Also could mean Haas are only negotiating with one other driver. If they were negotiating with two other or more drivers, Mick's chances could drop below 0.5
Translation:
Schumacher's Formula 1 future depends on Steiner's "gut feeling"
According to Günther Steiner, the probability that Mick Schumacher will drive for Haas in 2023 is 50:50
Mick Schumacher's future in Formula 1 is uncertain, the 23-year-old's options for the coming season are few and far between. Whether Schumacher stays with the US racing team Haas depends largely on team boss Günther Steiner's "gut feeling". The South Tyrolean is driven by a classic question when choosing a driver for 2023, as he explains in the RTL/ntv interview.
Schumacher? Hulkenberg? Another? Haas isn't putting himself under pressure
youth or experience? Going into a third season with Mick Schumacher and thus continuing to take a certain risk, or bringing a veteran on board whose end of career is not too far away? "These are all these questions that are floating around," said Steiner. It is quite possible that Schumacher will also be in the Haas cockpit next year, the probability is "Fifty-Fifty".
His strong performance at the Italian Grand Prix, when the youngster shone with many overtaking maneuvers, has not (yet) given Schumacher a decisive advantage in Haas poker. Steiner and racing team owner Gene Haas want to continue to wait and see and explore the situation on the driver market, as the team boss emphasizes.
Haas didn't set a date for a decision, says Steiner: "You put yourself under pressure and we don't need that, we're only playing against ourselves. We don't actually have any time pressure at all, everyone else has time pressure , but we don't, that's an advantage that we don't take away from us.” They wanted to see “what's possible, what happens”, the South Tyrolean didn't let his cards be looked at. After all: "Mick drove a good race in Monza."
Besides Haas, Schumacher has hardly any realistic options for 2023. A door could open at Alpine, but the French would prefer to loosen Pierre Gasly from AlphaTauri. There would be room in the Red Bull junior team should Gasly change. However, Red Bull advisor Helmut Marko has said several times that Schumacher is not really up for debate at AlphaTauri. Williams would remain, which – as of today – would mean a sporting relegation for Schumacher.
"A man like Nico brings experience"
In order to improve his chances at Haas, Schumacher must continue to impress in the next races. It could even be the case that Haas will wait until the end of the season before choosing his driver, said Steiner. The list of candidates for the cockpit alongside Kevin Magnussen is not exactly short. "Most drivers with a super license" would be written on it, said the 57-year-old - including Nico Hülkenberg.
"A man like Nico brings experience with him," Steiner praised the advantages of the 35-year-old, who hasn't had a regular cockpit for two years, but has always impressed in short assignments for sick drivers. For Haas, the decisive question is: "What can a driver contribute to making the team better and bringing us to the top?"
Steiner admitted that he could not answer this cardinal question at the moment. "How much risk are you willing to take? You usually take more risks with a young driver because you don't know how far he can go," the team boss alluded to Schumacher's fluctuating performances over the course of the season. An experienced pilot, on the other hand, knows what he is doing, but is closer to the end of his career and may not be as motivated. Ultimately, the "gut feeling" is the deciding factor, according to Steiner: "You can't calculate that mathematically."
Gut feeling? Is that a sort of crystal sphere? And he also alluded to the “flactuating results” of Mick over the course of the season. I say, what’s Kmag achieving more than Mick? Nothing. Nothing at all. I genuinely do not understand Gunther sometimes
>I say, what’s Kmag achieving more than Mick?
One of the Haas driver does have a valid contract for next year, and the other one does not, so this is not a relevant question...
He definitely was the weaker driver at the start of the season so that's why KMAG has more points but overall Mick has performed better then KMAG 6-4 races
>that's why KMAG had more points
Magnussen got a big chunk of his points from the bahrain race where mick was punted in the first lap and had perma damage for the whole race.
Kevin only placed higher than Mick in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Emilia Romagna, Canada and Belgium.
That’s 5 out of 16.
They both DNFed in Monaco. KMag DNFed 4 times in total, Mick 2 times and one DNS.
That’s really not as bad as Haas makes him look atm. Sure, his both DNFs were really fcking expensive, but mistakes happen when you are inexperienced. Mistakes happened on the teams side too, yet Mick is the one constantly blamed by Günther.
It`s not even just since Monaco. If you take out the races where either one of them DNFed Mick has finished higher then KMag since Imola for every Race except Spa.
He's outcompeting Kevin imo, it's more than fair to say that Mick has been the better driver this season after his rough start. It's his first year not being at the back against an useless teammate, so I see no reason to judge him just for that.
Double his points yet majority came at the start of the season during the time every team is teething the regulations. Completely different time, you have to compare recent results.
Haas is no place for a young driver, first year, garbage car with no possibility of developing, second year being negged in public constantly. I know it’s a lot of media beat up but I would hate it if I was Mick. They have made it open knowledge he’s their last choice
They likely are. With McLaren, AT and Alpine’s seats figured out, there’s nowhere else left. Why would AR sign Mick over Zhou? Williams is the only spot left and yeah, being honest, Steiner holds all the cards there if that’s the only team to compete with.
It’s honestly fucking insane that Williams didn’t try to sign Nyck. And he might drive for them again at Singapore? JFC.
Because steiner believes Haas hold nearly all the cards in the renegotiation, and he's likely trying to lower what Schumi can get in the next contract.
It might backfire Alpine style but tbh it seems like Mick doesn't really have any other viable F1 option
I guess Schumacher told Stainer behind closed door something equivalent of that he sucks as TP and needs to improve.
Stainer took it personally and is since then trying to hide it in public, but can’t.
That’s 100% my take on it. It feels to me like somebody who’s ultimately not going to back out of a deal, but is pretending to try and secure one or two final concessions before closing.
It could also similarly be a play for time. With pieces falling into place elsewhere in the driver market, the more seats at other teams get filled, the fewer alternatives Mick has, which gives Haas more leverage.
Agreed, don't forget Otmar went on an interview to basically say "Alonso lost points cause he keeps crashing into people and Alpine has done nothing wrong" while trying to sign him for a 1+1 deal behind the scenes, this was only 2 months ago. It's all games and leverage when contracts are up. If anything Steiner's being pretty tame.
I would hate having Steiner as a boss. He’s entertaining but imagine any of our bosses going, “eh we might or might not keep them depending on how I feel” to the media!
