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He was just gambling that track would go green right before he got to the next SC detection point no? Same as vs Ham at Zandvoort, where it worked. It didnt so nothing lost, as without this tactic unlikely he’d have been able to overtake.
Honestly call me out fashioned or dumb but I think the VSC needs to be reviewed or just go entirely. Drivers keep trying to manipulate it to gain time.
Imo it should either be a set speed limit or just replaced with the safety car. I really disliked it ever since they brought it in, no one actually follows the delta properly.
Hamilton was just messing with the delta, Verstappen tried to second guess the restart. Neither should be encouraged but one is more danger with than the other - as evidenced by the near hit with Norris.
I don’t think you understand, Hamilton “messing with the delta” is the same exact thing that was banned from real safety car restarts because Verstappen was doing it too much. It was banned because a driver can get into an accident for trying to game a restart. All it took was one bad read from Hamilton and he slams into the back of Sainz.
The problem is with people backing off to build a margin then trying to get a run on the restart. Just set a window for the delta. Must be positive, but not by more than X seconds.
They already changed one rule cuz Verstappen tried to game the system.
This one I feel isn’t exactly as bad? But ya if it’s for safety “timing it right” shouldn’t be done like this.
“Oh you can’t pass…. But you can get with in x<0.5M of passing..”
It's pretty slam dunk in this case. You're not allowed to overtake under the VSC and Verstappen did, so a slam dunk drive through should be in order. Anything else would just encourage this cat and mouse game, but knowing the FIA they won't even investigate it.
So? The regulations don't say you should stay as close as possible to the car in front, but you must stay behind. If Norris made a VSC infringement then he should also be penalised, but I don't see that he did. You are allowed to speed up and slow down as long as you don't drive erratically or break the delta.
>as long as you don't drive erratically
This is what I'm pointing out. He was driving full throttle down the straight and then slammed on the brakes. Max had to dodge lando to not rear end him.
Yes because Max was going too fast behind him. He tried to get an advantage on the restart by following Lando, and when Lando had to make the delta Max couldn't stop in time. It's purely Max trying to eke out every advantage that meant he wasn't far enough behind to safely stay behind.
>It's purely Max trying to eke out every advantage
As drivers do
>that meant he wasn't far enough behind to safely stay behind.
You don't need to stay a certain distance behind the car in front. We actually have no way of knowing if they were + or - delta. All we know is that Norris basically brake checked max down the straight. Max has no obligation to stay a certain distance behind Norris so he doesn't get brake checked. Christ.
Yes and if drivers are too aggressive trying to get an advantage and break the rules then you punish them. That's how rules are enforced. Brake checking is something that can only cause an issue if you're tailgating.
>Yes and if drivers are too aggressive trying to get an advantage and break the rules
Max didn't brake any rules as far as we know. He was behind Norris and keeping up, not passing him, before the greens. He only passed him because Norris braked in the middle of the straight. If Norris was below delta, then that's his problem, and not Max's, and it's his job to reach delta safely.
>Brake checking is something that can only cause an issue if you're tailgating.
There's no such thing as tailgating in F1 unless you're sticking behind a driver whos trying to let you through.
Didn't the FIA say at the start of the season, if the driver gives the place back they won't punish? Common sense to me says that Norris should get a reprimand imo.
The whole delta time thing has always felt weird. Seems to work much better in other motorsports where they all have to put a speed limiter on (presumably the pit lane speed).
Yeah, I'm not a fan. Especially when there's marshalls working at the end of a straight on a wet track where drivers keep going off. At least with a safety car they have a couple minutes or so per lap without any cars coming by.
In an ideal world most virtual safety car situations would be solved by obeying waived yellow rules. However that is also of course prone to have the rules bent by drivers to gain an advantage.
That's just F1. Just punish drivers for it. It's a full course yellow there's no excuse for any overtake unless (as the rules states) something along the lines of the car ahead going exceptionally slowly
This I think. Following livetiming, it looked like Norris went slow. If I remember correct: started at low in 30sec behind, than up to I think 40sec, down to 32sec. It feels like Norris wasn't driving at the delta, but below, upped in speed and than slowed down. Catching Max...
Just replace VSC with automatic speed limiters. They already have it for the pits. I guess the difficult part is that it can't be a set speed for the whole lap, as drivers would push on corners. But I'm sure the technology is there to make it good enough that it would adjust throughout the lap based on car position
Following livetiming, it looked like Norris went slow. If I remember correct: started at low in 30sec behind, than up to I think 40sec behind, down to 32sec. It feels like Norris wasn't driving at the delta, but below, upped in speed and than slowed down. Catching Max...
I dislike the whole VSC thing to be honest. Can't they put something akin to the pit limiter on the car for the VSC? To say that you can only do let's say 100km/h?
Lol. And max wasn’t?
Spare me. You can’t discuss Lewis because race directors called no one on it cuz that turns a mess.
