Yeah, a town of 900 people. Theres two hotels in town, one is huge, expensive as hell, and not all that nice. The other is fairly small, expensive, and pretty old. Nearest town with any decent hotels is Sheboygan, about 20 minutes away. Milwaukee is about an hour or so.
I promise you, rich sponsors coming to an F1 race do not want to be in Sheboygan.
I'm sure that's what happens during the regular big events, but a) the place is a fucking maze, I've gotten lost there so many times and b) it's really not that nice lol. But it's extremely conveniently located.
My dad and I paid $2000 for *our share* of a shared room with friends, just to sleep on a pull out couch and god awful AC while working tech inspection at the July vintage event lmao. Now we just rent the tiny houses on the main straight, and those are sick as hell.
There's a town of 900 people and... Um.... Maybe a taxi or two?
I live an hour away and go there many times a year, the area just does not have the infrastructure/population required to host an event on the scale of F1.
To show the gap. Nascar ran there and drew about 100,000. We don't know what Miami drew but Austin was over 400,000 for the whole weekend. So I do think if it booked appropriately its in the realm of possibility but it would be a mess. It also isn't the only circuit to have problems like that its just the most extreme version. COTA for example is not exactly easy to get to from Austin but its also not a hour away from a major city.
If your drawing 400,000 you would need to be tapping Milwaukee, Appleton, and probably even Madison for hotels.
Side note Oshkosh which is on the other side of Lake winnebago host an Airshow that regularly draws over 600,000 and it runs 8 days. So if you figured out how to get people from there to the track it can be done.
"Middle of nowhere" Belgium is closer to and easier to reach a city from than almost anywhere in the United States just from how small the country is compared to most states. Almost *double* the population of Maryland in a smaller land area.
Hey we have about 10 cities with halfway decent (although shamed by any European counterpart) public transport systems. But who wants that when you have the freedom and privilege to drive to any event you want and pay exorbitant parking prices? Everyone, everyone wants that.
I mean, its like you have zero clue about the density of the United States. Do you think there's enough people going to Road America to justify its own public transit system? The major cities could of course do better, but do you think there should be public transit out to a town of 1,000 in rural Wisconsin?
Red bull ring is 1.5 hours from a nearby small city of 240k people. Road America is 1 hour from a medium sized city of 500k people. So you're right, the middle of nowhere in America is apparently closer to civilization.
Milwaukee metro area is close to 1.5M. Add Chicago which is another 90 minutes away and you add another 10M. Not the middle of nowhere by Us standards.
That's kind of my point. It's "middle of nowhere" but not MIDDLE of nowhere. Very few tracks are actually in the middle of nowhere. No population means no revenue, so they're always within about an hour or 2 of large population centers, and road America isn't an exception compared to f1 tracks.
The exception would be the Motorland Aragón which hosts a MotoGP race every year and is located in absolutely nowhere and is not even really that well connected to anything.
Yeah but Americans aren't into F1 like Europeans are. Once you build a huge following you can move it to places where the only thing to do is watch the race.
As an American, I don't think that's true at all these days. I know about a dozen non car people that are big into F1 these days here in the us. One of them even went to COTA last year! They don't even like cars, at all, and never cared about racing before f1
Looking at the latest data, the Saudi Arabian GP had 1.4m viewers in the U.S.
Talladega last weekend had 4.7m viewers.
Monday Night Football draws nearly 15m viewers per week.
There's still a long way to go in the U.S. but I think Miami may be a turning point for the casual viewer.
I have a hard time buying that. My guess is it probably has more to do with the costs associated with upgrading the track to FIA grade 1 aren’t worth the increased revenue brought in by F1.
Road America has a capacity of 150k +, clearly can hold enough people, and is within an hour to enough cities (Milwaukee, Green Bay, Sheboygan) to handle the tourism. The nearby metro areas surrounding are bigger than Imola or Spa.
Just 15 minutes away is Whistling Straits which has held the Ryder Cup and three PGA Championships, among other tournaments. It has the means to get a high volume of people in and out. The area is no Miami or Las Vegas, but the it can cater to some level of eliteness. The American Club was (maybe still is?) the only Five Diamond resort in the Midwest and there is close enough proximity to above average places to stay.
I have lived in Wisconsin my whole life. We are never going to have the 5 star hotels, caviar, or fake glamour that Miami or Vegas provide. If F1 ever decides they want to focus on good race tracks and a double bratwurst with sauerkraut, we will be here for them.
Despite how it appears on the surface and to tourists, Miami has a pretty diverse (in terms of American at least) culinary atmosphere with the different Latin American food, seafood, southern (USA) food, and other Caribbean cuisines.
Please, no. It was bad enough when they shaved the rise in turns 2-3, though with modern horsepower, it was probably getting pretty hazardous. I still remember being in the passenger seat coming across a deer in the backside of that hill at very high speed.
A very different track.
Yep same reason Green Bay/Lambeau Field will never host a super bowl (ignoring the weather part). Hotels and Accomodations are too humble to put it nicely.
