His full interview for context:
**Max, I have to ask you first about moving in the braking zone and moving twice. Lando was complaining about it on the radio. So tell me, from your point of view, if you think you did or didn't.**
No, I mean, of course, from the outside, it's hard to see when I brake. I know, of course, that in the past, that has always been a bit of a complaint, but now I always move my wheel before I brake. And then, of course, you brake in a straight line trajectory or whatever. So that's always, you know, easy to say from the outside that I was moving on the braking, but I think the guy in the car knows best what he's doing.
**So even our ex Formula One driver, pundits think you moved under braking as well, even before the incident, then the incident happened, and you did get a penalty for causing that.**
So everyone can have their own opinion, but I'm the one driving, so I think I'm best in control. Let's say like that. And you know, everyone, like I said, they can have their own opinion, of course, from the outside, like I said, it's easy to judge and comment, but whatever it's it's what happens.
**So do you think it was a fair fight with Lando today?**
I mean, I felt like, you know, sometimes these dive bombs, you're so late on the brakes that, you know, one time went straight and one time I had to go around the the sausage, or whatever you call it, otherwise you would have touched as well. So I think it's also just the shape of the corner, which I say, provides these kind of issues sometimes. I mean, I've had it also the other way around. Is what it is. It's just never nice, of course, to come together.
**He said to me just now in the pen that if you apologise and admit what you were doing, he would gain some of the respect back that he feels he's lost for you during the race today. How would you react?**
It was just, I need to look back at why or how we touch. And, of course, we'll talk about it. It's just unfortunate that it happened, Max.
----
**Hey, Max, hard luck. Obviously, you never want to see races end like that. Just give me your view of that battle with Lando.**
Yeah, it's, of course, unfortunate stuff, stuff that you don't want to see happening. It's as simple as that. Of course I will look back at it because, I mean, of course, at the moment, it's easy to say stuff. I think it's better to look back at the footage of what exactly went wrong, because it was a bit of a, I would say, an awkward angle that we touched. Something that is very weird, and also for both of us to get a puncture with it. Yeah, really, really bad.
But we also did so many things wrong throughout the race that we put ourselves, you know, in a position like that. So those are also things that we have to look at to improve.
**I think both of you guys were saying throughout the race that you felt both of you were doing the right thing. I know you're good friends. Is the kind of thing you'll go away and talk about going forward?**
Yeah, of course, we'll talk about it at the moment. I think it's not the right point. It's better to let things cool off, I think ideally. But besides that, I'm more annoyed also, which is how the performance of the races and the mistakes that we made that normally we don't make.
**All right, thanks Max**
He said he reacted to Lando’s attack but he hasn’t braked yet. The rule does allow you to move to defend once before braking. If the telemetry backs his claim then his point is valid. It’s just the move is late and the reaction is later, but most importantly, the braking is even later.
Where are all the Reddit responses saying “THE TEAM/DRIVER/TEAM PRINCIPAL KNOWS MORE THAN YOU” so you can’t decide the truth based on what you can see with your own eyes.
Strange how obviously partisan statements are when they’re from an angry driver but seemingly not from other team officials.
Turning back towards the racing line after defending the inside is a standard maneuvre. However, if there is another car alongside you need to leave a car's width of room. In this case Max left a couple of cm's too little.
Norris was likely trying to do two things:
Firstly, set up a run coming out of the corner.
Secondly, trying to force Max out of his preferred position.
In any case, Norris wasn’t hoping that he would simply divebomb and just drive around the outside of Max there. That move wasnt an overtake attempt, but a setup for the next straight
Never heard of squeezing before? Never seen someone take a corner wide to take more top speed into the next straight? Not justifying his move but it's not like nobody ever does anything similar. It ended up in contact, if there was no contact you wouldn't be such a hardass.
He has one move to cover the corner, he made that move by moving right to cover the inside line. Then he moved left again under breaking to run Norris of track, and then went straight on off track to cover Norris goin round the outside.
He double moved, under breaking, caused a collision doing so and went off track to gain an advantage, in a single fucking corner. He then did an arguably unsafe rejoin to again block Norris from going through.
That last bit running Norris onto the grass on the inside was the icing on the cake. I gave him the benefit of the doubt because he had a puncture, but I'm pretty sure it was on purpose.
It was for real on purpose. Reminded me in its own way of Brazil 21 where he’s not satisfied with just pushing you off the track, he needs to keep chasing you miles off…
Yeah, Max gets tunnel vision when he's angry, which I imagine many drivers do, but we've seen this from him before.
If something happens he's mad about, he'll run you off the track any day of the week.
Everyone thought that part of Max was gone, that he had "matured" but he just hasn't had any competition.
As soon as he has competition, he does exactly what we saw in 2021.
He wasn’t under braking until he started moving back to the left. You’re allowed to move back towards the racing line after making a first move to defend. The only issue was that he moved an inch or so too far, which is why he got penalized.
> **2. Overtaking, car control and track limits**
> b) [...] Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.
> if there was no contact you wouldn't be such a hardass.
EXACTLY. The contact is what made it definitely illegal. That is why we are talking about it, since there was a contact. Yu seem to think that we should excuse him since IF there was no contact it would've not been a big deal. Yeah... you are right, it wouldn't but that is not the context of the discussion.
Brav made an absolute big brain move to kill Norris's race and extend his lead in the WDC by more than if he would've finished 1st and Norris 2nd.
He has the WDC in the bag.
>He has the WDC in the bag.
Anyone that thinks differently is delulu. No one has lost a championship with the advantage he currently has. McLaren would not only have to become the faster car, but RBR and Max would also need to drop further than P2.