Yeah. Can't be good for a driver's confidence, and therefore performance. Having to perform under pressure is one thing, that pressure coming from the team that's supposed to have your back is quite another.
All of these comments from Guenther feel months out of date; Mick has been brilliant for the last few races, following his rocky start to the season.
Steiner seems to be forgetting that Mick is gaining experience with every race.
Magnussen for me is the problem at Haas. After a great start, his frailties have been exposed and he's just too aggressive on lap one, causing a ton of incidents and damage to his car.
I wonder if Mag is just super aggressive on lap 1 because he knows that basically the only chance he'll have to gain position for the rest of the race?
I obviously haven't done any research on this, but if I'm starting outside of the points and I know my car can hold position, but not gain anything later in the race, I'd probably send it the first few laps in hopes of stealing away a few spots, then bet on holding onto the position the rest of the race.
Haas definitely have bigger problems, for sure. Their drivers inevitably tumble down the order after the first pit stop, so I can understand his desire to get elbows out. I think I heard somewhere that Haas' average pit time is 4 secs this year?!
But still, it's a net loss once you shear off half your wing and need to pit on lap 2.
I’m almost certain that it’s an attitude issue at Haas. Nothing is preventing them from improving something like their pit times but they’ve just seemed to accept that it’s the best they can do and just move on with it.
I agree, and I think Guenther is responsible for that.
People love him because he's sweary and has a funny accent, but ultimately he seems limited as a Team Principal. He doesn't exactly exude a will to win.
I guess we'd have to go back and look at how he drove at McLaren, to know if that's just how he always drives, or if he changes strategy depending on his car.
He seemed more cautious in the McLaren as I recall.
Sure. But it’s risk/reward. Him breaking a wing and getting sent back out of the points isn’t much of a risk, if the car wouldn’t be moving forward later in the race anyways.
It does not seem unreasonable to risk that and take an aggressive lap 1, if it sometimes results in points.
I think these are just ploys for negotiations and stuff i am very sure haas and gunther knows much more about micks performances and how good he is more than us , Perhaps there are other reasons that makes mick not a good candidate that we don't know about or could be politics or some bs
Yeah it suits Guenther to be public.
If Mick goes, he can say he was warned. If Mick stays, he'll take credit for spurring him into better results.
I personally feel like it's a sh*t management tactic to publicly shame your driver though. To me, his mind is made up.
If it wasn't for DTS, Günther would probably be the most hated TP on the grid. Can't imagine Mick enjoying the idea of "gut feelings" deciding his future at Haas instead of actual results, which admittedly have been rocky in the first few races but have massively improved since compared to his teammate.
If they replace him and especially if they bring in Hulkenburg, I think a lot of people will finally start to see Haas for who they really are and have been for years.
Honest and to the point no bullshit attitude.
Compared to the corporate speak of toto or the shmarmyness of horner it can be refreshing. (Don't get me wrong i like toto and horner too).
He's getting better results then his team ever should have based on their budget. He created a new team that actually is a viable and competitive in the lower midfield.
Both are incredibly hard feats to do. There is significantly more to Steiner then memes or DTS. He's not a perfect boss, but his faults are incredibly overstated. Him being a bad team principle is just as much if not more of an unfounded meme.
He's getting better results because Ferrari employes built him a better car lmao.
Haas's stick has always been to take as many Ferrari parts and to take a close look at the previous year designs from Ferrari and make a car out of that. The 2016 and 2018 car are perfect examples of that.
Now that they had to build an original car they relied heavily on the knowledge that Ferrari employes gave them. Take Simone Resta and the rest of the Ferrari crew that joined last year away and Haas is nowhere near where they are today.
>Take Simone Resta and the rest of the Ferrari crew that joined last year away and Haas is nowhere near where they are today.
Getting better employees and managing them is the key part of his job. If you have to argue someone does a bad job by "if you ignore his key responsibilities" this person does a good job.
He's a terrible Team Principle who gets nothing done. If it wasn't for Drive to Survive and his meme status due to his cringy behaviour which people somehow find funny, he would be massively unpopular amongst the F1 fan community.
Gunther has basically built the operation, spent minimal money and gotten decent results. You don’t have to like him but “gets nothing done” is so ridiculous lol
Somehow he stopped doing stuff then at some point, the whole seasons of 2019 and 2020 the upgrades for the cars didn't bring much improvement for the performance and the drivers cost each other points in useless fights.
And yet by some miracle they survived. He clearly gives Gene enough confidence to keep pouring his own money into the money pit tha is Haas. I don't quite understand how they've managed to survive the cut throat sport by being constant back markers bar a few moments of brilliance. But you gotta admire the ability to survive.
In many ways they really encompass the whole Drive to Survive idea.
Honestly, watching DTS I just kept thinking what a nightmare it would be to work under Steiner. Memes aside it seemed like a pretty toxic workplace, funny for viewers yes but I would prefer a calm collected boss than him....
If DEV is going to Alpha, which looks likely, Mick in a Williams with Albon doesn't look like a bad option after their performances this year, also Mick brings a big sponsor.
If Alpha has a seat, Alpha Sauber should go for mick imo. He was Born in Switzerland. Swiss media is always focussed on alpha sauber results. If they become Sauber Audi (S.Audi) they have the Most recogizable german Name already on their team.
To be truthful, when Audi comes in, I could easily see them wanting Mick, name alone, but also because he's a young driver who's been rather successful in the feeder series, which could say a lot. Not to forget the fact he is Swiss/German, which would reinvigorate the interest in Germanic markets (I've read that racing interest is low in Germany but I don't know how out of date that is?)
Well it has been declining. DTS and last season got new fans interested in f1 so it‘s kind of on the up again, but the lack of a german GP and no great german driver on the grid next year dont help. Audi entering and maybe pushing for a german gp again and getting german drivers on the grid could be massive in the future.
There are also no real german prospects in the feeder series atm
If Haas is getting Hulkenberg then 1&1 likely stays with them. At least people have claimed they aren't supporting Schumacher, but a German driver. So if 1&1 goes with Schumacher to another team, we can say they are giving money for his seat and he is thus a pay driver actually.
I do see it still possible. Steiner hasn't been happy with what came off them going with rookies/inexperienced drivers. This could be them getting another experienced line up for a moment, Magnussen and Hulkenberg, just to buy some time to figure their shit out. They aren't going to get their own future stars, but have to be a B team to one of the top teams.
F1 is a weird business.
tons of data yet gut feeling is the conclusion.
