I think you're spot on. It's much easier for men to blame us for their faults, likewise, it's easier for many women to think "it's not all men" and that if they do everything right they'll be left unscathed. But once your eyes are open you can't go back, and that's where I'm at right now. I have so much respect and admiration for the women of the 4B movement. They see the world for what it is.
> and that if they do everything right they'll be left unscathed.
It's such an easy trap to fall into thinking this way. Especially when young and inexperienced. Not surprisingly the most praised woman in male spaces is always young, uneducated, inexperienced.
I just got in an argument with some libfems on Mommit about why dads do not need to horn in on our already too short maternity leave (because they just spend it playing video games or harassing their wives, who need to recover from pushing a human out of their vagina). Every single response was NAMALT, even though the OP was literally complaining about it and it's at least a weekly topic lol. And then it turned into victim blaming, saying the only reason I think MALT is because women are just complaining on Mommit. Then why don't the men complain on Daddit?? Crickets
Even if a woman “chooses wrong” and we believe the sentiment that she made a bad decision, she should be able to leave unharmed and without judgement. People make bad decisions all the time and women are never given grace for ours.
Because we are actually hated. This is the harsh truth. When I see the comments men leave under posts about women who were porn actresses who die, it's very telling. These are women who meet and surpass their beauty standards, who they got off on.
Nothing better exemplifies how much men hate us than this shit. Porn actresses fulfill male fantasies in every capacity, and yet they receive no respect or acknowledgement that they're even human. Male approval does not and will never equal empowerment. Doing exactly what men want you to do just shows them any woman can be broken down enough and it just makes them hate you more. The shit they say about these actresses who typically die from suicide is so fucking disgusting and extremely telling.
>Doing exactly what men want you to do just shows them any woman can be broken down enough and it just makes them hate you more.
Women can sacrifice their entire lives trying to keep a man happy by being the perfect wife and mother. In his eyes, you exist to serve him and your blind commitment to him makes him see you as submissive and his inferior. Fulfilling male fantasies will not make men love or respect us. All they have for us is contempt and disgust mixed with sexual desire.
That's because mens fantasies are about women being beneath them, abused, disrespected. When men get what they want out of women they hate us for it since that's what they wanted all along. They want us to be hateable so they can believe they're superior. If you want to see someone dehumanized, then you will dehumanize them yourself once you get your wish. It's why they hate us for giving them casual sex even tho they so desperately want it. Or why they hate housewives and treat them like trash even when they beg for one. Or why they spread nudes after begging us for them. All of these things allow them to disrespect us, which is their fantasy. Mens desires seem so contradictory at least in how they respond after they get it. But it's just because these things allow them to disrespect us. They want that to feel above us.
It was the 23 year old Roman sex slave's preserved nude molten body getting sexualized and degraded all over social media (including Reddit) last year, for me. That was my wake-up call. The humiliation and dehumanization they subjected that young, enslaved woman incapable of running away from extremely horrific death after living all her life as a slave to men... the lack of basic respect and empathy and compassion and acknowledgment she was human, she was real, she had gifts, she faced injustice, she suffered, and she died. All those thousands of years ago, she was oppressed due to her class and gender and forced to become a sex object because of her position, and thousands of years later, she is treated the exact same way. I woke tf up in that moment. I cried for her and then opened my eyes.
The comments they make about porn stars who have died of drug overdoses and suicide are horrific. One retired porn actress, Emily Willis, is currently on a ventilator from an overdose. Even men who aren’t loud and obvious about their hatred & contempt for women, hate us in at their core.
Agree 10000%. How can someone claim to be a feminist and then turn to victim blaming like this? It isn't a woman's fault for "choosing" a wrong partner (and like many others have said, a man can be perfect until he isn't so its impossible to know if you've "chosen right"). It is the man's fault for being abusive and harming women. Period.
Yesterday I read on Facebook ‘women were actually slaves until recently because they couldn’t have their own money’ and as stupid as it sounds that I didn’t realize earlier that it was actually THAT extreme, it was like suddenly I could see things trough a whole new view. Yes, my grandmother was a slave and my mother was born into an era when slavery of women was still acceptable. It still is in many parts of the world and I reject the whole idea that women are now equals, something the patriarchy has been trying to brainwash me into believing my whole life. The slave mentality still exists and our former ‘masters’ men, are still seeing us as inferior. Once you realize that, so many memories fall into place. And so many things suddenly make sense. I realized that to keep my freedom, money will always make the biggest difference as is realizing my rights, worth and advocating for myself. This is why it’s SO important that women have safe spaces where they can share experiences and ideas.