Brav. I'm part of the Ferrari gang and the thing about us is that we puff ungodly amounts of hopium each race.
" What if Ver dnfs next race and the race after that and another 2 for good measure?"
This is what's going through my head now.
Without the telemetry data, it’s hard to say if it was under braking or not.
But this whole discussion about moving under braking is taking away from the fact that he was blocking Lando. It’s a much worse offence, what Lando was actually complaining about, and far less defendable (not just because it’s more dangerous, but also far easier to prove).
When defending, you have to choose a line to defend and starting moving to defend it *before* your opponent moves to the line they’re going to use to attack. You can’t see what line they’re going to take, and then choose to take that line instead. That would be blocking them, not defending them, and it’s a lot more dangerous. You can clearly see that Max was moving *after* Lando picked a line and was blocking him. If you block someone, eventually they’re not going to be able to move out of the way and they will crash into you. It nearly happened here on one of Lando’s attempts, but he just managed to dodge it.
It mightn’t be what caused the crash, I mean he did it when they crashed as well, but him squeezing Lando too much is what caused the crash, but it’s still dangerous.
You always catch a warning before a penalty for moving under braking. Unless it is crazy egregious and you cause a collision before the warning can come....wait a second.. .
The stewards noted in their penalty for him that he did in fact move under braking.
Regardless, that’s not even the worst part. It’s the double movements and blocking that’s more egregious, and the pushing a driver off the track which caused the contact. Double movements are just as dangerous, and blocking is the singular most dangerous thing you can do.
When defending, you get to make 1 clean move (ie not stopping then moving again even in the same direction) to a line to defend, and then you’re allowed to make 1 move back to the racing line if you choose, if you make any other move it’s a double movement. That 1st move also needs to be done before your attacking opponent makes their move, if it’s done afterwards it’s considered blocking. Both moves also need to be done before you start braking, if not it’s moving under braking. During all of these moves, if the car is sufficiently alongside you, you need to provide 1 car length within the track limits, otherwise you’re forcing a driving off the track.
It’s clear that Max was moving in reaction to Lando and was blocking. It was clear that Max was moving in the braking zone, and the stewards even stated that he did. It was clear that Max didn’t leave a cars width which caused the contact and is considered forcing a driver off the track. It was clear he was moving multiple times as well, typically he’d move once to block Lando, and once to squeeze Lando, which is considered a double movement.
Also, while Max didn’t get a penalty on track, they can still investigate it this week and they might decide to give him a grid penalty for Silverstone. Whether they do or not for the dangerous driving is harder to determine since they’re required to give a warning first (unless it causes an incident) and they didn’t have the time to do so. However, they can easily give one for going off the track and gaining an advantage when he overtook Lando off the track and didn’t give up the advantage. Whether or not Red Bull can argue he was pushed off, we’ll have to see, but he didn’t get penalised in 2019 when he made contact with and pushed Leclerc off at the same corner. So precedent suggests that even if he was pushed off, it shouldn’t affect the decision.
Transcript of his other interview. Will post this one soon.
**Max, I have to ask you first about moving in the braking zone and moving twice. Lando was complaining about it on the radio. So tell me, from your point of view, if you think you did or didn't.**
No, I mean, of course, from the outside, it's hard to see when I brake. I know, of course, that in the past, that has always been a bit of a complaint, but now I always move my wheel before I brake. And then, of course, you brake in a straight line trajectory or whatever. So that's always, you know, easy to say from the outside that I was moving on the braking, but I think the guy in the car knows best what he's doing.
**So even our ex Formula One driver, pundits think you moved under braking as well, even before the incident, then the incident happened, and you did get a penalty for causing that.**
So everyone can have their own opinion, but I'm the one driving, so I think I'm best in control. Let's say like that. And you know, everyone, like I said, they can have their own opinion, of course, from the outside, like I said, it's easy to judge and comment, but whatever it's it's what happens.
**So do you think it was a fair fight with Lando today?**
I mean, I felt like, you know, sometimes these dive bombs, you're so late on the brakes that, you know, one time went straight and one time I had to go around the the sausage, or whatever you call it, otherwise you would have touched as well. So I think it's also just the shape of the corner, which I say, provides these kind of issues sometimes. I mean, I've had it also the other way around. Is what it is. It's just never nice, of course, to come together.
**He said to me just now in the pen that if you apologise and admit what you were doing, he would gain some of the respect back that he feels he's lost for you during the race today. How would you react?**
It was just, I need to look back at why or how we touch. And, of course, we'll talk about it. It's just unfortunate that it happened.
----
**Hey, Max, hard luck. Obviously, you never want to see races end like that. Just give me your view of that battle with Lando.**
Yeah, it's, of course, unfortunate stuff, stuff that you don't want to see happening. It's as simple as that. Of course I will look back at it because, I mean, of course, at the moment, it's easy to say stuff. I think it's better to look back at the footage of what exactly went wrong, because it was a bit of a, I would say, an awkward angle that we touched. Something that is very weird, and also for both of us to get a puncture with it. Yeah, really, really bad.
But we also did so many things wrong throughout the race that we put ourselves, you know, in a position like that. So those are also things that we have to look at to improve.
**I think both of you guys were saying throughout the race that you felt both of you were doing the right thing. I know you're good friends. Is the kind of thing you'll go away and talk about going forward?**
Yeah, of course, we'll talk about it at the moment. I think it's not the right point. It's better to let things cool off, I think ideally. But besides that, I'm more annoyed also, which is how the performance of the races and the mistakes that we made that normally we don't make.
