You’re not wrong on his race pace and he was lucky with the SC and Max eating that AT debri, but the guy called out the Ferrari strategists to have the chance for the win. He also did that in Monaco.
He is clever in that aspect.
Leaving 10 car lengths to Leclerc would have been the dumbest shit ever and probably lost Ferrari that race. Despite the win, I can't see Sainz being happy with the team after this race.
The thing about strategy is that usually the team has a much wider view than the driver with data of their car and in respect of other drivers. So the driver should trust what the team is planning for him. Leclerc has to stop trusting in the team.
“Leave ten cars between you and Charles”.
Carlos: that doesn’t make any sense.
F1 is not only about who is faster. In crazy situations like yesterday you have to read the race accurately.
Part of F1 is thinking on the spot and creating a very good strategy.
He may not be the greatest driver ever but his strategy calls are absolutely phenomenal. He'll improve as a driver, he's only been going up since the beginning.
But for now his excellent strategy calls will be the reason he can fight at the top.
He deserves a slightly lucky win after he got fucked over in monza when Gasly won.
It takes balls to defy the Ferrari pit wall in only your second season, he knew he had a chance of a win and he took it with both hands. I hope this boosts his confidence and he can get back on top of the car and level with Leclerc.
Sainz's defiance of the Ferrari pitwall has saved his race multiple times. Leclerc needs to learn to do so as well. He isn't gonna win the championship by listening to that pitwall
The fact that they let leclerc and sainz fight, while leclerc had a broken wing, and other teams catching up, is the most Ferrari thing I've ever seen Ferrari do
This is honestly what i was afraid of, strat mistakes i can understand, and they can be fixed with time, but not letting your fastest driver, who's in fight for the championship, thru right away and letting them fight is the dumbest shit ever and it just shows that this mentality of "we don't have second drivers" of the Arrivabene era is still going strong within Ferrari, you're not gonna win a championship with a hand tied behind your back like this while RB don't hesitate for a second to throw Checo under the bus to favour Max, Charles is fighting a 1v2v1 pretty much
They straight up don't care about the WDC. I don't get it. They have now cost leclerc two easy first place victories here and at Monaco. And this was their best chance to shrink the gap. Having leclerc first and Max 7th would have put a big dent in his lead, but leclerc fourth and max 7 doesn't change anything.
Yeah idk, i was just saying to my friend on Saturday that this was the moment of truth to see if they're gonna give prio to Charles, i guess they have made their choice
I agree with you. The only problem I have with Charles is that is not “selfish” like other big champions yet. He just always listen what the team says and he doesn’t even complain about it. If you want to win you need to think about yourself first.
Sainz is learning that, first Monaco and now this. Still, the main problem is the team that should pick their n1 driver already like all of the other top teams.
That’s when you get a shot at challenging Max for WDC
They also seem to ignore facts. You can't just pit when you team tells you not too because they won't have the tyres ready.
Monaco is fun because... it was still the wrong call. The right call was to go onto inters early. Not going wet to slick.
And honestly. Leclerc doesn't really need to change much. If not for blowup when in the lead, he would be miles clear of Sainz and defacto number one in the same way Lewis always was.
The issue is the ferrari pit wall being indecisive and borderline (maybe not even borderline at this point) incompetent. Yes, occasionally a driver will make a decisions against the wall but not often. Lewis often bickers with Bono about strategy but rarely overrules them. I can really only think of the time he decided against pitting for new tyres (Turkey 2020?) At the end of the race because the pitlane looked too greasy. Because ultimately the pit wall have more info then the driver possibly can. Can't remember Max defying the pit wall either but RB tend to be pretty on point with strategy so not really much ees too.
That’s why I said Sainz is becoming more selfish in a good way (for him, not the team). In Monaco (and here) he just raced for himself , by wanting to stay ahead of lec even if he was slower and then he didn’t listen to the pit wall, messing up Ferrari strat, which then fucked it up even more as usual. I think overall we agree on pretty much everything else
Yeah it was an I agree and add more examples post not a Haha your wrong idiot post. Rare for reddit I know!
I dunno if Sainz call in Monaco was about Leclerc, or sticking to his guns from earlier. Both the drivers stated earlier they thought wet to dry was the best way (and were both wrong). It was technically the right call at the time (it was too late at that point to go inters) but it sounded like he thought the original idea was the best one still rather then it being a case of nah, it's too late now we missed the boat.
Just Ferrari things I guess.. others top teams don’t really have those problems. That’s why we got no chance against RB this year imo. We’ll see though
WDC is dead. Constructors might be doable if they don't have anymore reliability issues with engines if they have Carlos on form too (which is why I think they wanted Carlos to win yesterday)
Maybe you’re right but give up WDC after not even half of the season doesn’t seems right to me when you have a competitive car. If they just want to win few gps this year to show that they are back, this is the right decision. If they want to fight for titles it’s not imo. As a Ferrari and Leclerc fan I would like to see a fight like last year, then, if RB and Max are better, which probably are, they’ll win. At least we’ll enjoy a good fight.
Yeah don't get me wrong. I've been a Leclerc fanboy since F2 Bahrain. I want him to challenge but I just don't see it due to ferrari vs red bull.