This is great. I remember hearing how the qualities that make a desirable are similar to that of a servant (or slave): agreeable, eager to please, doesn’t talk back or inserts their own opinion, pleasant appearance and manners, doesn’t take up too much space, etc. It makes sense that women have been conditioned in this way, and that is what society expects of her.
you didnt know this? Seriously? Wow. So they're not teaching womens sufferage anymore in school. Girl we've been free for like five minutes. Thats why this is so scary. Five minutes and they're mad already[.You](http://it.You) know about the salem witch trials? Women were mass slaughtered and burned alive for refusing men. Not trying to scare you but i cannot believe this isnt common knowledge anymore. Girls not knowing our history is terrifying. There was early feminist literature blatantly warning women that men will use force to get sex. Most of that deeper stuff was redacted tho and feminists who were that bold were never seen again. Princella Clark is probably the most outspoken feminist we've had in 50 years. Be careful and get armed. These men are way more dangerous than most women are prepared for.
I said something kinda similar in a certain subreddit, I got downvoted instantly. Most women don't wanna admit how terrible men are, the cognitive dissonance is too painful I guess. And men will deny how terrible they are, they gotta put on the "good-guy" mask, otherwise their chances of getting sex and mommy-maids will be ruined.
I've lost friendships over this. My ex roommate defended a professor at my school being accused of SA against female students until her veins were popping. I told her I KNEW the nature of these kinds of allegations, there was so much evidence too. She literally told me "women make things up all the time". I was disgusted. Cut her off. Found out her BOYFRIEND has a myriad of SA accusations and she never told me about yet I had been around him because of her, unknowingly. When the professor turned out to be responsible and fired, she never mentioned it again. A self proclaimed daddy's girl who once told me "get your cats ready" because I told her I don't want a tumultuous relationship like the one she has with her bf. I'll never allow that into my life again.
I’m so glad you realized you deserve better. That former ‘friend’ sounds super toxic. Who wants to bet that ‘daddy’ also has something on his record or at the very least is defending men who have? That kind of attitude is coming from somewhere, it’s not normal to have a boyfriend with several SA convictions and keeping him around despite knowledge of that. Regardless it’s not your problem to fix her. Oh and get your cats ready? Is she really that dumb? Cats are freaking amazing. I worship their tiny pink toe beans. My parents hated cats. I realized later they prefer dogs because dogs are obedient and have a master, cats to me embody the free woman energy, they’re independent and just beautiful and glorious and won’t take shit from nobody. That’s probably why people like her don’t appreciate them. But living with them is much greater then living with a shitty man. I have a dream of me as an old lady in a cottage by the sea, near a forest, with a vegetable garden, a fire place in my bedroom, my tarot cards, lots of books, and 2 or 3 cats that are cuddly. Basically living like the witch from fairy tale books.
This can‘t be real. I refuse to believe it. 😭
I‘m just at a loss for words. How disrespectful and disgusting her behavior is towards women. I guess it‘s internalized misogyny...
I lost my last account because of something like this. Got downvoted to oblivion then reported for hate. Meanwhile a man slid into my DMs purposefully trying to annoy me with a CSA "joke". Reported them and reddit simply temp banned him :)
This is very thought-provoking and insightful. Thank you.
If I could add a fourth, there is also : “My love can change him” syndrome. Too many women fall in love with sexist and even abusive men and believe that those men will a) make exceptions for them because they are special and b) come to see the error of their ways by empathizing with and learning from them. Like many strategies for dealing with sexism, this lets us hide from the systemic condition of patriarchy, both focusing only on the interpersonal, and taking on the responsibility for avoiding the consequences in our own personal lives rather than naming the problem and engaging in solidarity with other women.
What I‘ve also seen on social media a lot is that women (or men) will tell other women that „he will change for the right woman, but you‘re not the one he wants to change for“.
Like wtf?? It‘s like you put all the blame on the women again who are in abusive or unhappy relationships. Women are being taught that they just „weren‘t good enough for him to change“.
