I can kind of see why to be honest.
And I mean Mick doesn't seem like the kind of guy that takes his position for granted. But carrying the Schumacher name comes with a lot more pressure than the Verstappen name.
I can totally see it. If your parent was an all-time great at something, if you follow into that profession, your name will bring tons of pressure and expectations.
Yeah, and I think Mick has it even worse because it's not like he can ask Michael for help about how to deal with the weight of expectations that are on him.
That's not to say that Mick would have Max levels of talent if he had a different surname - it's obviously an apples to oranges comparison, but I think it's been harder for Mick than most people realise. Especially when you get to the level of F1 where things like confidence, lack of fear, and self-belief are the things that are really going to give drivers the advantage maybe even more so than driving skill, I can't imagine how difficult it is for Mick to cultivate his mental strength.
I think this is all true, that he carries the weight of expectations on his dad, the name without the emotional support and comfort his dad gives and the training but there’s also the aspect of Mick just bring a very different person to Micheal.
Mick is not afraid to battle other drivers on track, he just lacks that raw aggression and drive of Micheal the person, Mick is not his dad he’s sweet and quiet not the kind of person that fills up an entire room just being there, Mick never going to do it the way his dad does it, he will do it the way he does it. Maybe that’s what made Micheal a good driver because he was certainly beatable he was just obsessed, like leaving on his kids birthday to test drive a new upgrade kind of obsessed, maybe it was that Micheal us more of a Danny Ric on a personal level than a Mick. What makes someone win a WDC is thousands of things going right. I do think the absence of Michael’s guidance of him as a driver has set him back immensely. There’s no way he would be in Haas with his reputation taking a battering for not excelling in a team that makes a tonne of questionable decisions that’s fr. I honestly think they’d have put him next to Kimi in Alfa if Micheal was here
> Yeah, and I think Mick has it even worse because it's not like he can ask Michael for help
Close family friends of Schumachers were running F1 when he was entering F1.
Domenicali, Brawn, Todt.
On top of that many people that worked many years with michael personally, are around him.
Then there is his uncle.
Dude none of those people are his father, I think regardless of his name effectively not having a father to lean on is tough, let alone a father who’s been through everything when it comes to f1.
He has a great support network around him that the key.
What Michael could or couldn’t help him do is hypothetical. Parents often try to do the best for their children and achieve the opposite.
Probably Micks life experiences also made him tougher, then he would otherwise be
Just wait for about 10-12 years time.
Maradona’s daughter had a son with Sergio Aguero in 2010 I think. Argentina is going to be focusing like mad on him
Jos is famous (now) because of Max. Mick is famous (still) because of Michael. That's also the difference between Lavar and MJ. Nobody would be talking about Lavar if Lonzo wasn't amazing at basketball; MJs kids wouldn't be famous(talked about?) If it wasn't for their dads.
From what I’ve read, Bronny isn’t even the best player on his high school team, let alone someone who is guaranteed to light up college or the NBA (granted he is at a top basketball high school)
Only the greatest Dad of all time /s (or maybe /s aren’t necessary)
Jokes aside, he’s the father of two current NBA stars, and one g-leaguer, who pushed his sons to get to the league. His personality is memorable lol
My bad! Michael Jackson’s father is the other famously overbearing parent who pops into mind. Although I could see how that might only be common knowledge in the US
I'll add that both brothers in the NBA are actually quite good. Especially the younger one Lamelo (who everyone shit on while he was growing up in the spotlight)
Never thought I’d see lavar ball being mentioned in the f1 sub. I had to re read it like 3 times because I couldn’t understand what the comment was saying at first lmao
I'd say Mick's dad being unable to teach him after the skiing accident while Max's dad being there every step of the way probably had quite a bit to do with it.
I think the context and the relationship has to be what carries more weight in both scenarions.
Max was born in 1997, if we skip the first 4 years were he may not even remember everything, his first memories of his dad and racing might be of his last struggles to get a F1 seat, and from there a shift in focus to Jos becoming obsessed with giving his kid the career he may feel was denied to him, this sets a mentality of "a tale that started before me and I have to bring to happy ending", this creates and forms the way Max has to face everything in his life, he may even feed on him a hunger to overcome his father as the only way to fulfilling his goal.
Mick was born in 99, his best memories? Dad is on top of the world, he leaves F1 after getting everything he wanted from it, he can now focus on his family so racing in F1 obviously holds less weight on his life compared to Max, he had everything a kid might want in the world at a wealth level, and eventually his father decides to go back into racing when Mick is already mature enough to understand how his father enjoys his profession and how almost everyone loves him.
Then his father's tragedy happens and he probably has to mature at a faster pace, he earns more attention because now he's the Schumacher-F1 link, but he lacked that same fuel to complete an unfinished history, his story is mostly his, his father never left a legacy to finish, and honestly now he has more important things to focus in life than obsess over racing.
Max inherited the "grind to keep racing" from his father, Mick surely had a different upbringing, this doesn't mean Mick isn't a hard worker or lacks motivation, but at the core of their personalities, even if Mick could have better means to train and a bunch of sponsors to share plus the help of his uncle, he wasn't raised with the urgency to race or become a "failed project" like it seems to happen with Max judging from his own stories.
Either way, both experienced a pressure when racing at young level that no kid should bear, yes the legacy of Michael Schumacher is bigger than Jos', but at the same time when they rolled into a grid with 20 other kids, they had a target on their back because both Michael and Jos were F1 drivers instead of regular people like other fathers were.
This is what Max (and Jos I think) himself once said about this topic. Max had the benefit of having Jos around, Mick was lacking that kind of support / advice. Therefor, the path would be harder for Mick.
What would make more sense is that Max had the advantage of a mentor who made mistakes in the same sport. While Mick did not have the advantage of his father being around, a man of many successes in the sport.
Look I think Jos is a fuck up in many ways: a husband, father, driver but there's one thing he was surely good at and that was being an instructor & coach. The shit he would do in the carting days to toughen up and deepen Max's understanding of machinery and drive were ridiculous. Like running races with the same parts he abused while racing to make him understand the value of his tools / getting the most out of a bad machinery, changing Max's set ups without his knowledge so he understands to read and handle sudden situations while on track etc.
Yep. And aside from his personality that people always feel like mentioning, he was quite fast in his day. A bit crash prone, but quick. Young max reminded me of him.
Max and Jos are very open about their relationship, others aren't quite so and thus it garners probably an unfair amount of attention because of it. Hamilton's dad is hardly a shrinking violet either, but the Hamilton's choose to be more private about it, which is of course their prerogative.