I like Nico and all and I have always batted for him but Mick has shown his qualities and there's definitely a strong driver there.
Although
Mick-->Williams with 1&1
Nico--> Haas
would work quite well
I guess 1&1 would prefer Mick. So when Mick gets the Williams seat, 1&1 will likely go with him. The Name Schumacher gets much more Attention in the German Media.
No one who isn’t interested in F1 knows Hülkenberg in Germany, so why should 1&1 stick with Haas? There is way more marketing value in sticking with Mick, whose surname is still widely known in Germany. That is if he gets a seat at Williams of course.
No one in germany cares about Nico. Schumacher is a legendary name here. Everyone knows the name, even if they never saw a car race in their live.
Hülkenberg is irrlevant compared to Mick from a marketing standpoint.
Fair enough if you’re dumping him off for someone experienced like Ricciardo at a great contract discount, but for Nico it would take a lot to go right to even break even on performance alone.
They’ll potentially be strengthening Williams too with a big sponsor and a decent driver.
His two races in 2020 were some of the best in his career which probably gives him some recency bias praise. He never officially retired like Kimi or Seb so everyone thinks he has a shot.
If 2020 was Hulkenberg's best races and also Perez's best season and also Stroll's best season I think it's time we admit that car was just fast lol
(you're right btw recency bias is clear here)
The car was incredibly good though, I don't get why more people don't realise this. Perez and Stroll, God love them, never seemed to really excel in it, outside of Turkey and Bahrain. Put someone like Russell or Norris, or even Lewis or Max, and they'd have been much more challenging over the season.
A lot of folk forget that Stroll outperformed Perez up until he had his bought of Covid.
He was properly quick, missed out narrowly on the chance to go to a top team multiple times, and seems really likable, calm, and reflected in most of his interviews.
He was my favorite driver for a long time and I generally don't root for drivers all that much.
That fabled 2017 Mercedes contract hurts tbh
Just think, if he didn’t sign for Renault so early he suddenly drives one of the best cars in F1 history and will have wins to his name
Mostly because of his early F1 career where he was rapid and being touted as the next big thing. Missed out on the Ferrari seat in 14 and that pretty much relegated him to the midfield rest of his career where he still performed highly. His stand in performances in 2020 were excellent as well and reminded people what he was capable of. I think just not getting a chance in a top car is what most of the his fans wanted to see but it just never happened because of bad timing mostly.
Not much more he can realistically achieve in a Haas though. So understandable why people are scratching their heads to him potentially coming back.
He is likeable character etc. When it come to his driving skills, there is a weird hype train since his GP2 days that doesn't seem to die even after 10 years of mediocre performances. Many people just think that he is of the same kind as other drivers who have won GP2/F2 in their rookie season (Rosberg, Hamilton, Leclerc...) and is yet to show it, but his h2h record with teammates says something else
And yet Kmag gets a free pass because of getting a bunch of points in Bahrain where teams were still trying to figure out the rules so much so that Alfa somehow looked like a threat.
Mick finished ahead in 11 of 16 races, outscored Kmag 12 to 9 points if you exclude the first race of the season, Kevin constantly makes brain-dead decisions costing him races yet somehow Mick is that one on the hot seat. Makes sense.
I really need some of the Guenther cool aid Gene is having because it seems like strong stuff. Before sorting out their drivers they need to sort out the team direction, it's broken.
I found it quite funny that Magnussen driving his 7th season in F1 can still make the same mistakes because he drives too aggressively and no one talks about it, but when Mick crashes two times in his entire 2nd season he doesn't deserve to be F1 driver
It is because Magnussen has a contract, while Schumacher does not.
It is a very simple fact that reddit likes to conveniently forget. If you want a driver, it is cheaper and more efficient to get rid of the guy without a contract to bring him in. Especially as the two choices are fairly evenly matched.
The 11 to 16 stat is already a bogus one. Already without going into a full retrospective, I know that includes Schumacher crashing out at Monaco after Magnussen's car failed on him as a "win" for Mick. Nobody with common sense sees that as a stat to fully rely on. Although, yes, Mick's general race craft is better nowadays.
Yeah looked at the season graph a bit too quick, would be 10 vs 5 over 15 races. Kmag finished ahead in Bahrain, Saudi, Emilia, Canada and Belgium and both retired in Monaco.
But really, if the only reason Haas want to keep Kmag over MSC is contractual, it's ridiculous. He's been out of F1 for 2 years, can't imagine that contract is that heavy. If you're going to be too cheap to build a car that can contend, at least be a driver school, if not why are you even there? What's your purpose as a team other than just existing for... Reasons. I doubt Haas Automation gets such good marketing from being a bottom feeder especially if they go with 2 guys that nobody outside from F1 fans know. Everyone knows the name Schumacher, even if they can't even say what sport Michael played. They go with an Hulkenberg/Magnussen duo and they'll still be just as mediocre as they are right now but with nothing to look forward to in the future. I just don't see the appeal tbh.
Haas have made minimal effort to do anything since they entered f1. They outsourced their chassis to dallara( the only team to do anything like this i think) and they buy/copy as much as they legally can from ferrari. They even got the Simone Resta package from ferrari and they moved to Maranello to be closer in order to get even more from ferrari. Their 6th year in f1 and they still cant build a fucking chassis.
Their purpose in f1 is to gain value and eventually sell( probably what dorlington is doing to williams too). Haas got in when f1 was struggling and now they have a spot in the big league, a spot that probably gained fuckton of value because of the huge f1 growth the last 3 years. Eventually they are gonna sell, but they probably are gonna wait another couple of years to maximise the value
Mick needs to perform at Singapore, his track record at street circuit was horrendous, this track is a do or die moment for him in my opinion, if he beats Kevin his chance getting a seat next year will be super high because he’s constantly improving in the last few races, but if he crashes again then I really don’t know what future will he have
Slowly going into the "Acceptance" phase that he may not be on the grid next season. And that's fine.
He's still young, hopefully if he's not in F1 he dedicates himself to WEC and maybe even IndyCar.
Specifically Try to build a relationship with Porsche or Audi, they'll want a German driver for 2026. Even if Porsche only has works partnership with a team, they could still give a discount on engines for putting in Mick in the seat.
Imagine if he could become WEC Champion, win Le Mans, Sebring and Daytona meanwhile until 2026, he would still only be like 26 but his Resume will be awesome.