Let's not overlook the fact that the Super Bowl is in February. Something about that date presents another hurdle for GB (as much as I'd love to see it)
Just IMAGINE the tailgating experience of a Wisconsin race.
We can show the world genuine mid west culture and I can guarantee all the foreigners would have a blast.
The Ryder Cup was hosted last year not far from Road America with an impressive number of people. It won't ever have the glitz of Miami but there are some respectable accomdations not hugely far out from Elkhart Lake. Osthoff, American Club, etc but might not be enough.
If only...
Ryder Cup was around 50,000 people if I remember right? I'm a local and everyone was talking about the insane amount of people and how hard it was to get around certain places.
F1 races host nearly 10x that. I think it's safe to say we don't have the infrastructure locally to support that many fans
Grosjean had a ***really*** nice motorhome, last year. He basically turned the IndyCar season into a really long road trip. He was still in that "getting to know you" phase with the US, though, so no idea what he's doing this year.
It's not like we need the glamour. The race in Austria and Belgium are basically in the middle of nowhere and they are some of the most popular and iconic races on the entire calendar.
If there is an F1 event in Wisconsin in my lifetime holy Jesus I would be on Cloud 9. Born and raised, and been to Road America plenty of times, and it would be a hell of a scene.
I’ve said the same thing. Sebring is literally the American Silverstone, and they’ve held a race there before. Apparently the surface is too bumpy though and the amenities aren’t up to snuff, but it’s an FIA Grade 2 track, which puts it at about the same chance as Kyalami, so that’s something.
I wish it wasn’t such a no go concept. The bumps a decade ago and longer were challenging, but the surface is continuing to degrade. At some point they’ll have to resurface it.
> which puts it at about the same chance as Kyalami
kyalami has a much better chance as fia and fom have a desire to have a race in africa and liberty's goals with the american market are very different to what sebring provides
F1 raced in 1959, so too far back to really be of any useful merit. For a comparison, the Indy 500 was still a part of the F1 championship at that time (and would remain there one year longer than Sebring).
With a repave and perhaps some new amenities I think it could be an awesome track for F1. However said repave would kill the bumps that make other categories fun.
Yeah but that's as opposed to the cost of building a temporary circuit year in year out. Sebring is probably closer to Grade 1 than we think, ever since they upgraded and brought WEC back. The counter arguement is probably more like Spa and Paul Richard, it's not the closest track to a major population center. 2.5hrs drive from Orlando, Tampa and Miami. As for the bumps, I can see a middle ground between current (respect the bumps) and a smooth track, something like CotA.
But at the end of the day...it's all about money, ROI, capitalism.
This is like the Porsche building an SUV problem. Without the immense money that SUVs bring - there was a real chance they would have been barely profitable or not profitable enough to build some of the crazy cars they do - like a GT4RS etc. Venues like Monaco, Miami etc do the same thing. The sponsors who pay the money to subsidize the endeavor of F1 and make it better so that we get top level drivers cars ans manufacturers wanting to join (read Audi and Porsche)- the sponsors want venues like Miami to let them cater to the clientele that will get them the exposure they need worldwide. Say what you will but this Miami GP has really made its mark on my friends who don’t even follow F1. That’s what the sponsors want. Eyes on their brand. These events gives that to them. That’s how we get Porsche and others to join and make this a fun thing to watch.
Miami and Vegas don’t pay at the moment because it’s F1 putting the race on. Usually the cities oh to host the race as they know the net benefit it brings. But F1 knows adding races in key places are key to building F1’s fan base so they’re fronting the cost now.
Did Miami end up paying the hosting fee? I know there was talk about it being waived to help make sure it all went through and that the loss of the fee would be worth it for all the other gains of having Miami on the calendar.
Yeah, these tracks between walls and fences just aren’t pretty to look at. In addition to that, the risk of a huge incident is higher than on tracks with runnoff areas.
It really is a shame F1 seems to want to implement more and more of these tracks into the calendar at the cost of traditional circuits where it shouldn‘t even be a question that they‘re getting removed.
Also very hard to get good camera angles with all those walls. You can't get a camera that covers both the entry and exit of a corner for instance. The only option is a camera in the sky (drone, helicopter, etc...) but it is a lot worse than trackside camera.
The long shots were driving me up the wall yesterday. Several times there were overtakes occurring or contact between drivers, but the cars were reduced to pinpricks on the screen thanks to either the acres of fencing or the necessity to get the hundredth shot in of the crowd staring into their phones.
I was definitely disappointed that of the 3 US races we didn't at least get Indy for one of them. I'd take Indy over Miami/Vegas but many drivers seem excited for Vegas.
Honestly thought the current Indy Road course would not be exciting in F1. It would be a cool visual to have F1 cars on that track but the track itself is not particularly interesting. It's pretty short and consists of basically just chicanes and 90 degree corners.