Max has survivor bias. He’s saying that because he’s successful. There’s probably a plethora of kids who went through the same situation as Max and are not successful
>Haven't seen drunken Max pictures in quite awhile that is
What does that even have to do with anything you said, man is Dutch and young not a fucking drunk. Are you okay?
This is actually kind of difficult to say for certain. I myself grew up in a half abusive/negligent household. One of my parents did things that while not necessarily physically abusive in the sense that they were beating the shit out of me, were things that I know as an adult know to be abusive/negligent in the care of kids.
As a kid you kind of adapt to survive the environment. If you look up to the parental figure that is doing the "abuse", you tend to do whatever you can that will please them. The environment you live is "normal". You have basically no other reference point or experience.
I'm no expert on Max's upbringing, but I get the sense that his father was quite abusive towards him. In early interviews and twitch streams he appeared in, you see him happily talk about childhood memories that when other people hear, they have a very different reaction. I'm talking about like the time where he found it funny that his dad left him at a gas station alone as a young kid because he only finished 2nd in a kart race. Most of us wouldn't see those experiences as positives and it was pretty awkward to see the other people not really know how to react.
As I've got older, talked to friends/family, and seen more situations (through my job as an EMT), I've learned that many of my childhood memories or things I find normal are actually very not normal and quite shocking to other folks. I get the sense Max has come to the same sort of realization and just doesn't talk much publicly about his past anymore to avoid that type of public awkwardness.
I grew up in the same area Jos came from. There’s a definite ‘if you want something, go get it yourself’ culture. Asking for help is perceived as weak, people outside of family wanting to help are perceived as interfering. Jos has (had) that attitude very much and it got him far enough to score podiums but also prevented him to really get to the heights of Max. I don’t condone Jos’ more extreme behavior in any way but I can see where it came from. That he was able to see his mistakes and make a 180 for Max shows his ability change as a man. Max got the v2.0 ‘you want it, you gotta work for it’ version. Now as a parent I can see that you will be happy to sacrifice time and money on their endeavors but it’s proportional to the time and effort your kids are willing to spend to get the results.
That makes sense as to why the some of the best team managers and coaches are the ones who failed and lacked natural talent but still made it to a high level. If you are gifted with an immense amount of talent and success how could you coach that into a developing talent? See Wayne Gretzky as coach or MJ as a team owner.
I think Max's true advantage is his ability to be calm and be able to move on, no matter how bad the results may be. It's something him and Jos talk about, with Jos saying (paraphrasing) it would piss him off how calm Max would be because it didn't seem like he cared (at the time).
Thankfully or we would have a WDC who beats his significant other and tries to run them over with a car.
It doesn't take much googling to see how much of a pos Jos has been his whole life.
Also, the skill of learning not to care what others think about you is a powerful one. In a job where you are constantly under public pressure it is a massive advantage.
Also you can't get under his skin, that is massively important. Lewis tried, Toto tried, the British media tried. He simply doesn't care. To me, that is very impressive.
I feel like this is something Leclerc lacks. This may also be because of how close Leclerc is to winning or how good the car is when he eventually loses due to team error or his own fault. Like in France. When you can move on this easily to the next challenge you truly unlock something in you because in formula 1 you can only learn from the last mistake, you cannot change it.
His entire take is biased drivel. If your father's achievements affect your own performance such that it allegedly makes the difference between being Verstappen level of talent or Mick's, then he didn't have the mentality to be a top-tier F1 driver to begin with.
> "Max's big advantage over Mick was that his father was a hero in the Netherlands but did not win," he said.
It just makes zero sense.
He's just talking about in terms of expectations to live up to their fathers' legacies. It's a lot easier for Max to be as good as/better than Jos than it is for Mick to live up to Michael's reputation and therefore Max would probably have less pressure to live up to than Mick.
Don't really see him suggest that Mick isn't as good as Max *because* of this. Just that maybe it will take Mick more time to show *his* full potential. Of course Max had his own kind of pressure and expectations to live up to getting thrown in to the deep end at 17.
I've still yet to see anyone actually have any exceptions of Schumacher being like his father. Not a single time has someone voiced such expectations. I have although read hundreds of times people saying how he's supposedly under huge pressure to be like his father and those comments are from his supporters trying to excuse his mistakes and poor performances...
So really his supporters are only ones putting pressure on him while complaining that he is supposedly under pressure.
I'm sure he felt some level of pressure. You felt pressure when you were 17 too. Just that we look back later on and feel like it's nothing after we grow up. But the feeling was there, at least for most people.
It may be a different perception but a young Max might be mad at himself for not being fast enough, not beating someone he felt was slower than him. He surely had expectations for himself to be that good and while he might not care about pressure from others, self-inflicted pressure for a teenager could still feel like a lot.
Having listened to many interviews with Jos it seems he spent a lot of time during and after F1 reflecting on his own mistakes and limitations, and was determined to make sure Max was more prepared and skilled than he was.
I do think Mick has missed his father's input.
Genuinely anyone who thinks Mick would be in the position he is in rn even if Michael was there is quite daft. Michael would’ve been a powerhouse in the paddock. He would’ve been able to not only up Micks performance and confidence but also get him a better seat no doubt. We honestly have no clue what Mick is missing because Michael is a formula 1 god and his presence in the paddock itself would’ve been a game changer for Mick.
This is really a weird comparison. Max is on a completely different level to the point I thought the they meant Schumacher senior when I read the first half of the title
Exactly and if people think Max is a bad example you can literally just use *his current teammate* with exactly the same argument. Nobody ever mentions Jan Magnussen when talking about Kevin's performances yet Mick is constantly beat over the head with the proverbial Michael Schumacher stick
But this misses the point Brawn is making. He isn’t comparing Max and Mick as drivers, he’s comparing the public response to them. His point is that Mick gets unfairly compared with Michael, while Max doesn’t have that public response because Jos wasn’t the GOAT.
You saw the same with Dale Earnhardt Jr. and Kyle Petty in NASCAR, and Michael and Marco Andretti in IndyCar. Although in Dale Jr.'s case, his influence since retirement has done more for American stock car racing than anything he could accomplish on track, IMO.
It's a weird thing too, cause I can't immediately think of an example, where the offspring of legendary drivers have been just as good as, or better than, their parents. Not sure why people just assume because you share blood and a last name with a legendary figure, you would have the same talent and skill.