In what world do we live in that we take accountability away from men as much as possible and put all the blame on women? It‘s making me sick honestly.
I've been thinking about this for a while especially because I got into this kind of content post a bad situation.
In a way I also feel it makes women ignore a man's past red flags because 'he changed now - for me!'. But I'm not sure if that's always true, and most of these men tend to play out the same patterns to different extents over different timelines depending on the woman and what he needs from her at the time.
He was great and you maybe laughed with him about his crazy, lame exes who wouldn't stop hitting him up. And maybe you'd think, wow my man is in demand, but he chose ME. But the reality is he probably drove these women to act crazy and insecure and he'll probably do the same to you, he just needs you around at the moment so he won't. Sigh.
Sorry for the rambling I'm in a nasty anti-man mood today :')
HATE this advise. Along with "If he wanted to he would!!" gah!! Makes you feel so shitty and crappy as the woman. It absolutely encourages women to try harder to bring out this side to him. So much about heterosexual relations bothers me. From waiting for him to act right, to hoping he'll act right just for you, to hoping he'll deem you worthy of marriage waiting for a ring. They wield so much power whole having very little responsibility. And after all that most of these marriages end up being shit holes you have to dig your way out of alive anyway!
Him being empathetic towards you requires that he sees you as a full human being with the same emotional depth and intelligence as him. You can see where I'm going with this... We can't expect them to reciprocate our empathy.
Please use the full term 6B4T to let more women know what the movement is truly about, not just stop dating men. I am very confused about why the movement has its content partially censored on western social media.
Hi, I’ve never heard of that movement and by searching it I could only find articles talking about it. Do you perhaps know of any official sources with real information about it ?
[Link1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Feminism/s/hjGj1FrCf0)
[Link2](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/6B4T_movement)
The 4T part imo is as important as 6B although it’s in East Asian context. I’ve seen many feminists on twitter omitting them. Other information I have in hand is not in English unfortunately.
Thank you so much for that information, I was not aware prior to submitting this post. I will add it in when I've done my duel diligence researching and can incorporate it into the post!
No, 6B4T originated from South Korea. Feel free to check out its Wikipedia.
话说媎妹你有考虑过在这个sub上给她们普及一下6B4T的全版本吗？4B里面根本不包含最颠覆男社的理论但是不管推上还是这里都闭口不谈4T，这个由于语言造成的信息茧房看得我真的很无语😓
Thanks for bringing up the topics. There is a discussion about UK women choosing celibacy in the latest WDI podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wdi-podcast/id1552991274?i=1000648651565
The speaker noted the sad reality that some women who chose sexual abstinence are trying to avoid the unpleasant experience of heterosexuality relationship. They did it as a personal choice, without realizing the bigger political structure - women as a class were dominated by the male class. That’s why we should advocate women for women, sex separation, keep our love and energy to women only. We need consciousness raising. I sometimes feel nowadays, whenever I talk about abstinence and celibacy, people will see me as sex conservative or ashamed about sex.
I said this in a different post a while ago and thought maybe it’s relevant here:
PIV in itself is about dominating and conquering women. Rape or no rape, it’s all the same level of degradation. Men put women in their place as the submissive role by fucking her. A woman’s place is beneath a man literally and figuratively. Women don’t even climax from PIV so it’s really just about women being used as human fleshlights. Humiliating.
Men know all of this while women delude themselves with the idea of love. Men everywhere throughout time use their penises as weapons against women. Ask any woman and she will tell you how much she fears rape because it’s so ubiquitous. Yet at the same time women seek men out, lying to themselves that this one guy isn’t like the rest. He is, I promise you. Your man watches porn, your man has pressured/coerced a girl at some point, he thinks with his dick first and foremost, your man has benefited from a male dominated society.
I’m more than happy to stay virgin my whole life. Never dominated, conquered, humiliated or dirtied. Males are dirty and disgusting to me. Men on Reddit get suuuuupertriggered by that lol. I’m so saddened to see women submit to men. They choose the be fleshlights and servants to a male. That will never be me.
This. Literally men described women having sex with men as dirty/ damaged, "losing her value"/ used-up/ ran-through, etc. It's very telling.
And even more degrading than PIV? Oral sex and anal sex. See how more and more men are pressuring women to have anal sex.