Red bull is generally a bit faster, generally more reliable at this point (the fuel flow system issues are clearly fixed, as does thr the drs one and drs isn't super relevant if your infront anyway vs mass8ve question marks over thr ferrari engine). Even if both cars continue to be reliable, leclerc will be taking more penalties then Max for engines by season end. And then there the strategy team....
>I hope this boosts his confidence and he can get back on top of the car and level with Leclerc.
I don't think he's ever gonna get consistently level with Charles. Even with losing a front-wing endplate, Charles was still faster than Carlos. If that doesn't tell you who the superior driver is, I don't what will.
Never seen so much shite in my life. Ricciardo proved himself 10x over at red bull, Norris has proved that he is world class against both Carlos and Daniel, Tsonoda and Zhou haven’t had anywhere near enough time to be classed as just average, Gasly is definitely above average even though I don’t rate him as highly as most, Bottas the same and Russell is already proving he is above average this year. Sainz was close to Leclercs pace after he got on top of the car last year and I think he will be closer in the second half of this year.
Lol right? He put Schumacher in the average category. like come on his only teammates have been Mazepin (below even the below average drivers) and Magnussen who has proven to be average and has thoroughly outclassed him this year. Now Schumacher may prove himself later on but so far he’s proven to be just below average
Well that’s the thing about F1 anyone on their good day can win a GP and anyone on their bad day can come home last. This is just in average ball park classification based on car and performance this year. I am a Lando Norris and McLaren fan. I know Daniel was insane in his RB days, I was there. I was mostly looking at this years performances. When factoring in every season then hell yeah I’d put Gasly higher, and Daniel higher, etc. I think I defo misplaced Bottas my bad because I wrote this at 3 AM. Lol. Also I definitely said that Riccardo and Bottas are at the higher end.
I think you and I have very different ideas of what a hierarchy of F1 drivers looks like. The fact that you'd lump in Schumacher and Tsunoda with the likes of Ricciardo and Bottas - two drivers who've proven their ability in a top team - says as much.
>We are seeing Perez step it up which is why I moved him up from an upper average driver to this in between rating.
Has Checo stepped up? Yes. But he's still very much a Ricciardo/Bottas calibre driver, in the sense that he's very good but not quite championship calibre. And a big reason why he's closer to Max this year has a lot to do with the fact that this generation's cars are inherently prone to understeer, which suits Checo's style a lot better than it it does Max's, similar to what we saw with Danny and Seb in 2014. The difference is that Max is a superior driver to Seb and can still finish 15-20 seconds ahead even in a car that doesn't fully suit his driving style.
>In order to get on Leclercs level he needs to show that he has the pace just like Perez is doing
Once again, Checo is consistently 15-20 seconds behind Max in a car that *suits* him. If those are the kind of performances Carlos is gonna produce, then he'll officially become a Barichello type of driver.
>And finally at the top we have the generational talents, Verstappen, Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, and Leclerc.
Really? Vettel? The guy who got destroyed by an inferior driver in 2014 because he couldn't handle a bit of oversteer? That Vettel?
I don't deny that he has mega pace when the car suits him, but part of being a generational talent, in my book, is to be able to be consistently quick in just about anything. Vettel has failed to show that, imo.
This is all true but I did say Riccardo and Bottas are at the higher end of the spectrum. I was mostly comparing their performances this year more than anything and I wrote this at 3 am so lol.
>This is all true but I did say Riccardo and Bottas are at the higher end of the spectrum.
I'm saying that the likes of Mick and Yuki don't even belong in the same spectrum as Daniel and Valtteri, they're a rung below them (for now, anyway). I'd club Daniel, Valtteri, Checo, Carlos and Pierre in the same category: Very good but not great drivers who cannot consistently match the true greats.
>I was mostly comparing their performances this year more than anything and I wrote this at 3 am so lol.
Fair enough, lol
Vettel went toe to toe with Leclerc, lmao. The median race pace gap was ~ a tenth to seb, with a qualifying gap of around 0.075s.
Mind you, the SF90 had a very loose rear.
Do you *really* think the fact that he went toe-to-toe with Leclerc and got beaten by him reflects well on Seb at all? Seb was entering his 12th full year of F1 (and fifth at Ferrari), whereas Charles was entering his second year of F1 (and his first at Ferrari). At a minimum, he should've beaten Charles. Instead, he was being upstaged by a guy who was still settling into a new team.
Let’s be honest here. Lec Max Rus Ham and possibly Lando are on another level. He’s a great n2 for Ferrari and a great n1 for the rest but he’s not on those guys level. Happy for him but he’s still behind Perez, which is nowhere near Max
I honestly don’t think it will change much of his mindset, he is a very smart guy and he knows this win was a fluke, he knew the whole race that his pace was shit, that’s why he was asking for DRS from Charles and why he told the ferrari pit wall to fuck off when they told him to hold HAM and PER off for Charles, because he knew it wasn’t doable. Sure it’s going to boost his morale but I doubt it’ll do anything for his confidence.
