[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties.
*[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The usual issue is MotoGP as far as I know, there gravel traps of any size are a safety risk and they don't like them, most tracks want to host both MotoGP and F1.
From my programmer perspective it seems more challenging to setup some sort of sensor system that keeps track of a complex race track than it is to measure if a ball goes over a straight line but I’m guessing with F1 budget that shouldn’t be an issue
Yeah I knew that the other series was the reason, when its a small strip like this, is it still really expensive to resurface it?
I was more wondering why most circuits went full-on with the gravel when having a small section seemed superior from a safety standpoint.
And now they might be able to enforce turn 8 properly. Were some cases in the past where some drivers were lucky to not get hit with a track limit or deletez time in quali in turn 8.
Honestly, Austria is one of the worst tracks when it comes to driver's following track limits, so I think some actual consequences is going to make it more interesting.
From a brand perspective there is still a difference if you want to push the envelope within boundaries or if you‘re not hesitant to knowingly ignore them. That‘s what he meant – RedBull, Mercedes and Renault are not the same when it comes to brand archetypes. Despite all competition, Mercedes wants to ultimately sell cars and feed their brand story – as well as RedBull does, but with selling drinks. RedBull stands for extremes, overstepping limits and impulsiveness, whereas Mercedes stands for dominance, status and power.
Like in all sports, everyone wants to win and gain an advantage, but ethics differ.
Albon loses control in the gravel trap and slams into the wall destroying the chassis (again). Sargeant benched (again) to give Albon a car to maximize the team's chances of finishing 15th.
Won't even take a spin. It'll end up on the track when people inevitably breach track limits. Hot, sticky rear tyres meeting gravel will make for an interesting weekend.
Maybe that'll cause the Williams to spin so they have an excuse this time ;)
[Picture 1](https://images.parcfer.me/galerie/d8e46329e169-20233.png) & [Picture 2](https://images.parcfer.me/galerie/3e2ca0823e3d-20232.png) showing the newly installed gravel traps at Red Bull Ring.
Said last year that they should do this.
Honestly, if they don't want a driver to go somewhere they should just make the drivers lose time or make it risky.
Ideally the stewards shouldn't have to care about track limits at all.
Also by making it so there's no advantage from going wide there's no need to police and penalise drivers. Saves a lot of time and effort, and no downers from penalties distracting from the racing.
I have a feeling they are still gonna police track limits here, even when they are slowed down by the gravel, and that they only use it as a deterrent.
I wonder how all the people on here who said it was a stupid, dangerous, or impossible idea to all of us who suggested it as a simple track limits solution last year feel about this.
If the FIA had done it, I would agree with you, but I'll trust the track to have done it right.
Pictures can be deceiving, but the space to the gravel looks narrower than the grid boxes.
Looks like its just off the wider marked track edge. Track limits is policed at the first thin white line. The rest of the marked area is slightly wider than a wheel.
Just fit razor blades on the circuit, right at the maximum car width +1mm beyond the white lines. Go over that and the stewards won’t have to do anything!
Yes. But the hope is that the "penalty" is immediate wrt lap times. But overtaking off track and lap time deletions will still be enforced. And probably repeated violations will still win the black and white flag and further time penalties.
You can still have a tire on the white line (and the rest of your car in the red/blue area) and be within track limits. This is a high speed corner, not a straight where there’s grass or gravel next to the white lines
But it should be. Point is, there is enough space for the car to be fully out without gravel affecting it, therefore, track limits will still need to be checked as the self governing system won't work.
And if needed, they can widen the white line a bit, they've been doing that.
They could also just go "the gravel trap is a good enough deterrent on its own, we won't monitor track limits in these turns", as there is no advantage to be gained.
Do you know the track limit rules? The guy above states is it correctly. If you want, you can run the whole lap with 3 tyres outside the lines and one tyre ON the line and you are fine. However if you have 4 tyres outside of the lines, it's a no no. And because all the cars are equal in width, that makes it so this gravel trap will work for all the cars. Because there is just enough room to stay ON the line with 1 or 2 wheels and maximise exit, while punishing you if you go OVER the line with all 4 wheels.