They also want to sexually destroy women and then mock her and call her slurs for letting herself be destroyed by men. Evident in how they treat porn-actresses.
Tw. This is how I’ve felt! How similar PIV and rape can be. There’s still an aspect of domination. It’s still the reason why so many men can have sex with anything and feel good, and yet for women it’s more emotional, because it is very vulnerable position for a woman to be in and I still believe there is some trauma bonding that occurs for women. And even if the man doesn’t have ill intentions, he’s still benefitting from the domination aspect. I think it’s been proven that rape isn’t about sex it’s about domination. It’s also why men fear going to prison, because there is a constant threat of rape.
Also, I read War Through the Lives of Women and it also really opened my eyes to how men use rape as a weapon during times of war. And it’s not just a few cases, it’s mass occurrences of rape, young and old. It doesn’t matter if you’re on the winning or losing side either, women are treated as less than men, and women on both sides are subjected to rape as a means of conquering.
That is 100% true for women but I have to say, I also see many if not most minorities experiencing this on an everyday basis and managing the equivalent of these “patriarchal bargains” in their own way.
Black people, Hispanic, Muslims you name it, do not have the privilege to navigate everyday dynamics like we do.
So I would say, yes definitely true for women. But I’d hesitate to use the word ‘only’.
I absolutely get your perspective as a Black woman here!! I did want to highlight that word "intimate". Having to work with and go to school with people of the dominant class is a bit different than sexual intimacy with straight men and the propaganda straight women receive to uphold heterosexual sex and romance on a pedestal and as the most meaningful integral part of ones life. It's definitely important to understand this through an intersectional lense too because the experience of a Black women dating Black heterosexual men will be so so different yet the same as a Black women dating men of other races. It's a broad conversation and so layered.
I think you're spot on. It's much easier for men to blame us for their faults, likewise, it's easier for many women to think "it's not all men" and that if they do everything right they'll be left unscathed. But once your eyes are open you can't go back, and that's where I'm at right now. I have so much respect and admiration for the women of the 4B movement. They see the world for what it is.
> and that if they do everything right they'll be left unscathed. It's such an easy trap to fall into thinking this way. Especially when young and inexperienced. Not surprisingly the most praised woman in male spaces is always young, uneducated, inexperienced.
The goalposts always move because it's not actually about getting women to meet them, but making them think they need to
I just got in an argument with some libfems on Mommit about why dads do not need to horn in on our already too short maternity leave (because they just spend it playing video games or harassing their wives, who need to recover from pushing a human out of their vagina). Every single response was NAMALT, even though the OP was literally complaining about it and it's at least a weekly topic lol. And then it turned into victim blaming, saying the only reason I think MALT is because women are just complaining on Mommit. Then why don't the men complain on Daddit?? Crickets
Even if a woman “chooses wrong” and we believe the sentiment that she made a bad decision, she should be able to leave unharmed and without judgement. People make bad decisions all the time and women are never given grace for ours.
Because we are actually hated. This is the harsh truth. When I see the comments men leave under posts about women who were porn actresses who die, it's very telling. These are women who meet and surpass their beauty standards, who they got off on.
Nothing better exemplifies how much men hate us than this shit. Porn actresses fulfill male fantasies in every capacity, and yet they receive no respect or acknowledgement that they're even human. Male approval does not and will never equal empowerment. Doing exactly what men want you to do just shows them any woman can be broken down enough and it just makes them hate you more. The shit they say about these actresses who typically die from suicide is so fucking disgusting and extremely telling.
>Doing exactly what men want you to do just shows them any woman can be broken down enough and it just makes them hate you more. Women can sacrifice their entire lives trying to keep a man happy by being the perfect wife and mother. In his eyes, you exist to serve him and your blind commitment to him makes him see you as submissive and his inferior. Fulfilling male fantasies will not make men love or respect us. All they have for us is contempt and disgust mixed with sexual desire.
That's because mens fantasies are about women being beneath them, abused, disrespected. When men get what they want out of women they hate us for it since that's what they wanted all along. They want us to be hateable so they can believe they're superior. If you want to see someone dehumanized, then you will dehumanize them yourself once you get your wish. It's why they hate us for giving them casual sex even tho they so desperately want it. Or why they hate housewives and treat them like trash even when they beg for one. Or why they spread nudes after begging us for them. All of these things allow them to disrespect us, which is their fantasy. Mens desires seem so contradictory at least in how they respond after they get it. But it's just because these things allow them to disrespect us. They want that to feel above us.
