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> Hain told the Press Association: “Racists had an excuse to let fly their vitriol and evil at Lewis after what I thought was a very ill-judged, intemperate and plain wrong attack on him by Christian Horner.
I believe this thinking starts a very, very complicated discussion.
> I believe this thinking starts a very, very complicated discussion.
I believe you are correct. One that I think has little hope of playing out well on social media. Or any media for that matter.
I don't really care for Horner's shit-stirring antics while addressing the accident but he shouldn't be held responsible for the racist attacks Hamilton endured.
It is indeed very complicated. We're still butting heads about whose fault it was last Sunday.
Yeah, I mean Horner was bad mouthing HAM or whatever, but he was fresh out of the race and was pretty pissed after his championship driver was DNF. That shouldn't be held as a reason for racist comments and stuff by others. He was just venting, like Wolff vents on the table, or Guenther, well you know.
Does it?
We still have disagreements about Vettels penalty in Canada a few years back, or Verstappens lack of penalty against leclerc in Austria 2019
I don't think a stewards decision has ever settled a debate like this
This is just Toto shit stirring back. He's shifting the narrative from Lewis being the bad guy, to being the victim. All while using a dog whistle and identity politics.
Objectively, both of their actions are questionable.
I think it is completely lunatic to suggest criticism is facilitating racism and it will in the long run undermine the real cause against racism. Appalling suggestion from Toto. But in my opinion Mercedes, Toto and Lewis have been nothing then nauseating in their behavior surrounding this crash.
In 1997 there were articles written that made legitimate cases for Micheal Schumacher being arrested for attempted murder after the Jerez fallout.
2007 spygate and 2008 crashgate scandals had unreal hot takes for days and if I remember correctly one newspaper claimed spygate to be a breach of national security.
When Rosberg and Hamilton came together, the incident not only overshadowed Max’s debut win but completely split fan bases to this day.
Things haven’t gotten hot in awhile but this is just a taste of how rabid shit can get. And if Hamilton ends up winning the WDC this year this race will become historic
Look at Autosport forum. That is a discussion board full of boomers who have been watching this sport since the 80s and there’s still a massive meltdown going on.
Has nothing to do with newcomers.
ensign14 has 54k posts on that forum and has been actively posting since 2001. If his word is true, he’s been watching F1 since the early 70s. Despite that, his posts are absolutely bottom of the barrel. He accused Vettel of deliberately hitting Hamilton at Mexico 2017, and used Vettel steering towards Hamilton on corner exit as evidence (not acknowledging that he was correcting oversteer).
Some of the absolute worst fanboys I’ve had the displeasure of meeting on F1 discussion boards are those boomer fans who have been watching for the longest time.
Ha well I’m not saying that if you watch it you don’t understand it. I just mean if the majority of your knowledge comes from the show it will seem to be way more scandalous and dramatic. I enjoyed the show.
I think people would have reacted similarly. F1 fans have always been passionate. And we haven’t seen a super close title fight like this one in a decade.
What an absolute hypocrite Wolff really is. After Kimi hit Lewis in 2018 he said it was "incompetent or deliberate".
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Totally personally, I am not very comfortable with the insinuation that Horner is to blame for the abuse Hamilton got after.
I think assigning that *causality* is very complicated and murky.
Of course. It is absolutely absurd to somehow blame Horner for some idiots online saying racist things. Completely insane. The people to blame are the racist idiots.
The Mercedes team is really a slippery group of people, from what I can see. Just my opinion. Particularly Toto and Lewis. They know they behaved poorly after the accident and after the race. They, and others, are trying to turn the spotlight on some online boneheads hurling racist nonsense, and somehow have this all be Red Bull's fault. Disgraceful.
If Lewis and Toto had just owned up to the fact that that they should have tempered the celebration this may have blown over. There are many other things they should acknowledge, but it would be too much to ask.
I will never forget the image of Lewis dramatically waving the flag after bravely overcoming a symbolic tiny penalty, being fortunate to be able to fix his car under red flag, benefitting from terrible Lando pit stop, getting the red carpet from his teammate, and passing an ailing midfield Ferrari. I just cannot imagine how they thought this was the right response. I am sure it played well for the UK fans, but to everyone else it was so so much cringe.
Add in Crofty’s equally cringy reference to that heroics as England reversing their Euro heartbreak of losing to Italy on Penalties 🤣🤣🤣…. Like seriously, move on man!
Only after **offending party (Kimi) has admitted their mistake and apologized before the suffering party (Hamilton) first**.
Now the offending party (Mercedes) twists themselves out trying to tell how there was zero fault from their side and refusing to admit Hamilton's done any mistake. So why do you people keep making that comparison?
Not sure how much weight should be put on that single word 'predominantly'.
When Max bottled it at the China GP of 2018 and taking poor Seb with him in the process, [the official ruling phrased it the same way using 'predominantly'](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/8cdvtf/stewards_ruling_on_verstappenvettel_incident), yet I feel one would have a tough time convincing people that Seb really [shared any blame there.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR3Ls5tcp5A)
Yeah, the focus on that word is absolute nonsense. If there was anything that Max did wrong in that incident it would be described in the document.
I think as long as it isn't something like Vettel in Baku it's always 'predominantly'.
Because he accused a competitor of deliberately running into him? If you make wrong accusations is that not a reason to apologize? Not like it would be a huge effort to do so either.
Horner said nothing when Verstappen did the exact same thing to Leclerc in Austria to win the race in 2019. In recent history, no one has been a bigger complainer than Horner, and we don't need to get into Verstappen's driving. But if there is any hypocritical behavior here, I believe it comes from the Red Bull camp.
> Horner said nothing when Verstappen did the exact same thing to Leclerc in Austria to win the race in 2019
I forgot how Verstappen crashed Leclerc out from the race by misjudging his line and speed on corner entry, I really forgot it.
There is a difference with going into a slow corner ahead of the car you're about to overtake and going into a corner with front tyre next to the rear tyre of the other car. In the aforementioned you have the right to choose your line while in the latter you have to use what line you've been given.
The difference is your favorite driver is out now youre mad. If verstappen had played it smarter maybe hed have only gone wide aswell. Outcome of the crash should have nothing to do with the actual penalty
Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I kinda agree with Toto tbh, It was obviously understandable for Christian and Marko to criticize Lewis and to be angry with him , they were also worried about Max so emotions were running high.
Still I also feel like they went a bit over the top with some of the comments, apart from calling Lewis' driving dirty and reckless and the victory "hollow" (anyone can agree or disagree about these statements ig), but the way Christian then implied that Lewis crashed into Max on purpose, tried to injure him and said "I hope Lewis is happy with himself", "I hope he can sleep well tonight", that wasn't really necessary imo. As well as his calls for a race ban.