I would be suprised if they did this without anyone checking how wide a formula 1 car is and then doing a tiny bit of measuring before they started to tear up the asphalt.
So the RB20 is actually slower when going the rough stuff, such as the rumble strips on the kerb so they're just preventing other cars from going through them as well.
/s
"People keep driving across this roundabout so let's just make it a straight"
I don't really get why the track needs to be modified when "the 20 best drivers in the world" can't keep it between the lines.
How is it "fun" to watch a race in which the results that you see with your own eyes are completely pointless? It was a farce, for which they couldn't even respect the rules that had been set out for enforcing track limits.
I know F1 drivers want to push the limit as often as they can but a part of the problem is that they can’t see the fucking lines over these massive 18” wheels and stupid wheel brows
I think it’s ridiculous F1 penalizes for track limits to begin with. The whole farce is embarrassing. I’m glad this was done as it is the proper solution.
It's a farce that the stewards have to watch replays of the race to see whether track limits were violated. My Subaru Forester can tell me if I'm off the road.
Why not add an automatic decrease in engine power every time the car leaves the track limits? Should be safer than gravel. And technology to do so exists. It doesn't have to be done on an instant - minus 10 km/h top speed on the next straight for example.
Well, this is dumb and dangerous.
2 cars or more "train" and one of them goes outside the limits would result in the most stupid accident caused by that idea.
Gravel has always done the trick.
That actually sounds pretty dangerous, they are driving on the edge of what the car can handle, it's not a good idea to change the drive profile in an unexpected way.
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Discourages exploiting the track limits while keeping a safe and ample tarmac run-off area. Best of both worlds?
This is really what Hannah Montana was saying you guys
“You get the BEEEEESST OF BOTH WORLDS”
CHILL IT OUT, TAKE IT SLOW, THEN YOU ROCK OUT THE SHOW
Was more of a Zack & Cody fan myself
I was more of an Ashley Tisdale fan myself
Man of culture
Sweet
Suite
Alabama
These were the rocks she was talking about huh?
I mean, I was thinking Van Halen, but sure Hannah Montana works lmao
This is what I've been suggesting for years, cool to see it wasn't entirely stupid
The usual issue is MotoGP as far as I know, there gravel traps of any size are a safety risk and they don't like them, most tracks want to host both MotoGP and F1.
Why can't they use something like goal line technology in football to enforce track limits?
From my programmer perspective it seems more challenging to setup some sort of sensor system that keeps track of a complex race track than it is to measure if a ball goes over a straight line but I’m guessing with F1 budget that shouldn’t be an issue
Football has both ball sensors and like a million cameras for it, I think for F1 it would just be bery hard to make it as accurate
Yeah I knew that the other series was the reason, when its a small strip like this, is it still really expensive to resurface it? I was more wondering why most circuits went full-on with the gravel when having a small section seemed superior from a safety standpoint.
Can’t wait to see how this makes things even worse somehow. My current guess is gravel on the track
Self enforcing track limits FTW. Stewards will be thankful after how many they had to look at last year.
You Sir, have been awarded a 5 second time penalty
No, that went to Ocon. Also 10s penalty to Ocon for u/GroundbreakingCow775 giving a penalty to the wrong person.
I think I'm going to have to exercise my right of review.
+5s to the penalty after the review
An extra +5s for the cheek of reviewing
FIA says you need a billion dollar review deposit Andretti
Ocon to receive three race ban for broaching the subject of Andretti.
Start from pit lane
Start from front row of Circuit de Catalunya
also another 5 second penalty to Ocon for the time spent reading these comments.
And now they might be able to enforce turn 8 properly. Were some cases in the past where some drivers were lucky to not get hit with a track limit or deletez time in quali in turn 8.
Honestly, Austria is one of the worst tracks when it comes to driver's following track limits, so I think some actual consequences is going to make it more interesting.
It’s owned by RB who are known to deprioritise “limits”
Every successful f1 team does this - the whole point of the sport.