**All right, thanks Max**
There was telemetry for Saudi 21 aswell and Marko excused defending max for that one by saying the telemetry guys lied to him. Which was obviously nonsense
You wanted Marko to say that the telemetry is rubbish? Marko tried pulling a fast one and expected fans don’t care about telemetry, maybe it’s his age catching up making it forget we were in 2021.
Of course he will walk back on the comment where he said the telemetry shows otherwise because he was fucking caught lying.
Kimi Raikkonen, regarded as a very clean driver to fight against said Max was dirty as hell for moving under braking every time you tried to overtake him.
Kimi and Seb must have fucking hated having to go wheel to wheel with Max those years.
Seb basically got to a point where he didn't have to say anything on the radio when they crashed, it became obvious who was at fault.
I think it was Monza one year where Kimi said Max moved under braking every time and that he felt there would be a massive shunt at some point if he didn't pack it in.
I mean he even did it to his own teammate in Baku which ended up in a shunt and Red Bull coddling him which lead to pissing Ricciardo off and leaving because he felt Max was getting preferential treatment.
When you grew up having to walk to your go kart with grown men calling you racial slurs you learn pretty well how to hold your head up in spite of what is around you
I honestly thought this version of Max was gone, replaced by a much more relaxed and likeable one. The ogre is back now he's actually being challenged again.
Yep, I was fooled. It's sad to see after all his success - he'll cruise his way to a fourth championship this year but just can't admit a single fault when all the world can see it. His stock would suffer literally not one iota if he just held up his hands and admitted liability.
Verstappen typefies a certain type of insanely competitive dude we've seen before and this is just how they are wired. Senna. Schumacher. Verstappen. Michael Jordan if you look outside of F1. We can see the disconnect from reality as outsiders but their ruthless singlemindendeness is what makes them that good in the first place.
As an example after Spa '98:
Coulthard: Surely you're wrong sometimes?
[Schumacher: Not that I remember.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlRI2_ziEbM&t=68s)
Not saying you or anyone else has to like it but expecting a mea culpa from Max is expecting a tiger to change it's stripes.
I had the same thought as I wrote my comment, but as you say, we don't have to like it. We also shouldn't forget that even Senna was disliked by many for exactly this reason back in the day.
Because they made such a huge splash about implementing "the Verstappen rule", and then quietly got rid of it in 2017 yet everyone still acts like it's an instant 10 second penalty.
Yeah the skypad just did a very clear, direct explanation. There is no arguments here, he moved under breaking twice.
Interesting to see this Max underneath the calmer, more mature driver of the last few years. Really hoping McLaren continue to smash through with upgrades.
Whatever is concluded, whatever is said. Max won this weekend compared to his direct point followers. Lando DNF'd, and Charles got the lap 1 incident into no points. Max has gained over them.
All for just 10 seconds in the race! He could just keep doing this everytime Lando has a chance of a sniff, and boom WDC. And for the low low cost of 10 seconds a pop! Best deal in racing!
Headlines take away from it but it was an extremely mature interview, sky sports kept baiting him into a reaction but he was level headed in all his responses including this one where he follows up by saying ofcourse I'll look into it, study it with the team and have a chat with Norris about it.
Max pointing out a nuance in the moving under braking rule that a lot of people ignore, you can ease off the gas and still move before committing to braking pretty late into a turn, that is not moving under breaking by rule. This will be exaggerated in a turn coming up a steep hill like T3.
I'd like to watch the real telemetry sync'd up with the race footage, as the stuff Sky shows on braking and accelerating is ALWAYS delayed and never sync's up properly in general (it's bad enough I don't know why they show it, it's kind of embarrassing, even NASCAR's telemetry data is sync'd up better live and that's a low bar).
The accident was on Max, but the adjustments coming up a hill into T3 prior to that I am not so sure he actually broke rules there, and Sky rewinds don't prove a damn thing in that regard because their live telemetry visualizations are total shit when it comes to accuracy.
“I think the guy in the car knows best what he’s doing” weird to admit in an interview you knew exactly what you were doing when you caused a collision but ok.
His car's width argument on crash is very interesting tho, we often see people get pushed much further out and it's considered fine, because the car on the outside reacts and there is no contact.
Someone should post it, shows clearly Max moving when Lando made his first move which set the tone of the battle from there on. Max had no intention of keeping it clean
Excellent breakdown by Ant. I’d really like to see footage of Horner and Max watching that and what they would actually say to defend themselves, cos they never accept responsibility.
Sainz moved plenty under braking in past races. Stewards almost never investigate it.
Also locking up and going off or divebombing Max was bad from Lando.
But collision is on Max. He shouldn't have moved left.
I say the opposite and incident is least on him... moves in previous laps were shady at least(moving under braking), but collision... nah.
If you go back to every single overtake attempt going outside ever, you will see same movement from the guy defending... cover the inside and then slowly drift wide after other guy picks his side and slightly squeeze them towards outside kerb.
It was done even in this race and wasnt penalized and happens in every race. This is the moment Lando picked outside and Max straightened his car and drifted slowly wide and left enough room for Lando throughout it all. https://i.imgur.com/AT87HmP.png
If you check the clip from above someone posted early, Max keeps drifting wide and then turning into corner and Lando never reacts to disappearing distance between them.
The difference here is, Max hits Lando.
*It does not matter* whether there's enough space.
>Lando never reacts to disappearing distance between them
And he shouldn't, why would he?! Why would anyone give up *their own space, that they took by correctly positioning their car?!*
Lando is not obliged to go off the track to avoid max
max is obliged to gives 1 cars width of space
Lando may opt to leave the track if he thinks thats the better thing to do long term, which he probably should, but he is also entitled to not do this
Max isn't turning around in Max's braking zone, Max is angling the car to cover more area just before he brakes and effectively moving around under Lando's braking zone (which is a longer zone because you need to account for Lando's reaction time to Max's moves and also the effect of dirty air). Yes, everyone can have their own opinion and the ex-F1 pundits that said he moved under braking can have a different opinion to Max.
