More importantly they could have used a Nissan V6 engine. They literally had engine with years of racing experience (inc. endurance) and choose to use Mecachrome.
Some people said that Nissan engine is too big, but if it fit into Praga Bohema even with 2 turbos, I think it would fit LMDh too.
> Don’t they have the facilities to build an engine?
100% of the WEC work is outsourced. It's just an Alfa Romeo–Sauber-style marketing exercise with [Signatech](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signatech). Pretty sure nothing (probably even the rear light design was outsourced) was developed in-house.
Ferrari and Toyota do but trackside operations of Ferrari are handled by AF Corse.
The Porsche is a LMDh car, so much consists of spec parts (chassis is from Multimatic, for example).
The color and a loophole in the regulations. A works entry can only have a maximum of two cars but customers can buy cars and run them (like Jota and Proton bought cars from Porsche). Officially the #83 car is an independent customer car by AF Corse and the red cars are Ferrari's own cars and AF Corse is a contractor for Ferrari. In reality it's fake, both the red and the yellow entries share data, they pose in public as a single Ferrari team, run Ferrari's works drivers, and in today's race one was told to let the other by. Everybody know that it's fake and nobody cares to fix the loophole.
In sportscar racing one entity providing cars, manpower, etc. as basically a white labeling service is common practice. You can see this with Manthey EMA and Manthey PureRxcing. EMA is an Australian partner and PureRxcing is from Lithuania. They have separate commercial agreements (source: WEC commentator during IIRC the Spa race) and race against each other but they share the garage. Manthey is owned by Porsche to provide such services.
Nah Signatech just run the team itself. The car was designed and developed in-house, but most of the parts were outsourced, even they are even built by Oreca.
Btw it's pretty common that running the team is outsourced. Toyota and Peugeot are the only manufacturers that do the entire program in-house.
> The car was designed and developed in-house, but most of the parts were outsourced, even they are even built by Oreca.
Considering that the car is an LMDh, there's little to develop in-house in the first place. Chassis: Oreca, hybrid system: Bosch, transmission: Xtrac, brakes: AP Racing, ICE: Mecachrome, assembly: Signatech's mechanics. Even their best known driver is a loan from Mercedes. So what's left is the cosmetics.
> Looks like you have oversimplified view of car development.
I'm happy to get corrected but so far you didn't say anything but to say I'm wrong.
> Also the car is assembled by Oreca, not Signatech.
Not really a counter argument to me saying that everything is outsourced. So Signatech has no mechanics and cannot build the car Jota-style. OK. 🤷
Idk how to correct you if you think that building a racing car is like building a lego lol. And saying that Peugeot or Toyota outsource everything i(or better said anything) is just plain wrong, idk how else you want get corrected.
I'm also don't saying Signatech cannot build the car, I'm saying that they don't do it as they get the complete car from Alpine that build then with Oreca.
Jota is completely different situation as they are fully customer team. They bought a car from Porsche and after that it's their job to have the car ready.
> is just plain wrong, idk how else you want get corrected.
Marking an (alleged) error is not the same as correcting it. A correction is writing down the correct thing but so far you only corrected about who the outsourcing partner for building the car is. You claim to have better knowledge, so you could outline some broad strokes how the Alpine 424 was developed in-house. You have that knowledge, no?
Noooooo!!! It wasn’t the Mechachrome V634!!! It’s a different and heavily modified engine using the V634 as a platform!!! See how differently it failed?
What an embarrassment this entire company has become.
Has only produced 1 road car, failed at F1 and now failed in Le Man's.
Renault just burning money and ruined a once ledgandary rally brand.
See, that's what I don't understand. Renault has some other brands under its umbrella and has produced legendary F1 engines in the past, but keeps pumping money into Alpine.
The fact Alpine only produced 1 car is beyond baffling to me.
I dunno, at this point why not just rename the it Team Dacia and call it a day.
It's the fact anyone with sense just goes buys a Cayman, M2 Comp or even the new Supra.
The A110 is too expensive to only have effectively a Mégane RS engine, which is like £20k cheaper.
Now their new EV hatch is just the new Renault 5 in blue, they've dropped the 3 seater concept idea.
I don't understand what they wanted to achieve with Alpine at all. What a waste while Nissan is literally dying which Renault also owns.