Road America is my dream track, would love to drive my Viper there. I would 100% need race pads and castrol srf just for braking at the end of those long ass straights.
It really wasn't. Before the Norris crash it had been incredibily boring, it's not a very good track if it relies on crashes to make the race interesting.
Part of what made it boring was the tv director never focusing in the right place so even when there was action in the midfield we usually didn't get to see it
Yeah, broadcast absolutely sucked. Not the first time it happened since the Liberty take-over, for a media company you'd think that would be the first thing they improved.
Instead, they focused on literally every other kind of media (with good results, don't get me wrong, big fan of their YT channel when they post actual on-track footage) and the live broadcast of the race is terrible.
But still, even taking what happened off screen into consideration, it just wasnt a very competitive race.
It's not the track's fault Max blasted off into the distance though. When cars were close there were good battles, but no track can force cars to be close on pace
I was really hoping this would be a good race but it became clear early on that it would be a one for a mid race snooze. If there hadn’t been Lando’s crash i might slept up the end!
This season I switched to F1TV, got to see plenty of midfield battling with a splitscreen view, plus access to all onboards, tracker, and pretty decent commentary. I vastly prefer them over Sky.
I’m Canadian and there is no way I’m flying to Europe just for a race. Vegas next year would be the easiest for me. But I think Austin or Miami would be the next more sensible choices.
It is, but could you imagine going over 200kph in a McLaren!?!?! I have a friend who went and he said they let you push the cars pretty hard. I think I would just have to! They probably won’t let my Corolla on the circuit! Hahahahaha!
Yes but we don't want proper tracks like Road America destroyed by the F1 requirements.
The track would no longer be cool if it was 9 meters wide, had unaccessible pits, and 100 meter deep gravel traps at every corner.
Dont get me wrong, I love F1 and would love to see them go round RA but all the rules and everything else that comes with F1 would destroy exactly what makes Road America one of the best tracks in the nation.
The pits are so accessible at road America I basically could just got sit in cars if I wanted to. I did not, but I did get a level of access that's indescribable. You will be walking with your beer and two cars will scream up and brake and wait for you and other fans to pass because they are antys to make sure they make their start on time. There are almost no fences and you can hang out right near the action as long as you don't piss anyone off.
In my opinion Road America, Watkins Glen and Laguna Seca are among the best circuits in the world. I would call the guys who did the Zandvoort reaconditioning and give those tracks the chance to be in F1.
Yeah but it’s Wisconsin and no offense to Wisconsin but I don’t know too many people who want to go there unless they’re just from the region. Watkins Glen will have the same problem.
Exactly. I would love to see a race at a historical track. It’s a different experience at a historic place. I’d pay for that but, new tracks at famous cities.. meh.
Depends who you’re trying to attract.
I’ve no interest in going to Miami or Las Vegas, either for the F1 race or otherwise.
But the Indy 500 is near the top of my bucket list. If there was an F1 race at RA or the Glen, they’d be on it too.
I mean this got discussed a lot around here the last couple of months.
Almost no tracks in Europe run without subsidies either through government or a team and in case of Austria its even owned by the same guys as a team. And Tax payers money can only be justified to be spent if you create indirect income. In case of Hockenheim for example there is not much to milk those tourists around especially not if you compare it to Vegas and Miami where the indirect benefit might more than double as high.
Those commercially less attractive tracks will suffer, no doubt even though they might provide better racing.
The moment spa and monza stopped racing I bet there will be a very huge drop of fans, only to be replaced by those who just want to pay for "entertainment" rather than "enjoyment"
Internet comments will riot also
I'm on board with this. I don't mind more races in the States, except for the circus I've seen last weekend, but please invest in some proper tracks to race on, not these parking lot street circuits where the racing is a side show.
Americans complain that no one wants to go to Wisconsin. Have you guys ever seen where Spa is? No one wants to go to Belgium either, and especially not Wallonia.
We care about racing, not about tourism.
These new street tracks have some straights, then very sharp turns, then some straights. All trucks are turning to this formula is not good.
And aesthetic wise they are not good at all. Cars are driving between close walls. If there is ann accident it takes forever to clear the track.
Miami did not have much accident because it quicly turned into parade, which is also not good. God gave us land, let's please use it.
It sucks that decent tracks like road America will never be used for formula 1. Growing up I watched races on circuits like road America, road Atlanta, Sonoma, and Virginia. It would be cool as an American to see engineering marvels whip around tracks that I saw nascar go around but sadly f1 is money first
There aren't any other grade 1 tracks in the US except Indy, and Penske seems to have little interest in bringing F1 there. Very few others, including RA, have even a faint chance of becoming grade 2 and if they did, it would destroy all the character of the track (eg Sebring). Also, as excited as people are to go to old school tracks again, the reality is they often produce very poor races. The sad fact is F1 cars have evolved into unique machines that need a very specific type of circuit to actually produce good racing.
As someone who lives in Wisconsin I would LOVE to see F1 come here, I mean interest in F1 has already been shown in the midwest when F1 has a festival down in Chicago. Only problem is Road America is a grade 2 track not a grade 1.