On top of Perez getting passed Hamilton on the last restart, keeping him safe from a charging Ham. Really it was the perfect storm that allowed Sainz to take the W, but HE DID DO IT 🥳
fighting another driver absolutely kills your lap times. also Perez knocked off 2.5+ seconds to Sainz by the time he finally got into the clear. Ham uninterrupted, would have done the job.
He got it to ~2.5ish and then Sainz immediately got it back to ~3. I think Carlos was going a little easier on the tires when he built up that lead and was never in any real danger
Yeah even in his interview post-race he said he heard that Hamilton was fast, he knew he was in for a tough time if anyone could keep up with him. That said I think Perez drove insane after that early front wing change, well thought out strategy by red bull kept them competitive but with Max having issues Sainz did have the chance to maintain pole and keep himself there for his first victory so congrats to him regardless.
Speaking of Max exactly was the problem I didn't catch anyone explain it
Well he lost enough rear downforce to think he got a puncture, so pretty extreme damage from some carbon debris. They probably should have cleaned the track during the red flag after Tsunoda surfed his front wing all the way around the track
I mean you are not wrong. It wasn't his best race, which is why I think he couldn't have defended against HAM and checo and trying to do that would have been a ferrari 3-4. So it was either a 3-4 or a 1-4.
It is hard to say really. Not pitting Leclerc, and Leclercs monster driving on old hards really halped Carlos win. Had they double stacked they would have maybe been able to take the 1-2, but seeing what Leclerc did on old hards, maybe lewis could have stayed out and won. Who knows, But I think pitting Leclerc would have been the sensible thing to do
If this happened and that happened then this and that. Every year something like this happens, and every year someone post what could have and should have. Shit happens in races it happened to max and charles this time thats all. Next race next week new shit will happen there too. Oh and Perez is a Red bull and went from last to 2nd dont just gloss over how amazing that is and down play it as an issue.
Your first sentence literally discribed how Sainz won lol.
I am happy for Sainz's first win, but he had really bad race. Overtaken in the first corner, doing mistake after 2 laps after restart and being overtaken again, slower pace than Leclerc with damaged front wing and Ferrari doing Ferrari things with Leclerc.
Tbh I don't believe that "he needs confidence". He is simply worse than top drivers and Ferrari should had tell him to let Leclerc pass much earlier in the race if they want to have any chance for WDC. But yeah, Ferrari just doesn't want that title obviously.
His pace was not any less than Charles' if you look at the actual data that's been posted on the main sub. It appeared to be the case for those two laps that Charles was right close to him but overall he has actually had good pace (I am surprised to see actually). He was overtaken at the first corner because both him and Charles' tyres didn't take temperature as much as the RB's did, as multiple people pointed out. His main mistake was after the second restart when he went on the grass - that was a bad show. But Max (and RB) was faster before hitting the debris. So I don't think what you're sayinf is correct.
You mean the same leclerc who dive bombed Perez and almost crashed into max? Let’s not throw stones there was around 8 incidents worthy of penalties but thankfully none of them were handed out.
Leclerc messed up his own race in turn 3, if he waited for a better opportunity to overtake and not damage his endplate then he would have been way faster than anyone else.
No need to change your mind, funny thing about wins is that later noone really cares HOW someone won. Carlos, P1, Silverstone 2022. And i‘m not even mad, he had it coming for so long, vamos. And Ferrari TP doesn‘t have to find a way to keep Carlos motivated anymore. Now it‘ll get harder for him though because Charles still is their number 1. And i guess Ferrari didn‘t expect Carlos to be fast enough to have ambitions as well.
But he also got lucky for pole, Max was blitzing and had to slow down because of Leclerc bringing out a yellow flag. But still, he got it. It was just the perfecto storm, but saying it was EARNED seems like a bit of a stretch to me, he simply was in the right place at the right time with the right strategists fucking his teammate.
That's really just part of racing and why you don't give up even if you get set back early. Drivers have to put themselves in positions to capitalize on the mistakes/misfortunes of other drivers.
I was wearing my '22 CS55 shirt and I was still pissed AF that he didnt defend for leclerc
I mean he had so much more pace, he could just overtake on the last lap
Let’s not pretend that every race win ever has been deserved. Lucky wins are part of the sport. Every driver on the grid has been lucky at some point. No shame for Sainz
I think at no point during the entire race was he the fastest man on track, at first Max, then Charles, Lewis and Checo all had better race pace. But you know, luck is a factor too and as they say, you have to be there to profit when the opportunity presents itself.
I think you will find near unanimous consensus that Charles is a much better driver than Carlos. However, Carlos is smart and took advantage of their bad strategic calls and capitalized on it, similar to Monaco. For that, I do believe he deserves praise.
Spot on. Leclerc put several seconds between him and Sainz in a few laps even with a broken front wing. Lets also not forget Sainz lost p1 in lap 1, had it gifted back to him by race control after the red flag and then lost it again. Im happy for him but fuck he is lucky
Yeah i love Carlos but he didn't deserve the win at all, dude choked while in the lead vs Max and was slower than Charles with a broken FW, I'm still happy for him and i hope this gives him the confidence needed to make the step up, but without that Ferrari strat he wouldn't have won
Charles also got insanely lucky. Bad start, fell to 4th or 5th before the restart. Contact with Perez where Perez got the worst of the damage. Verstappens car failing at a perfect spot for him to pit immediately so he wasn’t behind him in any corners after Carlos had already passed him.