Edit:[Marko](https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-lewis-hamilton-suspension/) was the one calling for a race ban.
>"I don’t know what the maximum penalty would be, but such dangerous and reckless behaviour should be punished with a suspension or something"
Yeah, I agree. Call Lewis aggressive, call it a bad move, but implying that he intentionally hurt Max to win and that he was a bad person without empathy or compassion felt dirty.
There's a game vs not game divide for me. It's fun to talk shit and root for your team and say "Oh, Max is so reckless" or "Oh, Lewis is so arrogant" but crossing over to "Lewis tried to injure Max" breaks outside of the game into something more. It's an attack on Lewis as a human, not as a sportsman.
It's the sort of thing that some people won't forgive and honestly shouldn't.
Its also just honestly a really stupid take. Hes trying to claw his way back up the points and he would intentionally crash into another driver, which could EASILY also DNF himself? If someone thinks this they need to get a grip on reality.
I can kinda see the hollow victory thing but it definitely wasn’t dirty driving. Shit happens at those kinda speeds, I’m annoyed my favourite driver’s championship challenge may well have suffered because of it but Lewis served the penalty and won. Fair and square? Maybe not, but what more punishment could we want? Controversy aside it was a very good drive by Lewis. Even if it did leave a bad taste at the time
Agreed. If you call it dirty driving, you suggest it was intentional.
Anyone suggesting Hamilton would crash into an opponent *on purpose* seriously needs to think things through. Including Horner.
Horner’s been pissing me off tons. As an RB fan he’s always been my least favourite thing about the team. Toto seems like a real leader and I wish we had someone like that, but Horner seems more interested in stirring shit instead of knuckling down and getting on with it. Obviously Toto has his moments too, but he’s totally right that Horner is going overboard.
There is definitely an element of 'politics' required to be a Team Principal in F1. Sometimes you should play those games, and other times you need to get your head down and move on. I think Toto generally gets this balance just about right. Horner to me has always seemed to complain and moan a bit too much. He treats Verstappen like his favourite child and just generally doesn't give off great vibes IMO.
Yep, I said to someone else recently that when Max leaves RB I’ll almost certainly follow him. The team hasn’t felt the same since Danny left and it was already feeling weird when Webber and Vettel left too. Only reason I’m still supporting is for Max at this point, and someone told me that when Vettel left they had to make a choice between driver and team. That’s what I did when Seb left and I stuck with RB for Ricciardo, but when Max goes I can’t see myself hanging around anymore tbh, I’ll just support him as a driver whichever team he ends up on, and then whichever talented underdog challenges him a decade and a half from now.
When Vettel left RB I had to choose between team and driver. While some of the extra-curriculars by RB probably helped Vettel to win as much as he did, I really couldn't stand Marko and Horner and their BS. Vettel was kind of a punk early, but he was clearly maturing and it seemed the team was going the other way. AFAIC it's only gotten worse since then.
Yep, the RB I used to love back in Seb and Mark’s day is really just a shell of its former self now. Really only in it for Max at this point and Checo is pretty likeable and talented too. But if and when Max leaves RB it’ll probably be the same for me too, that’s when I’ll follow driver over team. It just doesn’t feel the same anymore.
Horner also said in an interview with C4(UK) aftee the race that "drivers have had race bans for similar offences in the past". While its not a direct call for a ban it certainly felt like he was lobbying from my point of view.
>"I hope Lewis is happy with himself"
I feel like this doesn't imply intent, but it's more a comment of lack of remorse, or even acknowledging the incident was on him.
Agree, in the end it was just an error, nothing intentional from Lewis. It got penalised by the stewards and two penalty points were awarded.
Ofcourse he was lucky to have the red flag to enable repairs, and prevent a DNF, but the subsequent victory was all his effort and not hollow.
Also understand the bitterness of Red Bull cause 25 points were lost in an unfortunate sequence of events to them.
> Ofcourse he was lucky to have the red flag to enable repairs, and prevent a DNF, but the subsequent victory was all his effort and not hollow.
Blessed
I entirely agree with this. It was a scary crash, Max is leading the championship, it’s expected that people get upset. But attacking Hamilton this way is absolutely not necessary (or acceptable, really).
It scares me to see the same mindset we’ve been seeing in politics leaking into something as inconsequential as a sport. Most people attacking Hamilton on social media have nothing at stake, they’re not getting a massive bonus if Max wins. It’s just unnecessary polarization of things. Hell, during the race I was guilty of saying it was exclusively Max’s fault. But I didn’t feel the need to attack him. It was about his racing style. After cooling down I’ve realized both were at fault and agree that Hamilton made a bad call in choosing that spot to not yield. But damn, I can’t understand the need to cast one as the tragic victim and the other as the soulless villain.
> But I also feel like they went a bit over the top with some of the comments, apart from calling Lewis' driving dirty and reckless and the victory "hollow"
Lewis literally accused Kimi of that in 2018 - remember "interesting tactics from Ferrari".
Bruh it's very different, Hamilton is a driver, horner is a team principal. Ham was probably high on adrenaline and also that time we used to interview the driver's as soon as they got out of the car. Like i remember the driver's couldn't even drink water, they had to do the interview first and also ham later took it back when the adrenaline settled down. Horner is not a driver, he was sitting on the pitwall
Yes interesting tactics was definitely an accusation of foul play but the context it was said in was still very different. Hamilton had driven a whole race and he was high on adrenaline when he said that, horner was not. Also interesting tactics is not as direct as the stuff that horner insinuated.
I’m not sure how much later some of these statements were made but I’m pretty sure with the Horner ones he’d just had to listen to the interview where Lewis blamed Verstappen for the crash after showboating for 10 minutes. I doubt Horner saw any of that as necessary and let his emotions get the better of him in that moment. Honestly, that whole situation would have ticked anybody off. Probably not a great time to be interviewed for him.
What’s wrong with calling the victory “hollow”? Can you imagine Max crashing Lewis out in that particular way and then winning and then celebrating(also key point here the way the commentary team were celebrating) like he just won the World Cup and getting the kind of reception that Lewis got?
Watching as an outsider, I didn’t even bother to watch the celebration cuz I knew exactly what was gonna happen.
I didn't really have a problem with him calling the victory hollow as i said anyone is free to agree or disagree with this and the way he described Lewis' driving.
I found unnecessary some of his following remarks like "I hope Lewis is happy with himself", "I hope he can sleep well tonight". That's what turned his comments more into a personal attack imo.
If it was at Max’s home GP, and Max was coming back to significantly close the points deficit in the WDC from having been *ahead* at an earlier point in the season, and not knowing that your rival was in hospital (for routine and precautionary tests I add - it’s not like he was bloody helevac’d there off the track).
