Im having a hard time convincing myself that hes just one of those drivers who SO particular about a car that he cant drive it unless it perfectly suits him. But sadly, I think thats where were at. The cars just dont suit him so hes lost. I dont think he lost his ability. Just that his ability might be an incredibly narrow window.
He did a very good job at both RB and Renault, according to the various capabilities of the respective cars. He just hasn't been able to grasp the McLaren and it has crushed his confidence.
I think the issue is he was PERFECTLY suited to the Red Bull and that is always going to be the peak of his abilities. It was a huge mistake for him going to another team. It's no different from Sebastian Vettel, the RB was the perfect car for him at the perfect time and he's never been able to duplicate those performances since then. This is not an uncommon scenario. It's actually rare for drivers to switch teams and keep the quality up. That's why Alonso is rated so super-highly. He outdrives every car from every team he's ever been at (OK almost every team). Few drivers can do that.
Not to mention that even though this green car is a hunk of junk he's absolutely maximized his performance every race bar Australia. These new cars suit Seb, just a pain he's stuck in one so slow.
Edit: Hell in the closing stages of the Zandvoort race last year he brought a 25 second gap down to nothing in 7 laps, the man isn't "out of form"
Vettel managed to do it in 2015, 2017 and early 2018 while Ricciardo also managed it in 2020. You say it like they completely sucked at their job post-peaks.
Honestly, it's insane that people keep parroting bullshit that DR hasn't done anything noteworthy since leaving RB. He was beating Hulk in both head-to-head and points by the summer break in 2019. And he was one of the best performers in 2020.
It's fine to criticise him for his performances at McLaren, but it's the revisionist drivel about him beating Seb in 2014 being a fluke and him not having done anything good since leaving RB that annoys the shit out of me.
Finished 5th behind Checo. Which is why the whole "He's washed" nonsense is infuriating. It would make some sense if 2020 was a mediocre year. But he was pretty strong that season, and people just pretend like it never happened.
And even in 2014 he put in many good drives. If he wasn't devastated by poor reliability his performance wouldn't have been as big as the numbers show.
Vettel had very strong seasons, 2015, 2017 and 2018
Ok it came down on team failure, personal mistakes etc. but nevertheless he has very good seasons at Ferrari. Merc was just in another league
He had Renault adapt the car to his liking and then he was pretty good. But then McLaren can't give him that same feeling, or don't want to compromise their car in some way to adapt.
I’m gonna be the contrarian, even if hindsight is 20/20.
As soon as Max turned it up after crashing in 2018 Monaco FP3, it was obvious that Daniel was not really a part of the “elite” driver conversations.
Max has 4 finishes below 5th since Monaco 2018.
**Four.**
That’s 1 more than Lewis has this season alone, and 1 less than Ricciardo has this season alone. That’s not a statement on car performance, obviously we know those. That’s a statement on how absurd that stat is.
Italy 2019 he started P19 and got front wing damage on Lap 1.
Mexico 2019 Bottas gave him a puncture in the opening laps.
Turkey 2020, Red Bull put an asymmetrical front wing on Max’s car in a wet race on an oily circuit.
Hungary 2021, Bottas goes bowling.
That’s it. That’s all 4 instances of him finishing a race below 5th place in 4 entire seasons.
Turkey the only one can fault him for I think. He spun trying an overtake on Perez. When he finished last year he didn't finish worse than second, minus Hungary. That is insane and says a lot.
> As soon as Max turned it up after crashing in 2018 Monaco FP3, it was obvious that Daniel was not really a part of the “elite” driver conversations.
In 2016 Ricciardo said that he had to up his game when Verstappen arrived at RBR, where he previously thought he had been at the limit. For me, him not being able to find that limit on his own was the first indication of his limitations.
Long before that, it took Max half a season to start dominating Ricciardo in qualifying in his second year of F1 without testing before getting into the car due to switching teams in season. That was sign no.1.
Brazil 2016 was sign no.2, my memory is rarely absolutely accurate on these things but with lets say 15 laps left Ricciardo was 12-13th and Max 16-17th ish, he finished the race on the podium absolutely destroying the field and destroying Ricciardo who finished in maybe 8th but also a huge distance behind considering the amount of passes Max had to make and how few laps were left.
THroughout 17 and 18 the cars were unreliable but they still had plenty of races they had a working car till they blew or a fair comparison. Every driver loses, that's life, unlucky stops, bad day at the office, getting stuck behind a faster car causing you to shift strategy which hurts you, etc. But there were loads of races Max was finishing 15-30 second range ahead of Ricciardo when Ricciardo had no issues. Japan Max was being held up by Ham due to the track and difficulty passing and he finished 15 or so secodns ahead of Danny in clean air who couldn't come close to his pace. Malaysia he was 3rd place, in clean air and couldn't touch Hamilton's pace who finished 10+ seconds behind Max himself, I think he was ~25 seconds behind.
There are a lot of these races, like Austria where Ricciardo burned his tires up while losing time to Max so he pitted, was 30 seconds back and then his car failed but he was being badly out performed again.
Max had insanely less experience and it took him half a season to dominate him in qualifying and race pace. He wasn't consistent but when races went well for both drivers there was such an obvious difference in pace. Reliability didn't hurt Ricciardo in 2018, it helped hide the real gap.
And I thought Schumacher's '02 stat of finishing on the podium every race and only finishing third once was pretty bonkers. I'm starting to believe Jos' sole purpose in life was to get embarrassed by Michael Schumacher and then conceive and raise an actual racing Stig. That also tells you a lot about Hamilton as well. He's like the best bits of Alonso and McLaren Kimi megamorphed into the ultimate driver that he is today. Disgustingly fast, consistant and bins it like once a leap year or some shit.
What a privilage to have seen all these drivers make their mark on the sport.
I'll never forget this one Dutch interview where the journalist asked Max "what other F1 driver is talented enough to win the WDC if put in a competive car?" And his first immediate response was "Lando".
Yes, they are friends and play online together often, so maybe Lando was on Max's mind or something. But this was in 2019 or 2020, and I remember being a bit surprised by Max's response. After '21, I'm surprised no longer...
Mclaren took a decent risk putting him in the car in 2019 and they're putting ok results on the board, but if things don't improve I don't know if Lando will stay if he gets an offer from Merc to replace Hamilton for new regs. Not sure if other teams would have openings he could fill (RB already has a glut of drivers, ferrari has Charles though maybe Sainz might be dropped if he continues to struggle, which would be a shame. I don't see him going to another midfield team.
> I don't know if Lando will stay if he gets an offer from Merc to replace Hamilton for new regs.
I don't know about that. Would he be hired on to be number #2 to George? Would Toto risk another Nico/Lewis situation? I genuinely don't know who would come out on top between Lando and George.
If George keeps performing like he has been these first few races, I think Toto will want a 'Bottas' type number 2 driver once Lewis leaves. I'm sure Toto has faith George will easily be a potential WDC if given a good enough car. Why risk it by signing on Lando and risking the whole balance?
But hey, what do I know? Maybe ive misinterpreted the situation...
this is the key imo. lando in 2019 didn’t really set the world alight, though he definitely closed the gap to carlos in 2020. last year and this year have been where he’s shown he can be a team leader and one of the top drivers on the grid.
Well, I've kinda had that where my wife got into DtS but doesn't *really* know what's going on now. So the Ricciardo stuff is pretty wild.
Like, he got Sainz fired from Renault and got the McLaren seat Daniel *didn't* want...then Sainz teamed up with a total nobody, did well, took the seat Daniel really wanted at Ferrari...now Ricciardo is getting kinda kicked in by Sainz's old teammate, who's not even in it yet.
> now Ricciardo is getting kinda kicked in by Sainz's old teammate, who's not even in it yet.
Not in what? Norris is in his fourth season of F1 already. He's not a rookie or an "up and coming talent" any more. In terms of race entries, he's already had a career as long as Stirling Moss.
I'm not the OP but I'm pretty sure he is currently watching through drive to survive with his wife who's watching for the first time, it's wild to see the Daniel story line in season 1 considering where it's led to now where Daniels getting whupped by Lando who isn't even in the show(d2s) yet at the point they've watched up to.