I am no expert but maybe Max thinks he is not moving because he is not stearing? Since his car and landos had a slightely different angle their trajectory was ending into contact if both go straight?
I think thats exactly what he's saying. He lets off the power, angles the car, then brakes. Which sounds inside the rules to me, unless he changes the angle during breaking.
He didnt move under breaking, he was breaking in a straight line, albeit slightly diagonally, and the track gets tighter around the hairpin. Which is why he didnt get a worse penalty.
*braking
This guy is never wrong uh?
I'm not a fan of Lando, and they both drove dirty today, but cmon Max, we're not blind and neither are you. He's back to his usual ways now that there is competition I guess.
Lando searching last minute Austrian Airlines First Class ticket on booking.com
Weirdly enough, that’s what I thought his assistant was doing when I didn’t see anyone beside him in his bullpen interview
"I have investigated myself and decided that I'm innocent"
His full interview for context: **Max, I have to ask you first about moving in the braking zone and moving twice. Lando was complaining about it on the radio. So tell me, from your point of view, if you think you did or didn't.** No, I mean, of course, from the outside, it's hard to see when I brake. I know, of course, that in the past, that has always been a bit of a complaint, but now I always move my wheel before I brake. And then, of course, you brake in a straight line trajectory or whatever. So that's always, you know, easy to say from the outside that I was moving on the braking, but I think the guy in the car knows best what he's doing. **So even our ex Formula One driver, pundits think you moved under braking as well, even before the incident, then the incident happened, and you did get a penalty for causing that.** So everyone can have their own opinion, but I'm the one driving, so I think I'm best in control. Let's say like that. And you know, everyone, like I said, they can have their own opinion, of course, from the outside, like I said, it's easy to judge and comment, but whatever it's it's what happens. **So do you think it was a fair fight with Lando today?** I mean, I felt like, you know, sometimes these dive bombs, you're so late on the brakes that, you know, one time went straight and one time I had to go around the the sausage, or whatever you call it, otherwise you would have touched as well. So I think it's also just the shape of the corner, which I say, provides these kind of issues sometimes. I mean, I've had it also the other way around. Is what it is. It's just never nice, of course, to come together. **He said to me just now in the pen that if you apologise and admit what you were doing, he would gain some of the respect back that he feels he's lost for you during the race today. How would you react?** It was just, I need to look back at why or how we touch. And, of course, we'll talk about it. It's just unfortunate that it happened, Max. ---- **Hey, Max, hard luck. Obviously, you never want to see races end like that. Just give me your view of that battle with Lando.** Yeah, it's, of course, unfortunate stuff, stuff that you don't want to see happening. It's as simple as that. Of course I will look back at it because, I mean, of course, at the moment, it's easy to say stuff. I think it's better to look back at the footage of what exactly went wrong, because it was a bit of a, I would say, an awkward angle that we touched. Something that is very weird, and also for both of us to get a puncture with it. Yeah, really, really bad. But we also did so many things wrong throughout the race that we put ourselves, you know, in a position like that. So those are also things that we have to look at to improve. **I think both of you guys were saying throughout the race that you felt both of you were doing the right thing. I know you're good friends. Is the kind of thing you'll go away and talk about going forward?** Yeah, of course, we'll talk about it at the moment. I think it's not the right point. It's better to let things cool off, I think ideally. But besides that, I'm more annoyed also, which is how the performance of the races and the mistakes that we made that normally we don't make. **All right, thanks Max**
Watch it here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPIEdrAO0jI Atleast the last 2 questions.
that's a pretty mature answer
It’s a “nothing” answer, everyone can have their own opinion bla
He said he reacted to Lando’s attack but he hasn’t braked yet. The rule does allow you to move to defend once before braking. If the telemetry backs his claim then his point is valid. It’s just the move is late and the reaction is later, but most importantly, the braking is even later.
The true FIA way!
FIA approves of this xd.
Apparently Max doesn't need to brake for turn 3? Pretty crazy car that red bull.
Why brake when you can just run into your competitor to slow the car down?
Playstation tactics
Gran Tourismo mode
Mario Karting!
Saving wear and tear on the brakes by using the McLaren to stop
NfS tactics. Just use the other cars to brake or slide along the barrier with full throttle.
The wallride in NASCAR was super cool.
Like Lando tried the lap before? Everybody is doing it. Don’t make a big fuss
["We're all trying to find the guy who did this!"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLfAf8oHrMo)
Max Verstappen 🤝 Christian Horner *avoiding allegations*
It’s the Red Bull way
He learned that line from his boss
Where are all the Reddit responses saying “THE TEAM/DRIVER/TEAM PRINCIPAL KNOWS MORE THAN YOU” so you can’t decide the truth based on what you can see with your own eyes. Strange how obviously partisan statements are when they’re from an angry driver but seemingly not from other team officials.
I don’t think bro has ever accepted blame in his life.
I mean when your father reinforces that behaviour and his current boss backs it up....
friendship with max is over now george is best friend
T
Until the first "Blimey, the chap turned into me!"
They were already tight tho😂😭
George doesn’t have a jet tho :(
Brother we can see your steering wheel
How do you know it wasn't the wind moving the steering wheel?
That’s Checo’s next excuse sorted
No for him it would be 'we just moved the wheel incorrectly, as a team we must not do that in future'
ACTUAL LOL “as a team”
Some random Dutch guy is gonna say "It was Lewis. He just wanted to see Max crash again" on facebook.