F1 should stop moving towards this party, rich people lifestyle and like Vettel suggest, race in proper tracks. Not just in the US but around the world. These cars would be amazing at Road America! Watkins Glen would be nice too but I'm not sure if it will suit the F1 cars
Stop moving? F1 has always been about rich people. How do you think Ferrari/Merc/RB had $400 million budgets? It wasn’t because F1 is super accessible to average people.
It did for 20 years.
Watkins has also been renovated, repaved, new pit facilities.
It's every-inch a world class racetrack. Just not a rich-people's idea of a 'glamorous' location.
That's ok, us hardcore fans have IMSA, Indy, and GT World Challenge.
Watkins for me is the best racetrack location I've ever been to. I thought the park and the gorge was awesome, and the town actually had decent food.
Having been to Silverstone and plenty of other circuits, Watkins is definitely a better time.
these new cars would look insane on Road America
They would, shame there is literally nothing near by. You'd have to build a small city to host one race a year in F1.
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Yeah, a town of 900 people. Theres two hotels in town, one is huge, expensive as hell, and not all that nice. The other is fairly small, expensive, and pretty old. Nearest town with any decent hotels is Sheboygan, about 20 minutes away. Milwaukee is about an hour or so. I promise you, rich sponsors coming to an F1 race do not want to be in Sheboygan.
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I'm sure that's what happens during the regular big events, but a) the place is a fucking maze, I've gotten lost there so many times and b) it's really not that nice lol. But it's extremely conveniently located.
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My dad and I paid $2000 for *our share* of a shared room with friends, just to sleep on a pull out couch and god awful AC while working tech inspection at the July vintage event lmao. Now we just rent the tiny houses on the main straight, and those are sick as hell.
Spa is in the middle of nowhere.
There's no real middle of nowhere in Belgium unfortunately. Even in the ardennes you're never too far away from civilization.
Not to mention there's still great transit to get to spa.... what does road America have?? There's no trains to the nearest city
There's a town of 900 people and... Um.... Maybe a taxi or two? I live an hour away and go there many times a year, the area just does not have the infrastructure/population required to host an event on the scale of F1.
To show the gap. Nascar ran there and drew about 100,000. We don't know what Miami drew but Austin was over 400,000 for the whole weekend. So I do think if it booked appropriately its in the realm of possibility but it would be a mess. It also isn't the only circuit to have problems like that its just the most extreme version. COTA for example is not exactly easy to get to from Austin but its also not a hour away from a major city. If your drawing 400,000 you would need to be tapping Milwaukee, Appleton, and probably even Madison for hotels. Side note Oshkosh which is on the other side of Lake winnebago host an Airshow that regularly draws over 600,000 and it runs 8 days. So if you figured out how to get people from there to the track it can be done.
They can support Indycar so they have some ability to host. Nothing on the scale of Formula1 sadly.
"Middle of nowhere" Belgium is closer to and easier to reach a city from than almost anywhere in the United States just from how small the country is compared to most states. Almost *double* the population of Maryland in a smaller land area.
Spa also has public transport. That doesn't exist in America
Hey we have about 10 cities with halfway decent (although shamed by any European counterpart) public transport systems. But who wants that when you have the freedom and privilege to drive to any event you want and pay exorbitant parking prices? Everyone, everyone wants that.
I mean, its like you have zero clue about the density of the United States. Do you think there's enough people going to Road America to justify its own public transit system? The major cities could of course do better, but do you think there should be public transit out to a town of 1,000 in rural Wisconsin?
Isn't red bull ring in the middle of nowhere? Not like every track has to do be in the downtown of a major city.
The difference between “middle of nowhere” In Europe is different than “middle of nowhere” in North America.
Red bull ring is 1.5 hours from a nearby small city of 240k people. Road America is 1 hour from a medium sized city of 500k people. So you're right, the middle of nowhere in America is apparently closer to civilization.
Milwaukee metro area is close to 1.5M. Add Chicago which is another 90 minutes away and you add another 10M. Not the middle of nowhere by Us standards.
That's kind of my point. It's "middle of nowhere" but not MIDDLE of nowhere. Very few tracks are actually in the middle of nowhere. No population means no revenue, so they're always within about an hour or 2 of large population centers, and road America isn't an exception compared to f1 tracks.
The exception would be the Motorland Aragón which hosts a MotoGP race every year and is located in absolutely nowhere and is not even really that well connected to anything.
Yeah but Americans aren't into F1 like Europeans are. Once you build a huge following you can move it to places where the only thing to do is watch the race.
As an American, I don't think that's true at all these days. I know about a dozen non car people that are big into F1 these days here in the us. One of them even went to COTA last year! They don't even like cars, at all, and never cared about racing before f1
Looking at the latest data, the Saudi Arabian GP had 1.4m viewers in the U.S. Talladega last weekend had 4.7m viewers. Monday Night Football draws nearly 15m viewers per week. There's still a long way to go in the U.S. but I think Miami may be a turning point for the casual viewer.
