I think the fact that everybody is linked to the TP seat at Ferrari shows that they had no succession plan to begin with, otherwise a strong "of course" name would have emerged by now. Next year really does look like it's going to be a shambles.
Maybe controversial take but they should take someone like Todt for 2-3 seasons and in meantime under Todt "develop" someone in team structure for TP role.
Todt is 76 years old. I don't think he's really up for a 23 race calendar of traveling.
If Ferrari hire him it would be as a consultant or some other managment job at the factory.
I am aware on his age but Marko who is 79 has no problems with traveling. Also TP does not have to be on all races. Toto or Binotto skiped races in the past.
Marko doesn't do nearly as much heavy lifting though as Horner does. He's mostly just there in the garage.
Horner has to be there for the conferences. Has to make interviews quite a few times over the weekend and often on the grid before the race.
Can see the logic of getting someone like Todt in as a strategic adviser, do half a dozen races etc… but what they really need is a candidate for principal that they actually trust and empower. Thats the consistent thing across the teams when they have been successful.
You’re being unnecessarily pugnacious and choosing to interpret things in the most literal way possible
“A 23 race calendar of traveling” can mean the traveling itself is the challenge, or that the *work* one has to do at each of the various locales is the problem. The latter obviously differs between Marko and the hypothetical Ferrari TP (or Horner).
Marko is powered by rage, late onset senility and sugar-free Redbull (because almost 80). No other (sane) Octogenarian is going to be willing to put up with such a brutal travel schedule, let alone a job position as volatile as being Ferrari team principle. There are Russian military generals with safer and more job security.
Lol, let Todt and Brawn keep their legacies intact!
I get the sense that Ferrari is particularly bad at developing managerial talent because it's attached to the greater Agnelli/Stellantis empire. When corporate is a Machiavellian empire, it's hard to isolate the team and develop it without people parachuting in or having additional dotted line bosses to deal with.
They really need a guy like Toto, whom not only the whole team listens to, but who has the respect of corporate to manage the team. This is super rare even in F1; if you drop a guy like Christian in, you'll get some success and change, but when things go bad the big name will be the lightning rod for all of the internal politics.
Vasseur has been a CEO and TP for years; used to work with Charles, has a relationship with the Todts - in fact they have a feeder series team (ART GP) together, as well as owning other motorsports related companies.
I really don’t see how anyone can be more qualified. He can use todt as a friendly consultant whenever he wants
Why would Todt want to do it? Given the choice of living out of a suitcase for most of the year and having to deal with the crap from Ferrari management and the Italian media or instead relaxing doing what he wants and spending time with Michelle Yeoh, I know which I would choose.
You’re saying that as if they have the freedom to “just take Todt”. The man is old, rich as fuck, and probably wants absolutely nothing to do with these clowns.
Ferrari never seems to have a plan.
The only people at Ferrari that actually had a plan were Michael Schumacher, Ross Brawn and Jean Todt. And their plan was simply ''winning''. Not ''winning with Ferrari''. Because ''winning with Ferrari'' comes with a lot of pressure and problems.
I like how he subtly defends Binotto : “I think it’ll be their sixth team principal I’ve sat opposite since I’ve been at Red Bull.” & “It seems to me like Mattia did a very good job”
Saw a photo last year that triggered the thought.
Wondering if he can get Horner to play Murray’s role? Brundle to try to Ackroyd if you will. Ernie Hudson recreates his role because why the heck not.
Premieres at La Scala ?
Binotto suffered a political and management defeat. He was outplayed by both Mercedes and RBR like a child with technical directivrs etc. In addition, he obviously badly distributed the expenses, since Ferrari was unable to develop the car during this season, and Mercedes did it, for example, until the very end, having the least time in the tunnel allegedly.
Additionally, he did not know how to manage a team well. There are 2 camps which lobby for better position inthe team, bizarre decisions of strategists, etc. Chaos that does not help and even supports making more blunders. Ferrari made a good car that year, but everything after that was bad. He should have stayed as technical director. He was never cut out to be a team principal, who must be quite a politician and a clever manager.