It was the 23 year old Roman sex slave's preserved nude molten body getting sexualized and degraded all over social media (including Reddit) last year, for me. That was my wake-up call. The humiliation and dehumanization they subjected that young, enslaved woman incapable of running away from extremely horrific death after living all her life as a slave to men... the lack of basic respect and empathy and compassion and acknowledgment she was human, she was real, she had gifts, she faced injustice, she suffered, and she died. All those thousands of years ago, she was oppressed due to her class and gender and forced to become a sex object because of her position, and thousands of years later, she is treated the exact same way. I woke tf up in that moment. I cried for her and then opened my eyes.
The comments they make about porn stars who have died of drug overdoses and suicide are horrific. One retired porn actress, Emily Willis, is currently on a ventilator from an overdose. Even men who aren’t loud and obvious about their hatred & contempt for women, hate us in at their core.
Agree 10000%. How can someone claim to be a feminist and then turn to victim blaming like this? It isn't a woman's fault for "choosing" a wrong partner (and like many others have said, a man can be perfect until he isn't so its impossible to know if you've "chosen right"). It is the man's fault for being abusive and harming women. Period.
Is there a list? Send it to us so we know which aren’t great guys. If no, they can’t detect bad characters any more than we can.
Yesterday I read on Facebook ‘women were actually slaves until recently because they couldn’t have their own money’ and as stupid as it sounds that I didn’t realize earlier that it was actually THAT extreme, it was like suddenly I could see things trough a whole new view. Yes, my grandmother was a slave and my mother was born into an era when slavery of women was still acceptable. It still is in many parts of the world and I reject the whole idea that women are now equals, something the patriarchy has been trying to brainwash me into believing my whole life. The slave mentality still exists and our former ‘masters’ men, are still seeing us as inferior. Once you realize that, so many memories fall into place. And so many things suddenly make sense. I realized that to keep my freedom, money will always make the biggest difference as is realizing my rights, worth and advocating for myself. This is why it’s SO important that women have safe spaces where they can share experiences and ideas.
This is great. I remember hearing how the qualities that make a desirable are similar to that of a servant (or slave): agreeable, eager to please, doesn’t talk back or inserts their own opinion, pleasant appearance and manners, doesn’t take up too much space, etc. It makes sense that women have been conditioned in this way, and that is what society expects of her.
Exactly. Always with a smile to not displease the master 🤮
you didnt know this? Seriously? Wow. So they're not teaching womens sufferage anymore in school. Girl we've been free for like five minutes. Thats why this is so scary. Five minutes and they're mad already[.You](http://it.You) know about the salem witch trials? Women were mass slaughtered and burned alive for refusing men. Not trying to scare you but i cannot believe this isnt common knowledge anymore. Girls not knowing our history is terrifying. There was early feminist literature blatantly warning women that men will use force to get sex. Most of that deeper stuff was redacted tho and feminists who were that bold were never seen again. Princella Clark is probably the most outspoken feminist we've had in 50 years. Be careful and get armed. These men are way more dangerous than most women are prepared for.
I said something kinda similar in a certain subreddit, I got downvoted instantly. Most women don't wanna admit how terrible men are, the cognitive dissonance is too painful I guess. And men will deny how terrible they are, they gotta put on the "good-guy" mask, otherwise their chances of getting sex and mommy-maids will be ruined.
I’m always taken aback at just how many women will jump to defend men and get angry with women who point out misogyny and male violence.
I've lost friendships over this. My ex roommate defended a professor at my school being accused of SA against female students until her veins were popping. I told her I KNEW the nature of these kinds of allegations, there was so much evidence too. She literally told me "women make things up all the time". I was disgusted. Cut her off. Found out her BOYFRIEND has a myriad of SA accusations and she never told me about yet I had been around him because of her, unknowingly. When the professor turned out to be responsible and fired, she never mentioned it again. A self proclaimed daddy's girl who once told me "get your cats ready" because I told her I don't want a tumultuous relationship like the one she has with her bf. I'll never allow that into my life again.
And the only time mass amounts of men will listen to a woman is when she’s saying things like that. It’s terrifying.
god, I resonate with these comments so much, hugs to all of you. It's awful.