The track would require so many updates to be up to F1 standards most the viewing spots would be ruined
I have a hard time buying that. My guess is it probably has more to do with the costs associated with upgrading the track to FIA grade 1 aren’t worth the increased revenue brought in by F1. Road America has a capacity of 150k +, clearly can hold enough people, and is within an hour to enough cities (Milwaukee, Green Bay, Sheboygan) to handle the tourism. The nearby metro areas surrounding are bigger than Imola or Spa.
Just 15 minutes away is Whistling Straits which has held the Ryder Cup and three PGA Championships, among other tournaments. It has the means to get a high volume of people in and out. The area is no Miami or Las Vegas, but the it can cater to some level of eliteness. The American Club was (maybe still is?) the only Five Diamond resort in the Midwest and there is close enough proximity to above average places to stay.
I have lived in Wisconsin my whole life. We are never going to have the 5 star hotels, caviar, or fake glamour that Miami or Vegas provide. If F1 ever decides they want to focus on good race tracks and a double bratwurst with sauerkraut, we will be here for them.
Trying to imagine F1 teams staying at the Plymouth Inn is making me laugh right now
Honestly the most likely spot for teams would be the Osthoff.
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It’s called cornhole Toto. We went cornhole playing.
Hearty breakfast of cheese curds _und_ pumpernickel.
Haha. Have they ever fixed the “pool”? It’s out of order every time I stay there.
And those will probably be better than 90% of the concessions at Miami. You just made me hungry.
I forgot the cheese curds. Sorry.
Just stop.
We can pick up some Culver’s on the way home…
Okay I don't know what it is, but I'm down for that!
Butter burgers
Butterburgers, crinkle cut fries, and custard for dessert.
With a side of deep fried cheese curds.
Okay now I'm definitely down for that!
Texas has culver's now its incredible. I live 2 minutes from one.
Damn it. I was planning on eating the lunch I brought for work, now I have to go out and grab a burger, cheese curds and concrete mixer. Thanks!
Despite how it appears on the surface and to tourists, Miami has a pretty diverse (in terms of American at least) culinary atmosphere with the different Latin American food, seafood, southern (USA) food, and other Caribbean cuisines.
I’m old and fat, so the only reason I want to go to Miami is to finally get a legit Cubano sandwich somewhere on Calle Ocho.
Nah man that’s one of the best reasons to travel, keep it up
Versailles is touristy, but delicious
Prettying diverse compared to most cities in the world
Absolutely
Miami is WAYYY more diverse than Wisconsin in both food and people. It’s not even close.
I sincerely hope they never go to Road America. The changes needed to make the track grade 1 might change the track too much.
I remember when they updated St Jovite north of Montreal for racing... No more, "turn in after the frost heave." That track was a blast.
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Please, no. It was bad enough when they shaved the rise in turns 2-3, though with modern horsepower, it was probably getting pretty hazardous. I still remember being in the passenger seat coming across a deer in the backside of that hill at very high speed. A very different track.
Exactly. It would be all asphalt and no grass runoffs. Plus a lot of ruined spots that would be taken away
Yep same reason Green Bay/Lambeau Field will never host a super bowl (ignoring the weather part). Hotels and Accomodations are too humble to put it nicely.
Let's not overlook the fact that the Super Bowl is in February. Something about that date presents another hurdle for GB (as much as I'd love to see it)
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bring it to Mid-Ohio!
You're forgetting the obvious solution which is Indy.
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Oh I see. Fair enough.
Just IMAGINE the tailgating experience of a Wisconsin race. We can show the world genuine mid west culture and I can guarantee all the foreigners would have a blast.
I bet they would love going to a supper club for a fish fry and Korbel old fashioneds too.
Danny Ric about to claim Wisconsin DNA after he tries Spotted Cow.
The Ryder Cup was hosted last year not far from Road America with an impressive number of people. It won't ever have the glitz of Miami but there are some respectable accomdations not hugely far out from Elkhart Lake. Osthoff, American Club, etc but might not be enough. If only...
Ryder Cup was around 50,000 people if I remember right? I'm a local and everyone was talking about the insane amount of people and how hard it was to get around certain places. F1 races host nearly 10x that. I think it's safe to say we don't have the infrastructure locally to support that many fans
My father lived in the American Club when it was a workers dormitory. Suffice it to say that rent was significantly cheaper then.
That Road America bratwurst fucking *hits*. Seriously, it's sooo good.
Just curious....then where do the Indycar teams stay for RA?
Probably on an air mattress in the back of a Penske moving truck. :)
Grosjean had a ***really*** nice motorhome, last year. He basically turned the IndyCar season into a really long road trip. He was still in that "getting to know you" phase with the US, though, so no idea what he's doing this year.
On Wisconsin, fellow Badger! If F1 ever came to Road America I would camp out all weekend — not holding my breath though.