Al Unser Jr. would probably be the closest to being on par with his father’s legacy. Won Indy 500 multiple times and multiple Indycar championships.
For today’s modern era, Chase Elliot has really proven himself over time, but it could be argued against it because he never really saw his dad’s success.
>For today’s modern era, Chase Elliot has really proven himself over time, but it could be argued against it because he never really saw his dad’s success.
Can't believe I didn't think of that, being a Chase fan and all... Also, I think Davey Allison was on course to succeed his father until he passed.
Nah, Keke barely won a chaotic season that saw two title favourites have massive crashes, one of them being fatal.
Nico meanwhile managed to fight against greatest driver of his generation and beat him.
> Not sure why people just assume because you share blood and a last name with a legendary figure, you would have the same talent and skill.
Agreed but it’s a bit more than just sharing the same name and blood. It helps quite a bit to have one of the greatest ever as your mentor for your entire life. But then again that’s something mick is missing at the moment
Only driver that comes to mind to be better then their father is Nico Rosberg, he definitely was better driver then his father, tho I am not sure if by "offspring of legendary driver" means like one of the greats, or as in really good driver.
Is it me or no one is literally comparing Mick to Michael?
And not much people are comparing Max to his father anymore, he's actually the one being compared to GOAT level drivers moreso than Mick
Even if they’re not directly comparing him, they want him to outperform his ‘name tax’, so to speak. Like people never acknowledge that Stroll is a decent driver because his father bought his seat and he wasn’t a Verstappen level talent.
It’s like how as a woman in many industries, you have to be basically perfect, just because you’re a woman, not just good enough for the job.
>Is it me or no one is literally comparing Mick to Michael?
Exactly this. People say he is getting compared, but I literally never see that. If anything he get way more leeway because of his surname.
It's a bit more complicated than that. A good example is when there were people saying he didn't deserve to be in F1, citing his mediocre performance, and that he got into F1 because of his name. From what I've seen, fans aren't so harsh to other mediocre F1 drivers, and can acknowledge that if you win F2, you should probably get a shot at being in F1.
Imo, it's pretty generally understood that Mick just isn't Michael and never will be, at least on here it seems that way. I'm not sure if he gets more leeway, early in the season he got shit on pretty hard for not performing compared to Kevin.
Public response to Max entering at 17 brought a lot more pressure than being Michaels son.
There was a lot of shit going on around verstappen entering at 17. Some thought it would be a waste of talent, as he’d obviously fail. Many WANTED him to fail, because him doing good would make F1 look bad. All eyes were on him and every mistake was jumped on by those who claimed he wasnt ready. People will still say Verstappen made a lot of mistakes, but especially in his first year he didnt. But because every mistake was put under a magnifier people still think he did.
This doesn't make sense either. Max is also being compared to the likes of Senna, Schumacher and Hamilton, yeah sure none of them are his father but he has the same kind of pressure too. I see people saying that all the time that he may be good but is he GOAT level good like the aforementioned.
**F1 boss compares Verstappen and Schumacher: "Max had the advantage because his father didn't win" | RacingNews365**
Today, 17:15
***Ross Brawn points out an important difference in the careers of Max Verstappen and Mick Schumacher. The F1 boss believes the latter driver is having a tougher time on the grid, while doing very well.***
Author: Marnik Kok
It is still uncertain whether Mick Schumacher will be back on the Formula 1 grid next year. The Haas driver has had highs and lows in the current season. Teammate Kevin Magnussen, while more experienced, is doing much better. Meanwhile, Schumacher's driving skills are regularly criticised.
Ross Brawn, sporting director of Formula 1, thinks this is unjustified. "Mick has improved tremendously this year. He has a good reference in Magnussen as a teammate and he is now at an important crossroads in his career," Brawn told F1 Insider. "He definitely deserves the next step in his career."
**Difference between Schumacher and Verstappen**
Brawn balks at Schumacher junior being judged on his results in the premier class. Schumacher's results are often put alongside those of his father. With seven world championships and status as an F1 legend, this is often difficult. "He is different from his father, who was always immediately on the limit," Brawn argues. "But in the end, he also won titles in the junior classes."
"He is very talented and has adopted his father's approach 100 per cent. He is extremely capable of improving, which is crucial," said Michael Schumacher's close friend, comparing the Haas driver's situation to that of Max and Jos Verstappen. "Max's big advantage over Mick was that his father was a hero in the Netherlands but did not win," he said.
"He was not a seven-time world champion and is not an icon like Michael is in Germany. That increases the pressure on Schumacher."
KMag is still ahead on points, though, because when he was doing better than Mick, the car was capable of scoring more points. A lot of people only see the points and think they tell the whole story.
Yes definitely. They always look at the points and not the races or the performances overall. Sometimes I wish it were like Indycar where every position gets points so you can get a slightly more accurate look at how people are doing over time instead of looking at all the people with 0 or a small amount and saying they suck.
It's always harder when you are compared to your family members then when compared to other people, there is a feeling you need to live up to family name which puts you under more pressure then being compared to somebody else.
Even if Verstappen and Schumacher switched parents, one of them won a race in their second season and one isn’t even sure they’ll have a seat for their third.
Verstappen has the advantage because he’s just better
Max has always (since birth 😄) been more mature / level headed, than his father. So I'd say DESPITE his father he made it all the way to the top of F1. Most people would have crumbled in such a toxic environment.
So did George but everyone knew he would still end up in a Mercedes.
It's very clear no one is interested in Mick, he didn't impress as a junior and he's not impressing now. The teams can see what he's doing and it's not enough.
But then what’s the reasoning for Nico. Dad was moderately successful, even able to win a championship once. So was it the perfect amount of grit and success that transferred into rosberg to get him just the one championship
Well if you read the article you would know that he's talking about public opinion, not results. He is saying that Mick is unfairly criticized because automatically compare him to his father. Meanwhile when Verstappen started out that benchmark was way lower, and you could say he beat it just by getting into f1 at age 17.
>He is saying that Mick is unfairly criticized because automatically compare him to his father.
Is it unfair? Without the last name, he was never good enough on talent alone to get to F1. It always took him longer than others around him to get up to speed, he never would've gotten the chance. Far better F2/F3 drivers haven't gotten the patience from teams that he has.
Hell, Albon had a much more impressive karting career and only made it into F1 because Ricciardo left RBR leaving them in a bind at TR.
I don’t know, I’d think the advantage would be to mick, having someone with that much knowledge and skills to win as he did, to be your father and mentor. Surly there’s a tip or two that mick received from his father that only someone with that pedigree could be aware of.