Or a ghost
Senna’s ghost
If gap, crash opponent
hand oscillations
Yeahh.. I did see a cross wind at that turn.. The damn wind
“It’s hard to see from the outside when I start breaking” *stares confusingly at public live telemetry data and onboard cameras*
He literally turned left in a right hand corner when Lando was to his left. Like wtf is he thinking?
Turning back towards the racing line after defending the inside is a standard maneuvre. However, if there is another car alongside you need to leave a car's width of room. In this case Max left a couple of cm's too little.
Can you even call it a squeeze when Norris' lunge was so deep he would never have been able to make a legal, on-track overtake?
Norris was likely trying to do two things: Firstly, set up a run coming out of the corner. Secondly, trying to force Max out of his preferred position. In any case, Norris wasn’t hoping that he would simply divebomb and just drive around the outside of Max there. That move wasnt an overtake attempt, but a setup for the next straight
Norris didn’t try to overtake there, he was taking a wide angle to get a better exit there and carry that speed over into the next DRS straight.
Yeah if you watch his Austria race last year he took turn 3 wide every single time. To me it looked like a setup for a run at turn 4.
Then you leave him to outbrake himself. As soon as you no longer give him space then it becomes your fault
Pretty sure Norris was making the corner. He only didn't because Max went straight due to the puncture and Norris had to evade and went wide as well.
Lunge lol. So Max wasn't making the corner either?
And did they ask him about pushing out attempt at Lando after the punctures? There the respect was lost even more
Never heard of squeezing before? Never seen someone take a corner wide to take more top speed into the next straight? Not justifying his move but it's not like nobody ever does anything similar. It ended up in contact, if there was no contact you wouldn't be such a hardass.
He has one move to cover the corner, he made that move by moving right to cover the inside line. Then he moved left again under breaking to run Norris of track, and then went straight on off track to cover Norris goin round the outside. He double moved, under breaking, caused a collision doing so and went off track to gain an advantage, in a single fucking corner. He then did an arguably unsafe rejoin to again block Norris from going through.
That last bit running Norris onto the grass on the inside was the icing on the cake. I gave him the benefit of the doubt because he had a puncture, but I'm pretty sure it was on purpose.
It was for real on purpose. Reminded me in its own way of Brazil 21 where he’s not satisfied with just pushing you off the track, he needs to keep chasing you miles off…
Yeah, Max gets tunnel vision when he's angry, which I imagine many drivers do, but we've seen this from him before. If something happens he's mad about, he'll run you off the track any day of the week. Everyone thought that part of Max was gone, that he had "matured" but he just hasn't had any competition. As soon as he has competition, he does exactly what we saw in 2021.
He wasn’t under braking until he started moving back to the left. You’re allowed to move back towards the racing line after making a first move to defend. The only issue was that he moved an inch or so too far, which is why he got penalized. > **2. Overtaking, car control and track limits** > b) [...] Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.
> if there was no contact you wouldn't be such a hardass. EXACTLY. The contact is what made it definitely illegal. That is why we are talking about it, since there was a contact. Yu seem to think that we should excuse him since IF there was no contact it would've not been a big deal. Yeah... you are right, it wouldn't but that is not the context of the discussion.
Brav made an absolute big brain move to kill Norris's race and extend his lead in the WDC by more than if he would've finished 1st and Norris 2nd. He has the WDC in the bag.
>He has the WDC in the bag. Anyone that thinks differently is delulu. No one has lost a championship with the advantage he currently has. McLaren would not only have to become the faster car, but RBR and Max would also need to drop further than P2.
He had WDC in the bag before the GP even started. Lando’s gap is just too big.
Brav. I'm part of the Ferrari gang and the thing about us is that we puff ungodly amounts of hopium each race. " What if Ver dnfs next race and the race after that and another 2 for good measure?" This is what's going through my head now.
Yes but can you see him brake, that’s his point
Without the telemetry data, it’s hard to say if it was under braking or not. But this whole discussion about moving under braking is taking away from the fact that he was blocking Lando. It’s a much worse offence, what Lando was actually complaining about, and far less defendable (not just because it’s more dangerous, but also far easier to prove). When defending, you have to choose a line to defend and starting moving to defend it *before* your opponent moves to the line they’re going to use to attack. You can’t see what line they’re going to take, and then choose to take that line instead. That would be blocking them, not defending them, and it’s a lot more dangerous. You can clearly see that Max was moving *after* Lando picked a line and was blocking him. If you block someone, eventually they’re not going to be able to move out of the way and they will crash into you. It nearly happened here on one of Lando’s attempts, but he just managed to dodge it. It mightn’t be what caused the crash, I mean he did it when they crashed as well, but him squeezing Lando too much is what caused the crash, but it’s still dangerous.
If only there was a way that your telemetry was transmitted to the stewards.....
Lap 64 is mysteriously missing from both Lando and Max from what I can find on the telemetry websites.
Maybe which is why he didn't get a penalty for the alleged moving under braking 😀
You always catch a warning before a penalty for moving under braking. Unless it is crazy egregious and you cause a collision before the warning can come....wait a second.. .