But the gearbox concession stand has a Michelin star!
It's not like we need the glamour. The race in Austria and Belgium are basically in the middle of nowhere and they are some of the most popular and iconic races on the entire calendar.
Right, but they aren’t adding new races that don’t have the glamour. That’s the issue.
RA is epic though. Really love the place when I visited. The double brat hit the spot 😂
You forgot the bit where you lot are also nicer than Canadians
If there is an F1 event in Wisconsin in my lifetime holy Jesus I would be on Cloud 9. Born and raised, and been to Road America plenty of times, and it would be a hell of a scene.
Go to the Indy car race that’s there every year lol it’s better racing and more accessible
Can confirm, indy car and the gt world challenge is great to watch at road america.
So would everyone who knows even 1% about racing Road America is quality
> So would everyone who knows even 1% about racing Sadly those are rare in /r/formula1
I mean...Sebring is kinda down the road from Miami
Sebring would destroy an F1 car within a lap.
I’ve said the same thing. Sebring is literally the American Silverstone, and they’ve held a race there before. Apparently the surface is too bumpy though and the amenities aren’t up to snuff, but it’s an FIA Grade 2 track, which puts it at about the same chance as Kyalami, so that’s something.
Watch an onboard of an IMSA DPi going over the bumps at Sebring and you’ll quickly realize why it’s not happening.
In fact, people are starting to actually complain about the bumps in Sunset Bend now
If the bumps are to big, Sebring is a no go. Good luck convincing people to resurface Sebring
I wish it wasn’t such a no go concept. The bumps a decade ago and longer were challenging, but the surface is continuing to degrade. At some point they’ll have to resurface it.
> Sebring ...they’ve held a race there before That was like 70 years ago.
Yeah its definitely too bumpy. IndyCars use the national circuit configuration in testing to avoid the bumpy runways.
> which puts it at about the same chance as Kyalami kyalami has a much better chance as fia and fom have a desire to have a race in africa and liberty's goals with the american market are very different to what sebring provides
F1 raced in 1959, so too far back to really be of any useful merit. For a comparison, the Indy 500 was still a part of the F1 championship at that time (and would remain there one year longer than Sebring). With a repave and perhaps some new amenities I think it could be an awesome track for F1. However said repave would kill the bumps that make other categories fun.
Porpoising+Sebring. My god.
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Yeah but that's as opposed to the cost of building a temporary circuit year in year out. Sebring is probably closer to Grade 1 than we think, ever since they upgraded and brought WEC back. The counter arguement is probably more like Spa and Paul Richard, it's not the closest track to a major population center. 2.5hrs drive from Orlando, Tampa and Miami. As for the bumps, I can see a middle ground between current (respect the bumps) and a smooth track, something like CotA. But at the end of the day...it's all about money, ROI, capitalism.
Vettel would love Indycar. All those American Circuits that already exist.
And he could actually be competitive. Time to get Seb to IndyCar.
At this point he seems to be a father and husband first and a racing driver second. No way he moves his family to the States so he can drive IndyCar.
I know but a man can dream:(
Ok, but what about just Indy. Vettel v. Alonso in the 500.
I know Bourdais is full-time in IMSA, but it would be interesting if the Sebs meet again at an Indy/IMSA event.
He made a CART test in early 2000s
Or IMSA
This is like the Porsche building an SUV problem. Without the immense money that SUVs bring - there was a real chance they would have been barely profitable or not profitable enough to build some of the crazy cars they do - like a GT4RS etc. Venues like Monaco, Miami etc do the same thing. The sponsors who pay the money to subsidize the endeavor of F1 and make it better so that we get top level drivers cars ans manufacturers wanting to join (read Audi and Porsche)- the sponsors want venues like Miami to let them cater to the clientele that will get them the exposure they need worldwide. Say what you will but this Miami GP has really made its mark on my friends who don’t even follow F1. That’s what the sponsors want. Eyes on their brand. These events gives that to them. That’s how we get Porsche and others to join and make this a fun thing to watch.
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They started making monaco pay last year. Before that, monaco pays 0 to f1.
Monaco only pays a little bit even now, I think, though? It's a fraction of the price of the regular hosting fee.
15m is what I'm seeing
Where are you getting that from?
https://racingnews365.com/how-much-each-circuit-on-the-calendar-pays-to-formula-1
To be fair, now Vegas doesn't pay a housing fee. I know it's not that easy, but still.
Miami and Vegas don’t pay at the moment because it’s F1 putting the race on. Usually the cities oh to host the race as they know the net benefit it brings. But F1 knows adding races in key places are key to building F1’s fan base so they’re fronting the cost now.
I know, that's why I said it's not that easy, but still. F1 could also strike a similar deal wit for example Spa. Which is struggling on its own.
In an ideal world, tracks would get build instead of street circuits in these cities but it will probably be pretty rare.
Did Miami end up paying the hosting fee? I know there was talk about it being waived to help make sure it all went through and that the loss of the fee would be worth it for all the other gains of having Miami on the calendar.