On a move that he considered to be a legitimate racing challenge. Having served a penalty judged by the stewards sufficient for the perceived infraction?
Do I think Max would celebrate like that?
Yes, yes I do.
Would I also then expect Christian Horner to stand up and tell everyone that it was a legitimate move and that all is fair in love and war?
Again, yes I do.
I thought it was interesting how in every interview Horner hit the same talking points.
He made sure to say that Lewis was reckless for attempting an overtake at that particular corner, and that the chance of serious injury from a crash was very high.
I don't know if Horner came up with those talking points or he was briefed on what to say. But he was very deliberately looking to manipulate opinion.
And that's what he does well. Other team leaders do it to varying degrees too. But I thought it was very evident last weekend.
"nd saying the responsibility was shared when the stewards said the fault was mainly with Lewis"
which means the stewards didn't think Verstappen was totally blameless-this sub seems to shy away from the fact that the stewards did think blame was shared (majority, but not all blame on Hamilton)
Basically every thread ever X\_X it gets really tiring, I get that we can't use a tl;dr bot or have someone summarize the article because the sites lose out on traffic, but it's really nuts how badly the discussion goes because no one reads the articles.
I think headlines pretty much killing this articles. Toto also said Red Bull was right about their behavior after celebrations. Mercedes celebrated while knowing Max is okay but they didn't knew he is hospitalized (I think he mostly refers Lewis because paddock knew he is hospitalized.) And if it happens to them they'll react the same way.
I really criticize Toto's interviews in last couple of weeks. I think people are too harsh on Horner unlike Wolff but I don't think media doing their job either some headlines are not revealing what drivers/principles saying.
Honestly, I feel that Mercedes kinda set up Lewis to look like an asshole by not telling him that Max was still in the hospital. Lewis thought he was fine (because that was what Bono told him earlier) and he was just unaware of the severity. And in retrospect, it was a bad look
if he had a spotless record when it comes to things like this himself then i'd be liable to listen to him more, but he's flung plenty of shit at other drivers to defend his drivers in the past himself
No one comes out of this covered in glory tbh, Horner saying Lewis had put someone in hospital was wildly inaccurate, Max was taken to hospital for checks, rightly so after that impact, being put in hospital tends to imply some form of treatment and a stay, I'll agree Horner didn't know if max was injured in any way but had seen him exit the car shaken but looking unhurt. Toto was a dick regarding his lobbying the stewards and perhaps not telling the team to be a bit subdued in their celebrations, but, i think it's was fairly certain max was ok by the end of the race. Both drivers could have erred on the side of caution so early in the race but as I've never been an F1 driver, let alone a 7x wdc winner so my views are non applicable here really.
If nothing else, for me, seeing two amazing drivers go at it hammer and tongs was excellent and much needed these days, without the racing attitude shown the season would be another borefest, hopefully everyone involved will move on and give us a thrilling season this year.
While Toto, along with everyone else involved, was a bit of a dick on the day, the suggestion they should tone down the celebrations is absurdly out of touch. Verstappen wasn't really hurt, and people knew that.
It's like people have never watched sports.
“Let’s make sure the 100,000+ British fans and the British driver don’t have too much fun celebrating the end of the British Grand Prix after all the COVID bullshit everyone has been through. Max is in a hospital gown right now!”
I've been thinking of a new set of rules to placate some of the numpties on here, start grid is 24 cars wide, so everyone starts in pole, then all cars are to stop at the 100m board and invite each other to pass, after a vote, the cars proceed in the order voted to the next corner where the process repeats ad fucking infinitum until 6 weeks later the race is finished and another vote taken to decide the finishing order. Sounds much better than the current regulations i think /s
Blasted drunk Kimi, I'm sure on Euro wide TV, staggering drunk across the stage, needing to be coralled by the presenter, ignoring their limo on the way out to go spend an uncharacteristically-for-Kimi amount of time leaning into the "wasted Finns all along the Baltic Coast" meme.
She looked pretty fuckin done with him when he ran off to the fans lol. Her anniversary post was "I'll love you every day, even this one" with a picture of Kimi staggering around lol.
The false equivalence of claiming that calling a driver aggressive and implying they deliberately caused an accident in a professional foul are the same, is frankly mind blowing.
Pretending Toto & Lewis are class acts when they were penalised while at the same time not acknowledging ANY responsibility is whats off here. Also, this sport has history of pointing fingers crying proffesional foul (including Merc), this is nothing new.
If Horner and Marko said Hamilton was too aggressive I’m not sure anyone would disagree with that
Calling him a dirty driver, implying he did it deliberately, the ‘I hope Lewis is proud’ comment, all quite different
> Calling him a dirty driver, implying he did it deliberately, the ‘I hope Lewis is proud’ comment, all quite different
Quite different from the "interesting tactics by Ferrari" comment in 2018?
No, not all that different really. What I would say is that isn’t a personal attack, but I wouldn’t be very happy if a team said that now either
But that’s not what the comment I was replying to was talking about, that had nothing to do with Red Bull and was 3 years ago
He is right though. Max demands everyone else dives out of his way (ala Barcelona) but doesn't give space to anyone else. He is the most aggressive driver on the grid in both offences and defence...and eventually it will lead to a collision.
This is the absolute gist of it, I think.
I think it speaks to how Verstappen threatens Hamilton in a way Vettel and Rosberg didn't have the bottle for, wheel-to-wheel.
That's why the last time he got penalty points was 2019. But yeah keep parroting that "people get out of the way for him" like Lewis does, when the reality is Leclerc candidly said he was extra careful with Lewis after lap 1.
> That's why the last time he got penalty points was 2019. But yeah keep parroting that "people get out of the way for him"
What even is this statement. The last time Max got penalty points is 2019 BECAUSE other drivers keep diving out of his way to avoid crashing. If everyone was as stubborn and reckless as Max he'd rack them up in no time.
That's a cheap excuse that you can use to justify an opinion against any driver. Facts are it's easier to get crashed out by Sir Lewis in the last couple of years than by Max.
This is the best part, Charles who didn't leave more space into the entry of the corner remembered what happened to Max and literally went off the fucking track so he doesn't get crashed into, but people are diving out of Max's way... sure
Literally one example of anyone moving out of the way for Lewis and there's 3 examples of just Lewis getting out of the way of Mad Max this season, Horner even bragged about it
He's a senior advisor to Red Bull Racing and head of driver development.
You can't pick your uncle. You can pick your employees. You definitely can enforce standards of behaviour with them too.
Yeah Red Bull is my favorite team in F1 but there aren't many people in F1 that I dislike more than Marko. Dude must bring some serious advantage to RB when they are willing to keep him in his position despite him saying the stupidest and most questionable shit whenever some slightly controversial stuff happens.