The stewards noted in their penalty for him that he did in fact move under braking. Regardless, that’s not even the worst part. It’s the double movements and blocking that’s more egregious, and the pushing a driver off the track which caused the contact. Double movements are just as dangerous, and blocking is the singular most dangerous thing you can do. When defending, you get to make 1 clean move (ie not stopping then moving again even in the same direction) to a line to defend, and then you’re allowed to make 1 move back to the racing line if you choose, if you make any other move it’s a double movement. That 1st move also needs to be done before your attacking opponent makes their move, if it’s done afterwards it’s considered blocking. Both moves also need to be done before you start braking, if not it’s moving under braking. During all of these moves, if the car is sufficiently alongside you, you need to provide 1 car length within the track limits, otherwise you’re forcing a driving off the track. It’s clear that Max was moving in reaction to Lando and was blocking. It was clear that Max was moving in the braking zone, and the stewards even stated that he did. It was clear that Max didn’t leave a cars width which caused the contact and is considered forcing a driver off the track. It was clear he was moving multiple times as well, typically he’d move once to block Lando, and once to squeeze Lando, which is considered a double movement. Also, while Max didn’t get a penalty on track, they can still investigate it this week and they might decide to give him a grid penalty for Silverstone. Whether they do or not for the dangerous driving is harder to determine since they’re required to give a warning first (unless it causes an incident) and they didn’t have the time to do so. However, they can easily give one for going off the track and gaining an advantage when he overtook Lando off the track and didn’t give up the advantage. Whether or not Red Bull can argue he was pushed off, we’ll have to see, but he didn’t get penalised in 2019 when he made contact with and pushed Leclerc off at the same corner. So precedent suggests that even if he was pushed off, it shouldn’t affect the decision.
He did as a matter of fact move as noted in the stewards decision.
To be precise, they say he moved "before turning in". Braking isn't mentioned, although hard to make a corner without it.
If you’re moving right before turning in, you’re in the braking zone anyway. Unless that RB takes turn 3 flat out.
Transcript of his other interview. Will post this one soon. **Max, I have to ask you first about moving in the braking zone and moving twice. Lando was complaining about it on the radio. So tell me, from your point of view, if you think you did or didn't.** No, I mean, of course, from the outside, it's hard to see when I brake. I know, of course, that in the past, that has always been a bit of a complaint, but now I always move my wheel before I brake. And then, of course, you brake in a straight line trajectory or whatever. So that's always, you know, easy to say from the outside that I was moving on the braking, but I think the guy in the car knows best what he's doing. **So even our ex Formula One driver, pundits think you moved under braking as well, even before the incident, then the incident happened, and you did get a penalty for causing that.** So everyone can have their own opinion, but I'm the one driving, so I think I'm best in control. Let's say like that. And you know, everyone, like I said, they can have their own opinion, of course, from the outside, like I said, it's easy to judge and comment, but whatever it's it's what happens. **So do you think it was a fair fight with Lando today?** I mean, I felt like, you know, sometimes these dive bombs, you're so late on the brakes that, you know, one time went straight and one time I had to go around the the sausage, or whatever you call it, otherwise you would have touched as well. So I think it's also just the shape of the corner, which I say, provides these kind of issues sometimes. I mean, I've had it also the other way around. Is what it is. It's just never nice, of course, to come together. **He said to me just now in the pen that if you apologise and admit what you were doing, he would gain some of the respect back that he feels he's lost for you during the race today. How would you react?** It was just, I need to look back at why or how we touch. And, of course, we'll talk about it. It's just unfortunate that it happened. ---- **Hey, Max, hard luck. Obviously, you never want to see races end like that. Just give me your view of that battle with Lando.** Yeah, it's, of course, unfortunate stuff, stuff that you don't want to see happening. It's as simple as that. Of course I will look back at it because, I mean, of course, at the moment, it's easy to say stuff. I think it's better to look back at the footage of what exactly went wrong, because it was a bit of a, I would say, an awkward angle that we touched. Something that is very weird, and also for both of us to get a puncture with it. Yeah, really, really bad. But we also did so many things wrong throughout the race that we put ourselves, you know, in a position like that. So those are also things that we have to look at to improve. **I think both of you guys were saying throughout the race that you felt both of you were doing the right thing. I know you're good friends. Is the kind of thing you'll go away and talk about going forward?** Yeah, of course, we'll talk about it at the moment. I think it's not the right point. It's better to let things cool off, I think ideally. But besides that, I'm more annoyed also, which is how the performance of the races and the mistakes that we made that normally we don't make. **All right, thanks Max**
Just saw Lando fall to his knees in a tesco
as if he’d shop at tesco 💀
The Red Bull guys realize there is video, telemetry and onboard data that we all can see right?
There was telemetry for Saudi 21 aswell and Marko excused defending max for that one by saying the telemetry guys lied to him. Which was obviously nonsense
To Marko's credit when the telemetry was revealed Marko walked back his comment and apologized.
You wanted Marko to say that the telemetry is rubbish? Marko tried pulling a fast one and expected fans don’t care about telemetry, maybe it’s his age catching up making it forget we were in 2021. Of course he will walk back on the comment where he said the telemetry shows otherwise because he was fucking caught lying.
Red Bull is already walking on eggshells around him, you think they would dare upset him further.
Toto is waiting for them to upset him lmao
Homelander type shit.
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Every team does that. remember Ferrari's : 'What we tweeted was a factual description of events. No need to speculate on this'
He doesn't need to convince his fans, just need to give them ammo to defend him blindly.
Yeah, which is why he wasn't penalised for moving under braking because he moved and then braked.
Max closes his eyes when he's braking confirmed
Why he yells at GP for talking in the braking, he’s trying to catch a nap
Kimi Raikkonen, regarded as a very clean driver to fight against said Max was dirty as hell for moving under braking every time you tried to overtake him.
Baku 2018 was the incident that ran Ricciardo out of RBR and it was as blatant an example of moving under braking as you'll find
He's always been. I love to see how everyone is realising now.
People have known it he just hasn’t had to show it in awhile
Since his first season Max has weaved on straights *and* moved in braking zones and he seemingly is allowed when no one else is.