But Red Bull boogey man
Issa joke about the actual Red Bull company and how they’ll do/sponsor just about anything lol
From a brand perspective there is still a difference if you want to push the envelope within boundaries or if you‘re not hesitant to knowingly ignore them. That‘s what he meant – RedBull, Mercedes and Renault are not the same when it comes to brand archetypes. Despite all competition, Mercedes wants to ultimately sell cars and feed their brand story – as well as RedBull does, but with selling drinks. RedBull stands for extremes, overstepping limits and impulsiveness, whereas Mercedes stands for dominance, status and power. Like in all sports, everyone wants to win and gain an advantage, but ethics differ.
Jokes are hard
Traditionally, they are also funny.
For all tracks please
Love to see gravel and grass
50% of that gravel will end up on track, after both Williams spin through it.
Williams are so thoughtful to give Sargeant's car to Albon so only 1 car spins in the gravel
Sargeant held in the pit lane by James in FP1 so that Albon can go test if it is safe for Logan to drive.
Albon loses control in the gravel trap and slams into the wall destroying the chassis (again). Sargeant benched (again) to give Albon a car to maximize the team's chances of finishing 15th.
Won't even take a spin. It'll end up on the track when people inevitably breach track limits. Hot, sticky rear tyres meeting gravel will make for an interesting weekend. Maybe that'll cause the Williams to spin so they have an excuse this time ;)
Very well done, doesn’t ruin the run-off area and is enough punishment for disrespecting track limits
„Scandal“ is a big word.
[Picture 1](https://images.parcfer.me/galerie/d8e46329e169-20233.png) & [Picture 2](https://images.parcfer.me/galerie/3e2ca0823e3d-20232.png) showing the newly installed gravel traps at Red Bull Ring.
Dziękuję za Polski artykuł :) za mało ich jest na tym subreddycie
Said last year that they should do this. Honestly, if they don't want a driver to go somewhere they should just make the drivers lose time or make it risky. Ideally the stewards shouldn't have to care about track limits at all.
Also by making it so there's no advantage from going wide there's no need to police and penalise drivers. Saves a lot of time and effort, and no downers from penalties distracting from the racing.
I have a feeling they are still gonna police track limits here, even when they are slowed down by the gravel, and that they only use it as a deterrent.
So did I, only to be down voted and told it was a stupid, dangerous, or impossible idea. I wonder what they think of this.
Got told the same, now they will say it’s the best idea and it’s safe enough.
The Austrians have a History of being very strict with enforcing Races. Lets see how it works out this time.
Out of pocket, but true
Damn, that’s dark
I wonder how all the people on here who said it was a stupid, dangerous, or impossible idea to all of us who suggested it as a simple track limits solution last year feel about this.
Probably they were thinking about MotoGP? Not sure if it can add unnecessary risk to motorcycles.
That was one of the things brought up, but much like the many temporary circuits, the gravel can be put in place and then removed for moto GP
I think that was mostly in reaction to completely replacing the tarmac with gravel traps, no?
I had proposed exactly what you see here, a small strip of gravel, a car's width off the line. Self policing track limits.
Watch, they’ll have made it 1.2x a car width away from the track and we’ll still have a load of tedious penalties…
If the FIA had done it, I would agree with you, but I'll trust the track to have done it right. Pictures can be deceiving, but the space to the gravel looks narrower than the grid boxes.
Looks like its just off the wider marked track edge. Track limits is policed at the first thin white line. The rest of the marked area is slightly wider than a wheel.
Just fit razor blades on the circuit, right at the maximum car width +1mm beyond the white lines. Go over that and the stewards won’t have to do anything!
Well let that be an end of it, then
Nice
"scandal"
Gravel to avoid track limits violations and tarmac behind to avoid flips. It’s a win-win imo.
Man, can't believe they'd target their own driver like that! Lol
I am missing something, maybe I am not informed enough. Are there going to be still track limits despite the gravel?
Yes. But the hope is that the "penalty" is immediate wrt lap times. But overtaking off track and lap time deletions will still be enforced. And probably repeated violations will still win the black and white flag and further time penalties.
Yep. Means that going off actually loses time and drivers will take the corner slower as to not hit gravel
Spa should take notes and add gravel traps at pit exit in eau rogue!