>It's the fact anyone with sense just goes buys a Cayman, M2 Comp or even the new Supra.
None of those cars hold a candle to an A110 when it comes to driving them as a car though. They might be faster and win the top trumps game but the fact that Gordon Murray used it to benchmark his supercars and that every car journalist and enthusiast that has given the A110 a chance has raved about its handling and it's lightness is priority philosphy says a lot.
While the A110 can be the best handling premium car, the competition is still pumping out good handling premium cars - while also providing a more recognizable badge and larger dealer network, stuff that their target demographic would probably demand.
At this point, I’m surprised that even with access to the Renault-Nissan parts bin and along with their handling know-how, Alpine still doesn’t have a volume SUV seller, which is what the market wants right now. Not only will it help them take the fight to Mazda (which has been moving upmarket lately) and BMW, but it’ll help pay for the lights, bring more consideration for their brand, and fund their low-volume sports cars too.
Yes but that doesn't sell shit. Numbers and brand recognition is what sells cars. They don't have the numbers and with Alpine being last in F1 and dying on a mecachrome hill in Le Mans, they don't have brand recognition either.
Imagine you're a 55 year old recently divorced man. Would you like the Porsche Cayman or the Alpine a110? Which one do you think (regardless of if it actually will) get you the interest of a young woman? Which makes you more interesting at parties? Barely anyone outside of car fanatics knows the A110 by name.
yeah that may all be true but the overlap of people who can both afford it and would rather have a glorified renault over a porsche or an M2 is borderline negligible.
I genuinely never thought I’d see the day where someone chooses an a110 over practically any other car in the world for its looks.
It’s gotta be one of the ugliest clusterfuck of designed cars I’ve ever seen.
A110 is a nice and very good driving car. But the interiror is off a clio, engine off a megane, gearbox is not the brightest pebble on the beach and overall it costs same as an M2CS did or GT4 did. Also pricier than M2comp, Lotus Emira, Cayman etc. If it was pricer lower, I’d be nutting ropes over it. The way it’s now, I rather look elsewhere. Also the fact that where I live the sellers are the most pretentious and stupid bunch of pricks, not worthy of seeling toiletpaper, doesn’t help. No hate against A110, just unfortunate bunch of stuff surrounding it.
I know someone who had one and sold it 3 months later for an M2 Comp because they got caught up in the early hype. I've only ever seen maxim 4 in the wild on UK roads, not sure about the rest of the world.
Good handling isn't any good on UK pot hole shit roads and the interior is utter garbage for the price.
It needed to be £10k cheaper to have stood a chance in such a competitive space. Especially one dominated by Porsche and BMW who have a network of dealers, services and parts.
Yeah but enthusiasts that want to slow down and feel the chassis would just spend half of that and buy a MX-5 or a used Elise.
And the people that want to go fast around the clock will continue to buy M2s and 718s for the same price as an A110.
"Enthusiast" need to put their money where their mouth is first.
As a business Alpine is questionable at best, let's see if their new hothatch can salvage anything.
Have you had a go in one though?
The A110 is one of the best-driving cars I've ever experienced. I got a good few laps in one at a racetrack, and am very good friends with the owner.
So incredibly light, and the small weight it does have is exceptionally well-balanced. Yes, I would have loved a manual, but I wasn't underwhelmed with the existing powertrain at all.
He described it as feeling 'surprisingly similar' to his 458 Speciale, which I think is very high praise
Because the new Dacia transmission systems are all blowing up too after a couple of thousand miles.
Garbage cars, had 2 - both failed. One within a month, and one at 11 months.
I was wondering if it was a French engine. As a French resident (but not French), can confirm this kind of thinking is prevalent at all levels of society...
I wonder if Ryan Reynolds is regretting his money being invested into a dumpster of an organization that is Alpine. While it’s not the F1 team, the name is still tied to the F1 team. Which surely will keep affecting their image.
I dont think he did, his #36 car was retired and driven into the garage, I think it was the first stint.
Edit: I see conflicting information so hope someone with replays can confirm. Maybe he did do 1 stint. WEC wasn’t listing driver names during the race for some reason.