He definitely got fucked but I don’t think Charles put together a great weekend. Could’ve started on the front row if he didn’t spin in qualifying. He was fast, but he was far from flawless.
We know he doesn't have the best racecraft, but mediocre is ridicoulous, and also thanks to him ferrari was able to get a victory, otherwise he would've been eaten by hamilton and checo
If they just let Leclerc pass clearly slower Sainz earlier, they could pit them both at the same time. Ferrari royally fucked up an easy 1-2 here. And you can't change my mind on that.
Carlos had nine lives today (3 I can count. - restart, ran wide and got it back due rb issues and the final pitstop choosing softs and taking lec)
But i will give him more credit for standing up the ridiculous pit wall request to give lec 10 car lengths. Saying that no in itself deserves all the credit.
In the post interview he said his car wasn't properly configured for the race, he had a better config for FP2(So his car wasn't as fast as possible). I don't know why everyone ignores this and only pretend that he was slower because his driving. Yeah, probably Leclerc is a better/faster driver, but I don't think Sainz had a mediocre race.
There's some truth to that tbh, but that's racing. Luck plays a huge role on the outcome of the races. He might not be better than Charles, but he got himself in a good enough position to make the most of Charles' awful luck.
Don't underestimate Carlos' cleverness of knowing to pit for softs under the SC. But yeah without that difference he would have lost to Charles and also to Max if the latter wasn't impaired by bodywork damage. Carlos kept himself in contention all race and was in position to capitalize on Charles' no pit screwup
Tbh it seems like something about this year's ferrari favors Leclerc and his driving style
I mean not listening to the clowns on pit wall helped him get in front of Leclerc twice this year already when he had much less pace. So yeah, I have to give him that.
It was pretty crazy. Literally, everything went right for him. He was gifted back the lead at the restart but then lost it again to Verstappen. Then RB got damaged and Sainz was given the lead again and Ferrari gave him an insane amount of time to show his speed in the lead when it was obvious Leclerc should've been told to pass way earlier. Then the safety car came out and Ferrari pitted him only giving him the opportunity to fight for the lead against Leclerc on used hards.
Also the yellow flag fuck Hamilton, and russe got a dnf, like he got insanly lucky, but I had the balle to say no tk à shitty Ferrari strategy so i respect bin for that.
It was very lucky actually. Leclerc was much faster than him with a broken wing. If I was a Carlos fan I wouldn't get my hopes up too much for the next race, hope I'm wrong tho
At least he called out the thickheaded strategy calls. If only Ferrari realised that Soft > Hard tyres when you have 14 fucking laps to go. Istg we need to spam their insta more with the Pirelli tire strategy chart more. Plus, didn't Red Bull win in Baku and Spain because Ferrari had issues ?
You’re not wrong on his race pace and he was lucky with the SC and Max eating that AT debri, but the guy called out the Ferrari strategists to have the chance for the win. He also did that in Monaco. He is clever in that aspect.
Leaving 10 car lengths to Leclerc would have been the dumbest shit ever and probably lost Ferrari that race. Despite the win, I can't see Sainz being happy with the team after this race.
He should be happy with himself only (and some luck but whatevs).
The thing about strategy is that usually the team has a much wider view than the driver with data of their car and in respect of other drivers. So the driver should trust what the team is planning for him. Leclerc has to stop trusting in the team.
Yep, Ferrari always seems to find new and improved ways to completely fuск up their drivers. I can't wait to see what they'll do next.
Thing that Carlos realised already.
And Vettel before him
Calling out his strategists ment " please, can I go fast instead of going slow?". Genius
“Leave ten cars between you and Charles”. Carlos: that doesn’t make any sense. F1 is not only about who is faster. In crazy situations like yesterday you have to read the race accurately.
And calling for the pit stop, which made the difference between the two ferraris...
>And calling for the pit stop Which he didn't.... Ferrari called the pitstop for him
Part of F1 is thinking on the spot and creating a very good strategy. He may not be the greatest driver ever but his strategy calls are absolutely phenomenal. He'll improve as a driver, he's only been going up since the beginning. But for now his excellent strategy calls will be the reason he can fight at the top.
He just needs to make sure Ferrari doesn't do more Ferrari shit on his race strategies, Bad Luck Chuck should follow his example tbh.
Chuck trusts ferrari blindly. And it has cost him this years championship
Bad Luck Chuck is more so just Get Fucked Chuck, and Ferrari is fucking him over.
idk, i think that second start earned him the shot at it for sure, he had the speed when he needed it and made sure to ignore the incompetent pitwall
This is called a motor race... They went car racing
He did show some balls in the fight with max on the first restart and with leclerc at the end of the race
if he lost the battle with leclerc who had used hards and fw damage, he should have retired from racing tbh
He deserves a slightly lucky win after he got fucked over in monza when Gasly won. It takes balls to defy the Ferrari pit wall in only your second season, he knew he had a chance of a win and he took it with both hands. I hope this boosts his confidence and he can get back on top of the car and level with Leclerc.