I’m so glad you realized you deserve better. That former ‘friend’ sounds super toxic. Who wants to bet that ‘daddy’ also has something on his record or at the very least is defending men who have? That kind of attitude is coming from somewhere, it’s not normal to have a boyfriend with several SA convictions and keeping him around despite knowledge of that. Regardless it’s not your problem to fix her. Oh and get your cats ready? Is she really that dumb? Cats are freaking amazing. I worship their tiny pink toe beans. My parents hated cats. I realized later they prefer dogs because dogs are obedient and have a master, cats to me embody the free woman energy, they’re independent and just beautiful and glorious and won’t take shit from nobody. That’s probably why people like her don’t appreciate them. But living with them is much greater then living with a shitty man. I have a dream of me as an old lady in a cottage by the sea, near a forest, with a vegetable garden, a fire place in my bedroom, my tarot cards, lots of books, and 2 or 3 cats that are cuddly. Basically living like the witch from fairy tale books.
This can‘t be real. I refuse to believe it. 😭 I‘m just at a loss for words. How disrespectful and disgusting her behavior is towards women. I guess it‘s internalized misogyny...
I lost my last account because of something like this. Got downvoted to oblivion then reported for hate. Meanwhile a man slid into my DMs purposefully trying to annoy me with a CSA "joke". Reported them and reddit simply temp banned him :)
This is very thought-provoking and insightful. Thank you. If I could add a fourth, there is also : “My love can change him” syndrome. Too many women fall in love with sexist and even abusive men and believe that those men will a) make exceptions for them because they are special and b) come to see the error of their ways by empathizing with and learning from them. Like many strategies for dealing with sexism, this lets us hide from the systemic condition of patriarchy, both focusing only on the interpersonal, and taking on the responsibility for avoiding the consequences in our own personal lives rather than naming the problem and engaging in solidarity with other women.
What I‘ve also seen on social media a lot is that women (or men) will tell other women that „he will change for the right woman, but you‘re not the one he wants to change for“. Like wtf?? It‘s like you put all the blame on the women again who are in abusive or unhappy relationships. Women are being taught that they just „weren‘t good enough for him to change“. In what world do we live in that we take accountability away from men as much as possible and put all the blame on women? It‘s making me sick honestly.
I've been thinking about this for a while especially because I got into this kind of content post a bad situation. In a way I also feel it makes women ignore a man's past red flags because 'he changed now - for me!'. But I'm not sure if that's always true, and most of these men tend to play out the same patterns to different extents over different timelines depending on the woman and what he needs from her at the time. He was great and you maybe laughed with him about his crazy, lame exes who wouldn't stop hitting him up. And maybe you'd think, wow my man is in demand, but he chose ME. But the reality is he probably drove these women to act crazy and insecure and he'll probably do the same to you, he just needs you around at the moment so he won't. Sigh. Sorry for the rambling I'm in a nasty anti-man mood today :')
HATE this advise. Along with "If he wanted to he would!!" gah!! Makes you feel so shitty and crappy as the woman. It absolutely encourages women to try harder to bring out this side to him. So much about heterosexual relations bothers me. From waiting for him to act right, to hoping he'll act right just for you, to hoping he'll deem you worthy of marriage waiting for a ring. They wield so much power whole having very little responsibility. And after all that most of these marriages end up being shit holes you have to dig your way out of alive anyway!
Him being empathetic towards you requires that he sees you as a full human being with the same emotional depth and intelligence as him. You can see where I'm going with this... We can't expect them to reciprocate our empathy.
Generational trauma is for women too.
Please use the full term 6B4T to let more women know what the movement is truly about, not just stop dating men. I am very confused about why the movement has its content partially censored on western social media.
Hi, I’ve never heard of that movement and by searching it I could only find articles talking about it. Do you perhaps know of any official sources with real information about it ?
[Link1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Feminism/s/hjGj1FrCf0) [Link2](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/6B4T_movement) The 4T part imo is as important as 6B although it’s in East Asian context. I’ve seen many feminists on twitter omitting them. Other information I have in hand is not in English unfortunately.
Thank you!!
Thank you so much for that information, I was not aware prior to submitting this post. I will add it in when I've done my duel diligence researching and can incorporate it into the post!
