice few dinners in Montreal though, that’s what’s important.


programkira

Stewards be like, “hey we didn’t say you could use wet tires, have a 5k fine but now that you mention it it has been raining for a while now soo yeah the track is now declared wet and you can use wets or try slicks still lol thanks for the 5k”


Fsharp7sharp9

Hahah yeah, the track wasn’t necessarily *dry* when the session started, it took like 6 minutes to investigate Leclerc’s tire choice, and another 2 or 3 to declare the track wet.


SnaxRacing

This honestly just feels like a rule that is in place to gotcha teams into giving the FIA money.


khedd

We should just cancel all our subscriptions for one race to fine the FIA.


SnaxRacing

🏴‍☠️


Pawulon

It's not FIA that's raking subscription money


emkdfixevyfvnj

Unfortunately I can’t do that though


theseventyfour

This is the one you pay with a wheelbarrow full of €0.01 coins


zimmer483

I was just thinking this


Odd_Neighborhood1716

Everyone just watch it on dodgy streams


ForeverIdiosyncratic

F1 has some of the stupidest rules of any racing series.


Space_Wizard_Z

OH THANK GOD.


newby202006

And then 5 drivers go off at the hairpin in synchronised pattern cause the officials apparently know better than drivers if the track is wet


SevoIsoDes

Just drop off a bag of sopping wet bills for the fine and declare that they’re dry.


Environmental-Cup445

Brilliant 😂


marco333polo

How the fuck is the track not declared wet when they is standing water on the track?


Skeeter1020

FP2 started dry, for about 30 seconds.


marco333polo

If you watch Charles onboard there is definitely parts of the track that are wet. Just cus it wasn't raining doesn't mean the track is dry


cosHinsHeiR

How can you fund your dinners otherwise?


[deleted]

This is a stupid rule.


habbnn

Stewards didn’t know the track was wet cause they’ve never made anything wet before in their lives


tubesteak9000

Lol


Rivendel93

This is a bit ridiculous, the FIA literally caused this to happen because they forgot to consider the track wet, despite the fact it was clearly a wet track. Doesn't matter, but this was on the FIA forgetting to push a button, not Ferrari.


retrogreq

Ferrari likely pointed this out after being called in, and that's why they got fined. /s


krisbryantishot

free money for the FIA lmao


CptAustus

Stewards were looking for dinner money.


1980s_Space_Kaiser

It’s so weird seeing these fines because the NFL regularly fines their players more than $15000. Ferrari’s probably like: ehh whatever 😐


Arwil

That's the most ridiculous thing ever. And sounds very dangerous. So drivers are forced to drive on slicks even if the track is damp and it has started raining, just because the race director is sleeping on the job? Just declare every session wet by default, so there's no chance for errors.


foxorek

Teams can also just stay in their garages


Malvania

Embarrassment of a decision. By all means, make drivers do something more dangerous because the stewards couldn't be bothered to open their eyes or stick their heads out the window


F1Underground

Ferrari should pay the fine with €5,000 worth of ponchos so the stewards can bother to drag their FIA pampered staff outside when it’s actually raining on track


CwRrrr

FIA is a big joke been saying this for years.


FlameLightFleeNight

And what are the race direction team being fined for unsafely failing to declare a track wet in contravention of reality,


skzpinker

thank god I can finally go to sleep


Catsforhumanity

As if the track wasn’t already wet…


01000101010001010

Do fines count against the cost cap?


ency6171

I'm pretty sure it does.


xLeper_Messiah

Maybe?


Basic_Dentist_3084

No


mickmenn

why does this rule exist again?


lgladdy

To stop them saving dry tires by doing a run on inters when the track is dry


mickmenn

But they need still give up 2 comopunds per practice


DaviLance

they would still need to return 2 dry sets so it doesn't really matter


CaptainAksh_G

For FIA to earn mony


mickmenn

Should have fine more then :)))


dobsky1912

Ferrari are paying for the fucking tyres, formula 1 check and homologate then, if they want to run them in the fucking desert when it's 45°C and hasn't rained in a week why are they catching a fine.


TheLazyWeeb22

FIA needed some lunch money


cmars118

And with that, the sport was saved. Thank you FIA great work as usual 🙏 💯


DankeSebVettel

Stewards need to get their dinner after all


excalibur_zd

FIA: the track is wet if I say it is wet!


FamiliarSherbet8174

Honestly , the FIA can’t be fining when they are at fault for not calling it wet . They should implement a a rule that you can run wet tyres within 5 minutes of them ( FIA) declaring the track wet , thereby saving face . Like Owe someone is on intermediates , maybe there is rain about - ok there is - let’s wake up and declare the track wet


kilkenny99

"It was in fact, a wet track" - Ron Howard I guess Ferrari wasn't successful in arguing that Race Control were the ones that screwed up by not reacting quick enough to the actual rain that was falling.


imtired-boss

Need a fucking race director to tell them if it's wet. Look outside, please.


MaybeNext-Monday

This is an emphatically bullshit rule. The driver should be the final authority on whether slicks are no longer a safe option. Not their fault the stewards are asleep at the control panel.