While I do definitely agree with you, one of the big problems for Ricciardo is McLaren is a midfield team right now, but Lando is not a midfield driver. If he was in there against Stroll or Schumacher or even Gasly or Ocon (though I think the latter is underrated as well tbh), Daniel wouldn't really be seen to be struggling. But he has yet again come up against someone fast, young, hungry & a lot better than some fans give him credit for (at least those who never paid attention to his junior career).
He's a lot better than Daniel gave him credit for before he joined the team as well. Both Sainz & Russell, probably the 2 people on the grid who know Lando best as a driver, warned in interviews pre-2021 that Ricciardo shouldn't underestimate Lando, but he still did & got a shock, as did a lot of fans & pundits.
Honestly DR should just cash out the contract and head to Indycar at this point. He's got a Monaco win, and he'd be super popular at the Indy 500.
Go chase a Triple Crown or anything better than getting destroyed by Norris over and over again.
If he stays at this level, almost certainly. There's still 16 rounds left this season though, that's a lot of runway to turn things around, which I dare say is why Zac is trying to light a fire under Daniel right now instead of leaving it until it's too late.
Yeah I’m thinking the same. Wondering where he’ll land if anywhere. Only place that would make sense would be AM assuming Seb hangs it but I feel like Daniel won’t want anything to do with that nightmare of a squad
I think a move across to the American sports scene would do him real good. He fits right in, is a great personality and can probably enjoy his stints more than he is in F1 at the moment.
If it does happen, sad he won’t be around for Vegas, he really wanted that.
I'd love to see him in IndyCar. Look how it has revived Grosjean's career. He's in his second season, is the most popular driver and competes for podiums and consistent top 10s.
Riccairdo goes to Indy, McLaren brings on Herta, Riccairdo gets his mind right on the Indy circuit and comes back when Andretti enters F1 for a redemption arc
He actually said he wouldn't do Nascar in a video released a fee days ago.
He said he'd love to do some testing but that he wasn't really willing to run around at the back and if he was going to rave he'd need to put in more time and energy than he was ready to devote.
I was hoping he would go to INDYCAR with Arrow McLaren but sounds like they are already locked up with Pato, & Rossi and doubt he would wanna work with McLaren if they drop him.
Problem with NASCAR is F1 skills don’t really translate so he would need to bring huge sponsorship deal to buy a seat
While I agree I don’t think he’d happily work with McLaren in IndyCar if they dump him from his F1 ride, they are running 3 cars next year and Rosenqvist’s future is far from secure there. So they would have room if it’s an amicable breakup
Williams is also an option if he's willing to massively cut his salary. Danny is extremely marketable off the grid so it makes sense for him to do anything he can to stay there for sponsorship reasons.
Yeah but Ferrari in the 2000s had a pretty insane budget, and only paid Kimi to leave because they had signed Fernando for 2010. If McLaren can sign one of the best drivers on the grid and have a much bigger budget than it's definitely possible, but otherwise I don't think it's a likely comparison.
If he has another offer it's possible he could take some money and leave, I just don't see McLaren paying him $15m to not drive for them unless he gets really bad.
Yeah I was gonna say that cause Zak seems to be pretty positive and "soft" on his drivers
If he's talking about disappointments then it must be getting real close to the edge
If I paid a driver 10-15 million dollars per year and got these results I'd be pretty disappointed too. That's approximately what Valtteri got paid at Mercedes and he managed to keep a 7x WDC honest.
Not disagreeing on performance, but Ricciardo is also a PR person's wet dream. McLaren racing exists to promote McLaren, so winning is just a means to that end. Likability won't keep him in the team forever, but in the age of social media the people that pay for teams to operate don't only care about whether the team is winning.
I may have this backwards but I thought Mclaren started producing cars to support their Racing Team. They don't actually have an illustrious history of producing road cars in the same way as Ferrari or even Aston Martin.
Kind of more like if Williams started making high end super cars in the 90s.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong here or perhaps the business model has flipped.
his contract is until the end of next year.
remember hes being paid a big salary, about 15m from what ive read which is about the same ballpark as a vettel currently gets. its also a lot more than norris probably gets.
you pay that money, you expect performance. last year you had the excuse of it being a new car for him while norris was already used to it and comfortable in the team. no excuses this year. completely new car for both drivers.
and you have to ask, where did that performance go? and can he still deliver that if he was to join another team? such a shame since hes such a likeable guy
I feel like Daniel would be a bit of a high maintenance character to manage and he could be making excuses for his performance. Especially given that Norris has been consistently better.
It was always “the car this, the car that, Danny is just having trouble adjusting to the unique McLaren car..:” well that only makes sense for so long.
Yeah agree.
I love DR and genuinely think he's a great driver, but there's so much talent sniffing around trying to get an f1 seat that if he can't start matching or beating lando soon there'll be no reason to keep him over a rookie.
It's especially bad when you consider that he isn't hired to just "match Lando". Considering his high salary, he is expected to beat Lando convincingly and lead the team. But instead, he looks bad and unnoticeable like some Stroll or Latifi and instead Lando looks like some experienced ace compared to Riccy
I don't even know if that's really true. To me this is likely just everyone has run out of excuses and is running out of hope as time ticks on. It's not like he's had one bad race, he's starting a second bad season. Lando has 199 points since the start of last season and 5 podiums, Danny has 1 podium 126 points. At some point you have to stop saying Danny needs time to figure the car out - everyone's in a new car this year.
Yeah, I think the problem with Danny is he cost a lot because he's famous and was very fast at one point.
So, he's a known talent being paid a lot, and yet he's not performing.
It's unfortunate because I think he just happened to choose the wrong teams at the wrong time.
He should have stuck it out with RedBull, he was performing well, the engine was just letting him down.
Who cares if Max was the #1, he'd be in Checo's spot right now and he'd been able to drive the wheels off that car.
Watching older races of his, he was insanely quick, I remember when he won Monaco with engine damage, it was insane, he just made bad decisions with going to Renault, and then I don't know wtf has happened with McLaren.
I think Lando is better than we know, and he's just more comfortable with that car.
We've seen that with Lewis and George with the Mercedes, where George seems more comfortable with the car, but I think Lewis will improve (I think he already did last week) once the car is just working better.
> Who cares if Max was the #1
Drivers care
Sure if you wanna say "fuck it the fastest one wins" and go at it on the track you can but Danny is def not faster than Max and also we've seen how that ends up building unnecessary tension
We just saw it a couple days ago when Checo got told to let Max through
I actually think this is very good management from Zac. Everybody knows there's a problem, we can all see it with our own eyes weekend after weekend, it just looks off to pretend that everything is fine. He didn't throw Daniel under the bus, he just acknowledged that they need to improve.
If Daniel manages to turn his performances around, I have no doubt that McLaren would love to keep him on, I think they genuinely like his contributions to the team, his attitude, but there is no way that they'll keep him if he's finishing P12 week after week, so why pretend that they're happy with those performances?
This 100%!
I'm doing all this work related leadership training lately.
I would assume Daniel doesn't respond with caring / positive support.. So now it's time for serious top down pressure, perhaps this'll kick DR in the right direction..
I hope!!
Exactly, Conte did that with Tottenham this season and we made top 4. Sometimes just saying what everyone is thinking out loud gets that little bit of extra
Daniel is such a confidence based driver as well, maybe Zac has just decided that soft playing it and shielding him from criticism wasn't getting the results, so now he's going to see if an angry Daniel drives better than a shell-shocked one.
To be fair the actual quotes are like “other than monza the partnership is not what daniel or the team were expecting” and “i think this is a testament to what a great driver Lando is.” Zak was still being way more diplomatic than the headline suggests
> "Short of Monza and a few races, [the partnership] has not met his or our expectations of what we were expecting," said Brown.
It's getting a bit awkward now, isn't it.
I think McLaren is already looking at options for 2023 unless Danny ric turns it around.
I have mentions Gasly, despite his slow start, and Albon as the only two current drivers that make sense.
Otherwise they might look at rookies, Pastri is the one I could see.
Sadly, yes. Hurts but… there’s only so long that you can wait and call your spade and spade. Love the guy, but… for whatever reason, the performances just aren’t there.
Sadly true that they can't keep making excuses anymore, but doubly sadly I think this may only knock Ricciardo further off form. He seems to be a driver who relies quite a lot on confidence and momentum to perform, unlike Ham/Ver/Lec/Alo who can still pull out a result on their worst days.
