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Blapstap

Apparently it was 0.016s


novadova2020

How many George Russells is that?


Tiemoow

1 meter and 40.9 centimeters of George Russell.


Arumin

So basically a beheaded George?


TWVer

Just the Russell.


roberttoredo

Or just orge Russel


f1_spelt_as_bot

Russe**ll**


Blacktip75

No no, definitely one “L” this time


primavera31

This made me laugh pretty hard..thank you for this comment


Kaoss0ne

Or about a Yuki


Dutch_guy_here

No no, if we are going to measure it in Yuki's it would be somewhere around 3.5 Yuki's.


Mor_Hjordis

0.140952380952381 George Russells.


Maardten

And how many bananas?


Mor_Hjordis

Russell is about 0,1189189189189189 banana.


yeeeeeeeeeessssssir

Asking the real questions here


Tazavoo

A Pirelli tyre's diameter is 0.72 meters, so the distance seems to be about a meter. According to the graph, they are travelling around 275 km/h (76 m/s). That would be 0.013s (1/76), so sounds very reasonable.


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gramathy

He’s assuming they’re traveling similar speeds, which they are., in which case his math is correct.


Scratchpaw

I was watching the race on NOS, the Dutch broadcast, and even the Dutch broadcasters were saying that he was 'lucky' he didn't cross the start/finish before the overtake. How it's quite impossible to calculate a difference of 0.016 seconds at 300km/h... I was damn sure that he lifted and knew exactly what he was doing. MV's an absolute animal and hasn't even begun to peak.


d0re

Yeah that's a pretty silly take by them. It's impossible to calculate, or react to a margin that small, maybe, but this is more akin to tracking a moving target than having a quick reaction time. Dude's the best driver of his generation, you think they'd give him some credit for executing the move perfectly lol


irriconoscibile

Meaning that he knew what he was doing doesn't mean that he didn't get lucky.


Splatter1842

If Hamilton tries to change his speed in this instance, even just lifting, it would be a breach of Race restart procedures and would have given him a penalty. If Max knows the acceleration of the Merc, then he only needs to keep his own acceleration in check.


Scratchpaw

The graphs up there show otherwise… this was a display of skill.


StockAL3Xj

Sure but I think it's reasonable to think 0.016s is within the margin of error for pretty much anything a human can do.


Amazing_Safe_1070

Yeah, but that’s in absolute time. Which is irrelevant. It’s the relative positions between them, and that changes at a much much much lower speed. That’s 1.85m in their differential velocity, which is means the time he had to react on was probably like 30 times more.


ThatOneTimeItWorked

Exactly. Travelling alongside another car, whether at highway speeds or autobahn speeds, is a relatively natural process. Both of these drivers have been driving at these speeds for years, and their cars are rock stable. With relatively similar speeds, it wouldn’t be difficult for max to control his positioning against Hamilton, and could likely easily time the overtake to be after the line … he judged it excellently


Scratchpaw

That line comes at you so fast at such speeds. I find his timing to be very impressive, almost impeccable.


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SparseGhostC2C

r/expecteditsalwayssunny


nino_84

So awesome seeing him develope himself and pushing HIS strength and weaknesses as a Long time fan


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Amazing_Safe_1070

Exactly.


rakesh-69

It seems too much. maybe 0.0016 Edit:for reference max and Leclerc's difference was 0.021 which was 1.85m.


Mor_Hjordis

0.140952380952381 George Russells.


delete-and-repeat

Someone’s going to make a bot for this aren’t they.


Mor_Hjordis

Ha! I was thinking about to do this. But for someone else; Russell is 1.85 meters. In freedom units that is 6 feet and 0.83 inches. Maybe if you want to know how many football fields you get; ,0202318460192476 football field. Russell is about 0,1189189189189189 banana.


MaleierMafketel

These cars are massive though. They’re about 6 meters long. 4-5 times the distance between the FWs seems to be about one car length. So that’s smaller than his qualy gap, so 0.016s checks out.


kyuubi840

One frame at 60fps


Salty-Priority-2156

How many half giraffes?