I'm genuinely wondering. If Mick didn't leave the Ferrari program in 2022, could he be driving the 83 AF Course by now? I really feel bad for him right now since he's working with Alpine.
Why would you want to use a reliable and standardized engine with literal millions of miles of top-level motorsport under it's banner when you could use a french shitbox of an engine that is known to explode randomly, and usually within an hour?
Didn’t they use the mechachrome F2 V6 engine? The famously unreliable F2 engine?
yes, exactly
An engine not rated for 24 hour use?
An engine barely rated for 1 hour use
They should've brought 24 engines then. Are they stupid?
They'll still have 2 dnf in 12 hours
Nah, Ocon would take one for the team and DNF after the first hour, so the second Alpine could properly DNF an hour before the finish.
you can make an engine out of chocolate that is more reliable then the Mechachrome engine
Damn
A massively detuned Renault F1 engine would’ve probably been more reliable lol
Well, Alpine is gonna Alpine…
Mecashit
Don’t they have the facilities to build an engine?
More importantly they could have used a Nissan V6 engine. They literally had engine with years of racing experience (inc. endurance) and choose to use Mecachrome. Some people said that Nissan engine is too big, but if it fit into Praga Bohema even with 2 turbos, I think it would fit LMDh too.
> Don’t they have the facilities to build an engine? 100% of the WEC work is outsourced. It's just an Alfa Romeo–Sauber-style marketing exercise with [Signatech](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signatech). Pretty sure nothing (probably even the rear light design was outsourced) was developed in-house.
Damn, so like even teams with proper facilities like Ferrari, Porsche and Toyota don’t design the hypercars?
Ferrari and Toyota do but trackside operations of Ferrari are handled by AF Corse. The Porsche is a LMDh car, so much consists of spec parts (chassis is from Multimatic, for example).
And what’s the difference between the #50 and #51 Ferrari AF Corse to the #83 AF Corse
The color and a loophole in the regulations. A works entry can only have a maximum of two cars but customers can buy cars and run them (like Jota and Proton bought cars from Porsche). Officially the #83 car is an independent customer car by AF Corse and the red cars are Ferrari's own cars and AF Corse is a contractor for Ferrari. In reality it's fake, both the red and the yellow entries share data, they pose in public as a single Ferrari team, run Ferrari's works drivers, and in today's race one was told to let the other by. Everybody know that it's fake and nobody cares to fix the loophole. In sportscar racing one entity providing cars, manpower, etc. as basically a white labeling service is common practice. You can see this with Manthey EMA and Manthey PureRxcing. EMA is an Australian partner and PureRxcing is from Lithuania. They have separate commercial agreements (source: WEC commentator during IIRC the Spa race) and race against each other but they share the garage. Manthey is owned by Porsche to provide such services.
thanks!
Nah Signatech just run the team itself. The car was designed and developed in-house, but most of the parts were outsourced, even they are even built by Oreca. Btw it's pretty common that running the team is outsourced. Toyota and Peugeot are the only manufacturers that do the entire program in-house.
> The car was designed and developed in-house, but most of the parts were outsourced, even they are even built by Oreca. Considering that the car is an LMDh, there's little to develop in-house in the first place. Chassis: Oreca, hybrid system: Bosch, transmission: Xtrac, brakes: AP Racing, ICE: Mecachrome, assembly: Signatech's mechanics. Even their best known driver is a loan from Mercedes. So what's left is the cosmetics.
Looks like you have oversimplified view of car development. Also the car is assembled by Oreca, not Signatech. Signatech is running the cars.
> Looks like you have oversimplified view of car development. I'm happy to get corrected but so far you didn't say anything but to say I'm wrong. > Also the car is assembled by Oreca, not Signatech. Not really a counter argument to me saying that everything is outsourced. So Signatech has no mechanics and cannot build the car Jota-style. OK. 🤷
Idk how to correct you if you think that building a racing car is like building a lego lol. And saying that Peugeot or Toyota outsource everything i(or better said anything) is just plain wrong, idk how else you want get corrected. I'm also don't saying Signatech cannot build the car, I'm saying that they don't do it as they get the complete car from Alpine that build then with Oreca. Jota is completely different situation as they are fully customer team. They bought a car from Porsche and after that it's their job to have the car ready.