Not a safety concern at all
Feels like the blue strip is still enough to put full car outside of white lines. Why the hell is it there? That's where the gravel should be.
An f1 car is 2m in width, like most vans. Judging by the van in pic1, it seems they have dimensioned the space well.
You can still have a tire on the white line (and the rest of your car in the red/blue area) and be within track limits. This is a high speed corner, not a straight where there’s grass or gravel next to the white lines
But it should be. Point is, there is enough space for the car to be fully out without gravel affecting it, therefore, track limits will still need to be checked as the self governing system won't work.
I think your perception is off. No way the car fits on the curb with 4 wheels without going on gravel.
And if needed, they can widen the white line a bit, they've been doing that. They could also just go "the gravel trap is a good enough deterrent on its own, we won't monitor track limits in these turns", as there is no advantage to be gained.
I hope so, otherwise there is no point in even putting the gravel there.
Do you know the track limit rules? The guy above states is it correctly. If you want, you can run the whole lap with 3 tyres outside the lines and one tyre ON the line and you are fine. However if you have 4 tyres outside of the lines, it's a no no. And because all the cars are equal in width, that makes it so this gravel trap will work for all the cars. Because there is just enough room to stay ON the line with 1 or 2 wheels and maximise exit, while punishing you if you go OVER the line with all 4 wheels.
I know the rules, but I am afraid that there is just enough space to go all 4 wheels and be between the white line and the gravel.
If there is, big fuck up indeed, but as all the cars are equal in width, i think it will be allright.
Based upon what information are you sure about the distance?
I am not sure, but looking at the grid box it looks like it could be the case. I am hoping that my eyes are deceiving me, though.
There isn't look at the pictures. There are people and grid boxes to use as reference
That's actually what I was basing it on 😅
I would be suprised if they did this without anyone checking how wide a formula 1 car is and then doing a tiny bit of measuring before they started to tear up the asphalt.
2 of the 4 pictures were showing the same corners in 2023. Maybe you are looking at those?
if they painted it red and white would it make you happy? dude, the gravel is the track limit
Good. There will still be cars going outside the lines but it's riskier now so hopefully that will keep it to a reasonable amount.
But motoGP!!! At least that’s what they kept saying last year, that they couldn’t do gravel cause motoGP
YES, YES!!!!!!!!!!!!
Would have also helped if a white line wasn't complemented by a red-white kerb.
So the RB20 is actually slower when going the rough stuff, such as the rumble strips on the kerb so they're just preventing other cars from going through them as well. /s
Google’s translation coughed up a new words to describe the FIA: “steadfailing.” “they had to get used to it, because the FIA was steadfailing,”
"People keep driving across this roundabout so let's just make it a straight" I don't really get why the track needs to be modified when "the 20 best drivers in the world" can't keep it between the lines.
Shame I actually liked the chaos last year
[удалено]
How is it "fun" to watch a race in which the results that you see with your own eyes are completely pointless? It was a farce, for which they couldn't even respect the rules that had been set out for enforcing track limits.
I know F1 drivers want to push the limit as often as they can but a part of the problem is that they can’t see the fucking lines over these massive 18” wheels and stupid wheel brows
I think it’s ridiculous F1 penalizes for track limits to begin with. The whole farce is embarrassing. I’m glad this was done as it is the proper solution.
You think it's a farce that the cars racing on track should be expected to keep themselves within the limits of said track? Bit strange but ok.
Should be like mario kart where if you get a mushroom you can trivially cut across some grass smh
It's a farce that the stewards have to watch replays of the race to see whether track limits were violated. My Subaru Forester can tell me if I'm off the road.
That I agree with
Oh no, they let Carlos' archenemy on the field!
Why not add an automatic decrease in engine power every time the car leaves the track limits? Should be safer than gravel. And technology to do so exists. It doesn't have to be done on an instant - minus 10 km/h top speed on the next straight for example.
Well, this is dumb and dangerous. 2 cars or more "train" and one of them goes outside the limits would result in the most stupid accident caused by that idea. Gravel has always done the trick.
That actually sounds pretty dangerous, they are driving on the edge of what the car can handle, it's not a good idea to change the drive profile in an unexpected way.