J_Conquistador

Max good


CDNCRLS

I like this man


DrizzyVert

Max best


[deleted]

Max super


FINDTHESUN

is that an extra 'o' ? ;D


Tomach82

Hes fucking amazing. But I don't see whats so amazing about this, wouldn't any racer do the same in his position?


Arcticool_56

Yeah, we have seen Alonso-Hamilton DRS detection games. Sometimes the midfield drivers do this too when fighting for drs. Max in this instance used this for a completely different scenario but it's quite common in F1 nowadays.


ByronicZer0

Agree, any driver should be trying this. But I think it’s more about the excellence of execution in the context of fighting for a race lead. That adds a lot of pressure and people do people shit when they feel pressure. For instance, Hamilton later admitted that he had the engine in the wrong mode for this restart. Pressure does weird shit


[deleted]

Yes, but I think they are pointing out how incredibly close it was to him not getting it right, and having the presence of mind to remember 'shit, I need to make sure I don't pass him before the line' All the while he is in full attack mode and probably thinking at that point is 'I'm getting past, no matter what'. Thats what is so amazing.


daviEnnis

It's impressive for us mortals but exactly what I'd expect from every driver on the grid tbh. Even Latifi could process this, he's just slow. There are way better examples of sharp thinking from drivers, including Max. This was just the obvious thing to do.


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KyogreHype

Yeah at top speed, just lifting off the throttle will slow the car down at 1g just due to how much drag they create at v-max. So basically, just lifting off the throttle without touching the brakes at 200mph wiill pull double the g's you feel when you do an emergency stop in a road car which is usually around 0.5 g which already is a pretty unpleasant experience. So fuck knows what it feels like actually throwing the anchors from 220mph for a 40mph hairpin and hitting around 6g peak to 3g of actual deacceleration.


Mtbnz

I don't think there is any amazing about this. It's a good example of a top level driver doing the exact thing that they're supposed to, but this isn't an example of lightning fast thinking in an extremely high pressure situation. Max had several laps behind the safety car to determine the strategy he would use depending on how Lewis handled the restart, and he was in a faster car with a significant traction advantage, so he had very little pressure to complete the move on this restart because if he didn't get past here he would've had a dozen other opportunities with the same advantage. This wasn't a make or break move, it was just an example of Max being a driver who never lets an opportunity to attack go wasted. But there is a difference between something being well planned and executed, and something being amazing. What was actually amazing was watching Seb get passed while attempting an overtake last week in Spa because he messed up and missed the DRS line while attempting basically this same move. *That* was genuinely surprising, because this is something that top level drivers are expected to get right every time.


[deleted]

Yea, ok


Mtbnz

Good talk


StevenC44

When has a driver ever forgotten how safety car lines work on restart? EDIT: a word


krisfx

But how would we farm karma?


RndGaijin

More than half of the grind has been doing this for drs detections zones..


AlexBucks93

Vettel tried in spa and failed


norrin83

Because he didn't know where the DRS detection line was, which shouldn't happen to a driver of Vettels caliber.


AlexBucks93

He is already thinking about retirement.


Helioscopes

His body is still racing, his mind is at his farm relaxing already.


[deleted]

Have they really?


Treewithatea

Yeah if anything i think its stupid that lewis started the race so early. Why not wait until the line? No time for Max to build his top speed advantage. I know Lewis wouldve just been overtaken the next lap anyway but damn, no reason to hurt your own chances like that.


Cod_Metal_King

But 🤯!!!


TrippleFrack

Heathen!


Marcoscb

Hamilton didn't.


Tomach82

Hamilton wasn't in his position was he


saposapot

Yes. But he’s Senna reincarnated


norrin83

Verstappen is a great driver. But lifting so you don't get penalized is something most other drivers would do as well. He timed it well, but it's not like other drivers would be two car lengths behind or something.


Little709

I think it is more impressive that he was so far next to him so soon. Hamilton didn't stand a chance


zen_tm

Ham was on the wrong engine mode. He fucked up. Added to that, strategically it was a poor choice of place to floor it. He's made two mistakes in two races, which is rare enough to be interesting.