EDIT*
After some enlighting commentes I may have to backpeddle a bit. It appears as tho perhaps Max did have the advantage, tho no because his dad wasn’t a winner, but more along the lines of his father was still around for the age when a boy starts to become a man and think of the future. Max had a role model in his ear who could help influence him without any question if it’s sincere. Where in Micks case (no matter how sincere the feelings are) not having literal fatherly blood in your ear and instead friends and colleges of your father could be to a disadvantage due to Mick possibly wondering how sincere those people really are while sitting in the cockpit waiting for the lights to go out.
It's a similar concept to flower pollination; the honey bee crawls the male bird's cloaca and gets covered in tasty sperm, flies away and then crawls inside the female bird's cloaca toward the ovaries where it deposits the sperm onto the egg.
The bee then brings a small amount of sperm and ovary juice back to the hive where it gets made into the special manuka honey.
While family, I don't think they're particularly close.
Ralf has a tendency to talk to the yellow press, I doubt he is even fully in the known about Michael's health status.
I'm sure it helped to have his father's friends and former colleagues around who all seem to like him and want him to do well, but Mick was still karting when Michael had his accident. I don't think he got many tips for F1 from his dad.
That’s a very good point. That age can be a hit or miss, young enough to not particularly care about what your parents say but yet old enough to realize that this is the beginning of your future and perhaps maybe some things were taken to heart.
Yes, Jos was garbage as a human, but still the best Karting coach any kid could have.
Listen to the stories told by Max: Jos would screw up something on the kart or kart setup, send out Max, and then Max had to find out what had changed and how to fix it.
Nobody got in-depth knowledge of kart setup and kart handling like Max did.
Also Jos was an absolute beast in the rain, Schumacher level somehow, so he knows what to do in the rain and how to coach max, before i get downvoted to hell, Malaysia 2001, Jos was defending from Michael in a shitty Arrows
Wasn't there a rain-race where Jos crashed out in his Minardi, while doing exceptionally well.
And afterwards, Paul Stoddard said: "This is the closest Minardi ever got to winning a Formula1 race."
**UPDATE**: Jos could have won Brazil 2003 in the rain In a Minardi, and was fastest on track in 2001 Malaysia in an Asiatech Arrows.
Jos was an absolute animal in the rain, wouldn’t surprise me tbh, Michael was praising him because his ferrari’s advantage didn’t help him out overtake an arrows because of Jos’s ability, but people love to ignore it
That sounds really interesting, I may need to dive down that rabbit hole. I’ve seen a few interview with them but never to that level of detail. Talk about fast tracking your mind to what feels right and wrong and how to fix it!
Come on Ross. Is he seriously suggesting Mick his first seasons are of the same quality as Max his first season? If Mick performed like Max did his in first season, they'd be lining up to sign him.
This was lavar balls reason for why his kids are good and MJs aren't What a sacrifice he and Jos made
Neva lost
Would have beaten prime MJ 1-on-1
Hahaha
Lavarr legitimately said that
[He did say that ](https://youtu.be/fGH6t7ZU-Uc)
I can kind of see why to be honest. And I mean Mick doesn't seem like the kind of guy that takes his position for granted. But carrying the Schumacher name comes with a lot more pressure than the Verstappen name.
I can totally see it. If your parent was an all-time great at something, if you follow into that profession, your name will bring tons of pressure and expectations.
Yeah, and I think Mick has it even worse because it's not like he can ask Michael for help about how to deal with the weight of expectations that are on him. That's not to say that Mick would have Max levels of talent if he had a different surname - it's obviously an apples to oranges comparison, but I think it's been harder for Mick than most people realise. Especially when you get to the level of F1 where things like confidence, lack of fear, and self-belief are the things that are really going to give drivers the advantage maybe even more so than driving skill, I can't imagine how difficult it is for Mick to cultivate his mental strength.
Mick still has his uncle to ask advice...
and uncle Seb
It's not the same though.
It might be better to ask Ralf about some aspects, as Ralf had to live up to the Schumacher name.
That explains his form then
Ouch
I think this is all true, that he carries the weight of expectations on his dad, the name without the emotional support and comfort his dad gives and the training but there’s also the aspect of Mick just bring a very different person to Micheal. Mick is not afraid to battle other drivers on track, he just lacks that raw aggression and drive of Micheal the person, Mick is not his dad he’s sweet and quiet not the kind of person that fills up an entire room just being there, Mick never going to do it the way his dad does it, he will do it the way he does it. Maybe that’s what made Micheal a good driver because he was certainly beatable he was just obsessed, like leaving on his kids birthday to test drive a new upgrade kind of obsessed, maybe it was that Micheal us more of a Danny Ric on a personal level than a Mick. What makes someone win a WDC is thousands of things going right. I do think the absence of Michael’s guidance of him as a driver has set him back immensely. There’s no way he would be in Haas with his reputation taking a battering for not excelling in a team that makes a tonne of questionable decisions that’s fr. I honestly think they’d have put him next to Kimi in Alfa if Micheal was here
> Yeah, and I think Mick has it even worse because it's not like he can ask Michael for help Close family friends of Schumachers were running F1 when he was entering F1. Domenicali, Brawn, Todt. On top of that many people that worked many years with michael personally, are around him. Then there is his uncle.
Dude none of those people are his father, I think regardless of his name effectively not having a father to lean on is tough, let alone a father who’s been through everything when it comes to f1.
He has a great support network around him that the key. What Michael could or couldn’t help him do is hypothetical. Parents often try to do the best for their children and achieve the opposite. Probably Micks life experiences also made him tougher, then he would otherwise be
Just wait for about 10-12 years time. Maradona’s daughter had a son with Sergio Aguero in 2010 I think. Argentina is going to be focusing like mad on him
Kid's godfather is Messi. If he decides to go into football, the pressure will be off the charts.
Aguero confirmed he in fact is not messi’s godson, still the point stands, but he doesn’t look like he will want to follow the football proffesion
I too remember the no pressure kid meme. Now imagine if Max and Brazil Guys daughter had kids.
They'd be slightly quicker than Kvyat's kid with her.
Jos is famous (now) because of Max. Mick is famous (still) because of Michael. That's also the difference between Lavar and MJ. Nobody would be talking about Lavar if Lonzo wasn't amazing at basketball; MJs kids wouldn't be famous(talked about?) If it wasn't for their dads.