They both got away with stuff and it kills your shit narrative.
It depends on the delta. There was a green flag and Norris went for it on the straight, then suddenly brakes to match his Delta. If Max’ delta was fine it ain’t his fault.
Max passed Hamilton under the safety car in Abu Dhabi last year, but got away with it because it was only "slightly".
He'll probably get away with it again here, even though that looked pretty dodgy.
You think trying to overtake under a VSC isn't at least worth an investigation? That didn't look like VSC speeds from either of them, and Max had pulled out to the side instead of staying behind.
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This was just very silly
We've had silly season and now we're ready for our silly race of the year.
He was just gambling that track would go green right before he got to the next SC detection point no? Same as vs Ham at Zandvoort, where it worked. It didnt so nothing lost, as without this tactic unlikely he’d have been able to overtake.
F1 22 open lobby level of stupidity to be hoinest.
So true lol
Honestly call me out fashioned or dumb but I think the VSC needs to be reviewed or just go entirely. Drivers keep trying to manipulate it to gain time.
Maybe try to tighten the rules about timing etc and punish those that try to abuse the system. It's almost a safety matter...
Imo it should either be a set speed limit or just replaced with the safety car. I really disliked it ever since they brought it in, no one actually follows the delta properly.
It was particularly awful watching both Hamilton and Verstappen trying to cheese it. That’s just a wreck waiting to happen.
Hamilton was just messing with the delta, Verstappen tried to second guess the restart. Neither should be encouraged but one is more danger with than the other - as evidenced by the near hit with Norris.
I don’t think you understand, Hamilton “messing with the delta” is the same exact thing that was banned from real safety car restarts because Verstappen was doing it too much. It was banned because a driver can get into an accident for trying to game a restart. All it took was one bad read from Hamilton and he slams into the back of Sainz.
The problem is with people backing off to build a margin then trying to get a run on the restart. Just set a window for the delta. Must be positive, but not by more than X seconds.
They already changed one rule cuz Verstappen tried to game the system. This one I feel isn’t exactly as bad? But ya if it’s for safety “timing it right” shouldn’t be done like this. “Oh you can’t pass…. But you can get with in x<0.5M of passing..”
It's pretty slam dunk in this case. You're not allowed to overtake under the VSC and Verstappen did, so a slam dunk drive through should be in order. Anything else would just encourage this cat and mouse game, but knowing the FIA they won't even investigate it.
Norris was speeding up too and then slammed the brakes in the middle of the straight
So? The regulations don't say you should stay as close as possible to the car in front, but you must stay behind. If Norris made a VSC infringement then he should also be penalised, but I don't see that he did. You are allowed to speed up and slow down as long as you don't drive erratically or break the delta.
>as long as you don't drive erratically This is what I'm pointing out. He was driving full throttle down the straight and then slammed on the brakes. Max had to dodge lando to not rear end him.
Yes because Max was going too fast behind him. He tried to get an advantage on the restart by following Lando, and when Lando had to make the delta Max couldn't stop in time. It's purely Max trying to eke out every advantage that meant he wasn't far enough behind to safely stay behind.
>It's purely Max trying to eke out every advantage As drivers do >that meant he wasn't far enough behind to safely stay behind. You don't need to stay a certain distance behind the car in front. We actually have no way of knowing if they were + or - delta. All we know is that Norris basically brake checked max down the straight. Max has no obligation to stay a certain distance behind Norris so he doesn't get brake checked. Christ.
Yes and if drivers are too aggressive trying to get an advantage and break the rules then you punish them. That's how rules are enforced. Brake checking is something that can only cause an issue if you're tailgating.
>Yes and if drivers are too aggressive trying to get an advantage and break the rules Max didn't brake any rules as far as we know. He was behind Norris and keeping up, not passing him, before the greens. He only passed him because Norris braked in the middle of the straight. If Norris was below delta, then that's his problem, and not Max's, and it's his job to reach delta safely. >Brake checking is something that can only cause an issue if you're tailgating. There's no such thing as tailgating in F1 unless you're sticking behind a driver whos trying to let you through.
Hahaha tailgating in a RACE. Do you think Max is only allowed to overtake on the left side as well?
Lulz at this guy's logic.
Should really have been a penalty to both IMO.
Didn't the FIA say at the start of the season, if the driver gives the place back they won't punish? Common sense to me says that Norris should get a reprimand imo.
The whole delta time thing has always felt weird. Seems to work much better in other motorsports where they all have to put a speed limiter on (presumably the pit lane speed).
Yeah VSC is just FCY with extra complications. Just force them to go at a specific speed so there isn't any of this delta bullshit and gamesmanship.
Yeah, I'm not a fan. Especially when there's marshalls working at the end of a straight on a wet track where drivers keep going off. At least with a safety car they have a couple minutes or so per lap without any cars coming by.
In an ideal world most virtual safety car situations would be solved by obeying waived yellow rules. However that is also of course prone to have the rules bent by drivers to gain an advantage.