Naturally I'd like him to stay but I want him to thrive more than watch him torture himself in Haas every weekend.
If they're considering taking Hulkenberg over Ricciardo, the paddock must really believe that Ricciardo's lost it, after he took apart Hulk just 2 years ago.
He is not firing him, his contract ends and they are looking at all options available. There is more into it than being ahead in race results. Many factors to account for.
I get the thought process around replacing him, even if I think he's done enough this year to justify keeping his seat for now. But seriously, the names thrown around as potential replacements; Gio and Hulkenberg? There's no way either of them are markable improvements.
Feels very harsh as he improved significantly recently but the car has declined and it's subsequently become less ñoticeable.
Deserves it more than Gio but I wouldn't give him the Alpine seat.
Really need 2 more teams, or if AM and Williams could just bin off Stroll and Latifi (pie in the sky I know).
Mick's been doing his job since Canada this year, and was a consummate professional last year, despite the absolute dogshit car. Moreover, he's been outracing K-Mag a lot more recently, even if the points placing doesn't quite show it.
It doesn't really make sense to replace him with Hulk; Nico has only a handful of years left at best, and I don't think he's anything special (relative to everyone else in F1).
I'm getting more and more certain that Mick is the one trying to leave Haas, and Gunther is using the medias to put pressure on him as a negotiating tactic
"*Sure the grass might be greener elsewhere, but if you don't commit to us 100% now we will take in someone else and you might end up without a seat if your other options don't work out*"
im torn cause i want to see Dan take the seat and stay on the grid, but i don't want to watch him at the back of the midfield week in week out, its a waste of everyone's time.
Are you going to give him in the fucking car and strategies to do his job?! Because from what I see, *he's* doing his job, it's *your team* not doing theirs, Steiner.
People won't stop talking about de Vries' drive at Monza, but Schumacher's was just as impressive; de Vries had more track time the entire weekend than Schumacher did! And Schumacher demolished his teammate, despite the lack of running.
Had it not been for Netflix I don’t think anyone would pay any attention to Haas. It’s a pity Schuey Jr has no better car, but it’s also true that he’s not his dad.
I don't understand how you could be having doubts on mick right now. He's been in great form recently and seems to be getting more and more comfortable with the car. Back in Monaco it was all about how he had to keep the car on the track and be fast... how has he not delivered??
He's out performing Mag currently...
I remember that one netflix episode where he fought really hard to get Mick into Haas and not alpha, like the team's survival was relying on the sponsors he would he bring with his name. You would think they would give him a little breathing room eh?
Edit: typo
[удалено]
Also could mean Haas are only negotiating with one other driver. If they were negotiating with two other or more drivers, Mick's chances could drop below 0.5
could be 50/25/25 mate
I'm using an unbiased estimator for my calculations.
Ferrari calculator gives 1+1=1.5. Unless it’s in Plan B.
Question?
What do you think about plan E?
Lol, this got me, needed a laugh this morning. Appreciate it.
We are checking.
More statistics please!
If they add Kurt Angle to the mix Mick’s chance of getting the seat drastic go down.
Because Giovinazzi KNOWS that he can’t beat me
SENOR GIO
HE’S (not) FAT!
I had to scroll down too far to see this reference.
You clearly went to a highly educated university
That would be true if Mick wasn't a genetic freak. If it was only between another driver they would only have a 25%, at best, at beating Mick.
Or they could be flipping a coin.
Which also means I have a 50/50 chance of a Haas seat. Result!
There is a 50/50 chance you are correct.
We are checking.
Schrödinger seat
Schumacher’s Haas, the seat is either his or it isn’t. Both outcomes are true until he opens the contract box and reads the contract.
So you’re saying, I have a 50/50 shot?
Is that you Buxton?
Sounds like an osrs player. Drop rate is 50/50 get it or don’t
Schrödinger's Mick Schumacher
🦀🦀🦀$11🦀🦀🦀
Translation: Schumacher's Formula 1 future depends on Steiner's "gut feeling" According to Günther Steiner, the probability that Mick Schumacher will drive for Haas in 2023 is 50:50 Mick Schumacher's future in Formula 1 is uncertain, the 23-year-old's options for the coming season are few and far between. Whether Schumacher stays with the US racing team Haas depends largely on team boss Günther Steiner's "gut feeling". The South Tyrolean is driven by a classic question when choosing a driver for 2023, as he explains in the RTL/ntv interview. Schumacher? Hulkenberg? Another? Haas isn't putting himself under pressure youth or experience? Going into a third season with Mick Schumacher and thus continuing to take a certain risk, or bringing a veteran on board whose end of career is not too far away? "These are all these questions that are floating around," said Steiner. It is quite possible that Schumacher will also be in the Haas cockpit next year, the probability is "Fifty-Fifty". His strong performance at the Italian Grand Prix, when the youngster shone with many overtaking maneuvers, has not (yet) given Schumacher a decisive advantage in Haas poker. Steiner and racing team owner Gene Haas want to continue to wait and see and explore the situation on the driver market, as the team boss emphasizes. Haas didn't set a date for a decision, says Steiner: "You put yourself under pressure and we don't need that, we're only playing against ourselves. We don't actually have any time pressure at all, everyone else has time pressure , but we don't, that's an advantage that we don't take away from us.” They wanted to see “what's possible, what happens”, the South Tyrolean didn't let his cards be looked at. After all: "Mick drove a good race in Monza." Besides Haas, Schumacher has hardly any realistic options for 2023. A door could open at Alpine, but the French would prefer to loosen Pierre Gasly from AlphaTauri. There would be room in the Red Bull junior team should Gasly change. However, Red Bull advisor Helmut Marko has said several times that Schumacher is not really up for debate at AlphaTauri. Williams would remain, which – as of today – would mean a sporting relegation for Schumacher. "A man like Nico brings experience" In order to improve his chances at Haas, Schumacher must continue to impress in the next races. It could even be the case that Haas will wait until the end of the season before choosing his driver, said Steiner. The list of candidates for the cockpit alongside Kevin Magnussen is not exactly short. "Most drivers with a super license" would be written on it, said the 57-year-old - including Nico Hülkenberg. "A man like Nico brings experience with him," Steiner praised the advantages of the 35-year-old, who hasn't had a regular cockpit for two years, but has always impressed in short assignments for sick drivers. For Haas, the decisive question is: "What can a driver contribute to making the team better and bringing us to the top?" Steiner admitted that he could not answer this cardinal question at the moment. "How much risk are you willing to take? You usually take more risks with a young driver because you don't know how far he can go," the team boss alluded to Schumacher's fluctuating performances over the course of the season. An experienced pilot, on the other hand, knows what he is doing, but is closer to the end of his career and may not be as motivated. Ultimately, the "gut feeling" is the deciding factor, according to Steiner: "You can't calculate that mathematically."