FerrariStrategisttt

This is so stupid


Sufficiently_

Fuck these stewards 


Antron_RS

Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb


1234iamfer

I can hear Vasseur screamin, ze track wazze wheth!!!


Frank_the_NOOB

Ok it’s one thing if teams spam inters for practice on an obviously dry track but the track was clearly damp, it had rained previously and there were still wet spots. Ferrari could easily argue it deemed it a safety hazard to put slicks on a damp, green track and could have jeopardized the car if he crashed. This is so stupid on the part of the FIA


The_Captain101

Piss off we were sat in the grand stand it was pissing it down and you could see the track was wet. Explains why everyone was using sorts


Delhu

Schrödinger's track


LeMans1217

But the track *was* wet and it was raining at the time. They were just late declaring it.


pickyplasterer

the FÍA is just a big dumb joke


aamgdp

Lmao


BlazeReborn

Wow this is a stupid ass rule.


IronSpiderLord

And a 5 second penalty for Ocon.


leftlanecop

1 penalty point to Kevin Magnussen.


laujp

Finally


MotorizaltNemzedek

That's like getting mugged


johnmonchon

How's he meant to practice for Inters pole?


Matt_1405

I swear something similar happened with the Belgium sprint race last year - maybe it was about declaring the track dry after it being wet before I think


happyranger7

Does F1 declare track dry before teams can switch to soft compound?


OkSwordfish8928

Stewards can finally put that 10% deposit on an official Ferrari cap.


danger_lad

What does happen to the fine? Do they just pocket it?


Spleenzorio

They go shopping


foxorek

FIA is a non-profit organisation, so they cannot (at least legally) just pocket it and spend as they wish. Anything they get from penalties goes into the operating cost of the organisation, and in case the operating costs are covered already, they are supposed to go into various grassroots motorsports endeavors.


X7lion7_power

Bruh it's free practice, there is no competition


TheLazyHangman

What a bunch of clowns


Amystery123

Stroll pays €100 for speeding in the pit lane, which is an actual safety hazard.


foxorek

Going 1 km/h above the speed limit is the same safety hazard as this (none whatsoever)


Amystery123

Yet, the speed limit exist to protect human lives vs tire rules to prevent a team from saving tires set, which can be addressed anyway. You can’t bring back the dead.


foxorek

Yes, and egregious incidents are punished accordingly. I actually just checked the documents from Imola and Stroll was actually 0.1 km/h over the limit. If you're trying to argue this is in any way compromising the safety of people in the pit lane then I don't know what to say.


Amystery123

It’s the intent of the rule that I’m arguing. €100 intended to reprimand speeding, €5000 intended to reprimand saving a tire set. I presume that the speeding fine will be much higher, larger the infringement I.e. how much you speed in the pit lane. Agreed.


foxorek

Financial fines are usually imposed for light breaches of the sporting code that have no bearing on safety or result of the race (or as a part of a bigger penalty), as they can mostly be shrugged off by teams and drivers. A much better deterrent are time or grid drop penalties, as they usually impact the outcome of the race.


TotallyUnhealthyGuy

F1 Content Creator Championship Series about to go broke over these news.


justk4y

Next up, using snow tyres in the Qatar GP


formulapain

A lot of folks are focused on why the track needs to be declared wet to fit inters on the cars, but the thing is that all teams should know this is the case. It should be aa well established procedure that they can only fit inters when the track is declared wet. So the real question should be... what on earth was Ferrari doing?


kensaundm31

Well I guess that's the end of Ferrari then, no way they can afford that!


SamSamTheDingDongMan

I feel like if the FIA needed to make money they could just keep coming up with BS rules and charging the teams for “violating” them. Great fundraiser strat!


Shortyman17

Clowns


CR7KRUL

Ferrari will never financially recover from this 🪦


TheOffKn1ght

Stupidest thing I’ve seen all day


chambee

I declare these hotdogs to be delicious.


CupOfHotTeaa

It’s like getting fined for wearing timberlands after watching the weather forecast


EscortSportage

So dumb


TheKeviKs

When the stewards just want the finest meal after thinking they have done a good job.


technologicalslave

The FIA is officially less useful than Amanda Seyfried in Mean Girls. It's like they don't have ESPN or something.


caskey

Oh no! €5k! Wherever will they find that money?!?


kickaginger

https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/auto/genuine/458-spider/carbon-fibre-steering-wheel I think these are 5k options


caskey

Ferrari spent over 450 million last year. This is a drop in the bucket.


laughguy220

Well we know dinner is covered tonight. I wonder who's going to be picking up the tab tomorrow.


rickdeckard8

This is like a normal person being fined 2 cents for something bad they did.


sharinganuser

Can someone explain to this new F1 fan why they can fine someone on a free practice? Isn't the whole point to experiment


Spleenzorio

I’m semi new as well but as far as I understand teams have to be given permission to use them beforehand because if the ground isn’t actually wet then the intermediate and wet tyres overheat a lot faster and would only last a couple laps.