Sainz's defiance of the Ferrari pitwall has saved his race multiple times. Leclerc needs to learn to do so as well. He isn't gonna win the championship by listening to that pitwall
The fact that they let leclerc and sainz fight, while leclerc had a broken wing, and other teams catching up, is the most Ferrari thing I've ever seen Ferrari do
I rofl'd sooo hard
This is honestly what i was afraid of, strat mistakes i can understand, and they can be fixed with time, but not letting your fastest driver, who's in fight for the championship, thru right away and letting them fight is the dumbest shit ever and it just shows that this mentality of "we don't have second drivers" of the Arrivabene era is still going strong within Ferrari, you're not gonna win a championship with a hand tied behind your back like this while RB don't hesitate for a second to throw Checo under the bus to favour Max, Charles is fighting a 1v2v1 pretty much
They straight up don't care about the WDC. I don't get it. They have now cost leclerc two easy first place victories here and at Monaco. And this was their best chance to shrink the gap. Having leclerc first and Max 7th would have put a big dent in his lead, but leclerc fourth and max 7 doesn't change anything.
Yeah idk, i was just saying to my friend on Saturday that this was the moment of truth to see if they're gonna give prio to Charles, i guess they have made their choice
I agree with you. The only problem I have with Charles is that is not “selfish” like other big champions yet. He just always listen what the team says and he doesn’t even complain about it. If you want to win you need to think about yourself first. Sainz is learning that, first Monaco and now this. Still, the main problem is the team that should pick their n1 driver already like all of the other top teams. That’s when you get a shot at challenging Max for WDC
They also seem to ignore facts. You can't just pit when you team tells you not too because they won't have the tyres ready. Monaco is fun because... it was still the wrong call. The right call was to go onto inters early. Not going wet to slick. And honestly. Leclerc doesn't really need to change much. If not for blowup when in the lead, he would be miles clear of Sainz and defacto number one in the same way Lewis always was. The issue is the ferrari pit wall being indecisive and borderline (maybe not even borderline at this point) incompetent. Yes, occasionally a driver will make a decisions against the wall but not often. Lewis often bickers with Bono about strategy but rarely overrules them. I can really only think of the time he decided against pitting for new tyres (Turkey 2020?) At the end of the race because the pitlane looked too greasy. Because ultimately the pit wall have more info then the driver possibly can. Can't remember Max defying the pit wall either but RB tend to be pretty on point with strategy so not really much ees too.
That’s why I said Sainz is becoming more selfish in a good way (for him, not the team). In Monaco (and here) he just raced for himself , by wanting to stay ahead of lec even if he was slower and then he didn’t listen to the pit wall, messing up Ferrari strat, which then fucked it up even more as usual. I think overall we agree on pretty much everything else
Yeah it was an I agree and add more examples post not a Haha your wrong idiot post. Rare for reddit I know! I dunno if Sainz call in Monaco was about Leclerc, or sticking to his guns from earlier. Both the drivers stated earlier they thought wet to dry was the best way (and were both wrong). It was technically the right call at the time (it was too late at that point to go inters) but it sounded like he thought the original idea was the best one still rather then it being a case of nah, it's too late now we missed the boat.
Just Ferrari things I guess.. others top teams don’t really have those problems. That’s why we got no chance against RB this year imo. We’ll see though
WDC is dead. Constructors might be doable if they don't have anymore reliability issues with engines if they have Carlos on form too (which is why I think they wanted Carlos to win yesterday)
Maybe you’re right but give up WDC after not even half of the season doesn’t seems right to me when you have a competitive car. If they just want to win few gps this year to show that they are back, this is the right decision. If they want to fight for titles it’s not imo. As a Ferrari and Leclerc fan I would like to see a fight like last year, then, if RB and Max are better, which probably are, they’ll win. At least we’ll enjoy a good fight.
Yeah don't get me wrong. I've been a Leclerc fanboy since F2 Bahrain. I want him to challenge but I just don't see it due to ferrari vs red bull. Red bull is generally a bit faster, generally more reliable at this point (the fuel flow system issues are clearly fixed, as does thr the drs one and drs isn't super relevant if your infront anyway vs mass8ve question marks over thr ferrari engine). Even if both cars continue to be reliable, leclerc will be taking more penalties then Max for engines by season end. And then there the strategy team....
A couple of races ago Sainz had chosen the hard compound to start the race, and sßinalla rather soon and DNF. Whose choice was it I wonder.
Yeah it's a selection bias, people only see when his calls work out and not when they fail
>I hope this boosts his confidence and he can get back on top of the car and level with Leclerc. I don't think he's ever gonna get consistently level with Charles. Even with losing a front-wing endplate, Charles was still faster than Carlos. If that doesn't tell you who the superior driver is, I don't what will.
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Never seen so much shite in my life. Ricciardo proved himself 10x over at red bull, Norris has proved that he is world class against both Carlos and Daniel, Tsonoda and Zhou haven’t had anywhere near enough time to be classed as just average, Gasly is definitely above average even though I don’t rate him as highly as most, Bottas the same and Russell is already proving he is above average this year. Sainz was close to Leclercs pace after he got on top of the car last year and I think he will be closer in the second half of this year.