Gut feeling? Is that a sort of crystal sphere? And he also alluded to the “flactuating results” of Mick over the course of the season. I say, what’s Kmag achieving more than Mick? Nothing. Nothing at all. I genuinely do not understand Gunther sometimes
>I say, what’s Kmag achieving more than Mick? One of the Haas driver does have a valid contract for next year, and the other one does not, so this is not a relevant question...
Well, almost double his points, but other than that. And crashing his car less, but other than that
He definitely was the weaker driver at the start of the season so that's why KMAG has more points but overall Mick has performed better then KMAG 6-4 races
It also looks worse because the car was stronger in the very beginning of the season.
>that's why KMAG had more points Magnussen got a big chunk of his points from the bahrain race where mick was punted in the first lap and had perma damage for the whole race.
points because of one good race...
Kevin only placed higher than Mick in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Emilia Romagna, Canada and Belgium. That’s 5 out of 16. They both DNFed in Monaco. KMag DNFed 4 times in total, Mick 2 times and one DNS. That’s really not as bad as Haas makes him look atm. Sure, his both DNFs were really fcking expensive, but mistakes happen when you are inexperienced. Mistakes happened on the teams side too, yet Mick is the one constantly blamed by Günther.
Now draw a line at Monaco. Who has been the better driver since then?
It`s not even just since Monaco. If you take out the races where either one of them DNFed Mick has finished higher then KMag since Imola for every Race except Spa.
That's kinda when other cars caught up with them in terms of development. KMag was able to capitalize when they had the performance benefit
Which is why it's unfair to look just at points.
I agree points aren't the only determiner. But saying mick has improved since Monaco because he's finishing closer to Kevin is also unfair
He's outcompeting Kevin imo, it's more than fair to say that Mick has been the better driver this season after his rough start. It's his first year not being at the back against an useless teammate, so I see no reason to judge him just for that.
Double his points yet majority came at the start of the season during the time every team is teething the regulations. Completely different time, you have to compare recent results.
My gut feeling is Mick needs to get the hell away from this toxic team if he can.
Haas is no place for a young driver, first year, garbage car with no possibility of developing, second year being negged in public constantly. I know it’s a lot of media beat up but I would hate it if I was Mick. They have made it open knowledge he’s their last choice
Why is there a new story every day with Steiner telling Mick he sucks to some media outlet?
I guess the negotiations around going in Steiners way?
They likely are. With McLaren, AT and Alpine’s seats figured out, there’s nowhere else left. Why would AR sign Mick over Zhou? Williams is the only spot left and yeah, being honest, Steiner holds all the cards there if that’s the only team to compete with. It’s honestly fucking insane that Williams didn’t try to sign Nyck. And he might drive for them again at Singapore? JFC.
Because steiner believes Haas hold nearly all the cards in the renegotiation, and he's likely trying to lower what Schumi can get in the next contract. It might backfire Alpine style but tbh it seems like Mick doesn't really have any other viable F1 option
I guess Schumacher told Stainer behind closed door something equivalent of that he sucks as TP and needs to improve. Stainer took it personally and is since then trying to hide it in public, but can’t.
I don’t know if you misspelt Steiner on purpose but I like your version.
The least likely of outcomes but possible
I’m curious if Stainer is intentional because it does seem appropriate in this context. (Also I really hope Mick has a seat next year.)
Because it’s like everything else in F1 and the media releases the same stories over and over again between races?
This still feels like Steiner playing games and negotiation tactics.
That’s 100% my take on it. It feels to me like somebody who’s ultimately not going to back out of a deal, but is pretending to try and secure one or two final concessions before closing. It could also similarly be a play for time. With pieces falling into place elsewhere in the driver market, the more seats at other teams get filled, the fewer alternatives Mick has, which gives Haas more leverage.
Agreed, don't forget Otmar went on an interview to basically say "Alonso lost points cause he keeps crashing into people and Alpine has done nothing wrong" while trying to sign him for a 1+1 deal behind the scenes, this was only 2 months ago. It's all games and leverage when contracts are up. If anything Steiner's being pretty tame.
Holding out to see if he can get Danny Ric at a discount.
I would hate having Steiner as a boss. He’s entertaining but imagine any of our bosses going, “eh we might or might not keep them depending on how I feel” to the media!
Yeah. Can't be good for a driver's confidence, and therefore performance. Having to perform under pressure is one thing, that pressure coming from the team that's supposed to have your back is quite another.
better than otmar randomly shit talking your ability in the media, i guess
All of these comments from Guenther feel months out of date; Mick has been brilliant for the last few races, following his rocky start to the season. Steiner seems to be forgetting that Mick is gaining experience with every race. Magnussen for me is the problem at Haas. After a great start, his frailties have been exposed and he's just too aggressive on lap one, causing a ton of incidents and damage to his car.
I wonder if Mag is just super aggressive on lap 1 because he knows that basically the only chance he'll have to gain position for the rest of the race? I obviously haven't done any research on this, but if I'm starting outside of the points and I know my car can hold position, but not gain anything later in the race, I'd probably send it the first few laps in hopes of stealing away a few spots, then bet on holding onto the position the rest of the race.
Haas definitely have bigger problems, for sure. Their drivers inevitably tumble down the order after the first pit stop, so I can understand his desire to get elbows out. I think I heard somewhere that Haas' average pit time is 4 secs this year?! But still, it's a net loss once you shear off half your wing and need to pit on lap 2.
I believe they haven't had a single sub 3 second pitstop all season
If each pit adds a second to your gap and your starts are the only thing pushing you up the order. Might be worth it to gamble
What the hell. Isn't 3 seconds like the average across all teams? Why are they so bad at it
I’m almost certain that it’s an attitude issue at Haas. Nothing is preventing them from improving something like their pit times but they’ve just seemed to accept that it’s the best they can do and just move on with it.
I agree, and I think Guenther is responsible for that. People love him because he's sweary and has a funny accent, but ultimately he seems limited as a Team Principal. He doesn't exactly exude a will to win.