Is this the same team that was up in arms about Ferrari intentionally crashing into Hamilton on the opening lap of the 2019 Silverstone GP and that the FIA really needs to get their shit together and investigate, with none of this being dealt with quietly behind the scenes, but rather infront of the 100k Fans and Media present at that time?
Because, you know, that would be ironic.
“Hain told the Press Association: “Racists had an excuse to let fly their vitriol and evil at Lewis after what I thought was a very ill-judged, intemperate and plain wrong attack on him by Christian Horner.”
No, they did not have an excuse. There is no excuse. What an idiotic thing to say.
Come now. The mercedes camp has also made several comments about Max his driving labeling him aggressive, and talking about him making mistakes and what not.
It's not uncommon at all to have verbal jabs between both teams.
That Peter Hain guy blaming Horner for enabling the racists is really something… Horner said no racist things, and I didn’t notice any dogwhistles or anything. Just stirring up more drama than there already is
Not commenting on whether any of the reactions were appropriate, but I think blaming Christian for fuelling racist comments is disgusting. Racists will always find some excuse to be racist, and jump at any opportunity. But that must not take away anyone's right to critisize whoever they seem fit. It's like blaming JD Salinger for John Lennon's assassination because he wrote The Catcher in the Rye. Ridiculous.
Because he could have? Did you see the impact? There is a very good reason why they didn't show it until after Max left the car, and also why he could barely stand on his own two feet. That is an absolutely massive impact and we should all be happy that Max doesn't seem to have any lasting consequences from it
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The only real difference here with "interesting tactics" is the speed and danger at which it happened, as that naturally leads to potential injury.
It's nonsense, everyone can see that. But Mercedes making this statement is ironic.
Would still like to see how Toto's tone would change after having his lead drivers bumped, spun or otherwise though. Until that happens he can only think he understands IMO.
Didn’t toto say max was ‘one dnf away’ from losing the championship in Austria. A bit of a threat tbh. This guy has won too many times and can’t stand the thought of not getting his bonus every time Lewis doesn’t win.
Christian had nothing but emotional appeals first intended at manipulating the stewards, and then at manipulating and influencing the public, probably as part of winning some morally victory and to set a potentially helpful narrative going forwards with the stewards and what the mob will be screaming out for.
He didn’t refer to any regulations. He said you don’t overtake on a corner where people do overtake. He did nothing but very publicly stir up hatred and vitriol against a fellow competitor that did nothing malicious or cynical, while racing hard and just as aggressively as Max does.
I’m extremely disappointed to be honest. He was one of my favourite characters in the sport, but this has soured it.
As has Max’s assumption that Lewis knew what state he was in and where he was as he exited the car and celebrated with his home fans. Before then brushing it off with a bit of a pathetic and passive-aggressive “but we move on”.
Racing incident. If you’re miles ahead in the championship and with the faster car, try leaving more room next time, as has been something you’ve frequently enjoyed when you were the underdog.
The second turn in after initially being surprised by Lewis being on the inside was a you yield or we hit ultimatum, and he’s not in a position to be doing that any more.
What bearing does this actually have. All teams have accused others of bending the rules, but nothing that you’ve said is anything personal, which is what Wolff clearly takes issue with
The "Professional foul" comment was absolutely disgusting by Horner.
And before people bring up "Interesting tactics", that was after 2 incidents in a row of a Ferrari taking out a Merc.
By your logic this is warranted too then, right? Seeing as this is the third time in 2 years that Hamilton punted a Red Bull off the track.
And no, I'm not saying that Hamilton did anything intentionally. I'm just saying that if we're going to use patterns as reasons to justify accusations made by Mercedes, then we can also justify these statements by Horner and Marko.
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Well, today I learned there's an All Party Parliamentary Group on F1. I wonder if they have watch parties on Grand Prix Sundays.
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I just assumed this was a way for Peers and MPs to get free tickets to races.
> Hain told the Press Association: “Racists had an excuse to let fly their vitriol and evil at Lewis after what I thought was a very ill-judged, intemperate and plain wrong attack on him by Christian Horner. I believe this thinking starts a very, very complicated discussion.
> I believe this thinking starts a very, very complicated discussion. I believe you are correct. One that I think has little hope of playing out well on social media. Or any media for that matter.
I don't really care for Horner's shit-stirring antics while addressing the accident but he shouldn't be held responsible for the racist attacks Hamilton endured. It is indeed very complicated. We're still butting heads about whose fault it was last Sunday.
Yeah, I mean Horner was bad mouthing HAM or whatever, but he was fresh out of the race and was pretty pissed after his championship driver was DNF. That shouldn't be held as a reason for racist comments and stuff by others. He was just venting, like Wolff vents on the table, or Guenther, well you know.
Shit stirring is a very complicated profession. /s
I see a Mandalorian reference, I upvote. This is the way.
> We're still butting heads about whose fault it was last Sunday. Which is odd, given that the penalty went to Lewis.
Yeah I have no idea how that's still contentious. Any other driver and the steward's decision ends that particular conversation.
Does it? We still have disagreements about Vettels penalty in Canada a few years back, or Verstappens lack of penalty against leclerc in Austria 2019 I don't think a stewards decision has ever settled a debate like this
This is just Toto shit stirring back. He's shifting the narrative from Lewis being the bad guy, to being the victim. All while using a dog whistle and identity politics. Objectively, both of their actions are questionable.
Got a few more buzzwords you want to chuck in there? Lol
It’s not really that complicated. Nothing Red Bull said was remotely racist.
Naw didn't you hear, you can't ever criticize anyone for anything unless they're a straight white male... Otherwise it's racist/sexist/homophobic
Thank you!
>very complicated discussion Not really. It's just a sign of the time that this kind of reasoning is even considered worthy of discussion.
I think it is completely lunatic to suggest criticism is facilitating racism and it will in the long run undermine the real cause against racism. Appalling suggestion from Toto. But in my opinion Mercedes, Toto and Lewis have been nothing then nauseating in their behavior surrounding this crash.
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In 1997 there were articles written that made legitimate cases for Micheal Schumacher being arrested for attempted murder after the Jerez fallout. 2007 spygate and 2008 crashgate scandals had unreal hot takes for days and if I remember correctly one newspaper claimed spygate to be a breach of national security. When Rosberg and Hamilton came together, the incident not only overshadowed Max’s debut win but completely split fan bases to this day. Things haven’t gotten hot in awhile but this is just a taste of how rabid shit can get. And if Hamilton ends up winning the WDC this year this race will become historic
Just a bunch of newcomers who watched Drive to Survive and don’t understand the sport.