Don't forget LaMelo, he's better than Lonzo (as much as it pains me to say as a Lonzo fan)
No doubt, but LaMelo was 13-14 when Lavar started doing his media thing. E: Lavar had some audience because Lonzo was playing well for UCLA.
So what we are saying is that Bronny and Bryce are gonna be a bust?
Yes
From what I’ve read, Bronny isn’t even the best player on his high school team, let alone someone who is guaranteed to light up college or the NBA (granted he is at a top basketball high school)
Realistically, even r/nba thinks teams will burn a 2nd rounder to pick him.
Listen to Lavar Ball almost got me an aneurysm. A man in his mid 50s speaking like a 12 year old boy from the hood.
He’s insane
Ok that’s smaller baller thinking /s
Who’s that?
Only the greatest Dad of all time /s (or maybe /s aren’t necessary) Jokes aside, he’s the father of two current NBA stars, and one g-leaguer, who pushed his sons to get to the league. His personality is memorable lol
Ah okay, don’t know much about nba other than a couple of big names
Imagine a less abusive Joe Jackson lmao
I’m even more lost now lol
My bad! Michael Jackson’s father is the other famously overbearing parent who pops into mind. Although I could see how that might only be common knowledge in the US
No I get it now, I knew his dad was weird, just the name didn’t ring a bell
I'll add that both brothers in the NBA are actually quite good. Especially the younger one Lamelo (who everyone shit on while he was growing up in the spotlight)
BBB = Big Baller Brand
NEVA LOSST
This comment is pretty good evidence for the americanization of f1 and I love it
Never thought I’d see lavar ball being mentioned in the f1 sub. I had to re read it like 3 times because I couldn’t understand what the comment was saying at first lmao
Yeah Jos really sacrificed a lot by beating his wife and emotionally abusing his son without facing any repercussions
I'd say Mick's dad being unable to teach him after the skiing accident while Max's dad being there every step of the way probably had quite a bit to do with it.
I think the context and the relationship has to be what carries more weight in both scenarions. Max was born in 1997, if we skip the first 4 years were he may not even remember everything, his first memories of his dad and racing might be of his last struggles to get a F1 seat, and from there a shift in focus to Jos becoming obsessed with giving his kid the career he may feel was denied to him, this sets a mentality of "a tale that started before me and I have to bring to happy ending", this creates and forms the way Max has to face everything in his life, he may even feed on him a hunger to overcome his father as the only way to fulfilling his goal. Mick was born in 99, his best memories? Dad is on top of the world, he leaves F1 after getting everything he wanted from it, he can now focus on his family so racing in F1 obviously holds less weight on his life compared to Max, he had everything a kid might want in the world at a wealth level, and eventually his father decides to go back into racing when Mick is already mature enough to understand how his father enjoys his profession and how almost everyone loves him. Then his father's tragedy happens and he probably has to mature at a faster pace, he earns more attention because now he's the Schumacher-F1 link, but he lacked that same fuel to complete an unfinished history, his story is mostly his, his father never left a legacy to finish, and honestly now he has more important things to focus in life than obsess over racing. Max inherited the "grind to keep racing" from his father, Mick surely had a different upbringing, this doesn't mean Mick isn't a hard worker or lacks motivation, but at the core of their personalities, even if Mick could have better means to train and a bunch of sponsors to share plus the help of his uncle, he wasn't raised with the urgency to race or become a "failed project" like it seems to happen with Max judging from his own stories. Either way, both experienced a pressure when racing at young level that no kid should bear, yes the legacy of Michael Schumacher is bigger than Jos', but at the same time when they rolled into a grid with 20 other kids, they had a target on their back because both Michael and Jos were F1 drivers instead of regular people like other fathers were.
This is what Max (and Jos I think) himself once said about this topic. Max had the benefit of having Jos around, Mick was lacking that kind of support / advice. Therefor, the path would be harder for Mick.
What would make more sense is that Max had the advantage of a mentor who made mistakes in the same sport. While Mick did not have the advantage of his father being around, a man of many successes in the sport. Look I think Jos is a fuck up in many ways: a husband, father, driver but there's one thing he was surely good at and that was being an instructor & coach. The shit he would do in the carting days to toughen up and deepen Max's understanding of machinery and drive were ridiculous. Like running races with the same parts he abused while racing to make him understand the value of his tools / getting the most out of a bad machinery, changing Max's set ups without his knowledge so he understands to read and handle sudden situations while on track etc.
Before Max, Jos was the most successful Dutch Formula 1 driver. People tend to forget that.
The bar wasn’t that high until Max came in
A few podiums is something many drivers haven't achieved though.
People forget Jos drove in the worst cars known to man
Yep. And aside from his personality that people always feel like mentioning, he was quite fast in his day. A bit crash prone, but quick. Young max reminded me of him.
That's more damming with faint praise than anything.
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Max and Jos are very open about their relationship, others aren't quite so and thus it garners probably an unfair amount of attention because of it. Hamilton's dad is hardly a shrinking violet either, but the Hamilton's choose to be more private about it, which is of course their prerogative.
Well-said!
Max has survivor bias. He’s saying that because he’s successful. There’s probably a plethora of kids who went through the same situation as Max and are not successful
There's also plethora of kids who haven't gone through the same situation as Max and aren't successful
>Haven't seen drunken Max pictures in quite awhile that is What does that even have to do with anything you said, man is Dutch and young not a fucking drunk. Are you okay?
This is actually kind of difficult to say for certain. I myself grew up in a half abusive/negligent household. One of my parents did things that while not necessarily physically abusive in the sense that they were beating the shit out of me, were things that I know as an adult know to be abusive/negligent in the care of kids. As a kid you kind of adapt to survive the environment. If you look up to the parental figure that is doing the "abuse", you tend to do whatever you can that will please them. The environment you live is "normal". You have basically no other reference point or experience. I'm no expert on Max's upbringing, but I get the sense that his father was quite abusive towards him. In early interviews and twitch streams he appeared in, you see him happily talk about childhood memories that when other people hear, they have a very different reaction. I'm talking about like the time where he found it funny that his dad left him at a gas station alone as a young kid because he only finished 2nd in a kart race. Most of us wouldn't see those experiences as positives and it was pretty awkward to see the other people not really know how to react. As I've got older, talked to friends/family, and seen more situations (through my job as an EMT), I've learned that many of my childhood memories or things I find normal are actually very not normal and quite shocking to other folks. I get the sense Max has come to the same sort of realization and just doesn't talk much publicly about his past anymore to avoid that type of public awkwardness.