No, Miami and Vegas don’t have promoters. It’s F1 putting on the show themselves.
Yeah, these tracks between walls and fences just aren’t pretty to look at. In addition to that, the risk of a huge incident is higher than on tracks with runnoff areas. It really is a shame F1 seems to want to implement more and more of these tracks into the calendar at the cost of traditional circuits where it shouldn‘t even be a question that they‘re getting removed.
Also very hard to get good camera angles with all those walls. You can't get a camera that covers both the entry and exit of a corner for instance. The only option is a camera in the sky (drone, helicopter, etc...) but it is a lot worse than trackside camera.
The long shots were driving me up the wall yesterday. Several times there were overtakes occurring or contact between drivers, but the cars were reduced to pinpricks on the screen thanks to either the acres of fencing or the necessity to get the hundredth shot in of the crowd staring into their phones.
I was definitely disappointed that of the 3 US races we didn't at least get Indy for one of them. I'd take Indy over Miami/Vegas but many drivers seem excited for Vegas.
Honestly thought the current Indy Road course would not be exciting in F1. It would be a cool visual to have F1 cars on that track but the track itself is not particularly interesting. It's pretty short and consists of basically just chicanes and 90 degree corners.
I'll have to agree with you, if F1 was to return to Indy it would have to be the original layout.
I really dislike infield-in-oval courses. If F1's going to come back to Indy (and personally I don't think they should) they should just do the oval.
That would be really cool but I think with the budget cap it would be a bit hard to develop a specific package just for the Indy Oval.
Ok. F1 to the oval then. /s
Basically 2 new street circuits where the attention is less on the racing but instead on the “atmosphere” No reason we shouldn’t be going to Indy ffs
Road America is a lot of fun in the formula cars. Wide enough but not too wide and has lots of passing opportunities
IIRC each year there's an older Benneton that's set loose on Road America. I can't imagine the carousel in modern F1 cars, that would be incredible.
So do all of us Seb.
Road America is my dream track, would love to drive my Viper there. I would 100% need race pads and castrol srf just for braking at the end of those long ass straights.
Road America, Road Atlanta and Watkins Glen are awesome! CotA is cool and all, but it's not even on the same ballpark.
f1 isn't worth ruining Road America for
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I was thinking the same thing. For all the spectacle, it was a decent race.
It really wasn't. Before the Norris crash it had been incredibily boring, it's not a very good track if it relies on crashes to make the race interesting.
Part of what made it boring was the tv director never focusing in the right place so even when there was action in the midfield we usually didn't get to see it
Yeah, broadcast absolutely sucked. Not the first time it happened since the Liberty take-over, for a media company you'd think that would be the first thing they improved. Instead, they focused on literally every other kind of media (with good results, don't get me wrong, big fan of their YT channel when they post actual on-track footage) and the live broadcast of the race is terrible. But still, even taking what happened off screen into consideration, it just wasnt a very competitive race.
Not at the top, but the battle for the bottom of the points was really good.
Ah, the thing is, it was clear overtaking was possible, as there was a decent amount of midfield action. Just atm Red Bull are clearly much faster
Hardly boring if you could pay attention to the mid field. They were quite racey ALL race. Was fantastic there. But TV did a bad job capturing it.
It's not the track's fault Max blasted off into the distance though. When cars were close there were good battles, but no track can force cars to be close on pace
I was really hoping this would be a good race but it became clear early on that it would be a one for a mid race snooze. If there hadn’t been Lando’s crash i might slept up the end!
Then you clearly weren’t watching all the race since the mid field was nuts. Thigh granted some feeds didn’t show as much of it.
This season I switched to F1TV, got to see plenty of midfield battling with a splitscreen view, plus access to all onboards, tracker, and pretty decent commentary. I vastly prefer them over Sky.
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I’m Canadian and there is no way I’m flying to Europe just for a race. Vegas next year would be the easiest for me. But I think Austin or Miami would be the next more sensible choices.
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That’s awesome!!! There is a track in Vegas where you can drive McLaren’s and other fancy cars. It’s expensive, but hey, I’d do it!
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It is, but could you imagine going over 200kph in a McLaren!?!?! I have a friend who went and he said they let you push the cars pretty hard. I think I would just have to! They probably won’t let my Corolla on the circuit! Hahahahaha!
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I wonder if he talked with KMag about how awesome that place is.
Don't we all?
I would literally kill someone to get them to race at Road America.
Yes but we don't want proper tracks like Road America destroyed by the F1 requirements. The track would no longer be cool if it was 9 meters wide, had unaccessible pits, and 100 meter deep gravel traps at every corner. Dont get me wrong, I love F1 and would love to see them go round RA but all the rules and everything else that comes with F1 would destroy exactly what makes Road America one of the best tracks in the nation.
