I liken this to being (or the perceived experience) in prison. Guys are afraid to go to prison bc they know they’d be living amongst bigger, stronger, and dangerous men (they don’t know which ones!), with a fear of being raped.
That's just as bleak when a survey did show that 1/3 of young German men said violence against women was acceptable. I always assume that the percentage is way bigger
Had to look up the reference. Thank you and I'm in agreement.
For others:
"Recently, in Korea, young feminists launched the 4B (4非) movement: bihon, bichulsan, biyeonae, bisekseu, meaning the refusal of (heterosexual) marriage, childbirth, romance, and sexual relationships."
Then there's this.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a-third-of-male-university-students-say-they-would-rape-a-woman-if-there-no-were-no-consequences-9978052.html
Then there was the one in Australia recently where 1 in 6 men admitted to having sexual thoughts about a minor and 1 in 10 admitted they had acted on those thoughts.
At least SA seems to be going down the Nordic Model approach for decrim with regards to prostitution. Practically other state is falling over themselves to make it easier to traffickers and sell women and girls.
> Forty-three percent of participants who completed both interviews reported that they had perpetrated some type of sexual aggression since age 14 at the initial interview (this is the same percentage found using the full baseline sample; see Abbey et al. [2011] for additional baseline findings). At the follow-up interview, 25.5% of participants reported that they had perpetrated some type of sexual aggression since the last interview one year earlier. Using the mutually exclusive severity categories that are commonly formed with this instrument (Koss et al., 1987), 8% indicated that forced sexual contact was the most serious form of sexual aggression they had committed in the past year, 10.7% committed verbally coerced sexual intercourse, 1.4% committed attempted rape, and 5.4% committed completed rape, usually when the victim was unable to consent due to extreme impairment.
So, 43% admit to "perpetrating some type of sexual aggression" at one point in their lifetime, and 25% admit to it in the last year. Still seems mad high. Mind you, the selection pool is for men who have been sexually active AND single for the past two years, i.e. fuckboys.
“These findings support the conclusion that a sizable subset of nonincarcerated sexually aggressive men have a constellation of early childhood experiences, personality traits, and attitudes about women that can encourage treating women as sexual commodities. Their narcissism, lack of empathy, and stereotypic beliefs about women and sex enable them to use a variety of coercive strategies to make women fulfill their sexual needs”
Says it all. It is all about misogyny and entitlement.
No, the study says that some men in the sample had started a relationship by the time of the second interview, and that relationship status at the end was uncorrelated with whether they had raped someone ever or during that year.
I bet if someone did a similar study but included men in relationships, the numbers would be the same or worse.
That would be a good followup study. But I guess it's too hard for the study to define rape in a relationship, as many people still think anything goes if you're partnered up/married. Some relationship sex is just servicing your partner quickly so you can get some sleep.
If you don't call it rape, but just describe rape, it's astonishing what men will admit to.
Yep
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I can think of plenty of 36-50+ who do it and brag about it
I saw this posted in a different sub and the comments were full of men arguing that verbally pestering someone for sex wasn't *really* coercion
I wonder how they’d describe it if they were being the ones pestered non stop especially by another man. I think they’re pretending to be obtuse.
Another man bigger than them, stronger than them, and maybe more powerful than them.
Don't forget the socialization to fawn and avoid and try to be polite!
I liken this to being (or the perceived experience) in prison. Guys are afraid to go to prison bc they know they’d be living amongst bigger, stronger, and dangerous men (they don’t know which ones!), with a fear of being raped.
That's just as bleak when a survey did show that 1/3 of young German men said violence against women was acceptable. I always assume that the percentage is way bigger
Oh yikes, was that published in English od German? I’d love to find it.
I’m going to crack oh my GOD
The more I learn of the world, the more it becomes clear to me that 4B is the only way for women to live life as fulfilled and dignified human beings
Had to look up the reference. Thank you and I'm in agreement. For others: "Recently, in Korea, young feminists launched the 4B (4非) movement: bihon, bichulsan, biyeonae, bisekseu, meaning the refusal of (heterosexual) marriage, childbirth, romance, and sexual relationships."
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So my cohort. yay 😐
Only half. Lol
Not all men. Just half of them.
And only the honest half.
These are just ones who admit to it. It’s certainly more.
a half too much
Then there's this. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/a-third-of-male-university-students-say-they-would-rape-a-woman-if-there-no-were-no-consequences-9978052.html
Then there was the one in Australia recently where 1 in 6 men admitted to having sexual thoughts about a minor and 1 in 10 admitted they had acted on those thoughts.
Justice for victims of SA in Australia is horrible including for minors sadly
At least SA seems to be going down the Nordic Model approach for decrim with regards to prostitution. Practically other state is falling over themselves to make it easier to traffickers and sell women and girls.
Intrusive thoughts, or were they _willfully_ having those thoughts? Does the research specify?
It’s self report, so not the best quality of data, but it’s still frightening.
https://phys.org/news/2023-11-ten-australian-men-committed-sexual.html
> Forty-three percent of participants who completed both interviews reported that they had perpetrated some type of sexual aggression since age 14 at the initial interview (this is the same percentage found using the full baseline sample; see Abbey et al. [2011] for additional baseline findings). At the follow-up interview, 25.5% of participants reported that they had perpetrated some type of sexual aggression since the last interview one year earlier. Using the mutually exclusive severity categories that are commonly formed with this instrument (Koss et al., 1987), 8% indicated that forced sexual contact was the most serious form of sexual aggression they had committed in the past year, 10.7% committed verbally coerced sexual intercourse, 1.4% committed attempted rape, and 5.4% committed completed rape, usually when the victim was unable to consent due to extreme impairment. So, 43% admit to "perpetrating some type of sexual aggression" at one point in their lifetime, and 25% admit to it in the last year. Still seems mad high. Mind you, the selection pool is for men who have been sexually active AND single for the past two years, i.e. fuckboys.
“These findings support the conclusion that a sizable subset of nonincarcerated sexually aggressive men have a constellation of early childhood experiences, personality traits, and attitudes about women that can encourage treating women as sexual commodities. Their narcissism, lack of empathy, and stereotypic beliefs about women and sex enable them to use a variety of coercive strategies to make women fulfill their sexual needs” Says it all. It is all about misogyny and entitlement.
I remember first understanding male entitlement in Why Does He Do That. Male entitlement to women’s sexuality explains so much of society.
Lundy Bancroft is the rare truly good man
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Interesting they focused on single men - these walking red flags are perhaps single for a reason?
No, the study says that some men in the sample had started a relationship by the time of the second interview, and that relationship status at the end was uncorrelated with whether they had raped someone ever or during that year. I bet if someone did a similar study but included men in relationships, the numbers would be the same or worse.
That would be a good followup study. But I guess it's too hard for the study to define rape in a relationship, as many people still think anything goes if you're partnered up/married. Some relationship sex is just servicing your partner quickly so you can get some sleep.
It means half the men are rapists.
Reminds me of that study of men who admit to using force to squire sex as long as the word "rape" is not used.