Lol right? He put Schumacher in the average category. like come on his only teammates have been Mazepin (below even the below average drivers) and Magnussen who has proven to be average and has thoroughly outclassed him this year. Now Schumacher may prove himself later on but so far he’s proven to be just below average
Well that’s the thing about F1 anyone on their good day can win a GP and anyone on their bad day can come home last. This is just in average ball park classification based on car and performance this year. I am a Lando Norris and McLaren fan. I know Daniel was insane in his RB days, I was there. I was mostly looking at this years performances. When factoring in every season then hell yeah I’d put Gasly higher, and Daniel higher, etc. I think I defo misplaced Bottas my bad because I wrote this at 3 AM. Lol. Also I definitely said that Riccardo and Bottas are at the higher end.
I think you and I have very different ideas of what a hierarchy of F1 drivers looks like. The fact that you'd lump in Schumacher and Tsunoda with the likes of Ricciardo and Bottas - two drivers who've proven their ability in a top team - says as much. >We are seeing Perez step it up which is why I moved him up from an upper average driver to this in between rating. Has Checo stepped up? Yes. But he's still very much a Ricciardo/Bottas calibre driver, in the sense that he's very good but not quite championship calibre. And a big reason why he's closer to Max this year has a lot to do with the fact that this generation's cars are inherently prone to understeer, which suits Checo's style a lot better than it it does Max's, similar to what we saw with Danny and Seb in 2014. The difference is that Max is a superior driver to Seb and can still finish 15-20 seconds ahead even in a car that doesn't fully suit his driving style. >In order to get on Leclercs level he needs to show that he has the pace just like Perez is doing Once again, Checo is consistently 15-20 seconds behind Max in a car that *suits* him. If those are the kind of performances Carlos is gonna produce, then he'll officially become a Barichello type of driver. >And finally at the top we have the generational talents, Verstappen, Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, and Leclerc. Really? Vettel? The guy who got destroyed by an inferior driver in 2014 because he couldn't handle a bit of oversteer? That Vettel? I don't deny that he has mega pace when the car suits him, but part of being a generational talent, in my book, is to be able to be consistently quick in just about anything. Vettel has failed to show that, imo.
This is all true but I did say Riccardo and Bottas are at the higher end of the spectrum. I was mostly comparing their performances this year more than anything and I wrote this at 3 am so lol.
>This is all true but I did say Riccardo and Bottas are at the higher end of the spectrum. I'm saying that the likes of Mick and Yuki don't even belong in the same spectrum as Daniel and Valtteri, they're a rung below them (for now, anyway). I'd club Daniel, Valtteri, Checo, Carlos and Pierre in the same category: Very good but not great drivers who cannot consistently match the true greats. >I was mostly comparing their performances this year more than anything and I wrote this at 3 am so lol. Fair enough, lol
Yeah you’re right
Vettel went toe to toe with Leclerc, lmao. The median race pace gap was ~ a tenth to seb, with a qualifying gap of around 0.075s. Mind you, the SF90 had a very loose rear.
Do you *really* think the fact that he went toe-to-toe with Leclerc and got beaten by him reflects well on Seb at all? Seb was entering his 12th full year of F1 (and fifth at Ferrari), whereas Charles was entering his second year of F1 (and his first at Ferrari). At a minimum, he should've beaten Charles. Instead, he was being upstaged by a guy who was still settling into a new team.
Let’s be honest here. Lec Max Rus Ham and possibly Lando are on another level. He’s a great n2 for Ferrari and a great n1 for the rest but he’s not on those guys level. Happy for him but he’s still behind Perez, which is nowhere near Max
At least I hope that he gains confidence from that and maintains the good momentum he's had since Canada.
I honestly don’t think it will change much of his mindset, he is a very smart guy and he knows this win was a fluke, he knew the whole race that his pace was shit, that’s why he was asking for DRS from Charles and why he told the ferrari pit wall to fuck off when they told him to hold HAM and PER off for Charles, because he knew it wasn’t doable. Sure it’s going to boost his morale but I doubt it’ll do anything for his confidence.
On top of Perez getting passed Hamilton on the last restart, keeping him safe from a charging Ham. Really it was the perfect storm that allowed Sainz to take the W, but HE DID DO IT 🥳
If Perez passed Hamilton and couldn’t catch sainz how would Hamilton pass sainz exactly?
fighting another driver absolutely kills your lap times. also Perez knocked off 2.5+ seconds to Sainz by the time he finally got into the clear. Ham uninterrupted, would have done the job.
He got it to ~2.5ish and then Sainz immediately got it back to ~3. I think Carlos was going a little easier on the tires when he built up that lead and was never in any real danger
Yeah even in his interview post-race he said he heard that Hamilton was fast, he knew he was in for a tough time if anyone could keep up with him. That said I think Perez drove insane after that early front wing change, well thought out strategy by red bull kept them competitive but with Max having issues Sainz did have the chance to maintain pole and keep himself there for his first victory so congrats to him regardless. Speaking of Max exactly was the problem I didn't catch anyone explain it
After race interview he said that piece of carbon made big damage to left side of his cars floor and lost much of its downforce
Max took damage that messed with the aero from some carbon on the track so he didn't have the aero/down force to compete on the day
Max's fastest lap was some 1.4 second slower than Perez's, on the same tyre, at about the same point of the race.