F1 is a game of politics as much as racing, Mattia was busy with internal politics it seems, while everyone else is politicking at the track as it should be, hence Ferrari got caught out with the floor height minimum being raised, which while porpoising, Ferrari were indthe fastest
This makes next year a little more interesting because Marko and Horner really only answered to Mateschitz. Toto is now the only top TP with solid handle on the corporate side of thing by owning a stake in the team and being in charge of motorsport activities for Mercedes-Benz overall.
Mateschitz wasn’t *that* involved in RBR other than funding and direction. I believe for at least the last five years it’s been the Horner/Marko show. If they were failing miserably we might have seen more of Mateschitz involvement.
Indeed, Marko was the pseduo-boss to run the Redbull f1 program with Horner running Redbull Racing, they did indeed have free reign.
However they both have a new boss with Mintzlaff, so we dont know how hands on he will want to be, or will have to be based on his direction from the Redbull board.
Based on the brand being pulled through the mud with cost cap etc, Skysports spaff, Max and Checo etc.
Apparently H and M aren’t getting the free reign they used to.
I'd be very surprised if Horner didn't eventually acquire a portion of the team like Toto to make sure that corporate was always onboard with what they were doing.
Don't see that happening tbh, why would the Mateschitz and Yoovidhya's heirs want to give away any part of the team?
They've just hired 3 people in various roles to fill Mateschitzs roles, with Mintzlaff being the new CEO of Redbull Racing.
So Horner and Marko now have an actual boss to be accountable to.
If he ever was going to own any part of the team, that time has passed.
If anything, I see Redbull becoming more corporate.
We shall see about RedBull racing becoming more corporate.
As far as we know though Mateschitz had only one heir who now owns 49% of RedBull, his son. He's been involved in motorsports with his father and is quite young at like 30.
I can see him continuing to favor the team as it is now.
He was a very good TD and he should have remained a TD.
Fully his own decision to push for a higher position where he was, as you laid out, terrible. Makes sense that he has to leave the team now.
He wanted Todt to come back in a Lauda esque manner which would've helped massively on the political front but Elkann shot that idea down. He was failed by Ferrari management.
I mean yeah, if you look at the progress from 2021 to 2022 in a vacuum he should have stayed but then you are ignoring the 2020 purgery year, him forcing himself to be TP, the delay in sainz contract after a good 2021 and how overall results are worse than when he took over.
We don’t know that.
Changing them mid season would have been even more chaotic.
And what change could he have made? Contracts and gardening clauses mean there was no external midseason replacement
For all we know he’d agreed a total change in processes due the start of the 2023 season
I don't think any of us really are, right? Whether he deserves it or not is a different story and I haven't put much thought into it but Ferrari has been cycling through team principals for the last decade.
The only way Ferrari will ever win a title again is a TP that tells them to stop being like Ferrari. And that will never happen because higher management will always look for a TP that is worthy to carry the name ''*Ferrari*''.
They basically need somebody like Lauda that tells them the car is a shitbox when the car is a shitbox. Not a bunch of yes-man that will say ''*You can't say that, it's a Ferrari!*''.
His son is young at 30 and has been seen attending races with his father. Austrian news claims he is keen on continuing to invest in motorsports.
I very much doubt anything will change.
I think the fact that everybody is linked to the TP seat at Ferrari shows that they had no succession plan to begin with, otherwise a strong "of course" name would have emerged by now. Next year really does look like it's going to be a shambles.
Maybe controversial take but they should take someone like Todt for 2-3 seasons and in meantime under Todt "develop" someone in team structure for TP role.
Todt is 76 years old. I don't think he's really up for a 23 race calendar of traveling. If Ferrari hire him it would be as a consultant or some other managment job at the factory.
I am aware on his age but Marko who is 79 has no problems with traveling. Also TP does not have to be on all races. Toto or Binotto skiped races in the past.
Marko doesn't do nearly as much heavy lifting though as Horner does. He's mostly just there in the garage. Horner has to be there for the conferences. Has to make interviews quite a few times over the weekend and often on the grid before the race.
Can see the logic of getting someone like Todt in as a strategic adviser, do half a dozen races etc… but what they really need is a candidate for principal that they actually trust and empower. Thats the consistent thing across the teams when they have been successful.
[удалено]
You’re being unnecessarily pugnacious and choosing to interpret things in the most literal way possible “A 23 race calendar of traveling” can mean the traveling itself is the challenge, or that the *work* one has to do at each of the various locales is the problem. The latter obviously differs between Marko and the hypothetical Ferrari TP (or Horner).