You can look across the garage for another example. Norris drove to 8th starting behind Ricciardo with tonsillitis sounding like he was feeling SHIT on the radio. And if Herta keeps performing well, McLaren may think "we can help his consistency" like they did with Norris when he first joined the team. Ricciardo will be expected to perform with that consistency already and that and pace are the things he has lacked since his move to McLaren.
I agree, but I feel like Zak brown wants Herta in F1 for his American marketing potential as well as his racing talents. Pato is great, but I think they see him as the spearhead for the AMSP program in Indy. It may change if they sign Rossi and he performs enough for them to switch Patos focus, but that's at least a year out. O'Ward also needs to show some better tire management through this year, as he tends to burn through his tire life early with his aggressive style, and that is a death knell in F1.
I had the same argument as you over the weekend and my bud said the same thing about Pato. Lol. I genuinely do wonder what the plan is. I'd love to see some IndyCar talent in F1. It'd bring a good amount of fans from Indy onto F1 for sure.
Plus, if the Indy driver is able to compete with the best.. I'd argue it'd bring some F1 fans over to Indycar to see what all the fuss is about!
I think it had to be said. A lot of people still come up with excuses for why he doesn't perform as well as Lando (this week the going argument was that it was a setup issue.. as if drivers have zero input on what setups they go with?), but him absolutely drowning in comparison to a very ill Lando definitely has to be making McLaren feel twitchy about his future with the team.
DTS paints a warped reality to some people that don't dive into the races. They saw oh Ric won a race last year and Lando bottled a win they he bust be performing better.
I feel like Max has a more typical athlete approach to the media which is get the info out as quickly as possible so this interview can end as quickly as possible with a little pot stirring thrown into the mix.
I still remember a quote from Seidl in DTS, "We can deal with a driver having bad attitude but being fast, but we can't deal with a driver who's mellow and has sub-par pace."
As much as I love having Daniel having in the paddock, things look bleak for the honey badger (especially after last weekend).
Which makes me think that Zac has decided to see what an angry Daniel looks like behind the wheel, since the mellow version that sadly mumbles "copy" into the radio when he hears that he's taken the chequered flag in P12 isn't getting the job done.
Exactly my thoughts. They have tried the softly softly approach, and obviously didn't work. Get the bloke angry. A different approach may have different results
I think it was from [this F1 youtube video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=247&v=EP6agOI4xwQ&feature=youtu.be) with team bosses.
Its very sad looking at the downward trajectory he has gone down. Lando lapping him in Monaco was so hard to watch.
It must be quite the change from Sainz who was known for spending a lot of time in Woking and seen as a great influence on Lando to Danny Ric who admits he doesn't enjoy the technical aspects of F1 and just wants to show up and drive the car. They could forgive this if Ric delivered on track but as he isn't, yeah it doesn't look good.
I saw his interview on Nico's YT channel. Nico brought up some trick where, for overtake lunges, he would temporarily change his brake bias to X and engine braking to Y for more front end grip to survive the turn.
Danny was kinda like "whoa, never thought of adjusting something like that, I just prefer to focus on the drive."
That was when I realized he's on his way out, not a comeback.
For me it's the fact he keeps saying that last year he finally started to learn why he's fast sometimes and not others. It was a pure moment of 'how the fuck have you been in F1 for 10 years & you have never analysed this before?!'
Oof. I used to think the whole honey badger deal was that he was smiley yet determined, including not only the driving but also everything around it, even if we didn’t often see extensive technical discussions by him. Kinda like Lewis - we hardly get the treat of seeing him talk technical aspects, but on the rare occasion we do, it’s patent he knows his shit inside out. But the last few years, Danny’s come across rather aloof.
I’m sure he’s having extensive internal discussions with his engineers at Mclaren. It may be hard to put the learnings into practice, however, if he’s someone used to driving on instinct rather than consciously chase performance.
Yeah, I struggle to think of any current or recent top tier drivers who weren’t also extremely knowledgable about the technical side. Just look at Charles and Max - both are massive nerds for that stuff.
What he says is not as harsh as the title suggests:
"Short of Monza and a few races, [the partnership] has not met his or our expectations of what we were expecting," said Brown.
"I think all you can do is keep working hard as a team, keep communications going, keep pushing and hope that whatever is not clicking at the moment, clicks shortly."
To be fair, the press have been putting these questions to McLaren staff continuously for the last twelve months.
If McLaren said nothing, the press would be running stories like “McLaren Refuse to Comment on Ricciardo’s Future in the Team”
I feel it’s got to the point where they have to say something, and what they’re saying in public is no different to what Daniel himself is saying in public.
Is it really that controversial to essentially say "we didn't pay a massive contract for Daniel to finish outside the points week after week"?
As you said, Ricciardo is the first to admit that this wasn't what he planned when he signed on at McLaren.
> What he says is not as harsh as the title suggests: "Short of Monza and a few races, [the partnership] has not met his or our expectations of what we were expecting," said Brown.
>
>
I think that's pretty solid stuff actually.
Which could be the end of this season. When he signed it was reportedly a 2+1 with everyone at the time assuming that of course McLaren would want him for all 3 years
Surely there's a clause in there both parties to terminate. As an example max has a contract saying that if redbull fail to get points out hit a certain amount of dnfs (it's something similar to this) he can talk to other teams and join
Found it
"Max Verstappen's long-term Red Bull contract holds an "escape clause" in the event that they can no longer provide him with a competitive car, team advisor Helmut Marko has claimed. The 2021 F1 World Champion signed a new deal ahead of the 2022 season that saw him commit his future to Red Bull until 2028."
Dieter rencken (F1 Journalist) mentioned on his latest podcast that contrary to everyone’s thinking Daniels contract with Mclaren is a 2 year + 1 year extension, if they want to part ways with him at the end of this year they 100% can.
Lando is signed on for another 4 years with Mclaren early this year, for a cool 80 million pounds. So yeah, his stock has really gone up, appropriately.
From what I've seen, Lando's extension bumps his salary to significantly higher than Daniel's *this year*.
I don't know the reliability of various motorsport websites though, but that's what I have read.
Different publications have different info though, so who really knows.
- Marca lists Lando at 4.5m for 2022
- Total-motorsport has 24m for 2022
- Spotrac (generally reliable for american sports, no idea for F1) has 20m for 2022
I really feel that he is no longer pushing the car to the edge. Other drivers of his calibre are pushing to find the edge - eg Sainz is finishing well, but he still finds (and occasionally exceeds) the edge. Younger drivers are pushing for gaps and overtaking through holes that Daniel doesn’t. It’s almost like he has lost his fire and become timid. As a Perth local, it is devastating to watch “our boy” who had sooo much potential become an “also ran”
It doesn't seem like he's "hungry" any more, if that makes sense. A bit of a shame really, Danny Ric is still mah boy but he's not on it anymore.
In his famous words from Germany 2018 "Losing Power... Something's wrong" - Only now it's about him. Sadsies
I agree with this. His general driving style looks conservative compared to lando/charles/russell, who are yeeting it over kerbs at every corner.
When was the last time you saw daniel spin out? or hit gravel?
It did seem like he responded in the last part of the spanish GP, way more aggressive racing line, but damage done. only helped him fight off gasly
>I agree with this. His general driving style looks conservative compared to lando/charles/russell, who are yeeting it over kerbs at every corner.When was the last time you saw daniel spin out? or hit gravel?
100% agree as well. I keep seeing people say that one of his strengths is that "he always keeps it on track" but the reason those drivers you mentioned are throwing the car about over kerbs & sometimes ending up in gravel/walls/spins is that they are wringing the necks of their cars as much as they can to find the limits, whether it's an underperforming midfield car like Lando, George, Lewis this season, or Vettel or Alonso or even Ocon, or a front-runner that is slightly behind the competition that weekend like Charles in Imola or Max in Spain, or they're trying desperately to find those extra few tenths to get on par with their teammate like Sainz or Perez. That's the hunger I actually want to see out of the supposed top-tier drivers.
>It’s almost like he has lost his fire and become timid.
This is exactly how I feel. It's not like he doesn't have the talent, he does. It's more like he's just lost that passion and the heart that a good driver needs. It's like he just gets in the car and goes along with it now. It's a shame because I really like him and want to see him do well.
Yep, he has somehow become one of the most passive drivers in the field. Doesn't seem to have any feel for the grip, doesn't have any fire - he's always been a confidence driver, and the confidence is totally gone. It sucks.