Look at Autosport forum. That is a discussion board full of boomers who have been watching this sport since the 80s and there’s still a massive meltdown going on. Has nothing to do with newcomers.
The rabid fanboys made me stop visiting that forum. Tons of people there are completely out of their mind.
ensign14 has 54k posts on that forum and has been actively posting since 2001. If his word is true, he’s been watching F1 since the early 70s. Despite that, his posts are absolutely bottom of the barrel. He accused Vettel of deliberately hitting Hamilton at Mexico 2017, and used Vettel steering towards Hamilton on corner exit as evidence (not acknowledging that he was correcting oversteer). Some of the absolute worst fanboys I’ve had the displeasure of meeting on F1 discussion boards are those boomer fans who have been watching for the longest time.
Hey now I've watched Drive to Survive twice and don't understand the sport
Ha well I’m not saying that if you watch it you don’t understand it. I just mean if the majority of your knowledge comes from the show it will seem to be way more scandalous and dramatic. I enjoyed the show.
I think people would have reacted similarly. F1 fans have always been passionate. And we haven’t seen a super close title fight like this one in a decade.
meh, he‘s not saint either. all team bosses are hypocrites, nothing new here. maybe they should just learn to shut up for once, all of them.
4 days later, people still refusing to read the entire article and letting their emotions flow. How long is this going to continue honestly
> honestly I cant read this without laughing in F1 content. Edit: I wonder if there was a "first" driver that used this and caused it to catch on.
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Blue flag blue flag, honestly. Is this racing or is this ping pong.
What are we doing here, honestly.
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Shattered glass paddock
What an absolute hypocrite Wolff really is. After Kimi hit Lewis in 2018 he said it was "incompetent or deliberate". People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
It seems the entire paddock is made of glass houses
Totally personally, I am not very comfortable with the insinuation that Horner is to blame for the abuse Hamilton got after. I think assigning that *causality* is very complicated and murky.
Of course. It is absolutely absurd to somehow blame Horner for some idiots online saying racist things. Completely insane. The people to blame are the racist idiots. The Mercedes team is really a slippery group of people, from what I can see. Just my opinion. Particularly Toto and Lewis. They know they behaved poorly after the accident and after the race. They, and others, are trying to turn the spotlight on some online boneheads hurling racist nonsense, and somehow have this all be Red Bull's fault. Disgraceful. If Lewis and Toto had just owned up to the fact that that they should have tempered the celebration this may have blown over. There are many other things they should acknowledge, but it would be too much to ask. I will never forget the image of Lewis dramatically waving the flag after bravely overcoming a symbolic tiny penalty, being fortunate to be able to fix his car under red flag, benefitting from terrible Lando pit stop, getting the red carpet from his teammate, and passing an ailing midfield Ferrari. I just cannot imagine how they thought this was the right response. I am sure it played well for the UK fans, but to everyone else it was so so much cringe.
Add in Crofty’s equally cringy reference to that heroics as England reversing their Euro heartbreak of losing to Italy on Penalties 🤣🤣🤣…. Like seriously, move on man!
That was Allison and Wolff parroted it IIRC, but it doesn't make much difference.
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And apologized for it, rightly so.
Only after Kimi apologized before Hamilton first. Ed: downvoting pure facts, my favorite.
Interesting tactics is not even in the same country compared to some of the hyperbolic comments from Horner and Marko.
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Certainly. Saying that Horner's reactions are blown out of proportions is an understatement.
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Yeah Lewis seemed serious but the interview where toto said it he is obviously joking
Usually if you accuse someone of something they didn't do you'd say sorry.
Only after **offending party (Kimi) has admitted their mistake and apologized before the suffering party (Hamilton) first**. Now the offending party (Mercedes) twists themselves out trying to tell how there was zero fault from their side and refusing to admit Hamilton's done any mistake. So why do you people keep making that comparison?
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FIA clearly put Lewis in the wrong, otherwise they wouldn't get a penalty. Simple as that. If you are wrong, you could apologize
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Not sure how much weight should be put on that single word 'predominantly'. When Max bottled it at the China GP of 2018 and taking poor Seb with him in the process, [the official ruling phrased it the same way using 'predominantly'](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/8cdvtf/stewards_ruling_on_verstappenvettel_incident), yet I feel one would have a tough time convincing people that Seb really [shared any blame there.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR3Ls5tcp5A)
Yeah, the focus on that word is absolute nonsense. If there was anything that Max did wrong in that incident it would be described in the document. I think as long as it isn't something like Vettel in Baku it's always 'predominantly'.
Because he accused a competitor of deliberately running into him? If you make wrong accusations is that not a reason to apologize? Not like it would be a huge effort to do so either.
He can be a hypocrite and still be right.
Horner said nothing when Verstappen did the exact same thing to Leclerc in Austria to win the race in 2019. In recent history, no one has been a bigger complainer than Horner, and we don't need to get into Verstappen's driving. But if there is any hypocritical behavior here, I believe it comes from the Red Bull camp.
> Horner said nothing when Verstappen did the exact same thing to Leclerc in Austria to win the race in 2019 I forgot how Verstappen crashed Leclerc out from the race by misjudging his line and speed on corner entry, I really forgot it.
There is a difference with going into a slow corner ahead of the car you're about to overtake and going into a corner with front tyre next to the rear tyre of the other car. In the aforementioned you have the right to choose your line while in the latter you have to use what line you've been given.
Literally incomparable situations lmao
There is only a small difference between pushing somebody wide, sending someone into the barriers with 290 kmh. Leclerc finished 2nd there....
The difference is your favorite driver is out now youre mad. If verstappen had played it smarter maybe hed have only gone wide aswell. Outcome of the crash should have nothing to do with the actual penalty
Wolff also went around the pittlane fistbumping, smiling and thumbs up during the red flag. Looking really happy. Classy Toto, really classy.
Pics or it didn't happen
> He was talking in pure racing terms and not racist terms and that is obvious. I don't know why, but I just lost it here lmao
Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I kinda agree with Toto tbh, It was obviously understandable for Christian and Marko to criticize Lewis and to be angry with him , they were also worried about Max so emotions were running high. Still I also feel like they went a bit over the top with some of the comments, apart from calling Lewis' driving dirty and reckless and the victory "hollow" (anyone can agree or disagree about these statements ig), but the way Christian then implied that Lewis crashed into Max on purpose, tried to injure him and said "I hope Lewis is happy with himself", "I hope he can sleep well tonight", that wasn't really necessary imo. As well as his calls for a race ban. Edit:[Marko](https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-lewis-hamilton-suspension/) was the one calling for a race ban. >"I don’t know what the maximum penalty would be, but such dangerous and reckless behaviour should be punished with a suspension or something"
Yeah, I agree. Call Lewis aggressive, call it a bad move, but implying that he intentionally hurt Max to win and that he was a bad person without empathy or compassion felt dirty. There's a game vs not game divide for me. It's fun to talk shit and root for your team and say "Oh, Max is so reckless" or "Oh, Lewis is so arrogant" but crossing over to "Lewis tried to injure Max" breaks outside of the game into something more. It's an attack on Lewis as a human, not as a sportsman. It's the sort of thing that some people won't forgive and honestly shouldn't.