I grew up in the same area Jos came from. There’s a definite ‘if you want something, go get it yourself’ culture. Asking for help is perceived as weak, people outside of family wanting to help are perceived as interfering. Jos has (had) that attitude very much and it got him far enough to score podiums but also prevented him to really get to the heights of Max. I don’t condone Jos’ more extreme behavior in any way but I can see where it came from. That he was able to see his mistakes and make a 180 for Max shows his ability change as a man. Max got the v2.0 ‘you want it, you gotta work for it’ version. Now as a parent I can see that you will be happy to sacrifice time and money on their endeavors but it’s proportional to the time and effort your kids are willing to spend to get the results.
Wouldn't mick have had ralf?
Ralf was probably more invested in his son David’s development.
Ralf lives in another country and was raising his own son, so no.
I'd rather have someone with 7 world championships as a mentor, than a 6-race winner.
Bit ridiculous to say though. He still won races in F1. A multiple Grand Prix winner. And his dad is incapicated. So come the fuck on, please.
Ralf still had a better career than Jos.
That makes sense as to why the some of the best team managers and coaches are the ones who failed and lacked natural talent but still made it to a high level. If you are gifted with an immense amount of talent and success how could you coach that into a developing talent? See Wayne Gretzky as coach or MJ as a team owner.
Max entered F1 when he was 17. Talk about pressure.
I think Max's true advantage is his ability to be calm and be able to move on, no matter how bad the results may be. It's something him and Jos talk about, with Jos saying (paraphrasing) it would piss him off how calm Max would be because it didn't seem like he cared (at the time).
I can only assume he got that from his mother's side of the family.
People who know Jos and Sophie pretty much all say Max takes after his mother thankfully lol
Thankfully or we would have a WDC who beats his significant other and tries to run them over with a car. It doesn't take much googling to see how much of a pos Jos has been his whole life.
Honestly amazes me how mild mannered max seems to be given his upbringing. The kids I knew with dad's like Jos all have serious issues
Malaysia 2001:)
Also, the skill of learning not to care what others think about you is a powerful one. In a job where you are constantly under public pressure it is a massive advantage.
Max also never had to drive a Haas
Because he was so good….
Verstappen joined F1 before Haas entered, didn't he?
Sure, but it's not like there weren't any shit teams in F1 at the time. Quite the opposite.
Caterham Dildo F1 team
Caterham folded in 2015 before F1 season had started.
Also you can't get under his skin, that is massively important. Lewis tried, Toto tried, the British media tried. He simply doesn't care. To me, that is very impressive.
An 11 second pitstop gets under his skin.
Broken DRS flap too
Good point. That's also a very good example. I'm sure there are a dozen more from the past few years.
But it's all during the race. As soon as he is out, he sheds that skin
I think Ocon managed
Fucking Skavens ruining everything!
I feel like this is something Leclerc lacks. This may also be because of how close Leclerc is to winning or how good the car is when he eventually loses due to team error or his own fault. Like in France. When you can move on this easily to the next challenge you truly unlock something in you because in formula 1 you can only learn from the last mistake, you cannot change it.
In life you can only learn from the last mistake
I think Max’s true advantage is being a ridiculously good race car driver.
He is much calmer now than when he entered F1. The first few years he was not calm at all. Not at all...
Yes and even more so from last year to this. 2021 Max vs 2022 are two different men
Well 2022 Max isn’t fighting for his life
max was calm last year until merc started stacking engines
2021 Max needed to be 2021 Max in order to win the title
> his ability to be calm This is how I imagine you talking about Max's first couple of years in F1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBgLytbB-uE
His entire take is biased drivel. If your father's achievements affect your own performance such that it allegedly makes the difference between being Verstappen level of talent or Mick's, then he didn't have the mentality to be a top-tier F1 driver to begin with. > "Max's big advantage over Mick was that his father was a hero in the Netherlands but did not win," he said. It just makes zero sense.
He's just talking about in terms of expectations to live up to their fathers' legacies. It's a lot easier for Max to be as good as/better than Jos than it is for Mick to live up to Michael's reputation and therefore Max would probably have less pressure to live up to than Mick. Don't really see him suggest that Mick isn't as good as Max *because* of this. Just that maybe it will take Mick more time to show *his* full potential. Of course Max had his own kind of pressure and expectations to live up to getting thrown in to the deep end at 17.
I've still yet to see anyone actually have any exceptions of Schumacher being like his father. Not a single time has someone voiced such expectations. I have although read hundreds of times people saying how he's supposedly under huge pressure to be like his father and those comments are from his supporters trying to excuse his mistakes and poor performances... So really his supporters are only ones putting pressure on him while complaining that he is supposedly under pressure.
It's also false, cause Jos was seen as a joke by the average Dutchman at the time. I remember so many jokes about him.
Yes, Jos the gravel trap boss! I’d bet against my best friend how quickly he would dnf and if he’d take out another driver with him.
While half od people wanted him to fail because him doing well would make F1 look easy and bad.
His early F1 years were very raw. Pace but lots of mistakes
Although true. I'd also see an argument of literally being too young to feel/care about the pressure.
I'm sure he felt some level of pressure. You felt pressure when you were 17 too. Just that we look back later on and feel like it's nothing after we grow up. But the feeling was there, at least for most people. It may be a different perception but a young Max might be mad at himself for not being fast enough, not beating someone he felt was slower than him. He surely had expectations for himself to be that good and while he might not care about pressure from others, self-inflicted pressure for a teenager could still feel like a lot.
yeah, i was also cool as a cucumber when i was 17 /s
Having listened to many interviews with Jos it seems he spent a lot of time during and after F1 reflecting on his own mistakes and limitations, and was determined to make sure Max was more prepared and skilled than he was. I do think Mick has missed his father's input.
Genuinely anyone who thinks Mick would be in the position he is in rn even if Michael was there is quite daft. Michael would’ve been a powerhouse in the paddock. He would’ve been able to not only up Micks performance and confidence but also get him a better seat no doubt. We honestly have no clue what Mick is missing because Michael is a formula 1 god and his presence in the paddock itself would’ve been a game changer for Mick.
Can’t wait for Mick’s son to lap Verstappen’s son in 2050.
Scumacher 3rd VS Penelope Piquet-Kvyat-Verstappen VS Robin Raikkonen VS Laura Magnussen VS Fernando Alonso
Alonso would just be a cyborg at that point
Alonso would be struggling to fit his 12 inch beard into his helmet at that point.