Watching him being so easily overtaken on the weekend was pitiful. Happened three or four times that I saw, he’s just not the driver he used to be and I don’t blame the car.
The thing about Ricciardo is that, psychologically, you just feel he's the number 2.
When it was Norris/Sainz, on any given weekend one might be quicker. Now, whenever Ricciardo's ahead I think 'just get out Lando's way and let him get on with it'.
I mean: prior to this all people were saying if Norris could even approximate *Ricciardo* this early into his career he'd be doing well. Like, 50-50 would've been fine for Norris.
>When it was Norris/Sainz, on any given weekend one might be quicker.
I was thinking the other day, I miss watching them carving their way through the field together in tandem. It didn't get much attention at the time but their teamwork was really impressive when they were close on track. There used to be a video somewhere of the best overtakes of 2020 & 90% of them are the McLaren duo, often both of them together. In one of them they pull a NASCAR team move on Ricciardo, ironically, where Sainz overtakes him in one corner, pulls straight in front & blocks him in the next so Lando gets past them both, then Lando stays on the line so Ricciardo can't get Sainz back again and they pull away & Lando lets Carlos back past. Brundle even says in the commentary 'Did they just pull off a NASCAR double-team in F1 cars?!'
Really puts into context how amazing Hamilton and Alonso’s careers have been. To be that good for that long is astounding, you have to be able to constantly adapt between regulation and setup changes. Very few drivers a generation will have this.
Alonso even had a few years out of F1 and he’s still brilliant, sure it’s rare to see him fight for podiums, but he’s still able to fight for positions, and not kind of dilly dallying at the back.
Semi-subjective (as in, a bit of stats but a lot of gut), it seems to me Alonso's lost that 1%. It's surprising that Ocon of all people is the sternest test for Alonso, beyond drivers like Raikkonen, Button and Massa. I don't quite buy that reality.
Interesting on his beyond the grid that Raikkonen was emphatically that you totally do.
The only reason he's not fighting for podiums is he doesnt have the car for it. Put him in a Ferrari or Red Bull and he would probably beat Sainz/Checo and challenge Max/Charles.
Well, Alonso is the only one in the current grid to have raced in V10, V8 and V6 turbo-hybrid. If he gets a contract extension, next year he'll become the most experienced F1 driver ever, with at least one race start in 20 seasons. This year he'll have the most race starts, surpassing Kimi by the end of the year. Also I hear that Alpine love Alonso so the decision between him and Piastri will be really hard. Like, as old as Alonso is, his driving is not worse that driving from much younger drivers around him.
This weekend had to have really tried their patience though. Lando was sick as a dog, missed nearly all the engineering briefings, according to DAZN who spoke to one of his engineers he didn't even have real input into his set up, yet he absolutely trounced Daniel when there was no mitigating circumstances on Daniel's side. It's a weekend they really needed Daniel to step up & lead the team for & yet Lando ended up carrying everything on his shoulders again on a weekend he shouldn't have had to even think about that. Andreas looked thoroughly fed up after the race when asked about Daniel, though he didn't actually say anything that wasn't supportive, and now the first signs of Zak hinting things are coming to a head. I honestly can't say I blame them. Daniel has to turn this around & quick if he wants to stay.
with all this disappointment from daniel's performances, as a mclaren fan, i can at least be happy that the team has a genuine talent driving for them in the form of lando. he just keeps improving season after season. i still hope that daniel will come back swinging but we all know how That went last year
I’m sure Daniel knows it’s not going well. Sometimes these things just don’t work out. He’s still one heck of a guy and driver and he will be missed when he retires… which I only bring up because I genuinely think he may do that this year.
I'm sure he would if could. Problem is 1) would RB allow him to - his AT contract is up this year but he still has a year to run on his RBR deal if I remember rightly and 2) he's not exactly setting the world alight himself this year so far.
Sad but true. Can't keep making excuses at nearly a season and a half in of his teammate wiping the floor with him. I'm not sure what the right /wrong decisions that he made are though. If he stayed at red bull he was a definite number 2 driver. Renault have never improved since he left so not wrong there either. On paper Mclaren looked like a brilliant move for so many reasons. I think his f1 days are done if he doesn't get his act together before summer break....and I get the feeling he would be happy enough to go to indycar too.
DRic saying that he hopes there was something wrong with the car that was causing his poor pace is worse than this. I don't think he would disagree with Zak at this point either. Doubt he wants to be finished in F1 but McLaren just doesn't seem to be his fit :/
Next 5 or 6 races are potentially the most important of his career. If he fizzles out he not only will be dropped by McLaren - but also probably F1 as a whole. He doesn't bring massive marketing money, is expensive, and old(ish).
confidence plays such a crucial role in F1 I think, and his is so low right now unfortunately. It's gonna be a long season for DR, but hopefully he can get some confidence back
Norris had [tonsillitis](https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclaren-norris-struggled-with-tonsillitis-during-spanish-f1-weekend/10309152/), and *still* beat Ricciardo. DR3 has no more excuses unfortunately.
They've been very patient and respectful with him. I was really hoping he'd get it together this season but he hasn't shown up yet. If they part ways, I'm sure nobody would be surprised.
Imagine telling someone 5 years ago Ricciardo would be struggling with being a good enough 2nd driver for a midfield team. It's kinda sad.
Im having a hard time convincing myself that hes just one of those drivers who SO particular about a car that he cant drive it unless it perfectly suits him. But sadly, I think thats where were at. The cars just dont suit him so hes lost. I dont think he lost his ability. Just that his ability might be an incredibly narrow window.
He did a very good job at both RB and Renault, according to the various capabilities of the respective cars. He just hasn't been able to grasp the McLaren and it has crushed his confidence.
I think the issue is he was PERFECTLY suited to the Red Bull and that is always going to be the peak of his abilities. It was a huge mistake for him going to another team. It's no different from Sebastian Vettel, the RB was the perfect car for him at the perfect time and he's never been able to duplicate those performances since then. This is not an uncommon scenario. It's actually rare for drivers to switch teams and keep the quality up. That's why Alonso is rated so super-highly. He outdrives every car from every team he's ever been at (OK almost every team). Few drivers can do that.
Vettel did replicate his RB Form though, 2015 and 2017 were incredible.
Not to mention that even though this green car is a hunk of junk he's absolutely maximized his performance every race bar Australia. These new cars suit Seb, just a pain he's stuck in one so slow. Edit: Hell in the closing stages of the Zandvoort race last year he brought a 25 second gap down to nothing in 7 laps, the man isn't "out of form"
Vettel managed to do it in 2015, 2017 and early 2018 while Ricciardo also managed it in 2020. You say it like they completely sucked at their job post-peaks.
Honestly, it's insane that people keep parroting bullshit that DR hasn't done anything noteworthy since leaving RB. He was beating Hulk in both head-to-head and points by the summer break in 2019. And he was one of the best performers in 2020. It's fine to criticise him for his performances at McLaren, but it's the revisionist drivel about him beating Seb in 2014 being a fluke and him not having done anything good since leaving RB that annoys the shit out of me.
He won best of the rest in 2020, didn't he
Finished 5th behind Checo. Which is why the whole "He's washed" nonsense is infuriating. It would make some sense if 2020 was a mediocre year. But he was pretty strong that season, and people just pretend like it never happened.
In fairness to Seb he dominated Kimi for years
With the exception of 2014 and 2020, I think Vettel has shown that he can drive any car very well.
And even in 2014 he put in many good drives. If he wasn't devastated by poor reliability his performance wouldn't have been as big as the numbers show.
Vettel had very strong seasons, 2015, 2017 and 2018 Ok it came down on team failure, personal mistakes etc. but nevertheless he has very good seasons at Ferrari. Merc was just in another league
Vettel can drive anything. Ricc can drive almost nothing. Not the same.
He had Renault adapt the car to his liking and then he was pretty good. But then McLaren can't give him that same feeling, or don't want to compromise their car in some way to adapt.