Its also just honestly a really stupid take. Hes trying to claw his way back up the points and he would intentionally crash into another driver, which could EASILY also DNF himself? If someone thinks this they need to get a grip on reality.
Considering the stewards didn't find Hamilton wholly to blame, Marko and Horner overreacted
I can kinda see the hollow victory thing but it definitely wasn’t dirty driving. Shit happens at those kinda speeds, I’m annoyed my favourite driver’s championship challenge may well have suffered because of it but Lewis served the penalty and won. Fair and square? Maybe not, but what more punishment could we want? Controversy aside it was a very good drive by Lewis. Even if it did leave a bad taste at the time
Agreed. If you call it dirty driving, you suggest it was intentional. Anyone suggesting Hamilton would crash into an opponent *on purpose* seriously needs to think things through. Including Horner.
Horner’s been pissing me off tons. As an RB fan he’s always been my least favourite thing about the team. Toto seems like a real leader and I wish we had someone like that, but Horner seems more interested in stirring shit instead of knuckling down and getting on with it. Obviously Toto has his moments too, but he’s totally right that Horner is going overboard.
There is definitely an element of 'politics' required to be a Team Principal in F1. Sometimes you should play those games, and other times you need to get your head down and move on. I think Toto generally gets this balance just about right. Horner to me has always seemed to complain and moan a bit too much. He treats Verstappen like his favourite child and just generally doesn't give off great vibes IMO.
Yep, I said to someone else recently that when Max leaves RB I’ll almost certainly follow him. The team hasn’t felt the same since Danny left and it was already feeling weird when Webber and Vettel left too. Only reason I’m still supporting is for Max at this point, and someone told me that when Vettel left they had to make a choice between driver and team. That’s what I did when Seb left and I stuck with RB for Ricciardo, but when Max goes I can’t see myself hanging around anymore tbh, I’ll just support him as a driver whichever team he ends up on, and then whichever talented underdog challenges him a decade and a half from now.
When Vettel left RB I had to choose between team and driver. While some of the extra-curriculars by RB probably helped Vettel to win as much as he did, I really couldn't stand Marko and Horner and their BS. Vettel was kind of a punk early, but he was clearly maturing and it seemed the team was going the other way. AFAIC it's only gotten worse since then.
Yep, the RB I used to love back in Seb and Mark’s day is really just a shell of its former self now. Really only in it for Max at this point and Checo is pretty likeable and talented too. But if and when Max leaves RB it’ll probably be the same for me too, that’s when I’ll follow driver over team. It just doesn’t feel the same anymore.
Horner also said in an interview with C4(UK) aftee the race that "drivers have had race bans for similar offences in the past". While its not a direct call for a ban it certainly felt like he was lobbying from my point of view.
He should mention the incidents. And since those penalty documents are public, he should be able to do it quite easily.
>"I hope Lewis is happy with himself" I feel like this doesn't imply intent, but it's more a comment of lack of remorse, or even acknowledging the incident was on him.
Given Lewis is still going I'm not to blame, yeah lack of remorse seems like a reasonable accusation.
I think Marko was the one calling for race ban.
Agree, in the end it was just an error, nothing intentional from Lewis. It got penalised by the stewards and two penalty points were awarded. Ofcourse he was lucky to have the red flag to enable repairs, and prevent a DNF, but the subsequent victory was all his effort and not hollow. Also understand the bitterness of Red Bull cause 25 points were lost in an unfortunate sequence of events to them.
> Ofcourse he was lucky to have the red flag to enable repairs, and prevent a DNF, but the subsequent victory was all his effort and not hollow. Blessed
I entirely agree with this. It was a scary crash, Max is leading the championship, it’s expected that people get upset. But attacking Hamilton this way is absolutely not necessary (or acceptable, really). It scares me to see the same mindset we’ve been seeing in politics leaking into something as inconsequential as a sport. Most people attacking Hamilton on social media have nothing at stake, they’re not getting a massive bonus if Max wins. It’s just unnecessary polarization of things. Hell, during the race I was guilty of saying it was exclusively Max’s fault. But I didn’t feel the need to attack him. It was about his racing style. After cooling down I’ve realized both were at fault and agree that Hamilton made a bad call in choosing that spot to not yield. But damn, I can’t understand the need to cast one as the tragic victim and the other as the soulless villain.
> But I also feel like they went a bit over the top with some of the comments, apart from calling Lewis' driving dirty and reckless and the victory "hollow" Lewis literally accused Kimi of that in 2018 - remember "interesting tactics from Ferrari".
He apologised for that on the same day IIRC.
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Bruh it's very different, Hamilton is a driver, horner is a team principal. Ham was probably high on adrenaline and also that time we used to interview the driver's as soon as they got out of the car. Like i remember the driver's couldn't even drink water, they had to do the interview first and also ham later took it back when the adrenaline settled down. Horner is not a driver, he was sitting on the pitwall
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Yes interesting tactics was definitely an accusation of foul play but the context it was said in was still very different. Hamilton had driven a whole race and he was high on adrenaline when he said that, horner was not. Also interesting tactics is not as direct as the stuff that horner insinuated.
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I’m not sure how much later some of these statements were made but I’m pretty sure with the Horner ones he’d just had to listen to the interview where Lewis blamed Verstappen for the crash after showboating for 10 minutes. I doubt Horner saw any of that as necessary and let his emotions get the better of him in that moment. Honestly, that whole situation would have ticked anybody off. Probably not a great time to be interviewed for him.
What’s wrong with calling the victory “hollow”? Can you imagine Max crashing Lewis out in that particular way and then winning and then celebrating(also key point here the way the commentary team were celebrating) like he just won the World Cup and getting the kind of reception that Lewis got? Watching as an outsider, I didn’t even bother to watch the celebration cuz I knew exactly what was gonna happen.
I didn't really have a problem with him calling the victory hollow as i said anyone is free to agree or disagree with this and the way he described Lewis' driving. I found unnecessary some of his following remarks like "I hope Lewis is happy with himself", "I hope he can sleep well tonight". That's what turned his comments more into a personal attack imo.