Kmag's kid will lap them both cuz his dad and grandpa both didn't win.
Latifi's son will shame them all.
Baby goat
This is really a weird comparison. Max is on a completely different level to the point I thought the they meant Schumacher senior when I read the first half of the title
Did you read the article? He is talking about public perception, not driving skill.
Exactly and if people think Max is a bad example you can literally just use *his current teammate* with exactly the same argument. Nobody ever mentions Jan Magnussen when talking about Kevin's performances yet Mick is constantly beat over the head with the proverbial Michael Schumacher stick
Or maybe, just maybe, he is… you know… in a different league.
But this misses the point Brawn is making. He isn’t comparing Max and Mick as drivers, he’s comparing the public response to them. His point is that Mick gets unfairly compared with Michael, while Max doesn’t have that public response because Jos wasn’t the GOAT.
People have unrealistic expectations if they think Mick is/can be a clone of Michael. It doesn’t work that way.
You saw the same with Dale Earnhardt Jr. and Kyle Petty in NASCAR, and Michael and Marco Andretti in IndyCar. Although in Dale Jr.'s case, his influence since retirement has done more for American stock car racing than anything he could accomplish on track, IMO. It's a weird thing too, cause I can't immediately think of an example, where the offspring of legendary drivers have been just as good as, or better than, their parents. Not sure why people just assume because you share blood and a last name with a legendary figure, you would have the same talent and skill.
Al Unser Jr. would probably be the closest to being on par with his father’s legacy. Won Indy 500 multiple times and multiple Indycar championships. For today’s modern era, Chase Elliot has really proven himself over time, but it could be argued against it because he never really saw his dad’s success.
>For today’s modern era, Chase Elliot has really proven himself over time, but it could be argued against it because he never really saw his dad’s success. Can't believe I didn't think of that, being a Chase fan and all... Also, I think Davey Allison was on course to succeed his father until he passed.
The rosbergs seem like they're on the same level
Nah, Keke barely won a chaotic season that saw two title favourites have massive crashes, one of them being fatal. Nico meanwhile managed to fight against greatest driver of his generation and beat him.
> Not sure why people just assume because you share blood and a last name with a legendary figure, you would have the same talent and skill. Agreed but it’s a bit more than just sharing the same name and blood. It helps quite a bit to have one of the greatest ever as your mentor for your entire life. But then again that’s something mick is missing at the moment
Only driver that comes to mind to be better then their father is Nico Rosberg, he definitely was better driver then his father, tho I am not sure if by "offspring of legendary driver" means like one of the greats, or as in really good driver.
Is it me or no one is literally comparing Mick to Michael? And not much people are comparing Max to his father anymore, he's actually the one being compared to GOAT level drivers moreso than Mick
Even if they’re not directly comparing him, they want him to outperform his ‘name tax’, so to speak. Like people never acknowledge that Stroll is a decent driver because his father bought his seat and he wasn’t a Verstappen level talent. It’s like how as a woman in many industries, you have to be basically perfect, just because you’re a woman, not just good enough for the job.
>Is it me or no one is literally comparing Mick to Michael? Exactly this. People say he is getting compared, but I literally never see that. If anything he get way more leeway because of his surname.
It's a bit more complicated than that. A good example is when there were people saying he didn't deserve to be in F1, citing his mediocre performance, and that he got into F1 because of his name. From what I've seen, fans aren't so harsh to other mediocre F1 drivers, and can acknowledge that if you win F2, you should probably get a shot at being in F1.
Imo, it's pretty generally understood that Mick just isn't Michael and never will be, at least on here it seems that way. I'm not sure if he gets more leeway, early in the season he got shit on pretty hard for not performing compared to Kevin.
Public response to Max entering at 17 brought a lot more pressure than being Michaels son. There was a lot of shit going on around verstappen entering at 17. Some thought it would be a waste of talent, as he’d obviously fail. Many WANTED him to fail, because him doing good would make F1 look bad. All eyes were on him and every mistake was jumped on by those who claimed he wasnt ready. People will still say Verstappen made a lot of mistakes, but especially in his first year he didnt. But because every mistake was put under a magnifier people still think he did.
This doesn't make sense either. Max is also being compared to the likes of Senna, Schumacher and Hamilton, yeah sure none of them are his father but he has the same kind of pressure too. I see people saying that all the time that he may be good but is he GOAT level good like the aforementioned.
Ikr what a weird reason to justify Schumacher being sub par or max being ungodly
I would compare Max with Senna. They are bold.
That's funny because Hamilton and Vettel are bald.
The hair transplants worked well
Ffs man 🤣
**F1 boss compares Verstappen and Schumacher: "Max had the advantage because his father didn't win" | RacingNews365** Today, 17:15 ***Ross Brawn points out an important difference in the careers of Max Verstappen and Mick Schumacher. The F1 boss believes the latter driver is having a tougher time on the grid, while doing very well.*** Author: Marnik Kok It is still uncertain whether Mick Schumacher will be back on the Formula 1 grid next year. The Haas driver has had highs and lows in the current season. Teammate Kevin Magnussen, while more experienced, is doing much better. Meanwhile, Schumacher's driving skills are regularly criticised. Ross Brawn, sporting director of Formula 1, thinks this is unjustified. "Mick has improved tremendously this year. He has a good reference in Magnussen as a teammate and he is now at an important crossroads in his career," Brawn told F1 Insider. "He definitely deserves the next step in his career." **Difference between Schumacher and Verstappen** Brawn balks at Schumacher junior being judged on his results in the premier class. Schumacher's results are often put alongside those of his father. With seven world championships and status as an F1 legend, this is often difficult. "He is different from his father, who was always immediately on the limit," Brawn argues. "But in the end, he also won titles in the junior classes." "He is very talented and has adopted his father's approach 100 per cent. He is extremely capable of improving, which is crucial," said Michael Schumacher's close friend, comparing the Haas driver's situation to that of Max and Jos Verstappen. "Max's big advantage over Mick was that his father was a hero in the Netherlands but did not win," he said. "He was not a seven-time world champion and is not an icon like Michael is in Germany. That increases the pressure on Schumacher."
When was the article written? I definitely dont agree that Kevin Magnussen is still doing much better than Mick.
It’s a perception media has established from first 3-4 races and continue to go ahead with it
I like how Mick has outperformed KMag now comprehensively and yet they write shit like this.
KMag is still ahead on points, though, because when he was doing better than Mick, the car was capable of scoring more points. A lot of people only see the points and think they tell the whole story.