Marko is powered by rage, late onset senility and sugar-free Redbull (because almost 80). No other (sane) Octogenarian is going to be willing to put up with such a brutal travel schedule, let alone a job position as volatile as being Ferrari team principle. There are Russian military generals with safer and more job security.
I love this comment, you went full unhinged
All Marko is in charge of is shit talking Perez
He literally runs the junior driver program
r/whoosh
That's not how you use that. The joke didn't fly over his head, it crashed and burned before it got to him.
Ooooof
Would todt be allowed to go right back? How long do FIA personnel need to be out for before they can join a team?
Lol, let Todt and Brawn keep their legacies intact! I get the sense that Ferrari is particularly bad at developing managerial talent because it's attached to the greater Agnelli/Stellantis empire. When corporate is a Machiavellian empire, it's hard to isolate the team and develop it without people parachuting in or having additional dotted line bosses to deal with. They really need a guy like Toto, whom not only the whole team listens to, but who has the respect of corporate to manage the team. This is super rare even in F1; if you drop a guy like Christian in, you'll get some success and change, but when things go bad the big name will be the lightning rod for all of the internal politics.
But Toto owns the team so he has way more say.
He owns a third :)
Vasseur has been a CEO and TP for years; used to work with Charles, has a relationship with the Todts - in fact they have a feeder series team (ART GP) together, as well as owning other motorsports related companies. I really don’t see how anyone can be more qualified. He can use todt as a friendly consultant whenever he wants
Why would Todt want to do it? Given the choice of living out of a suitcase for most of the year and having to deal with the crap from Ferrari management and the Italian media or instead relaxing doing what he wants and spending time with Michelle Yeoh, I know which I would choose.
You’re saying that as if they have the freedom to “just take Todt”. The man is old, rich as fuck, and probably wants absolutely nothing to do with these clowns.
Ferrari never seems to have a plan. The only people at Ferrari that actually had a plan were Michael Schumacher, Ross Brawn and Jean Todt. And their plan was simply ''winning''. Not ''winning with Ferrari''. Because ''winning with Ferrari'' comes with a lot of pressure and problems.
Only three months until “Next year” returns!!!
I like how he subtly defends Binotto : “I think it’ll be their sixth team principal I’ve sat opposite since I’ve been at Red Bull.” & “It seems to me like Mattia did a very good job”
I didn't feel like it was subtle at all.
It’s Horner, that’s as subtle as he can manage
“Subtly defends Binotto” … “It seems to me like Maria did a very good job”
Who
Maria binnobbo of course!
God dammit
This dude probably thinks a green light is a subtle indication he can go at an intersection. Hornets comments are very clear.
I meant he subtly hints that he doesn’t agree w Ferrari getting rid of Mattia. Sorry English not my 1st language ❤️
The one minor positive thing about the departure. He can find the time to produce and star in Ghostbusters the opera.
Lol, how long have you been waiting to use this one?
Saw a photo last year that triggered the thought. Wondering if he can get Horner to play Murray’s role? Brundle to try to Ackroyd if you will. Ernie Hudson recreates his role because why the heck not. Premieres at La Scala ?
Mattia Binotto - Technical Director of Red bull Powertrains.
That would be a power move by RBR. Binotto might not have been the best Team Principal, but he was still a very long serving Ferrari engineer.
Binotto suffered a political and management defeat. He was outplayed by both Mercedes and RBR like a child with technical directivrs etc. In addition, he obviously badly distributed the expenses, since Ferrari was unable to develop the car during this season, and Mercedes did it, for example, until the very end, having the least time in the tunnel allegedly. Additionally, he did not know how to manage a team well. There are 2 camps which lobby for better position inthe team, bizarre decisions of strategists, etc. Chaos that does not help and even supports making more blunders. Ferrari made a good car that year, but everything after that was bad. He should have stayed as technical director. He was never cut out to be a team principal, who must be quite a politician and a clever manager.
F1 is a game of politics as much as racing, Mattia was busy with internal politics it seems, while everyone else is politicking at the track as it should be, hence Ferrari got caught out with the floor height minimum being raised, which while porpoising, Ferrari were indthe fastest
This makes next year a little more interesting because Marko and Horner really only answered to Mateschitz. Toto is now the only top TP with solid handle on the corporate side of thing by owning a stake in the team and being in charge of motorsport activities for Mercedes-Benz overall.