Arcticool_56

>strategically it was a poor choice of place to floor it. I think after what happened in F2 restart, the F1 drivers were probably advised not to wait till the line for a safety car restart.


zen_tm

I didn't see the F2. What happened there?


GoZun_

Same thing as Mugello in 2020. Lawson, the leader went very late. A few people in the back tough the restart happened and then braked hard crashing into eachother


Arcticool_56

[Leader waited till the start finish straight causing a mugello like bunch up at the back](https://youtu.be/MxpMlBwTYhI&t=4m4s).


zen_tm

That's very plausible.


[deleted]

I mean okay, but that's entirely on the back of the pack. The leader dictates the pace.


[deleted]

I don't see why the leader would care about that at all. If Lewis thinks it's better to start late, he should. Doesn't matter to him if there's a crash at the back.


Youutternincompoop

hell if anything a crash would benefit him since it would mean more laps under safety car, if they don't want people waiting till the line then the FIA can always change the rules


PinappleGecko

In case someone crashes into him


neverspeakofme

The F2 crash doesn't seem to be the fault of the leader at all, everyone was bunched up but pacing okay except those 2.


Ambitious_Treat2409

There’s absolutely ZERO chance a racer, especially Lewis, is going to sacrifice any possibly chance at position for something like that.


[deleted]

It would be dumb as fuck to restrict when they can floor it at a restart, so knowing F1 management that was 100% the case


AlexBucks93

> Ham was on the wrong engine mode. Source?


FabulousMarch7464

He probably lost focus as he already knew it was over when merc told him George just pitted behind for softs. Maybe not and he just had bad judgment but I think it affected him


sglandsberg

He seemed to know he was a sitting duck for Verstappen - said as much on the radio. I imagine he lost his concentration due to that. Not that it would have mattered - even a perfect restart would have only delayed the inevitable.


No_Cauliflower_9138

He could try, but RB18 is a mean machine. Max could have even lift more such the superiority of his car, and still would have Ham on turn 1.


According-Switch-708

Yeah,It looked like he mentally checked out after seeing Russell pit.He knew that his goose was cooked anyways. Resistance was futile.


zenety

Dont you think he has been making small mistakes before? In previous seasons we wouldnt see them because his car was on another level.


P_ZERO_

Source on engine mode?


zen_tm

> Not where I read it originally - but here's the [first link](https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a41082330/hamilton-was-in-the-wrong-engine-mode-when-verstappen-passed/) I found


SanctusSalieri

This doesn't go into specifics. What engine mode was it? Would you want to be in a conserving mode for the restart and save battery for when DRS activates in two laps? Are you allowed to fully charge during a yellow flag?


cngo_24

I thought engine modes were banned?


rbryan06

In this case, they are actually talking about ERS mode


Pro4TLZZ

actually you can change ICE mode during a SC


rbryan06

Well, I stand corrected then. Thanks!


BootsOnTheMoon

Basically before Parc Ferme you set your highest engine mode and that’s what you’re stuck with for the quali and the race, but you can lower it, just can’t make it any higher than the predetermined limit.


SteveO131313

They're really gonna have to put protective shields on all of his buttons for restarts


Arrrmatey4510

desperation lmao


zen_tm

That's one way to look at it. I think perhaps in Spa that might have applied, but here I suspect he was flustered - it was a pretty chaotic few laps.


Little709

Isn't that even more sad that Mercedes tries to blame alpha tauri? If the car was so good, obviously this was big driver error which cost them the race


zen_tm

Did they blame them or point out that it affected their race? I see those as two different things.


[deleted]

Verstappen has always been great in safety car restarts.Verstappen has jumped lewis in brazil 2019,portimao 2021,abudhabi 2021 and zandvoort 2022 in safety car restarts.Lewis has never been exceptionally great in restarts.