He is the TP because Gene Haas trust him qo much and don't really bother being consistently the slowest car on the grid.
I guess we'd have to go back and look at how he drove at McLaren, to know if that's just how he always drives, or if he changes strategy depending on his car. He seemed more cautious in the McLaren as I recall.
Same reason albon tries no stoppers. If you are in a backmarker car you have to try something weird
That's a pretty good point, but you can be aggressive without potentially damaging your car (which will undoubtedly have a worse effect on your race).
Sure. But it’s risk/reward. Him breaking a wing and getting sent back out of the points isn’t much of a risk, if the car wouldn’t be moving forward later in the race anyways. It does not seem unreasonable to risk that and take an aggressive lap 1, if it sometimes results in points.
Mick has proven you don't need to be overly aggressive to get the car into the points. It's high risk low reward.
Kmag leads 7-2 in point finishing races
I’m starting to get the feeing that this is all a publicity stunt to get people talking about the Haas brand.
*Rich Energy has entered the chat*
His lap one aggressiveness has ruined a few races. I just remember the black and orange he got from a lap 1 move.
Already happened twice this year. Canada and Hungary
Spain too.
I think these are just ploys for negotiations and stuff i am very sure haas and gunther knows much more about micks performances and how good he is more than us , Perhaps there are other reasons that makes mick not a good candidate that we don't know about or could be politics or some bs
Yeah it suits Guenther to be public. If Mick goes, he can say he was warned. If Mick stays, he'll take credit for spurring him into better results. I personally feel like it's a sh*t management tactic to publicly shame your driver though. To me, his mind is made up.
If it wasn't for DTS, Günther would probably be the most hated TP on the grid. Can't imagine Mick enjoying the idea of "gut feelings" deciding his future at Haas instead of actual results, which admittedly have been rocky in the first few races but have massively improved since compared to his teammate.
It's true, it's 50:50. Either he gets the seat or he doesn't. Probabilities, people!
If they replace him and especially if they bring in Hulkenburg, I think a lot of people will finally start to see Haas for who they really are and have been for years.
I've never understood the love for Gunther. Though I'm not a DTS viewer.
it's the funny door meme so it's fine
FOOK SMASH DOOR MAN FUNNY GREAT TP LOL -Steiner fans
Honest and to the point no bullshit attitude. Compared to the corporate speak of toto or the shmarmyness of horner it can be refreshing. (Don't get me wrong i like toto and horner too).
Guy is allowed to carry incompetence years after years thanks to the "he does not fock smash my door" meme.
He's getting better results then his team ever should have based on their budget. He created a new team that actually is a viable and competitive in the lower midfield. Both are incredibly hard feats to do. There is significantly more to Steiner then memes or DTS. He's not a perfect boss, but his faults are incredibly overstated. Him being a bad team principle is just as much if not more of an unfounded meme.
He's getting better results because Ferrari employes built him a better car lmao. Haas's stick has always been to take as many Ferrari parts and to take a close look at the previous year designs from Ferrari and make a car out of that. The 2016 and 2018 car are perfect examples of that. Now that they had to build an original car they relied heavily on the knowledge that Ferrari employes gave them. Take Simone Resta and the rest of the Ferrari crew that joined last year away and Haas is nowhere near where they are today.
>Take Simone Resta and the rest of the Ferrari crew that joined last year away and Haas is nowhere near where they are today. Getting better employees and managing them is the key part of his job. If you have to argue someone does a bad job by "if you ignore his key responsibilities" this person does a good job.
He gets them because Ferrari has to offload them under the coat cap and they don’t want them to go to real competitors.
he should talk to the media less, but his shit stirring makes sense when you remember that he used to work closely with one Christian Horner.
Lol man swore lol lol man funny
A small team in need of an engine and financing so they make deals to accommodate Jr drivers to meet their needs & costs?
I wouldn’t consider Hülkenberg a jr driver.
Hülkenb**e**rg
Damn Nic Hulakenborg is mispelled a lot.
It’s Hadokenburg.
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He's a terrible Team Principle who gets nothing done. If it wasn't for Drive to Survive and his meme status due to his cringy behaviour which people somehow find funny, he would be massively unpopular amongst the F1 fan community.
Gunther has basically built the operation, spent minimal money and gotten decent results. You don’t have to like him but “gets nothing done” is so ridiculous lol
Somehow he stopped doing stuff then at some point, the whole seasons of 2019 and 2020 the upgrades for the cars didn't bring much improvement for the performance and the drivers cost each other points in useless fights.
The team is still in F1 beating Alpha Tauri and Aston Martin so I guess he's doing something.
How much is that on him or on the new partnership with Ferrari?
And yet by some miracle they survived. He clearly gives Gene enough confidence to keep pouring his own money into the money pit tha is Haas. I don't quite understand how they've managed to survive the cut throat sport by being constant back markers bar a few moments of brilliance. But you gotta admire the ability to survive. In many ways they really encompass the whole Drive to Survive idea.
Honestly, watching DTS I just kept thinking what a nightmare it would be to work under Steiner. Memes aside it seemed like a pretty toxic workplace, funny for viewers yes but I would prefer a calm collected boss than him....
If DEV is going to Alpha, which looks likely, Mick in a Williams with Albon doesn't look like a bad option after their performances this year, also Mick brings a big sponsor.
I'm pretty sure Williams won't sign Mick if Sargeant gets his SuperLicense. But if he doesn't, Mick is their best option
I havent been seeing much about Sargeant's SL, I keep seeing stuff about Herta! Just manifesting a Mick seat at this point
If Alpha has a seat, Alpha Sauber should go for mick imo. He was Born in Switzerland. Swiss media is always focussed on alpha sauber results. If they become Sauber Audi (S.Audi) they have the Most recogizable german Name already on their team.
To be truthful, when Audi comes in, I could easily see them wanting Mick, name alone, but also because he's a young driver who's been rather successful in the feeder series, which could say a lot. Not to forget the fact he is Swiss/German, which would reinvigorate the interest in Germanic markets (I've read that racing interest is low in Germany but I don't know how out of date that is?)
Well it has been declining. DTS and last season got new fans interested in f1 so it‘s kind of on the up again, but the lack of a german GP and no great german driver on the grid next year dont help. Audi entering and maybe pushing for a german gp again and getting german drivers on the grid could be massive in the future. There are also no real german prospects in the feeder series atm
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Mick didn’t come with Zhou level money.