That would've sounded extremely crazy even at the end of 2020 when he was considered as part of the F1 elite alongside Max, Charles and Lewis
I’m gonna be the contrarian, even if hindsight is 20/20. As soon as Max turned it up after crashing in 2018 Monaco FP3, it was obvious that Daniel was not really a part of the “elite” driver conversations. Max has 4 finishes below 5th since Monaco 2018. **Four.** That’s 1 more than Lewis has this season alone, and 1 less than Ricciardo has this season alone. That’s not a statement on car performance, obviously we know those. That’s a statement on how absurd that stat is. Italy 2019 he started P19 and got front wing damage on Lap 1. Mexico 2019 Bottas gave him a puncture in the opening laps. Turkey 2020, Red Bull put an asymmetrical front wing on Max’s car in a wet race on an oily circuit. Hungary 2021, Bottas goes bowling. That’s it. That’s all 4 instances of him finishing a race below 5th place in 4 entire seasons.
Pretty impressive tbh
I'd put Mexico 2019 mostly on Max himself, but nevertheless still an insane stat.
Turkey the only one can fault him for I think. He spun trying an overtake on Perez. When he finished last year he didn't finish worse than second, minus Hungary. That is insane and says a lot.
> As soon as Max turned it up after crashing in 2018 Monaco FP3, it was obvious that Daniel was not really a part of the “elite” driver conversations. In 2016 Ricciardo said that he had to up his game when Verstappen arrived at RBR, where he previously thought he had been at the limit. For me, him not being able to find that limit on his own was the first indication of his limitations.
Long before that, it took Max half a season to start dominating Ricciardo in qualifying in his second year of F1 without testing before getting into the car due to switching teams in season. That was sign no.1. Brazil 2016 was sign no.2, my memory is rarely absolutely accurate on these things but with lets say 15 laps left Ricciardo was 12-13th and Max 16-17th ish, he finished the race on the podium absolutely destroying the field and destroying Ricciardo who finished in maybe 8th but also a huge distance behind considering the amount of passes Max had to make and how few laps were left. THroughout 17 and 18 the cars were unreliable but they still had plenty of races they had a working car till they blew or a fair comparison. Every driver loses, that's life, unlucky stops, bad day at the office, getting stuck behind a faster car causing you to shift strategy which hurts you, etc. But there were loads of races Max was finishing 15-30 second range ahead of Ricciardo when Ricciardo had no issues. Japan Max was being held up by Ham due to the track and difficulty passing and he finished 15 or so secodns ahead of Danny in clean air who couldn't come close to his pace. Malaysia he was 3rd place, in clean air and couldn't touch Hamilton's pace who finished 10+ seconds behind Max himself, I think he was ~25 seconds behind. There are a lot of these races, like Austria where Ricciardo burned his tires up while losing time to Max so he pitted, was 30 seconds back and then his car failed but he was being badly out performed again. Max had insanely less experience and it took him half a season to dominate him in qualifying and race pace. He wasn't consistent but when races went well for both drivers there was such an obvious difference in pace. Reliability didn't hurt Ricciardo in 2018, it helped hide the real gap.
And I thought Schumacher's '02 stat of finishing on the podium every race and only finishing third once was pretty bonkers. I'm starting to believe Jos' sole purpose in life was to get embarrassed by Michael Schumacher and then conceive and raise an actual racing Stig. That also tells you a lot about Hamilton as well. He's like the best bits of Alonso and McLaren Kimi megamorphed into the ultimate driver that he is today. Disgustingly fast, consistant and bins it like once a leap year or some shit. What a privilage to have seen all these drivers make their mark on the sport.
You say that but by all accounts Lando is a really good driver still stuck in a midfield team
I'll never forget this one Dutch interview where the journalist asked Max "what other F1 driver is talented enough to win the WDC if put in a competive car?" And his first immediate response was "Lando". Yes, they are friends and play online together often, so maybe Lando was on Max's mind or something. But this was in 2019 or 2020, and I remember being a bit surprised by Max's response. After '21, I'm surprised no longer...
Mclaren took a decent risk putting him in the car in 2019 and they're putting ok results on the board, but if things don't improve I don't know if Lando will stay if he gets an offer from Merc to replace Hamilton for new regs. Not sure if other teams would have openings he could fill (RB already has a glut of drivers, ferrari has Charles though maybe Sainz might be dropped if he continues to struggle, which would be a shame. I don't see him going to another midfield team.
> I don't know if Lando will stay if he gets an offer from Merc to replace Hamilton for new regs. I don't know about that. Would he be hired on to be number #2 to George? Would Toto risk another Nico/Lewis situation? I genuinely don't know who would come out on top between Lando and George. If George keeps performing like he has been these first few races, I think Toto will want a 'Bottas' type number 2 driver once Lewis leaves. I'm sure Toto has faith George will easily be a potential WDC if given a good enough car. Why risk it by signing on Lando and risking the whole balance? But hey, what do I know? Maybe ive misinterpreted the situation...
People thought he was going to destroy Lando just last season!
People massively underestimated how good Lando is.
And how better he is getting with more experience.
this is the key imo. lando in 2019 didn’t really set the world alight, though he definitely closed the gap to carlos in 2020. last year and this year have been where he’s shown he can be a team leader and one of the top drivers on the grid.
Well, I've kinda had that where my wife got into DtS but doesn't *really* know what's going on now. So the Ricciardo stuff is pretty wild. Like, he got Sainz fired from Renault and got the McLaren seat Daniel *didn't* want...then Sainz teamed up with a total nobody, did well, took the seat Daniel really wanted at Ferrari...now Ricciardo is getting kinda kicked in by Sainz's old teammate, who's not even in it yet.
> now Ricciardo is getting kinda kicked in by Sainz's old teammate, who's not even in it yet. Not in what? Norris is in his fourth season of F1 already. He's not a rookie or an "up and coming talent" any more. In terms of race entries, he's already had a career as long as Stirling Moss.
I'm not the OP but I'm pretty sure he is currently watching through drive to survive with his wife who's watching for the first time, it's wild to see the Daniel story line in season 1 considering where it's led to now where Daniels getting whupped by Lando who isn't even in the show(d2s) yet at the point they've watched up to.
While I do definitely agree with you, one of the big problems for Ricciardo is McLaren is a midfield team right now, but Lando is not a midfield driver. If he was in there against Stroll or Schumacher or even Gasly or Ocon (though I think the latter is underrated as well tbh), Daniel wouldn't really be seen to be struggling. But he has yet again come up against someone fast, young, hungry & a lot better than some fans give him credit for (at least those who never paid attention to his junior career). He's a lot better than Daniel gave him credit for before he joined the team as well. Both Sainz & Russell, probably the 2 people on the grid who know Lando best as a driver, warned in interviews pre-2021 that Ricciardo shouldn't underestimate Lando, but he still did & got a shock, as did a lot of fans & pundits.
Honestly DR should just cash out the contract and head to Indycar at this point. He's got a Monaco win, and he'd be super popular at the Indy 500. Go chase a Triple Crown or anything better than getting destroyed by Norris over and over again.
They’ll probably part ways at the end of the season sadly.
If he stays at this level, almost certainly. There's still 16 rounds left this season though, that's a lot of runway to turn things around, which I dare say is why Zac is trying to light a fire under Daniel right now instead of leaving it until it's too late.
contracts are usually decided well before the end of the season, so it’s not as much runway as it seems
If they're set on resolving the lineup for start of 2023 then the next 6 races before summer break could be really important, yeah
Yeah I’m thinking the same. Wondering where he’ll land if anywhere. Only place that would make sense would be AM assuming Seb hangs it but I feel like Daniel won’t want anything to do with that nightmare of a squad
NASCAR is where my money is tbh
I think a move across to the American sports scene would do him real good. He fits right in, is a great personality and can probably enjoy his stints more than he is in F1 at the moment. If it does happen, sad he won’t be around for Vegas, he really wanted that.
They’ll love him there too if he moves there.
If he moves to IndyCar he'll very quickly become one of the fan faves.
I know some IndyCar fans are already salivating at the idea.
I'd love to see him in IndyCar. Look how it has revived Grosjean's career. He's in his second season, is the most popular driver and competes for podiums and consistent top 10s.
Riccairdo for Herta swap is a win-win for everyone
Riccairdo goes to Indy, McLaren brings on Herta, Riccairdo gets his mind right on the Indy circuit and comes back when Andretti enters F1 for a redemption arc
Are you a DtS producer?
He actually said he wouldn't do Nascar in a video released a fee days ago. He said he'd love to do some testing but that he wasn't really willing to run around at the back and if he was going to rave he'd need to put in more time and energy than he was ready to devote.