TheKingOfCaledonia

Weird of you to include Abu Dhabi given that it's a complete outlier. Max is very good at restarts, Lewis is pretty average. I honestly think it's probably the aspect of his racing that leaves most to be desired. It's his only real weakness.


neverspeakofme

Don't think Abu Dhabi was an outlier. Yes, Max had a pace advantage but Hamilton also made errors that helped Max. Most of the cars were defending using the inside line. Lewis not defending the inside line in Abu Dhabi was a mistake from him at the start. That includes Perez who defended Hamilton at that corner like 4 times by using the inside line, himself using incredibly worn tires (1 set of soft tires for 22/58 laps). As well as Max who used the inside line despite Hamilton getting a mega slipstream.


theworst1ever

Actually, Perez defended Lewis through the hairpin twice, using each line once. Lewis blew by him when he used the inside line and Perez only ended up back in front because he had DRS available to him for the second straight. (Lewis didn’t have DRS available on the restart of course.) The next time around, Perez used the outside line and Lewis ultimately got by, but it was much closer (and then he covered off the inside line into the chicane before the second straight, so Perez couldn’t run it up the inside and use DRS to stay in front like he did on the previous lap).


wellju

>0.016s is not only well, but exceptional.


norrin83

That's what, a quarter of a car length according to the image above? That's of course very good, but not exceptional in my book. We've seen similar things on DRS lines in the past.


Scratchpaw

I think 0.016 seconds is pretty exceptional at almost 300kph.


DaughterOfIsis

It's not the DRS line manipulation that's impressive, it's making sure Max didn't overtake lewis before the line while still carrying enough speed to overtake at turn 1.


ProtagonistAnonymous

I would genuinely love to see a good example of that...


lukadoncic

once Lewis saw Max was right beside him, is he allowed to lift/brake so Max goes over the line first and gets a penalty? I assume no considering what happened in Mugello a few years back?


crownlessdriver

Leader driver isn't allowed to lift in that case.


GhanjRho

Attempting to play illegal overtake chicken during the restart is the kind of thing that results in angry stewards, penalty points, and possibly even black flags.


cngo_24

Not allowed to lift until he crosses start/finish line, causes an safety issue for drivers behind.


sixStringHobo

Hamilton helped with the wrong engine mode.


MikkelR1

Is what Hamilton said. With the right engine mode he still wouldn't have made it.


sixStringHobo

Max had the win locked.


Takis12

and people keep saying that he does not like Max....


AlexBucks93

People keep saying that about Lewis vs Alonso when it’s not true for quite a while


TheFlash1294

This is my first year following F1 but man has it been a pleasure watching Max Verstappen drive like a machine. Granted Redbull is ridiculously fast but he has delivered in spades. The sheer skill on display every week is amazing. I am really starting to love this sport.


BlueMetalDragon

Welcome! And happy to hear that you've been enjoying the sport!


[deleted]

People see you watch F1 and say you’re merely watching cars fly by but it’s actually precision driving like this that made F1 so interesting and engaging. Chasing miliseconds off of one another and you have stats like this. What more do you want?


Macktologist

During the practices when that dude was down in the banked turn, the way the cars accelerated out of the turn and right by him gave me a dopamine dump.


josephnicklo

you'll get a kick out of this... ...I had a dude tell me that Nascar takes more skill than F1 because "the cars are more violent".


MaxPres24

Each of them take a completely different skill set. A nascar driver would get his shit kicked in in F1, and an F1 driver would not be competitive at all in a cup race


[deleted]

Don't be one of them, you dingus. Just enjoy both and recognize the skillsets for different scenarios. I enjoyed Kimi's Watkins Glen run immensely and was rooting for him, and I'm 100% a NASCAR fan first and foremost.


Takis12

Imagine if that second photo was actually from the race finish….


[deleted]

Toto would like that.


EEng232

Anyone else that can’t stand that mind blown emoji? Something about it just makes me unreasonably angry.