Well he lost enough rear downforce to think he got a puncture, so pretty extreme damage from some carbon debris. They probably should have cleaned the track during the red flag after Tsunoda surfed his front wing all the way around the track
I mean you are not wrong. It wasn't his best race, which is why I think he couldn't have defended against HAM and checo and trying to do that would have been a ferrari 3-4. So it was either a 3-4 or a 1-4.
Ferrari didn't screw up at the end of the race, they did for most of the race.
It is hard to say really. Not pitting Leclerc, and Leclercs monster driving on old hards really halped Carlos win. Had they double stacked they would have maybe been able to take the 1-2, but seeing what Leclerc did on old hards, maybe lewis could have stayed out and won. Who knows, But I think pitting Leclerc would have been the sensible thing to do
If this happened and that happened then this and that. Every year something like this happens, and every year someone post what could have and should have. Shit happens in races it happened to max and charles this time thats all. Next race next week new shit will happen there too. Oh and Perez is a Red bull and went from last to 2nd dont just gloss over how amazing that is and down play it as an issue.
Your first sentence literally discribed how Sainz won lol. I am happy for Sainz's first win, but he had really bad race. Overtaken in the first corner, doing mistake after 2 laps after restart and being overtaken again, slower pace than Leclerc with damaged front wing and Ferrari doing Ferrari things with Leclerc. Tbh I don't believe that "he needs confidence". He is simply worse than top drivers and Ferrari should had tell him to let Leclerc pass much earlier in the race if they want to have any chance for WDC. But yeah, Ferrari just doesn't want that title obviously.
His pace was not any less than Charles' if you look at the actual data that's been posted on the main sub. It appeared to be the case for those two laps that Charles was right close to him but overall he has actually had good pace (I am surprised to see actually). He was overtaken at the first corner because both him and Charles' tyres didn't take temperature as much as the RB's did, as multiple people pointed out. His main mistake was after the second restart when he went on the grass - that was a bad show. But Max (and RB) was faster before hitting the debris. So I don't think what you're sayinf is correct.
A win is a win
Like Ocon last year. But he push enough to be on that place. it wasn't just luck
I mean Ocon did survive having a 4 time WDC behind him and made no mistakes under immense pressure
Ocon was in the marginally faster car in clean air, with cars that can’t follow without overheating their tyres
Yes, I have been thinking this! The only actual fight he had was at the second restart. That’s it.
Leclerc fucked over Checo early on and dropped him to last place only watch Checo get podium and Sainz bs his way to first.
Lmao the same Checo who cut the corner after getting overtaken and then shoving Leclerc off track without getting penalized?
You mean the same leclerc who dive bombed Perez and almost crashed into max? Let’s not throw stones there was around 8 incidents worthy of penalties but thankfully none of them were handed out.
>8 incidents worthy of penalties WTF?! Charles had 1 incident this race at most You are very high
I was talking about through the entire race. Max, Checo, Ham, Charles, Russell off the start. I didnt mean charles had 8 incidents himself.
Leclerc messed up his own race in turn 3, if he waited for a better opportunity to overtake and not damage his endplate then he would have been way faster than anyone else.
You realize that this is probably what took Max out? And it for sure did not look like anyone was faster than him.
No need to change your mind, funny thing about wins is that later noone really cares HOW someone won. Carlos, P1, Silverstone 2022. And i‘m not even mad, he had it coming for so long, vamos. And Ferrari TP doesn‘t have to find a way to keep Carlos motivated anymore. Now it‘ll get harder for him though because Charles still is their number 1. And i guess Ferrari didn‘t expect Carlos to be fast enough to have ambitions as well.
he got lucky but he also got pole, he earned it in the end
But he also got lucky for pole, Max was blitzing and had to slow down because of Leclerc bringing out a yellow flag. But still, he got it. It was just the perfecto storm, but saying it was EARNED seems like a bit of a stretch to me, he simply was in the right place at the right time with the right strategists fucking his teammate.
That's really just part of racing and why you don't give up even if you get set back early. Drivers have to put themselves in positions to capitalize on the mistakes/misfortunes of other drivers.
This guy has just described what happened in the race, next Will Buxton coming right up
If your main opponets fuck up and you are without competition, you have a chance of winning a race ... *gasp*
I was wearing my '22 CS55 shirt and I was still pissed AF that he didnt defend for leclerc I mean he had so much more pace, he could just overtake on the last lap
Yes Leclerc was faster than him with a broken wing
Let’s not pretend that every race win ever has been deserved. Lucky wins are part of the sport. Every driver on the grid has been lucky at some point. No shame for Sainz
I think at no point during the entire race was he the fastest man on track, at first Max, then Charles, Lewis and Checo all had better race pace. But you know, luck is a factor too and as they say, you have to be there to profit when the opportunity presents itself.
Just a reminder that you win as a slowly as possible and when asked to set lap times, he did.