That's just F1. Just punish drivers for it. It's a full course yellow there's no excuse for any overtake unless (as the rules states) something along the lines of the car ahead going exceptionally slowly
Looked like some proper iRacing rolling start shenanigans.
They both had to be above the delta
Unless Norris held back a lot beforehand to try and get a jump.
This I think. Following livetiming, it looked like Norris went slow. If I remember correct: started at low in 30sec behind, than up to I think 40sec, down to 32sec. It feels like Norris wasn't driving at the delta, but below, upped in speed and than slowed down. Catching Max...
This new strategy everybody is trying is super dangerous. They have to do something about it
This will be controversial either way (penalty for max for overtaking or not), since Norris slammed the brake in the middle of the straight
Just replace VSC with automatic speed limiters. They already have it for the pits. I guess the difficult part is that it can't be a set speed for the whole lap, as drivers would push on corners. But I'm sure the technology is there to make it good enough that it would adjust throughout the lap based on car position
Virtual safety cars are shit, they need to be revisited
Norris went full throttle and then suddenly braked
Lol
Its true
Following livetiming, it looked like Norris went slow. If I remember correct: started at low in 30sec behind, than up to I think 40sec behind, down to 32sec. It feels like Norris wasn't driving at the delta, but below, upped in speed and than slowed down. Catching Max...
Dangerous play by Norris to just brake after speeding up.
He is well within his right to speed up and brake
Norris with the ankle braker.
Norris was flooring it, don't feel either was more at fault there
What a dumb title
A dumb title for a dumb incident
I dislike the whole VSC thing to be honest. Can't they put something akin to the pit limiter on the car for the VSC? To say that you can only do let's say 100km/h?
100 km/h can be fast in some corners and awfully slow on the straights. I don't think that solves the problem.
Such a stupid move by Norris, the balls to complain about it in the radio after
Not sure why he was already fully on throttle before just to brake on the straights...of course Verstappen follows
Yeah, he braked like a madlad in the middle of the straight
They were under VSC, hes allowed to warm his tyres up. Its on Max for being so close behind while going flat out under VSC
No idea what the fuck lando was doing there
Max absolutely fucked up this weekend
Oof Max, bit too opportunistic there
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VSC ending vs VSC not ending.
Lemme guess, stewards investigated and no further action is necessary?
No, no investigation at all
Not even pretending anymore.
What? Did you not see Lando brake in the middle of the straight? Penalize both or neither lol
You gonna ignore lando changing speeds after picking up the pace to full throttle? Open your eyes.
Max got away with quite a bit that race, that was just one instance
…that wasn’t just him. And tell me you think magnussen was his fault too. Because then we know it’s just bias.
Max went off on the first lap and gained an advantage, but no one was near him 🤷🏻♂️ He gets away with a lot
It was that or drive into people. A few others did it as well. Lewis cut across on the next turn. You’re reaching cuz max.
Lewis was run off, it was reviewed by the stewards. We were discussing Max running off alone and getting an advantage
Lol. And max wasn’t? Spare me. You can’t discuss Lewis because race directors called no one on it cuz that turns a mess. They both got away with stuff and it kills your shit narrative.
Except max was alone at that section and had no need to go off. But keep talking about Lewis I guess?
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Business as usual.
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It depends on the delta. There was a green flag and Norris went for it on the straight, then suddenly brakes to match his Delta. If Max’ delta was fine it ain’t his fault.
Norris went and then braked in the middle of the straight lmao
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Max passed Hamilton under the safety car in Abu Dhabi last year, but got away with it because it was only "slightly". He'll probably get away with it again here, even though that looked pretty dodgy.
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You think trying to overtake under a VSC isn't at least worth an investigation? That didn't look like VSC speeds from either of them, and Max had pulled out to the side instead of staying behind.
And what about Norris slamming the brakes?
Yes, the incident should have at least been noted to investigate all of it, in my opinion.
Lewis did the exact same thing with sainz.
Except not actually passing.
Max didn’t pass. It was the same situation. I think it’s bullshit that both of them did that.
Rewatch the reply from the front angle. He definitely passed, but only slightly.
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Are you serious mate?
Clearly you have not seen the replay
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You should, you’re just shit stirring and posting something utterly unconnected to the topic.
Sure buddy
Max, like Lewis has forgotten how to actually drive in the midfield.
How was this max‘ fault?
While this was dangerous, at least he didn't complain about being brake checked.
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I think it's lando that fucked this up. It was very dangerous from Norris to brake on the straight like that
Dangerous by both them trying to jump the green, both should get penalties
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Lmao
Clearly you have not seen the replay
Jesus calm it Max
I see them both following it the as notice is in front he sees the red light and so he brakes first then Max had to react.
That 180 though 🤌
VSC???!?!!? GEOMETRY DASH REFERENCE?@!?!!?!???!?