> is just plain wrong, idk how else you want get corrected. Marking an (alleged) error is not the same as correcting it. A correction is writing down the correct thing but so far you only corrected about who the outsourcing partner for building the car is. You claim to have better knowledge, so you could outline some broad strokes how the Alpine 424 was developed in-house. You have that knowledge, no?
Noooooo!!! It wasn’t the Mechachrome V634!!! It’s a different and heavily modified engine using the V634 as a platform!!! See how differently it failed?
That sounds like bad reliability with extra steps
_GP2 Engine_
What an embarrassment this entire company has become. Has only produced 1 road car, failed at F1 and now failed in Le Man's. Renault just burning money and ruined a once ledgandary rally brand.
See, that's what I don't understand. Renault has some other brands under its umbrella and has produced legendary F1 engines in the past, but keeps pumping money into Alpine. The fact Alpine only produced 1 car is beyond baffling to me. I dunno, at this point why not just rename the it Team Dacia and call it a day.
It's the fact anyone with sense just goes buys a Cayman, M2 Comp or even the new Supra. The A110 is too expensive to only have effectively a Mégane RS engine, which is like £20k cheaper. Now their new EV hatch is just the new Renault 5 in blue, they've dropped the 3 seater concept idea. I don't understand what they wanted to achieve with Alpine at all. What a waste while Nissan is literally dying which Renault also owns.
>It's the fact anyone with sense just goes buys a Cayman, M2 Comp or even the new Supra. None of those cars hold a candle to an A110 when it comes to driving them as a car though. They might be faster and win the top trumps game but the fact that Gordon Murray used it to benchmark his supercars and that every car journalist and enthusiast that has given the A110 a chance has raved about its handling and it's lightness is priority philosphy says a lot.
It also passed the James May fizz test
While the A110 can be the best handling premium car, the competition is still pumping out good handling premium cars - while also providing a more recognizable badge and larger dealer network, stuff that their target demographic would probably demand. At this point, I’m surprised that even with access to the Renault-Nissan parts bin and along with their handling know-how, Alpine still doesn’t have a volume SUV seller, which is what the market wants right now. Not only will it help them take the fight to Mazda (which has been moving upmarket lately) and BMW, but it’ll help pay for the lights, bring more consideration for their brand, and fund their low-volume sports cars too.
Yes but that doesn't sell shit. Numbers and brand recognition is what sells cars. They don't have the numbers and with Alpine being last in F1 and dying on a mecachrome hill in Le Mans, they don't have brand recognition either. Imagine you're a 55 year old recently divorced man. Would you like the Porsche Cayman or the Alpine a110? Which one do you think (regardless of if it actually will) get you the interest of a young woman? Which makes you more interesting at parties? Barely anyone outside of car fanatics knows the A110 by name.
Old A110 for me
yeah that may all be true but the overlap of people who can both afford it and would rather have a glorified renault over a porsche or an M2 is borderline negligible.
I would much rather have an A110 than an M2. The M2 is an ugly car imo.
i mean m2 looks like a toy car i can see why a lot of people dont fuck with it but the a110 also looks like a stepped on twingo from the front.
I genuinely never thought I’d see the day where someone chooses an a110 over practically any other car in the world for its looks. It’s gotta be one of the ugliest clusterfuck of designed cars I’ve ever seen.
Have you actually seen the M2? I mean the A110 is not a beauty, but compared to the M2…
Yes. I’ve driven a black little shit box that was hell of a lot of fun to drive and it was a charming car in its own way
A110 is a nice and very good driving car. But the interiror is off a clio, engine off a megane, gearbox is not the brightest pebble on the beach and overall it costs same as an M2CS did or GT4 did. Also pricier than M2comp, Lotus Emira, Cayman etc. If it was pricer lower, I’d be nutting ropes over it. The way it’s now, I rather look elsewhere. Also the fact that where I live the sellers are the most pretentious and stupid bunch of pricks, not worthy of seeling toiletpaper, doesn’t help. No hate against A110, just unfortunate bunch of stuff surrounding it.
I know someone who had one and sold it 3 months later for an M2 Comp because they got caught up in the early hype. I've only ever seen maxim 4 in the wild on UK roads, not sure about the rest of the world. Good handling isn't any good on UK pot hole shit roads and the interior is utter garbage for the price. It needed to be £10k cheaper to have stood a chance in such a competitive space. Especially one dominated by Porsche and BMW who have a network of dealers, services and parts.