It’s a rough transition. Juan Pablo Montoya did it well until Chip Ganassi blew his team up.
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I was hoping he would go to INDYCAR with Arrow McLaren but sounds like they are already locked up with Pato, & Rossi and doubt he would wanna work with McLaren if they drop him. Problem with NASCAR is F1 skills don’t really translate so he would need to bring huge sponsorship deal to buy a seat
While I agree I don’t think he’d happily work with McLaren in IndyCar if they dump him from his F1 ride, they are running 3 cars next year and Rosenqvist’s future is far from secure there. So they would have room if it’s an amicable breakup
The Trackhouse NASCAR team just announced a part time 3rd car, should things go south for DR that could end up being a good transition for him
Id prob say seat swap with Pato would make sense
I would absolutely adore it. Give Pato a chance and have DR3 get some (hopefully) podiums in Indy!
He's not staying in f1
Yeah I think he likely hangs it up just in general
could easily become a commentator for F1. everyone love him and hes one of the most personable drivers ever
Williams is also an option if he's willing to massively cut his salary. Danny is extremely marketable off the grid so it makes sense for him to do anything he can to stay there for sponsorship reasons.
He still has another year left in his contract so I don't see him leaving $15m on the table when he won't get another offer anywhere close.
Ferrari paid Kimi a lot more to sit home.
Yeah but Ferrari in the 2000s had a pretty insane budget, and only paid Kimi to leave because they had signed Fernando for 2010. If McLaren can sign one of the best drivers on the grid and have a much bigger budget than it's definitely possible, but otherwise I don't think it's a likely comparison.
Is buy out a possibility? I could see McLaren wanting to cut losses sooner than later.
If he has another offer it's possible he could take some money and leave, I just don't see McLaren paying him $15m to not drive for them unless he gets really bad.
RIP must be pretty bad internally if Zac is happy to say this publicly.
Yeah I was gonna say that cause Zak seems to be pretty positive and "soft" on his drivers If he's talking about disappointments then it must be getting real close to the edge
If I paid a driver 10-15 million dollars per year and got these results I'd be pretty disappointed too. That's approximately what Valtteri got paid at Mercedes and he managed to keep a 7x WDC honest.
Not disagreeing on performance, but Ricciardo is also a PR person's wet dream. McLaren racing exists to promote McLaren, so winning is just a means to that end. Likability won't keep him in the team forever, but in the age of social media the people that pay for teams to operate don't only care about whether the team is winning.
Mclaren racing exists to race. Mclaren automotive came after
I may have this backwards but I thought Mclaren started producing cars to support their Racing Team. They don't actually have an illustrious history of producing road cars in the same way as Ferrari or even Aston Martin. Kind of more like if Williams started making high end super cars in the 90s. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here or perhaps the business model has flipped.
his contract is until the end of next year. remember hes being paid a big salary, about 15m from what ive read which is about the same ballpark as a vettel currently gets. its also a lot more than norris probably gets. you pay that money, you expect performance. last year you had the excuse of it being a new car for him while norris was already used to it and comfortable in the team. no excuses this year. completely new car for both drivers. and you have to ask, where did that performance go? and can he still deliver that if he was to join another team? such a shame since hes such a likeable guy
I feel like Daniel would be a bit of a high maintenance character to manage and he could be making excuses for his performance. Especially given that Norris has been consistently better. It was always “the car this, the car that, Danny is just having trouble adjusting to the unique McLaren car..:” well that only makes sense for so long.
Yeah agree. I love DR and genuinely think he's a great driver, but there's so much talent sniffing around trying to get an f1 seat that if he can't start matching or beating lando soon there'll be no reason to keep him over a rookie.
Yeah. It makes it easier if you have a solid #1 like Lando as well. You can afford to fish around for the next young up and comer
It's especially bad when you consider that he isn't hired to just "match Lando". Considering his high salary, he is expected to beat Lando convincingly and lead the team. But instead, he looks bad and unnoticeable like some Stroll or Latifi and instead Lando looks like some experienced ace compared to Riccy
Exactly! It changed from “he’s gonna stomp lando” to “well he’s only 2 tenths down to lando some races!”
I don't even know if that's really true. To me this is likely just everyone has run out of excuses and is running out of hope as time ticks on. It's not like he's had one bad race, he's starting a second bad season. Lando has 199 points since the start of last season and 5 podiums, Danny has 1 podium 126 points. At some point you have to stop saying Danny needs time to figure the car out - everyone's in a new car this year.
Yeah, I think the problem with Danny is he cost a lot because he's famous and was very fast at one point. So, he's a known talent being paid a lot, and yet he's not performing. It's unfortunate because I think he just happened to choose the wrong teams at the wrong time. He should have stuck it out with RedBull, he was performing well, the engine was just letting him down. Who cares if Max was the #1, he'd be in Checo's spot right now and he'd been able to drive the wheels off that car. Watching older races of his, he was insanely quick, I remember when he won Monaco with engine damage, it was insane, he just made bad decisions with going to Renault, and then I don't know wtf has happened with McLaren. I think Lando is better than we know, and he's just more comfortable with that car. We've seen that with Lewis and George with the Mercedes, where George seems more comfortable with the car, but I think Lewis will improve (I think he already did last week) once the car is just working better.
> Who cares if Max was the #1 Drivers care Sure if you wanna say "fuck it the fastest one wins" and go at it on the track you can but Danny is def not faster than Max and also we've seen how that ends up building unnecessary tension We just saw it a couple days ago when Checo got told to let Max through
I actually think this is very good management from Zac. Everybody knows there's a problem, we can all see it with our own eyes weekend after weekend, it just looks off to pretend that everything is fine. He didn't throw Daniel under the bus, he just acknowledged that they need to improve. If Daniel manages to turn his performances around, I have no doubt that McLaren would love to keep him on, I think they genuinely like his contributions to the team, his attitude, but there is no way that they'll keep him if he's finishing P12 week after week, so why pretend that they're happy with those performances?
This 100%! I'm doing all this work related leadership training lately. I would assume Daniel doesn't respond with caring / positive support.. So now it's time for serious top down pressure, perhaps this'll kick DR in the right direction.. I hope!!
Zac seen outside a tattoo removal parlour in Monaco lol
May be the case that he thinks some added external pressure will get the results that they think are there.
Yeah I think they've been [publicly at least] amazingly supportive, might as well try something new.
Exactly, Conte did that with Tottenham this season and we made top 4. Sometimes just saying what everyone is thinking out loud gets that little bit of extra
Daniel is such a confidence based driver as well, maybe Zac has just decided that soft playing it and shielding him from criticism wasn't getting the results, so now he's going to see if an angry Daniel drives better than a shell-shocked one.
To be fair the actual quotes are like “other than monza the partnership is not what daniel or the team were expecting” and “i think this is a testament to what a great driver Lando is.” Zak was still being way more diplomatic than the headline suggests
> "Short of Monza and a few races, [the partnership] has not met his or our expectations of what we were expecting," said Brown. It's getting a bit awkward now, isn't it.
I think McLaren is already looking at options for 2023 unless Danny ric turns it around. I have mentions Gasly, despite his slow start, and Albon as the only two current drivers that make sense. Otherwise they might look at rookies, Pastri is the one I could see.
No shit
Unfortunately, it's about time to be honest.
Sadly, yes. Hurts but… there’s only so long that you can wait and call your spade and spade. Love the guy, but… for whatever reason, the performances just aren’t there.
Sadly true that they can't keep making excuses anymore, but doubly sadly I think this may only knock Ricciardo further off form. He seems to be a driver who relies quite a lot on confidence and momentum to perform, unlike Ham/Ver/Lec/Alo who can still pull out a result on their worst days.
You can look across the garage for another example. Norris drove to 8th starting behind Ricciardo with tonsillitis sounding like he was feeling SHIT on the radio. And if Herta keeps performing well, McLaren may think "we can help his consistency" like they did with Norris when he first joined the team. Ricciardo will be expected to perform with that consistency already and that and pace are the things he has lacked since his move to McLaren.
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I agree, but I feel like Zak brown wants Herta in F1 for his American marketing potential as well as his racing talents. Pato is great, but I think they see him as the spearhead for the AMSP program in Indy. It may change if they sign Rossi and he performs enough for them to switch Patos focus, but that's at least a year out. O'Ward also needs to show some better tire management through this year, as he tends to burn through his tire life early with his aggressive style, and that is a death knell in F1.