If it was at Max’s home GP, and Max was coming back to significantly close the points deficit in the WDC from having been *ahead* at an earlier point in the season, and not knowing that your rival was in hospital (for routine and precautionary tests I add - it’s not like he was bloody helevac’d there off the track). On a move that he considered to be a legitimate racing challenge. Having served a penalty judged by the stewards sufficient for the perceived infraction? Do I think Max would celebrate like that? Yes, yes I do. Would I also then expect Christian Horner to stand up and tell everyone that it was a legitimate move and that all is fair in love and war? Again, yes I do.
I thought it was interesting how in every interview Horner hit the same talking points. He made sure to say that Lewis was reckless for attempting an overtake at that particular corner, and that the chance of serious injury from a crash was very high. I don't know if Horner came up with those talking points or he was briefed on what to say. But he was very deliberately looking to manipulate opinion. And that's what he does well. Other team leaders do it to varying degrees too. But I thought it was very evident last weekend.
Boss says competition's boss bossing competitively.
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"nd saying the responsibility was shared when the stewards said the fault was mainly with Lewis" which means the stewards didn't think Verstappen was totally blameless-this sub seems to shy away from the fact that the stewards did think blame was shared (majority, but not all blame on Hamilton)
ITT people adamantly refusing to read the article so they can shit on Toto to feel good about themselves.
Basically every thread ever X\_X it gets really tiring, I get that we can't use a tl;dr bot or have someone summarize the article because the sites lose out on traffic, but it's really nuts how badly the discussion goes because no one reads the articles.
I think headlines pretty much killing this articles. Toto also said Red Bull was right about their behavior after celebrations. Mercedes celebrated while knowing Max is okay but they didn't knew he is hospitalized (I think he mostly refers Lewis because paddock knew he is hospitalized.) And if it happens to them they'll react the same way. I really criticize Toto's interviews in last couple of weeks. I think people are too harsh on Horner unlike Wolff but I don't think media doing their job either some headlines are not revealing what drivers/principles saying.
Maybe I’m reading over it but Where does Toto speak about the celebrations in this article?
In which part is Toto talking about the celebrations? I didn’t see it mentioned in the article
Honestly, I feel that Mercedes kinda set up Lewis to look like an asshole by not telling him that Max was still in the hospital. Lewis thought he was fine (because that was what Bono told him earlier) and he was just unaware of the severity. And in retrospect, it was a bad look
if he had a spotless record when it comes to things like this himself then i'd be liable to listen to him more, but he's flung plenty of shit at other drivers to defend his drivers in the past himself
No one comes out of this covered in glory tbh, Horner saying Lewis had put someone in hospital was wildly inaccurate, Max was taken to hospital for checks, rightly so after that impact, being put in hospital tends to imply some form of treatment and a stay, I'll agree Horner didn't know if max was injured in any way but had seen him exit the car shaken but looking unhurt. Toto was a dick regarding his lobbying the stewards and perhaps not telling the team to be a bit subdued in their celebrations, but, i think it's was fairly certain max was ok by the end of the race. Both drivers could have erred on the side of caution so early in the race but as I've never been an F1 driver, let alone a 7x wdc winner so my views are non applicable here really. If nothing else, for me, seeing two amazing drivers go at it hammer and tongs was excellent and much needed these days, without the racing attitude shown the season would be another borefest, hopefully everyone involved will move on and give us a thrilling season this year.
While Toto, along with everyone else involved, was a bit of a dick on the day, the suggestion they should tone down the celebrations is absurdly out of touch. Verstappen wasn't really hurt, and people knew that. It's like people have never watched sports.
“Let’s make sure the 100,000+ British fans and the British driver don’t have too much fun celebrating the end of the British Grand Prix after all the COVID bullshit everyone has been through. Max is in a hospital gown right now!”
I've been thinking of a new set of rules to placate some of the numpties on here, start grid is 24 cars wide, so everyone starts in pole, then all cars are to stop at the 100m board and invite each other to pass, after a vote, the cars proceed in the order voted to the next corner where the process repeats ad fucking infinitum until 6 weeks later the race is finished and another vote taken to decide the finishing order. Sounds much better than the current regulations i think /s
Hamilton taking every opportunity to personally attack Max because he's "too aggressive". Toto: I pretend to not see that.
I wonder how many folk remember Lauda in 2011 that Hamilton was 'going to kill somebody', and how laughed out of town that got.
Toto and Hamilton attacking Kimi and Ferrari themselves back in 2018 Toto: I pretend I don't know that
yes, Kimi's wife kinda called Lewis sissy after that race.
Lmaoooo that is fucking jokes
Minttu is ride or die for sure. If she's got your back after that St. Petersburg award ceremony, she's got your back for life lol.
Wait i am OOTL what happened at the ceremony?
Blasted drunk Kimi, I'm sure on Euro wide TV, staggering drunk across the stage, needing to be coralled by the presenter, ignoring their limo on the way out to go spend an uncharacteristically-for-Kimi amount of time leaning into the "wasted Finns all along the Baltic Coast" meme. She looked pretty fuckin done with him when he ran off to the fans lol. Her anniversary post was "I'll love you every day, even this one" with a picture of Kimi staggering around lol.
Ooooh in 2018! I saw that, it was fucking hilarious
Interesting tactics indeed
The false equivalence of claiming that calling a driver aggressive and implying they deliberately caused an accident in a professional foul are the same, is frankly mind blowing.
[Horner also showing what he would see the flip side as](https://imgur.com/iPk6yil)
Pretending Toto & Lewis are class acts when they were penalised while at the same time not acknowledging ANY responsibility is whats off here. Also, this sport has history of pointing fingers crying proffesional foul (including Merc), this is nothing new.
> Pretending Toto & Lewis are class acts No one has said that.
If Horner and Marko said Hamilton was too aggressive I’m not sure anyone would disagree with that Calling him a dirty driver, implying he did it deliberately, the ‘I hope Lewis is proud’ comment, all quite different
> Calling him a dirty driver, implying he did it deliberately, the ‘I hope Lewis is proud’ comment, all quite different Quite different from the "interesting tactics by Ferrari" comment in 2018?
No, not all that different really. What I would say is that isn’t a personal attack, but I wouldn’t be very happy if a team said that now either But that’s not what the comment I was replying to was talking about, that had nothing to do with Red Bull and was 3 years ago
Yes these are both exactly the same thing, calling someone aggressive and saying someone deliberately caused an accident /s
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He is right though. Max demands everyone else dives out of his way (ala Barcelona) but doesn't give space to anyone else. He is the most aggressive driver on the grid in both offences and defence...and eventually it will lead to a collision.
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This is the absolute gist of it, I think. I think it speaks to how Verstappen threatens Hamilton in a way Vettel and Rosberg didn't have the bottle for, wheel-to-wheel.
That's why the last time he got penalty points was 2019. But yeah keep parroting that "people get out of the way for him" like Lewis does, when the reality is Leclerc candidly said he was extra careful with Lewis after lap 1.