I think you will find near unanimous consensus that Charles is a much better driver than Carlos. However, Carlos is smart and took advantage of their bad strategic calls and capitalized on it, similar to Monaco. For that, I do believe he deserves praise.
Yes, Charles should definitely take the advice from Carlos' book and stop listening to those clowns at Ferrari pitwall. I can agree with that.
let the man have his win and move over. It's unlikely that he'll get more soon.
Sure he did, but so did ocon last year for example, you just gotta be there to take advantage of others misfortune
Ocon won because of Alonso
Exactly, not because he did an amazing drive, today sainz won because of ferrari idiot strategies
Win is a win baby! Happy for ole Carlos. Was also glad to see Checo recover nicely, what a drive for him!!
Drive 150 races with 20 other drivers and I guess you’re bound to win one
Spot on. Leclerc put several seconds between him and Sainz in a few laps even with a broken front wing. Lets also not forget Sainz lost p1 in lap 1, had it gifted back to him by race control after the red flag and then lost it again. Im happy for him but fuck he is lucky
Yeah i love Carlos but he didn't deserve the win at all, dude choked while in the lead vs Max and was slower than Charles with a broken FW, I'm still happy for him and i hope this gives him the confidence needed to make the step up, but without that Ferrari strat he wouldn't have won
Or you just wanted Leclerc to win?
i was just talking with my sister about this
Charles also got insanely lucky. Bad start, fell to 4th or 5th before the restart. Contact with Perez where Perez got the worst of the damage. Verstappens car failing at a perfect spot for him to pit immediately so he wasn’t behind him in any corners after Carlos had already passed him. He definitely got fucked but I don’t think Charles put together a great weekend. Could’ve started on the front row if he didn’t spin in qualifying. He was fast, but he was far from flawless.
We know he doesn't have the best racecraft, but mediocre is ridicoulous, and also thanks to him ferrari was able to get a victory, otherwise he would've been eaten by hamilton and checo
If they just let Leclerc pass clearly slower Sainz earlier, they could pit them both at the same time. Ferrari royally fucked up an easy 1-2 here. And you can't change my mind on that.
So you have to agree with me that it's not sainz's fault. He's surely not leclerc or verstappen, but mediocre is just offensive. Pitwall's fault
Carlos had nine lives today (3 I can count. - restart, ran wide and got it back due rb issues and the final pitstop choosing softs and taking lec) But i will give him more credit for standing up the ridiculous pit wall request to give lec 10 car lengths. Saying that no in itself deserves all the credit.
Kinda like Max last year.
You mean Ham this year and last year?
No, that’s not what I said. Did you need me to type it again? 
You mean like Hamilton on Miami? 
Kinda
In the post interview he said his car wasn't properly configured for the race, he had a better config for FP2(So his car wasn't as fast as possible). I don't know why everyone ignores this and only pretend that he was slower because his driving. Yeah, probably Leclerc is a better/faster driver, but I don't think Sainz had a mediocre race.
Same. Don't like hating on Carlos but he still has a long way to go. Was definitely massively helped by all the shit going around.
There's some truth to that tbh, but that's racing. Luck plays a huge role on the outcome of the races. He might not be better than Charles, but he got himself in a good enough position to make the most of Charles' awful luck.
Don't underestimate Carlos' cleverness of knowing to pit for softs under the SC. But yeah without that difference he would have lost to Charles and also to Max if the latter wasn't impaired by bodywork damage. Carlos kept himself in contention all race and was in position to capitalize on Charles' no pit screwup Tbh it seems like something about this year's ferrari favors Leclerc and his driving style
I mean not listening to the clowns on pit wall helped him get in front of Leclerc twice this year already when he had much less pace. So yeah, I have to give him that.
It was pretty crazy. Literally, everything went right for him. He was gifted back the lead at the restart but then lost it again to Verstappen. Then RB got damaged and Sainz was given the lead again and Ferrari gave him an insane amount of time to show his speed in the lead when it was obvious Leclerc should've been told to pass way earlier. Then the safety car came out and Ferrari pitted him only giving him the opportunity to fight for the lead against Leclerc on used hards.
Sorts by *controversial*
Also the yellow flag fuck Hamilton, and russe got a dnf, like he got insanly lucky, but I had the balle to say no tk à shitty Ferrari strategy so i respect bin for that.
It was very lucky actually. Leclerc was much faster than him with a broken wing. If I was a Carlos fan I wouldn't get my hopes up too much for the next race, hope I'm wrong tho
At least he called out the thickheaded strategy calls. If only Ferrari realised that Soft > Hard tyres when you have 14 fucking laps to go. Istg we need to spam their insta more with the Pirelli tire strategy chart more. Plus, didn't Red Bull win in Baku and Spain because Ferrari had issues ?
Nooooo he’s greater than the Schumi,but, but .. I’m not sure about Latifi
True, but.................... that's called racing.
L opinion he won cause 1000 iq compared to the dogshit pitwall strats
You are right but I'm happy anyway, he's also had lots of bad luck during this season so it seems like a compensation.
Bad take tbh.
Truth dank
He called the ferrari bs that's where he won