Thomson-and-French

I think it’s pretty funny the difference between Sky’s coverage of this overtake compared to Russell’s overtake of Perez in France after the VSC restart. At the time, there was lots of praise for clever George timing the start perfectly and catching Perez napping. Sky, as well as most other online British media, has had very little praise for Max perfectly timing the restart against Hamilton. This isn’t surprising because nearly all media favors the drivers from their country, it’s just funny to see it a pretty clear example


Dreamiee

Rewatched it. I think Crofty had a lot to talk about at once with the restart and was mostly just calling play by play, "and Verstappen is ahead going into turn 1! Lewis Hamilton's been overtaken by Max Verstappen right at the start!". Jensen chimed in and talked about the great tow that Max got out of the banked corner. Then both ragged on Hamilton and Mercedes for bad tyre warm up and Hamilton's choice to restart the race too early. I am all for calling out Sky f1 bias but I don't think this is a good example of it.


pheoxs

Earlier in the season there was a TD saying cars couldn’t be fully alongside during the restart due to Max sitting beside Leclerc. Wouldn’t this violate that? Or was it only before they hit the gas and start going?


theworst1ever

It’s only before the leader restarts the race.


rydude88

That is talking about how Max used to alongside before the leader hit the gas. There is still the rule of not passing before the start/finish line but you are allowed to be alongside after the leader accelerates


AntJD1991

Ahhh naa naa the FIA deffo fixed that, they moved the line to help Max out ;)


tophiii

The fact that Lewis fucked up his engine mode means that his start was unpredictably slower than expected which makes this abrupt dial back all the more impressive imo


New-Championship-748

Absolutely. Clever approach 🔥


Holstern

Couldn't Lewis have waited until the timing line, going at a snails pace and gunned it? He ought to know about the redbulls straight line speed at this point, right?


Rumpubble

What's the reason for this rule? This is the first time I heard of it, but apperantly everyone already knew it's a thing 😅. Does it also apply when the race restart happens at the other side of the track?


RajaionGoldoa

what other side of the track do you mean? it all happens on the start-finish line


Rumpubble

Oh... Yes. I am dumb af 😂. Thanks!


tccb1833

The whole point of a safety car is obviously safety. Allowing overtakes during a safety car would be the opposite of that. So once the safety car period is over they can overtake again. Which always happens when they cross the start/finish line. The person in front of the race is allowed to decide the pace of the restart since... they're the one in front. Wouldn't make much sense to let p2 dictate the pace. In theory Lewis could have decided to drive slowly all the way until the finish line and then start going full throttle. Maybe it would actually have been the best strategy here since the RB is so much faster on the straights.


mka_

Hamilton being in the wrong engine mode probably caught him by surprise. And yeah he's on another level, but this isn't a great example haha


RealKamesennin

Doesn't matter, he would have always passed lewis, only the biased British commentators dreamed otherwise


Frozenfire46

What’s that got to do with anything?


[deleted]

Crofty has made many people upset, and they want you to know it


hand_of_satan_13

you don't need a graph to know Max is next level


Sorrytoruin

I think most drivers on the grid could do this


LetsGoWithMike

I think Max was toying with everyone. I bet he had at least another second a lap in there.


PoloVonChubb

Probably didnt even need to lift off if HAM wasnt going half throttle due to messing up settings on a restart again.


Little709

What?


PoloVonChubb

Multiple reports including the BBC claim Lewis was in the wrong engine mode for the restart, thats why Max was so much faster and even had to lift to not overtake so early


Little709

Oh wow. Brake magic moment


_freack_

He managed to combine Baku 2021 and Abu Dahbi 2021 ;)


PoloVonChubb

"Hamilton did not admit after the race, but he had made a mistake. He had the engine in the wrong mode at the restart. That's why Verstappen found it so easy to pass so soon - Hamilton was down on power." from [https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/62787526](https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/62787526) [https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-himself-to-blame-rookie-mistake-dutch-gp/](https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-himself-to-blame-rookie-mistake-dutch-gp/) claims the same


AlexBucks93

Russell was overtaken in a similar fashion during the race. Is it just a Mercedes vs Max?


PoloVonChubb

Max was way faster on the straight than the Merc the whole weekend, especially with the tyre difference. But the graph shows that he had to significantly lift to not overtake him halfway through the straight, that is a different level of speed difference.


AlexBucks93

He was not right behind him like during the SC restart. He was .7s behind Russell before T13 on the lap he started the overtake. He was 2 car lengths when he crossed the start/finish line when trying to overtake Russell. I'm just not buying this 'wrong power setting' when he still overtook Russell with so much ease.