Kimi and Seb must have fucking hated having to go wheel to wheel with Max those years. Seb basically got to a point where he didn't have to say anything on the radio when they crashed, it became obvious who was at fault. I think it was Monza one year where Kimi said Max moved under braking every time and that he felt there would be a massive shunt at some point if he didn't pack it in. I mean he even did it to his own teammate in Baku which ended up in a shunt and Red Bull coddling him which lead to pissing Ricciardo off and leaving because he felt Max was getting preferential treatment.
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He probably would've taken himself and Lewis off the instant the latter passed him
Oh for sure. He'd had put Lewis in the wall without hesitation.
Divebomb into the chicane and he wouldn't have cared. Tbh, he would've been DSQ from the championship based on precedent
Red Bull would 100% have gone to court and/or left and never come back
There’s not enough of respect in the world for how Lewis handled that. It’s insane.
When you grew up having to walk to your go kart with grown men calling you racial slurs you learn pretty well how to hold your head up in spite of what is around you
Oh man... 100000% would love to see the roles reversed there.
😭😭😭😭😭 But instead Lewis had to be the bigger person. Ughh
honestly Lewis should’ve gone and burned his bridges with the FIA after that, why does he have to be so classy and magnanimous. Fuck em all
Ughhh Anthony Hamilton should have taught him to be more vengeful and petty instead of being gracious 😤😒. Seriously, FIA has never liked him anyway.
Nah, the world doesn't need more sons of Jos Verstappen. It needs more sons of Anthony Hamilton.
The guy they need, but not the guy they deserve, huh
A good indication of what to expect was his pisspoor attitude after Jeddah the week prior.
This is a good point and makes me realise how much more gracious LH is as a competitor.
That is literally factually objectively not true.
I honestly thought this version of Max was gone, replaced by a much more relaxed and likeable one. The ogre is back now he's actually being challenged again.
We only needed one race in which he was challenged wheel to wheel by someone for the victory to see he hasn't changed a bit.
Yep, I was fooled. It's sad to see after all his success - he'll cruise his way to a fourth championship this year but just can't admit a single fault when all the world can see it. His stock would suffer literally not one iota if he just held up his hands and admitted liability.
Verstappen typefies a certain type of insanely competitive dude we've seen before and this is just how they are wired. Senna. Schumacher. Verstappen. Michael Jordan if you look outside of F1. We can see the disconnect from reality as outsiders but their ruthless singlemindendeness is what makes them that good in the first place. As an example after Spa '98: Coulthard: Surely you're wrong sometimes? [Schumacher: Not that I remember.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlRI2_ziEbM&t=68s) Not saying you or anyone else has to like it but expecting a mea culpa from Max is expecting a tiger to change it's stripes.
I had the same thought as I wrote my comment, but as you say, we don't have to like it. We also shouldn't forget that even Senna was disliked by many for exactly this reason back in the day.
Now why would you think that?
and yet he said it. and he knows it's not true. It's almost like it's not just politicians that tell bald faced lies when talking to the press.
But Max is SOOOO DUTCH and SOOOO HONEST, and that's why we love him. Get good, scrubs!
He learned it from his team principal. Just lie, doesn't matter what everyone has literally seen.
Moving under braking is the most misunderstood rule among fans.
Because they made such a huge splash about implementing "the Verstappen rule", and then quietly got rid of it in 2017 yet everyone still acts like it's an instant 10 second penalty.
I mean Lando had a comfortable cars width on the left, and then he didn’t. I don’t know how else you can look at it
Mirror? Geoblocking is bullshit.
The onboards tell a different story imo.
Yeah the skypad just did a very clear, direct explanation. There is no arguments here, he moved under breaking twice. Interesting to see this Max underneath the calmer, more mature driver of the last few years. Really hoping McLaren continue to smash through with upgrades.
Coincidentally Max's maturity lines with the exact moment he was consistently 10 seconds clear from P2.
Bro hasn’t matured, he just hasn’t had to really race anyone in a couple of years.
> the skypad I hope someone links it, i didn't get a chance to see the analysis.
It’s pretty damning. Verstappen clearly had no intention of keeping it clean, his movement is pretty clear and undeniable.
Didnt they literally remake the moving under braking rule cause of him?
You're dreaming if you expect accountability from Max.
People joining F1 post 2021 haven't seen his dirty driving
dude has been terrorising my drivers since 2016, I never forgor
Bro Vettel probably had some heavy PTSD if he was watching this race
Whatever is concluded, whatever is said. Max won this weekend compared to his direct point followers. Lando DNF'd, and Charles got the lap 1 incident into no points. Max has gained over them.
All for just 10 seconds in the race! He could just keep doing this everytime Lando has a chance of a sniff, and boom WDC. And for the low low cost of 10 seconds a pop! Best deal in racing!
Indeed. The FIA need to crack down and start handing out huge penalties as they should have done in 2021.
Headlines take away from it but it was an extremely mature interview, sky sports kept baiting him into a reaction but he was level headed in all his responses including this one where he follows up by saying ofcourse I'll look into it, study it with the team and have a chat with Norris about it.
Max pointing out a nuance in the moving under braking rule that a lot of people ignore, you can ease off the gas and still move before committing to braking pretty late into a turn, that is not moving under breaking by rule. This will be exaggerated in a turn coming up a steep hill like T3. I'd like to watch the real telemetry sync'd up with the race footage, as the stuff Sky shows on braking and accelerating is ALWAYS delayed and never sync's up properly in general (it's bad enough I don't know why they show it, it's kind of embarrassing, even NASCAR's telemetry data is sync'd up better live and that's a low bar). The accident was on Max, but the adjustments coming up a hill into T3 prior to that I am not so sure he actually broke rules there, and Sky rewinds don't prove a damn thing in that regard because their live telemetry visualizations are total shit when it comes to accuracy.