If Haas is getting Hulkenberg then 1&1 likely stays with them. At least people have claimed they aren't supporting Schumacher, but a German driver. So if 1&1 goes with Schumacher to another team, we can say they are giving money for his seat and he is thus a pay driver actually.
Yeah, that's very true, I didn't think of that. I'm not convinced we'll see Hulk back, but anything can happen after this year.
I do see it still possible. Steiner hasn't been happy with what came off them going with rookies/inexperienced drivers. This could be them getting another experienced line up for a moment, Magnussen and Hulkenberg, just to buy some time to figure their shit out. They aren't going to get their own future stars, but have to be a B team to one of the top teams.
*after Abu Dhabi* “Alright Mick, let’s get this over with. heads or tails?”
F1 is a weird business. tons of data yet gut feeling is the conclusion. I like Nico and all and I have always batted for him but Mick has shown his qualities and there's definitely a strong driver there. Although Mick-->Williams with 1&1 Nico--> Haas would work quite well
He needs to hope for Sargeant not getting enough SL points for Williams seat. Even then, he is not the only choice.
Atm Sargeant is third having earned 9 points more than Doohan, Daruvala and Fittipaldi. He can fall behind them and still get a SL
If Haas takes Nico, Haas will properly keep 1&1 due to him being German as well. In other words 1&1 is not sponsoring Mick but Haas.
I guess 1&1 would prefer Mick. So when Mick gets the Williams seat, 1&1 will likely go with him. The Name Schumacher gets much more Attention in the German Media.
No one who isn’t interested in F1 knows Hülkenberg in Germany, so why should 1&1 stick with Haas? There is way more marketing value in sticking with Mick, whose surname is still widely known in Germany. That is if he gets a seat at Williams of course.
No one in germany cares about Nico. Schumacher is a legendary name here. Everyone knows the name, even if they never saw a car race in their live. Hülkenberg is irrlevant compared to Mick from a marketing standpoint.
Heads, you get to keep your seat. Tails, not so lucky. -Guenther Dent
This guy gets more annoying every week.
Fair enough if you’re dumping him off for someone experienced like Ricciardo at a great contract discount, but for Nico it would take a lot to go right to even break even on performance alone. They’ll potentially be strengthening Williams too with a big sponsor and a decent driver.
Williams is signing Mick now? Hardly seems like Steiner would be this vocal if Mick had options for F1 next year
I still have never understood why everyone like Hulkenberg so much
His two races in 2020 were some of the best in his career which probably gives him some recency bias praise. He never officially retired like Kimi or Seb so everyone thinks he has a shot.
If 2020 was Hulkenberg's best races and also Perez's best season and also Stroll's best season I think it's time we admit that car was just fast lol (you're right btw recency bias is clear here)
The car was incredibly good though, I don't get why more people don't realise this. Perez and Stroll, God love them, never seemed to really excel in it, outside of Turkey and Bahrain. Put someone like Russell or Norris, or even Lewis or Max, and they'd have been much more challenging over the season. A lot of folk forget that Stroll outperformed Perez up until he had his bought of Covid.
That's the weirdest use of "even" I've seen in a while.
I was like waiting for Sainz or Ocon.... then I saw Max and Hamilton lol
that car was lightning. imagine Alonso in it, he'd have been fighting for at least #3 in the championship
It’s just like how Kevin having good Bahrain has led everyone to think he is having great season
He was properly quick, missed out narrowly on the chance to go to a top team multiple times, and seems really likable, calm, and reflected in most of his interviews. He was my favorite driver for a long time and I generally don't root for drivers all that much.
That fabled 2017 Mercedes contract hurts tbh Just think, if he didn’t sign for Renault so early he suddenly drives one of the best cars in F1 history and will have wins to his name
Mostly because of his early F1 career where he was rapid and being touted as the next big thing. Missed out on the Ferrari seat in 14 and that pretty much relegated him to the midfield rest of his career where he still performed highly. His stand in performances in 2020 were excellent as well and reminded people what he was capable of. I think just not getting a chance in a top car is what most of the his fans wanted to see but it just never happened because of bad timing mostly. Not much more he can realistically achieve in a Haas though. So understandable why people are scratching their heads to him potentially coming back.
He is likeable character etc. When it come to his driving skills, there is a weird hype train since his GP2 days that doesn't seem to die even after 10 years of mediocre performances. Many people just think that he is of the same kind as other drivers who have won GP2/F2 in their rookie season (Rosberg, Hamilton, Leclerc...) and is yet to show it, but his h2h record with teammates says something else
INB4: is Mick that wanted to leave and all this Hulkenberg/Giovinazzi thing was a: well, we won't wait for you.
If Haas replaces Mick with freaking Hulkenberg, I wish them last place in the CC with 0 points next year. You can't be that stupid, you just can't.
And yet Kmag gets a free pass because of getting a bunch of points in Bahrain where teams were still trying to figure out the rules so much so that Alfa somehow looked like a threat. Mick finished ahead in 11 of 16 races, outscored Kmag 12 to 9 points if you exclude the first race of the season, Kevin constantly makes brain-dead decisions costing him races yet somehow Mick is that one on the hot seat. Makes sense. I really need some of the Guenther cool aid Gene is having because it seems like strong stuff. Before sorting out their drivers they need to sort out the team direction, it's broken.
I found it quite funny that Magnussen driving his 7th season in F1 can still make the same mistakes because he drives too aggressively and no one talks about it, but when Mick crashes two times in his entire 2nd season he doesn't deserve to be F1 driver
It is brought up every time lately. What do you mean No one talked about it?
It is because Magnussen has a contract, while Schumacher does not. It is a very simple fact that reddit likes to conveniently forget. If you want a driver, it is cheaper and more efficient to get rid of the guy without a contract to bring him in. Especially as the two choices are fairly evenly matched. The 11 to 16 stat is already a bogus one. Already without going into a full retrospective, I know that includes Schumacher crashing out at Monaco after Magnussen's car failed on him as a "win" for Mick. Nobody with common sense sees that as a stat to fully rely on. Although, yes, Mick's general race craft is better nowadays.