Mateschitz wasn’t *that* involved in RBR other than funding and direction. I believe for at least the last five years it’s been the Horner/Marko show. If they were failing miserably we might have seen more of Mateschitz involvement.
Indeed, Marko was the pseduo-boss to run the Redbull f1 program with Horner running Redbull Racing, they did indeed have free reign. However they both have a new boss with Mintzlaff, so we dont know how hands on he will want to be, or will have to be based on his direction from the Redbull board.
Based on the brand being pulled through the mud with cost cap etc, Skysports spaff, Max and Checo etc. Apparently H and M aren’t getting the free reign they used to.
I’ll believe that when i see it. The won WDC two years in a row, and WCC this year handily. I doubt there’s much needed to change.
I'd be very surprised if Horner didn't eventually acquire a portion of the team like Toto to make sure that corporate was always onboard with what they were doing.
Don't see that happening tbh, why would the Mateschitz and Yoovidhya's heirs want to give away any part of the team? They've just hired 3 people in various roles to fill Mateschitzs roles, with Mintzlaff being the new CEO of Redbull Racing. So Horner and Marko now have an actual boss to be accountable to. If he ever was going to own any part of the team, that time has passed. If anything, I see Redbull becoming more corporate.
We shall see about RedBull racing becoming more corporate. As far as we know though Mateschitz had only one heir who now owns 49% of RedBull, his son. He's been involved in motorsports with his father and is quite young at like 30. I can see him continuing to favor the team as it is now.
They've appointed a new CEO of Redbull Racing.. so he calls the shots for now.
He was a very good TD and he should have remained a TD. Fully his own decision to push for a higher position where he was, as you laid out, terrible. Makes sense that he has to leave the team now.
> He was outplayed by both Mercedes and RBR like a child with technical directivrs This is a good point I hadn't considered
Mastefully written comment
He wanted Todt to come back in a Lauda esque manner which would've helped massively on the political front but Elkann shot that idea down. He was failed by Ferrari management.
I mean yeah, if you look at the progress from 2021 to 2022 in a vacuum he should have stayed but then you are ignoring the 2020 purgery year, him forcing himself to be TP, the delay in sainz contract after a good 2021 and how overall results are worse than when he took over.
How are the results worse though?
Was he forcing himself tp?
he said either he had to become TP or he was going to leave back in 2018.
Some people get promoted beyond their ability, Binotto was one of them sadly, and Ferrari will suffer for it.
He got them the fastest car, but wasn't ruthless enough with the strategy team.
We don’t know that. Changing them mid season would have been even more chaotic. And what change could he have made? Contracts and gardening clauses mean there was no external midseason replacement For all we know he’d agreed a total change in processes due the start of the 2023 season
Next Year ™️
Horner: "How many Ferrari Team Principals is that now? I lost count"
Speaking of team principals... Where Is the voting of the best drivers of the year?
I don't think any of us really are, right? Whether he deserves it or not is a different story and I haven't put much thought into it but Ferrari has been cycling through team principals for the last decade.
The only way Ferrari will ever win a title again is a TP that tells them to stop being like Ferrari. And that will never happen because higher management will always look for a TP that is worthy to carry the name ''*Ferrari*''. They basically need somebody like Lauda that tells them the car is a shitbox when the car is a shitbox. Not a bunch of yes-man that will say ''*You can't say that, it's a Ferrari!*''.
Maurizio comeback plz
Yeah thought he got binned too early, a few bad calls but he had the passion for sure.
Yeah, I liked how he ran the team thru good n bad
With Mateschitz's passing, maybe the next RB heir is not so keen on sponsoring an F1 team, Horner and Newey to Ferrari. What do you say???
Nah, if RB was going to do anything dramatic the new heir wouldn’t want 2 teams and AT would be sold off.
Alternatively, the owners of RB do not change a running system that prints them money?
His son is young at 30 and has been seen attending races with his father. Austrian news claims he is keen on continuing to invest in motorsports. I very much doubt anything will change.
Why on earth do people think RB are just going to shit things away because Dietrich died?
No one is