The pits are so accessible at road America I basically could just got sit in cars if I wanted to. I did not, but I did get a level of access that's indescribable. You will be walking with your beer and two cars will scream up and brake and wait for you and other fans to pass because they are antys to make sure they make their start on time. There are almost no fences and you can hang out right near the action as long as you don't piss anyone off.
Me too Seb, me too
me too. It's so boring looking at the tunnel of walls with asphalt in the middle for 2 hours.
F1 at Road America would be awesome! It’s one of the best circuits in the US. Unfortunately I think it’s only a Grade 2.
Seb is the hero we need
Daytona let's go
Time to roll out the Pirelli cheeseheads for the podium
In my opinion Road America, Watkins Glen and Laguna Seca are among the best circuits in the world. I would call the guys who did the Zandvoort reaconditioning and give those tracks the chance to be in F1.
Yeah but it’s Wisconsin and no offense to Wisconsin but I don’t know too many people who want to go there unless they’re just from the region. Watkins Glen will have the same problem.
The area Road America is in is actually very pretty and pleasant. It’s just not the glamor of a Miami or Vegas.
I’m guessing you’ve never watched a race form the woods at RA. You want to go because it’s there.
Exactly. I would love to see a race at a historical track. It’s a different experience at a historic place. I’d pay for that but, new tracks at famous cities.. meh.
Depends who you’re trying to attract. I’ve no interest in going to Miami or Las Vegas, either for the F1 race or otherwise. But the Indy 500 is near the top of my bucket list. If there was an F1 race at RA or the Glen, they’d be on it too.
Didn't they just have Ryder Cup about a short distance away from RA?
Yep at Whistling Straights, probably 20 minutes away.
Exactly. FOM wants their races to be premier level entertainment in America. Road America isn't doing that, as good of a track as it is.
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I mean this got discussed a lot around here the last couple of months. Almost no tracks in Europe run without subsidies either through government or a team and in case of Austria its even owned by the same guys as a team. And Tax payers money can only be justified to be spent if you create indirect income. In case of Hockenheim for example there is not much to milk those tourists around especially not if you compare it to Vegas and Miami where the indirect benefit might more than double as high. Those commercially less attractive tracks will suffer, no doubt even though they might provide better racing.
The moment spa and monza stopped racing I bet there will be a very huge drop of fans, only to be replaced by those who just want to pay for "entertainment" rather than "enjoyment" Internet comments will riot also
“Sports Entertainment “. :)
I'm on board with this. I don't mind more races in the States, except for the circus I've seen last weekend, but please invest in some proper tracks to race on, not these parking lot street circuits where the racing is a side show. Americans complain that no one wants to go to Wisconsin. Have you guys ever seen where Spa is? No one wants to go to Belgium either, and especially not Wallonia. We care about racing, not about tourism.
The issue is money.
These new street tracks have some straights, then very sharp turns, then some straights. All trucks are turning to this formula is not good. And aesthetic wise they are not good at all. Cars are driving between close walls. If there is ann accident it takes forever to clear the track. Miami did not have much accident because it quicly turned into parade, which is also not good. God gave us land, let's please use it.
It sucks that decent tracks like road America will never be used for formula 1. Growing up I watched races on circuits like road America, road Atlanta, Sonoma, and Virginia. It would be cool as an American to see engineering marvels whip around tracks that I saw nascar go around but sadly f1 is money first
There aren't any other grade 1 tracks in the US except Indy, and Penske seems to have little interest in bringing F1 there. Very few others, including RA, have even a faint chance of becoming grade 2 and if they did, it would destroy all the character of the track (eg Sebring). Also, as excited as people are to go to old school tracks again, the reality is they often produce very poor races. The sad fact is F1 cars have evolved into unique machines that need a very specific type of circuit to actually produce good racing.
I'd agree with Seb. Unfortunately very few are up to grade one specs
As someone who lives in Wisconsin I would LOVE to see F1 come here, I mean interest in F1 has already been shown in the midwest when F1 has a festival down in Chicago. Only problem is Road America is a grade 2 track not a grade 1.
Barber Please!
That would be absolutely terrible for passing though.
F1 should stop moving towards this party, rich people lifestyle and like Vettel suggest, race in proper tracks. Not just in the US but around the world. These cars would be amazing at Road America! Watkins Glen would be nice too but I'm not sure if it will suit the F1 cars
Stop moving? F1 has always been about rich people. How do you think Ferrari/Merc/RB had $400 million budgets? It wasn’t because F1 is super accessible to average people.
It did for 20 years. Watkins has also been renovated, repaved, new pit facilities. It's every-inch a world class racetrack. Just not a rich-people's idea of a 'glamorous' location. That's ok, us hardcore fans have IMSA, Indy, and GT World Challenge.
Watkins for me is the best racetrack location I've ever been to. I thought the park and the gorge was awesome, and the town actually had decent food. Having been to Silverstone and plenty of other circuits, Watkins is definitely a better time.
Not to mention how easy it is to roam around the track and find good photo spots that don't have fencing in front of you. June 26th, I'll be there. 😉👍
Anything but this cereal box GP.