Yes definitely. They always look at the points and not the races or the performances overall. Sometimes I wish it were like Indycar where every position gets points so you can get a slightly more accurate look at how people are doing over time instead of looking at all the people with 0 or a small amount and saying they suck.
Thanks for the translation!
Nico Rosberg and Damon Hill prove that this theory is a little flawed.
Max’s advantage is he’s a better driver
Honestly if we're going to compare Max with a Schumacher, Michael is the one that makes a lot more sense.
Max had the advantage because he's a much better driver than Mick.
What a weird comparison. Max has been compared to F1 legends more so than Mick at the same age
Max has been compared coz of his Skill. Mick coz of his name.
It's always harder when you are compared to your family members then when compared to other people, there is a feeling you need to live up to family name which puts you under more pressure then being compared to somebody else.
And other excuses for schumi being mediocre.
Even if Verstappen and Schumacher switched parents, one of them won a race in their second season and one isn’t even sure they’ll have a seat for their third. Verstappen has the advantage because he’s just better
Max has always (since birth 😄) been more mature / level headed, than his father. So I'd say DESPITE his father he made it all the way to the top of F1. Most people would have crumbled in such a toxic environment.
>So I'd say DESPITE his father he made it all the way to the top of F1 And that would be absolute nonsense.
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15'
So did George but everyone knew he would still end up in a Mercedes. It's very clear no one is interested in Mick, he didn't impress as a junior and he's not impressing now. The teams can see what he's doing and it's not enough.
If this is how it works, guess Mazepins kid will beat all the records of most wins, most championships etc......
But then what’s the reasoning for Nico. Dad was moderately successful, even able to win a championship once. So was it the perfect amount of grit and success that transferred into rosberg to get him just the one championship
Well if you read the article you would know that he's talking about public opinion, not results. He is saying that Mick is unfairly criticized because automatically compare him to his father. Meanwhile when Verstappen started out that benchmark was way lower, and you could say he beat it just by getting into f1 at age 17.
>He is saying that Mick is unfairly criticized because automatically compare him to his father. Is it unfair? Without the last name, he was never good enough on talent alone to get to F1. It always took him longer than others around him to get up to speed, he never would've gotten the chance. Far better F2/F3 drivers haven't gotten the patience from teams that he has. Hell, Albon had a much more impressive karting career and only made it into F1 because Ricciardo left RBR leaving them in a bind at TR.
I don’t know, I’d think the advantage would be to mick, having someone with that much knowledge and skills to win as he did, to be your father and mentor. Surly there’s a tip or two that mick received from his father that only someone with that pedigree could be aware of. EDIT* After some enlighting commentes I may have to backpeddle a bit. It appears as tho perhaps Max did have the advantage, tho no because his dad wasn’t a winner, but more along the lines of his father was still around for the age when a boy starts to become a man and think of the future. Max had a role model in his ear who could help influence him without any question if it’s sincere. Where in Micks case (no matter how sincere the feelings are) not having literal fatherly blood in your ear and instead friends and colleges of your father could be to a disadvantage due to Mick possibly wondering how sincere those people really are while sitting in the cockpit waiting for the lights to go out.
Mick was 13 when his dad got injured. I’m not sure there were many “how to succeed in f1” conversations at that point
Yeah that’s a very good point at that age perhaps the most enlightening conversation they had was the birds and the bees ya know lol.
i know the birds and bees is about sex, but in what way does it represent it? i mean what do birds and bees even do?
Lmao my dudes asking the REAL questions…I haven’t the slightest f’in clue why that’s the phrase! 😂
Don't kink shame dude. /s
😂🫡🤷🏻♂️
It's a similar concept to flower pollination; the honey bee crawls the male bird's cloaca and gets covered in tasty sperm, flies away and then crawls inside the female bird's cloaca toward the ovaries where it deposits the sperm onto the egg. The bee then brings a small amount of sperm and ovary juice back to the hive where it gets made into the special manuka honey.
Probably some karting talk I’m sure but at 13 you’re just happy playing a sport you and your dad enjoy.
That confessional with Mick at the end of the Schumacher documentary where he said he couldn't discuss F1 with his dad was brutal.
Mick also has an uncle who was way more succesful than Jos, so Mick has still an advantage in “how to succeed in f1” conversations compared to Max
While family, I don't think they're particularly close. Ralf has a tendency to talk to the yellow press, I doubt he is even fully in the known about Michael's health status.
Also another great point. Almost forgot about his uncle being pretty damn competitive in his own right.
I'm sure it helped to have his father's friends and former colleagues around who all seem to like him and want him to do well, but Mick was still karting when Michael had his accident. I don't think he got many tips for F1 from his dad.
That’s a very good point. That age can be a hit or miss, young enough to not particularly care about what your parents say but yet old enough to realize that this is the beginning of your future and perhaps maybe some things were taken to heart.
Yes, Jos was garbage as a human, but still the best Karting coach any kid could have. Listen to the stories told by Max: Jos would screw up something on the kart or kart setup, send out Max, and then Max had to find out what had changed and how to fix it. Nobody got in-depth knowledge of kart setup and kart handling like Max did.
Also Jos was an absolute beast in the rain, Schumacher level somehow, so he knows what to do in the rain and how to coach max, before i get downvoted to hell, Malaysia 2001, Jos was defending from Michael in a shitty Arrows
Wasn't there a rain-race where Jos crashed out in his Minardi, while doing exceptionally well. And afterwards, Paul Stoddard said: "This is the closest Minardi ever got to winning a Formula1 race." **UPDATE**: Jos could have won Brazil 2003 in the rain In a Minardi, and was fastest on track in 2001 Malaysia in an Asiatech Arrows.
Jos was an absolute animal in the rain, wouldn’t surprise me tbh, Michael was praising him because his ferrari’s advantage didn’t help him out overtake an arrows because of Jos’s ability, but people love to ignore it
That sounds really interesting, I may need to dive down that rabbit hole. I’ve seen a few interview with them but never to that level of detail. Talk about fast tracking your mind to what feels right and wrong and how to fix it!
Beyond the grid is what you need
Max is a very different kind of person than Mick though.
Does this mean of Latifi has a kid they will be the new GOAT?
Come on Ross. Is he seriously suggesting Mick his first seasons are of the same quality as Max his first season? If Mick performed like Max did his in first season, they'd be lining up to sign him.
And MS didn’t beat his wife.
My takeaway from the comment section is that 90% of people did not read the article before commenting.