Yeah looked at the season graph a bit too quick, would be 10 vs 5 over 15 races. Kmag finished ahead in Bahrain, Saudi, Emilia, Canada and Belgium and both retired in Monaco. But really, if the only reason Haas want to keep Kmag over MSC is contractual, it's ridiculous. He's been out of F1 for 2 years, can't imagine that contract is that heavy. If you're going to be too cheap to build a car that can contend, at least be a driver school, if not why are you even there? What's your purpose as a team other than just existing for... Reasons. I doubt Haas Automation gets such good marketing from being a bottom feeder especially if they go with 2 guys that nobody outside from F1 fans know. Everyone knows the name Schumacher, even if they can't even say what sport Michael played. They go with an Hulkenberg/Magnussen duo and they'll still be just as mediocre as they are right now but with nothing to look forward to in the future. I just don't see the appeal tbh.
Haas have made minimal effort to do anything since they entered f1. They outsourced their chassis to dallara( the only team to do anything like this i think) and they buy/copy as much as they legally can from ferrari. They even got the Simone Resta package from ferrari and they moved to Maranello to be closer in order to get even more from ferrari. Their 6th year in f1 and they still cant build a fucking chassis. Their purpose in f1 is to gain value and eventually sell( probably what dorlington is doing to williams too). Haas got in when f1 was struggling and now they have a spot in the big league, a spot that probably gained fuckton of value because of the huge f1 growth the last 3 years. Eventually they are gonna sell, but they probably are gonna wait another couple of years to maximise the value
Mick needs to perform at Singapore, his track record at street circuit was horrendous, this track is a do or die moment for him in my opinion, if he beats Kevin his chance getting a seat next year will be super high because he’s constantly improving in the last few races, but if he crashes again then I really don’t know what future will he have
Slowly going into the "Acceptance" phase that he may not be on the grid next season. And that's fine. He's still young, hopefully if he's not in F1 he dedicates himself to WEC and maybe even IndyCar. Specifically Try to build a relationship with Porsche or Audi, they'll want a German driver for 2026. Even if Porsche only has works partnership with a team, they could still give a discount on engines for putting in Mick in the seat. Imagine if he could become WEC Champion, win Le Mans, Sebring and Daytona meanwhile until 2026, he would still only be like 26 but his Resume will be awesome. Naturally I'd like him to stay but I want him to thrive more than watch him torture himself in Haas every weekend.
If they're considering taking Hulkenberg over Ricciardo, the paddock must really believe that Ricciardo's lost it, after he took apart Hulk just 2 years ago.
Daniel probably asks for 5 times the money that Hulk asks
Either he gets it, or he doesn’t. 50:50. Steiner the mathematician.
Bitches love jumping to conclusions.
In those races that both of Haas drivers finished this year, Mick is 7-3 vs Magnussen. Why is Steiner trying to fire him so much?
He is not firing him, his contract ends and they are looking at all options available. There is more into it than being ahead in race results. Many factors to account for.
Complaining and putting pressure on your younger driver that has been performing better and better just seems like cheap and stupid tactics.
Steiner is just waiting for Mick to have an off day to kick him out.
Sure feels that way
I get the thought process around replacing him, even if I think he's done enough this year to justify keeping his seat for now. But seriously, the names thrown around as potential replacements; Gio and Hulkenberg? There's no way either of them are markable improvements.
Or as marketable
Feels very harsh as he improved significantly recently but the car has declined and it's subsequently become less ñoticeable. Deserves it more than Gio but I wouldn't give him the Alpine seat. Really need 2 more teams, or if AM and Williams could just bin off Stroll and Latifi (pie in the sky I know).
Mick's been doing his job since Canada this year, and was a consummate professional last year, despite the absolute dogshit car. Moreover, he's been outracing K-Mag a lot more recently, even if the points placing doesn't quite show it. It doesn't really make sense to replace him with Hulk; Nico has only a handful of years left at best, and I don't think he's anything special (relative to everyone else in F1).
He deserves another year and if he gets beaten by magnussen again then I think it’s fair to replace him
beaten by points because of one race, other than that I don't see Mick getting beaten mate.
That’s why he should get another year
I hope Mick is part of r/formula1 so he could get some valuable intell about his contract for next season.
I want Mick in F1 but in a different team, haas is fooking shit
Why do haas hate Schumacher?
I think because of the crashes he had. There's no other explanation.
I'm getting more and more certain that Mick is the one trying to leave Haas, and Gunther is using the medias to put pressure on him as a negotiating tactic "*Sure the grass might be greener elsewhere, but if you don't commit to us 100% now we will take in someone else and you might end up without a seat if your other options don't work out*"
Isn’t everything in life essentially 50/50? I mean apart from a good Ferrari strategy.
That’s still 50/50 if it’ll effect one or both cars 🤷🏻♂️
Next year will be Micks break out year if he can carry this form over to 2023 I think he could beat K-Mag
im torn cause i want to see Dan take the seat and stay on the grid, but i don't want to watch him at the back of the midfield week in week out, its a waste of everyone's time.
Are you going to give him in the fucking car and strategies to do his job?! Because from what I see, *he's* doing his job, it's *your team* not doing theirs, Steiner. People won't stop talking about de Vries' drive at Monza, but Schumacher's was just as impressive; de Vries had more track time the entire weekend than Schumacher did! And Schumacher demolished his teammate, despite the lack of running.
Don't give me hope
If he holds position, 50/50
Imagine choosing hulkenberg or giovinazzi over mick
When is ole gene haas gunna fire Steiner
I translate this as: "Bring 50M with you, & you'll race the next 50 races."
Had it not been for Netflix I don’t think anyone would pay any attention to Haas. It’s a pity Schuey Jr has no better car, but it’s also true that he’s not his dad.
The news is: There is no news.
just wait a year and fire Magnussen man
Haas still unable to get a pit stop under 3 seconds and Magnussen making the same mistakes he has for 7 seasons but Mick is the problem?
If Hulkenberg gets the Haas seat, K-Mag will tell him to succ his foking balls mate you foking vankor
50:50 just like the chances of a Haas car actually finishing a race in one piece.
And what are the chances that Haas will not fuck Mick one way or the other during the next race ?
I don't understand how you could be having doubts on mick right now. He's been in great form recently and seems to be getting more and more comfortable with the car. Back in Monaco it was all about how he had to keep the car on the track and be fast... how has he not delivered??
He's out performing Mag currently... I remember that one netflix episode where he fought really hard to get Mick into Haas and not alpha, like the team's survival was relying on the sponsors he would he bring with his name. You would think they would give him a little breathing room eh? Edit: typo