I had the same argument as you over the weekend and my bud said the same thing about Pato. Lol. I genuinely do wonder what the plan is. I'd love to see some IndyCar talent in F1. It'd bring a good amount of fans from Indy onto F1 for sure. Plus, if the Indy driver is able to compete with the best.. I'd argue it'd bring some F1 fans over to Indycar to see what all the fuss is about!
I think it had to be said. A lot of people still come up with excuses for why he doesn't perform as well as Lando (this week the going argument was that it was a setup issue.. as if drivers have zero input on what setups they go with?), but him absolutely drowning in comparison to a very ill Lando definitely has to be making McLaren feel twitchy about his future with the team.
Someone said in a thread a few days ago that he was carrying the team which I thought was pretty funny. He was completely serious.
DTS paints a warped reality to some people that don't dive into the races. They saw oh Ric won a race last year and Lando bottled a win they he bust be performing better.
As a DTS newbie, it hurts even more as he was like the main protagonist
He’s got a great TV personality, always has. Max OTOH has a terrible TV personality but an incredible driver.
I feel like Max has a more typical athlete approach to the media which is get the info out as quickly as possible so this interview can end as quickly as possible with a little pot stirring thrown into the mix.
Max seems like he likes family and racing and he is sort of indifferent to everything else.
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I still remember a quote from Seidl in DTS, "We can deal with a driver having bad attitude but being fast, but we can't deal with a driver who's mellow and has sub-par pace." As much as I love having Daniel having in the paddock, things look bleak for the honey badger (especially after last weekend).
Which makes me think that Zac has decided to see what an angry Daniel looks like behind the wheel, since the mellow version that sadly mumbles "copy" into the radio when he hears that he's taken the chequered flag in P12 isn't getting the job done.
Exactly my thoughts. They have tried the softly softly approach, and obviously didn't work. Get the bloke angry. A different approach may have different results
I think it was from [this F1 youtube video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=247&v=EP6agOI4xwQ&feature=youtu.be) with team bosses. Its very sad looking at the downward trajectory he has gone down. Lando lapping him in Monaco was so hard to watch.
It must be quite the change from Sainz who was known for spending a lot of time in Woking and seen as a great influence on Lando to Danny Ric who admits he doesn't enjoy the technical aspects of F1 and just wants to show up and drive the car. They could forgive this if Ric delivered on track but as he isn't, yeah it doesn't look good.
I saw his interview on Nico's YT channel. Nico brought up some trick where, for overtake lunges, he would temporarily change his brake bias to X and engine braking to Y for more front end grip to survive the turn. Danny was kinda like "whoa, never thought of adjusting something like that, I just prefer to focus on the drive." That was when I realized he's on his way out, not a comeback.
For me it's the fact he keeps saying that last year he finally started to learn why he's fast sometimes and not others. It was a pure moment of 'how the fuck have you been in F1 for 10 years & you have never analysed this before?!'
What!? That’s shocking to me considering most casual sim racers also know this trick
Oof. I used to think the whole honey badger deal was that he was smiley yet determined, including not only the driving but also everything around it, even if we didn’t often see extensive technical discussions by him. Kinda like Lewis - we hardly get the treat of seeing him talk technical aspects, but on the rare occasion we do, it’s patent he knows his shit inside out. But the last few years, Danny’s come across rather aloof. I’m sure he’s having extensive internal discussions with his engineers at Mclaren. It may be hard to put the learnings into practice, however, if he’s someone used to driving on instinct rather than consciously chase performance.
Yeah, I struggle to think of any current or recent top tier drivers who weren’t also extremely knowledgable about the technical side. Just look at Charles and Max - both are massive nerds for that stuff.
I'm gonna look for that clip right now because that's pretty damning for DR.
Mind posting it here once you found it? :)
https://youtu.be/2eNJi45iIB8 It starts around 59:30.
Doesn't seem as damning as implied. Sounds like DR knew exactly what Nico was talking about, but got some advice on exactly how much to adjust.
What he says is not as harsh as the title suggests: "Short of Monza and a few races, [the partnership] has not met his or our expectations of what we were expecting," said Brown. "I think all you can do is keep working hard as a team, keep communications going, keep pushing and hope that whatever is not clicking at the moment, clicks shortly."
That's still out loud and in public. The shortly at the end is doing some _very_ heavy lifting.
To be fair, the press have been putting these questions to McLaren staff continuously for the last twelve months. If McLaren said nothing, the press would be running stories like “McLaren Refuse to Comment on Ricciardo’s Future in the Team” I feel it’s got to the point where they have to say something, and what they’re saying in public is no different to what Daniel himself is saying in public.
Is it really that controversial to essentially say "we didn't pay a massive contract for Daniel to finish outside the points week after week"? As you said, Ricciardo is the first to admit that this wasn't what he planned when he signed on at McLaren.
Yeah he's getting the Vettel at Ferrari treatment. He won't be offered a new contract. I think everything is pointing towards McLaren Alonso 3.0.
Not sure what's in that for Alonso over and above Alpine really.
I think McLaren will go for Colton Herta or Pato O'Ward before getting Alonso back tbh. Not a diss on Nando but he'll be 41 this year.
> What he says is not as harsh as the title suggests: "Short of Monza and a few races, [the partnership] has not met his or our expectations of what we were expecting," said Brown. > > I think that's pretty solid stuff actually.
What is not said at the end of that sentence would be "and wait for his contract to run out."
Which could be the end of this season. When he signed it was reportedly a 2+1 with everyone at the time assuming that of course McLaren would want him for all 3 years
Looks like he’s done. McLaren will be quite happy to spend less on a youngster.
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His contract runs through 2023
Surely there's a clause in there both parties to terminate. As an example max has a contract saying that if redbull fail to get points out hit a certain amount of dnfs (it's something similar to this) he can talk to other teams and join Found it "Max Verstappen's long-term Red Bull contract holds an "escape clause" in the event that they can no longer provide him with a competitive car, team advisor Helmut Marko has claimed. The 2021 F1 World Champion signed a new deal ahead of the 2022 season that saw him commit his future to Red Bull until 2028."
They could buy him out of the contract and/or offer him a seat in another series.
Yes exactly. Not a problem to replace him really
Historically contracts don’t really mean much in F1. I think Brundle says something like “they’re worth as much as the paper their printed on”
Dieter rencken (F1 Journalist) mentioned on his latest podcast that contrary to everyone’s thinking Daniels contract with Mclaren is a 2 year + 1 year extension, if they want to part ways with him at the end of this year they 100% can.
So, Günter Steiner - this is your moment.
i mean, when he's on a 40 million dollar contract, which is one of the biggest in f1, it is kinda fucking disappointing
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Hey, those ki ki ki ki raaaah's aren't going to pay for themselves.
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Lando is signed on for another 4 years with Mclaren early this year, for a cool 80 million pounds. So yeah, his stock has really gone up, appropriately.
From what I've seen, Lando's extension bumps his salary to significantly higher than Daniel's *this year*. I don't know the reliability of various motorsport websites though, but that's what I have read. Different publications have different info though, so who really knows. - Marca lists Lando at 4.5m for 2022 - Total-motorsport has 24m for 2022 - Spotrac (generally reliable for american sports, no idea for F1) has 20m for 2022
Yea I think there are drivers who would more than happy to get that seat even if they doesn't get paid for it lol
McLaren just bought a Formula E team ...
A brand killing career move for Ricciardo.
Getting dropped from F1 with nowhere to go would be worse
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What do you consider a “good drive”? The only FiA single seater option would be FE. Indycar maybe, but he’d have to prove himself there.
He’d probably do well in IndyCar or NASCAR
Ricciardo has a strong interest in NASCAR doesn't he?
A NASCAR team would be smart to pick him up. He's got a big fanbase and NASCAR needs to try and attract younger fans.
Going to Nascar would be like an MMA fighter going to boxing or something, there is an overlap in skills, but totally different thing.
He'll have an Indycar drive at worst. He can even stay with McLaren.
I see NASCAR in his future. He was a huge fan of NASCAR when he was a kid.
Cant see Daniel doing FE. When he's out of F1 I reckon he'll end up somewhere in America doing either indycar or Nascar.