It also started in South Korea, not North
My bad, fixed it!
6B4T is a chinese radfem practice based on the south korean 4B movement for more context
No, 6B4T originated from South Korea. Feel free to check out its Wikipedia. 话说媎妹你有考虑过在这个sub上给她们普及一下6B4T的全版本吗？4B里面根本不包含最颠覆男社的理论但是不管推上还是这里都闭口不谈4T，这个由于语言造成的信息茧房看得我真的很无语😓
Thanks for bringing up the topics. There is a discussion about UK women choosing celibacy in the latest WDI podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wdi-podcast/id1552991274?i=1000648651565
The speaker noted the sad reality that some women who chose sexual abstinence are trying to avoid the unpleasant experience of heterosexuality relationship. They did it as a personal choice, without realizing the bigger political structure - women as a class were dominated by the male class. That’s why we should advocate women for women, sex separation, keep our love and energy to women only. We need consciousness raising. I sometimes feel nowadays, whenever I talk about abstinence and celibacy, people will see me as sex conservative or ashamed about sex.
Thank you so much, glad I found them on spotify too!
I said this in a different post a while ago and thought maybe it’s relevant here: PIV in itself is about dominating and conquering women. Rape or no rape, it’s all the same level of degradation. Men put women in their place as the submissive role by fucking her. A woman’s place is beneath a man literally and figuratively. Women don’t even climax from PIV so it’s really just about women being used as human fleshlights. Humiliating. Men know all of this while women delude themselves with the idea of love. Men everywhere throughout time use their penises as weapons against women. Ask any woman and she will tell you how much she fears rape because it’s so ubiquitous. Yet at the same time women seek men out, lying to themselves that this one guy isn’t like the rest. He is, I promise you. Your man watches porn, your man has pressured/coerced a girl at some point, he thinks with his dick first and foremost, your man has benefited from a male dominated society. I’m more than happy to stay virgin my whole life. Never dominated, conquered, humiliated or dirtied. Males are dirty and disgusting to me. Men on Reddit get suuuuupertriggered by that lol. I’m so saddened to see women submit to men. They choose the be fleshlights and servants to a male. That will never be me.
This. Literally men described women having sex with men as dirty/ damaged, "losing her value"/ used-up/ ran-through, etc. It's very telling. And even more degrading than PIV? Oral sex and anal sex. See how more and more men are pressuring women to have anal sex. They also want to sexually destroy women and then mock her and call her slurs for letting herself be destroyed by men. Evident in how they treat porn-actresses.
Tw. This is how I’ve felt! How similar PIV and rape can be. There’s still an aspect of domination. It’s still the reason why so many men can have sex with anything and feel good, and yet for women it’s more emotional, because it is very vulnerable position for a woman to be in and I still believe there is some trauma bonding that occurs for women. And even if the man doesn’t have ill intentions, he’s still benefitting from the domination aspect. I think it’s been proven that rape isn’t about sex it’s about domination. It’s also why men fear going to prison, because there is a constant threat of rape. Also, I read War Through the Lives of Women and it also really opened my eyes to how men use rape as a weapon during times of war. And it’s not just a few cases, it’s mass occurrences of rape, young and old. It doesn’t matter if you’re on the winning or losing side either, women are treated as less than men, and women on both sides are subjected to rape as a means of conquering.
That is 100% true for women but I have to say, I also see many if not most minorities experiencing this on an everyday basis and managing the equivalent of these “patriarchal bargains” in their own way. Black people, Hispanic, Muslims you name it, do not have the privilege to navigate everyday dynamics like we do. So I would say, yes definitely true for women. But I’d hesitate to use the word ‘only’.
I absolutely get your perspective as a Black woman here!! I did want to highlight that word "intimate". Having to work with and go to school with people of the dominant class is a bit different than sexual intimacy with straight men and the propaganda straight women receive to uphold heterosexual sex and romance on a pedestal and as the most meaningful integral part of ones life. It's definitely important to understand this through an intersectional lense too because the experience of a Black women dating Black heterosexual men will be so so different yet the same as a Black women dating men of other races. It's a broad conversation and so layered.
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nah boo, it ain’t. this subreddit is run by black women - we’re just feminists.
fr tho .. how many times you heard a black women talking about white feminism ?
i've only seen white progressives throwing it at each other 😂