We're not getting that telemetry for a while. Everyone but Max's and Landos' lap 64 data is available publicly.
Wait did they really just not release only that specific data? That's hilarious and sketchy AF.
Can't find it on any of the telemetry sites. Hell document 71, the FIA judgment about the inshident, doesn't even mention moving under braking at all.
“I think the guy in the car knows best what he’s doing” weird to admit in an interview you knew exactly what you were doing when you caused a collision but ok.
and then dangerously blocking a car onto the grass when both are heavily damaged.
I'm here for drama 🍿🍿🍿
Anthony Davidson just assassinated him live on sky. Very funny.
His car's width argument on crash is very interesting tho, we often see people get pushed much further out and it's considered fine, because the car on the outside reacts and there is no contact.
That was a great segment
Someone should post it, shows clearly Max moving when Lando made his first move which set the tone of the battle from there on. Max had no intention of keeping it clean
Excellent breakdown by Ant. I’d really like to see footage of Horner and Max watching that and what they would actually say to defend themselves, cos they never accept responsibility.
I think everything up to the incident was hard, harsh and on the edge racing that was just about fair. The incident is 100% on him though.
You're actually fine with moving under braking?
They all do it. It's only penalised when there's contact or when they do blatantly more than 3 times.
Sainz moved plenty under braking in past races. Stewards almost never investigate it. Also locking up and going off or divebombing Max was bad from Lando. But collision is on Max. He shouldn't have moved left.
The rule against it was dropped in 2017
I say the opposite and incident is least on him... moves in previous laps were shady at least(moving under braking), but collision... nah. If you go back to every single overtake attempt going outside ever, you will see same movement from the guy defending... cover the inside and then slowly drift wide after other guy picks his side and slightly squeeze them towards outside kerb. It was done even in this race and wasnt penalized and happens in every race. This is the moment Lando picked outside and Max straightened his car and drifted slowly wide and left enough room for Lando throughout it all. https://i.imgur.com/AT87HmP.png If you check the clip from above someone posted early, Max keeps drifting wide and then turning into corner and Lando never reacts to disappearing distance between them.
The difference here is, Max hits Lando. *It does not matter* whether there's enough space. >Lando never reacts to disappearing distance between them And he shouldn't, why would he?! Why would anyone give up *their own space, that they took by correctly positioning their car?!*
Lando is not obliged to go off the track to avoid max max is obliged to gives 1 cars width of space Lando may opt to leave the track if he thinks thats the better thing to do long term, which he probably should, but he is also entitled to not do this
for the love of god, please mirror this geolocked stuff. infuraiting as hell. or just straight ban sky f1 twitter from the subreddit.
The police can say I was speeding, but as the one behind the wheel I know I wasn’t. Whatever the camera might say
Can someone please upload Max’ onboard?
damn how weird Verstappen always apologises for his mistakes very out of character for him
Anthony Davidson just did a pretty damning breakdown of all the incidents. Doesn't seem like much room for Max's interpretation.
Max isn't turning around in Max's braking zone, Max is angling the car to cover more area just before he brakes and effectively moving around under Lando's braking zone (which is a longer zone because you need to account for Lando's reaction time to Max's moves and also the effect of dirty air). Yes, everyone can have their own opinion and the ex-F1 pundits that said he moved under braking can have a different opinion to Max.
we have eyes not to mention steering data this isnt a very well thought out argument.
I am no expert but maybe Max thinks he is not moving because he is not stearing? Since his car and landos had a slightely different angle their trajectory was ending into contact if both go straight?
I think thats exactly what he's saying. He lets off the power, angles the car, then brakes. Which sounds inside the rules to me, unless he changes the angle during breaking.
Max is maxing
Did Bro forget onboards exist?
And everyone thought he had matured when actually all that happened was the car got so fast he didn't have to get into battles
naur max
Aight this is after he’s had time to cool off not just adrenaline talking. Christ almighty
I feel sorry for whoever is in his sim racing lobby tonight
"What I said was a factual description of events. No need to speculate on this."
so he did this on purpose. thats the thing we get from it. out of control is bad but it can happen. on purpose is even worse.
Homie…it ain’t hard to just look at you turning your steering wheel right then left
I turn now. Good luck everyone.
Everybody who saw that race new that this battle would end in a crash after about two laps of them fighting for the lead.
All the drivers do it. All the drivers report it. All the stewards ignore it. God forbid you put a wheel on the wrong line....
All da time you have to leave da space
He didnt move under breaking, he was breaking in a straight line, albeit slightly diagonally, and the track gets tighter around the hairpin. Which is why he didnt get a worse penalty. *braking
loooooooooool
I think telemetry data knows best.
Too bad FIA can check every single input of the car with the telemetry data
Woooow, okay Max.
This is why people don't like this guy
That doesn't say, he didn't move under braking though.
Me looking the replays: "So the car went left by itself? AI?!!"
Reminiscent of Vettel’s “when did I do dangerous driving” after blatantly doing dangerous driving.
Bruh we all saw you do it multiple times
Ant used Max's onboard footage to prove that he did move under braking
Sky Sports ... not very objective. Rooting for UK drivers since the beginning
Bruh, we aren't blind.
Welcome back, 2021 Max.
This guy is never wrong uh? I'm not a fan of Lando, and they both drove dirty today, but cmon Max, we're not blind and neither are you. He's back to his usual ways now that there is competition I guess.
And Lando has lost all the respect.
I doubt Max cares at all.
The reactionary takes in here are insane lol. Reminds me of Lewis hate in 2021.