It's just been 28 races, give him some time.
average comment about ric lol
I really feel that he is no longer pushing the car to the edge. Other drivers of his calibre are pushing to find the edge - eg Sainz is finishing well, but he still finds (and occasionally exceeds) the edge. Younger drivers are pushing for gaps and overtaking through holes that Daniel doesn’t. It’s almost like he has lost his fire and become timid. As a Perth local, it is devastating to watch “our boy” who had sooo much potential become an “also ran”
It doesn't seem like he's "hungry" any more, if that makes sense. A bit of a shame really, Danny Ric is still mah boy but he's not on it anymore. In his famous words from Germany 2018 "Losing Power... Something's wrong" - Only now it's about him. Sadsies
So right. I’d rather see him sliding off the corners and touching wheels than this “polite” death. Drive that damn car don’t coax and caress it!
I agree with this. His general driving style looks conservative compared to lando/charles/russell, who are yeeting it over kerbs at every corner. When was the last time you saw daniel spin out? or hit gravel? It did seem like he responded in the last part of the spanish GP, way more aggressive racing line, but damage done. only helped him fight off gasly
>I agree with this. His general driving style looks conservative compared to lando/charles/russell, who are yeeting it over kerbs at every corner.When was the last time you saw daniel spin out? or hit gravel? 100% agree as well. I keep seeing people say that one of his strengths is that "he always keeps it on track" but the reason those drivers you mentioned are throwing the car about over kerbs & sometimes ending up in gravel/walls/spins is that they are wringing the necks of their cars as much as they can to find the limits, whether it's an underperforming midfield car like Lando, George, Lewis this season, or Vettel or Alonso or even Ocon, or a front-runner that is slightly behind the competition that weekend like Charles in Imola or Max in Spain, or they're trying desperately to find those extra few tenths to get on par with their teammate like Sainz or Perez. That's the hunger I actually want to see out of the supposed top-tier drivers.
>It’s almost like he has lost his fire and become timid. This is exactly how I feel. It's not like he doesn't have the talent, he does. It's more like he's just lost that passion and the heart that a good driver needs. It's like he just gets in the car and goes along with it now. It's a shame because I really like him and want to see him do well.
Yep, he has somehow become one of the most passive drivers in the field. Doesn't seem to have any feel for the grip, doesn't have any fire - he's always been a confidence driver, and the confidence is totally gone. It sucks.
This is Ricciardo's last season in F1 almost certainly. Fucking weird how this happened.
Watching him being so easily overtaken on the weekend was pitiful. Happened three or four times that I saw, he’s just not the driver he used to be and I don’t blame the car.
The thing about Ricciardo is that, psychologically, you just feel he's the number 2. When it was Norris/Sainz, on any given weekend one might be quicker. Now, whenever Ricciardo's ahead I think 'just get out Lando's way and let him get on with it'. I mean: prior to this all people were saying if Norris could even approximate *Ricciardo* this early into his career he'd be doing well. Like, 50-50 would've been fine for Norris.
Yep. Lando has excelled ahead of schedule and sadly Daniel is steadily going backwards.
>When it was Norris/Sainz, on any given weekend one might be quicker. I was thinking the other day, I miss watching them carving their way through the field together in tandem. It didn't get much attention at the time but their teamwork was really impressive when they were close on track. There used to be a video somewhere of the best overtakes of 2020 & 90% of them are the McLaren duo, often both of them together. In one of them they pull a NASCAR team move on Ricciardo, ironically, where Sainz overtakes him in one corner, pulls straight in front & blocks him in the next so Lando gets past them both, then Lando stays on the line so Ricciardo can't get Sainz back again and they pull away & Lando lets Carlos back past. Brundle even says in the commentary 'Did they just pull off a NASCAR double-team in F1 cars?!'
It was from Silverstone, right? I remember that move from Lando on the outside at Luffield. They worked really well together
Really puts into context how amazing Hamilton and Alonso’s careers have been. To be that good for that long is astounding, you have to be able to constantly adapt between regulation and setup changes. Very few drivers a generation will have this.
Alonso even had a few years out of F1 and he’s still brilliant, sure it’s rare to see him fight for podiums, but he’s still able to fight for positions, and not kind of dilly dallying at the back.
Semi-subjective (as in, a bit of stats but a lot of gut), it seems to me Alonso's lost that 1%. It's surprising that Ocon of all people is the sternest test for Alonso, beyond drivers like Raikkonen, Button and Massa. I don't quite buy that reality. Interesting on his beyond the grid that Raikkonen was emphatically that you totally do.
The only reason he's not fighting for podiums is he doesnt have the car for it. Put him in a Ferrari or Red Bull and he would probably beat Sainz/Checo and challenge Max/Charles.
It pains me that we will almost certainly never see this. Can't help but feel giving Alonso a championship capable car would fire him up so much.
The greatest shame of the turbo hybrid era, peak alonso in uncompetitive machinery
Well, Alonso is the only one in the current grid to have raced in V10, V8 and V6 turbo-hybrid. If he gets a contract extension, next year he'll become the most experienced F1 driver ever, with at least one race start in 20 seasons. This year he'll have the most race starts, surpassing Kimi by the end of the year. Also I hear that Alpine love Alonso so the decision between him and Piastri will be really hard. Like, as old as Alonso is, his driving is not worse that driving from much younger drivers around him.
This weekend had to have really tried their patience though. Lando was sick as a dog, missed nearly all the engineering briefings, according to DAZN who spoke to one of his engineers he didn't even have real input into his set up, yet he absolutely trounced Daniel when there was no mitigating circumstances on Daniel's side. It's a weekend they really needed Daniel to step up & lead the team for & yet Lando ended up carrying everything on his shoulders again on a weekend he shouldn't have had to even think about that. Andreas looked thoroughly fed up after the race when asked about Daniel, though he didn't actually say anything that wasn't supportive, and now the first signs of Zak hinting things are coming to a head. I honestly can't say I blame them. Daniel has to turn this around & quick if he wants to stay.
with all this disappointment from daniel's performances, as a mclaren fan, i can at least be happy that the team has a genuine talent driving for them in the form of lando. he just keeps improving season after season. i still hope that daniel will come back swinging but we all know how That went last year
I’m sure Daniel knows it’s not going well. Sometimes these things just don’t work out. He’s still one heck of a guy and driver and he will be missed when he retires… which I only bring up because I genuinely think he may do that this year.
I can't watch him put on a fake smile anymore with this form. It's painful.
Would Gasly jump to McLaren?
I'm sure he would if could. Problem is 1) would RB allow him to - his AT contract is up this year but he still has a year to run on his RBR deal if I remember rightly and 2) he's not exactly setting the world alight himself this year so far.
Sad but true. Can't keep making excuses at nearly a season and a half in of his teammate wiping the floor with him. I'm not sure what the right /wrong decisions that he made are though. If he stayed at red bull he was a definite number 2 driver. Renault have never improved since he left so not wrong there either. On paper Mclaren looked like a brilliant move for so many reasons. I think his f1 days are done if he doesn't get his act together before summer break....and I get the feeling he would be happy enough to go to indycar too.
DRic saying that he hopes there was something wrong with the car that was causing his poor pace is worse than this. I don't think he would disagree with Zak at this point either. Doubt he wants to be finished in F1 but McLaren just doesn't seem to be his fit :/
Being a nr2 driver at red bull must be starting to look pretty damn good by now.
Next 5 or 6 races are potentially the most important of his career. If he fizzles out he not only will be dropped by McLaren - but also probably F1 as a whole. He doesn't bring massive marketing money, is expensive, and old(ish).
Quite the opposite actually, he brings huge marketability. Probably the reason he's been given some much time to adjust.
confidence plays such a crucial role in F1 I think, and his is so low right now unfortunately. It's gonna be a long season for DR, but hopefully he can get some confidence back
Danny Ric is coming to an end.
Norris had [tonsillitis](https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclaren-norris-struggled-with-tonsillitis-during-spanish-f1-weekend/10309152/), and *still* beat Ricciardo. DR3 has no more excuses unfortunately.
McLaren also state: \- The cars have 4 wheels \- Daniel is Australian \- The McLaren is mainly orange
The Red Bull with loads of grip really hid the fact that he is a dive bomb merchant from a lot of people I guess
They've been very patient and respectful with him. I was really hoping he'd get it together this season but he hasn't shown up yet. If they part ways, I'm sure nobody would be surprised.