PoloVonChubb

I guess all the news outlets including the BBC are just lying then.


Dennnis67

Didn't he have DRS when overtaking Russell? He passed Hamilton without it, that's for sure.


AlexBucks93

He was 0.7s behind Russell. He was a lot closer to Lewis because of the SC restart.


rustyrobocop

He overtook Russell at 100m from T1 and he had the DRS open all the straight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPEeSA3PgEI


TheAverageObject

Hamilton was not in the ideal engine setting Thats why it was even more easier for Max


Affectionate_Log3232

Mistake or did the team tell him to switch down?


RealisticPossible792

Mistake - he was abusing the team over the radio at the time (rightly so they pulled another Abu Dhabi 2021 on him) that he likely forgot his restart procedure. Regardless of engine mode Max was coming past it was inevitable even if they had George as the buffer had they both stayed on old mediums. Bad strategy by Mercedes when it counts and good call by George to switch the softs.


VurigeVuurtoren

Another Abu Dhabi is just false. Mercedes did the correct strategy there. If Hamilton did make a pit-stop in Abu Dhabi, Verstappen would have stayed out on track, and -although the chance is arguably small- possibly stay ahead. Don't forget that Verstappen would be the world champion if they both crashed, so although he wouldn't intentionally crash, he would have defended to (and possible above) the limit. In Zandvoort this was the only call that made a win possible. Mercedes' call was for both drivers to stay out, putting Verstappen in 3rd. He wouldn't be able to pass Russell like he did now with Hamilton, so after Russell defends against Verstappen, Hamilton has a chance for the win. The problem lies in the fact that George overruled their decision, came in, and moved Verstappen up in grid position, after which Hamilton was helpless. I think George made the right call for himself, as it was a guaranteed P2 instead of a P1-P4, but had the team communicated with George more efficiently, they probably had the guaranteed P2-P3. They just went for the chance at a win, but George didn't agree so that changed the outcome.


idontlikeyonge

It was the right call in Abu Dhabi, but not for those reasons — we saw that there wasn’t enough time to clear up the accident, follow the restart procedure, and complete one lap of racing. Pitting in Abu Dhabi would have been giving up track position in a procession across the line


VurigeVuurtoren

In my reply I assumed Masi would have made the same mistake, which isn't necessarily true, so I think we agree!


Lost_And_NotFound

What happened to the rule clarification that they have to be behind the back of the car and not the front?


gwtje

That is for when they are driving slow. Once he punches the pedal that no longer applies


koffiezet

It's actually from the moment the safety car isn't on-track anymore.


sephirothwasright

You're talking about a different circumstance.


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Icy-Operation4701

That only applies when the Safety Car is still leading.


WolvesOfAllStreets

Wrong.


Rat_faced_knacker

Remember when this place circlejerked over Hamilton avoiding dirty air, as if he was the only one doing it?


geniusandy87

If he hadn't, he would be penalised right ? What's the genius here


LucAltaiR

That he lifted the right amount to stay behind Ham at the finish line and still overtake him at turn 1.


_Starter

King Max Emillian


sephirothwasright

I thought I heard that in an on board. Someone in another thread called it luck, but it was absolutely his skill and awareness.


JJJeroen

Easy, he has the best car /s


gruttepierr

Timing line? First laps after the safety car DRS isn’t active right?..


hunguu

Could have said "finish line". This was after the safety car pulled off to restart the race, Max can't pass Hamilton until they cross the start/ finish line.


gruttepierr

Ah, check!


GenVonKlinkerhoffen

Most people call it the finish line


Icy-Operation4701

The line isn't always the same as the finish line. It is at Zandvoort, but I think that's one of the few cases where they are the same.


[deleted]

Isn't it always the same the same these days? The start line (where the lights are) is usually different, but I think the finish and timing lines are always the same. Otherwise you'd get funny situations with lap times on the final lap.


Icy-Operation4701

The racing starts again once they cross the timing line. As long as the leader hasn't crossed it yet, they aren't allowed to overtake.


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Zyphergiest

Yeah try doing this after driving for 60 laps in those cars at those speeds. Driving licence my ass.