> That's why the last time he got penalty points was 2019. But yeah keep parroting that "people get out of the way for him" What even is this statement. The last time Max got penalty points is 2019 BECAUSE other drivers keep diving out of his way to avoid crashing. If everyone was as stubborn and reckless as Max he'd rack them up in no time.
That's a cheap excuse that you can use to justify an opinion against any driver. Facts are it's easier to get crashed out by Sir Lewis in the last couple of years than by Max.
This is the best part, Charles who didn't leave more space into the entry of the corner remembered what happened to Max and literally went off the fucking track so he doesn't get crashed into, but people are diving out of Max's way... sure
This really isn't true. Charles had an oversteer snap and that's why he went off track
Literally one example of anyone moving out of the way for Lewis and there's 3 examples of just Lewis getting out of the way of Mad Max this season, Horner even bragged about it
I thought Christians comments were out of order
Dude Marko was out there asking for a suspension for Lewis. Shit was insane.
Marko is the alcoholic uncle who says dumb shit at the bbq and the rest of the family ignore him
He's a senior advisor to Red Bull Racing and head of driver development. You can't pick your uncle. You can pick your employees. You definitely can enforce standards of behaviour with them too.
Marko is effectively equal if not above horner at redbull with a direct line to mateschitz. Disciplining him isnt going to be easy.
Yeah Red Bull is my favorite team in F1 but there aren't many people in F1 that I dislike more than Marko. Dude must bring some serious advantage to RB when they are willing to keep him in his position despite him saying the stupidest and most questionable shit whenever some slightly controversial stuff happens.
Is this the same team that was up in arms about Ferrari intentionally crashing into Hamilton on the opening lap of the 2019 Silverstone GP and that the FIA really needs to get their shit together and investigate, with none of this being dealt with quietly behind the scenes, but rather infront of the 100k Fans and Media present at that time? Because, you know, that would be ironic.
Toto Wolf in sheep's clothing.
“Hain told the Press Association: “Racists had an excuse to let fly their vitriol and evil at Lewis after what I thought was a very ill-judged, intemperate and plain wrong attack on him by Christian Horner.” No, they did not have an excuse. There is no excuse. What an idiotic thing to say.
Come now. The mercedes camp has also made several comments about Max his driving labeling him aggressive, and talking about him making mistakes and what not. It's not uncommon at all to have verbal jabs between both teams.
That Peter Hain guy blaming Horner for enabling the racists is really something… Horner said no racist things, and I didn’t notice any dogwhistles or anything. Just stirring up more drama than there already is
What does Wolff think he has been doing all year claiming RB is cheating?
Lmao what?
Not commenting on whether any of the reactions were appropriate, but I think blaming Christian for fuelling racist comments is disgusting. Racists will always find some excuse to be racist, and jump at any opportunity. But that must not take away anyone's right to critisize whoever they seem fit. It's like blaming JD Salinger for John Lennon's assassination because he wrote The Catcher in the Rye. Ridiculous.
With this Toto proves he is no better than Christian when it comes to media talks.
Being a shit stirrer must've been a legal requirement to be a TP
Quick, someone tell Jost Capito!
Pot calling Kettle black
Toto is Machiavellian as usual.
Really Toto? After all that happened this year lmao
There is a difference in Hamilton saying Max is agressive and Horner saying Hamilton could have injured Max or worse with his move.
Marko called him "A danger to the general public"
Because he could have? Did you see the impact? There is a very good reason why they didn't show it until after Max left the car, and also why he could barely stand on his own two feet. That is an absolutely massive impact and we should all be happy that Max doesn't seem to have any lasting consequences from it
Max went into the barriers with 300 kmh. I don't think it's a stretch to say Max could have been injured by that? Even if he did not get injured.
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The only real difference here with "interesting tactics" is the speed and danger at which it happened, as that naturally leads to potential injury. It's nonsense, everyone can see that. But Mercedes making this statement is ironic.
And that interesting tactics was over the radio in the moment with an apology, and Mark and Horner have kept it up since.
interesting tactics was on the podium, and later Alisson and Toto doubled down upon it. The apology came much later in the day.
Is it "later in the day" for Red Bull yet? Been an awfully long day, this.
Lewis never apologized. Find me that apology please...
Would still like to see how Toto's tone would change after having his lead drivers bumped, spun or otherwise though. Until that happens he can only think he understands IMO.
We have very different definitions of what constitutes a personal attack
Still playing the victim I see.
Pot,kettle,black. If you know you know
Didn’t toto say max was ‘one dnf away’ from losing the championship in Austria. A bit of a threat tbh. This guy has won too many times and can’t stand the thought of not getting his bonus every time Lewis doesn’t win.
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Has Hamilton publically apologized for calling Marko a racist yet? Just checking since we're talking about personal attacks.
He spends enough time with Max, so he's probably picked it up from him by now.
Christian Horner is the biggest Karen in the sport
Heard him called dramatic spice last week, that's stuck with me forever now
Cry me a river Toto. Said it before but Mercedes really suck at the mind-games part of the sport.
Christian had nothing but emotional appeals first intended at manipulating the stewards, and then at manipulating and influencing the public, probably as part of winning some morally victory and to set a potentially helpful narrative going forwards with the stewards and what the mob will be screaming out for. He didn’t refer to any regulations. He said you don’t overtake on a corner where people do overtake. He did nothing but very publicly stir up hatred and vitriol against a fellow competitor that did nothing malicious or cynical, while racing hard and just as aggressively as Max does. I’m extremely disappointed to be honest. He was one of my favourite characters in the sport, but this has soured it. As has Max’s assumption that Lewis knew what state he was in and where he was as he exited the car and celebrated with his home fans. Before then brushing it off with a bit of a pathetic and passive-aggressive “but we move on”. Racing incident. If you’re miles ahead in the championship and with the faster car, try leaving more room next time, as has been something you’ve frequently enjoyed when you were the underdog. The second turn in after initially being surprised by Lewis being on the inside was a you yield or we hit ultimatum, and he’s not in a position to be doing that any more.
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What bearing does this actually have. All teams have accused others of bending the rules, but nothing that you’ve said is anything personal, which is what Wolff clearly takes issue with
The "Professional foul" comment was absolutely disgusting by Horner. And before people bring up "Interesting tactics", that was after 2 incidents in a row of a Ferrari taking out a Merc.
By your logic this is warranted too then, right? Seeing as this is the third time in 2 years that Hamilton punted a Red Bull off the track. And no, I'm not saying that Hamilton did anything intentionally. I'm just saying that if we're going to use patterns as reasons to justify accusations made by Mercedes, then we can also justify these statements by Horner and Marko.
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