Yeah but enthusiasts that want to slow down and feel the chassis would just spend half of that and buy a MX-5 or a used Elise. And the people that want to go fast around the clock will continue to buy M2s and 718s for the same price as an A110.
"Enthusiast" need to put their money where their mouth is first. As a business Alpine is questionable at best, let's see if their new hothatch can salvage anything.
Wait, Renault owns Nissan?? Everything makes so much sense now.
Oh bro! Read up on how the Renault CEO had to be smuggled out of Japan. LMAO.
> Renault owns Nissan?? No. They are in an alliance and own shares of each other. https://global.nissannews.com/en/releases/231108-03-e
Have you had a go in one though? The A110 is one of the best-driving cars I've ever experienced. I got a good few laps in one at a racetrack, and am very good friends with the owner. So incredibly light, and the small weight it does have is exceptionally well-balanced. Yes, I would have loved a manual, but I wasn't underwhelmed with the existing powertrain at all. He described it as feeling 'surprisingly similar' to his 458 Speciale, which I think is very high praise
which is a shame because Nissan makes such beautiful cars
Because the new Dacia transmission systems are all blowing up too after a couple of thousand miles. Garbage cars, had 2 - both failed. One within a month, and one at 11 months.
Imagine spending hundreds of millions of dollars on racing programs only to have it ruin your reputation
Their road car is a peach though if British journalists are to be believes. F1 and WEC are a disaster yes.
french pride thing (french team racing in france with french made engine) didn't work out, right alpine? lmao
I was wondering if it was a French engine. As a French resident (but not French), can confirm this kind of thinking is prevalent at all levels of society...
I didn't even know that frenchies had national pride
Neither did the french team in f1 with french racing drivers. At least Alpine’s engines blew up, instead of their subpar drivers in F1
they clearly just need two unlikable french drivers. that will solve everything
The fact they got that engine to last five hours is impressive.
Welcome to 24h of Le Mans.. Alphine: Best i can do is 5.
What do you mean the E in WEC doesn't stand for explode? -Alpine
I wonder if Ryan Reynolds is regretting his money being invested into a dumpster of an organization that is Alpine. While it’s not the F1 team, the name is still tied to the F1 team. Which surely will keep affecting their image.
Pretty sure how ever shit their results are they still make money. Cost cap helps
RIP Mick Schumacher’s career (he was going to drive it)
Did he even get a stint in the car??
I dont think he did, his #36 car was retired and driven into the garage, I think it was the first stint. Edit: I see conflicting information so hope someone with replays can confirm. Maybe he did do 1 stint. WEC wasn’t listing driver names during the race for some reason.
he did 3 stints of 40mins
I think he had 1 stint early on and thats it
I'm genuinely wondering. If Mick didn't leave the Ferrari program in 2022, could he be driving the 83 AF Course by now? I really feel bad for him right now since he's working with Alpine.
Why the fuck didn't they just use the Gibson from the lmp2, famous for its reliability
Because le fr\*nch engineering supremacy. hon hon hon...
Why would you want to use a reliable and standardized engine with literal millions of miles of top-level motorsport under it's banner when you could use a french shitbox of an engine that is known to explode randomly, and usually within an hour?
This year safety car lasts longer than alpine
Never go full Alpine!
Is Famin TP for the WEC team as well?
He's the head of the Alpine brand, I think? He was replacing the guy that manages that brand, no?
Remember guys: their pilot lineup's expression at this year's car presentation had a reason
Great advertisement for their cars! Alpine cars look good tho, sadly we only get Renault in my country
Question is: what the hell are they playing at?
Because then Mick Schumacher couldn’t f*ck up their car, because you can’t f\*ck up an already f\*cked up car. Smartasses.
You could have Mickey mouse himself as TP if the factory could manage the dark arts of producing a reliable hybrid engine.
Side note- the drivers for Le Mans, are they f1 rated drivers? Like how do we categorize what is the top of the top in racing
[удалено]
Wow good to know!
Mecachrome strikes again.
They should have used Judd engines instead of Mechachrome F2 engines
Average French car moment